Gotta love how everyone was like, "Every matchup is annoying in this game!" The devs address it by targeting the annoying things, and then everyone complains how their character got nerfed 🤦♀️
ya its a crazy over reaction (aside from orcane and maybe fleet) and I think after a couple more balance patchs these will have absolutely been the right call
I see a lot of smash players upset about this patch being mostly nerfs. I come from melee but have been playing destiny 2 as a titan main for the past 4 years. I am used to nothing but nerfs. What a lot of people aren't understanding is why this is being done. They are looking past the fact its the entire roster and not just their main. The majority of the nerfs are to stop lame campy playstyles or just unfun to interact with moves from being too strong. I legit saw people saying they were quitting the game over this. Literally just reading the part before the character specific changes explains why the nerfs were made and even with a lot of the changes there are notes explaining why these changes were needed. But no some people just see their character in a vacuum.
I wonder if those Smash fans threatening to quit the game over the Fleet nerfs are actually fans of Rivals, or if they just liked using Fleet when she was broken. It's like when Steve mains threatened to quit if their main was banned. Did they like Ultimate or just using broken Steve?
@x9x9x9x9x9 Do you think Rivals would be healthier without those "fair weather" Smash fans who threatened to quit if/when their main gets nerfed? Also without sounding petty, but it seems like Melee players said it more often. Ultimate fans kinda accepted that their characters could get nerfed at any time when patches were ongoing. Melee players might not understand that feel haha
@@l.n.3372as a Fleet main, there is ONE change that makes a lot of us feel terrible with her, just like BBatts and CakeAssault who said they would be dropping her : nerfing her air acceleration by 35 fucking %, from 1.2 to 0.78. My roommate who plays Zetter and has been hating on her essentially since release said he was feeling bad for me now because DA is still a terrible move and Fleet’s previous overshoot and microspacing methods were gutted by this.
People need to understand that. The original rivals could get rather campy because if you get hit you just explode. We have shields now we do not want to recreate that
Some of the changes seem overtuned, but I've been in the Rivals community long enough to trust the devs. They do their research, and I can't think of any truly bad changes in the nearly decade-long lifespan of Rivals of Aether
I really liked the Clairen changes. Smaller tippers is a noticeable nerf but more knockback on Ftilt and Bair is much appreciated. Glad those 2 moves were finally added to the game XD
Your voice sounded really familiar and fora while now I couldn’t put my tongue on it but it finally came to me, I was thinking of the Valorant coach OD26. Not exactly the same but pretty similar voice and even similar way of speaking too. Pretty random but anyway nice video lol
The new (Rivals 1) Clone is insane. It can use down tilt, up tilt, nair, etc. A lot more potential for comboing and trapping opponents than the old one. Can't speak on what level the AI is, but it is definitely MUCH higher than the previous patch. It does moonwalk a ton now, which I've heard is done by the level 9 CPUs.
I'm personally very happy about most of the changes. Especially the shield changes because holy lord such scrubby play from shield camping oml, ranked is a joke. Fleet getting nerfed is beyond fine and all the changes make sense. Imma miss being able to heavily pressure off stage with constant floats, but it was too strong and I'll keep it pushing as always. I complain about the game, but I'm never the type to quit just because something is frustrating. I'll quit if the game isn't fun anymore and the game is still extremely fun
Ya I think the shield changes are great, also glad to hear a fleet player not losing their mind, character took a big hit but I think you can still make her work
@@ProofBlockAnother fleet player, i really don't mind msot of the changes, i think they're pretty fair and they can always reverse some if them if the character is gutted. Only thing that really makes me sad is the air acceleration reduction. I loved fleet's movement and now it feels a lot less good. Wish it was at least a smaller nerf, like maybe going to 1.0.
I feel bad for Orcane mains (kind of) but I really love this patch. I actually enjoy playing as Clairen now because he doesn't feel overly easy and with shields being nerfed there's a lot more neutral. The game feels less spammy.
