When I started doing my own photo processing around 1958, Kodak sold a "starter kit" called a Tri-Chem Pack, which included an MQ developer which could be used for film and paper, including a stop bath and fixer. The concept was akin to the Ilford Simplicity package offered today. I think the developer was something like D-72 (Dektol), diluted for film use. I suspect that overall quality of that developer was fairly poor, but since the standard then was contact prints or small enlargements, often from medium format film, such considerations were not overriding.
Very interesting, Randall. Thank you for sharing that. I can't remember those kits in the 60s. I think I was too much into Rodinal and later Definol. About twenty years ago I reached out to an ex-chemist from Johnsons of Hendon and asked if he could share the old Definol formula but he either wouldn't or didn't know it.
This is a great solution for people who want to just have 1 developer for simplicity and to reduce waste from expired chemicals. I’m hooked on Ansco 130 from photographer’s formulary for paper right now - I can use the stock solution for weeks - maybe even months (haven’t tried yet) - which I love.
Hi John. Reporting back on my adventures with 510-Pyro (as requested). 1. The first roll of film was 120 Fomapan 200. I developed it as you suggested and, what do know, no grain. Even at 400%, grain is hardly discernible. It just blends in. I used my Bronica SQ Ai and a 65mm lens. Needless to say, I am very happy with the results. 2. I wanted to go to a local fair and shoot some film during the late afternoon and early evening. The weather was bland and overcast, with a strong possibility of rain. I found a time on the Massive Dev chart for Kentmere 400 exposed at ISO1600. (25 mins at 20 deg C. I turned the tank for the first minute and then three turns at 7 min, 14 min and 21 min). It was worth a try. I shot this on my Olympus OM 2n - a new camera that I wanted to try out (although I already have an OM 2 and some lenses). Of course there was grain, but not as much as I thought there might be - it was much more pronounced in the dark areas. Distinctions between bright and dark areas were good, and sharp at the edges, but mid tones were muddy and not particularly sharp. I don't think I'll be trying that again. Thank you for your help and for your excellent videos. Keep them coming.
Ha-ha. I love using the Olympus cameras. My two (the OM 2 and OM 2n) are staying firmly with me. I ran a roll of Fomapan through my Canon EOS 5 yesterday. (I can hear the purists saying that I shouldn't be using such a camera) so that I can compare my previous results with those from a camera with a modern lens. I used the 24mm - 70mm Mk ii from my Canon 5D Mk IV. I'll develop the film today.
That makes two happy people. The great thing is that you can pick up an OM 2n and (most Olympus) lenses quite cheaply. Very good value in today's market place.
The *very first roll* of film I developed without supervision (1970, age 10) was in Dektol. As D-72, it's been a "universal" developer since its introduction in the 1930s. Mix your own (metol, hydroquinone, sodium sulfite, and sodium carbonate) or buy it prepackaged dry. Dilute 1+1, 1+2, or 1+3 for prints, 1+9 for film; expect results similar to Rodinal (crisp, sharp grain).
i've had a bottle of pre-diluted PQ universal at 1+35 sitting for a while and i just developed a small test strip and it worked just fine. I'm gonna put the developer back in the bottle for reuse since it shouldn't have affected it too badly with just a strip of 5 photos..
Ow do John! I've used this formula a few times for processing film but not for paper. I've always used D163 (home made version) for my prints. Next time I mix some PQ Uni I'll give it a bash. Many thanks for a great illustration.
This is great John, thanks. I just discovered a developer which does the same, develop film and paper. But the great thing of it, is that it is awesome to reverse b&w paper and film as well. I shot some negative paper in my pinholes and I developed them with it (a process with bleach and a bath in potassium metabisulfite) and I obtained some lovely positive photos on paper directly out of the camera. I just love it. So I was wondering if a similar process would work with this as well? Here’s, Andrea
Thanks for another great video, just when I was ready to start again you give me a different path to choose. I have done B&W darkroom for some time, but, am getting back into it after resurrecting equipment that's been packed away in the shed. Your videos have really been a big help, dispelling some things I thought I knew and confirming others. In this video you use 1:29 dilution, but your website says 1:19, which is correct?
