@@redneck4528 This wasn't a small car, it was on the big side. In Europe, pretty huge size wise. wealthy family or official gob. car style. Same platform as the Lancia Thema. Saab 9000 also used this platform, ...but I remember ppl used to talk about the fact that Saab was reinforced and a bit heavier because originally it wasn't up to their standards.
That client really is a man of good taste. The 164 has such a simple and pure design, it just looks good from any angle, is not something that sets the world of fire, more of an understated beauty. Really nice car.
Good looking, great driving car with good air conditioning. I’ve had many Alfas since 1980 including a white 1991 164s. That said, the 164 always had a warning light on for something, usually erroneous and maintenance was a nightmare. Just about had to rotate engine on its side to remove rear head and the starter has never been seen by man. Infamous stepper motor for the a/c
Love that you show everything you are talking about. When you talk timing belt, you show the details and of course the underneath of the car. Many others just talk about it and never show what they are talking about and that’s one of the reasons I’ve been following you since the beginning. Great job as always.
The 230 HP version is a QV model (=Cloverleaf). the one is Shown isn't. I own a 93' 2nd gen with the updated headlights and digital climate control, Euro spec. spent about a year restoring it (and still have more work). This is indeed a cool car and I am very happy you got to show one on the channel ^_^
The QV was a 200HP version with front wheel drive only.. the Q4 came later on in 1993 and had a 231 HP modified V6 with 4 wheel drive, thus the 4 behind the Q instead of the V.
The Alfa 164 is the most beautiful berlina ever made. You are absolutely right, the car is from a warm climate state. I visited ths USA several time, NY state, California, Florida and I have always seen one.
Pizza is a southern italian dish (Naples), Alfa Romeo is a northern italian car (Milan). Same country, but very very different cultures. So Pizza and Alfa don't have much of a corellation.
The Alfa 164 was part of the “type 4” project between Saab, Alfa Romeo, Lancia and Fiat, with the Saab 9000, Alfa 164, Lancia Thema & Fiat Croma all sharing the same platform. The Thema 8.32 even had a Ferrari V8.
@@rafsport7702 it wasn't the idea of Fiat to make the 164 FWD. Type 4 platform sharing program had Fiat's own Croma in it. The agreement of the program was signed in late 70s. Fiat didn't own AR back then
I had 164 twinspark in early nineties. One of best cars ever. Fast, reliable… had it for seven years and never ever any troubles. Still elegant, sporty…
I love 164s, definitely best Alfa Romeo ever made. That quality, testing and state of the art manufacturing plant. Could only recommend finding "164 promo video" here on youtube. Really nice period footage. As for this car, it is actually pre-facelift model with old style 12 valve engine - dual SOHC. Other than timing belt failure due to poor maintainance there are no major issues with these engines and they are really solid and suprisingly economical. Just maintain belt, check valve clearances and change engine oil every 6000 miles or so. These cars are really easy to work on if you have lift. You could just drop whole subframe with engine, gearbox, radiators, steering, suspension... just everything there is and once you pull it off, it is really easy to service just everything and then it should last at least 60000miles. In Europe there also 2.0 Twin Spark 4 cylinder was also an option. With that engine (has timing chain) this car is absolute pinnacle of reliability. Biggest pain in the ass on these cars are those pesky climate control stepper motors. Those are really hard to replace (videotutorial also here on youtube). Also nowadays spare parts for 164s are hard to come by. Yes, it was developed by Alfa Romeo before it was bought by Fiat and yes, it shares some of components with Croma/Tempra/Thema/Saab 9000, but really not that many. 164 has different front suspension, slightly modified rear suspension, completely different bodywork and interior... and there was only 260 thousands of these manufactured and they are really not that popular. Well kept and preserved 164 is something every petrolhead should consider to buy. It was last true Alfa and they were doing their best, because this car was ment to save them. Unfortunatelly Alfa went bankrupt and its revival still is not that great as Fiat promised.
The 164 was part of the Tipo 4 project that also included the Lancia Thema, Fiat Thema and Saab 9000. The Lancia, Fiat and Saab are Italdesign designed cars. The 164 was the exception with its Pininfarina design. The 164 looks a lot like Peugeot's slightly larger 605, a Pininfarina design also. The 605 shares its platform with the Citroën XM (design by Bertone). Of all these cars I think the US only got the 164 and of course the 9000.
@@altergreenhorn the V6 is known as the baby Dino as it was used in the ferrari Dino although the alfa versions had less power due to cams and lower compression and not tuned but still a great engine .
The first car i ever drove after getting my drivers license, was my mum's 1994 Alfa 164 3.0 v6 super. It was completely murdered out and looked like the sorta car the italian mob would have been driving in the mid 90's. Absolutely loved that car.
This is why you are my favorite car show, these 164 were very popular in Argentina in the 90s, the 164 Q4 Was the One to have :) About design, check out the Citroen XM, another icon of that time
Beautiful car, i really appreciate people keeping those old cars in good condition and running. Even old they still make perfectly fine daily drivers, the lack of all the modern gizmos might even make them more enjoyable as they naturally provide a more raw/unfiltered experience.
I’ve owned 7 Alfa’s in the U.K. they were the best cars I’ve ever owned, this 164 is in amazing condition 👍 and amazed it’s here in the states . Passion and soul only the Italians manage this !
I had a 91 164L Manual in Canada it was a great car with great parts availability and easy to work on. I had it lowerd on borbet wheels and it would absolutely break necks out of pure confusion. I'd love to find a reasonably priced 164s some day
That rear subframe corrodes eventually in Europe (after about 30 years), and they are unobtainium. A friend of mine has just remanufactured his 164 rear subframe and had it galvanised. The 164 was galvanised up to the waist at manufacture and its a really well made car by any standards. Better than todays Alfas I'm sad to say. If you stay ahead of the maintainance a 164 is reliable. Look after it and it will look after you.
@@riverrock7169 They still don't last forever in areas where salt is used on roads in winter. The UK is notorious for rusting even the best protected cars.
I had a red 91 164. 320,000 miles on it! The car was excellent, and never left me stranded. I did change out the timing belt once a year, and converted it back to the original oil fed tensioner.