Came from ssbm, and overall I feel alot of these changes are a positive. The shield mechanic is a plus for someone like me who loves shield pressuring opponents and forcing options. Havent had any time to test how big of a difference it’ll make but excited for this and future updates/patches. Glad they finally patched wrastors weakness, not having any good skins. 😂
It is so fascinating how they are able to homogenize the cast with careful small thoughtful tweaks! Takes way more creativity than they get the credit for.
As a Fleet main I do indeed have a harder time killing on this patch, though overall she feels fine. I rely a lot more on down air which is one of her cheesier moves imo. I'm glad floating nair and fair spam is less of a thing but I think the patch only emphasized her polarizing matchups. Up air and air accel nerfs feel a bit extreme numbers-wise, and making down air a bit slower might have been nice for making her lower level playstyle less toxic.
Thats honestly exactly what I wanted to hear from this patch, forcing more value from dair where as before you just never needed it, it still may have been a little much but I like the general idea behind the changes
@ProofBlock I meant that you called (if I remember correctly, because I cant remember from the video rn, so I'm gonna put an example that I don't know if you truly said that in specific) that you mentioned downb stall hard nerf as a buff (for example), which doesn't make any sense to me because now he can't recover with turnaround > fair, and that was wild to me
@@ProofBlock Oh got it. I can't see that as something good or better option on stage because you wont approach anyone with aerial/grounded downb (no hitbox at all) there is no point on approaching with that bc it will lose against everything (any hit, shield or parry and probably wont combo after hit with downb while approaching), before this, you could bait some options with down b reverse or just jumping and stalling as a "spacing tool" (used as movement), now, you need more stage space to create that situation while being less safe. (I can see your point even if I don't agree with that or have different opinion anyway) Future will tell us anyway; for now, 0 representation at top 64 on yesterday's coinbox sadly for Orcane🤘🏻
The game is so much slower now with the Kraag nerfs. I never notice patches in platform fighters and this is the 1st time I genuinely felt an immediate difference. Vanilla Kraag is dead to me… I’m gonna miss Vanilla Kraag…
You should probably feel patches. Otherwise, what was the point? Also in a game where people say every matchup can be frustrating, the nerfs are trying to tone the frustrating aspects back a bit. Honestly, Kraag got it better than most of the cast imo, but I play mostly Kraag so maybe I'm overestimating other character's changes
Kraggs normals (tilts and jabs) are just as fast, so you're basically saying you abused kraggs broken projectile frame data or cheesed a lot with fsmash. Good, you're the type of player that should be hit the hardest with these nerfs.
As someone pretty new to the game and still just trying to get better (currently hovering around the upper side of silver), I've been maining Orcane and the changes are just so demoralizing to me. Everything just feels so sluggish and difficult to execute now. In concept I love Orcane's style and kit so I'd like if I didn't have to learn a new main but now that seems like basically a necessity at least for some time. Pretty disappointing for me as someone who had been enjoying the game so far.
Ya that’s definitely tough, the only silver lining is that he won’t stay like this for ever, but damn they hit him hard, I think you could still make him work and get to gold and beyond it’s just gonna take a LOT more effort and way less camping
Ranno still feels super oppresive, feels almost identical. Orcane above plat is unplayable, can't recover, has 0 neutral. Worst character in the game rn and murdered him entirely
21:50 you forget one thing : Fleet already has a main mechanic in wind chime. Every single fucking patch we are seeing nerfs to Fleet’s combos, onstage kill moves and by extension to wind chime. Dan is just forgetting he put this mechanic in the game
@@ProofBlock Fleet being a float character with an anecdotal wind chime is probably the most glaring symptome that the devs have no idea what they want some of their characters to feel like, which is something I don’t like at all
@ I think that’s a little harsh considering the chime is never actually over whelming and is balanced into the kit well, I think they have good base game plans built and players are just going above and beyond (like what normally happens)
It for sure matters, but yes fleet can haxdash to get her float back in fact I was practicing just that 3 days ago. In preparation lol. It still however makes ur recovery worse as you can be ledge trapped and potentially be force off stage again without float
Either way the point isn't that it literally doesn't matter the point is that you can basically do the same thing, it just requires being slightly more technical, and takes a little bit more time I should've worded it better.
it will for sure matter because you have to do that extra input instead of just grabbing ledge and jumping off, even if its only a small window its going to change your timings
These orcane nerfs are super rough. He is bottom 1 for sure now. The stall nerf is massive now you cant b-reverse it to fair to stage. Also rought that they didnt give him anything back while his back air still is super inconsistent. Kinda weird that krag only gets 1 or 2 frames here and there but Orcane gets several on everything... And that for an already low tier character.
