Name one war on Earth that doesn’t have any warcrimes? The irony of war crimes is that they can only really be enforced in peacetime. When the bullets start flying and people start dying left and right, no one cares what rules some old men came up with in Geneva two hundred years ago.
It’d be impossible to FIGHT a total war, much less win one. Once war on that scale starts, it rapidly gets out of control and takes on a life (or, death) all its own. War crimes probably don’t seem criminal when the other side has killed your family, friends, and comrades. I’d like to think I’d conduct myself properly and honorably in a war, but I also see sane behavior spiraling out of restraint once the killing starts. Guess I just don’t know. My only experience with war has been history books, the news, and scifi.
Foerost is such a popular destination: Naga Sadow invaded there in the Great Hyperspace War, (Ulic Qel Droma went there as Exar Kun's apprentice?), Darth Revan went there to replace/supplement the fleet made by the Star Forge, and so on. How did the Republic let such an important world fall under techno union control?
When I hear about Separatist war crimes, I always wonder how brutal the GAR and Republic Navy would have been without the Jedi leadership. If I did a scale on the four major factions by how many war crimes they did from least to most, I start with the Rebels, the Republic, the Separatists, and then the Empire, even if Grievous is worse than guys like Tarkin. I thus wonder how many Imperials studied Separatist commanders like Grievous and adopted their methods. The Jedi aren’t the best of leaders in war and it can be argued they never should have joined it, though without them the clone troopers likely would have way too much innocent blood on their hands. It could honestly be called one of the only good things about Jedi service in the war, humanizing the clone troopers, even if the inhibitor chips and the Empire made these efforts a waste. I’ll say the Separatists are worse than Rebels and the Republic, but the Empire always takes the top spot in government dirtbags, though the First Order might have surpassed them in that regard.
While more than a few Jedi were corrupted in their exposure to war, the majority of them were able to remain relatively good people and were able to minimize war crimes committed.
@@sambridgers9543 Exactly. Despite all their faults, the Jedi and many Clones did a lot of good during the Clone Wars, even if like Tristan said that once the Empire rose all or at least most of that good was wasted and undone.
The rebels they definitely have more then then the Republic. You're aware of how many crimes they committed on the daily just to survive against the empire right? Not counting the amount ot took to finally won?
Technically the rebbles are considered terrorists or in some cases "freedom fighters" not an army. In which case: "As a consequence of disagreement on terrorism in armed conflict, states have so far been unable to lay down a general definition of the whole phenomenon of terrorism in a general treaty."-I forgot my source, but it is legit. There is a law about terrorism in times of peace. Not good for the Star Wars universe as it is constantly at war. My country has known peace for about 12 years of it's history to date. I love America, but lets stop it and have cake!
I stand to attention and look around for an NCO or an Officer. It's my programming. However I like to blow thing up because I LIKE TO BLOW THINGS UP!!!!
General grievous: "I'm no errand boy, and i'm not in this war for dooku's politics i am the leader of the most powerful droid army the galaxy has ever seen."
It's a shame they never touched on any of these in the Clone Wars series to actually show the CIS were a threat and not just a collection of bumbled droids.
they werent interested in the clone wars . Background noise for story telling maybe but the progression of the war isnt really explained not to mention that the shows best episodes have almost no clone wars in it
The Core territory of any enemy nation will always fight to the bitter end, and this is no exception. Once the enemy comes close to the capital of any nation morale will shrink and break, and no amount of frantic loyalty and bravery will not change the fact that fighting will be the most bloodiest.
The government will, but not the people, exception: Loyalists. Perfect example: WWII. Germany was still "fighting" when the Soviets finally stepped in. Although only the loyalists and youth brigades were still operating under Hitler's orders. The army of the Vermacht, or defense power of the third Riech consisted of: the Hier- army(not all were loyal OR agreed with Hitler), Luftwaffa- Air Command, Crietzmera- Navy. (please excuse my spelling). Not everyone in the Vermacht were supportive of the Riech.
I imagine the Core Campaigns would have been very important to Palpatine. He needed to people of the core to feel a massive, overwhelming threat to their very survival... and then see he, Palpatine, gloriously push back the menace before rebuilding those worlds. They'd probably have been the first worlds in the empire to DEMAND stormtrooper garrisons on their world.
Upon hearing of Sev'rance Tann, I always like the idea that she survived and continued on to serve her role as the Supreme Commander of the Separatist Droids Army. Who knows, Malastare might actually joined the Separatists and the whole Mid Rim might actually ended up joining the Separatists Alliance when the negotiation with Kashyyyk goes well. Plus with the Battle of Umbara and the campaigns of terror against the Core Worlds, the Republic will be forced to surrender. P.S: Since it's a win-win situation for Palpatine, he can have the Separatists won the war like how the Sith of the past attempted to conquer the galaxy as well instead of doing what he did in the canon. That's why while it's a no-win situation for the Jedi, it's a win-win situation for Sidious.
While I do understand not wanting to adopt all of this into the Clone Wars TV series since, despite how much darker the show got as it progressed, starting with season 3 and onward, kind of symbolic of how the Clone Wars themselves got darker the longer they progressed thus the show did too, they still didn't want to go to dark with how many civilians they killed on screen, especially since the Republic did technically win the war so it makes more sense to show more victories then loses to reinforce that point, they still could have done a few of these things.
No the clone wars got a very bit annoying with the separatists being the typical cartoon villain that never wins. The show could have shown way more losses, and I thought the republic was struggling near the end of the war? At least the opening crawl in rots says so
@@bikesrcool_1958 I wasn't saying they shouldn't have shown more losses, I was saying why it made sense to show more Republic wins. In fact, like I said in my comment I felt they could have shown some of these losses and battles in some way to show the CIS as a decent threat, but that things still looked hopeful that the Republic could win because their victories outnumbered their losses. Also, yeah the opening crawl in ROTS is kind of miss leading, as the Republic was winning the war at this point, since this was near the end of the Outer Rim Sieges, in which the Republic reclaimed a lot of territory during the 6-month campaign.
@@zexalbrony4799 well the opening crawl came before, so maybe they just didn’t take it into account when making the show? Idk many sources tell me they were struggling or winning during the movie.
@@bikesrcool_1958 Yeah, the lore of the Clone Wars is very inconsistent at times, and I'm not just talking about Canon vs Legends, I'm talking in general, like the debate of whether Obi-Wan and Anakin where on Nelvan or Tythe before the battle of Courascant in Legends, and the whole debate over who was winning the war at what point or if it was a stalemet up until the end.
@@zexalbrony4799 I’ve learned to make up my own head canon, or mix together legends and canon to make sense of things. I think it makes a cool experience. But yes I agree with you
I honestly appreciate this channel a lot. I’ve been told all my life the prequels are garbage and George Lucas is a terrible director by the generation that grew up on the original trilogy and hated the prequels because it wasn’t just the OT done again. I feel validation that my generation that grew up on the prequel movies, then the original clone wars series and 2008 reboot clone wars series is now praising George Lucas, the prequels and Dave Filoni for how great and interesting the prequel era actually is. Growing up I felt like I was crazy for thinking Revenge of the Sith was the best Star Wars movie. It makes me now give pause to shitting on the sequel series and people that like it because I feel like I’m just repeating the cycle of hating the next trilogy because it wasn’t like the one I loved. If people and the younger generation find value in the sequels who am I to poo poo them?
At least the original trilogy and prequels had a plan and direction the sequels were just a mess and had no vision and nothing really connected but that’s just my opinion
I wasn't a kid back when the prequels were released, but I must admit, at least I never got into that bandwagon due to not being very familiar of that back in the day. We'll see how history treats them then.
I have heard that two , im older i remember longing for the prequels and i was expecting a lot of what we got . I grew up in the 80s so it was ot and books for me . But i remember around the time ( hier to the empire) thrawn trilogy came out , there was a star wars encyclopedia ( approved by Lucas) in it it had some details the we saw in prequels and clone wars . With some cosmetic differences. Like palpatine was named, but he was president instead of chancellor. Or the duel between anakin and obi wan in episode 3 is first mentioned in a new hope novel ( star wars novilisation) mustafar isn't named but described. ( vader is remembering it ) but the prequels were wonderful. And i remember the reviews at the time .( they all got 4 or 5 stars in empire film magazine) very good or excellent. It really was a load minority. I spent a long time in line for the first screening of each with fans ( they were all happy) i remember episode two a friend wanted to go again immediately. I declined and offered to go again in a couple of days . I know many ot fans who wont even watch clone wars or read a book . Its foolish imo .
I don't have that much love for the Sequels, but the Prequel hate bandwagon from 2014 to 2017 (that's when it was at its zenith) almost brought me to the point where I had enough arguing about Star Wars. 2018-2019 cemented it, though, so I won't continue the cycle.
I wouldn't have had much of a problem with the Sequels if they didn't play out like someone's bad/unimaginative fanfiction, and weren't blatently trying to suck up via nostalgia for the OT.
Grievous's brain was heavily tampered with by cybernetics when they turned him into a cyborg. His free will was compromised and we don't know exactly what he'd do without those modifications so I don't know if we can objectively blame him for this war crimes commited during the Clone War and call him 'most evil' based on that.
Really odd having a fleet of only one kind of warship, no matter its quality and make. Even more so if said fleet fought against another fleet with the same incomprehensible idea.
Fun fact: The entirety of Staw Wars canon, and beyond happend a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. Which I think means that the Geneva Conventions that "some" countries recognize in the 20th and 21st centuries on Earth wouldn't apply.
Okay, the Separatists did have legitimate concerns sit by the Galactic Republic which only after the Battle of Naboo started to try and regain some law and order over the chaotic Outer Rim filled with crime gangs and corrupt corporations that they practically ignored for centuries. I’ll grant fans of the Separatists this. However you can’t declare the true members of the movement to be so innocent of everything the Separatists did. Plenty of them had no problem with the corporations making and running the military despite the fact they actually did most of the horrible things in the Outer Rim while the Senate at most just looked the other way until the Battle of Naboo. Like the Republic senate they also surrendered power to Dooku, practically making him a dictator by the end of the war. And while they keep claiming they have moral superiority because they’re soldiers are mostly droids instead of clone troopers indoctrinated into the Republic military and practically being slaves, droids have shown themselves to be sentient and feel emotions like humans. It could be argued that droids are also forced by their creators to become soldiers. Any defective droids are likely deactivated and reprogrammed if not destroyed. And if battle droids aren’t actually sentient, this introduces a problem that science fiction always covers. If a machine without any sentience is deployed into a battlefield, what happens if it’s given controversial orders? A machine can kill as many civilians if not more than a regular soldier just because it was programed too. And then let’s get on with the political system. The Separatists wanted a decentralized government while allowing corporations to create and run the military. It is practically a recipe for civil conflict. If the corporations don’t make a power move or at least use their troops to influence planets just like before the war, planets with differing ideals will turn on each other. Remember, the one thing uniting the Separatists was the Galactic Republic as an enemy. Umbara may have left the Republic because it’s Senator was murdered, but planets in the CIS are going to have opinions across the spectrum when the planet goes back to creating weapons of war to be sold across the CIS. They were warmongers and did have a caste system. I doubt a lot of Separatists had high opinions about the Geonosians and worlds like Onderon and Mon Cala had their own issues with the CIS. Separatist sentiment is understandable, but even if the CIS got rid of Dooku, Grievous, and Palpatine, it is unlikely things would work out. Separatist worlds would have to fight the light of the droid army of corporations didn’t like them, the difference in ideals would be recognized as being extremely vast for the Separatists, and thus I feel it is likely that the Separatists would become as corrupt as the Republic if not fractured by civil war. It just wasn’t sustainable in my eyes. Heck, maybe someone should make a view analyzing how life would be like in the CIS. Separatism does have its perks on the surface, but you could say the CIS did it completely wrong.