I’ll second the above comment. All 1991 - ‘93 versions of the 164 exported to the U.S. used Alfa-Romeo’s SOHC V6 with 2 valves per cylinder. U.S.-spec 164 models received a DOHC/24-valve version of the same basic engine for 1994 - ‘95. I’ve very fond memories of a white ‘91 164 5-speed I enjoyed as my daily driver twenty or so years ago.
My very first car was a facelift 1993 164 Super 24v, loved it. My dad bought a 1993 QV 24v with a Remus back box, to this day still the best sounding 6 cylinder engine I know.
I love these Alfas, I owned one of these limos until my son unfortunately wrote t off. I can say having owned over 20 cars this is the best car I have ever had the pleasure of owning.
Here's something that I really love about what Mr and Mrs wizard are doing with these videos. Like he stated for some customers who get shocked by 15 different things that come turn out to be wrong with their car and they feel like they're getting bamboozled. With a professional mechanic putting up a public video like this of their findings as they're doing their inspection it removes the mystique and mystery that good old boy mechanics have put into their process in order to cheat the customer.
I owned a '95 new back in '95. It was a terrific car. The only negative was the turning radius. I currently own the new Stelvio, its fantastic too. No issues on any of the 5 Alfa Romeo's I've owned.
So glad you reviewed an Alfa Romeo Wizard! Hopefully we'll see a few more, although it is a real shame how few of them were actually available in the US
A buddy of mine had one of these in red when I was living in Europe back in the 90's. He was always picking up the hot chicks with it LOL. Definitely ahead of it's time for styling but that Italian build quality left a lot to be desired. I can imagine the nightmare of keeping one of these 90's Italian cars on the road today.
Thank you for this video and hello from Germany. I owned two 164s - however these were the old 12 valve motors not the 24V. I loved this car - the design, the style and the sound of the motor. It was wonderful. The 164 european version from 1991 did not even have airbags but that did not matter. The car was very light for its size and its competitor on the autobahn was the BMW 525. The BMW had more power but was heavier. You could go (stick shift) from 5th to 4th gear at 170 km/h to gain some extra momentum to accelerate if you were careful with the clutch. At the same time you could drive the car as a relaxed long distance cruiser if you wanted. I loved my alfa - sometimes I feel that I want to buy an old, used one. However these are difficult to find nowadays and spare part suppy is very problematic.
Saab 9000 share the same chassi as this beauty. The Type Four chassis was a shared front wheel drive platform used in the 1980s and 1990s for the Saab 9000, Fiat Croma, Lancia Thema and Alfa Romeo 164. It emerged as an agreement between the four carmakers in October 1978 to reduce development costs on new top-of-the-range saloons, although it would be another six to nine years before the cars were launched. It was front-wheel drive, with optional four-wheel drive, and used a 4-wheel independent MacPherson strut suspension, except on the Saab. The Saab and Lancia versions were the first cars to be launched in 1984, with the Fiat debuting a year later, and the line-up being completed in 1987 with the arrival of the Alfa Romeo. The Fiat and Lancia looked much like the Saab, but the Alfa Romeo only shared the chassis. The wheelbase is 2.67 m (105 inches) on all models. The Saab and Fiat were launched as five-door hatchbacks and the Alfa Romeo and Lancia sold as four-door saloons. Lancia added the only Type Four estate in 1986 and Saab eventually added a saloon version of the 9000 in 1988.
Great engine, I had 2 of these both 12v and the 24v version. On the 164 change the cam belt hydraulic tensioner to a mechanical fiat one. Door handles snap all the time. Steering racks are prone to leaking. Electric seat motors get stuck. Inside door handles internal mec comes apart easy. The fork disengage from the mechanism inside the door. Buso engine parts are now hard to get and expensive. This car has something special about it. I loved mine.
Always loved the Type 4 chassis. The 164, Saab 9000 were the ones I wanted but the one I craved was the Lancia Thema with the Ferrari V8. Made such a lovely noise.
I certainly did not expect to see the 164 on your channel. It is great to see you appreciate these cars. The 1991 model does still have the 12 valve V6 engine though. Mine is a 1991 model, too. Keep up the great work, your channel is incredible!
Love that car. The facelift 164 Super is even nicer to look at. Have had the pleasure of driving one over some years - I never forget the sound of the engine (3.0 24v) and simply the character of the car. Just amazing!
This is why I like boldly designed cars. They look outdated after 4-5 years, but then after some time, they start looking cool again and represent the age when they were made. My 190 Mercedes looks dull inside, but Fiat Tempra looks just like someone who worked on Star Trek TNG designed it. This Alfa interior is a good example as well.
@@adelkheir I linked a car in second post but youtube doesnt like links and its deleted, I tried again, but yeah, digital one. Imagine seeing that new in early 90s. If the link doesnt work again you can see an example on wikipedia. I was pleasantly surprised when a friend of mine got a tempra for 1k euro few years back how cool it was
@@Biskawow Well I drive a Tempra which happens to also be the one which I have learned to drive in and to fix and spend money on it but it's the one with the analogue one with electronic climate control and front electric windows. I also drive a w123 Merc which both happen to belong to my late Father and I can tell you with certainty that regardless of both of their interior design the dash of the merc is so much better bolted in there you rareley if ever hear any rattling in there even when I hit a particularly nasty pothole. But run even on the smallest pebble in the Tempra and the the whole cluster just gets a panic attack. Also to change a bulb in the cluster you have to remove the whole dash because it's a two piece design with the upper one holding the three vents on the left and the dash and the center storage and the cluster and THEN unscrew the cluster from the back just to get to the bulbs 😂. Oh and this applies to the digital dash as well. Doesn't mean I'm ever getting rid of it though.
Damn...my dad had many Alfa's over the years loved every one of them...they had a massive following out here in South Africa due to their track racing and rallying exploits..will never forget my dad's GTV6 2.5
I had an Alfa Romeo that looked almost exactly like that one except mine had tan and black interior. It was a great car! It sounded great, drove great and was a great daily driver for years!
I have always loved the 164. I owned three Alfas in my driving career and have nothing but great memories of a car that becomes a part of you the driver!
