@ladistar 3years ago his last season in GB and he was still throwing dudes under the bus ,not showing up helping the team out all while being terrible
Francesa doesn't like the Jets. He takes joy usually in mocking them. The only reason he might be a bit perturbed right now is because he also worships Rodgers.
I am 76 Was at AFL championship game vs Oakland in 1968 leading to Super Bowl. NEVER EVER did I think I would still be waiting. And apaarently will continue waiting OMG
I know I'm beating a dead horse - but we gotta look at MetLife - voted the worst stadium to play in by the NFL players themselves. And 5th worst by NFL broadcasters. Jets: 55-66 at MetLife, Giants; 54-66-1 at MetLife. Lot's of glare, super windy, terrible artificial turf. PSL's means no real fans until the teams are out of it. Just zero home field advantage for both teams.
I'd argue that he's been done (or close to it) since that 49er playoff loss at home, a few years back in the snow. He just hasn't looked the same since that game.
Sam Darnold led a beautiful game winning drive...made not 1, not 2, but 3 crucial plays with his legs while the Vikings o-line let him down basically for 3 qtrs. I'm not saying Darnold is all pro qb...but damn Vikings should consider re signing him to a 2 year extension. Be named qb1 next season....if he shines you could possibly get mid to late 2nd round draft pick.
Must say, I honestly didn't expect to hear Mike put today's loss on Rodgers: last week I blasted him for his Rodgers' man crush. But, what a win by the Steelers: we gave up 38 points and still win. Remarkable! If anyone told me that we gave up 38 points, I'd say that we have lost, but Tomlin keeps getting oil from stone.
The players are great, the coaches are great, ownership is great, you fans are great, everythings great.....but.... we're 2-9, and we've been outscored 230-140, and we have 1 int on the year... and yesterday Geno Smith completed 10 passes for NINE THOUSAND YAWDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rodgers is done. It's that simple. He doesn't have a strong foundation to support his unorthodox mechanics anymore. Plus, he doesn't want to relive the pain of another leg injury. I'd love for him to announce his retirement. Hand it off to Taylor and start the last game to say goodbye to the game. By doing it like that. The last start of his career will be celebrated instead of the fans being relieved he's done.
After the jets brought in their first low character HOF Packer QB and it failed, they actually had their only successful run in recent history in its aftermath. Hoping this will play out similarly
“You play to win the game. When you start telling me it doesn’t matter then retire, get out because it matters “. Well Aaron, you heard Herm. Retire! Get out!!
I lost a lot on the Jets today and they were up early so I thought they would win. I've been betting the Jets and Giants lately and getting destroyed what the hell it's embarrassing to watch NYC pro football the last ten years.
I have been numb for weeks with this team. Losses are not even phasing me. I already knew they were losing thia game because do they win games? Nope. Do they ever play well at home? Nope. They they ever play well after bye weeks? Nope. This franchised is cursed.
With the Jets, it is always one play with them. Always one thing with this Jets team that always sinks them. That's a microcosm of their season. Microcosm of their franchise. Always a play. One play that sinks this franchise
Well Mike,the Ravens did need it more than the Eagles,but the Eagles won anyway IN Baltimore...maybe put the breaks on the Lion love fest,they sure as hell would not win in Baltimore.
I think it was the 13 seconds Chiefs vs Bills game got into his head so Pierce wanted to give as less time as possible. That’s the only reason I can think of.
The pick 6 kill the Jets I knew as well it was game changing we score a TD if Arron throws it on target to GW we go up 28 to 7 that changes the game on how Seahawks play we win if that happen but the word if is always what it is if 🤦🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️
at worst it's a short field goal and 24-7. How he throws a pick 6 to a d'lineman is beyond me and stupidity that he has never shown before. How on earth do you let that happen? Jets are not good but on top of it all they have the worst luck in football Their point differential is -43 no way in hell should that be 3-9. The Rams point differential is -36...they're 6-6 Jets should be at worst 5-7
Mike, clearly the Eagles weren't listening to today's podcast. What are your thoughts on the outcome against the Ravens? I'll hang up and listen, thanks for taking my call, God bless you, Rose and the boys.
I say it again Rodgers at this point be better off doing research in vaccines with Dr. Fauci!!! And btw Rodgers mocking calling The Great Travis Kelcey “Mr Pfizer” just know the Kelcey has already 3 superbowls, a great personality and an awesome brother and an awesome podcast.
