Why Rome Couldn't Conquer Scotland | The Roman Conquest Of Britain (Part 4)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
- Watch Part 3 here: • Boudica's Reign Of Blo...
In the aftermath of Boudicca’s uprising, the Romans felt they could not withdraw from the British Isles. They sent their most competent fighters and leaders to suppress the indigenous Britons in the south. As the Druids of Wales were defeated, and the resistant Caledonians were massacred, the process of Romanisation in Britain began. London became the urbanised imperial capital, and the Roman love of hot springs saw the development of Bath. And, forty years after their arrival, they finally reached the Highlands, conquering lands as north as Orkney.
Listen as Tom and Dominic discuss how the Romans circumnavigated the British Isles, colonised its lands and returned to Rome as heroes.
_______
LIVE SHOWS
The Rest Is History LIVE in the U.S.A.
If you live in the States, we've got some great news: Tom and Dominic will be performing throughout America in November, with shows in San Francisco, L.A., Chicago, Philadelphia, Washington D.C., Boston and New York.
The Rest Is History LIVE at the Royal Albert Hall
Tom and Dominic, accompanied by a live orchestra, take a deep dive into the lives and times of two of history’s greatest composers: Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and Ludwig van Beethoven.
Tickets on sale now at TheRestIsHistory.com
_______
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @restishistorypod
Twitter:
@TheRestHistory
@holland_tom
@dcsandbrook
Producer: Theo Young-Smith
Assistant Producer: Tabby Syrett
Executive Producers: Jack Davenport + Tony Pastor
My wife and I have been clambering up and down along Hadrian’s wall all morning so this is perfect
I'm about to start watching and I can't say enough about how much these videos have helped me cope during these difficult times.
I know it's a labor of love but it means a lot to me as a disabled older person. Thank you.
I am a non disabled young person and you are correct, these are difficult times. What can we learn from the Romans?
@@Special_Observations_89 I've listened to a 36 part series of 2 hour videos on the history of Rome 3 times.
We could learn something about actually investing in our people, for one.
But it's the same old story, men thirst for wealth and power so they can get the girl, or whover.
I think in The States we can learn more useful lessons by studying mid 20th Century Europe and Rwanda in 1993-94. Paticularly the role that media played in the devastation that occured in Rwanda.
@@jefferyansani1923we’re still in the Roman Empire. Even Rwanda’s been affected.
God bless you Jeffery. I may never know you, but we bond through these videos. Good to know there are so many out there like us who love this kind of stuff and find that thinking about it and sharing about it helps us through life.
I love how Dominic just let's Tom talk, and then just asks the most insightful follow up question.... As much as loved the Custer series... This one is up there with it...
You guys are pure champions.
As a Scot myself, the Romans probably got bored shitless being asked whether they supported the 'Gers or the 'Tic.
It's pretty obvious who Italian immigrants would support in Scotland 😉
@@johncarroll772 don’t generalise. I’m Scottish with Italian roots in my family & I’m rangers .
Parker Douglas you Gattuso traitor
They're hard fighters in Scotland. If you live in a country where the thistles are waist high and nobody's invented trousers you're going to toughen up a bit aren't you.
😂
😂
Another misconception. We know that the Picts wore trousers because that is set in stone (look up the Pictish carvings).
@@alicemilne1444stone is impossible to carbon date, those carvings could have been done last week
Love when you all read the excerpts using voices. It adds so much life to the story. Please never stop. 🌟
I disagree. Reading something in bad fake accents and making stereotypical mocking comments is completely unprofessional. It spoilt what was otherwise an interesting account.
I have watched many of the history channels on TH-cam and yours is the most serious of them all and the one I most enjoy .
Fascinating. So much of this account resonates with events we see today. It's true: wherever there is power, there is resistance.
thank you very much, indeed .... it is great to spent free time qualitatively and enjoy your podcast
Brilliant! Thankyou Tom and Dominic. A feast of rich history!