@@sotirisbakaimis3276 The statistics don't really lie. There were always far more defects and design flaws than average but doesn't mean individual cars won't be perfectly reliable
Great video Car Wizzard! 😀 As many mentioned, this is the 12v 180hp Busso. Worth mentioning is that when the 164 had its realese in -87 it beated the Rolls Royce/Bentley in sound comfort in the back seat, it had both lower levels of road- and wind noise. It also got an re-design of the front suspension to get a lower hood line then the othet three cars (SAAB 9000, Fiat Croma and Lancia Thema) in the Tipo 4 familly.
The Alfa 164 is one of THE most favorite Alfas ever to me alongside the 155 especially if it was equipped with the 4wd q4 model, which I'm hearing that they've started importing them to the states. I honestly love 90s Italian regual cars in general from the Fiat Tempra to the Lancia Dedra and beyond.
Here in Italy 164 are pretty common and cheap, mostly used as a beater by old people that bought them back in old days. If so many 164 are still running, they weren’t so bad, even if not a MB.
First of all, congratulations for the nice video, Wizard! I am Italian and know Alfa Romeo brand and particularly, the 164. I use to see plenty of them on the road when I was a child between the end of the 80s and the early 90s. My uncle owned a 164 2 litres V6 turbo. I used to travel on that car once only and remember it was so elegant and sporty at the same time. The acceleration and speed of that car also impressed me. I've been so pleased to see this wonderful Alfa Romeo after so long. Take care of it and make it a great "Alfa" again! I'm looking forward to your next video clip. See you soon! Ciao! 🙂👍🏻
These were really good cars. I bought one in 2001 for only $3k and used it to commute to work 60 miles round trip M-F for a full year. It never failed me. Things like power accessory switches weren't so great and needed cleaning and there were some other inconvenience items, but the engine is bulletproof as long as you take care of the timing belts. Good luck finding parts...
I have a stunning 1991 164 S with 85,000 miles....about to do front and rear engine seals, clutch, timing belt, tensioner, water pump, fuel pump and assorted gaskets and hoses and then ready to roll....
I saw a green one of these in Carmal CA several months ago ! I was so surprised I totally stopped and got out and took a bunch of pictures lol. Carmel and monterey really is the absolute best place to car spot even all year long not just during car week!
When these were new we had a regular customer that had the manual version performance version of this with the same chromed intake runners on the motor. Was a pleasure picking up and delivering the car. I remember the driving position being a bit odd but the rest was on point!
When you said, when a person see it in their mirror there is no question who makes it. First it be in your mirror as it was passing you. You do not measure speed of an Alfa in quarter mile. When you are cruising at 140 + on vacation, you know you have a great car. I have owned and raced Alfa, my 4 cylinder cruised at 130 +. Love Alfa.
Agreed, I too love the styling of the Alfa Romeo 164L. They had one a while back on Wheeler Dealers, and the mechanic Ant Anstead called it "an Italian taxicab" so I guess they were quite a common site on Italian streets back in the '90s. No Alfa could ever be described as "common" in the US, though.
Had an opportunity to drive one of these several years ago and was amazed at how effortless and stable it drove while maintaining speeds of 85mph (110 seemed to be a sweet-spot.) Truly a fun but unappreciated Italian sedan. Thanks for featuring it!
I think it was imported. They used to be everywhere in europe like 10 years ago and now they just disappeared, other alfas from the same period too, it's a shame.
They really are disappeared in no time! Only 128 164’s are registered in the Netherlands and insured. 185 are not insured, so also not allowed on the public road. Pretty rare car nowadays. Especially in white! Only 6 white 164’s here in the Netherlands, but only one! Is insured! (In the Netherlands you have to insure your car if it’s standing on the public road, no insurance, is no driving Whatsoever)
alfa romeo is genesis quote of jeremy clarckson. Great brand Enzo Ferrari used to work for them for a long time. Ferrari actually cried when he beat alfa romeo in racing for the 1 st time. In europe we had a qv version with 4w drive not shure if the us had this model on sale. the alfa V6 was called a busso engine, this one was produced up untill the 2010. In its final evolution it had been upgraded to 3.2 litre 24v an produced 260 hp. the alfa V6 was made in 2l turbo 12v, V6 2.5 l. 24v and 3 litre 12v and 3 litre 24 v. The 164 was designed by pininfarina.there is even a prototype with a V 10 engine in the alfa romeo museum (italy)
Would be cool to see a decent Saab 9000, even an Aero, in the Wizards shop. Unfortunately, doubt there were many in Kansas. I owned 3 9000's, the last being a 1995 9000 Aero. Absolutely awesome, loved SAAB's til they went out of business. Also had a 1983 900T, 1997 900s convertible, 2001 9-5 and a 2003 9-3.
Gimme an Alfa 75 with the 3.0 lt V6 up front & stickshift transaxle in the rear....close to 50/50 weight distribution .....that's a REAL Alfa Romero 🔥👅😈
I had almost bought one of these as my second car. Had the online post for the car bookmarked and was waiting for the price to drop enough, it started at like 9k and dropped to like 5, and I decided to go look at it and most likely buy it. It was sold sight unseen to a guy multiple states a way 2 hours before I reached the lot it was being sold at. I actually screamed in the parking lot. Not proud of that, lol.
Those were the 1980's-1990's Italian business man car. This is probably the last great full size Alfa Romeo sedan and shared its bones with the FIAT Croma, The Lancia Thema and the SAAB 9000, even if it does not show. Untill few years ago you saw some of them still on the road in Italy. Sad I didn't see one in years.
Let me tell you, timing belt job on one of these is a pain in the rear. These cars a such a blast to drive, tons of torque and the s models sport suspension is a perfect balance of handling and ride quality. Side note, do not lift from those pegs with a normal floor jack, the side loading will cause them to collapse, ask me how I know
I had one of these (after a long line of Alfas) and it was brilliant. Didn't have the issues the older ones had (in particular the corrosion). It was the first sign that Alfa Romeo had turned a corner in the quality game and they finally started building (relatively) good quality cars. Alfa were always brilliant driving machines, just the quality is where they were letting us down.
I live in New Hampshire, I see these quite frequently oddly enough. It's actually the same platform that was used for the Saab 9000. One of my favorite car as ever.
