For a street car pump E85 is the clear victor with the best average tq and HP. We have a gas station chain in Chicagoland putting in E85 pumps everywhere and it tests at 70-87% all year (I have tracked it for over a year now) and is stable at $1.79-$1.89 per gallon. It also lags 2-4 weeks behind summer gas price hikes.
Al Loco I assume your talking about Thornton’s? Heard theirs was always on point. I’m about to convert my car to e85. Live in Orland looking for my designated fill up spot.
Like they said it depends on where you live because half the stations where I live got shit down for selling fake e85 which was easy to smell if it was fake, and the ones who are left sell really ok stuff not the best it’s only e60-70
@@omahasho4658 Except their tests showed even e40 offered big gains. Plus if you're buying 'fake' e85 and it's prices much less than 87oct, you're getting a deal for a regular car. It will also extend your pump/injector since it requires less flow per HP. They ran 40% only because they didn't have enough pump or injector for 80%.
@@hydrocarbon82 C85 will make more power. Most people don't need it because 99% of the people responding to this video don't race regularly and don't race semi-professionally either. When everybody else is running E85 out of the pump, all things being equal C85 will be faster.
@@dj4monie grassroots racer here! And you’re right. If you race, get the consistency of an E fuel out of a pail. Sunoco 85R has higher octane (MON) than C85 btw. So consider that option…it’s a bit cheaper too.
Did an E85 conversion a few days ago, went to the pump in north Texas and was surprised to find E85 at $1.55/gal. Tested it, 80%. Not too bad. Running a C6 Grand Sport on 15 lbs of boost, can't really use much timing on 93. Finishing up the E85 tune this evening and tomorrow if needed, should be fun.
Did you not see the huge temperature difference? AMBIENT WAS 66F vs. 79F for E40. 13F makes a huge difference in DA and reduces detonation issues. That would explain the entire difference including the more torque at lower rpm where it likes warmer air.
You say that anything over E50 doesn't gain any more power.... I have found this to be valid at low boost levels only. Cars that are running high boost (especially 35+psi) do see gains running higher Ethanol content.
Yes, I agree and I think we should clarify in future videos. The issue we have in testing is that it's difficult to make a test vehicle which is reliable with such high boost levels and consistent results for fair comparisons for a long period of time. This car ran only about 7-8 psi, but I agree with high boost more Ethanol % would make a difference. Thanks for the comment!
These guys have lost credibility saying there’s no gain above 40-50% ethanol. If that car the fuel system, they’d see that true e85 has a substantial gain over 50% ethanol
@@taylorgtrotter also wierd how the c85 only tested 70% should be 85% everytime with the last 15% being the only difference in mixture vs pump e85 which around here test 85% everytime.
If don’t see any gains from running a higher ethanol blend than 40 Percent than it’s because your fuel delivery system is maxed out. There’s oxygen in the fuel.
You tested C85 at a way lower ambient and manifold temperature than the other fuels. How is this even a comparison? all else being equal, cooler air temp = less detonation = more power.
@@josecasados3239 he never said "cut in" he said "cut WITH". And what he means is that they diluted the C85 with the wrong type of non ethanol gasoline.
soon as I saw you guys cut it to 40% I quit watching.........I never have got any E85 less than 80% here and I buy it at least 15 times a year for 4 years now so if you cant test the fuel how we buy the fuels then these test are not valid......I have never seen E85 anywhere that low of content so you need to start comparing real E85 to other fuel instead of some E40 I will never see
This is true but they said they tested e85 and that there were no gains over about 40%, that is why they made it 40% cause 40% is the same power as 85%.
oldschool Boost not to mention they think there’s no gains in power over 40-50% ethanol content. If that car had the fuel system to support flowing a full 85% flow, they’d see results differing from their claims
Did you say E40-50 (Ethanol) kills upstream O2 sensors? I was planning to run a daily driver C7 Z06 with a flex fuel tune. I had not heard about the O2 sensors dying.
decent E85 vs c85 is the test that should have been done. there'd probably be no difference in power. a summer blend of E85 would probably be around 70% vs. c85 which is 70% probably would test identical.
The pump E85 mix made 11hp less vs the C85 mix. Agreed. But the 11hp on happened at the very top end. Everywhere else the pump E85 made more. The E85 pump had a higher average Hp which you would feel more than the 11hp at the very top.