The Romans applied cost/benefit analysis, Wales had tin, gold and copper, England had lead, iron, copper, gold, silver and pearls. There was no easily accessible resource from Scotland. Hardscrapple farmers and shepherds could not produce huge surpluses like Egypt, France and the Po Valley. Would you fight a guerilla war to win almost nothing in return?
You’re forgetting the potential for olive oil exports - the markets of Hibernia would always need the means to deep-fry food :)
Haggis...??
@@2msvalkyrie529The Roman mind couldn’t comprehend the fortune that wild haggis would have earned them.
England didn't exist when the Romans were in Britain, ya fanny! The Angles/Saxons were still Germans living in Germania & the island of Britain was Celtic. Steamer!
@@GoBlueGirl78 Since it was the Romans who introduced what is now called haggis, the free range wild haggi must have been imported from Rome itself.
They had a good look and said “Nah”.
thank you guys! amazing
More MORE Please!!! Love these accounts stories and how you both tell it!! ❤❤❤❤❤
You guys are simply the BEST. 👏
I’d just like to say, this podcast could be next level with the display of images, source writings, maps, aerial imagery, modern photos etc. (as needed)
Nonetheless, awesome podcast
“The problem with Scotland… is that it’s full of Picts!”
-Julius “Longshanks” Caesar
So in that movie, a Pictish chieftain played by Mel Gibson in a crappy wig has an affair with Octavian Caesar's wife 🤣
“Wits wae aww these illegal German immigrants flying a Turkish flag like 🏴? Who’s #latin them aww in?”
- Rab C Nesbitine, 1690 AD.
@Hrossey Why, hello Rab!
I like the moon-shot analogy. A bit like the why climb Everest question to George Mallory. Because its there.
I conquered Scotland. The Scots love me. My Scotland Rallies are the best & biggest!
Ardoch Roman Fort is worth a visit. The ramparts are well preserved and there are the remains of at least three camps.
You really are good at this stuff.
I had to look up "simulacrum" 🤣so I am learning vocabulary as well as history. Brilliant series, thanks guys ❤
Wow! Didn't know you guys do live streams. I've always just listened to the podcast. (I'm also a premium member 😁Will be seeing you two live in November in Los Angeles!)
Artificial in the way that a Mc Donald’s in an American camp in Afghanistan is artificial.” You have an amazing ability to bring history to life…
This was really well done, I'm impressed. I would definitely like to hear more of your take on Roman Britain and particularly scotland. Severus' wholesale slaughter maybe the most brutal? And indeed, for very little gain except some kind of prestige, why such investment from Rome. The Scottish accent could do with a bit of polish mind you.
I'm a Kiwi of Cameron descent. My Kiwi ancestors were tough, but their Scottish ancestors even more so. Ewen Cameron of Lochiel famously tore out an English officer's windpipe with his teeth in unarmed combat, describing it as "'the sweetest bite ever he had". It also gives you an idea how bad haggis is.
As often happens, I mashed the like button ten seconds into Dominic’s theatrical opening.
50:54 it's also worth mentioning that at the time of writing (98AD) Domitian has been assassinated and a new dynasty has begun. When an emperor is assassinated, whoever ends up on the throne, if they are not a close relative of the assassinated emperor they have to endorse the assassination in order to justify their rule. They do this by damning their memory and not formally deifying them which was a norm for deceased emperors. So Tacitus, who is deeply entrenched in Roman political life during the dynasty that followed Domitian is just doing his job as an obedient propagandist when he criticises Domitian.
*OH MY GOD!* You're the guy that wrote Rubicon!!! You are him or he!!! You are that Tom Holland! I got your book back in the mid-2000s as a gift from someone who knew I was a history nut with a special affinity for the Roman Empire, it's one of the few books that I literally read cover to cover! Wow! I never would have figured that one out until just now listening to a reference made by either you or the other fellow whose name I can't quite remember. Sorry I'm kind of new to the podcast but have become an avid listener on TH-cam the past few weeks. Anyway, thanks for writing that book. It's an amazing read!