Thanks, Mike, for pointing out the discrepancy. I do like the my website and videos to reflect each other, even as I adjust my process over the years. On the website I show 1+19 which works well but gives short development times. In the video I used 1+29 to give me the longer development time of 10 minutes, which I like because it's less prone to mistakes. I'll add the dilution to the website. Again, thank you and the best of luck with your darkroom resurrection. I'm sure you'll get great pleasure from making your prints.
Evening John. Great prints!! After using the mix for developing the prints, do you keep the dev that was used in the tray for another days? as i do with my Ilford Multigrade print developer.
Hi John, this does sound very interesting and a huge plus of it saves cash and works for both film and paper. I've been dabbling with Thornton's 2 Bath that I purchase ready to mix from local camera store but wondered if you qould recommend an online reseller for the chemistry? Thanks in advance and love the videos
With Thornton's 2-bath you could probably purchase the chemicals on eBay. If you have trouble getting metaborate use borax as your bath B (10g to a litre water). Change bath B after 5 films.
Thanks for the cooking lesson John :) This developer is also known as Ilford ID-62. Strangely enough, it's not in Steve Anchell's Darkroom Cookbook What's the shelf life of this stuff ?
I think it will be quite reasonable. Certainly, when made as a working solution I've been using it for paper for three days, popping it in a bottle each night.
I am impressed with the results. Does that mean I have to go shopping again? It's starting to be like my camera's... I don't know which to pick... Thanks for the video! Cheers!
Ha! That's too funny! I know what you mean. So many choices but it's fun to see what's out there and how they permit. I had to stop buying lenses a few years ago because I wanted them all. Thanks for your fun comment, Christopher!
HI John. I really like your videos and will buy that book! And your results for this developer are super. One question and comment. As I was writing my notes on your video, I believe you said to for paper development to add 150 mL of the PQ Universal to 1000 mL of water - did you meant to make 1000 mL working solution (which seems customary) or did I not hear your instructions correctly? I know the difference in concentration of the developer would be pretty small but I am just trying to be exact in my notes. [Edit: so I re-watched and I can see you did add water until there is a total of 1 L ] Secondly, I checked the molar masses and it seems there is 17.0% difference between the anhydrous and monohydrate versions of sodium carbonate. That is, if you use the monohydrate version of sodium carbonate, you should use 35.1g instead of 30g of the anhydrous sodium carbonate. At least here in the states, the common supplier of washing soda is Arm & Hammer and they state in their MSDS that it is 88% pure sodium carbonate, which implies that it is a mixture of anhydrous and monohydrate. It looks like you had some from a chemical supplier so you must be using the anhydrous form. I just read in your reply to another viewer to add 25% more for the monohydrate. I know with small differences in these developer recipes it is just as important to be consistent with your measurements as it is to be accurate so I hope you take no offense. Again, I really enjoy what you are doing!
I hope you can answer this for me being new to home developing. How long will the made developer last for and how many prints should I be able able to get with that 1 liter bottle. Thank you so much.
I have not tested the life of the developer but, looking at the formula, I would expect it to last at least a few months if looked after (see my earlier videos about lighter gas). A 1 ltr bottle of concentrate, diluted to working solution, should develop many many prints, similar to any other print developer.
I made this up and tried it for Films ; I found using 'Clip Tests' for AGFA APX 100 i got only 50 ASA and had to give 15 mins. For outdated EFKE KB40 I got 40 ASA and had to use 10 mins -- I bet MY times for FP4+ will be much longer than yours!
I use regular water here but water from the tap varies from place to place. I'm very lucky in north Scotland. If you doubt your water quality then use distilled. If you're not sure try your tap water first and see how it works. I bet many places will be just fine. May I ask where you are?
