It doesn't matter that Christina's sister denies her allegations of abuse. Bad parenting comes in many forms, one of which is singling out a child for abuse while treating that child's siblings favorably.
There’s people who have stated that they witnessed some of this behavior and the fact that they were written out of the will wasn’t a snub, it was a middle finger
Yes you are right there were people who knew the truth about what joan did to Christina and Christopher but because joan was a famous wealthy woman she was being protected cheryl crane daughter of lana Turner asked her mother if christina was telling the truth and she confirmed it was true cheryl was totally shocked sadly im not about this as Christopher and the twins they passed away several years ago only Christina is alive
I remember when the memoir was published. At that time, people did NOT tell stories about child abuse, let alone about famous, beloved stars. The book and the movie are criticized for making Joan look like a monster, but they are told from a child's perspective. A parent like this can appear to be a monster. They can beat you, humiliate you, starve you -- who knows what they can do? There were times when my mother abused me in ways similar to Joan, and I was terrified. It did seem like she was turning into a monster before my eyes.
I love Mommie Dearest book and movie. I think it's one of the best movies ever made. It's just so sad with child abuse, and the actress that plays Joan Crawford (Faye dunaway) embodied the famous actress. Powerful movie and book. Also, I just wanted to add that christina, yes, had a lot of trauma that came with the abuse, why she depended on her mother, like that thing of a mother saying u are NOTHING without me.
Great job providing a balanced perspective! I agree with your viewpoint since none of us were there, we couldn’t know with certainty exactly what happened, but you make a compelling case that the truth most likely lies somewhere in between. It sounds like Christina, at least somewhat fueled by vengeance, and perhaps not getting her entitled “needs” met, decided to portray Joan only in a negative light in her book. The movie, accurately or inaccurately demonstrates other challenges that Joan was likely experiencing at the time, including being an aging actress in the 1940-1950’s. Without having a dog in the race, most of us realize that life is complicated, there is such a thing as nuance, and people are multifaceted, so we can deduce Christina probably was abused terribly, but maybe not as bad as what she described in her book.
I read the book and, personally, I think that Christina’s personal accounts felt raw and authentic. At many times I felt she granted Joan a degree of grace and understanding, but that she had a deep hurt that her mother was always treating maternal love as an unattainable privilege rather than something that should be a given in a parent child relationship. I was struck by how the mind games Joan played and the gaslighting she used on Tina felt like the same thing one of my aunts goes through with her mother and how hurtful it is and draining it can be. The fact that Christina wrote it all at a time where it would’ve been frowned upon to vent about the harm inflicted by a narcissistic parent … yeah, frankly, I have a lot of respect for the girl. Joan was a talented actress, yes, definitely, but it doesn’t mean she was always in the right. I can never understand people excusing her from having taken her anger and rage out on her kids.
Oh wow, I didn't know that! I did see that the studio that released Mommie Dearest was the only studio Joan Crawford never worked for so that was interesting.
Another great episode on a wide ranging multifaceted story. Joan Crawford was the daughter of a Swedish immigrant who lived in Texas & Oklahoma, Anna Le Sueur Cassin. She also had a brother Hal who for many years suffered with alcoholism and was supported and favored by Anna. Joan got Hal a job at M-G-M but he lacked Joan's drive & ambition. I always felt that Joan over projected herself onto Christina and her feelings about Hal onto Christopher. Side not Christina continually claimed that neither Cindy nor Cathy were actual twins, but that was denied by both girls when asked and maybe birth records were presented. There was a child Joan tried to adopt but the birth mother appeared and that adoption never worked out. Ann Blyth, Joan's costar in MILDRED PIERCE who is still alive & was a visitor admits Joan could be obsessive with housecleaning but never saw any signs of what Christina saw going on. Myrna Loy claims working with Christina on a play in Chicago that she was an entitled and difficult costar but it could have been contractual issues Loy did not know of. Philip Terry was Joan's third husband and a second tier actor at RKO. Greg Bautzer was a powerful Hollywood lawyer, who dated many leading ladies including Lana Turner and Ginger Rogers. Dana Andrews costared with Joan & Henry Fonda in DAISY KENYON where child abuse is a subplot. Read Judy Lewis's autobiography as the "adopted" daughter of Loretta Young & the secret illegitimate daughter of Clark Gable & Loretta, one of the worst kept secrets in Hollywood, according to Jack Haley, Jr. She became a psychiatrist and examines the matriachal background of Loretta's grandmother and sisters. Keep up the good work
That whole bit about Christina taking Joan to court to have Christopher emancipated? Did anyone ever unearth those court records? Because that seems like a *very* easy way to corroborate Christina's account. If this is true, why isn't this regularly brought up in the "Mommy Dearest" discourse?