I've argued similar points. Many claim of Palpatine wasn't in charge the Republic would have been just overwhelmed and lost easily but Palpatine controlled BOTH sides. The CISs largest attacks on the core worlds (durges Lance & the Battle of Corusant) the CIS only got in those positions with Palatine providing special assistance like secret hyper space lanes. While some of the Republics largest victories actually came about despite Palpatine helping the CIS. Examples like the destruction of the Malevolence and gaining an alliance with the Hutts. (There are other battles/events as well) the Jedi and clones were underestimated by Palpatine many times during the war winning battles they weren't supposed to. Some may argue that without Palpatine that a clone army would have never been made. But that's not true a Jedi was the one who originally ordered the clone army but he was killed on his way to negotiate the deal and choose a donor after he was killed Dooku stepped in and chose Jango (due to being famous for killing many Jedi) then arranged the army to have biochips installed for obedience. If Palpatine wasn't in charge the clone army would have still existed it just may not have been the Jango clones that we know and love. And the clone army would have just been used for the first few years of the war as without the sith they would likely have ordered a draft in place to build the army larger in a short period of time for a lower cost. On the flip side if the sith didn't control the CIS who knows if the corporations would have sided and funded the entirety of the CIS military.
@@mouse3872 I do wonder if Sifo-Dyas would have actually allowed the clone army to be handed over to the Galactic Republic. He was loyal sure, but there are ten years in between the creation of the clones and the war. Anything could happen to change his mind. What if Dyas decided instead that the army was specifically for the Jedi Order. Though technically there really wouldn't have been a clone army without Palpatine. Dyas foresaw in the Force of a dark evil and while I argue against others that Dooku was indeed evil, its safer to assume the evil Dyas saw was Palpatine. Of course Dyas then mistook his vision and made the army with Palpatine secretly took over with the inhibitor chips after ordering Dooku to murder him. Speaking of which, I know Dooku wanted to be discreet but the fact he didn't decide to take on his friend one-on-one is a little cold. This guy was his best friend and yet he doesn't even do the dirty deed by his own hands? Granted, the same thing happened with Assaj Ventress. Maybe Dooku is more politician than I give him credit for. Anyways if Dyas never had the vision he never would have wanted to make the clone army. While anti-Republic sentiments were on the rise, Dooku only weaponized them after becoming Palpatine's apprentice. He never pulled Serenno out of the Republic before the war even if he kept the planet distant from Core World politics and corruption. There is a good chance the war may not have happened without Palpatine, though I think instead of a war there would have been a violent revolution to overthrow the government like we've seen on Earth.
Mate the entirety of Star Wars battles could be best described as "War Crimes and You! How to understand and execute your own war crime!" And it would have a special interlude by Anakin. None months late, but whatever, it just appeared on my feed.
I really wish the clone wars went above and beyond to to pick this but fortunately the original 2003 claim was depicted the scale of a hint of operation Durge’s Lance
Everyone mocking CIS supporters need to go watch Geetsly's other vids on the Separatists. Ultimately every side in a war commits warcrimes. Having a leader with nefarious ulterior motives, having commanders or bad actors who commit war crimes, etc... does not immediately mean that side is in the wrong. Ultimately the sides of the Clone Wars can line up by 2 things: do you judge a movement/faction by their worst crimes regardless of their end goals? And, do you prefer enforced order at the end of a gun, or self-determination taken violently? Ultimately everyone's stance on the Republic or Separatists will be determined by those questions. If it's just a matter of balancing 'who got the most number of villain points', then it's still close, but clearly you'd say the Separatists were bad and Republic good. If you prefer order and a 'unified nation', especially if you like the idea of 'Murica 'democracy' at gunpoint, Republic looks pretty great... you can always vote-out Sidious, right? But me, personally... there are two levels of good and bad in any conflict: the individual and the global. A nation can be entirely in the right and justified in their goals and reasons for waging war, while the multiple people who make up that nation may commit good or evil acts (Vietnam?). Likewise a nation can be led to an evil goal, while still having heroic individuals and commanders in its ranks (Iraq war? etc). If you can look at the Clone Wars from that mindset, the CIS are obviously the good guys, who happen to have corrupt military leadership and bad actors that need to be purged, while the Republic is entirely in the wrong, despite having (misguided) heroic characters working for them and doing good actions now and then.
because you have been watching the reports from Ukraine. Grevious is more like Osama. Singled out as being different and made to seek out acceptance outside his fmily.
If the sepratists had managed to breach the defenses of the core they could have done immense damage to the republic war effort which would have been countered only by massive campaigns on par with the outer rim sieges in order for them to turn back the tide. The citizens of the republic must have been very thankful for the GMR for stopping grevious onslaught
Would you be willing to do a video explaining why the battle of Malacor-5created a wound in the force but other tragedies, like the destruction of Alderaan or the Blue Shadow Virus Plague didn’t? I find that there are much more catastrophic disasters than Malacor-5 but they never create a force wound.
why isn't it called grevious's lance, that's like having a campaigned called cad bane's crusade name the whole massive military campaign and name it after some bounty hunter you hired for a bit
Unfortunately general grievous, plot armor was the only thing that held the movement back. Shame. Would like to see the separatists as the head government.
Like we Separatists say, they had a great and wholly justified cause, and Grievous himself has more than enough of a cassus beli to fight against the Jedi and Republic on a generalized level, its just that between Grievous being consumed by his rage and the sith interference (I choose to think Dooku and Grievous would both happen even if Palpatine didnt exist or manipulate things as much, just in different ways is all), and the plot armor of the heroes? Yeah, there was no hope the Separatists would win.
@@mill2712 Mhm, and unlike the confederacy of US history, this one had an actual just cause behind it, now if only the civil war confederacy of the real world didn't botch the terminology and make you risk sounding like a neo confederate out of context when praising the CIS lmao.
Does anyone want more clone wars like I don’t think anyone would complain dropping 3 arcs a year and it could never end because the clone wars can do a story on anyone
Because the CIS stans keep attacking Anakin and Obi-Wan for false surrender, while ignoring that Grievous and the other Separatist commanders did much worse. Hypocrisy is one of the strongest violations on any internet community.
@@TheSuperRatt You don't know how many excuses I've seen made in favor of CIS commanders. And I'm not just talking about the CIS stans. I bet you that the Empire fanboys discrediting the Jedi as kidnappers will be trying to make an excuse for the Inquisitors.
@@sambridgers9543 honestly, if I see one more person call the Jedi kidnappers knowing good and well that's not true. If you don't know by now that Jedi had express permission to take younglings, it was seen as a great honor, almost all inductees had fulfilling meaningful lives in the order, and that they were free to leave at any time, you're just ignoring the lore because you hate Jedi
It’d be great if we could fight future wars this way. Not with spaceships, clones, and droids; just imagine if we fought wars with storytelling, instead.
Ahh yes, unimaginable viloance in star WAR'S. Who'd a thunk it. Lol jk jk. There's only so much content keep up the terrific info. Guess which bridge I live under? 🤪
It's easy to overlook Separatist war crimes, when canon celebrates equivalent Republic War Crimes, especially when done by the Jedi, especially when done by Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi.
The 2D Clone Wars series General Grievous, in his absolute peak form, would basically be a walking war crime and considering how he 'debuted' on Hypori, there would be many a battle that would have been absolutely horrifying for the Galactic Republic. Hypori was atypical of later battles in the Clone Wars where so many Clones and Jedi would be seen in one place at one time. The Clone Wars were young. The Acclamator was still the fighting backbone of the Republic Navy. The Phase I Clone Troopers were bravely if not always astutely led into massive clashes using vast numbers of ships and vehicles. I know that none of that series is canon anymore, but were it still so, the continuity of _that_ version of the characters, would make for a rather sobering situation on many Republic worlds. Only the very best of the Jedi Masters were able to stop _that_ Grievous. While I'm no Grievous mega fan or anything, I like his character within reason though happen to greatly prefer Count Dooku. Grievous in the 2D series would be the kind of character that could just pounce on a string of Republic stronghold worlds and _expect_ to get the better of the encounter. In the 3D version, not so much (he is outsmarted by Jar Jar Binks, and consequently captured -- albeit at some cost (Tarpals) -- by the Gungans. He got magna-nerfed in the 3D series. Ultimately, there had been a semblance of some continuity between 2003/2004 (2D Clone Wars) Grievous and the version of him (immensely nerfed by George Lucas, entirely deliberately, as he had not liked the 2D series much for dubious reasons in my opinion) There _had_ been a sense that, yes, while cowardly and relatively easily dealt with in 2005's Episode III, that he was at least in that 'state' because of his encounter with Mace Windu. For a few years at least (before later 3D productions came into being), that was okay in the 'wild west' days of G-canon (George Lucas canon) before the more rigid (many might say, draconian) Disney Canon (or D-canon, if you will, as unintentionally phallic as that sounds now I read it back) Lucas didn't like the 2D series but openly took things from it, like Grievous. Grievous was made for that series by his artists and approved by Lucas. As were the Magna Guards etc. There was some uncertainty on what role a lot of the characters really ought to have. Asajj Ventress was by and large 'recycled' from older concepts for a 'Sith Lady' for The Phantom Menace/Episode I, and generally a 'variation on the theme' for _another_ character eventually discarded; Komari Vosa. Dooku's original 'dual lightsaber wielding female apprentice'. In the 2002, Episode II tie-in game, 'Bounty Hunter', Jango Fett is hired by Count Dooku to take Komari Vosa down. While fully-capable of strolling onto the spoopy moon of Bogden, Kohlma -- full of the rampaging 'Bando Gora' death cult aka annoying, personal space adverse methhead creatures -- by himself, and killing her easily. Dooku was just paying for Jango to do it, to test his mettle and see if he was good enough to become the template for the Clone Army. He (just about, while nearly being killed a few times) managed it. Komari was considered 'unstable' by Dooku, though in reality, he'd been told to kill her by Palpatine. Yet again, this concept was recycled with Dooku having to order the execution of Asajj Ventress, later. But for a time, the literal origins of the dual red-bladed lightersabers Ventress wielded, were Komari Vosa. When Dooku gives these to Ventress on Rattatak in 2003's Season 1 of the 2D animated Clone Wars series, those in the know would understand those had belonged to Komari Vosa originally. Indeed, if you'd just played that game in 2002 (I didn't at the time, only playing it much later on PS4), I imagine you'd think, 'oh cool, those were Komari's from Bounty Hunter'. Not something I picked up on at the first time of seeing the 2D Clone Wars back in the day, when they first released, but something that -- at least for a time -- was understood to be the origins of Ventress's lightsabers. Before the dark times, before the Disney Empire...