We picked up a 1950 dodge wayfarer in October and rebuilt the entire brake system and fix a stuck valve did a tuneup and took this past Saturday to put fuel in and i love this car!
3 or 4 psi is all the fuel pressure you need/want, Keith. There may be a carb clean or overhaul in your future as well but you'll figure that out. Make sure your fire extinguisher is handy. Driving the larger pre-war cars I've found they they seem to like to be shifted earlier than more modern cars, first gear to gain some forward motion, second to maybe fifteen and third to OD cut-in. Try it. Nice job on the video.
You should install a sheet aluminum heat shield under the carb to deflect heat away from the float bowl. And carry 2 fire extinguishers that are readily accessable they are cheap insurance .
I'm guessing here, but the problem may be the heat riser valve between the intake and exhaust manifolds. It's probably stuck partially or fully open, allowing heat from the exhaust to boil the carb. If the problem were in the fuel supply, it would manifest almost immediately after starting since the pump is putting out 6 lbs. of pressure, not just under heavy load, I think.
I am very familiar with the heat riser valve and the issues it could potentially cause. I have seen the heat riser valve cycling properly in this car. When the bowl is full and float is up, the inlet valve is seated. It is possible that 6 psi won't unseat it, pushing the float down into a full bowl of fuel. I doubt it, but it is possible maybe. When throttle is wide open the engine is taking all the fuel the carb can give it. Float drops down as fuel level in bowl drops. Fuel at 6 PSI comes gushing in thru the inlet valve, which is wide open at this point. The bowl gets hammered with fuel and pressurized slightly. Fuel will spew out any orifice including vent tubes probably. This is what I think happened. When I travelled the same hill at ½ throttle, the problem was not created. We know pressure is too high, so we'll address that and then go from there. I do think the car is running rich. High FP will contribute to this.
My 38 desoto has been doing the same thing. My issue is driving on a strech of road at wide open throttle it coughs, bucks sputters like it's running out of fuel. It has an electric 6v fuel pump. Mechanical pump is disabled. I have fuel leaking from the carb too
Keith, you homed in on that problem licking-split. Do you suppose that the float is also in need of an adjustment or perhaps the float retainer is broken. I ended up making a float retainer out of stainless hose clamp. For some reason the brass one deteriorated allowing the float to climb upward and needle valve staying open, YIKES!
We know the fuel pressure is too high. So I'll start there and eliminate one problem at a time. If I am able to address fuel pressure, I will drive the car again and see if any other symptoms appear. Yes float valves and needles can also be problematic, but that is not a concern until I can get the pressure down.
My Dodge first run after 3 yr sit, 60 uphill! Now I know easy doesn't always apply. But not after you get to accept the age of the Dodge Coupe 218.7, now rebuilt, barely I mean no local help and knowledge
No. A fuel pressure regulator was added as a non-stock mechanical fuel pump was installed. It makes too much PSI. Pressures has been set to be regulated at about 4.5 psi.
Does the '38 Plymouth have a press. regulator? If so, maybe you could try swapping it and see what happens. (I should know if there's a reg. on the '38 Plymouth since I own one, but it's at my sister-in-law's house and I haven't been there for well over a year due to Covid! They did start it up for me a few times).
Stock, these cars did not have a pressure regulator. My ‘38 Plymouth does not have one. The mechanical fuel pump on this Royal may not be stock. Its making too much pressure. So a regulator is utilized.
Here's just a thought to ponder Keith, assuming dropping the pressure doesn't fix the issue. I'm curious what grade of gas you use? I use only 94 octane about 98% of the time. If I am too low on fuel to get to the Chevron, which is the only station locally that carries 94, them I'll settle for a bit of 91 to tie me over at the co-op. Since I have an ongoing slight carb issues, I'm a sponge for info on my Carter B&B EV1. Recently I was reading a thread that was about a decade old and they mentioned that the gas these days boils easier than the old school gas of the day. So one way of dealing with it, as mentioned in the thread, besides 94 octane was to lower the float bowl slightly.
Thanks Pete. My ‘38 Plymouth fuel issues and fixing them brought me a lot of experience. My ‘38 Chrysler only sees 94 octane non-ethanol fuel. Chevron. It does help. Tonight we shall be seeing results of addressing the fuel pressure. A new video is in the plan. Watch for it.
Just rebuilt my Carter B&B on my 51 Chrysler, Was amazed at how simple, and honestly kinda janky they are. Can tell the dashpot plungers likely go out in then left and right. And the dashpot was my issue, was split on the barrel gasket, so it didn't like feeding a squirt of fuel at throttle tip in.
There is a possibility that the incorrect spring was installed in the fuel regulator. I have two spring options arriving soon. Will swap in and re-test pressure. Turning the adjustment screw either direction made no difference.