I often wonder if Tacitus turned a minor skirmish into a major battle. I find it hard to believe that there were 40,000 Caledonians running about with swords and chariots on the slopes of Ben Achie in 84 AD. Its hard to run a Defender 110 over that ground let alone a chariot. Great discussion. Interesting that the Jewish and Boudiccan revolts started in the same year.
Couple a jars of nectar, that’s Irn Bru and you’ll be flying about that mountain never mind driving a poor man’s Range Rover ❤
Ask Red Bull if it gives us wings Ken like haha x
Thank you. I visited Hard Knott fort last year and would recommend it, especially as part of a ramble. Then you appreciate it in full context
Excellent. I loved the Glaswegian (weegie) accent too.
Thankyou, very intimately understood history
Right, enough. both bloody brilliant
"A unitary Britain with access to continental markets is going to boom".
Romans, Romano-Britains and cooperating Britons understood this simple concept in antiquity, but by 2016, British understanding of simple concepts had declined such that this fact was no longer widely known.
I finally made it to one of these!!!
Not enough people talk about how the land in lowland Caledonia was much less fertile then even the land in southern Britannia. That's one of the reasons why the Romans didn't fully conquer.
Sounds like Roman cope
@rory4127 oh yeah mate, the same people that conquered the entire Mediterranean just couldn't conquer small, sparse Caledonia. You wanna talk about guerilla warfare and mountains? The Romans had handled that countless times over the years. The difference was 9/10 times there were resources and good agriculture in the area.
@@Hugh_Morriscope
@@Hugh_MorrisScotland has 280 Munros, over 900 islands, 4.2 million acres of bog land, and over 31,000 lochs (lakes). The Roman’s relied on disciplined infantry formations which was unsuitable for using in the rugged Scottish terrain. The native Caledonians knew their land well so could launch surprise attacks and run away (hit and runs). So yeah, the Romans had it difficult. They tried to literally hunt down the Caledonians and failed. 👍
@xtramail4909 yeah no I get they had it difficult. I'm saying, do you think if they really tried to conquer Caledonia, they wouldn't have been able to? One instance when an Emperor tried to do it, Septimius Severus, he damn near caused a genocide by setting fire across the whole land and killing everything in sight because the Picts wouldn't engage him. But his sons pulled back when he'd died.
The Midges rule Scotland. Always have always will. No man has, can nor ever will defeat the temerous wee beastie. Midges defeated Rome.
Would love to see you guys do a video on Íñigo Arista/Umayyad caliphate of Cordovain or the Risorgimento!
The Romans built a network of towns and cities that were each specialized to a particular need of the economy. They were cogs in the wheel of the economy as a whole. When the Romans left, and the cogs were disconnected from the machine, they failed quickly. They depended on their connection to the Roman economy and could not exist on their own when disconnected.
i have come across this channel, and i love the format, clearly similar to the various political duo discussion formats that are on youtube.. and really makes sense and for those who like the format but need a break from current politics it is refreshing. My question i would ask the channel to consider is what audience you are after? i love the format because of the move from the present political chat, but sometimes find the content a bit too detailed and overwhelming for my limited knowledge of these historical subject. Not a criticism as the presenters are engaging and clearly passionate and knowledgeable.
I get the impression Tacitus liked the British Isles.
Fun fact: Romans did conquer Scotland, but they wouldn’t stop talking about legal tender, so left and erased it from their records because of how annoying they were
Idk, why were we in Afghanistan for 20 years for no reason?
@@mithrandirthegrey7644 umm, I don’t think you understood my comment 😅
@@mithrandirthegrey7644tradition!
@@unbabunga229 I didn't but I fat-fingered my reply and pressed the wrong comment.
The Caledonians insisted on minting their own denarii…
A question that I’ve always wanted answered. An impression I never wanted to hear.
The many references to "the Lowlands" are confusing, since this is a term which normally covers tScotland south of the Great Glen. And the term""Britons" sems to cover both Britons and Picts, without distinction although these were two different peoples.
Romans didn't like the midgies.