(2012 onward) I explain that, because similarly, Grievous was altered quite a bit from his 2003 debut, by the time of Episode III in 2005. Lucas had an axe to grind with the whole show and while happy to take from it what he wished to keep like a material pool, the reality was, even before Disney bought the franchise from Lucas, the 2D series was on pretty thin ice canonically. It wasn't upheld in the highest regard canonically, even back then (ironically, in spite of massive fan support to make it fully canon as it was on release in 2003 and 2004) Ideas of the 'Sith Lady' being the main Sith for Episode II, returned after Darth Maul won the preference of Lucas in the design phases in pre-production, and yet once again, Lucas shelved that idea and wanted Sir Christopher Lee in his prequel trilogy. Dooku's character materialised fairly rapidly between 2001 and 2002, and it seems to me at least that Lucas was 'aware' of Lee's performance (so popular) of Saruman in 2001's The Fellowship Of The Ring (Peter Jackson, New Line Cinemas) This is speculative, and ideas regarding Dooku or something approximating him might have been around a bit longer into 2000. However, whatever the case, Lucas wanted the elder statesmen over the Sith Lady concept, and so her concept art (now in a more advanced form) was parlayed into the newer character of Asajj Ventress for the Clone Wars cartoon. In my view, to the best of my knowledge so far, I think that Dooku's character was created relatively rapidly and Lucas wasn't remotely hiding the thing he was invoking the most regarding 'Count Dooku' as a character name, in relation to the actor portraying him; Lee was already immensely famous for Hammer Horror films, notably playing Dracula (Count Dracula) numerous times. Count Dooku....Count Dracula. It's not exactly rocket science. Therefore Dooku becomes the believable face of a Separatist movement, whereas Ventress (the many times revised outcome of earlier characters like Komari Vosa and earlier art designs going back as far as 1998/1999. A credible, elder statesman, and powerful presence on-screen. Yet of course, the somewhat glib nature of his naming didn't matter in the long-run. Dooku is still a great character. But I'm quite sure that Sir Christopher Lee was very well-aware what Lucas was getting at (even before he once put vampire teeth on a Yoda model to tease Lee on set during the filming of AOTC) I mean, if nothing else, the _cape_ is a dead give away... Anyhow, Grievous is a funny one, because Lucas clearly wanted Dooku to have generals and while Ventress was one of them, he wanted something else that reflected the Droid Army more directly. Whereas Ventress was a reflection of the Sith, Grievous was a reflection of the Separatists, and more specifically, their Droids. This is somewhat unfortunately ironic, considering how Grievous is later portrayed to casually resent the dumb droids under his command, while still essentially being representative of their aesthetic far more than Ventress ever was. And yes, there is a glaringly obvious, 'higher abstraction' in what Grievous is meant to evoke and represent; he is very clearly, 'proto-Vader', at least with regards to his life support systems and 'more machine now than humanoid' visage. Just as Dooku reflects a proto-Vader in terms of the fallen Jedi (like a fallen Angel, or disgraced Knight of real-world yore), the political firebrand turned monster through misguided idealism, twisted by Sith ideology (by the same Dark Lord of the Sith, Sidious), Grievous is the _machine_ aspect of what Vader became. A foreshadowing of the deliberate body horror of a once proud organic lifeform, a sentient being, reduced to machinery parts and life-support systems. A twisted form of life, an abomination. An insult to the Force (which when one thinks about it, makes the 'Mods' in Book of Boba Fett seem even more bothersome and illogical in-universe than they already are, but I digress) Star Wars _always_ leaned into the idea of the implicit body horror of being, 'more machine now than man', and there was a much more tangible concern over this back in the 1970's as far as I've been able to glean. To modern audiences, we take this sort of thing for granted now, but in the 1970's the idea of such mergers of the living flesh and metallic machinery was far more viscerally disturbing then than we might now realise. There was a growing concern of the rise of technology, with many reactionary takes and dystopian sci-fis in the 1950's through to the 1970's. Indeed, most sci-fi and space fantasy in the early 1970's, had stagnated into either being overtly depressing dystopian worlds, suspicious of machinery and heavily emphasising technological devastation (often in an industrial manner), _or_ being something more puerile, tacky and sparkly. The panic of worlds ruined by industry, the fear of atomic weaponry, the bleak albeit depressingly reasonable paranoia over Armageddon; contrasted with more psychedelic and sometimes downright cheesy, silvery spandex and glittery wig images of some dystopian future. Either it was too bleak, or it was too clean. Too sterile and obnoxious. Too laughable. Then Star Wars came along and changed _everything_ but that is a whole other story. Lived in worlds; grimy and 'taken for granted in-universe' so to speak. 'Grungy' and _old_ feeling. Something about a galaxy that had been using such technology for so long, it had fully-taken it for granted by the time we get to see it, and something about a galaxy that felt familiarly ancient and recognisable in the myths and legends of real-world yesteryear. A nostalgia for something that never was, because of a connection and evocative link to something that really was, once upon a time. [1/3]
[2/3] On paper it seemed mad, just another dumb run of the mill sci-fi. A space smuggler with a dog for a co-pilot and a space princess begging for help from an old space wizard. An evil Empire fighting a rebel force in space, a totalitarian regime. In many ways it ran close to the bone in how it seemed to be portraying dystopia, like so many others lazily did; but Star Wars was different. It was lightning in a bottle, and surprised almost everyone in 1977. Even while being filmed, 'STAR WARS' (1977), (later Episode IV A New Hope, by 1980) essentially seemed like a disaster to some people working on it. Sir Alec Guinness, portraying Obi-Wan Kenobi/Old Ben Kenobi, himself was greatly concerned his career had hit rock-bottom to be on such a production. He was a classically trained, thespian actor, and not for nought was he worried about being on a sci-fi film. Not only had there long been derision for the genre, often unfairly but it existed nonetheless (something that must be factored in, looking at the times in which Star Wars first released), but the entire genre had been nose-diving in terms of public popularity. Many stories were too silly, too bleak, too bland or too boring. Constant rehashes of this or that mad cheese-fest written on one drug or another (have you seen Zardoz? lol) To all the world, Lucas's movie was a mad gamble for the American film studios, and they thought so too; in 1976, they withdrew funding and studio access to Lucas, right in the middle of filming. Desperate to find somewhere to finish his film, he turned to British film studios like Elmstree and Pinewood, and they accepted him in with open arms (albeit themselves, also growing concerned with his seemingly pathetic production) Everyone involved in the filming and half the actors (including Harrison Ford) were worried it'd be a complete turkey. Thankfully, the Original Trilogy would blossom beyond the wildest dreams of the cast and crew, and a galaxy of stars were born. Sir Alec Guinness was rewarded beyond his wildest expectations for the film, which ironically (perhaps at least partly to his own chagrin, in spite of the money he was getting post-1977, levels of money he'd never had before in his already long acting career on film and television; he'd have still been famous and well-remembered, even without Star Wars, but that boosted his profile recognition to a new generation for sure, even more than, 'The Bridge On the River Kwai' did two decades earlier in 1957) made him a _lot_ of money. Shrewdly, he'd demanded a 1% royalties cut from anything made regarding Star Wars, before accepting the role. It seemed like a small demand to him at the time in 1976, because the film seemed to be a flop in the making that he regretted being a part of initially. But oh boy did that royalties cut (on top of his fee) pay off big. Bigger than he could have dreamed. Until 2000, when cancer sadly took his life, Sir Alec Guinness had been enjoying Star Wars royalties since 1977. Although Star Wars tailed off in popularity for a decade following Return Of The Jedi in 1983, this still meant a huge amount of money winged it's way to Sir Alec Guinness regardless, for almost a quarter of a century. Talk about a return on investment. He had been worried it would be 'the film to end his career'. For many -- especially those not from his generation but later -- it came to _define it_ from their points of view. He would probably have un-ironically disliked that fact, but a fact it was; many folks only know about him _because_ of Star Wars, whether he liked that or not. This was reflected later to a lesser extent with how Sir Christopher Lee was brought to a whole new generation of fans, thanks to the combined powerhouses of the Star Wars prequels and perhaps even more so, The Lord Of The Rings (Peter Jackson) trilogy, running partly concurrently in the early 2000's mostly. The Machine I refer to, is how many would have seen the likes of Vader. Much as the Daleks and perhaps even more the Cybermen, in Doctor Who, were feared for their monstrous disregard for organic life and their brutalism. Vader echoes such sentiments of earlier sci-fi like that, which almost instinctively held such objects and concepts in suspicion. Grievous, is a clever way of making a prototype for Vader in the prequels and Clone Wars era, albeit perhaps showing this dynamic in juxtaposition with the naturalistic Jedi. Grievous hates the Jedi, not just because of some dark backstory and...well, grievance....but because he symbolically represents everything that is anathema to the Jedi, just as much as the Sith are in a more magical and alchemical way. Grievous is the Machine. Grievous is the degradation of life. Grievous is the abomination against nature. A tragedy yes, but one so far gone that he cannot possibly be saved. He has become Death, a monster used like a deliberate attack dog by the Sith.
