Excellent stuff. One stop off for the time machine would have to be the Great Harbour in it's heyday. The land forces of Carthage were almost exclusively mercenary, but I think the naval forces were citizens which might indicate where their priorities lay.
Please finish the series on 1973 to 1974. As an American, I’ve always found parliamentary government very interesting and dynamic. I find the years that lead up to Margaret Thatcher very obscure, and would love to hear more about the political changes that led to her coming into power. in fact, an entire series on Thatcher and the Thatcher years would be fascinating. If there was ever a woman who broke the glass ceiling, it was Margaret Thatcher.
@docleegb check this out with you podcast app, last time I checked they hadn't uploaded the full 1970s series to TH-cam for some reason. But agreed it was great, so funny, and as a Brit so depressing to see how history is repeating itself in the 2020s
Well it certainly ain't going to be China or Germany who takes the spot (according to his gospel) :D on a more serious note: how does that make sense considering his by now month-long {country} after America-series?
Frankly what happened to Carthage happened not only to many other cities but even reigns and it was pretty common for sieges which lasted years . For example at Hymera (in Sicily ) and Saguntum , Carthage did the same . Romans did way worse in Gaul and especially Dacia (where basically Romans did ethnically cleaning and substitution ) . Reality is , as Cato the elder said the first time he pronounced the well known " Carthago delenda est " , Carthage was so near to Rome that a ficus could be transported from one city to another while remaining edible . As already Greek understood (for information ask to Thucydides ) a power will never tolerate the existence of another power near enough to threaten him . About the Bias I fear you are partly wrong too . Actually Romans in their scripts basically glorified Hannibal as a general and as a soldier even Livy , which more than an historian was a propagandist , arrived to compare him to Alexander the Great (which basically was to be compared to the god of war ) . Naturally Romans hated Hannibal (and basically invented every kind of degeneration of his morals ) but never doubted his capabilities . About Cleopatra , it could be said the same too . If we know that she was able to speak many languages , that she was erudite etc we know that tnx to Romans . leaving aside the folklore thing (the witchcraft ) , she had a son from a man different from her husband (actually had at least 3 husbands ) and organized the murders of many family members (brothers/spouses and sisters included ) .Even if morals couldn't be applied to different times , I don't think Cleopatra then or now would be considered a good person . That said , one of the reasons punics weren't so loved was that actually they had pretty much the same attitude as Romans . They were bossy , the were willing to suffer absurd human and material losses in order to win but above all they signed peace treaties when in difficulty only to show themselves stronger than before short after (this happened both in Sicilian wars and punic wars )..
If you'd like to know more about these events and places, L. Sprague de Camp wrote "Great Cities of the Ancient World." It features illustrations, maps, descriptions, and histories of Carthage, Syracuse, Athens and Alexandria, among other cities. Recommended.
I know nothing about the bible, and I am not a Christian. I listened to a discussion about the massacre of the Canaanites (Alex O'Connor v William Lane Craig). Craig tried to make the case that the Canaanites had it coming to them for having such vile practices, including child sacrifice. I found out separately that the Phoenicians were part (at least) of the population of Canaan. And I was also dimly aware that the Carthaginians practiced child sacrifice. Is it generally understood that the Phoenicians and Carthaginians had the same gods, had similar rituals?
Africa historically is the Roman given name to Tunisia only (Plus Eastern Algeria and Western Libya) with the same population (more or less). Mediterranean type of people. Punic Carthaginian+ Berbers=Moors=Numidians=ancient Libyans all were and still Mediterranean type of people. Tunisia and Tunisians were known exclusively as Africa and Africans (Reminder Mediterranean type of people) since antiquity up until the fall of the Hafsid dynasty in the 16th century. Just after that the name Africa has been applied to the rest of the continent. One side note: There were other Punic settlements all over Tunisia such as Utica. Many of these cities allied with Rome and defeated Carthage the ‘city’ as not the landmass/the empire. The Punic populations of these cities were rewarded by Rome and incorporated into the Roman system. Also, the Punic language survived/surpassed the Arab conquest of Tunisia. One theory to why Tunisians embraced Arabic language quickly as that they were (big portion) Punic/Phoenician speaking population which is a Semitic branch close to Arabic. While the Latin speaking population were minority and the Berber speaking population were nomads and lived in the fringes. I believe St Augustine spoke some sort of Latin/Berber mix and he recorded the Punic speaking population!!
How does a naval power like Carthage remain unmentioned in the Peloponnesian conflicts? They had to have picked a side, no? (most likely the side of the land-locked power to weaken a rival "marine-corps") And their golden age is supposed to be at the same time as well? How could that be?
As far as I'm aware they weren't ever militarily involved, but looking it up briefly they apparently were asked for aid in some of the fighting in Sicily but refused. I think it probably would've made very little difference from a Carthaginian perspective who was in charge in Greece, as long as the trade didn't stop.