Lease a Giulia Ti Sport and buy a 164S. Best of both, unless you can afford a Giulia Quadrifolio! I live driving my 93 164S (12 V) and planning on leasing a Giulia...
Having driven only Italian cars throughout my life I can report that if you have ANY doubt regarding condition of the floorpan these pegs for the lift arms aren't the best point to put your jack. In a 10+ year old car that hasn't been parked in a garage or experienced winter driving they will push the floor inside . The lower wishbone joints make for a much safer jacking point.
I really like the design of the 164, whenever i see them here in Finland which is quite rare, i cant take my eyes off of it. I own a Peugeot 605 which has extremely similar design, and getting to park it next to a 164 was awesome.
Seeing an American car guy appreciating an old Alfa. Huge respect!
I'm surprised David can fit his fat belly behind the steering wheel.
⊙⊙ Alpha ROMERO LOL ♡♡
@@redneck4528 This wasn't a small car, it was on the big side. In Europe, pretty huge size wise. wealthy family or official gob. car style.
Same platform as the Lancia Thema.
Saab 9000 also used this platform, ...but I remember ppl used to talk about the fact that Saab was reinforced and a bit heavier because originally it wasn't up to their standards.
Car Wizard is more of a Euro car guy
@@chemapc don't forget the Fiat Croma. It had the same platform
As an Alfa driver in the EU i love you guys overseas showing love for the brand!
When you have owned a Alfa Romeo you know what's up.
I have always told people Alfas have 'soul', but then so does most Italian cars!
That client really is a man of good taste. The 164 has such a simple and pure design, it just looks good from any angle, is not something that sets the world of fire, more of an understated beauty. Really nice car.
Good looking, great driving car with good air conditioning. I’ve had many Alfas since 1980 including a white 1991 164s. That said, the 164 always had a warning light on for something, usually erroneous and maintenance was a nightmare. Just about had to rotate engine on its side to remove rear head and the starter has never been seen by man. Infamous stepper motor for the a/c
the car is butt ass ugly my dude
@@YungEagle3k th-cam.com/video/sk7FfeHbkNw/w-d-xo.html Butt ass ugly. Go drive a camry.
Finally an Alfa Romeo!! It was about time, Wizard! A 94' 164 was my first car here in Spain, loved it, what an amazing piece of automotive art it was
Aqui otro que llevó la L en un 164. 💪💪💪
When you have an Alfa V6 in your shop you have to start the engine to let us hear the beautiful sound of that engine!!!!!
Does not sound nice, actually its more luxury oriented
@@gc9575 i drove one a lot with the V6 Busso and when you give it gas it sounds great :)
Agreed, I pity the fool.
@@gc9575 even when it's luxury oriented it sounds nice...it's a frikkin work of mechanical art!
@@goncaloterrivel1 ...I mean...no. Mrs. Wizard is correct it def looks like a 190E...with a missing chromosome.
Love that you show everything you are talking about. When you talk timing belt, you show the details and of course the underneath of the car. Many others just talk about it and never show what they are talking about and that’s one of the reasons I’ve been following you since the beginning. Great job as always.
The 230 HP version is a QV model (=Cloverleaf). the one is Shown isn't. I own a 93' 2nd gen with the updated headlights and digital climate control, Euro spec. spent about a year restoring it (and still have more work). This is indeed a cool car and I am very happy you got to show one on the channel ^_^
You are correct, from my best friend father had new 164 QV back then, such a car, however both have the best V6 sound ever, Busso is the real thing.
@@altergreenhorn Their v6's sound amazing :) ( From europe, owned a 146ti in the back of the day Alfa's way to spell gti :) )
QV= Quadrifoglio Verde
Amazing model…
The QV was a 200HP version with front wheel drive only.. the Q4 came later on in 1993 and had a 231 HP modified V6 with 4 wheel drive, thus the 4 behind the Q instead of the V.
@@ramimsd the QV second generation has the quad cam with the 230 HP. Earlier QV had less power, like you replied.
The Alfa 164 is the most beautiful berlina ever made. You are absolutely right, the car is from a warm climate state. I visited ths USA several time, NY state, California, Florida and I have always seen one.
When the moon hits your eyes like a big pizza pie, it's Romeo...
"Rome*r*o". Please!
Or parts of one.
If you're hit by a jug,
In a south Auckland pub,
It's a Maori,
It's a Maori.
When you're out in the sea and an eel bites your knee that's a moray.
Pizza is a southern italian dish (Naples), Alfa Romeo is a northern italian car (Milan). Same country, but very very different cultures.
So Pizza and Alfa don't have much of a corellation.
The Alfa 164 was part of the “type 4” project between Saab, Alfa Romeo, Lancia and Fiat, with the Saab 9000, Alfa 164, Lancia Thema & Fiat Croma all sharing the same platform. The Thema 8.32 even had a Ferrari V8.
You beat me to it….=-)
However, the later 24V 164s were close in performance against the Ferrari engined Thema. But Thema 8.32 had gorgeous interior.
Always has me wondering how feasible an engine swap would be, putting the Ferrari engine in the 164.
Such a shame Fiat decided to have a FWD layout, it should have been RWD like the 75/Milano.
@@rafsport7702 it wasn't the idea of Fiat to make the 164 FWD. Type 4 platform sharing program had Fiat's own Croma in it. The agreement of the program was signed in late 70s. Fiat didn't own AR back then
The Busso engines are indeed the world of art.
Yes!
Busso’s Violin!
The "violin of Arese "
Totally. I love the polished effect . No stupid plastic cover
@@2steaksandwiches665 Polished keeps heat out of the intake! (Of course, the plenum is bare aluminum.)