Neil Oliver pronounced "Calgacus" differently -with the accent on the middle syllable
Why did the Romans it was necessary to build the Hadrian's wall? Were they so afraid of the Northern shepherds and peasants?
My thoughts exactly English people can mock all they like saying things like Scotland wasn’t worth invading just because the romans took the south what utter rubbish if the Picts were no threat they wouldn’t have built the wall . Those Picts & Gaels latter uniting creating Scotland 🏴
This is an area of history that I am deeply involved with - THANK you both so much for this comprehensive and enlightened piece.
Kilt vs. the subligaculum.
In battle, under the cold, wet skies of Scotland and the borders there's no comparison which is more comfortable, or quicker, whether it's a No.1 or No. 2, the Kilt wins!
Absolutely love the show but I beg you not to do accent impressions again😅
In fairness it was a bad impression of a bad impression. I couldn't decide if it was supposed to be Scottish, Irish or he had a sore throat 😉🏴
It's a recurring feature with them. Usually to my regret
Wait for Tom's Brando.
Agreed. A profound and recurring weakness in an otherwise brilliant show/podcast. I always skip ahead.
I stay in Lanarkshire there is roman roads and forts
Quote of a Pict who spoke Brythonic, in English, written by a Roman in Latin.
Is that 4 legions plus auxiliaries? Christ That's so many troops on that island
The real reason the Romans left was disgust, after a Caledonian deep fried a slice of pizza.
And the Caledonians had better kilts.
😂❤ from Scotland
The so called speech of Calgacus, leader of the northern Britons before the Mons Graupius battle, was nothing of the sort. It is no more than a forensic exercise by Tacitus, imagining the situation faced by the Britons, the sort of exercise the Roman upper classes were trained in from childhood. This presents the Britons as brave & noble opponents. His criticism is of the Roman Senate, subservient to tyrants like Domitian. He is pointing out the great victory of Agricola scored by this battle, with very little spilling of Roman citizen blood; though of course this is a bit disingenuous as it discounts Auxiliary losses who were not citizens.
Tacitus felt that Agricola had been ill used by Domitian in being retired with little acclaim, in order to not outshine the Emperor. Tacitus says that Domitian then negated the achievement of Agricola by almost immediately having the army retreat to the south, giving up most of the lands taken by Agricola.
In the long run the Highlands were to be too difficult for the Romans to hold, not because they couldn't be conquered, but that the continued cost in manpower etc to hold onto them was just not worth it, as there were few benefits to be gained. It was probably seen as sufficient to control the north by long range patrolling from a strong series of defence works to the south. Ultimately this became settled on the Hadrianic Wall line. A brilliant series. Thank you.
They didn't because there were nothing to make it worthy, and the weather wasn't exactly sexy 😂😂
Midges, midges and more midges .
Simon Turney has recently released a historical fiction novel of Agricola....
Want to know where Mons Graupius was? Here's a few clues:
1. Read the account carefully. Pay special attention to the order of events.
2. The 'fort' near Culloden isn't Roman. They didn't get quite that far.
3. 'Mons Graupius' actually translates as 'Lumpy Hills'. Pay attention to scale.
Enjoy the search ;)
Now isn't that interesting...I am Scottish and my take on the cost of energy is to cold acclimatise...to be hardier than the challenge...to turn the heating off and to dare it to knock me off the perch.
Plus ca change, plus c'est le meme chose 😁
Scotland lost in the long-run. By the time the Romans left, a system of roads and transport links across modern day England, as well as foundation of numerous major cities, meant that the south of the Island of Britain had an advantage over the relatively backward North -- and this was confirmed in the period from Aethelstan right up to present day mewings of Alex Salmon & Nicola Sturgeon et al.
Tell me you're a pig ignorant bigot without telling me you're a pig ignorant bigot.
Isn't it likely Mons Graupius is the Grampians?
They didn’t conquer Scotland for the same reason they didn’t conquer the Sahara desert. They got there realised there was nothing there worth having and left it alone.