Talk about an absolute mess of controversies. I do think Christina did tell a lot of truths and considering there were people who knew who abusive Joan was but didn’t help cause she was Joan Crawford, movie star, makes it sadder. I never read the book, but seen bits of the movie and as over the top and weird it can get, the abuse scenes are absolutely awful to watch
@@Eric_1991 yeah I read quite a bit on that. Be Kind Rewind did a great vid on the whole history behind the making of the movie; basically a clash of how to adapt the book
Read Gary Crosby's book "Going My Own Way," not made into a movie. It is a great example of what you're saying about not writing with perspective when you're now in a good place emotionally. Crosby relished taking his famous father down, and the son comes off as an entitled prick! The abuse is described horrifically, but the son's attitude makes you feel absolutely nothing for him! Gary Crosby sought no therapy, and it shows! As for Christina Crawford, I agree with you about the simplicity of the writing, especially in the later chapters. One thing that really bothered me was Christina's dismissive tone in describing her mother's friendships with gay men.
In the book,Haunted Hollywood, by Brad Steiger,Christina said that they lived in a notorious house that was built up from a bungalow that was owned by the Mafia. Many horrible events happened there, including tortures and unaluvings. The house and grounds were badly haunted,because of the awful psychic atmosphere surrounding it. She remembers seeing a little boy,but,has blocked most of what she saw. She blames the haunting and general evil atmosphere of the house with Joan's behavior.
With Joan Crawford, I separate my respect and admiration for her as an actress (one of the best) from the abuse claims. I’ve watched interviews with Christina, and of course the movie, but I haven’t read the book. Joan sounds very similar in personality and background to my abusive father, so many things about Christina’s claims ring true for me. Joan might very well have mellowed out somewhat by the time she had the twins, but again, who knows? Thank you for being so balanced and sensitive about such painful subject.
I agree that a lot of the things she says about herself sound like she is someone who came from an abusive home, which again makes me feel there is truth to what she says. And yeah, it's nice to think Joan improved as a mother as time went on, but clearly up until the end she still had ill feelings towards her two oldest.
Interesting how Christina Crawford is still being called a liar, yet so many people want to believe the allegations of Lyle and Erik Menendez "because they're so cute."
It's not just because they are "cute" it's because in the 90s a lot of people didn't take male sexual abuse seriously. I don't agree at all people are defending them for just their looks.
I really feel bad for christina and Christopher what they went through in there childhood is heartbreaking she was brave to write her book and tell her story especially at the time it came out i heard many people didn't like that she wrote the book including betty Davis of all people hopefully it helped other survivors i didn't know this until recently due to her childhood she choose not to have kids i understand her decision i watched the movie when i was a child it was hard for me to watch it and traumatizing never read the book i hope someday there will be another adaptation on christina book
The producer of The Secret Storm, the daytime drama Christina had a part on, went on the record that HE approached Joan to fill in for Christina, not the other way around.
Hi, I really like your channel. I just wanted to let you know that her name is Christina, and in the movie, her mom keeps calling her “Tina darling”. Tina is short for Christina, not Christine. Great analysis, but you kept calling her Christine. Thanks for all your work.
The book and the movie both make Christina out to be the eternal victim. Most people who knew both Christina and Joan say that Christina's book (and the movie afterward) was the lowest sort of opportunistic character assassination. Many of Joan's friends who read the book and saw the movie were appalled, never speaking to Christina again...including the two twin girls who had been adopted by Joan after Christina and Chris. Christina said it wasn't about the money and the will which cut her and her brother out, but it absolutely was. Joan Crawford died with a lot of money left over from marriage to Al Steele, and Christina didn't see a dime of it, and that pissed her off. Oh, and then this: "DON'T F&%$ WITH ME FELLAS!!!!!" Man, Faye Dunaway wasn't just chewing the scenery, she was dining out on it! That's one of the greatest unhinged moments in that movie, when Joan flips out on the Pepsi board. I love that.