I had 164 twinspark in early nineties. One of best cars ever. Fast, reliable… had it for seven years and never ever any troubles. Still elegant, sporty…
I love 164s, definitely best Alfa Romeo ever made. That quality, testing and state of the art manufacturing plant. Could only recommend finding "164 promo video" here on youtube. Really nice period footage. As for this car, it is actually pre-facelift model with old style 12 valve engine - dual SOHC. Other than timing belt failure due to poor maintainance there are no major issues with these engines and they are really solid and suprisingly economical. Just maintain belt, check valve clearances and change engine oil every 6000 miles or so. These cars are really easy to work on if you have lift. You could just drop whole subframe with engine, gearbox, radiators, steering, suspension... just everything there is and once you pull it off, it is really easy to service just everything and then it should last at least 60000miles. In Europe there also 2.0 Twin Spark 4 cylinder was also an option. With that engine (has timing chain) this car is absolute pinnacle of reliability. Biggest pain in the ass on these cars are those pesky climate control stepper motors. Those are really hard to replace (videotutorial also here on youtube). Also nowadays spare parts for 164s are hard to come by. Yes, it was developed by Alfa Romeo before it was bought by Fiat and yes, it shares some of components with Croma/Tempra/Thema/Saab 9000, but really not that many. 164 has different front suspension, slightly modified rear suspension, completely different bodywork and interior... and there was only 260 thousands of these manufactured and they are really not that popular. Well kept and preserved 164 is something every petrolhead should consider to buy. It was last true Alfa and they were doing their best, because this car was ment to save them. Unfortunatelly Alfa went bankrupt and its revival still is not that great as Fiat promised.
Very true. But nowadays, most of the bad ones are gone by now. They wouldn't survive 25+ years with neglect.
Yep. This one is the 3.0L 12 valve with 183hp. The S model bumped that to 200hp. 24 valve motors had 210hp or 230hp in the Quadrifoglio
The 164 was part of the Tipo 4 project that also included the Lancia Thema, Fiat Thema and Saab 9000. The Lancia, Fiat and Saab are Italdesign designed cars. The 164 was the exception with its Pininfarina design. The 164 looks a lot like Peugeot's slightly larger 605, a Pininfarina design also. The 605 shares its platform with the Citroën XM (design by Bertone). Of all these cars I think the US only got the 164 and of course the 9000.
I have them all.
Thicker steel, more welds and additional beams made the Saab chassis around 30 kilo heavier than the other Tipo 4 chassis.
"you can’t be a true petrolhead until you’ve owned an Alfa Romeo" - Jeremy Clarkson Top Gear.
A bit harder to achieve in the US, they're much more rare here. I'd like to think now that I'm on my 4th Fiat, I might come close.
Worst cars I owned 1977 Alfa Romeo and 1977 Triumph TR7.
Yes, not to forgot Alfa V6 busso the best V6 sound ever
@@niacal4nia And I wish I had them both today.
@@altergreenhorn the V6 is known as the baby Dino as it was used in the ferrari Dino although the alfa versions had less power due to cams and lower compression and not tuned but still a great engine .
Dear wizard ✨I drove a 164 in the 90s great car and it had terrific fuel economy.
The first car i ever drove after getting my drivers license, was my mum's 1994 Alfa 164 3.0 v6 super.
It was completely murdered out and looked like the sorta car the italian mob would have been driving in the mid 90's.
Absolutely loved that car.
Il Busso Cantante
This is why you are my favorite car show, these 164 were very popular in Argentina in the 90s, the 164 Q4 Was the One to have :)
About design, check out the Citroen XM, another icon of that time
I didn't imagine it was popolare in Argentina!
Beautiful car, i really appreciate people keeping those old cars in good condition and running. Even old they still make perfectly fine daily drivers, the lack of all the modern gizmos might even make them more enjoyable as they naturally provide a more raw/unfiltered experience.
And this was a high tech luxury sports sedan in its era
I’ve owned 7 Alfa’s in the U.K. they were the best cars I’ve ever owned, this 164 is in amazing condition 👍 and amazed it’s here in the states .
Passion and soul only the Italians manage this !
I had a 91 164L Manual in Canada it was a great car with great parts availability and easy to work on. I had it lowerd on borbet wheels and it would absolutely break necks out of pure confusion. I'd love to find a reasonably priced 164s some day
That rear subframe corrodes eventually in Europe (after about 30 years), and they are unobtainium. A friend of mine has just remanufactured his 164 rear subframe and had it galvanised. The 164 was galvanised up to the waist at manufacture and its a really well made car by any standards. Better than todays Alfas I'm sad to say. If you stay ahead of the maintainance a 164 is reliable. Look after it and it will look after you.
The 164 subframe us galvanized from the factory.
@@riverrock7169 They still don't last forever in areas where salt is used on roads in winter. The UK is notorious for rusting even the best protected cars.
Nice! I had a ‘90 164 for three years when I was stationed in Italy back in the mid 2000s. It remains my favorite car that I’ve owned.
I had a red 91 164. 320,000 miles on it! The car was excellent, and never left me stranded. I did change out the timing belt once a year, and converted it back to the original oil fed tensioner.
Wizard, as a 91, this a sohc 12 valve with about 190 HP. I miss my 93 S every day. Great video!
I’ll second the above comment. All 1991 - ‘93 versions of the 164 exported to the U.S. used Alfa-Romeo’s SOHC V6 with 2 valves per cylinder. U.S.-spec 164 models received a DOHC/24-valve version of the same basic engine for 1994 - ‘95. I’ve very fond memories of a white ‘91 164 5-speed I enjoyed as my daily driver twenty or so years ago.
Correct, that's a 12 valve 3.0v6. The later engine was the 24v, it has individual could packs.
Saab 93 all the way
My very first car was a facelift 1993 164 Super 24v, loved it. My dad bought a 1993 QV 24v with a Remus back box, to this day still the best sounding 6 cylinder engine I know.
My nana had a w124 Hammer and my papa had a 164 during my early childhood. Extreme nostalgia seeing that interior!
I love these Alfas, I owned one of these limos until my son unfortunately wrote t off. I can say having owned over 20 cars this is the best car I have ever had the pleasure of owning.
I saw one in my small town in Ukraine. Dark grey color on golden bbs's with a little bit lowered rear end. Just gorgeous.
Gold BBS?? Damn I bet that looked gorgeous!
Here's something that I really love about what Mr and Mrs wizard are doing with these videos. Like he stated for some customers who get shocked by 15 different things that come turn out to be wrong with their car and they feel like they're getting bamboozled. With a professional mechanic putting up a public video like this of their findings as they're doing their inspection it removes the mystique and mystery that good old boy mechanics have put into their process in order to cheat the customer.
2:33 thats Roswell, GA. That would also explain the SC plates.
Are you saying aliens know the difference?