So did they build a wall in the Sahara ? No . So why build a wall here ? Simple answer to hide behind because they feared the Picts & the Gaels in Scotland which of course didn’t exist at the time but the landmass did as did the people who would eventually unite creating Scotland
If they did not, it was only because of distance, not capability.
God. I couldn't wait for the intoductory monologue to end 🙄.
Didn’t know Romans were in Scotland, when it was Scotland in the 10th century
I always thought it was the midges…
The Romans went into Scotland found nothing worth taking and no one worth taxing and built a wall to mark the norther boundary of the empire.
The wall was to keep out invading Scot’s who the romans couldn’t handle
Surely, even more than the case of Nazi Germany, the Roman Empire had an enormous influence on Mussolini and his Fascist Party - from the adoption of the Fasces as its symbol to the rather desperate pursuit of empire? Worthy of discssion in a future episode?
Why would they want to ? Trade glass beads or bad wine for meat on the hoof.
And yet today it’s Scotland with all the resources. We are a self sufficient nation regarding fuel meanwhile England enjoys Scottish electricity supply
An interesting take on that period of history. However, it was marred for me by several things:
The fake Scottish accent when reading out the speech Tacitus put in Calgacus's mouth was both grating (a mangled mock-Scots-Irish mix) and linguistically anachronistic. Nobody knows exactly what the Pictish language was like, but the people certainly wouldn't have sounded like that.
The pronunciation of Roman names was all over the place. Either stick to the Anglicised versions or use the original Latin pronunciation, but don't mix the two.
The Batavians were not "Germans". That gives an entirely wrong impression of where they came from. They came from around the Rhine delta in what is now the southwest Netherlands. If at all, they could be called Germanic, but not German. These two adjectives are commonly mixed up.
If you've been to Inchtuthil you should know that it is not pronounced "Inch-tut-hill". The correct Scottish pronunciation is more like "Inch-tooth-ull".
Finally, I was disappointed that two presumably serious historians would stoop to petty stereotypical comments like those about midges and "orange" hair.
"Why Rome Couldn't Conquer Scotland?" they ask.
The Romans did. They totally did what they set out to do. Then they walked away.
The Romans had an aversion to cheap shortbread 😅😅😅😊
It is not that they couldn't but that it simply wasn't necessary. Such a conquest offered little benefit and would have cost far more to maintain a physical presence. They could control most of Northern Britons via 'soft power' : creating client kings, through treaties, subsidies and access to trade with the Imperium Romanum. The frontier might be at the Antonine or Hadrian's Wall, but Roman power and influence would go far beyond those walls. If military expeditions were needed they were sent in. Even as late as 297 AD Roman armies were defeating the 'Picti' (the Northern 'barbarous' Britons beyond the frontier as opposed to the Provincial Britons south of the frontier). No, Rome did not gave to conquer the north to control or influence its peoples or their politics.
Wasn't that Hibernia?
Interesting to me to hear about this sort of Roman inferiority complex, where in their time they were yearning for the heroic era perhaps 1000-2000 years prior where the men were "wild," and regarded their civilizing empire as perhaps effete or corrupting etc.
Today, with some irony, there are similar appeals, but back to especially Romans and Roman times, an inferiority complex about empire and civilization itself. That we are effete and corrupt compared to the Romans. Something deep, strange, and a little sinister at times.
Across the classical era there were barbarians in the frontiers and the domesticated civilized people behind walls tending fields etc. But this dynamic between the pastoralists and the agriculturalists goes way back as well into proto indo European times. Then the ebbs and flows of civilizing conquest (just as barbaric?) over barbarians, and then the integration and civilizing of the barbarian outsiders. Today, now that the world is more or less conquered by civilization, the barbarians are inside the walls with this resentment and inferiority complex, wanting to recapture the fabled past instead of embracing the realities of our time; yearning for collapse and fire on the fields.
What utter nonsense. Be "real men" today, now, stand for what we have inherited and achieved, and march forward. Slitting proverbial throats and bathing in blood won't achieve anything, these aren't Roman times and these aren't heroic times. Man up and seize our day and uphold our values that it took millennia to forge. Equality, egality, fraternity; liberty, justice for ALL.