Hey guys thanks for the vids - I would love to see 93 plus water.meth injection in this series! (even both fuel + water only and fuel + a water/meth mix). Keep it up :)
Interested to see what it would make with c85 paired with 100% meth injection. Meth should help take some stress off the fuel system and allow for a higher concentration of ethanol. That's what I've done for direct injected cars other then aux fueling.
That is because pump E85 is blended with 87 octane at the station. $30 can of Boostane and Pump E85, I guess, but there cheaper options that make more power than any E85 blended or not.
Arizona has so whack laws regarding ethanol. E54 is the min, not E85. You say that E85 doesnt have that much of an advantage over E50 (E54). Then in a port fuel, supercharged car would E54 provide a similar level of antiknock and detonation protection? The Ethanol isnt cut with 91 out here, its 87. Most pump Ethanol is cut with the lowest available octane (87 in AZ).
This comparison doesn't make sense... they don't have enough puel pump, so they cut the C85 down to E40. Well, of course it's not going to perform as designed-- you just cut its octane by mixing in pump 93.
and the IATs were lower for the C85. What a junk test.They probably werent even on the same day. I would like to see the repeatability and the avg of 3 pulls.
There is no gain on the C85. Look at the temp. You tested 10-19 degree COLDER with the C85. That would account for 1-2% more power. Look at the average HP and TQ. Exactly as expected at 13 degrees cooler. And you did not note the barometric pressure or humidity which can also (slightly) effect the results. Not a totally fair test. Also why not try to get real E85 pump instead of that E40 junk?? My testing shows e50 is about the sweet spot, but it depends on the engine and details of the setup. I'm running 100% e85 just because when I did my car there were not flex fuel sensors at that time. But I did tune for E25, E33 and E85. Hopefully this year I'll put on a sensor and retune to find the best spot.
This is not a good comparison pump e85 is made with 87 octane maybe yal should get cars that can actually run the fuel you want to test first of all second is the better fuel makes the tuning window alot wider as far as detonation and or boost or nitrous applications
Not impressed really you can run an in line Ethanol sensor that will tell you the exact ethanol you are running like me I run E60 on a 335xi pushing 20 psi boost (low rpm-midrange) tapering to 15-16 psi at redline 0 avg ign.... Stock fuel pump obviously direct injection engine (N54)
For a street car pump E85 is the clear victor with the best average tq and HP. We have a gas station chain in Chicagoland putting in E85 pumps everywhere and it tests at 70-87% all year (I have tracked it for over a year now) and is stable at $1.79-$1.89 per gallon. It also lags 2-4 weeks behind summer gas price hikes.
Al Loco I assume your talking about Thornton’s? Heard theirs was always on point. I’m about to convert my car to e85. Live in Orland looking for my designated fill up spot.
Thanks for doing this series guys. We really do appreciate it. Lots of great information here.
The E85 in Socal has consistent 80% content and only costs 2.20 a gallon so I don't see how this other fuel would be worth it.
Like they said it depends on where you live because half the stations where I live got shit down for selling fake e85 which was easy to smell if it was fake, and the ones who are left sell really ok stuff not the best it’s only e60-70
@@omahasho4658 Except their tests showed even e40 offered big gains. Plus if you're buying 'fake' e85 and it's prices much less than 87oct, you're getting a deal for a regular car. It will also extend your pump/injector since it requires less flow per HP. They ran 40% only because they didn't have enough pump or injector for 80%.
@@hydrocarbon82 C85 will make more power. Most people don't need it because 99% of the people responding to this video don't race regularly and don't race semi-professionally either. When everybody else is running E85 out of the pump, all things being equal C85 will be faster.
@@dj4monie grassroots racer here! And you’re right. If you race, get the consistency of an E fuel out of a pail. Sunoco 85R has higher octane (MON) than C85 btw. So consider that option…it’s a bit cheaper too.
Our e85 at the pumps down here in Australia is always around 90% ethanol content all year around.
C85 is still better, at least 2 tenths/2 mph better same conditions, same boost levels.
Did an E85 conversion a few days ago, went to the pump in north Texas and was surprised to find E85 at $1.55/gal. Tested it, 80%. Not too bad. Running a C6 Grand Sport on 15 lbs of boost, can't really use much timing on 93. Finishing up the E85 tune this evening and tomorrow if needed, should be fun.