Again, the Twins were not even there when most of the abuse took place and by the time they show up, Christina was already sent away to school. It would seem the problem is that Christina turned out to be as headstrong as Joan and started to show it the moment she learned to speak. The honeymoon was over and reality hits. I knew someone who was friends with Christina when they were in college and saw first hand how Christina would freak out and becomes very anxious and fearful thinking about how Joan might react even if something was out of her control (like not being make it to a theater performance because of a snow storm). I am being a bit too specific here, if she reads this, she would know it's me.
Additional comment : Christina & Christopher both sued the twins for their portion of Joan's estate, l believe it was. Both received $5,000.00. Soon after Christopher and Christina had a falling out that was never repaired. I believe Christopher was ADHD which made him frustrated with school and was little understood then. He married and had a family and construction company in Florida
I loved watching the movie when i was a kid. I had it recorded on a beta tape off the tv. I knew someone who had an aunt or something that worked for Joan for a minute and confirmed the abuse. I don’t know the extent tho As a kid I assumed it was kinda like it was in the movie. I ended up finding the book at a local yard sale. The book was in very bad shape so it was hard going thru and the fact it was so different. The other children were in the book whearas movie only had Christopher and Christina Book vs movie truth is in the middle. Movies often dramatize things for effect
Great video. I agree Dunaway's performance is killer although the choking scene was a bit of a laugh. I think her next movie was The Wicked Lady of which I heard got poor reviews but I think she bounced back with 1987's Barfly. A couple of suggestions would be The Last Picture Show by Larry McMurtry and The Day of the Locust by Nathanael West. Both books were made into excellent movies imho.
Christina claims she began the book after the reading of the will, but others say that Joan cut Christina from the will because Christina began working on the book and Joan was aware of it. So it's hard to know the truth. If she cut Christina from the will because of the book, that makes sense, but it doesn't explain why she cut Chris out as well.
It’s sad how Chris is essentially forgotten. I do believe there’s some truth to the book but none of us on the outside will never know what really happened.
Christina told Larry King that the book was written from the perspective of a child, this fact is often overlooked . I have read the book and agree that the movie gives a more layered view of the dynamic between mother/daughter. Jmo
Thanks for the review! I haven't read the book, but I've always wanted to. I love the movie! One thing I'd like to mention about Christina's obsession with money. Often times, parents expect their kids to look "the part". Let's say they were raised in an affluent/rich but abusive home, where it looks like the kids are spoiled. But when the kids grow up and aren't emotionally equipped to hold down a well paying job, they are still pressured to look "the part". I imagine growing up around all these other rich families who don't abuse their kids, she did feel entitled to money. It's like she was owed that money for enduring the trauma her mother put her through. Then, having to type other student's papers to make money must have been humiliating to her. Obviously I believe Christina's accounts of abuse growing up. But who knows. As Faye Dunaway has stated: only God knows the truth about what really happened between the two of them. I have a lot of thoughts on it as I saw the movie on tv as a little kid and it made me cry because I didn't understand why grown ups would let the abuse go on. I now love the movie as a camp classic!
Thanks for your review. 😊 I’ve seen the movie a few times and boy oh boy 😅 I never got around to reading the book. BUT both my grandniece and mother - neither were Crawford fabs as far as her movies - remembered Joan’s soap opera appearance. Both said it was like this young woman was there one day and then without missing a beat Joan Crawford - not Grand Hotel Joan but more William Castle schlocky movie Joan - appears in the same role. My grandmother tried to be nice and say she was okay. My mother - brutally honest as always - said “I think she was drunk!” 😂 And THAT was my first memory of Joan Crawford, years before I saw the movies that made her famous.
Oh wow, the fact that average viewers could even tell she was drunk is really saying something opposed to just Christina who knew what her mom was like when she drank. What an introduction lol, it's unfortunate though because she really was an amazing actor!
