I air dry my prints in screens. But I also find slow drying is best if you want your prints flat. If I dry my FB prints too fast, it curls more. I have prints that are many years old and they're still not perfectly flat. But I sure love the look of FB paper over RC paper.
Aziel, there are a lot of fiber base types of paper in finish, color, and textures, and I went thru the same issues you have been having, I think by the end of the 6th day the RC coated paper will let you see the light when it comes to regular printing with consistent results. And on the 7th day, God rested.
Hi Azriel. I’ve never used that Arista developer, but I do use Ilford Warmtone developer. My understanding is that you’re unlikely to see much if any warm tones in your print unless you also use Warmtone paper. I’ve tried Warmtone dev with Ilford MG classic FB paper and I didn’t see much difference to normal Ilford dev, but it’s quite noticeable with Warmtone paper. The image starts to appear after 15-20 seconds normally.
Thank you Mike. I should have looked at the comments before looking at the video that was mostly about drying prints. I was about to order some of this very developer in the hopes of getting warm prints from Ilford FB papers, but now I know it won't work, they would have to be toned. Really appreciate your knowledge on this, I'll delete it from my Freestyle order now.
Try Ilford warm tone paper and warm tone developer i get almost a chocolate color To get flat fiber based prints I ended up taping down edges of paper onto a heavy board and letting them dry overnight nothing on top , works great Nice to see people in the darkroom still.
An Engineer's method for Print Exposure: The Zone Zero method The basic premise is that you want the minimum exposure for maximum black (Zone Zero). Any further exposure just shoves more zones into maximum black, and any less exposure will fail to produce a true/maximum black. So where is maximum black on your negative? In the unexposed margins around the frame. This of course will change not only from roll to roll (unless you're extremely consistent with film and development), but height of the enlarger (thanks to the inverse square law). I thought of this back in the early '90s, and have used it consistently and successfully for well over a decade, until I went digital. As for print flatness - welcome to the world of fiber based prints. This and water consumption in the wash phase made RC papers as popular as they became, and left fiber based prints to the artists. I miss my Agfa Brovira, but ended up printing most of my prints on Ilford Multigrade RC. My 23C sits unused but ready to go, with a trash bag covering it to prevent dust. Great enlarger IMHO. At that level, the enlarger lens becomes more important. I hope my Zone Zero method helps you or your subscribers. It took a lot of the guess work out of evaluating test strips the way you have. Like you, I never saw much in the way of difference in the tone of the paper with the developers I tried, and Dektol developed prints much faster than what you're experiencing here - 11 minutes and still developing? Gadzooks! Dektol is more than twice as fast.
I just realised I am watching episode 3, because episode 2 is showing on the recommendation bar, but definitely isn't showing on my subscriptions feed.
I just got into 4x5 pinhole, direct positive paper... man I forgot how curly FB paper gets when it dries. Overnight taco! I don’t know realistically what I can do besides leaving them under a heavy book or something. As long as they can be flattened enough to scan I guess it’s not the end of the world, though I would have liked the photos to look nice on their own…
Most warm tone developers don't really have an impact one normal paper. The difference you got is the best it gets with normal paper. Warm tone developer is made for warm tone paper, then you get the warm tone you talked about
I think that would help. Cold temps, cold prints...... warm temps, warm prints. It works w/ Dektol, wait till the developer is almost exhausted and up the temps, that will give you a warmish print. Takes longer to develop though.
Saw the heading and thought, fibre? Good luck with that. The only way I could get mine flat, was to glue them to cardboard, after they were "reasonably flat", still flat (and glued). (50cm * 50cm) I am using RC now, I gave up on fibre paper.
Sorry. Too much yakkity yak and not enough snap. I had to bail out because I was becoming as depressed as you. I would have dumped that developer after the first test print and gone back to Dektol. Forget toned images. Real photographs are black and white. If using Ilford chemistry paper one might consider using Ilford developer that matches the chemistry of the paper.
Did you know that when Ilford tests their own product they do it against Kodak chemistry? Don't take my work for it, read The Film Developers Cookbook. Only thing depressing here is your overconfidence.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 84 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องศึก vs เมืองไทย"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3kuzsAIDf1c/mqdefault.jpg)
30 seconds in a dry mount press will perfectly flatten a fiber print.
I air dry my prints in screens. But I also find slow drying is best if you want your prints flat. If I dry my FB prints too fast, it curls more. I have prints that are many years old and they're still not perfectly flat. But I sure love the look of FB paper over RC paper.