@scriggle3564 no he was low tier. Like most people agreed he was bottom 3. Just above lox en fors. Who both got buffed this patch. And Orcane only lost stuff.
@@veggiewizard168 he was according to several top player tier lists. Usually hovering just above fors and lox. He wasnt bad low tiers in this games arent bad but he was bottom 3.
Wait can you actually just not do b reverse nair in time or are you just being dramatic, regardless huge nerfs that I think are good for the state of the game but not at all for comp, also kragg for more then a few frames here and there he is noticeably worse (still good tho)
I dont have over 100 levels with Kragg like I do Wrastor, but I am considering him as a secondary. The most noticeable thing to me is he pulls rock slower and that's about it
@@calebrobinson6406 he’s a lot slower now in the air and all his moves (especially back air) are way slower and don’t combo like they used to. Down b was an abusive tool off stage, but youll die if you run off stage and down b. Doing that was a good mixup to getting early kills but now you die
@@nacligangThe air accel nerf makes her feel terrible enough that both Cake and BBatts said they were dropping Fleet, Cake going back to Fors and BBatts not entering tournaments on this patch
@@randomguy8107 If he wants to switch characters on a brand new patch without giving time to adjust the gameplan, then lol okay fine whatever But not entering tourneys is actually a little immature and overreactive. Future patches will happen based on community feedback over time. Broadly speaking, strong-arming devs to undo nerfs literally right after they happen creates a very toxic player-dev relationship Besides, most of these nerfs are pretty minor and in no way character breaking
@@chandlermccoy1813 he's a beta tester, so he's had more time with the patch than most of the player base and actively tried to fight against some of these changes. Fleet is the only character he enjoyed playing and she admittedly feels pretty bad to control now. You really feel each change, especially the air speed
Gotta love how everyone was like, "Every matchup is annoying in this game!" The devs address it by targeting the annoying things, and then everyone complains how their character got nerfed 🤦♀️
ya its a crazy over reaction (aside from orcane and maybe fleet) and I think after a couple more balance patchs these will have absolutely been the right call
Every matchup still feels annoying,
@@iiiLOBOcrazy take tbh, this was a great patch imo , sure they overdid some things but overall most of the changes went in a good direction
Tbf that’s every game lol. Just look at Overwatch for a prime example
I see a lot of smash players upset about this patch being mostly nerfs. I come from melee but have been playing destiny 2 as a titan main for the past 4 years. I am used to nothing but nerfs. What a lot of people aren't understanding is why this is being done. They are looking past the fact its the entire roster and not just their main. The majority of the nerfs are to stop lame campy playstyles or just unfun to interact with moves from being too strong. I legit saw people saying they were quitting the game over this. Literally just reading the part before the character specific changes explains why the nerfs were made and even with a lot of the changes there are notes explaining why these changes were needed. But no some people just see their character in a vacuum.
I wonder if those Smash fans threatening to quit the game over the Fleet nerfs are actually fans of Rivals, or if they just liked using Fleet when she was broken.
It's like when Steve mains threatened to quit if their main was banned. Did they like Ultimate or just using broken Steve?
@@l.n.3372 I have no idea but I get a good kick out of it.
@x9x9x9x9x9
Do you think Rivals would be healthier without those "fair weather" Smash fans who threatened to quit if/when their main gets nerfed?