I'm struggling to find any information on developing times for film & paper with this sort of developer.. could you steer me in the right direction or suggest a developer with comparable development times? I mostly shoot tri-x400 or fomapan 400 and use ilford RC papers.
The paper I cover in the video. 150ml made to 1 Ltr W/W. 2 minutes (or use factorial if you've read my book). For film, try the 10 minutes and increase 20% if the contrast is too low, reduce 20% if too high. Go for it! This is the craft.
I like the idea of a one-stop developer. Have you tried to purchase hydroquinone in the U.K? A photographic supplier wants £16 for 50g! I cannot find a supplier on the internet. Is there a substitute that can be used in place of it?
In the past, I used a lot of PQ Universal (Ilford pre-made) for paper only and really liked it. Honestly, I didn't know that the formula was public domain, thanks for that! If all I have on hand is the monohydrate version of Sodium Carbonate, what would be the multiplier to achieve equivalent weight?
you totally convinced me! I'm totally down for simplicity and reliability, and using only one developer for the whole thing is very convenient.
Great!!
When I started doing my own photo processing around 1958, Kodak sold a "starter kit" called a Tri-Chem Pack, which included an MQ developer which could be used for film and paper, including a stop bath and fixer. The concept was akin to the Ilford Simplicity package offered today. I think the developer was something like D-72 (Dektol), diluted for film use. I suspect that overall quality of that developer was fairly poor, but since the standard then was contact prints or small enlargements, often from medium format film, such considerations were not overriding.
Very interesting, Randall. Thank you for sharing that. I can't remember those kits in the 60s. I think I was too much into Rodinal and later Definol. About twenty years ago I reached out to an ex-chemist from Johnsons of Hendon and asked if he could share the old Definol formula but he either wouldn't or didn't know it.
This is a great solution for people who want to just have 1 developer for simplicity and to reduce waste from expired chemicals.
I’m hooked on Ansco 130 from photographer’s formulary for paper right now - I can use the stock solution for weeks - maybe even months (haven’t tried yet) - which I love.
Ansco 130 will also do a nice job developing film.
@@PictorialPlanet Interesting - I haven’t tried that. Will have to give it a go.
Hi John. Reporting back on my adventures with 510-Pyro (as requested).
1. The first roll of film was 120 Fomapan 200. I developed it as you suggested and, what do know, no grain. Even at 400%, grain is hardly discernible. It just blends in. I used my Bronica SQ Ai and a 65mm lens. Needless to say, I am very happy with the results.
2. I wanted to go to a local fair and shoot some film during the late afternoon and early evening. The weather was bland and overcast, with a strong possibility of rain. I found a time on the Massive Dev chart for Kentmere 400 exposed at ISO1600. (25 mins at 20 deg C. I turned the tank for the first minute and then three turns at 7 min, 14 min and 21 min). It was worth a try. I shot this on my Olympus OM 2n - a new camera that I wanted to try out (although I already have an OM 2 and some lenses). Of course there was grain, but not as much as I thought there might be - it was much more pronounced in the dark areas. Distinctions between bright and dark areas were good, and sharp at the edges, but mid tones were muddy and not particularly sharp. I don't think I'll be trying that again.
Thank you for your help and for your excellent videos. Keep them coming.
Sounds like the Fomapan 200's a winner with 510! Oh, if you don't need that Olympus I'll take it :)
Ha-ha. I love using the Olympus cameras. My two (the OM 2 and OM 2n) are staying firmly with me.
I ran a roll of Fomapan through my Canon EOS 5 yesterday. (I can hear the purists saying that I shouldn't be using such a camera) so that I can compare my previous results with those from a camera with a modern lens. I used the 24mm - 70mm Mk ii from my Canon 5D Mk IV. I'll develop the film today.