And yet the Carthaginians practiced child sacrifice. Why couldn’t this legitimately be repugnant to Hellenic sensibilities? Tyre appealed to Carthage for aid when under siege from Alexander. Who says the Phoenician people didn’t exist. What are you talking about?
I love your podcast and learn so much, however sometimes, it feels like you have to know a lot already about a subject to understand the complex stories and the humour. It depends who you are aiming your podcast at I suppose. I’m a history fan and moderately knowledgable but in this instance, I don’t know so much and I was left a little lost. It’s just a point but I know you can’t cover everything for everyone. I still love the podcast and it happens with most podcasts at times.
I have a feeling people are going to be pissed about this episode. How dare you say that the Carthaginians weren’t African! YOU RACIST! Unfortunately that’s what happened here in America. Doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. Great episode tho
Btw Blk Africans moved into North Africa and outside of Africa. Don't act like only LIGHT SKINNED PEOPLE can move to different places around the world.
![[Full] 4 ต่อ 4 Celebrity EP.922 | 10 พ.ย. 67 | one31](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zmV5HRIxIBI/mqdefault.jpg)
SO happy you guys are posting to TH-cam again! Keep it up!
Excellent stuff.
One stop off for the time machine would have to be the Great Harbour in it's heyday.
The land forces of Carthage were almost exclusively mercenary, but I think the naval forces were citizens which might indicate where their priorities lay.
Thank you for all of your work on this TH-cam channel. I enjoyed I quite a bit.
Love you guys!!!
Please finish the series on 1973 to 1974. As an American, I’ve always found parliamentary government very interesting and dynamic. I find the years that lead up to Margaret Thatcher very obscure, and would love to hear more about the political changes that led to her coming into power. in fact, an entire series on Thatcher and the Thatcher years would be fascinating. If there was ever a woman who broke the glass ceiling, it was Margaret Thatcher.
The ‘Glass Ceiling’ is very much a natural phenomenon. We are, after all, animals at our core, and nothing will ever change that.
@docleegb check this out with you podcast app, last time I checked they hadn't uploaded the full 1970s series to TH-cam for some reason. But agreed it was great, so funny, and as a Brit so depressing to see how history is repeating itself in the 2020s
Technical issues mean the final podcast on 1973/1974 isn't available on TH-cam.
I found it on the podcast!! Awesome, thanks.
Stunning
Scipio talking about a unipolar world… the Peter Zeihan of antiquity
Well it certainly ain't going to be China or Germany who takes the spot (according to his gospel) :D
on a more serious note: how does that make sense considering his by now month-long {country} after America-series?
😂😂😂thank you both for that!
Crikey…👏👏
The nickname for OM is the les phocéens, so, the phoceans.
Dominic Sandbrook is a legend
This is great apart for the adverts for tampax
Is the text quoted in the opening from Polybius himself ? Thanks in advance. Love the podcast.
It was yes, translated into English of course
Frankly what happened to Carthage happened not only to many other cities but even reigns and it was pretty common for sieges which lasted years . For example at Hymera (in Sicily ) and Saguntum , Carthage did the same . Romans did way worse in Gaul and especially Dacia (where basically Romans did ethnically cleaning and substitution ) . Reality is , as Cato the elder said the first time he pronounced the well known " Carthago delenda est " , Carthage was so near to Rome that a ficus could be transported from one city to another while remaining edible . As already Greek understood (for information ask to Thucydides ) a power will never tolerate the existence of another power near enough to threaten him . About the Bias I fear you are partly wrong too . Actually Romans in their scripts basically glorified Hannibal as a general and as a soldier even Livy , which more than an historian was a propagandist , arrived to compare him to Alexander the Great (which basically was to be compared to the god of war ) . Naturally Romans hated Hannibal (and basically invented every kind of degeneration of his morals ) but never doubted his capabilities . About Cleopatra , it could be said the same too . If we know that she was able to speak many languages , that she was erudite etc we know that tnx to Romans . leaving aside the folklore thing (the witchcraft ) , she had a son from a man different from her husband (actually had at least 3 husbands ) and organized the murders of many family members (brothers/spouses and sisters included ) .Even if morals couldn't be applied to different times , I don't think Cleopatra then or now would be considered a good person . That said , one of the reasons punics weren't so loved was that actually they had pretty much the same attitude as Romans . They were bossy , the were willing to suffer absurd human and material losses in order to win but above all they signed peace treaties when in difficulty only to show themselves stronger than before short after (this happened both in Sicilian wars and punic wars )..
Hi what was the book you were reading from in the beginning of the video? Thank you!
Fantastic! Can u guys do one about the Barbary slave trade and Thomas Pellow?
44:15 hold on a second
Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa....
The host just picked his nose. Is this some Carthage Ian gang sign?