I disagree, Seattle's D only allowed 14 pts. SP teams made the defense's job 100 x harder constantly giving the Jets a short field wether it was via fumble or a 35-40 yd kick return. The only gripe I had for my Hawk's defense was Riq giving up a 25 yd pass on a check down on a crucial 3rd and 26 late in the game.
I just want to thank the QB that they gave Mahomes-type money for turning the ball over 3 times and gifting The Steelers 10 easy points. We've reserved a game ball for Joe Burrows. Good job bud.
The rookie Davis kid, at RB, showed some promise, especially catching the ball! Not so much on that last block....oooof. Maybe he wants Rodgers out too!
Jags fan here. Still tho I love listening to the pope of NY sports talk. Two things. 1. The jags need to trade Lawrence for some picks and start over at qb. As well as get away from this college style offense. It’s absolute trash. 2. The amount of poor coaching decisions is at an all time high right now. I don’t know why guys go along with the video game culture of always going for it on 4th in the first quarter? That always leads to 4th quarter situations that cost teams games when they should have just played correctly from the beginning. A lot of points are being left on the field by coaches that go for it on 4th inside field goal range. It’s reckless and costly to winning percentage.
I already know they are going to screw this all up. Going into next season, they will handle this collection of "so-called" talent. They will pick the wrong GM, wrong HC, wrong OC and the cycle will restart. Rinse and repeat. The draft order does not matter because they will screw that up too. It will be 14,15,16 + years with no postseason appearances until the curse is uplifted. There is no identity. Of course, the Jets gets an all time great and fizzles out here. In fact, they will move on from him, Rodgers will go to another team and play really well and that will add to the litany of garbage that will just continue
The Giants started the year with an over paid mediocre qb, the Jets had a future HOF and good young players, with bigger expectations! Giants are trash, but the Jets smell!
I already know they are going to screw this all up. Going into next season, they will handle this collection of "so-called" talent. They will pick the wrong GM, wrong HC, wrong OC and the cycle will restart. Rinse and repeat. The draft order does not matter because they will screw that up too. It will be 14,15,16 + years with no postseason appearances until the curse is uplifted. There is no identity. Of course, the Jets gets an all time great and fizzles out here. In fact, they will move on from him, Rodgers will go to another team and play really well and that will add to the litany of garbage that will just continue in Florham Park
Mike has been on a roll lately. Jets doing their part to provide him with ammunition, we know he loves to kill them. But this year rightfully so. The only thing the jets are good for right now is live betting against them. Leonard Williams ?? 90 yard pick 6!? He was terrible for the jets, talk about salt in the wound. Mike any thoughts on the rumor that Brick Johnson, Woodys 17 year old kid, is making personnel recommendations? I’ll hang up and listen
In defense of Antonio Pierce the Chiefs had all of their timeouts and probably wanted to run the clock to a point where Pat Mahomes couldn't be magical and comeback
Tom Brady goes to Tampa Bay at 45 years old, brings his buddy Gronk, win a Super Bowl in YEAR ONE! Rodgers goes to the Jets at 41, gets injured, next year brings his buddy Davante, MISERABLE FAILURE! It’s an organizational issue, people.
So?.... Draft night! 1.) JETS - Shedeur Sanders 2.) GIANTS - Cam Ward Deion Sanders, becomes the Jets new HC! Brian Flores, becomes the Giants new HC! Fresh start for both franchises next season!
As bad as Rodgers has played this season, he's thrown 19 TDs and will probably be in the top 5 of Jets QBs for TDs in a single season. That's how bad the Jets QB history has been.
Where were the fast players on the Jets chasing down Williams on the pick 6? Hall? Wilson? Adams? He was totally gassed with 20 yards left. No effort at all. I think because they all hate Rodgers.
Man, just 3 months ago, all NY teams were looking good: Mets/Yanks playoff bound - looking like a potential subway series then NOT, Jets = started the season 2-1 then as the Jets ALWAYS do - the bottom fell out, NY Knicks - well, it's still early but now they don't play consistent defense, especially down in the low post plus the dude they gave up 5 DRAFT PICKS for is benched.......u can't make this SH** up!!!!!