@@WhytheBookWinsIf you ever get an opportunity to see her in The Unknown with Lon Chaney Sr. or Grand Hotel or The Women, you’ll be getting her at the beginnings of her career. By Mildred Pierce she had the Crawford mystique down. Baby Jane - her AND Bette Davis 😂 A tour de force. When you get to Strait-Jacket and Trog you’re just in it for the camp. And oh crap. I think Diane Baker - who plays her daughter in Strait-Jacket has a slight resemblance to Christina Crawford so I imagine Joan had a blast as the mom who gets released from the asylum after chopping up her cheating hubby and his girlfriend. 😂 THAT should have been a book.
It possibly could have been hard to have been a known child of a celebrity and a young woman at that time and find a good paying job? This may be one of those situations that’s hard to look at with a modern view. I do know it was so difficult to work and go to school when I was doing it 20 years ago. You are sooooo correct about kids having different experiences with their parents!! My husband and I will say that we are much better parents with our youngest and we were with our oldest. Not because of anything nefarious. We were just young and an experienced with our first.
Yeah true, I don't know what the school/job life balance would have been like back then. And yeah, parents change so much jay because like you said, at the beginning they are younger and are figuring it out as they go along.
You should'n demand more explanations from Christina about the stable episode. She says big impacts to her, not for us. It's to her own psyche, mind, psychology, emotional life. She shouldn't be demanded to create more and more text and speculation about the inner emotions and consequences of her life changing moments. She's writing the book about events. It's not a day by day inner emotions and thoughts about how many days and minutes the stable episode impacted her life.
This is one of those stories I will never read or watch, because 1) I'm a mom and 2) I also suffer from childhood trauma. I cannot conceive this unacceptable level of abuse. I know about this story for years and all the surrounding drama. I was very curious to listen to your analysis. Some of us won't have the courage to do it. It feels too close to home. Congratulations on that. :) Putting myself on Christina's shoes, you do display some odd behaviours when you're a victim of childhood trauma. You may become flirtatious and an anxious people-pleaser. It's a sign that you weren't loved nor protected at home. You may also dissociate from the events that happened (as in the sexual assault scene) and/or develop an avoidant attachment style. The fact that Christine comes back and forward may indicate some memory fog or confusion, which is quite typical in many victims. You have to try to remember things as clearly as possible. And you're not able to move on and become independent because your caregivers were constantly ensuring themselves you would never be able to fly with your own wings. It's their goal. At the same time, you still crave for their love and attention. And you finally become "infected" by the caregivers "disease". You may not be narcissistic but you still display some of those traits, such as taking revenge. Joan Crawford was hurtful until the very end. Christine's book is only a revenge mechanism against her dead mother. For Christine to succeed in life and with her book she needed to heal first. That is the saddest part. She overcame nothing in the end. She just responded in her own toxic way, allowing the controversy to happen. Maybe one day "Glad My Mother Died" will become a movie. Then, you can compare both book and movie and add this one as an example of what happens when people don't heal. Keep up your excellent work!
Thank you so much for sharing! And yeah people want the "perfect victim" who has a perfect recollection of things but that just doesn't exists. And so true about McCurdy's book! I wish I would have thought to reference that one in this video.
It's interesting to hear you say that the movie humanizes Joan cause I've heard the complete opposite. Like from what others have said, it made her out to be this inhuman monster with the no hire hangers scene, that creepy scene where she's lotioning her elbows after Christina discovers her dolls gone and how she kinda went demonic when cutting Christina's hair which from what I heard wasn't in the book and also when she had that physical brawl with Christina after Christina embarrasses her during her interview. I just find it kinda interesting how some seem to say the movie made Joan out to be worse than she was and others say the book is the one that makes her out to be worse than she was.
Yeah the book doesn't have the haircut scene, but it does have the scene when she attacks Christina and Christina claims Joan would have killed her had someone not pulled her off. But yeah, others may have a different takeaway but i still think the movie was more well rounded though it is still over the top in many ways.