If it was from Roswell, GA it was sold used, there was never a Chrysler dealer partnered with Alfa in Roswell.
Correct! Roswell Jeep Eagle in Roswell, GA… used car from them more than likely. I used to design their newspaper ads back in the day.
yes; there is a Ferrari dealership in the area; that's where it's coming from
@@jimmygrant3212 There were still plenty of 164s in that area but don't know what the closest one was.
I owned a '95 new back in '95. It was a terrific car. The only negative was the turning radius. I currently own the new Stelvio, its fantastic too. No issues on any of the 5 Alfa Romeo's I've owned.
👍🏼👍🏼👌
Never thought I would ever see a 164 on my favorite car show.
I owned 2 of these. They were pretty common here in Europe.
This car is absolutely beautiful
So glad you reviewed an Alfa Romeo Wizard! Hopefully we'll see a few more, although it is a real shame how few of them were actually available in the US
I remember in 91 walking into an Alfa dealer showroom and sat in one of these. Those dashboard buttons stood out for me. Always liked these.
I think this is one of the best shaped cars of its time. I love the sound on those too.
A buddy of mine had one of these in red when I was living in Europe back in the 90's. He was always picking up the hot chicks with it LOL. Definitely ahead of it's time for styling but that Italian build quality left a lot to be desired. I can imagine the nightmare of keeping one of these 90's Italian cars on the road today.
Really great Alfa Romeo 164
Thank you for this video and hello from Germany. I owned two 164s - however these were the old 12 valve motors not the 24V. I loved this car - the design, the style and the sound of the motor. It was wonderful. The 164 european version from 1991 did not even have airbags but that did not matter. The car was very light for its size and its competitor on the autobahn was the BMW 525. The BMW had more power but was heavier. You could go (stick shift) from 5th to 4th gear at 170 km/h to gain some extra momentum to accelerate if you were careful with the clutch. At the same time you could drive the car as a relaxed long distance cruiser if you wanted.
I loved my alfa - sometimes I feel that I want to buy an old, used one. However these are difficult to find nowadays and spare part suppy is very problematic.
Great car wizard, but it's the earlier 12 valve model. The 24 valve didn't come out until 1993. My father had 2 164 QV Cloverleaf models.
Nice!
Still missing my 1992 2.0 Litre TwinSpark. The v6 in the video is a 12V SOHC V6. 186 HP. it has opposing valves the exhaust one operated by pushrods.
It's the Italian flair in the design...that makes you fall in love with such a vehicle.
Saab 9000 share the same chassi as this beauty. The Type Four chassis was a shared front wheel drive platform used in the 1980s and 1990s for the Saab 9000, Fiat Croma, Lancia Thema and Alfa Romeo 164. It emerged as an agreement between the four carmakers in October 1978 to reduce development costs on new top-of-the-range saloons, although it would be another six to nine years before the cars were launched. It was front-wheel drive, with optional four-wheel drive, and used a 4-wheel independent MacPherson strut suspension, except on the Saab. The Saab and Lancia versions were the first cars to be launched in 1984, with the Fiat debuting a year later, and the line-up being completed in 1987 with the arrival of the Alfa Romeo. The Fiat and Lancia looked much like the Saab, but the Alfa Romeo only shared the chassis. The wheelbase is 2.67 m (105 inches) on all models. The Saab and Fiat were launched as five-door hatchbacks and the Alfa Romeo and Lancia sold as four-door saloons. Lancia added the only Type Four estate in 1986 and Saab eventually added a saloon version of the 9000 in 1988.
I really want him to work on a SAAB. That car shares a lot with the SAAB 9000
Fiat croma did until saab changed everything as they said it was crap lol
Great engine, I had 2 of these both 12v and the 24v version.
On the 164 change the cam belt hydraulic tensioner to a mechanical fiat one. Door handles snap all the time. Steering racks are prone to leaking.
Electric seat motors get stuck.
Inside door handles internal mec comes apart easy. The fork disengage from the mechanism inside the door.
Buso engine parts are now hard to get and expensive.
This car has something special about it. I loved mine.
Always loved the Type 4 chassis. The 164, Saab 9000 were the ones I wanted but the one I craved was the Lancia Thema with the Ferrari V8. Made such a lovely noise.
My father got the mark 2 thema with the PRV V6. It was quite a good car, really reliable, good looking and confortable, I would like to get the same.
I certainly did not expect to see the 164 on your channel. It is great to see you appreciate these cars. The 1991 model does still have the 12 valve V6 engine though. Mine is a 1991 model, too. Keep up the great work, your channel is incredible!
Great to see this on the channel. I've got a pre-facelift Alfa 166, which replaced the 164, but always loved the 164. The V6 is a thing of beauty.
Love that car. The facelift 164 Super is even nicer to look at. Have had the pleasure of driving one over some years - I never forget the sound of the engine (3.0 24v) and simply the character of the car. Just amazing!
This is why I like boldly designed cars. They look outdated after 4-5 years, but then after some time, they start looking cool again and represent the age when they were made. My 190 Mercedes looks dull inside, but Fiat Tempra looks just like someone who worked on Star Trek TNG designed it. This Alfa interior is a good example as well.
Which Tempra dash are you referring to ? The analogue one or the digital one ?
@@adelkheir www.encontracarros.com.br/upload/fiat/fiat-tempra-sw-painel.jpg
@@adelkheir I linked a car in second post but youtube doesnt like links and its deleted, I tried again, but yeah, digital one. Imagine seeing that new in early 90s. If the link doesnt work again you can see an example on wikipedia. I was pleasantly surprised when a friend of mine got a tempra for 1k euro few years back how cool it was
@@Biskawow Well I drive a Tempra which happens to also be the one which I have learned to drive in and to fix and spend money on it but it's the one with the analogue one with electronic climate control and front electric windows. I also drive a w123 Merc which both happen to belong to my late Father and I can tell you with certainty that regardless of both of their interior design the dash of the merc is so much better bolted in there you rareley if ever hear any rattling in there even when I hit a particularly nasty pothole. But run even on the smallest pebble in the Tempra and the the whole cluster just gets a panic attack. Also to change a bulb in the cluster you have to remove the whole dash because it's a two piece design with the upper one holding the three vents on the left and the dash and the center storage and the cluster and THEN unscrew the cluster from the back just to get to the bulbs 😂. Oh and this applies to the digital dash as well.