1941 Chrysler owner here. What's up with the fuel pump putting out that much pressure? The original pump should not do that. Your guess that it's not stock is probably accurate. Couldn't see the pump well in your video, but is it possible you have one of the vacuum-assisted dual-action pumps that someone else installed? That's my opinion. At 15:18 in your video, I can just make out that it seems to have the boosted kind of pump. My parts book says you can have either a non-boosted pump, part #659488 or a boosted pump as follows: "C18 from Eng. No. 10172 to 23329 (without Overdrive) and up to Eng. No. 10172 (with Overdrive) and after Eng. No. 10172 (with or without Overdrive) use Part No. 860141. C18 after Eng. No. 23287 (with or without Overdrive) use Part No. 684582." Says here your carb. should be a Carter E6P5. I dunno, see if any of that info helps, maybe do some sleuthing. There are other fuel pressure regulators for these kinds of pressures, too. It's also often the case that rebuilt carbs frequently have the float set wrong with new needle and seat, which can give you overfull bowl like this.
The stock fuel pump came in the stash of spare parts, with the car. I don't know its condition at this time. The pump on car is labeled as "Car-bur-ator" brand. I will attempt to deal with it for the time being. I will consider checking out and rebuilding the stock pump at a later time. I made progress tonight getting the pressure regulator all sorted out. An update video is coming soon.
@@keithsgarage5831 - It would be wise to discard that aftermarket fuel pump and rebuild the original pump. The original pump was 'purpose built' for your car. That would be the best solution. The aftermarket pressure regulator is jury-rigging. Not good. I rebuilt an original pump for my 55 Desoto. Took me an hour. Then and Now in Massachusetts has kits with modern gaskets.
California in the houzz, Oooh, I mean the In n Out burger line, mmm, yummy ah thinking of my neighbors to the North, aaay!
We picked up a 1950 dodge wayfarer in October and rebuilt the entire brake system and fix a stuck valve did a tuneup and took this past Saturday to put fuel in and i love this car!
Lol - maybe a little weird! My dad and all his brothers were mopar guys and so am I. Love ‘em!
Overdrive IS awesome! Love old Mopars!!
3 or 4 psi is all the fuel pressure you need/want, Keith. There may be a carb clean or overhaul in your future as well but you'll figure that out.
Make sure your fire extinguisher is handy.
Driving the larger pre-war cars I've found they they seem to like to be shifted earlier than more modern cars, first gear to gain some forward motion, second to maybe fifteen and third to OD cut-in. Try it.
Nice job on the video.
You should install a sheet aluminum heat shield under the carb to deflect heat away from the float bowl. And carry 2 fire extinguishers that are readily accessable they are cheap insurance .
I love the white steering wheel and floor shift👍
Worden18
I'm guessing here, but the problem may be the heat riser valve between the intake and exhaust manifolds. It's probably stuck partially or fully open, allowing heat from the exhaust to boil the carb. If the problem were in the fuel supply, it would manifest almost immediately after starting since the pump is putting out 6 lbs. of pressure, not just under heavy load, I think.
I am very familiar with the heat riser valve and the issues it could potentially cause. I have seen the heat riser valve cycling properly in this car. When the bowl is full and float is up, the inlet valve is seated. It is possible that 6 psi won't unseat it, pushing the float down into a full bowl of fuel. I doubt it, but it is possible maybe. When throttle is wide open the engine is taking all the fuel the carb can give it. Float drops down as fuel level in bowl drops. Fuel at 6 PSI comes gushing in thru the inlet valve, which is wide open at this point. The bowl gets hammered with fuel and pressurized slightly. Fuel will spew out any orifice including vent tubes probably. This is what I think happened. When I travelled the same hill at ½ throttle, the problem was not created. We know pressure is too high, so we'll address that and then go from there. I do think the car is running rich. High FP will contribute to this.
This is why we coiled the fuel inlet pipe by several turns to provide a restriction
Beauty bud. Good score.
Keith love your car , those radial tires really make a differance with the ride . Shes a sexy car !!
Kieth in my minds eye I can see Humphrey Bogart hossing this car around in an old film nior movie. Way cool.
My 38 desoto has been doing the same thing. My issue is driving on a strech of road at wide open throttle it coughs, bucks sputters like it's running out of fuel. It has an electric 6v fuel pump. Mechanical pump is disabled. I have fuel leaking from the carb too
You have it GOOD. Princess Auto and Peavey Mart side by side.
Keith, you homed in on that problem licking-split. Do you suppose that the float is also in need of an adjustment or perhaps the float retainer is broken. I ended up making a float retainer out of stainless hose clamp. For some reason the brass one deteriorated allowing the float to climb upward and needle valve staying open, YIKES!
We know the fuel pressure is too high. So I'll start there and eliminate one problem at a time. If I am able to address fuel pressure, I will drive the car again and see if any other symptoms appear. Yes float valves and needles can also be problematic, but that is not a concern until I can get the pressure down.
Really enjoy your technical description of the carburator. (So?) I'm kicking myself for not getting more Mopars. Ps. You need a large pole barn.
My Dodge first run after 3 yr sit, 60 uphill! Now I know easy doesn't always apply.