[3/3] Grievous's campaigns in the Core Worlds and beyond to the Mid and Outer Rim, are less coherent in the 3D series, in spite of it having much more time. Grievous would and could be easily written in a far darker and unsettling manner, if given half the chance to be. Unfortunately, by the time we see him in the 3D animated series, he has more or less been reduced to a repetitively incompetent coward with a longstanding coughing problem. The nerds in power like Filoni explained it away, with apologist writing, but it didn't need to be that way. It was just them keeping Grievous how Lucas wanted him (nerfed) as per his ROTS depiction. In my opinion, that was just plain wrong. Grievous _how he should have been_ that is to say, how he was in the 2D series, would make for something far, far more terrifying than what we got in Episode III. I get the logic that he was a washed up has been compared to earlier iterations of himself, but the 3D Clone Wars made him seem ridiculous sometimes. Yes, he still had some good feats, but he got humiliated a lot and even verged on comic relief at times. Grievous in the 2D version was a nightmare. It seems Lucas mainly disliked his ability in that to make light of fully-trained Jedi Knights and even Jedi Masters, as if they were not particularly challenging. I get that, but I still think something like Grievous would arise from time to time in the SW galaxy, and cause problems for the Jedi, for all their power and skill. Grievous should really have been kept the way he was, butchering his way through entire platoons of Clone Troopers and being a living nightmare beast for a lot of Jedi. But he was reduced to a bit of a disappointment in ROTS and then outright humiliated in The Clone Wars. He has his moments, but too often he gets dabbed on by other characters way too easily. If I were to write ideas for battles (new or known) regarding the Clone Wars, Grievous would be a serious and credible danger. Wherever he went, the Clones would be having a very bad day. The Jedi, even, would be trying hard to contain his offensives but failing repeatedly. Besides the fact that I always thought the Clone Wars should have lasted 10 years, not 3, the ideas are still plentiful. In the 10 year long Clone Wars concept (which I think is more realistic on several levels), Grievous would have a lot of time to grow into his element and become an increasing threat to more and more Jedi. He'd start 'small' killing average Jedi Knights and padawans on random, far flung battlefields, but then advance to taking on notable Jedi Knights and Masters. Eventually he'd cross blades with the Jedi of the High Council, and start killing some of them in various campaigns, forcing them to be replaced before their time. I'd write many last stands of Republic forces on numerous worlds, and write different concepts for known battles. Grievous would become a horrifying spectre far more than he already was considered. He'd not make clownish mistakes, he'd be a genius at all times and only truly driven back by those few Jedi capable of containing his onslaught in a head on fight. Dooku's training would be intense. He'd demand a lot from Grievous, and usually Grievous would go above and beyond, in my version, fanatically loyal to Dooku and convinced by his politics (not scorning and disregarding 'Dooku's politics' as he scoffed at Kenobi in TCW that time; "I'm not in this war for Dooku's politics!") Well, in my version, he would partly be in the war because of being so strongly supportive of Dooku's anti-Republic rhetoric and oratory. Dooku would be much more of an inspiration to Grievous, than simply a pragmatic overlord whom he 'tolerated' because he had to. Dooku was the kind of powerhouse that could quite casually destroy Grievous in a fight. Hence why his training should make him far more dangerous to a wide range of Jedi, regardless of the fact Grievous doesn't use the Force. His augmentations made up for a lot of that. Not all, no, but he'd be this anomaly to the bulk of Jedi. Too fast to match blade to blade, too frenzied and relentless hold off, too merciless to take lightly and too horrifying to ignore. He would not be necessarily as 'skilled' as a swordsman, just so fast that the amount of hits he could land would deluge many Jedi, more suited to generalist training and blaster deflection. Grievous would be able to shock many Jedi who'd never met him before. His element of surprise would be vital to him. I'd write Grievous to be a tactical and strategic genius, whom could take on most Jedi. His nemesis would still by Kenobi, yet he would be a credible savage with a set of lightsabers all the same. Dooku would not expect him to ever defeat Mace Windu or Plo Koon, perhaps, though he'd certainly be wondering if Grievous could kill Kenobi or young Skywalker. Perhaps he'd meet his match with Cin Drallig or Luminara Unduli. Or maybe this time Shaak Ti would defeat him. He would never beat Yoda (even Dooku himself struggled with Yoda) But still, most Jedi would not get anywhere near Dooku, and the same argument could be made for Grievous. I think, very sincerely, that Lucas underestimated this with regards to the average Jedi in the Jedi Order at the time. Most of them ain't stopping Ventress or Grievous 1 vs 1. Not _that_ (2D version) General Grievous. In the 10 year long Clone Wars concept scenario, I'd have Grievous debut at the same point in the timeline regarding the Battle of Hypori (it's non-canon now but I don't care, it's very interesting) But the war would last much longer. Seven years longer. This seems more realistic to me. The legends and horror stories relating to Grievous, would be far more serious for that scenario. He'd have killed hundreds of Jedi and been involved in a score of major victories against the Republic and Jedi. More than he already was. Random garrisons would go missing on numerous worlds, and evidence of wiped out units would be found in his wake. Smaller Clone army groups fighting all over the galaxy, would be routinely annihilated out of the blue by the sudden arrival of Grievous and shock forces under his command. Entire fleets of Republic warships would vanish, entire bases would be destroyed and lost with all personnel days or even weeks before anyone realised. His war crimes would be as legion as his forces, and his forces would achieve massive strategic victories. Nevertheless, Palpatine would never let him get too successful for his purposes and plans. Ironically Grievous would merely be disposed of, much as in the final outcome, by Kenobi. Even so, Grievous would instil fear in the hearts and minds of trillions; just as Palpatine would hope for. Dooku would always give Grievous rigorous training in sparring and be quick to fearlessly berate and belittle Grievous during those sparring matches, to goad him to think more decisively and keenly. Kenobi would finally slay Grievous on Utapau, but not with his own blaster, with his lightsaber (via decapitation and bisection both) Kenobi would cut his head off before cutting his cyborg body in half through the organ sacs, and then force push his remains into the sink hole, even as his eyes finally closed. Instead of immediately abandoning his forces, Grievous would attempt to hold for a while, killing a _lot_ of Clones personally, but eventually he would be driven back by AT-TE fire and chased by Kenobi, after Kenobi had defeated all of his dozens of Magna Guards (I'd have a lot more there to basically try and overwhelm Kenobi, leaving Grievous able to command his forces) Kenobi would defeat them and then cut his way through Battle Droids to get to Grievous, at which point (also seeing his forces slowly being pushed back, Grievous would decide to retreat to a second line of defence inside Pau City. He would not just B-line for _Soulless One_ (his ship) but he'd turn and fight repeatedly, showing wild desperation and frustration with his Separatist cause seeming to be burning to the ground around him. Clone losses would be appalling, but their sheer numbers and skill would doom the garrison. Nevertheless, Grievous would nearly kill Kenobi twice in their duel, although ultimately being defeated by the Jedi Master. Simply outfought, outclassed and outplayed, and then finally slain. Grievous's remains would sink to the bottom of the water of the sinkhole, never to be seen again.... _or would they_ **Dun dun duuun** lol (nah, but the dramatic effect is kewl)
It bothers me when people mention war crimes in Star Wars. Their universe is different and I've never seen or read about a Geneva Convention or United Nations in their timeline that labeled these actions war crimes. Extreme measures just happen in war and we have to accept that
Geets has a video about this and how there had been something similar to the Geneva Covention. Also according to their morals according to George Lucas is similar to ours so a war crime here would be there for most cultures
The republic was overrated. So was the Jedi order. The separatists were not as bad as people make them out to be. Geetsly’s however, remains as impressive as ever
There were good people in it. But at the same time, it was corrupt from basically the start with key members prolonging the war for their own financial gain. Then you have high ranking leaders like Grievous and Ventress who essentially kill for sport.
Princess Leia: Why you STUCK UP, HALF-WITTED, SCRUBBY-LOOKING, NERF-HERDER!!! Canderous Ordo, standing in for Han Solo: Insults? Maybe if your skills with a lightsaber were as good as your lip, those stormtroopers wouldn't have got you, you SPOILED LITTLE JEDI PRINCESS!!! Princess Leia: *ROASTED*. Please make this the next comment of the week, thank you.
@@neofulcrum5013 Wow, nice, and toasty, though I was just referencing two pieces of Star Wars Legends plotlines in one comment (The quote from KOTOR, and Leia becoming a Jedi Knight in Legends after Endor). However, to rebuff your comment, Canderous' homeworld got nuked pretty badly, BUT AT LEAST IT WASN'T RENDERED COMPLETELY NON-EXISTENT, AND TOTALLY UNLIVEABLE LIKE LEIA'S HOMEWORLD! I mean, why do surviving Mandalorians (Bo-Katan Kryze for example) still want to reclaim Mandalore as a homeworld from The Empire, if it was rendered completely unsustainable for life? Also, About winning wars, Leia's homeworld got conquered too by The Sith in The 3600s BBY, so Canderous, and Mandalore as a whole isn't alone in this case. Sure, you could say, The Jedi/Republic then liberated the planet later, to which I say, THEY STILL LOST THE WHOLE WAR AT THE SACKING OF CORUSCANT, ANYWAY! I'm pretty sure Alderaan was still affected when THAT happened. (Idk why I'm Caps Locking my responses like this, but I'm pretty sure it has to be EMPHASIZING MY POINT, RIGHT!?)
Geetsly has the best writing and VO.
Thank you so much 🤗
@@geetslys I know I watched this a few days ago but this is only 6 hrs old, am I crazy?
The Clone Wars TV should have had at least two more seasons to properly show a lot of these massive campaigns
Imagine a full season for one worlds battle, would have been amazing!
I agree
We don't see a much of the brutal campaigns
Maybe because it was meant for(kids)
But they could have released it apart from the main series
Oh 100% there was so much to cover over the clone wars
Battles like Umbara and Geonosis in the show were always the best because of how brutal they were.
One where the CIS actually wins.
The Core Campaigns: Clearly illustrating why Obi-Wan shot Grievous FIVE times.
"so uncivilized..."
"That was for the core worlds."
"It's only a warcrime if we lose." - Grievous, probably.
Based and CISpilled
"I don't care if its a warcrime i want that planet to be molten rock 2 days ago!" Almost certainly Grievous
Anakin and Obi Wan too.
I don’t think there’s a single war in Star Wars that doesn’t have a warcrime. It would be impossible to win otherwise.
Yep lol
Name one war on Earth that doesn’t have any warcrimes? The irony of war crimes is that they can only really be enforced in peacetime. When the bullets start flying and people start dying left and right, no one cares what rules some old men came up with in Geneva two hundred years ago.
@@taudvore259 I think if you can avoid killing and or torturing civilians, you should. That’s a pretty easy war crime to avoid.
It’d be impossible to FIGHT a total war, much less win one. Once war on that scale starts, it rapidly gets out of control and takes on a life (or, death) all its own. War crimes probably don’t seem criminal when the other side has killed your family, friends, and comrades. I’d like to think I’d conduct myself properly and honorably in a war, but I also see sane behavior spiraling out of restraint once the killing starts.
Guess I just don’t know. My only experience with war has been history books, the news, and scifi.
Foerost is such a popular destination: Naga Sadow invaded there in the Great Hyperspace War, (Ulic Qel Droma went there as Exar Kun's apprentice?), Darth Revan went there to replace/supplement the fleet made by the Star Forge, and so on. How did the Republic let such an important world fall under techno union control?
When I hear about Separatist war crimes, I always wonder how brutal the GAR and Republic Navy would have been without the Jedi leadership. If I did a scale on the four major factions by how many war crimes they did from least to most, I start with the Rebels, the Republic, the Separatists, and then the Empire, even if Grievous is worse than guys like Tarkin. I thus wonder how many Imperials studied Separatist commanders like Grievous and adopted their methods. The Jedi aren’t the best of leaders in war and it can be argued they never should have joined it, though without them the clone troopers likely would have way too much innocent blood on their hands. It could honestly be called one of the only good things about Jedi service in the war, humanizing the clone troopers, even if the inhibitor chips and the Empire made these efforts a waste. I’ll say the Separatists are worse than Rebels and the Republic, but the Empire always takes the top spot in government dirtbags, though the First Order might have surpassed them in that regard.
Yep, have you seen the "Second Clone Wars" video?
While more than a few Jedi were corrupted in their exposure to war, the majority of them were able to remain relatively good people and were able to minimize war crimes committed.
@@sambridgers9543 Exactly. Despite all their faults, the Jedi and many Clones did a lot of good during the Clone Wars, even if like Tristan said that once the Empire rose all or at least most of that good was wasted and undone.
The rebels they definitely have more then then the Republic. You're aware of how many crimes they committed on the daily just to survive against the empire right? Not counting the amount ot took to finally won?
Technically the rebbles are considered terrorists or in some cases "freedom fighters" not an army. In which case: "As a consequence of disagreement on terrorism in armed conflict, states have so far been unable to lay down a general definition of the whole phenomenon of terrorism in a general treaty."-I forgot my source, but it is legit. There is a law about terrorism in times of peace. Not good for the Star Wars universe as it is constantly at war. My country has known peace for about 12 years of it's history to date. I love America, but lets stop it and have cake!