That's interesting. It didn't bother me that she complained about money. She was abused and had to raise herself emotionally. I don't think she had a sense of money just because she became of age. It's confusing but it didn't stand out for me. She wasn't an experienced writer and it was kind of jumbled together. Enjoyed hearing your take.
I'm planning on releasing that video the end of November! My main video will be on the Crawford movie but I might do a follow up video sharing my thoughts on the show.
@@WhytheBookWins I think it would be interesting to compare both adaptations to the book, particularly as the miniseries is actually more loyal to the original book, whereas as the 1945 film was made more of a film noir melodrama with a murder at the center of it, which did not happen in the book at all.
Greetings, great video. I have read the book and watched the movie. Yes, many oeople cane to JCs defense but others confirmed the above. I knew soneone who was abused by both parents. Her older sister was able to move sooner to get away from the abuse. The parents were bat shit crazy but you would not know it when they performed at festivals, the family was musical and they played traditional Newfoundland music. The situation was just bizarre. Love your work.❤❤
So horrible, it reminds me of the part in Mommie Dearst when they are on the radio talking about their Christmas traditions and you would never have guessed what was going on.
I think hearing the story today, the events are barely shocking. Sounds like typical antagonism from an abusive parent to me. I think it was rushed to publishing and needed workshopped into a narrative with purpose instead of a litany of events. Britney Spears's memoir is the same way. Interesting read but just a series of things that happened.
I like that she hasn't healed from her childhood abuse. I felt a soccer punch in the stomach when she was excluded from the will. There are certain elements that remind me of my mom. I liked the scene when there was a ring under something and she moved it aside acting like she had to do everything.
I do enjoy the movies campiness. I am not laughing at the abuse just the over the top way Faye Dunaway deliver some of lines like in front of a reporter . It’s a fun movie to mock but still sad nobody came and made a more serious movie. I do come out feeling bad for Cristina so it’s not all camp or bad though. That’s crazy that she pulled out of school over the Christmas card. I also think the truth is in the middle or it’s often hard to know
Why were the twins never mentioned in book or movie is it because the twins would have gone after Christine for defamation? The one thing that got me was how she didn't like that she was only allowed to keep 1 birthday present and the rest were donated to underprivileged children that's the only part of the movie that I was like why is she so spoiled why not give the presents to underprivileged kids you got a house full of toys and she got mad because she had to give up her toys on her birthday I don't know you know I really don't know cuz I've never been rich...lol..but she was given one heak of a bithday party..if that was even true or just put in the movie idk.Thank you I love your channel 😊
Yeah i agree, donating you many toys seems like a nice thing to do! And yeah, she got lavish birthday parties, but in the book she says she felt lonely because the people and kids invited tended to be people she didn't even know. And thank you! 😊
I think some of it was learned behavior. Joan was also quite entitled. But also she may have been somewhat resentful of the show put on by her mother. Everyone sees her give her daughter all of these presents making her seem so generous and loving. Then, seemingly without discussing it with Christina, Joan tells her she can’t keep them (and even the giving the toys to charity was more PR for Joan). Christina was a little kid and little kids are inherently selfish and entitled because THEIR world revolves around them. They don’t know better yet. Joan should have helped her daughter understand. I don’t hold that against her.
What I don’t get is if Joan Crawford is that why go through so much to adopt if you’re going to act all wicked stepmother on her? Did Joan Crawford have a psychological imbalance?
Plenty of people want children cause they like the idea of parenthood but get irate at the fact that their kids are their own people. My aunt has a mother who is frequently passive aggressive and withholds affection to feel like she’s winning. The idea of motherhood to her is having a child who obeys everything and if that’s not how it goes it’s the kid being defective. I think that was Joan’s MO with Christina.