Also without sounding petty, but it seems like Melee players said it more often. Ultimate fans kinda accepted that their characters could get nerfed at any time when patches were ongoing. Melee players might not understand that feel haha
@@l.n.3372as a Fleet main, there is ONE change that makes a lot of us feel terrible with her, just like BBatts and CakeAssault who said they would be dropping her : nerfing her air acceleration by 35 fucking %, from 1.2 to 0.78. My roommate who plays Zetter and has been hating on her essentially since release said he was feeling bad for me now because DA is still a terrible move and Fleet’s previous overshoot and microspacing methods were gutted by this.
People need to understand that. The original rivals could get rather campy because if you get hit you just explode. We have shields now we do not want to recreate that
Some of the changes seem overtuned, but I've been in the Rivals community long enough to trust the devs. They do their research, and I can't think of any truly bad changes in the nearly decade-long lifespan of Rivals of Aether
My exact thoughts just without being in the rivals community, but any devs are better then nintendo
I really liked the Clairen changes. Smaller tippers is a noticeable nerf but more knockback on Ftilt and Bair is much appreciated. Glad those 2 moves were finally added to the game XD
Agreed I think they did a good job with her
Your voice sounded really familiar and fora while now I couldn’t put my tongue on it but it finally came to me, I was thinking of the Valorant coach OD26. Not exactly the same but pretty similar voice and even similar way of speaking too. Pretty random but anyway nice video lol
Ill take that comparison he makes some good content
The new (Rivals 1) Clone is insane. It can use down tilt, up tilt, nair, etc. A lot more potential for comboing and trapping opponents than the old one. Can't speak on what level the AI is, but it is definitely MUCH higher than the previous patch. It does moonwalk a ton now, which I've heard is done by the level 9 CPUs.
all good signs
Nerfs are a good thing if shit is dumb. Wrastor changes feel just fine to me and I like that shield is weaker
agreed on all fronts
I'm personally very happy about most of the changes. Especially the shield changes because holy lord such scrubby play from shield camping oml, ranked is a joke. Fleet getting nerfed is beyond fine and all the changes make sense. Imma miss being able to heavily pressure off stage with constant floats, but it was too strong and I'll keep it pushing as always. I complain about the game, but I'm never the type to quit just because something is frustrating. I'll quit if the game isn't fun anymore and the game is still extremely fun
Ya I think the shield changes are great, also glad to hear a fleet player not losing their mind, character took a big hit but I think you can still make her work
@@ProofBlockAnother fleet player, i really don't mind msot of the changes, i think they're pretty fair and they can always reverse some if them if the character is gutted. Only thing that really makes me sad is the air acceleration reduction. I loved fleet's movement and now it feels a lot less good. Wish it was at least a smaller nerf, like maybe going to 1.0.
I feel bad for Orcane mains (kind of) but I really love this patch. I actually enjoy playing as Clairen now because he doesn't feel overly easy and with shields being nerfed there's a lot more neutral. The game feels less spammy.
I thought Clairen was female?
@@l.n.3372 yeah she is
honestly agree with that, its a change in the right dirrection for sure
Came from ssbm, and overall I feel alot of these changes are a positive. The shield mechanic is a plus for someone like me who loves shield pressuring opponents and forcing options. Havent had any time to test how big of a difference it’ll make but excited for this and future updates/patches.
Glad they finally patched wrastors weakness, not having any good skins. 😂
Ya I think the shield change was a good call, and honestly all of these changes help the direction of the game even if it hurts the comp scene rn
and damn good thing that they did that. We do not need shitty power creep
ya im pretty happy with the patch overall
It is so fascinating how they are able to homogenize the cast with careful small thoughtful tweaks! Takes way more creativity than they get the credit for.
Ya people are not giving them enough credit this was deffo a change in the right direction
As a Fleet main I do indeed have a harder time killing on this patch, though overall she feels fine. I rely a lot more on down air which is one of her cheesier moves imo. I'm glad floating nair and fair spam is less of a thing but I think the patch only emphasized her polarizing matchups. Up air and air accel nerfs feel a bit extreme numbers-wise, and making down air a bit slower might have been nice for making her lower level playstyle less toxic.
Thats honestly exactly what I wanted to hear from this patch, forcing more value from dair where as before you just never needed it, it still may have been a little much but I like the general idea behind the changes
Loxodont foward S realy needed that change. Some times your oponent would get up before your animation ends.