I think Olympique de Marseille are called the Phocaeans, the Greek people whom Tom described, and not the Phoenicians.
Correct founded circa 600bc by the Phoceans....i think the pirates Tom talks about went on to found Velia 50 or so years later....
Yeah I had looked that up and it seems so to be.
If you'd like to know more about these events and places, L. Sprague de Camp wrote "Great Cities of the Ancient World." It features illustrations, maps, descriptions, and histories of Carthage, Syracuse, Athens and Alexandria, among other cities. Recommended.
Isnt that the guy who wrote Conan stories? Was he a historian too?
At this point, and speaking as a great admirer of Carthage, who did _not_ hate Carthage besides Rome?
I know nothing about the bible, and I am not a Christian. I listened to a discussion about the massacre of the Canaanites (Alex O'Connor v William Lane Craig). Craig tried to make the case that the Canaanites had it coming to them for having such vile practices, including child sacrifice. I found out separately that the Phoenicians were part (at least) of the population of Canaan. And I was also dimly aware that the Carthaginians practiced child sacrifice.
Is it generally understood that the Phoenicians and Carthaginians had the same gods, had similar rituals?
Africa historically is the Roman given name to Tunisia only (Plus Eastern Algeria and Western Libya) with the same population (more or less). Mediterranean type of people. Punic Carthaginian+ Berbers=Moors=Numidians=ancient Libyans all were and still Mediterranean type of people.
Tunisia and Tunisians were known exclusively as Africa and Africans (Reminder Mediterranean type of people) since antiquity up until the fall of the Hafsid dynasty in the 16th century. Just after that the name Africa has been applied to the rest of the continent.
One side note: There were other Punic settlements all over Tunisia such as Utica. Many of these cities allied with Rome and defeated Carthage the ‘city’ as not the landmass/the empire.
The Punic populations of these cities were rewarded by Rome and incorporated into the Roman system. Also, the Punic language survived/surpassed the Arab conquest of Tunisia.
One theory to why Tunisians embraced Arabic language quickly as that they were (big portion) Punic/Phoenician speaking population which is a Semitic branch close to Arabic.
While the Latin speaking population were minority and the Berber speaking population were nomads and lived in the fringes. I believe St Augustine spoke some sort of Latin/Berber mix and he recorded the Punic speaking population!!
How does a naval power like Carthage remain unmentioned in the Peloponnesian conflicts?
They had to have picked a side, no? (most likely the side of the land-locked power to weaken a rival "marine-corps")
And their golden age is supposed to be at the same time as well? How could that be?
As far as I'm aware they weren't ever militarily involved, but looking it up briefly they apparently were asked for aid in some of the fighting in Sicily but refused. I think it probably would've made very little difference from a Carthaginian perspective who was in charge in Greece, as long as the trade didn't stop.
Just imagine how they would've gone if they didn't set ablaze everything of value.
And yet the Carthaginians practiced child sacrifice. Why couldn’t this legitimately be repugnant to Hellenic sensibilities? Tyre appealed to Carthage for aid when under siege from Alexander. Who says the Phoenician people didn’t exist. What are you talking about?
Irish and phonecians certainly have a connection.. red hair came from the levant before there were Arabs
Gt stuff men!
I didn't know you were baldy
I love your podcast and learn so much, however sometimes, it feels like you have to know a lot already about a subject to understand the complex stories and the humour.
It depends who you are aiming your podcast at I suppose. I’m a history fan and moderately knowledgable but in this instance, I don’t know so much and I was left a little lost.
It’s just a point but I know you can’t cover everything for everyone.
I still love the podcast and it happens with most podcasts at times.
Canaanite, Phoenician, Carthaginian, Israelites are all Semitic peoples. Spartans, Athenians, Etruscans, Romans were all white European tribes.
No such thing as Israelites.
Good show. Pathetic that American historians are known for their obsession with DEI-ing history.
The American historians you don't name. Or quote. Or have read
Why cant we say the people of Cathage were Levantine people they were not black africans. Is it that difficult
FFS, get rid of those auto-tracking camera mounts.
*We can't rule out Aristotle 'pulling a Tucker Carlsen' when rating Carthage highly..Did they have shopping trolley escalators per chance?
Hardly Romes nemesis. more like the opposite
Dan Brown is a clown
I have a feeling people are going to be pissed about this episode. How dare you say that the Carthaginians weren’t African! YOU RACIST! Unfortunately that’s what happened here in America. Doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. Great episode tho
Good news is that there are real people to debate with when you run out of imaginary ones
i love how this American discourse over Carthage and egypt completely ignores the berber’s and Numidians like they don’t exist.
Btw Blk Africans moved into North Africa and outside of Africa. Don't act like only LIGHT SKINNED PEOPLE can move to different places around the world.
uga buga?
no they didn’t, only individually, never migratory.