Am I the only one who salutes when he says “Attention sergeant on deck!” ?
I stand to attention and look around for an NCO or an Officer. It's my programming. However I like to blow thing up because I LIKE TO BLOW THINGS UP!!!!
Sargent isn’t an officer there for you don’t salute 😂
As you should commander. As you should.
General grievous: "I'm no errand boy, and i'm not in this war for dooku's politics i am the leader of the most powerful droid army the galaxy has ever seen."
He was a errand boy and died a errand boy by the high ground lol
@@davidordaz5251 obi-wan didn't have the high ground in that scene.
@@CloneScavengerVulpin8389 obi wan is the high ground doesn’t matter lol
@@davidordaz5251 fair enough
That was his greatest speech
It's a shame they never touched on any of these in the Clone Wars series to actually show the CIS were a threat and not just a collection of bumbled droids.
they werent interested in the clone wars . Background noise for story telling maybe but the progression of the war isnt really explained not to mention that the shows best episodes have almost no clone wars in it
The Core territory of any enemy nation will always fight to the bitter end, and this is no exception. Once the enemy comes close to the capital of any nation morale will shrink and break, and no amount of frantic loyalty and bravery will not change the fact that fighting will be the most bloodiest.
The government will, but not the people, exception: Loyalists. Perfect example: WWII. Germany was still "fighting" when the Soviets finally stepped in. Although only the loyalists and youth brigades were still operating under Hitler's orders. The army of the Vermacht, or defense power of the third Riech consisted of: the Hier- army(not all were loyal OR agreed with Hitler), Luftwaffa- Air Command, Crietzmera- Navy. (please excuse my spelling). Not everyone in the Vermacht were supportive of the Riech.
@@xTK421x yet they did fight on until the very end.
@@xTK421x *Wehrmacht
@@XaldirGodofGood tyvm
@@Normalguy1690Die a Warrior's death, or be massacred by the Morgenthau plan. Man, I don't know what too choose...
2:54 - Holy crap, that's a FANTASTIC painting.
I imagine the Core Campaigns would have been very important to Palpatine. He needed to people of the core to feel a massive, overwhelming threat to their very survival... and then see he, Palpatine, gloriously push back the menace before rebuilding those worlds.
They'd probably have been the first worlds in the empire to DEMAND stormtrooper garrisons on their world.
Upon hearing of Sev'rance Tann, I always like the idea that she survived and continued on to serve her role as the Supreme Commander of the Separatist Droids Army. Who knows, Malastare might actually joined the Separatists and the whole Mid Rim might actually ended up joining the Separatists Alliance when the negotiation with Kashyyyk goes well. Plus with the Battle of Umbara and the campaigns of terror against the Core Worlds, the Republic will be forced to surrender.
P.S: Since it's a win-win situation for Palpatine, he can have the Separatists won the war like how the Sith of the past attempted to conquer the galaxy as well instead of doing what he did in the canon. That's why while it's a no-win situation for the Jedi, it's a win-win situation for Sidious.
While I do understand not wanting to adopt all of this into the Clone Wars TV series since, despite how much darker the show got as it progressed, starting with season 3 and onward, kind of symbolic of how the Clone Wars themselves got darker the longer they progressed thus the show did too, they still didn't want to go to dark with how many civilians they killed on screen, especially since the Republic did technically win the war so it makes more sense to show more victories then loses to reinforce that point, they still could have done a few of these things.
No the clone wars got a very bit annoying with the separatists being the typical cartoon villain that never wins. The show could have shown way more losses, and I thought the republic was struggling near the end of the war? At least the opening crawl in rots says so
@@bikesrcool_1958 I wasn't saying they shouldn't have shown more losses, I was saying why it made sense to show more Republic wins. In fact, like I said in my comment I felt they could have shown some of these losses and battles in some way to show the CIS as a decent threat, but that things still looked hopeful that the Republic could win because their victories outnumbered their losses.
Also, yeah the opening crawl in ROTS is kind of miss leading, as the Republic was winning the war at this point, since this was near the end of the Outer Rim Sieges, in which the Republic reclaimed a lot of territory during the 6-month campaign.
@@zexalbrony4799 well the opening crawl came before, so maybe they just didn’t take it into account when making the show? Idk many sources tell me they were struggling or winning during the movie.
@@bikesrcool_1958 Yeah, the lore of the Clone Wars is very inconsistent at times, and I'm not just talking about Canon vs Legends, I'm talking in general, like the debate of whether Obi-Wan and Anakin where on Nelvan or Tythe before the battle of Courascant in Legends, and the whole debate over who was winning the war at what point or if it was a stalemet up until the end.
@@zexalbrony4799 I’ve learned to make up my own head canon, or mix together legends and canon to make sense of things. I think it makes a cool experience. But yes I agree with you
I honestly appreciate this channel a lot. I’ve been told all my life the prequels are garbage and George Lucas is a terrible director by the generation that grew up on the original trilogy and hated the prequels because it wasn’t just the OT done again.
I feel validation that my generation that grew up on the prequel movies, then the original clone wars series and 2008 reboot clone wars series is now praising George Lucas, the prequels and Dave Filoni for how great and interesting the prequel era actually is. Growing up I felt like I was crazy for thinking Revenge of the Sith was the best Star Wars movie.
It makes me now give pause to shitting on the sequel series and people that like it because I feel like I’m just repeating the cycle of hating the next trilogy because it wasn’t like the one I loved. If people and the younger generation find value in the sequels who am I to poo poo them?
At least the original trilogy and prequels had a plan and direction the sequels were just a mess and had no vision and nothing really connected but that’s just my opinion
I wasn't a kid back when the prequels were released, but I must admit, at least I never got into that bandwagon due to not being very familiar of that back in the day.
We'll see how history treats them then.
I have heard that two , im older i remember longing for the prequels and i was expecting a lot of what we got . I grew up in the 80s so it was ot and books for me . But i remember around the time ( hier to the empire) thrawn trilogy came out , there was a star wars encyclopedia ( approved by Lucas) in it it had some details the we saw in prequels and clone wars . With some cosmetic differences. Like palpatine was named, but he was president instead of chancellor. Or the duel between anakin and obi wan in episode 3 is first mentioned in a new hope novel ( star wars novilisation) mustafar isn't named but described. ( vader is remembering it ) but the prequels were wonderful. And i remember the reviews at the time .( they all got 4 or 5 stars in empire film magazine) very good or excellent. It really was a load minority. I spent a long time in line for the first screening of each with fans ( they were all happy) i remember episode two a friend wanted to go again immediately. I declined and offered to go again in a couple of days .
I know many ot fans who wont even watch clone wars or read a book . Its foolish imo .
I don't have that much love for the Sequels, but the Prequel hate bandwagon from 2014 to 2017 (that's when it was at its zenith) almost brought me to the point where I had enough arguing about Star Wars. 2018-2019 cemented it, though, so I won't continue the cycle.
I wouldn't have had much of a problem with the Sequels if they didn't play out like someone's bad/unimaginative fanfiction, and weren't blatently trying to suck up via nostalgia for the OT.
Grievous truly is one of the most evil characters in all of Star Wars, and he’s not even a Sith.
Yep, he really is an evil character
@@geetslys although I can understand why he is, and I sort of feel bad for him.
Grievous's brain was heavily tampered with by cybernetics when they turned him into a cyborg. His free will was compromised and we don't know exactly what he'd do without those modifications so I don't know if we can objectively blame him for this war crimes commited during the Clone War and call him 'most evil' based on that.
@@TheGeneralGrievous19He was brutal before his transformation. The campaigns would've been similar just with less attrocities
Really odd having a fleet of only one kind of warship, no matter its quality and make.
Even more so if said fleet fought against another fleet with the same incomprehensible idea.
If I had a nickel for every fleet made of a single type of starship, I'd have two nickels... Which isn't a lot but it's weird it happened twice
@@stormreach1234 three, the katana fleet is made up of 200 Dreadnaught class cruisers and nothing else.
They didn't though. They had destroyers, frigates, troop transports, command ships, not to mention various star fighters.
Your honor we would like to attribute all war crimes committed by our forces to coding errors in the droids programming
I love this beat!💪🏿💯 along with my man breaking his content down nice, great job 💯
I was just watching one of your videos from “the front” and I have to say keep up the good work
Thank you so much!!!
General Grievous is my favorite character! This is Canon for me!
Great video!!! To easily are the atrocities of the clone wars forgotten
Despite the unforgivable crimes against peace that grievous committed I still feel sorry for the guy considering he was tricked into being evil
Just the kind of content I need man
I wish we saw more of this campaign
How do clones feel about fighting organic combatants? Total glee or apprehension?
11:06: Awesome name, that.
Sorry, ran out of wine, and even then, I don't drink liquor.
3:00-3:13: ...Justifications for invasions in a nutshell, I guess.
You should do this for Legends Post Return of the Jedi events
Fun fact: The entirety of Staw Wars canon, and beyond happend a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. Which I think means that the Geneva Conventions that "some" countries recognize in the 20th and 21st centuries on Earth wouldn't apply.
is there any information out there about how many that was living on humbarine before the planet was slaged in 20BBY by general grevious?
So Duro was considered the Reach of Star Wars?
If so, does that mean it had its own Noble Team and Pillar of Autumn?
Okay, the Separatists did have legitimate concerns sit by the Galactic Republic which only after the Battle of Naboo started to try and regain some law and order over the chaotic Outer Rim filled with crime gangs and corrupt corporations that they practically ignored for centuries. I’ll grant fans of the Separatists this. However you can’t declare the true members of the movement to be so innocent of everything the Separatists did. Plenty of them had no problem with the corporations making and running the military despite the fact they actually did most of the horrible things in the Outer Rim while the Senate at most just looked the other way until the Battle of Naboo. Like the Republic senate they also surrendered power to Dooku, practically making him a dictator by the end of the war. And while they keep claiming they have moral superiority because they’re soldiers are mostly droids instead of clone troopers indoctrinated into the Republic military and practically being slaves, droids have shown themselves to be sentient and feel emotions like humans. It could be argued that droids are also forced by their creators to become soldiers. Any defective droids are likely deactivated and reprogrammed if not destroyed. And if battle droids aren’t actually sentient, this introduces a problem that science fiction always covers. If a machine without any sentience is deployed into a battlefield, what happens if it’s given controversial orders? A machine can kill as many civilians if not more than a regular soldier just because it was programed too. And then let’s get on with the political system. The Separatists wanted a decentralized government while allowing corporations to create and run the military. It is practically a recipe for civil conflict. If the corporations don’t make a power move or at least use their troops to influence planets just like before the war, planets with differing ideals will turn on each other. Remember, the one thing uniting the Separatists was the Galactic Republic as an enemy. Umbara may have left the Republic because it’s Senator was murdered, but planets in the CIS are going to have opinions across the spectrum when the planet goes back to creating weapons of war to be sold across the CIS. They were warmongers and did have a caste system. I doubt a lot of Separatists had high opinions about the Geonosians and worlds like Onderon and Mon Cala had their own issues with the CIS. Separatist sentiment is understandable, but even if the CIS got rid of Dooku, Grievous, and Palpatine, it is unlikely things would work out. Separatist worlds would have to fight the light of the droid army of corporations didn’t like them, the difference in ideals would be recognized as being extremely vast for the Separatists, and thus I feel it is likely that the Separatists would become as corrupt as the Republic if not fractured by civil war. It just wasn’t sustainable in my eyes. Heck, maybe someone should make a view analyzing how life would be like in the CIS. Separatism does have its perks on the surface, but you could say the CIS did it completely wrong.