Ya I’m curious to see if the changes are a net positive
Saying some hard nerfs for Orcane as a buffs its the most wild thing I've ever seen for this patch wtf
I don’t think they ever hid them as buffs
@ProofBlock I meant that you called (if I remember correctly, because I cant remember from the video rn, so I'm gonna put an example that I don't know if you truly said that in specific) that you mentioned downb stall hard nerf as a buff (for example), which doesn't make any sense to me because now he can't recover with turnaround > fair, and that was wild to me
@ i think I said it was better on stage but worse off stage, but it’s overall way worse
@@ProofBlock Oh got it. I can't see that as something good or better option on stage because you wont approach anyone with aerial/grounded downb (no hitbox at all) there is no point on approaching with that bc it will lose against everything (any hit, shield or parry and probably wont combo after hit with downb while approaching), before this, you could bait some options with down b reverse or just jumping and stalling as a "spacing tool" (used as movement), now, you need more stage space to create that situation while being less safe. (I can see your point even if I don't agree with that or have different opinion anyway)
Future will tell us anyway; for now, 0 representation at top 64 on yesterday's coinbox sadly for Orcane🤘🏻
The game is so much slower now with the Kraag nerfs. I never notice patches in platform fighters and this is the 1st time I genuinely felt an immediate difference. Vanilla Kraag is dead to me… I’m gonna miss Vanilla Kraag…
You can't auto pilot so now he's dead lol
You should probably feel patches. Otherwise, what was the point?
Also in a game where people say every matchup can be frustrating, the nerfs are trying to tone the frustrating aspects back a bit. Honestly, Kraag got it better than most of the cast imo, but I play mostly Kraag so maybe I'm overestimating other character's changes
Ya I for sure felt them as well (mainly with the ROCK NOOOOOO) but hes still super broken and is prolly still top three lmao
Kraggs normals (tilts and jabs) are just as fast, so you're basically saying you abused kraggs broken projectile frame data or cheesed a lot with fsmash. Good, you're the type of player that should be hit the hardest with these nerfs.
We smokin kragg tears tonight
As someone pretty new to the game and still just trying to get better (currently hovering around the upper side of silver), I've been maining Orcane and the changes are just so demoralizing to me. Everything just feels so sluggish and difficult to execute now. In concept I love Orcane's style and kit so I'd like if I didn't have to learn a new main but now that seems like basically a necessity at least for some time. Pretty disappointing for me as someone who had been enjoying the game so far.
Ya that’s definitely tough, the only silver lining is that he won’t stay like this for ever, but damn they hit him hard, I think you could still make him work and get to gold and beyond it’s just gonna take a LOT more effort and way less camping
As a Fleet and Orcane player, I feel kinda targeted. I don't care if they need to remove side B entirely, just give me my air acceleration back.
Im so sorry
Ranno still feels super oppresive, feels almost identical. Orcane above plat is unplayable, can't recover, has 0 neutral. Worst character in the game rn and murdered him entirely
agreed that ranno is the same EXCEPT off stage and when it comes to getting the kill, Ive been feeling it there for sure
@@ProofBlock yeah now he has no hit confirms against floaties, the only one was sour d-tilt to fair / usmash
21:50 you forget one thing : Fleet already has a main mechanic in wind chime. Every single fucking patch we are seeing nerfs to Fleet’s combos, onstage kill moves and by extension to wind chime. Dan is just forgetting he put this mechanic in the game
honestly I also forgot about that feautre alongside Dan
@@ProofBlock Fleet being a float character with an anecdotal wind chime is probably the most glaring symptome that the devs have no idea what they want some of their characters to feel like, which is something I don’t like at all
@ I think that’s a little harsh considering the chime is never actually over whelming and is balanced into the kit well, I think they have good base game plans built and players are just going above and beyond (like what normally happens)
There is no link to patch notes😢 "down below "
steamdb.info/patchnotes/16610493/
here they are and are also in the description now, thanks for reminding me
Fleet still needs 2 more nerfs
Which 2
17hrs later: hot fix lol
Whoopsie
F for fleet
poor one out
I agree with all changes except up air, maybe I just need to get better at edge guarding. Thankful for clairen’s nerfed up special
The fleet float change in effect will change literally nothing she can just ledgedash backwards from ledge to get her float back
It for sure matters, but yes fleet can haxdash to get her float back in fact I was practicing just that 3 days ago. In preparation lol. It still however makes ur recovery worse as you can be ledge trapped and potentially be force off stage again without float
Either way the point isn't that it literally doesn't matter the point is that you can basically do the same thing, it just requires being slightly more technical, and takes a little bit more time I should've worded it better.