Imagine in a thousand years whatever becomes of our descendants, what will they aspire and yearn for that we have today? Will they be right to do so? Or will they have their own worries and civilizational complexes that haunt them like the past?
The Romans could have conquered Scotland, just like they could have conquered Germany, however there were either bigger fish to fry (Agricola and Domitian) or it was treated as a glory playground such as by Antonius Pius and Septimus Severus. In the latter case, it was Septimus' death that saved the Scots as his son's, much like Marcus Aurelius' (in the marcomannic wars) son, were uninterested in the venture. Likewise in the case of Germany the main driver Augustus died and his stepson Tiberius who had campaigned in Germany knew it was not worth the cost .
They literally tried to conquer both Germany and Scotland. Claiming they didn’t because it wasn’t worth it is cope, otherwise they wouldn’t have tried.
@@BellBeakerBlokeexactly & they built the wall to hide behind & keep out the Picts & the Gaels . Why are arrogant English people saying Scotland wasn’t worth it is sour grapes on their part
There was nothing to gain.
A lot like Afghanistan. No one gives AF on those lands
Rubbish . They came they tried but they couldn’t conquer Scotland 🏴 so they built a big wall to cower behind.
Why would they want to?
@@davesmad4646 You just have to insult Scotland and the Scots, don't you? Little Englander...
Attack Force Z also good Mel Gibson film.
oh it's supposed to be a Scottish accent, only took me 15 seconds or so.
No army can conquer the Midges…
It couldn't conquer Scotland because it didn't exist 😊
The landmass is still the same & the people who were different tribes the Gaels & the Picts united creating Scotland 🏴
Russia was saved by General Winter when invaded by Napoleon and Hitler , Scotland was saved by 4 Generals: Snow, Rain, Wind, Cold , Romans came from a Meditaranian Climate and Scotland was furthest north they ever went, when they retired to Hadrian's Wall the Roman Soldiers sent home to be sent heavy underwear cos of the cold even at Hadrian's Wall
That’s misinformation. The couldn’t defeat the Scottish tribes of Gaels & Picts trying to claim the weather beat them is laughable.
Give it a break. Rome didn't conquer Scotland because the Picts were powerful. They didn't conquer Scotland because there was nothing worth spending money on a military campaign to do so.
They didn’t because they couldn’t & they feared the Picts & the Gaels & other clans / tribes who would eventually unite creating Scotland before England even existed. Hence the wall to hide behind.
Couldn't or didn't want to? What had the Pict got that the Romans wanted?
Land & slaves goes without saying & you claiming otherwise is just sour grapes because the Scottish tribes back then were hard as fuk
People are a commodity nothing changes
@@Parker_Douglas What land? Mountains? Slaves can be got by raiding. You don't need to occupy it. Indeed, it was probably easier to slave outside the empire than within it.
Tacitus, like Israel, didn't lament Empire for the 1/4 of the population destroyed or enslaved. He lamented it, again like Israel, it made them less capable of mass murder in the long run.
The Scots had cats!
they weren’t keen on the weather and food?
The women were too rough ?
That hasn't changed anyway...
Soggy sandals.
Only real men like their wumin big and hairy.
Especially the deep fried Mars bars
They couldn’t hack the midges
It was the deep fried dormouse that finally drove them off.
Ninth legion, what's the evidence?
Why didn't they conquer Ireland..was it diplomatic as scota was supposed to be a Ptolemy
I can sum up in one word why Romans didn't conquer Scotland.
Midges.
Excellent podcast. Had to turn off video though-Dominic needs to buttin his shirt or wear a pullover.
They did conquer Scotland and then abandoned it.
There were no cities, no commercial network, no valuable raw materials, no agriculture... Not worth the effort
Pict-chicks are hot, don’t know what you are on about son.
The Romans seem to me to be not unlike modern day Americans.
Winston Wallace