Doesn't mean I'm ever getting rid of it though.
Damn...my dad had many Alfa's over the years loved every one of them...they had a massive following out here in South Africa due to their track racing and rallying exploits..will never forget my dad's GTV6 2.5
I had an Alfa Romeo that looked almost exactly like that one except mine had tan and black interior. It was a great car! It sounded great, drove great and was a great daily driver for years!
The predecessor the Alfa Romeo 6 is also a really beautiful magnificent car! but very rare! would be very interesting to get one in the garage!
Yeeeeesss! Since I saw this on Hoovies video in the background I was so hoping you would do a video on it. Such a cool car. Id love one of these.
Me too. I identified it inmediatly and tought: this os going to be featured on a wizards video
I have always loved the 164. I owned three Alfas in my driving career and have nothing but great memories of a car that becomes a part of you the driver!
They really are cars' drivers oriented.
And till some years ago they were considered cars for men except for the spider.
I ran a Twin Spark 164 back in the '90s, one of my favourites. Handled beautifully, & very reliable. I've also owned V6 Alfas, it's a sweet engine.
First I’ve seen reliable and Alfa in the same sentence
@@rahimi4762 unreliability of Alfa is a big myth of marketing. I drive alfas all my life & never had issues. Bulletproof engines!!!
@@sotirisbakaimis3276 The statistics don't really lie. There were always far more defects and design flaws than average but doesn't mean individual cars won't be perfectly reliable
@@MrCarGuy statistics lie all the time! It depends on how they're interpreted.
Great video Car Wizzard! 😀
As many mentioned, this is the 12v 180hp Busso. Worth mentioning is that when the 164 had its realese in -87 it beated the Rolls Royce/Bentley in sound comfort in the back seat, it had both lower levels of road- and wind noise.
It also got an re-design of the front suspension to get a lower hood line then the othet three cars (SAAB 9000, Fiat Croma and Lancia Thema) in the Tipo 4 familly.
The Alfa 164 is one of THE most favorite Alfas ever to me alongside the 155 especially if it was equipped with the 4wd q4 model, which I'm hearing that they've started importing them to the states. I honestly love 90s Italian regual cars in general from the Fiat Tempra to the Lancia Dedra and beyond.
Here in Italy 164 are pretty common and cheap, mostly used as a beater by old people that bought them back in old days. If so many 164 are still running, they weren’t so bad, even if not a MB.
The Mercedes W201 was actually designed by an Italian - the legendary Bruno Sacco
That's a nice Alfa, in good running order it will be better than most new cars, and fun to drive.
Lol im actually watching from Compton California 🤣🤣
First of all, congratulations for the nice video, Wizard! I am Italian and know Alfa Romeo brand and particularly, the 164. I use to see plenty of them on the road when I was a child between the end of the 80s and the early 90s. My uncle owned a 164 2 litres V6 turbo. I used to travel on that car once only and remember it was so elegant and sporty at the same time. The acceleration and speed of that car also impressed me. I've been so pleased to see this wonderful Alfa Romeo after so long. Take care of it and make it a great "Alfa" again! I'm looking forward to your next video clip. See you soon! Ciao! 🙂👍🏻
I'm amazed an early 90's Alfa is in such good condition!!
These were really good cars. I bought one in 2001 for only $3k and used it to commute to work 60 miles round trip M-F for a full year. It never failed me. Things like power accessory switches weren't so great and needed cleaning and there were some other inconvenience items, but the engine is bulletproof as long as you take care of the timing belts. Good luck finding parts...
shame you never see them, the "hot" version was just stunning
I have a stunning 1991 164 S with 85,000 miles....about to do front and rear engine seals, clutch, timing belt, tensioner, water pump, fuel pump and assorted gaskets and hoses and then ready to roll....
Yes!
Drove the cloverleaf version. It was spiritual
They've begun importing the QV and the Q4 to the states now. There's one q4 that is sold on bring a trailer for 15500
@@michaelbrown5601 oh yeah so did i a black one early 90's i'd say- i was never a huge fan other than the styling
I saw a green one of these in Carmal CA several months ago ! I was so surprised I totally stopped and got out and took a bunch of pictures lol. Carmel and monterey really is the absolute best place to car spot even all year long not just during car week!
When these were new we had a regular customer that had the manual version performance version of this with the same chromed intake runners on the motor. Was a pleasure picking up and delivering the car.
I remember the driving position being a bit odd but the rest was on point!
When you said, when a person see it in their mirror there is no question who makes it. First it be in your mirror as it was passing you. You do not measure speed of an Alfa in quarter mile. When you are cruising at 140 + on vacation, you know you have a great car. I have owned and raced Alfa, my 4 cylinder cruised at 130 +. Love Alfa.
It was a very fast car for the era
Wish you would include a driving segment on these cars or even some idling/ running/ rev footage
Exactly he should have at least started this one the busso v6 is one of the best sounding V6 engines every to exist
It’s an Alfa. They don’t run.
Don't forget it's not his car.
@@marcusdare1688 and? He still probably has to drive it to test after fixing. He has to start it regardless of if he owns it..
Seeing you checking things underneath these vehicles is my favorite part of your videos
I had a 93 164 q4, loved that car, it's like a big gocart in the corners :D
I think the 164 3.0 q4 is going to be a very appreciated sight in future classic car shows.
@@electroborg It already is, only around 110 made of the Q4.
@@БранимирПетров You are missing a 0 at least. More than a thousand was made. The 24v QV on the other hand, is only made in 488 examples.
Agreed, I too love the styling of the Alfa Romeo 164L. They had one a while back on Wheeler Dealers, and the mechanic Ant Anstead called it "an Italian taxicab" so I guess they were quite a common site on Italian streets back in the '90s.
No Alfa could ever be described as "common" in the US, though.
They were pretty common in all of europe. It was a joint venture between Saab, fiat, Lancia and alfa
You really should have started this the Busso V6 sounds just glorious!
Had an opportunity to drive one of these several years ago and was amazed at how effortless and stable it drove while maintaining speeds of 85mph (110 seemed to be a sweet-spot.) Truly a fun but unappreciated Italian sedan. Thanks for featuring it!