I've argued similar points. Many claim of Palpatine wasn't in charge the Republic would have been just overwhelmed and lost easily but Palpatine controlled BOTH sides. The CISs largest attacks on the core worlds (durges Lance & the Battle of Corusant) the CIS only got in those positions with Palatine providing special assistance like secret hyper space lanes. While some of the Republics largest victories actually came about despite Palpatine helping the CIS. Examples like the destruction of the Malevolence and gaining an alliance with the Hutts. (There are other battles/events as well) the Jedi and clones were underestimated by Palpatine many times during the war winning battles they weren't supposed to. Some may argue that without Palpatine that a clone army would have never been made. But that's not true a Jedi was the one who originally ordered the clone army but he was killed on his way to negotiate the deal and choose a donor after he was killed Dooku stepped in and chose Jango (due to being famous for killing many Jedi) then arranged the army to have biochips installed for obedience. If Palpatine wasn't in charge the clone army would have still existed it just may not have been the Jango clones that we know and love. And the clone army would have just been used for the first few years of the war as without the sith they would likely have ordered a draft in place to build the army larger in a short period of time for a lower cost. On the flip side if the sith didn't control the CIS who knows if the corporations would have sided and funded the entirety of the CIS military.
@@mouse3872 I do wonder if Sifo-Dyas would have actually allowed the clone army to be handed over to the Galactic Republic. He was loyal sure, but there are ten years in between the creation of the clones and the war. Anything could happen to change his mind. What if Dyas decided instead that the army was specifically for the Jedi Order. Though technically there really wouldn't have been a clone army without Palpatine. Dyas foresaw in the Force of a dark evil and while I argue against others that Dooku was indeed evil, its safer to assume the evil Dyas saw was Palpatine. Of course Dyas then mistook his vision and made the army with Palpatine secretly took over with the inhibitor chips after ordering Dooku to murder him. Speaking of which, I know Dooku wanted to be discreet but the fact he didn't decide to take on his friend one-on-one is a little cold. This guy was his best friend and yet he doesn't even do the dirty deed by his own hands? Granted, the same thing happened with Assaj Ventress. Maybe Dooku is more politician than I give him credit for. Anyways if Dyas never had the vision he never would have wanted to make the clone army. While anti-Republic sentiments were on the rise, Dooku only weaponized them after becoming Palpatine's apprentice. He never pulled Serenno out of the Republic before the war even if he kept the planet distant from Core World politics and corruption. There is a good chance the war may not have happened without Palpatine, though I think instead of a war there would have been a violent revolution to overthrow the government like we've seen on Earth.
Mate the entirety of Star Wars battles could be best described as "War Crimes and You! How to understand and execute your own war crime!" And it would have a special interlude by Anakin.
None months late, but whatever, it just appeared on my feed.
"The Seperatists ravaged the rim-"
Me a degenerate: ... :)
Getting into some heavy concepts like manufactured consent. Wow
I really wish the clone wars went above and beyond to to pick this but fortunately the original 2003 claim was depicted the scale of a hint of operation Durge’s Lance
I have heard of operation Durges lance you mentioned it in previous videos
Everyone mocking CIS supporters need to go watch Geetsly's other vids on the Separatists.
Ultimately every side in a war commits warcrimes. Having a leader with nefarious ulterior motives, having commanders or bad actors who commit war crimes, etc... does not immediately mean that side is in the wrong. Ultimately the sides of the Clone Wars can line up by 2 things: do you judge a movement/faction by their worst crimes regardless of their end goals? And, do you prefer enforced order at the end of a gun, or self-determination taken violently? Ultimately everyone's stance on the Republic or Separatists will be determined by those questions. If it's just a matter of balancing 'who got the most number of villain points', then it's still close, but clearly you'd say the Separatists were bad and Republic good. If you prefer order and a 'unified nation', especially if you like the idea of 'Murica 'democracy' at gunpoint, Republic looks pretty great... you can always vote-out Sidious, right? But me, personally... there are two levels of good and bad in any conflict: the individual and the global. A nation can be entirely in the right and justified in their goals and reasons for waging war, while the multiple people who make up that nation may commit good or evil acts (Vietnam?). Likewise a nation can be led to an evil goal, while still having heroic individuals and commanders in its ranks (Iraq war? etc). If you can look at the Clone Wars from that mindset, the CIS are obviously the good guys, who happen to have corrupt military leadership and bad actors that need to be purged, while the Republic is entirely in the wrong, despite having (misguided) heroic characters working for them and doing good actions now and then.
There's a diference between overlooking, and never having heard of it.
Why does grevious sound like Star Wars Putin 😂
because you have been watching the reports from Ukraine. Grevious is more like Osama. Singled out as being different and made to seek out acceptance outside his fmily.
"How Grevious Order 66'd the humans"
General Grievous' war crimes make torture as a punishment start to sound like a good idea. How else would you punish planetary scale mass murder?
Solid
Then, all hell broke loose..........damn
If the sepratists had managed to breach the defenses of the core they could have done immense damage to the republic war effort which would have been countered only by massive campaigns on par with the outer rim sieges in order for them to turn back the tide. The citizens of the republic must have been very thankful for the GMR for stopping grevious onslaught
Legends General Grievous is the GOAT
Glam title made just for him. Still keeping all eyes away from the Sith.
If General Grievious had a Death Star he would have blown up any Core world planet he took.
Would you be willing to do a video explaining why the battle of Malacor-5created a wound in the force but other tragedies, like the destruction of Alderaan or the Blue Shadow Virus Plague didn’t? I find that there are much more catastrophic disasters than Malacor-5 but they never create a force wound.
blue shadow virus did nothing . other CIS bioweapons did like the one of a gungan moon that wiped out the gungans there
Generation tech is ten times this channel
Star Wars fans overlook the Senate’s might.
why isn't it called grevious's lance, that's like having a campaigned called cad bane's crusade name the whole massive military campaign and name it after some bounty hunter you hired for a bit
not even in the loyalists worse nightmares did anything come close to this attack
Unfortunately general grievous, plot armor was the only thing that held the movement back. Shame. Would like to see the separatists as the head government.
Like we Separatists say, they had a great and wholly justified cause, and Grievous himself has more than enough of a cassus beli to fight against the Jedi and Republic on a generalized level, its just that between Grievous being consumed by his rage and the sith interference (I choose to think Dooku and Grievous would both happen even if Palpatine didnt exist or manipulate things as much, just in different ways is all), and the plot armor of the heroes? Yeah, there was no hope the Separatists would win.
@@ramenbomberdeluxe4958 empire at war fall of the republic is the only way to see the clone wars without the BS plot armor.
The goal of the separatist was to break away from the republic and force them to recognize the CIS as a legitimate government not to conquer it.
@@mill2712 Mhm, and unlike the confederacy of US history, this one had an actual just cause behind it, now if only the civil war confederacy of the real world didn't botch the terminology and make you risk sounding like a neo confederate out of context when praising the CIS lmao.
You mean Palpatine's machinations and the will of the conniving Force?
Would’ve been great to see this war playout without any Sidious or sith manipulations (outside the clone troopers being made to order lol)
Does anyone want more clone wars like I don’t think anyone would complain dropping 3 arcs a year and it could never end because the clone wars can do a story on anyone
Still waiting for the War Crimes of the Republic
shame we never got a battle of kuat
Because the CIS stans keep attacking Anakin and Obi-Wan for false surrender, while ignoring that Grievous and the other Separatist commanders did much worse. Hypocrisy is one of the strongest violations on any internet community.
So true.
You're gonna make me roll my eyes. It's possible to disapprove of both, you know? This kind of binary thought helped Darth Sidious take power.
@@TheSuperRatt That sounds like an absolute
@@TheSuperRatt You don't know how many excuses I've seen made in favor of CIS commanders. And I'm not just talking about the CIS stans. I bet you that the Empire fanboys discrediting the Jedi as kidnappers will be trying to make an excuse for the Inquisitors.
@@sambridgers9543 honestly, if I see one more person call the Jedi kidnappers knowing good and well that's not true. If you don't know by now that Jedi had express permission to take younglings, it was seen as a great honor, almost all inductees had fulfilling meaningful lives in the order, and that they were free to leave at any time, you're just ignoring the lore because you hate Jedi
Whats the source of this? Canon books and comics?
I think if we didn't have "branding" and ratings to worry about, there'd be a SW CW show that's bloody AF
It seems likely that if not for palpatine sabotaging their war effort the separatists would have won
And should have won. They were right in their reasons for leaving.
yeah
It’d be great if we could fight future wars this way. Not with spaceships, clones, and droids; just imagine if we fought wars with storytelling, instead.
Is Foerost really "foh-roast" or "feh-roast/feh-rost", though? Can anyone specify?
Smegma cupcakes
“War is Hell.”
or The impossibility of reality.
I would like to do this to the US
A movie about Operation Durge’s Lance? Anyone?
Did they say admiral Dua Lingo?
Ahh yes, unimaginable viloance in star WAR'S. Who'd a thunk it. Lol jk jk. There's only so much content keep up the terrific info. Guess which bridge I live under? 🤪
the Troll Bridge? do you pay a toll to live under that Troll bridge?
@@xTK421x The tolls are Trolls yet Trolls pay no tolls. Just bwing sheep.
How did the rest of the Confederacy feel about these?
It's easy to overlook Separatist war crimes, when canon celebrates equivalent Republic War Crimes, especially when done by the Jedi, especially when done by Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi.
eaw screen shot oh yea
The 2D Clone Wars series General Grievous, in his absolute peak form, would basically be a walking war crime and considering how he 'debuted' on Hypori, there would be many a battle that would have been absolutely horrifying for the Galactic Republic. Hypori was atypical of later battles in the Clone Wars where so many Clones and Jedi would be seen in one place at one time. The Clone Wars were young. The Acclamator was still the fighting backbone of the Republic Navy.
The Phase I Clone Troopers were bravely if not always astutely led into massive clashes using vast numbers of ships and vehicles. I know that none of that series is canon anymore, but were it still so, the continuity of _that_ version of the characters, would make for a rather sobering situation on many Republic worlds. Only the very best of the Jedi Masters were able to stop _that_ Grievous.
While I'm no Grievous mega fan or anything, I like his character within reason though happen to greatly prefer Count Dooku. Grievous in the 2D series would be the kind of character that could just pounce on a string of Republic stronghold worlds and _expect_ to get the better of the encounter. In the 3D version, not so much (he is outsmarted by Jar Jar Binks, and consequently captured -- albeit at some cost (Tarpals) -- by the Gungans. He got magna-nerfed in the 3D series.