😉 I had an OM2n many years ago and loved it. Marvellous camera and terrific lenses. I'm very happy for you, Colin.
That makes two happy people. The great thing is that you can pick up an OM 2n and (most Olympus) lenses quite cheaply. Very good value in today's market place.
That’s really impressive, that’s a cracking developer!!
I know, amazing!
Wow, that’s amazing like truly beautiful work. Thank you for everything you do on your channel.
Thanks Gabriel
The *very first roll* of film I developed without supervision (1970, age 10) was in Dektol. As D-72, it's been a "universal" developer since its introduction in the 1930s. Mix your own (metol, hydroquinone, sodium sulfite, and sodium carbonate) or buy it prepackaged dry.
Dilute 1+1, 1+2, or 1+3 for prints, 1+9 for film; expect results similar to Rodinal (crisp, sharp grain).
Great comment, thank you!
Fantastic John 👍
Cheers!!
i've had a bottle of pre-diluted PQ universal at 1+35 sitting for a while and i just developed a small test strip and it worked just fine. I'm gonna put the developer back in the bottle for reuse since it shouldn't have affected it too badly with just a strip of 5 photos..
Ow do John! I've used this formula a few times for processing film but not for paper. I've always used D163 (home made version) for my prints. Next time I mix some PQ Uni I'll give it a bash. Many thanks for a great illustration.
You're welcome, Ray!
This is great John, thanks.
I just discovered a developer which does the same, develop film and paper. But the great thing of it, is that it is awesome to reverse b&w paper and film as well.
I shot some negative paper in my pinholes and I developed them with it (a process with bleach and a bath in potassium metabisulfite) and I obtained some lovely positive photos on paper directly out of the camera. I just love it. So I was wondering if a similar process would work with this as well?
Here’s,
Andrea
I don't know if this developer of which you speak, Andrea? Which one is it?
Can you email me the process and formula. I can do a video on it :)
Thanks for another great video, just when I was ready to start again you give me a different path to choose. I have done B&W darkroom for some time, but, am getting back into it after resurrecting equipment that's been packed away in the shed. Your videos have really been a big help, dispelling some things I thought I knew and confirming others. In this video you use 1:29 dilution, but your website says 1:19, which is correct?
Thanks, Mike, for pointing out the discrepancy. I do like the my website and videos to reflect each other, even as I adjust my process over the years. On the website I show 1+19 which works well but gives short development times. In the video I used 1+29 to give me the longer development time of 10 minutes, which I like because it's less prone to mistakes. I'll add the dilution to the website. Again, thank you and the best of luck with your darkroom resurrection. I'm sure you'll get great pleasure from making your prints.
You can use programs to remove that hiss from the background noise it's really quite easy
Thanks, Melody. It's the water in my print wash.
Evening John. Great prints!! After using the mix for developing the prints, do you keep the dev that was used in the tray for another days? as i do with my Ilford Multigrade print developer.
Hi John, this does sound very interesting and a huge plus of it saves cash and works for both film and paper.
I've been dabbling with Thornton's 2 Bath that I purchase ready to mix from local camera store but wondered if you qould recommend an online reseller for the chemistry?
Thanks in advance and love the videos
With Thornton's 2-bath you could probably purchase the chemicals on eBay. If you have trouble getting metaborate use borax as your bath B (10g to a litre water). Change bath B after 5 films.
Thanks for the cooking lesson John :)
This developer is also known as Ilford ID-62. Strangely enough, it's not in Steve Anchell's Darkroom Cookbook
What's the shelf life of this stuff ?
I think it will be quite reasonable. Certainly, when made as a working solution I've been using it for paper for three days, popping it in a bottle each night.
I am impressed with the results. Does that mean I have to go shopping again? It's starting to be like my camera's... I don't know which to pick... Thanks for the video! Cheers!
Ha! That's too funny! I know what you mean. So many choices but it's fun to see what's out there and how they permit. I had to stop buying lenses a few years ago because I wanted them all. Thanks for your fun comment, Christopher!