The shop (store) opposite my school had one of these, aftermarket exhaust, oh the sound! they had a stunning daughter too!
I had one of these roll through my shop. I absolutely love it.
Didn’t know those were sold in USA. Start to be rare here in Europe, particularly the 3.0 V6 Busso engine.
I think it was imported. They used to be everywhere in europe like 10 years ago and now they just disappeared, other alfas from the same period too, it's a shame.
The last Alfa Romeo before the 4C
You can see one in the original Point Break movie from 1991.
They really are disappeared in no time!
Only 128 164’s are registered in the Netherlands and insured. 185 are not insured, so also not allowed on the public road. Pretty rare car nowadays. Especially in white! Only 6 white 164’s here in the Netherlands, but only one! Is insured! (In the Netherlands you have to insure your car if it’s standing on the public road, no insurance, is no driving Whatsoever)
alfa romeo is genesis quote of jeremy clarckson. Great brand Enzo Ferrari used to work for them for a long time.
Ferrari actually cried when he beat alfa romeo in racing for the 1 st time. In europe we had a qv version with 4w drive not shure if the us had this model on sale. the alfa V6 was called a busso engine, this one was produced up untill the 2010.
In its final evolution it had been upgraded to 3.2 litre 24v an produced 260 hp. the alfa V6 was made in 2l turbo 12v, V6 2.5 l. 24v and 3 litre 12v and 3 litre 24 v. The 164 was designed by pininfarina.there is even a prototype with a V 10 engine in the alfa romeo museum (italy)
I can't see one of these without thinking of the Saab 9000. The Saab 9000 Aero has the most comfortable Recaros I've ever sat in.
The Saab 9000 and Alfa 164 shared a common platform, known as the 'Type Four' project. The other 2 were the Fiat Croma and Lancia Thema.
Would be cool to see a decent Saab 9000, even an Aero, in the Wizards shop. Unfortunately, doubt there were many in Kansas. I owned 3 9000's, the last being a 1995 9000 Aero. Absolutely awesome, loved SAAB's til they went out of business. Also had a 1983 900T, 1997 900s convertible, 2001 9-5 and a 2003 9-3.
Had a few of these, had a 2 litre twin spark sold it with 300,000 miles still running fine miss the 164
If only that Busso was driving the rear wheels like in pre FIAT Alfas.
The new Giulia is rear wheel drive, with a Ferrari derived engine.
@@kevinshort3943..... Quadrifoglio.....OMFGaaaaawd 🔥👅😈
Gimme an Alfa 75 with the 3.0 lt V6 up front & stickshift transaxle in the rear....close to 50/50 weight distribution .....that's a REAL Alfa Romero 🔥👅😈
The 75 and the SZ.
th-cam.com/video/9BuZmJmpTdk/w-d-xo.html
I had almost bought one of these as my second car. Had the online post for the car bookmarked and was waiting for the price to drop enough, it started at like 9k and dropped to like 5, and I decided to go look at it and most likely buy it.
It was sold sight unseen to a guy multiple states a way 2 hours before I reached the lot it was being sold at. I actually screamed in the parking lot. Not proud of that, lol.
I have one. Truly a fantastic car. Please let the people hear the magnificent sound of the busso V6 when you’re done!
Those were the 1980's-1990's Italian business man car. This is probably the last great full size Alfa Romeo sedan and shared its bones with the FIAT Croma, The Lancia Thema and the SAAB 9000, even if it does not show. Untill few years ago you saw some of them still on the road in Italy. Sad I didn't see one in years.
My first car was an Alfa 164 just like that one, but 4 cylinder T.S. version. Love that car !!
I have a Saab 9000, a brother of the Alfa 164 and I just love it!
These cars are precious and should be protected at all cost, along with their sisters Fiat Croma, Lancia Thema and Saab 9000
Glad someone else remembered this bit of trivia... The platform development cost was shared by Saab, and used for the 9000 series. 😎
fiat chroma is a dog lol. the other cars are beautiful tho
My Local Alfa Romeo Indy told me these cars are nothing but garbage.
@@hectorvazquez7929 What's an indy
Don't forget Peugeot also shared the platform with the 605.
Let me tell you, timing belt job on one of these is a pain in the rear. These cars a such a blast to drive, tons of torque and the s models sport suspension is a perfect balance of handling and ride quality. Side note, do not lift from those pegs with a normal floor jack, the side loading will cause them to collapse, ask me how I know
I used to have one of these, still my favorite car iv'e ever owned
why you didn't keep it?
@@sotirisbakaimis3276 just wanted something newer, probably going to buy one again soon.
I had one of these (after a long line of Alfas) and it was brilliant. Didn't have the issues the older ones had (in particular the corrosion). It was the first sign that Alfa Romeo had turned a corner in the quality game and they finally started building (relatively) good quality cars. Alfa were always brilliant driving machines, just the quality is where they were letting us down.
Love the buttons and set up, looks cooler then Mercedes but as always thank you guys,
I live in New Hampshire, I see these quite frequently oddly enough. It's actually the same platform that was used for the Saab 9000. One of my favorite car as ever.
I was going to buy a newer Alfa in a few months but I rather start looking for one of these.
Lease a Giulia Ti Sport and buy a 164S. Best of both, unless you can afford a Giulia Quadrifolio!
I live driving my 93 164S (12 V) and planning on leasing a Giulia...
Having driven only Italian cars throughout my life I can report that if you have ANY doubt regarding condition of the floorpan these pegs for the lift arms aren't the best point to put your jack. In a 10+ year old car that hasn't been parked in a garage or experienced winter driving they will push the floor inside . The lower wishbone joints make for a much safer jacking point.
@Echte Brabander - I can’t blame him, regular Italian cars are rarer than real exotics in the States
I've got an 89 with the twin spark 2L 4 banger. Great cars.
My dad did 300k miles in his, loved it to bits
"This car needs some TLC"
Me, fan of wrestling: What? Tables, ladders and chairs?!
I really like the design of the 164, whenever i see them here in Finland which is quite rare, i cant take my eyes off of it. I own a Peugeot 605 which has extremely similar design, and getting to park it next to a 164 was awesome.