@@Nightman221k one thing about that is that just because you want kids, doesn’t mean it works to just wing it. I feel Joan should have done her homework. I definitely have to wonder what her own mother was like cuz mothers tend to take after their own mother and then to snub her in the will? She should have at least had the decency to state why. I don’t think she loved her two oldest because she wouldn’t have cut them out of the will if she had
I would say most people with money help out their kids. I heard Joan didn't want to give them anything. I can understand Christina's POV. All the abuse she suffered, later on in life does kind of make you feel entitled and RESENTFUL! Like at least the very wealthy parent could kind of make up for it by helping you more or giving you what other wealthy parents give their kids, you have to think... surely she saw that all around her, those rich kids having the support and monetary from their wealthy parents, so that also makes you feel bad about everything, never really feeling loved. It's not her fault. She lived a certain lifestyle that was extravagant, and then the wealthy parent doesn't want to support that lifestyle anymore. That doesn't make sense to me as a parent. As a mom, I wouldn't deprive my kids of things and want them to have more than I did. Her brother's statement says a lot.
@WhytheBookWins Looking forward to Baby Jane, lol. When you watch that, can I recommend watching "Feud" Season 1. Jessica Lange plays Joan and Susan Sarandon plays Betty, they were fabulous and it all takes place during the time they filmed the movie!
Christina isn’t perfect? What a shock! She was entitled and annoying and I guess that makes her less of a sympathetic character. Maybe she saw her mother help others with money and the fact that her mother wouldn’t give her money made her feel inferior. Maybe Joan showed love through money. So, if your mother won’t help you financially, maybe it makes you feel unloved and brings up terrible emotions. I have no idea if that is what happened, but it is possible that there is a deeper reason why she wanted financial help as a young adult. Child abuse is a one-sided crime. This is why I do NOT tell anyone about my childhood abuse. It just makes you a target of more judgment. I recommend that no one ever speak of their abuse outside of therapy. People don’t deserve to know and you don’t deserve the judgment.
Yeah it takes a lot of courage to open up about this, and then especially to write a book and really open yourself up to scrutiny. But I'm glad she shared her story and was one of the first to really being awareness to child abuse in this way.
Honestly? I don’t blame Christina one bit. If I had a famous parent (especially a rich one that cut me out), I would have dragged them for filth too. Maybe that’s wicked, but oh well 🤷♂️ Good video! I had never gotten around to reading the book, but the movie is definitely a guilty pleasure.
I have no interest in reading the book, but have seen the movie so i can only speak to that. I have no doubt that joan was problematic, but i never found the abuse portrayed in the movie particularly harsh, which probably says a lot about my childhood. Christina however comes across as spoiled and bratty. I think that strapping a kid in bed was fairly common at one time as a treatment for sleep walking or falling out of bed. When the picture of dana andrews brother popped up on screen, i totally said, "he could play dana andrews." We'll never no the full story, etc., but ill remain team Joan.
Oh wow I need to look up about strapping kids in bed-that seems so horrible but I guess back then old school parenting methods could be pretty wild by todays standards. And yeah, it's impossible to know the complete truth. Thanks for commenting and sharing your thoughts!
You didn't find Joan cutting up Christina's hair, feeding her rotting meat, the entire "no hire hangers" scene or when she tried to choke Christina out particularly harsh? I'm truly sorry for what you had to endure in your childhood if you had it worse than that.
Because so many events are impossible to verify, because of the complexities in psychology and parenting, this feels like an impossible topic to tackle. Brava for giving it a thoughtful effort, but this is a rough one. I agree The Glass Castle was on a different plane, that the lack of judgment or bitterness on the author’s part is what separates it from Christina Crawford’s obvious hatchet job. And yeah, I’m guessing she wishes she waited til she wasn’t so raw, but if she was going for the money, maybe not. I have never read Mommy Dearest, but if the movie gave a more balanced look into Joan’s side? Wow. Hard to imagine it was worse in the book.
Considering the circumstances that this was Christina‘s first book, and it was coming from a place of pain, I get it. I too, am working on a memoir, and let me tell you one of my biggest concerns is how it will be received.🤔
From what I've read from people who knew Joan well, she was strict with her kids. She disciplined them. But she was not abusive. She came from nothing. Dirt poor. She wasn't born with a silver spoon in her mouth. She didn't want her kids to be spoiled, entitled brats and wanted them to be grateful for what they had. And apparently, Christina was entitled and saw the discipline as abuse. I'm only speaking from what I've read. Some insist Christina is flat out lying about her mother. Now those people could only be defending Joan's image. Who knows for sure? I don't think we're ever gonna know what really happened between those two.