@15:42 Is your print washer just an upside down funnel in the sink? Would love to know more about that.
Ha! Yes!
HI John. I really like your videos and will buy that book! And your results for this developer are super. One question and comment. As I was writing my notes on your video, I believe you said to for paper development to add 150 mL of the PQ Universal to 1000 mL of water - did you meant to make 1000 mL working solution (which seems customary) or did I not hear your instructions correctly? I know the difference in concentration of the developer would be pretty small but I am just trying to be exact in my notes. [Edit: so I re-watched and I can see you did add water until there is a total of 1 L ] Secondly, I checked the molar masses and it seems there is 17.0% difference between the anhydrous and monohydrate versions of sodium carbonate. That is, if you use the monohydrate version of sodium carbonate, you should use 35.1g instead of 30g of the anhydrous sodium carbonate. At least here in the states, the common supplier of washing soda is Arm & Hammer and they state in their MSDS that it is 88% pure sodium carbonate, which implies that it is a mixture of anhydrous and monohydrate. It looks like you had some from a chemical supplier so you must be using the anhydrous form. I just read in your reply to another viewer to add 25% more for the monohydrate. I know with small differences in these developer recipes it is just as important to be consistent with your measurements as it is to be accurate so I hope you take no offense. Again, I really enjoy what you are doing!
No offence taken. Thank you for your helpful comment, David.
I hope you can answer this for me being new to home developing. How long will the made developer last for and how many prints should I be able able to get with that 1 liter bottle. Thank you so much.
I have not tested the life of the developer but, looking at the formula, I would expect it to last at least a few months if looked after (see my earlier videos about lighter gas). A 1 ltr bottle of concentrate, diluted to working solution, should develop many many prints, similar to any other print developer.
I made this up and tried it for Films ; I found using 'Clip Tests' for AGFA APX 100 i got only 50 ASA and had to give 15 mins. For outdated EFKE KB40 I got 40 ASA and had to use 10 mins -- I bet MY times for FP4+ will be much longer than yours!
Must be the Scottish water 🤣
Are you using distilled water, or just regular tap?
I use regular water here but water from the tap varies from place to place. I'm very lucky in north Scotland. If you doubt your water quality then use distilled. If you're not sure try your tap water first and see how it works. I bet many places will be just fine. May I ask where you are?
@@PictorialPlanet Canada. Our water is pretty good, but I would say it's medium-hardness as far as minerals go where I am specifically.
I'm struggling to find any information on developing times for film & paper with this sort of developer.. could you steer me in the right direction or suggest a developer with comparable development times? I mostly shoot tri-x400 or fomapan 400 and use ilford RC papers.
The paper I cover in the video. 150ml made to 1 Ltr W/W. 2 minutes (or use factorial if you've read my book). For film, try the 10 minutes and increase 20% if the contrast is too low, reduce 20% if too high. Go for it! This is the craft.
I like the idea of a one-stop developer. Have you tried to purchase hydroquinone in the U.K? A photographic supplier wants £16 for 50g! I cannot find a supplier on the internet. Is there a substitute that can be used in place of it?
I have a list of chemical suppliers on my website. There might be an alternate source there, Dennis.
@@PictorialPlanet I just found one in London £21.00 for 250 grams courier posted.
Nice!
B...u....t what about the Rodinal glow??
Lol
In the past, I used a lot of PQ Universal (Ilford pre-made) for paper only and really liked it. Honestly, I didn't know that the formula was public domain, thanks for that! If all I have on hand is the monohydrate version of Sodium Carbonate, what would be the multiplier to achieve equivalent weight?
Hi Alan. Mono is of course heavier than the anhydrous. From anhyd to mono add 25% weight. From mono to anhyd use 80% weight.
@@PictorialPlanet Thanks, John.
Is this even real
Amazing, isn't it! Hope you give it a go!!