About time Francesca is honest about Rodgers. He's done. He's been done. 41 is it for him.
How long has he been done you think, when did you first start to notice
@@ladistarsince his last year in Green Bay
@ladistar 3years ago his last season in GB and he was still throwing dudes under the bus ,not showing up helping the team out all while being terrible
Jets had me thinking for 10 seconds, “ wow, their gonna win today” then Rodgers threw the pick 6 and all momentum shifted
What did they do in the 2nd half for you to think they could win?
Rodgers is toast
It’s nice you still have enough wimsey in your heart that you thought this Jets team was capable of playing a serviceable 4 quarters of football.
*they’re
THEY ARE. Not THEIR. Another man that doesn’t know basic grammar. Typical jets fan
No usual anger or frustraion from Mike Francesa. He has become immune to the pain.
Yep just like Joe Benigno "Oh the pain"! 😂🤣
Like I have over the Giants!
Francesa doesn't like the Jets. He takes joy usually in mocking them. The only reason he might be a bit perturbed right now is because he also worships Rodgers.
I am 76 Was at AFL championship game vs Oakland in 1968 leading to Super Bowl. NEVER EVER did I think I would still be waiting. And apaarently will continue waiting OMG
I know I'm beating a dead horse - but we gotta look at MetLife - voted the worst stadium to play in by the NFL players themselves. And 5th worst by NFL broadcasters. Jets: 55-66 at MetLife, Giants; 54-66-1 at MetLife. Lot's of glare, super windy, terrible artificial turf. PSL's means no real fans until the teams are out of it. Just zero home field advantage for both teams.
I’m still confused about that place. It’s almost like they were trying to design and build the worst possible place to attend a sporting event.
It’s cursed!
Woody was looking to save a buck. A buck he didn’t even earn
The other teams have to play on it too. The familiarity should be an advantage .
Worst fan experience as well.
Rogers’ block was the best play he made all day
Its Rodgers not Rogers
Kenny
Rodgers has been done since the first Buffalo gams last year.
I'd argue that he's been done (or close to it) since that 49er playoff loss at home, a few years back in the snow. He just hasn't looked the same since that game.
I’m 48 and all I can say is Same old jets now and forever.
Comment made 48 minutes ago
59 and been bad but at least as a child I had rhe Broadway Joe experience.
And in 48 more years, they’ll still be the same Jets
Boo hoo at least yall got a ring
😂😂😂
U finally woke up, Mike.
Sam Darnold led a beautiful game winning drive...made not 1, not 2, but 3 crucial plays with his legs while the Vikings o-line let him down basically for 3 qtrs. I'm not saying Darnold is all pro qb...but damn Vikings should consider re signing him to a 2 year extension. Be named qb1 next season....if he shines you could possibly get mid to late 2nd round draft pick.
Must say, I honestly didn't expect to hear Mike put today's loss on Rodgers: last week I blasted him for his Rodgers' man crush. But, what a win by the Steelers: we gave up 38 points and still win. Remarkable! If anyone told me that we gave up 38 points, I'd say that we have lost, but Tomlin keeps getting oil from stone.
What are you doing here?
Then Tomlin will lose to David Garrard or Tim Tebow in he playoffs. Has he won anything without Cowher's players?
How many of those plays were you in on? You said “we”
I knew the Jets were going to lose after those back-to-back disastrous plays. As usual, the Jets find a creative way to lose.
The Godfather of sports talk.
turn up the mic
The players are great, the coaches are great, ownership is great, you fans are great, everythings great.....but.... we're 2-9, and we've been outscored 230-140, and we have 1 int on the year... and yesterday Geno Smith completed 10 passes for NINE THOUSAND YAWDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jee Knows Myth
But bring back Rex right?
@@noF8shipRex would turn this team into a contender
I was at the game I frozed my ass was so cold.
I would have stayed home if I were you
glutton for punishment?
@@bobbenbrown123 first time since 1998 I haven't been to a game 😂
Rodgers is done. It's that simple. He doesn't have a strong foundation to support his unorthodox mechanics anymore. Plus, he doesn't want to relive the pain of another leg injury. I'd love for him to announce his retirement. Hand it off to Taylor and start the last game to say goodbye to the game. By doing it like that. The last start of his career will be celebrated instead of the fans being relieved he's done.