But not after you get to accept the age of the Dodge Coupe 218.7, now rebuilt, barely I mean no local help and knowledge
Fuel system newbie here. Did it originally come with a fuel pressure regulator?
No. A fuel pressure regulator was added as a non-stock mechanical fuel pump was installed. It makes too much PSI. Pressures has been set to be regulated at about 4.5 psi.
Does the '38 Plymouth have a press. regulator? If so, maybe you could try swapping it and see what happens. (I should know if there's a reg. on the '38 Plymouth since I own one, but it's at my sister-in-law's house and I haven't been there for well over a year due to Covid! They did start it up for me a few times).
Stock, these cars did not have a pressure regulator. My ‘38 Plymouth does not have one. The mechanical fuel pump on this Royal may not be stock. Its making too much pressure. So a regulator is utilized.
Maybe you could find an od unit from a later plymouth for your 38...
What kind of transmission oil should I put into my 1952 Plymouth Cranbrook Three on the tree.
I heard 40 weight motor oil ?
No. Goto Napa in the USA, ask for 1 gallon GL-1 oil. Do not use motor oil. Synchromesh needs GL-1.
@@keithsgarage5831 Thank you !
Here's just a thought to ponder Keith, assuming dropping the pressure doesn't fix the issue. I'm curious what grade of gas you use? I use only 94 octane about 98% of the time. If I am too low on fuel to get to the Chevron, which is the only station locally that carries 94, them I'll settle for a bit of 91 to tie me over at the co-op. Since I have an ongoing slight carb issues, I'm a sponge for info on my Carter B&B EV1. Recently I was reading a thread that was about a decade old and they mentioned that the gas these days boils easier than the old school gas of the day. So one way of dealing with it, as mentioned in the thread, besides 94 octane was to lower the float bowl slightly.
Thanks Pete. My ‘38 Plymouth fuel issues and fixing them brought me a lot of experience. My ‘38 Chrysler only sees 94 octane non-ethanol fuel. Chevron. It does help. Tonight we shall be seeing results of addressing the fuel pressure. A new video is in the plan. Watch for it.
Just rebuilt my Carter B&B on my 51 Chrysler, Was amazed at how simple, and honestly kinda janky they are. Can tell the dashpot plungers likely go out in then left and right. And the dashpot was my issue, was split on the barrel gasket, so it didn't like feeding a squirt of fuel at throttle tip in.
Everyone else is weird lol we're the normal non cookie cutter people.
seems the more you adjusted the regulator, the higher the pressure went; maybe turn the screw the other way?
There is a possibility that the incorrect spring was installed in the fuel regulator. I have two spring options arriving soon. Will swap in and re-test pressure. Turning the adjustment screw either direction made no difference.
Sometimes, you have to rap those regulators with a piece of wood after making the adjustment, as they will occasionally stick.
Exact same thing happened to me the other day, and similarly it just went away and hasn’t come back
Careful. This is dangerous fire hazard.
@@keithsgarage5831 I always got my fire extinguisher under the seat, but still I’m gonna test my pressure like you to see if it’s making too much.
1941 Chrysler owner here. What's up with the fuel pump putting out that much pressure? The original pump should not do that. Your guess that it's not stock is probably accurate. Couldn't see the pump well in your video, but is it possible you have one of the vacuum-assisted dual-action pumps that someone else installed? That's my opinion. At 15:18 in your video, I can just make out that it seems to have the boosted kind of pump. My parts book says you can have either a non-boosted pump, part #659488 or a boosted pump as follows: "C18 from Eng. No. 10172 to 23329 (without Overdrive) and up to Eng. No. 10172 (with Overdrive) and after Eng. No. 10172 (with or without Overdrive) use Part No. 860141. C18 after Eng. No. 23287 (with or without Overdrive) use Part No. 684582." Says here your carb. should be a Carter E6P5. I dunno, see if any of that info helps, maybe do some sleuthing. There are other fuel pressure regulators for these kinds of pressures, too. It's also often the case that rebuilt carbs frequently have the float set wrong with new needle and seat, which can give you overfull bowl like this.
The stock fuel pump came in the stash of spare parts, with the car. I don't know its condition at this time. The pump on car is labeled as "Car-bur-ator" brand. I will attempt to deal with it for the time being. I will consider checking out and rebuilding the stock pump at a later time. I made progress tonight getting the pressure regulator all sorted out. An update video is coming soon.
@@keithsgarage5831 - It would be wise to discard that aftermarket fuel pump and rebuild the original pump. The original pump was 'purpose built' for your car. That would be the best solution. The aftermarket pressure regulator is jury-rigging. Not good. I rebuilt an original pump for my 55 Desoto. Took me an hour. Then and Now in Massachusetts has kits with modern gaskets.
@@ronwaters478 The incorrect fuel pump and the regulator are long gone. A stock diaphragm pump is being utilized.
Hmm, such a dilemma. Better sleep on it. Dreaming... ahh.... Electric Fuel Pump.....Electric Fuel Pump
Your lucky that wasn't up hill,