Aziel, there are a lot of fiber base types of paper in finish, color, and textures, and I went thru the same issues you have been having, I think by the end of the 6th day the RC coated paper will let you see the light when it comes to regular printing with consistent results. And on the 7th day, God rested.
Hi Azriel!
Been really enjoying your channel for some years now. Keep it up!
Chris
Thanks so much :)
Hi Azriel. I’ve never used that Arista developer, but I do use Ilford Warmtone developer. My understanding is that you’re unlikely to see much if any warm tones in your print unless you also use Warmtone paper. I’ve tried Warmtone dev with Ilford MG classic FB paper and I didn’t see much difference to normal Ilford dev, but it’s quite noticeable with Warmtone paper. The image starts to appear after 15-20 seconds normally.
Thanks for the advice!
Thank you Mike. I should have looked at the comments before looking at the video that was mostly about drying prints. I was about to order some of this very developer in the hopes of getting warm prints from Ilford FB papers, but now I know it won't work, they would have to be toned. Really appreciate your knowledge on this, I'll delete it from my Freestyle order now.
No probs.
Try Ilford warm tone paper and warm tone developer i get almost a chocolate color To get flat fiber based prints I ended up taping down edges of paper onto a heavy board and letting them dry overnight nothing on top , works great Nice to see people in the darkroom still.
Thanks for the tip!
An Engineer's method for Print Exposure: The Zone Zero method
The basic premise is that you want the minimum exposure for maximum black (Zone Zero). Any further exposure just shoves more zones into maximum black, and any less exposure will fail to produce a true/maximum black. So where is maximum black on your negative? In the unexposed margins around the frame. This of course will change not only from roll to roll (unless you're extremely consistent with film and development), but height of the enlarger (thanks to the inverse square law).
I thought of this back in the early '90s, and have used it consistently and successfully for well over a decade, until I went digital.
As for print flatness - welcome to the world of fiber based prints. This and water consumption in the wash phase made RC papers as popular as they became, and left fiber based prints to the artists. I miss my Agfa Brovira, but ended up printing most of my prints on Ilford Multigrade RC. My 23C sits unused but ready to go, with a trash bag covering it to prevent dust. Great enlarger IMHO. At that level, the enlarger lens becomes more important.
I hope my Zone Zero method helps you or your subscribers. It took a lot of the guess work out of evaluating test strips the way you have. Like you, I never saw much in the way of difference in the tone of the paper with the developers I tried, and Dektol developed prints much faster than what you're experiencing here - 11 minutes and still developing? Gadzooks! Dektol is more than twice as fast.
Thanks for this, I may try it sometime!
Voice activated lights vs possibly 70's timer is kinda glorious :-)
lol, it's a bit odd eh?
I just realised I am watching episode 3, because episode 2 is showing on the recommendation bar, but definitely isn't showing on my subscriptions feed.
weird
I just got into 4x5 pinhole, direct positive paper... man I forgot how curly FB paper gets when it dries. Overnight taco! I don’t know realistically what I can do besides leaving them under a heavy book or something. As long as they can be flattened enough to scan I guess it’s not the end of the world, though I would have liked the photos to look nice on their own…
overnight taco, lol
I think the flaws make it a one off, there's still something worth it there
Most warm tone developers don't really have an impact one normal paper. The difference you got is the best it gets with normal paper. Warm tone developer is made for warm tone paper, then you get the warm tone you talked about
Thanks Edler, I must have been mistaken when I read "works with my fibre and RC Papers"
@@AzrielKnight I mean it works but it doesn't have the warm tone effect
As for me, warm tone developers, especially diluted, works best when they're, uhm, warm. I mean, really warm, like 30°C
Interesting. I have some of this stuff left, maybe I'll dry that.
I think that would help. Cold temps, cold prints...... warm temps, warm prints. It works w/ Dektol, wait till the developer is almost exhausted and up the temps, that will give you a warmish print. Takes longer to develop though.
Saw the heading and thought, fibre? Good luck with that.
The only way I could get mine flat, was to glue them to cardboard, after they were "reasonably flat", still flat (and glued). (50cm * 50cm)
I am using RC now, I gave up on fibre paper.
I'm getting better at it!
Sorry. Too much yakkity yak and not enough snap. I had to bail out because I was becoming as depressed as you.
I would have dumped that developer after the first test print and gone back to Dektol. Forget toned images. Real photographs are black and white.
If using Ilford chemistry paper one might consider using Ilford developer that matches the chemistry of the paper.
Did you know that when Ilford tests their own product they do it against Kodak chemistry? Don't take my work for it, read The Film Developers Cookbook. Only thing depressing here is your overconfidence.