I'm talking edgeguarding specifically as well, not recovery you're correct about that I should've also specified that.
it will for sure matter because you have to do that extra input instead of just grabbing ledge and jumping off, even if its only a small window its going to change your timings
i hate the complainers
These orcane nerfs are super rough. He is bottom 1 for sure now. The stall nerf is massive now you cant b-reverse it to fair to stage. Also rought that they didnt give him anything back while his back air still is super inconsistent.
Kinda weird that krag only gets 1 or 2 frames here and there but Orcane gets several on everything... And that for an already low tier character.
Orcane was not low tier prepatch.
Orcane wasn't bottok tier pal
@scriggle3564 no he was low tier. Like most people agreed he was bottom 3. Just above lox en fors. Who both got buffed this patch. And Orcane only lost stuff.
@@veggiewizard168 he was according to several top player tier lists. Usually hovering just above fors and lox. He wasnt bad low tiers in this games arent bad but he was bottom 3.
Wait can you actually just not do b reverse nair in time or are you just being dramatic, regardless huge nerfs that I think are good for the state of the game but not at all for comp, also kragg for more then a few frames here and there he is noticeably worse (still good tho)
Kragg too good? Better nerf Loxodont.
Sounds about right
Projectiles are still way too strong
If you are struggling against projectiles try parrying a lil more, super solid counter play
Ya i dont like this . I really enjoy a game where everyone is broken its balanced if everyone is super strong . It makes it different from smash
Everyone is still super strong for the most part, but I agree the main appeal of rivals is how Bs everyone is
@ weve had brawl .... its time to give us the opposite let me hit people and they die and let me get hit and die and lets plays like a 5 stock game
Kraag doesn’t feel like Kraag
I dont have over 100 levels with Kragg like I do Wrastor, but I am considering him as a secondary. The most noticeable thing to me is he pulls rock slower and that's about it
The "Translate to English" yt does to this comment is goofy
@@calebrobinson6406 he’s a lot slower now in the air and all his moves (especially back air) are way slower and don’t combo like they used to. Down b was an abusive tool off stage, but youll die if you run off stage and down b. Doing that was a good mixup to getting early kills but now you die
@@JustBasicJoseph Good.
@@simonanderson4858 Not oppiniated, but what makes you say that?
Also the player “Cake” wins an entire tournament without losing a single game gets the hardest of nerfs. Is this why fleet was nerfed? I’m sad 🥲
The nerfs look terrible on paper but I promise you that they will at most make her 15% harder to play in practice
@@nacligangThe air accel nerf makes her feel terrible enough that both Cake and BBatts said they were dropping Fleet, Cake going back to Fors and BBatts not entering tournaments on this patch
@@randomguy8107 If he wants to switch characters on a brand new patch without giving time to adjust the gameplan, then lol okay fine whatever
But not entering tourneys is actually a little immature and overreactive. Future patches will happen based on community feedback over time. Broadly speaking, strong-arming devs to undo nerfs literally right after they happen creates a very toxic player-dev relationship
Besides, most of these nerfs are pretty minor and in no way character breaking
they wanted to force him onto forsburn
@@chandlermccoy1813 he's a beta tester, so he's had more time with the patch than most of the player base and actively tried to fight against some of these changes. Fleet is the only character he enjoyed playing and she admittedly feels pretty bad to control now. You really feel each change, especially the air speed