Big issue with C85 is MTBE, which is bad for injectors. Can damage them and cause flow issues.
13 degrees temp difference for this test under the E85 test...
Did you not see the huge temperature difference? AMBIENT WAS 66F vs. 79F for E40. 13F makes a huge difference in DA and reduces detonation issues. That would explain the entire difference including the more torque at lower rpm where it likes warmer air.
They do not replying here because they do not look at this
You say that anything over E50 doesn't gain any more power.... I have found this to be valid at low boost levels only. Cars that are running high boost (especially 35+psi) do see gains running higher Ethanol content.
Yes, I agree and I think we should clarify in future videos. The issue we have in testing is that it's difficult to make a test vehicle which is reliable with such high boost levels and consistent results for fair comparisons for a long period of time. This car ran only about 7-8 psi, but I agree with high boost more Ethanol % would make a difference. Thanks for the comment!
Musky Performance How does E85 go @10psi with PM2300 into an L98 6.0ltr?
These guys have lost credibility saying there’s no gain above 40-50% ethanol. If that car the fuel system, they’d see that true e85 has a substantial gain over 50% ethanol
@@taylorgtrotter also wierd how the c85 only tested 70% should be 85% everytime with the last 15% being the only difference in mixture vs pump e85 which around here test 85% everytime.
wizzjo1nt5 that’s very interesting. I’d almost rather have pump e85 cut with low octane 85/87. Cheaper and a lot more consistent than many think.
Air fuel ratio was leaned out for the c85 mixture. This takes away a constant of the testing.
If don’t see any gains from running a higher ethanol blend than 40 Percent than it’s because your fuel delivery system is maxed out. There’s oxygen in the fuel.
You tested C85 at a way lower ambient and manifold temperature than the other fuels. How is this even a comparison? all else being equal, cooler air temp = less detonation = more power.
They also ran it at a higher AFR. Definitely a garage test.
This test became invalid when you cut the c85 with pump gas.
That just ruined the quality of it. C85 is cut with race gas.
BoostedStang wym cut in race gas?
@@josecasados3239 he never said "cut in" he said "cut WITH".
And what he means is that they diluted the C85 with the wrong type of non ethanol gasoline.
They had to due to not having enough injector left.
@@HioSSilver1999 exactly and that ruined the test.
I appreciate these videos. Would love to see the dyno graphs overlaid. One tip - it's quite distracting when they talk over each other
We're glad to do them, and check out the video about 3:35 you will find the graphs overlaid. Thanks!
soon as I saw you guys cut it to 40% I quit watching.........I never have got any E85 less than 80% here and I buy it at least 15 times a year for 4 years now so if you cant test the fuel how we buy the fuels then these test are not valid......I have never seen E85 anywhere that low of content so you need to start comparing real E85 to other fuel instead of some E40 I will never see
This is true but they said they tested e85 and that there were no gains over about 40%, that is why they made it 40% cause 40% is the same power as 85%.
WTH Harrison so, they can prove it to us on the video...
oldschool Boost not to mention they think there’s no gains in power over 40-50% ethanol content. If that car had the fuel system to support flowing a full 85% flow, they’d see results differing from their claims
Did you say E40-50 (Ethanol) kills upstream O2 sensors? I was planning to run a daily driver C7 Z06 with a flex fuel tune. I had not heard about the O2 sensors dying.
decent E85 vs c85 is the test that should have been done. there'd probably be no difference in power. a summer blend of E85 would probably be around 70% vs. c85 which is 70% probably would test identical.
A local Mobil station sells VP fuel for $7.89 a gallon at the pump.
Do M5 vs E85. Not sure why meth in the big tank was skipped
The pump E85 mix made 11hp less vs the C85 mix. Agreed. But the 11hp on happened at the very top end. Everywhere else the pump E85 made more. The E85 pump had a higher average Hp which you would feel more than the 11hp at the very top.
If you drag race you want to run this especially if everybody else is being cheap and using pump E85 which is more often the case.
Have you done or are you going to do, any oxygenated fuels, like Q16, with NA, Nitrous, and boost?
would love to see.
C85 does make your car faster, but only because your wallet is lighter.
If you are tuned for e85 can you just put c85 in tank ???