Ultimately, there had been a semblance of some continuity between 2003/2004 (2D Clone Wars) Grievous and the version of him (immensely nerfed by George Lucas, entirely deliberately, as he had not liked the 2D series much for dubious reasons in my opinion) There _had_ been a sense that, yes, while cowardly and relatively easily dealt with in 2005's Episode III, that he was at least in that 'state' because of his encounter with Mace Windu.
For a few years at least (before later 3D productions came into being), that was okay in the 'wild west' days of G-canon (George Lucas canon) before the more rigid (many might say, draconian) Disney Canon (or D-canon, if you will, as unintentionally phallic as that sounds now I read it back) Lucas didn't like the 2D series but openly took things from it, like Grievous.
Grievous was made for that series by his artists and approved by Lucas. As were the Magna Guards etc. There was some uncertainty on what role a lot of the characters really ought to have. Asajj Ventress was by and large 'recycled' from older concepts for a 'Sith Lady' for The Phantom Menace/Episode I, and generally a 'variation on the theme' for _another_ character eventually discarded; Komari Vosa. Dooku's original 'dual lightsaber wielding female apprentice'. In the 2002, Episode II tie-in game, 'Bounty Hunter', Jango Fett is hired by Count Dooku to take Komari Vosa down.
While fully-capable of strolling onto the spoopy moon of Bogden, Kohlma -- full of the rampaging 'Bando Gora' death cult aka annoying, personal space adverse methhead creatures -- by himself, and killing her easily. Dooku was just paying for Jango to do it, to test his mettle and see if he was good enough to become the template for the Clone Army. He (just about, while nearly being killed a few times) managed it. Komari was considered 'unstable' by Dooku, though in reality, he'd been told to kill her by Palpatine.
Yet again, this concept was recycled with Dooku having to order the execution of Asajj Ventress, later. But for a time, the literal origins of the dual red-bladed lightersabers Ventress wielded, were Komari Vosa. When Dooku gives these to Ventress on Rattatak in 2003's Season 1 of the 2D animated Clone Wars series, those in the know would understand those had belonged to Komari Vosa originally.
Indeed, if you'd just played that game in 2002 (I didn't at the time, only playing it much later on PS4), I imagine you'd think, 'oh cool, those were Komari's from Bounty Hunter'. Not something I picked up on at the first time of seeing the 2D Clone Wars back in the day, when they first released, but something that -- at least for a time -- was understood to be the origins of Ventress's lightsabers. Before the dark times, before the Disney Empire...(2012 onward)
I explain that, because similarly, Grievous was altered quite a bit from his 2003 debut, by the time of Episode III in 2005. Lucas had an axe to grind with the whole show and while happy to take from it what he wished to keep like a material pool, the reality was, even before Disney bought the franchise from Lucas, the 2D series was on pretty thin ice canonically. It wasn't upheld in the highest regard canonically, even back then (ironically, in spite of massive fan support to make it fully canon as it was on release in 2003 and 2004)
Ideas of the 'Sith Lady' being the main Sith for Episode II, returned after Darth Maul won the preference of Lucas in the design phases in pre-production, and yet once again, Lucas shelved that idea and wanted Sir Christopher Lee in his prequel trilogy. Dooku's character materialised fairly rapidly between 2001 and 2002, and it seems to me at least that Lucas was 'aware' of Lee's performance (so popular) of Saruman in 2001's The Fellowship Of The Ring (Peter Jackson, New Line Cinemas)
This is speculative, and ideas regarding Dooku or something approximating him might have been around a bit longer into 2000. However, whatever the case, Lucas wanted the elder statesmen over the Sith Lady concept, and so her concept art (now in a more advanced form) was parlayed into the newer character of Asajj Ventress for the Clone Wars cartoon. In my view, to the best of my knowledge so far, I think that Dooku's character was created relatively rapidly and Lucas wasn't remotely hiding the thing he was invoking the most regarding 'Count Dooku' as a character name, in relation to the actor portraying him; Lee was already immensely famous for Hammer Horror films, notably playing Dracula (Count Dracula) numerous times.
Count Dooku....Count Dracula. It's not exactly rocket science.
Therefore Dooku becomes the believable face of a Separatist movement, whereas Ventress (the many times revised outcome of earlier characters like Komari Vosa and earlier art designs going back as far as 1998/1999. A credible, elder statesman, and powerful presence on-screen. Yet of course, the somewhat glib nature of his naming didn't matter in the long-run. Dooku is still a great character. But I'm quite sure that Sir Christopher Lee was very well-aware what Lucas was getting at (even before he once put vampire teeth on a Yoda model to tease Lee on set during the filming of AOTC) I mean, if nothing else, the _cape_ is a dead give away...
Anyhow, Grievous is a funny one, because Lucas clearly wanted Dooku to have generals and while Ventress was one of them, he wanted something else that reflected the Droid Army more directly. Whereas Ventress was a reflection of the Sith, Grievous was a reflection of the Separatists, and more specifically, their Droids. This is somewhat unfortunately ironic, considering how Grievous is later portrayed to casually resent the dumb droids under his command, while still essentially being representative of their aesthetic far more than Ventress ever was.
And yes, there is a glaringly obvious, 'higher abstraction' in what Grievous is meant to evoke and represent; he is very clearly, 'proto-Vader', at least with regards to his life support systems and 'more machine now than humanoid' visage. Just as Dooku reflects a proto-Vader in terms of the fallen Jedi (like a fallen Angel, or disgraced Knight of real-world yore), the political firebrand turned monster through misguided idealism, twisted by Sith ideology (by the same Dark Lord of the Sith, Sidious), Grievous is the _machine_ aspect of what Vader became.
A foreshadowing of the deliberate body horror of a once proud organic lifeform, a sentient being, reduced to machinery parts and life-support systems. A twisted form of life, an abomination. An insult to the Force (which when one thinks about it, makes the 'Mods' in Book of Boba Fett seem even more bothersome and illogical in-universe than they already are, but I digress)
Star Wars _always_ leaned into the idea of the implicit body horror of being, 'more machine now than man', and there was a much more tangible concern over this back in the 1970's as far as I've been able to glean.
To modern audiences, we take this sort of thing for granted now, but in the 1970's the idea of such mergers of the living flesh and metallic machinery was far more viscerally disturbing then than we might now realise. There was a growing concern of the rise of technology, with many reactionary takes and dystopian sci-fis in the 1950's through to the 1970's.
Indeed, most sci-fi and space fantasy in the early 1970's, had stagnated into either being overtly depressing dystopian worlds, suspicious of machinery and heavily emphasising technological devastation (often in an industrial manner), _or_ being something more puerile, tacky and sparkly. The panic of worlds ruined by industry, the fear of atomic weaponry, the bleak albeit depressingly reasonable paranoia over Armageddon; contrasted with more psychedelic and sometimes downright cheesy, silvery spandex and glittery wig images of some dystopian future. Either it was too bleak, or it was too clean. Too sterile and obnoxious. Too laughable.
Then Star Wars came along and changed _everything_ but that is a whole other story. Lived in worlds; grimy and 'taken for granted in-universe' so to speak. 'Grungy' and _old_ feeling. Something about a galaxy that had been using such technology for so long, it had fully-taken it for granted by the time we get to see it, and something about a galaxy that felt familiarly ancient and recognisable in the myths and legends of real-world yesteryear. A nostalgia for something that never was, because of a connection and evocative link to something that really was, once upon a time.
[1/3]
[2/3] On paper it seemed mad, just another dumb run of the mill sci-fi. A space smuggler with a dog for a co-pilot and a space princess begging for help from an old space wizard. An evil Empire fighting a rebel force in space, a totalitarian regime. In many ways it ran close to the bone in how it seemed to be portraying dystopia, like so many others lazily did; but Star Wars was different. It was lightning in a bottle, and surprised almost everyone in 1977.
Even while being filmed, 'STAR WARS' (1977), (later Episode IV A New Hope, by 1980) essentially seemed like a disaster to some people working on it. Sir Alec Guinness, portraying Obi-Wan Kenobi/Old Ben Kenobi, himself was greatly concerned his career had hit rock-bottom to be on such a production. He was a classically trained, thespian actor, and not for nought was he worried about being on a sci-fi film.
Not only had there long been derision for the genre, often unfairly but it existed nonetheless (something that must be factored in, looking at the times in which Star Wars first released), but the entire genre had been nose-diving in terms of public popularity. Many stories were too silly, too bleak, too bland or too boring. Constant rehashes of this or that mad cheese-fest written on one drug or another (have you seen Zardoz? lol)
To all the world, Lucas's movie was a mad gamble for the American film studios, and they thought so too; in 1976, they withdrew funding and studio access to Lucas, right in the middle of filming. Desperate to find somewhere to finish his film, he turned to British film studios like Elmstree and Pinewood, and they accepted him in with open arms (albeit themselves, also growing concerned with his seemingly pathetic production)
Everyone involved in the filming and half the actors (including Harrison Ford) were worried it'd be a complete turkey. Thankfully, the Original Trilogy would blossom beyond the wildest dreams of the cast and crew, and a galaxy of stars were born. Sir Alec Guinness was rewarded beyond his wildest expectations for the film, which ironically (perhaps at least partly to his own chagrin, in spite of the money he was getting post-1977, levels of money he'd never had before in his already long acting career on film and television; he'd have still been famous and well-remembered, even without Star Wars, but that boosted his profile recognition to a new generation for sure, even more than, 'The Bridge On the River Kwai' did two decades earlier in 1957) made him a _lot_ of money.
Shrewdly, he'd demanded a 1% royalties cut from anything made regarding Star Wars, before accepting the role. It seemed like a small demand to him at the time in 1976, because the film seemed to be a flop in the making that he regretted being a part of initially. But oh boy did that royalties cut (on top of his fee) pay off big. Bigger than he could have dreamed. Until 2000, when cancer sadly took his life, Sir Alec Guinness had been enjoying Star Wars royalties since 1977.
Although Star Wars tailed off in popularity for a decade following Return Of The Jedi in 1983, this still meant a huge amount of money winged it's way to Sir Alec Guinness regardless, for almost a quarter of a century. Talk about a return on investment. He had been worried it would be 'the film to end his career'. For many -- especially those not from his generation but later -- it came to _define it_ from their points of view.
He would probably have un-ironically disliked that fact, but a fact it was; many folks only know about him _because_ of Star Wars, whether he liked that or not. This was reflected later to a lesser extent with how Sir Christopher Lee was brought to a whole new generation of fans, thanks to the combined powerhouses of the Star Wars prequels and perhaps even more so, The Lord Of The Rings (Peter Jackson) trilogy, running partly concurrently in the early 2000's mostly.
The Machine I refer to, is how many would have seen the likes of Vader. Much as the Daleks and perhaps even more the Cybermen, in Doctor Who, were feared for their monstrous disregard for organic life and their brutalism. Vader echoes such sentiments of earlier sci-fi like that, which almost instinctively held such objects and concepts in suspicion. Grievous, is a clever way of making a prototype for Vader in the prequels and Clone Wars era, albeit perhaps showing this dynamic in juxtaposition with the naturalistic Jedi.