OVERRATED…. Roger’s is a cancer to any team that doesn’t go his way… give me Eli any day over crazy…
Rodgers
Rodgers should move onto the next chapter of his life
Back to the darkness!
@@NoellaScott It’s ugly
Watch him win next year with a real team
@@jimwerther Giants baby
@@jimwerthernobody is going to want him
*Salah out there somewhere grinning wider than the grinch* 😆
Why? He was a terrible coach
Saleh
@ whatever
@ head coach*
Mike says “ none of it will work, it’s the Jets” 😅
Is inevitable to think of the jets and Mets when you heard that phrase from Mike. lol
After the jets brought in their first low character HOF Packer QB and it failed, they actually had their only successful run in recent history in its aftermath. Hoping this will play out similarly
The Steelers are the Anti-Jets.
“You play to win the game. When you start telling me it doesn’t matter then retire, get out because it matters “. Well Aaron, you heard Herm. Retire! Get out!!
Mike and the Mad dog sports radio 66.. they’re talkin sports going at it as hard as they can
Wow
Mike , Are you wearing a Bolo tie? I'll hang up and listen .
I love his exuberance
I lost a lot on the Jets today and they were up early so I thought they would win.
I've been betting the Jets and Giants lately and getting destroyed what the hell it's embarrassing to watch NYC pro football the last ten years.
Why would you bet the Jets? Lol 😅
Dude fade the Jets
You must love losing money 🤣🤣 why would you ever bet those 2 loser franchises ?!
what is your drug of choice?
I can't wait to hear Joe Bonigno's podcast Ranting.
Shame on y’all for thinking that Aaron Rodgers was gonna be your savior. Look at his stats three years prior he been trash.🗑️ 😂
Totally failed experiment
How does a lineman return a pick 90 yds
This team quit with that play on
I have been numb for weeks with this team. Losses are not even phasing me. I already knew they were losing thia game because do they win games? Nope. Do they ever play well at home? Nope. They they ever play well after bye weeks? Nope.
This franchised is cursed.
Hey 👋 mike. Do the jets and jet blue. Go out for sushi. ?? Ill hang up and listen 📞
@@mikejejenich-pb5zx In reference to the SF Giants and NYG haha I remember that
"True story?" -Christopher "Mad Dog" Russo
🤣🤣🤣😭😭
Spot on about the poor coaching nowadays.
U mean no jet offensive players could catch that 300 lb man running 92 yards
Make the mic mix louder
Make mikes mic louder
Old man begins to wake uop about Rodgers but he's still in denial about Trevor Lawrence LOL What a hack
Rodgers is 41 years old with insane mileage coming off a serious often career-ending injury, Mike et al. People act surprised - still!
Jets fans just love blaming people 😂
@@timetraveler2649 Mike is a Giants fan. I'm a Patriots fan. Rodgers is fucking toast.
@@lordhegamonster6931 Please do run it back. We all enjoy easy betting on days like today. I simply took the Seahawks money line and laughed.
@@lordhegamonster6931keep dreaming 😅😅
Wilson pulling a Kurt Warner?
Just when you think it can't get worse....
You can change the practice facility, you could change the uniforms, BRO
Should have been a delay of game on that pick-six too. I'm sure it would have been called had the Jets scored.
If you though Rodgers was going to turn the Jets around, you haven't been paying attention for 55 years. Seriously.
FIRE Joe Schoen!!!
Come on Mike. Simply put Rodgers was terrible. He missed wide open WRs and he’s simply a shell of himself. It’s time for him to retire.
With the Jets, it is always one play with them. Always one thing with this Jets team that always sinks them. That's a microcosm of their season. Microcosm of their franchise. Always a play. One play that sinks this franchise
Well Mike,the Ravens did need it more than the Eagles,but the Eagles won anyway IN Baltimore...maybe put the breaks on the Lion love fest,they sure as hell would not win in Baltimore.
Once again why is the volume on this podcast so damn low??
It’s mikes false teeth blocking the sound from his mouth
Boomers
The volume has been a problem here since day 1. There have been constant complaints about this
@@dasefxrob Mike does his podcast from the bedroom and Roe doesn’t like to hear him so he has to whisper.
I think it was the 13 seconds Chiefs vs Bills game got into his head so Pierce wanted to give as less time as possible. That’s the only reason I can think of.