Hey guys thanks for the vids - I would love to see 93 plus water.meth injection in this series! (even both fuel + water only and fuel + a water/meth mix). Keep it up :)
Interested to see what it would make with c85 paired with 100% meth injection. Meth should help take some stress off the fuel system and allow for a higher concentration of ethanol. That's what I've done for direct injected cars other then aux fueling.
I run pump E20 and WMI together, I get 3-5 degrees more ignition advance no dynos just log runs. Will run it this weekend.
Basically a paid add from c85
Really??? Did you see this video:
th-cam.com/video/y-1giF7jQfg/w-d-xo.html
Lmao did you hear where they said it's barely better than e85 and 6 times more expensive.
TheTuningSchool this video is trash
Have you try E85 mix with boostane? Gain additional 40whp on turbo car.
That is because pump E85 is blended with 87 octane at the station. $30 can of Boostane and Pump E85, I guess, but there cheaper options that make more power than any E85 blended or not.
Arizona has so whack laws regarding ethanol. E54 is the min, not E85. You say that E85 doesnt have that much of an advantage over E50 (E54). Then in a port fuel, supercharged car would E54 provide a similar level of antiknock and detonation protection? The Ethanol isnt cut with 91 out here, its 87. Most pump Ethanol is cut with the lowest available octane (87 in AZ).
Can i use Vp C85 on stage 1 tune M6 bump gas ? Or its better to use the ms109 ?
Use C85 E40 blend will make more power than MS109, at least 2 tenths/2 mph if not more.
If I have a flex fuel tune already on my car for E85. Do I have to get another tune to run C85
i thought running on ethanol was only rewarding when you up the compression ratio...
mitchiegxxr350 you can run a boat load more boost and timing.
My E85 tested to be 70 is there a way i can mix it to be e85.my car is 13/9 Compression.
Need to do a test on FTW fuels especially purple
In the summer I always pump 4 gallons of E85 into the tank before I fill with 93 octane.
Keeps any hint of knock or timing retard away.
Turbos LOVES C85
How did you guys cut it down to c40 from c85? wondering what would be the mix to make c30. thanks in advance
They do not answer in here, because apparently they are too good for us
This is not testing c85 or e85 at all this is a backyard mixture of fuels yal comparing
C85 vs ignite red what’s better ?
The question that I don't see here is . If you're tuned with E 85 can you run C85 as well and gain hp?
Did you figure out if you can or not?
Tuner would need to readjust the tune slightly
I'll take e85 that is consistently ~90%
This comparison doesn't make sense... they don't have enough puel pump, so they cut the C85 down to E40. Well, of course it's not going to perform as designed-- you just cut its octane by mixing in pump 93.
Does c85 work with the flex fuel kits?
Yes. C85 is ethanol based.
the airfuel was leaner. of course it made more power. not apples to apple.
and the IATs were lower for the C85. What a junk test.They probably werent even on the same day. I would like to see the repeatability and the avg of 3 pulls.
There is no gain on the C85. Look at the temp. You tested 10-19 degree COLDER with the C85. That would account for 1-2% more power. Look at the average HP and TQ. Exactly as expected at 13 degrees cooler. And you did not note the barometric pressure or humidity which can also (slightly) effect the results. Not a totally fair test. Also why not try to get real E85 pump instead of that E40 junk?? My testing shows e50 is about the sweet spot, but it depends on the engine and details of the setup. I'm running 100% e85 just because when I did my car there were not flex fuel sensors at that time. But I did tune for E25, E33 and E85. Hopefully this year I'll put on a sensor and retune to find the best spot.
C-85 is faster than pump in my car by a pretty good margin, logs don't lie, more ignition advance.
@@dj4monie N/A or boosted?
Put a damn fuel system in these cars guys
How did you cut it
This is not a good comparison pump e85 is made with 87 octane maybe yal should get cars that can actually run the fuel you want to test first of all second is the better fuel makes the tuning window alot wider as far as detonation and or boost or nitrous applications
Not impressed really you can run an in line Ethanol sensor that will tell you the exact ethanol you are running like me I run E60 on a 335xi pushing 20 psi boost (low rpm-midrange) tapering to 15-16 psi at redline 0 avg ign.... Stock fuel pump obviously direct injection engine (N54)
I only taper (JB4) not a BMW because I need more octane for Map 4 and beyond.
Just get flex fuel!
weak... wtf c85 cut.... noone will do this.
So you didn’t compare C85 you diluted it to something else .
E85