Grievous hates the Jedi, not just because of some dark backstory and...well, grievance....but because he symbolically represents everything that is anathema to the Jedi, just as much as the Sith are in a more magical and alchemical way. Grievous is the Machine. Grievous is the degradation of life. Grievous is the abomination against nature. A tragedy yes, but one so far gone that he cannot possibly be saved. He has become Death, a monster used like a deliberate attack dog by the Sith.
[3/3] Grievous's campaigns in the Core Worlds and beyond to the Mid and Outer Rim, are less coherent in the 3D series, in spite of it having much more time. Grievous would and could be easily written in a far darker and unsettling manner, if given half the chance to be. Unfortunately, by the time we see him in the 3D animated series, he has more or less been reduced to a repetitively incompetent coward with a longstanding coughing problem. The nerds in power like Filoni explained it away, with apologist writing, but it didn't need to be that way. It was just them keeping Grievous how Lucas wanted him (nerfed) as per his ROTS depiction. In my opinion, that was just plain wrong.
Grievous _how he should have been_ that is to say, how he was in the 2D series, would make for something far, far more terrifying than what we got in Episode III. I get the logic that he was a washed up has been compared to earlier iterations of himself, but the 3D Clone Wars made him seem ridiculous sometimes. Yes, he still had some good feats, but he got humiliated a lot and even verged on comic relief at times.
Grievous in the 2D version was a nightmare. It seems Lucas mainly disliked his ability in that to make light of fully-trained Jedi Knights and even Jedi Masters, as if they were not particularly challenging. I get that, but I still think something like Grievous would arise from time to time in the SW galaxy, and cause problems for the Jedi, for all their power and skill.
Grievous should really have been kept the way he was, butchering his way through entire platoons of Clone Troopers and being a living nightmare beast for a lot of Jedi. But he was reduced to a bit of a disappointment in ROTS and then outright humiliated in The Clone Wars. He has his moments, but too often he gets dabbed on by other characters way too easily.
If I were to write ideas for battles (new or known) regarding the Clone Wars, Grievous would be a serious and credible danger. Wherever he went, the Clones would be having a very bad day. The Jedi, even, would be trying hard to contain his offensives but failing repeatedly. Besides the fact that I always thought the Clone Wars should have lasted 10 years, not 3, the ideas are still plentiful.
In the 10 year long Clone Wars concept (which I think is more realistic on several levels), Grievous would have a lot of time to grow into his element and become an increasing threat to more and more Jedi. He'd start 'small' killing average Jedi Knights and padawans on random, far flung battlefields, but then advance to taking on notable Jedi Knights and Masters. Eventually he'd cross blades with the Jedi of the High Council, and start killing some of them in various campaigns, forcing them to be replaced before their time.
I'd write many last stands of Republic forces on numerous worlds, and write different concepts for known battles. Grievous would become a horrifying spectre far more than he already was considered. He'd not make clownish mistakes, he'd be a genius at all times and only truly driven back by those few Jedi capable of containing his onslaught in a head on fight. Dooku's training would be intense. He'd demand a lot from Grievous, and usually Grievous would go above and beyond, in my version, fanatically loyal to Dooku and convinced by his politics (not scorning and disregarding 'Dooku's politics' as he scoffed at Kenobi in TCW that time; "I'm not in this war for Dooku's politics!")
Well, in my version, he would partly be in the war because of being so strongly supportive of Dooku's anti-Republic rhetoric and oratory. Dooku would be much more of an inspiration to Grievous, than simply a pragmatic overlord whom he 'tolerated' because he had to. Dooku was the kind of powerhouse that could quite casually destroy Grievous in a fight. Hence why his training should make him far more dangerous to a wide range of Jedi, regardless of the fact Grievous doesn't use the Force. His augmentations made up for a lot of that.
Not all, no, but he'd be this anomaly to the bulk of Jedi. Too fast to match blade to blade, too frenzied and relentless hold off, too merciless to take lightly and too horrifying to ignore. He would not be necessarily as 'skilled' as a swordsman, just so fast that the amount of hits he could land would deluge many Jedi, more suited to generalist training and blaster deflection. Grievous would be able to shock many Jedi who'd never met him before. His element of surprise would be vital to him.
I'd write Grievous to be a tactical and strategic genius, whom could take on most Jedi. His nemesis would still by Kenobi, yet he would be a credible savage with a set of lightsabers all the same.
Dooku would not expect him to ever defeat Mace Windu or Plo Koon, perhaps, though he'd certainly be wondering if Grievous could kill Kenobi or young Skywalker. Perhaps he'd meet his match with Cin Drallig or Luminara Unduli. Or maybe this time Shaak Ti would defeat him. He would never beat Yoda (even Dooku himself struggled with Yoda) But still, most Jedi would not get anywhere near Dooku, and the same argument could be made for Grievous. I think, very sincerely, that Lucas underestimated this with regards to the average Jedi in the Jedi Order at the time. Most of them ain't stopping Ventress or Grievous 1 vs 1. Not _that_ (2D version) General Grievous.
In the 10 year long Clone Wars concept scenario, I'd have Grievous debut at the same point in the timeline regarding the Battle of Hypori (it's non-canon now but I don't care, it's very interesting) But the war would last much longer. Seven years longer. This seems more realistic to me. The legends and horror stories relating to Grievous, would be far more serious for that scenario. He'd have killed hundreds of Jedi and been involved in a score of major victories against the Republic and Jedi. More than he already was. Random garrisons would go missing on numerous worlds, and evidence of wiped out units would be found in his wake.
Smaller Clone army groups fighting all over the galaxy, would be routinely annihilated out of the blue by the sudden arrival of Grievous and shock forces under his command. Entire fleets of Republic warships would vanish, entire bases would be destroyed and lost with all personnel days or even weeks before anyone realised. His war crimes would be as legion as his forces, and his forces would achieve massive strategic victories. Nevertheless, Palpatine would never let him get too successful for his purposes and plans. Ironically Grievous would merely be disposed of, much as in the final outcome, by Kenobi.
Even so, Grievous would instil fear in the hearts and minds of trillions; just as Palpatine would hope for. Dooku would always give Grievous rigorous training in sparring and be quick to fearlessly berate and belittle Grievous during those sparring matches, to goad him to think more decisively and keenly. Kenobi would finally slay Grievous on Utapau, but not with his own blaster, with his lightsaber (via decapitation and bisection both) Kenobi would cut his head off before cutting his cyborg body in half through the organ sacs, and then force push his remains into the sink hole, even as his eyes finally closed.
Instead of immediately abandoning his forces, Grievous would attempt to hold for a while, killing a _lot_ of Clones personally, but eventually he would be driven back by AT-TE fire and chased by Kenobi, after Kenobi had defeated all of his dozens of Magna Guards (I'd have a lot more there to basically try and overwhelm Kenobi, leaving Grievous able to command his forces) Kenobi would defeat them and then cut his way through Battle Droids to get to Grievous, at which point (also seeing his forces slowly being pushed back, Grievous would decide to retreat to a second line of defence inside Pau City.
He would not just B-line for _Soulless One_ (his ship) but he'd turn and fight repeatedly, showing wild desperation and frustration with his Separatist cause seeming to be burning to the ground around him. Clone losses would be appalling, but their sheer numbers and skill would doom the garrison. Nevertheless, Grievous would nearly kill Kenobi twice in their duel, although ultimately being defeated by the Jedi Master. Simply outfought, outclassed and outplayed, and then finally slain.
Grievous's remains would sink to the bottom of the water of the sinkhole, never to be seen again....
_or would they_ **Dun dun duuun** lol (nah, but the dramatic effect is kewl)
Bold you you to assume brutality is never a reasonable and valid response or solution.
If we think clearly Grievous is the best general of Star Wars
To bad the cannon version of general grevious would completely butcher his character. He’s a total joke in cannon ☹️
It bothers me when people mention war crimes in Star Wars. Their universe is different and I've never seen or read about a Geneva Convention or United Nations in their timeline that labeled these actions war crimes. Extreme measures just happen in war and we have to accept that
Geets has a video about this and how there had been something similar to the Geneva Covention. Also according to their morals according to George Lucas is similar to ours so a war crime here would be there for most cultures
@@zacharybare6967 That's interesting I'll have to go back and find the video on it. Thanks for the input
The republic was overrated.
So was the Jedi order.
The separatists were not as bad as people make them out to be.
Geetsly’s however, remains as impressive as ever
There were good people in it. But at the same time, it was corrupt from basically the start with key members prolonging the war for their own financial gain. Then you have high ranking leaders like Grievous and Ventress who essentially kill for sport.
Their council was anything but good
@@neofulcrum5013 and the Ukrainian government is incredibly corrupt and mainly out for number 1... you think they shouldn't defend themselves? o.O
@@marklucachev6695 you’re comparing the government of Ukraine to a council of corpos running a secessionist movement? Wow
Sounds like republic propaganda to me...
Looks like someone has been listening to Imperial propaganda.
Jesus loves you
Did I get first for once?
No
:(
Yes.
Yes you're first.
Life goal?
Princess Leia: Why you STUCK UP, HALF-WITTED, SCRUBBY-LOOKING, NERF-HERDER!!!
Canderous Ordo, standing in for Han Solo: Insults? Maybe if your skills with a lightsaber were as good as your lip, those stormtroopers wouldn't have got you, you SPOILED LITTLE JEDI PRINCESS!!!
Princess Leia: *ROASTED*.
Please make this the next comment of the week, thank you.
Princess Leia: at least we won our war. How’s your homeworld, mandalorian?
*pew pew* shots fired. Target down
@@neofulcrum5013 Wow, nice, and toasty, though I was just referencing two pieces of Star Wars Legends plotlines in one comment (The quote from KOTOR, and Leia becoming a Jedi Knight in Legends after Endor).
However, to rebuff your comment, Canderous' homeworld got nuked pretty badly, BUT AT LEAST IT WASN'T RENDERED COMPLETELY NON-EXISTENT, AND TOTALLY UNLIVEABLE LIKE LEIA'S HOMEWORLD! I mean, why do surviving Mandalorians (Bo-Katan Kryze for example) still want to reclaim Mandalore as a homeworld from The Empire, if it was rendered completely unsustainable for life?
Also, About winning wars, Leia's homeworld got conquered too by The Sith in The 3600s BBY, so Canderous, and Mandalore as a whole isn't alone in this case. Sure, you could say, The Jedi/Republic then liberated the planet later, to which I say, THEY STILL LOST THE WHOLE WAR AT THE SACKING OF CORUSCANT, ANYWAY! I'm pretty sure Alderaan was still affected when THAT happened. (Idk why I'm Caps Locking my responses like this, but I'm pretty sure it has to be EMPHASIZING MY POINT, RIGHT!?)
@@neofulcrum5013 Nice job trying to roast me back, though, but I just wanted to respond to it anyway.
@@neofulcrum5013 Plus, I just want a Notice Me Senpai moment with Geetslys' Comment of The Week, I didn't want to start a roast chain with you.
Why do i have a feeling this video is going to just be one big SJW lecture as it relates to Star Wars!? :)
What?
What the kriff are you talking about?