Just when you think you saw it all, you saw all the years of losses, the Jets come up with a new way to lose the game in a dramatic way!
The pick 6 kill the Jets I knew as well it was game changing we score a TD if Arron throws it on target to GW we go up 28 to 7 that changes the game on how Seahawks play we win if that happen but the word if is always what it is if 🤦🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️
at worst it's a short field goal and 24-7. How he throws a pick 6 to a d'lineman is beyond me and stupidity that he has never shown before. How on earth do you let that happen?
Jets are not good but on top of it all they have the worst luck in football
Their point differential is -43 no way in hell should that be 3-9. The Rams point differential is -36...they're 6-6
Jets should be at worst 5-7
Philly, Mike
Mike, clearly the Eagles weren't listening to today's podcast. What are your thoughts on the outcome against the Ravens? I'll hang up and listen, thanks for taking my call, God bless you, Rose and the boys.
The early pick-six wasn't entirely on Russ. Pickens fell down and Britt was in the right place at the right time.
Rodgers maybe not so great, always had great receivers, 1 SB in his long career, OVER RATED LIKE HELL
“ PUT MY MIC ON !! “
Eli Manning has 2 super bowl MVP awards
I say it again Rodgers at this point be better off doing research in vaccines with Dr. Fauci!!!
And btw Rodgers mocking calling The Great Travis Kelcey “Mr Pfizer” just know the Kelcey has already 3 superbowls, a great personality and an awesome brother and an awesome podcast.
Fantastic statement love it
Kelsey is a sell out..but thanks to him and others being Guinea pigs for taking an experimental shot.
I disagree, Seattle's D only allowed 14 pts. SP teams made the defense's job 100 x harder constantly giving the Jets a short field wether it was via fumble or a 35-40 yd kick return. The only gripe I had for my Hawk's defense was Riq giving up a 25 yd pass on a check down on a crucial 3rd and 26 late in the game.
Russel Wilson , is a champion.... you'se could not see him, " coming back " ??? are you'se ' STUUPPID ??? you'se are !!! GO Steelers !!!
WOOD YEE- SELL THE TEAM!
Not as long as the fans keep showing up
5:15 two WeAllKniwThat in a row. Over/under was 3
I just want to thank the QB that they gave Mahomes-type money for turning the ball over 3 times and gifting The Steelers 10 easy points. We've reserved a game ball for Joe Burrows. Good job bud.
MIKE JETS WON !!!
BETTER DRAFT PICKS!!!
Unfortunately, the Jets do not know how to Draft.
Rodgers lost them that game
The rookie Davis kid, at RB, showed some promise, especially catching the ball! Not so much on that last block....oooof. Maybe he wants Rodgers out too!
This town can’t football.
Proper English please 🥺😅😅
Jags fan here. Still tho I love listening to the pope of NY sports talk. Two things.
1. The jags need to trade Lawrence for some picks and start over at qb. As well as get away from this college style offense. It’s absolute trash.
2. The amount of poor coaching decisions is at an all time high right now. I don’t know why guys go along with the video game culture of always going for it on 4th in the first quarter? That always leads to 4th quarter situations that cost teams games when they should have just played correctly from the beginning. A lot of points are being left on the field by coaches that go for it on 4th inside field goal range. It’s reckless and costly to winning percentage.
I already know they are going to screw this all up. Going into next season, they will handle this collection of "so-called" talent.
They will pick the wrong GM, wrong HC, wrong OC and the cycle will restart. Rinse and repeat.
The draft order does not matter because they will screw that up too. It will be 14,15,16 + years with no postseason appearances until the curse is uplifted. There is no identity.
Of course, the Jets gets an all time great and fizzles out here. In fact, they will move on from him, Rodgers will go to another team and play really well and that will add to the litany of garbage that will just continue
We let them hang around. You knew what was going to happen.
Why did YOU let them hang around?
Mike should bash the Giants as much as the Jets considering both are bottom feeding franchises with terrible ownership.
The Giants started the year with an over paid mediocre qb, the Jets had a future HOF and good young players, with bigger expectations! Giants are trash, but the Jets smell!
He does.
He bash both team and it while deserve
At least the giants have won something in the past 20 years
I already know they are going to screw this all up. Going into next season, they will handle this collection of "so-called" talent.
They will pick the wrong GM, wrong HC, wrong OC and the cycle will restart. Rinse and repeat.
The draft order does not matter because they will screw that up too. It will be 14,15,16 + years with no postseason appearances until the curse is uplifted. There is no identity.
Of course, the Jets gets an all time great and fizzles out here. In fact, they will move on from him, Rodgers will go to another team and play really well and that will add to the litany of garbage that will just continue in Florham Park
Mike has been on a roll lately. Jets doing their part to provide him with ammunition, we know he loves to kill them. But this year rightfully so. The only thing the jets are good for right now is live betting against them. Leonard Williams ?? 90 yard pick 6!? He was terrible for the jets, talk about salt in the wound. Mike any thoughts on the rumor that Brick Johnson, Woodys 17 year old kid, is making personnel recommendations? I’ll hang up and listen
that hit on Lawrence was awful. could've killed/paralyzed Lawrence. Lawrence was clearly going to slide
Suspend him till next year and fine him big!
@@MrMytube60they only do that if you criticize the league; but not if you try to maime someone on the field
I was expecting Jet put a better fight and come out victorious. Unfortunately, mental mistakes crushed them out...
The volume is indeed a problem. Mike does his podcast from his basement. When Roe is home she makes him whisper.
Rodger’s was lucky not to have that INT picked twice
In defense of Antonio Pierce the Chiefs had all of their timeouts and probably wanted to run the clock to a point where Pat Mahomes couldn't be magical and comeback
Tom Brady goes to Tampa Bay at 45 years old, brings his buddy Gronk, win a Super Bowl in YEAR ONE!
Rodgers goes to the Jets at 41, gets injured, next year brings his buddy Davante, MISERABLE FAILURE!
It’s an organizational issue, people.
Mike we have been telling you Rodgers was threw his last year in green bay. All of you were blaming the young receivers.
That hit on Lawrence was clean he was a runner in that situation
As much as Tubby hates the Jets, he probably feels sorry for them at this point
So?.... Draft night!
1.) JETS - Shedeur Sanders
2.) GIANTS - Cam Ward
Deion Sanders, becomes the Jets new HC!
Brian Flores, becomes the Giants new HC!
Fresh start for both franchises next season!
🤦♂️
The Giants going to pick before the Jets.
🤡💩
Pick 6 was the big play of the game. Yet they still had a chance, but self destructed with penalties. Just a bad football 🏈 team. Aaron is done.
Hey Mike, have you given up hope on the Jets running the table and making the playoffs lol. I'll hang up and listen.
Rodgers, the old man, is done. He should retire.
As bad as Rodgers has played this season, he's thrown 19 TDs and will probably be in the top 5 of Jets QBs for TDs in a single season. That's how bad the Jets QB history has been.
People forget Rogers had some bad seasons in GB-he’s not been ‘all world’ this season-he’s def part of the problem
Bring Back Carroll
Jets will probably win 1 or 2 more and wreck draft position. Cant even lose properly
That’s a likely situation. Better off benching Rogers and putting your third string QB.
That’s right, Mike. Kaaron sucks. Welcome to reality.
Complete meltdown. Something wrong with their heads. Release Aaron. Let somebody else refreshen the room. His HOF career is over.
So Rodgers and Lawrence are both still elite?
Where were the fast players on the Jets chasing down Williams on the pick 6? Hall? Wilson? Adams? He was totally gassed with 20 yards left. No effort at all. I think because they all hate Rodgers.
Jersey Mike with Diet Coke 😝
Man, just 3 months ago, all NY teams were looking good: Mets/Yanks playoff bound - looking like a potential subway series then NOT, Jets = started the season 2-1 then as the Jets ALWAYS do - the bottom fell out, NY Knicks - well, it's still early but now they don't play consistent defense, especially down in the low post plus the dude they gave up 5 DRAFT PICKS for is benched.......u can't make this SH** up!!!!!
Dodgers would also beat both NY football teams!
@@amberrivera9684 dodgers vs Rodgers
@@timothyh6670 Ohtani a better QB than Rodgers 🤣
@@amberrivera9684 we have to see what Rodger’s fastball is like.
Over 10 penalties in the second half didn’t help them either.
I'm not a Jet fan I love seeing them lose but that defense is awful no accountability anywhere