The book has a lot of factual inaccuracies, like Joan got the children legally and Christina even said the twins weren’t biologically related (they sued her for this and won in court!). I would just look at the credibility or the source because Christina’s been a proven liar multiple times (for instance, in the book she tries to make Joan out to be a racist because she supposedly didn’t allow Christina to invite her black friend to the birthday party but home movies of that party has since surfaced and the black child was not only in attendance, but seated next to Christina the entire time). Even the thing about Christopher being strapped into bed being horrible was something the doctor recommended because he slept walked at night and they were afraid he’d harm himself. Again, I’d just take those things and the source into consideration!! (Also you mentioned the cutting of the rose bush and Christina said in an interview on YT that that never happened)
In the book she says she threw a fit until Joan let her friend come to the party so that would explain why she is in the photo. And in the book also says Chris was strapped into bed too prevent sleep walking. I don't remember whether she said a doctor advised it though. And in the book we know all of the kids were adopted, sorry if I made it seem like the twins were Joan's biologically.
I believe it was true. From hearing a story my mama told my daddy. My great-grandfather a preacher man. My great grandparents took my mom for ice cream cone. The ice cream melted on her pretty dress. My great grandmother upset went and cut my mom pretty long dress for that. When my grandmother died when my mama was just a teenager. My so called grandfather give the kids to my grandmother family. My mama and her baby went to one of the aunts. She made my aunt sleep in a box. When my mama got in trouble she whipped her with dog chains. Lucky my uncle came and got the girls to go live with him. Back then nobody talked abused that was life to them.
Christina strikes me as insincere. I know people cope with their traumatic past in their own ways but everything she says just puts up a red flag in my head. Why is it every few years she re-releases the book with sudden new material? Why is it she goes to releases of the film and allows drag queens to chase her with wire hangers? I know real abuse. I've been truly abused. And I would never poke fun at it in that way. Something about her whole trajectory is off and I'm not buying what she's selling
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I'm sorry to hear you also have experienced abuse. Like you said, everyone deals with trauma differently. I am close to someone who was abused growing up and as the decades have passed he will make jokes about it in a dark humor kind of way. So Christina might not act in a way that makes sense all of the time, but I don't see that as proof she isn't telling the truth.
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
What Ever Happened to Baby Jane? book vs movie will be up October 21 and Mildred Pierce book vs movie will be up November 18!
It doesn't matter that Christina's sister denies her allegations of abuse. Bad parenting comes in many forms, one of which is singling out a child for abuse while treating that child's siblings favorably.
So true!
There’s people who have stated that they witnessed some of this behavior and the fact that they were written out of the will wasn’t a snub, it was a middle finger
Yes you are right there were people who knew the truth about what joan did to Christina and Christopher but because joan was a famous wealthy woman she was being protected cheryl crane daughter of lana Turner asked her mother if christina was telling the truth and she confirmed it was true cheryl was totally shocked sadly im not about this as Christopher and the twins they passed away several years ago only Christina is alive
I remember when the memoir was published. At that time, people did NOT tell stories about child abuse, let alone about famous, beloved stars. The book and the movie are criticized for making Joan look like a monster, but they are told from a child's perspective. A parent like this can appear to be a monster. They can beat you, humiliate you, starve you -- who knows what they can do? There were times when my mother abused me in ways similar to Joan, and I was terrified. It did seem like she was turning into a monster before my eyes.
Yeah I really admire her for being one of the first people to bring this to light!
I love Mommie Dearest book and movie. I think it's one of the best movies ever made. It's just so sad with child abuse, and the actress that plays Joan Crawford (Faye dunaway) embodied the famous actress.
Powerful movie and book.
Also, I just wanted to add that christina, yes, had a lot of trauma that came with the abuse, why she depended on her mother, like that thing of a mother saying u are NOTHING without me.
Yeah abusers make the people feel they have to keep them in their life, so even once she turned 18 it is harder said than done to cut ties.
It’s not that unusual for an abusive parent to be selective in their abuse. Also, they had Al Steele who likely kept Joan grounded.
Yeah being married to Steele definitely would have made a difference in how the twins were raised!
Great job providing a balanced perspective! I agree with your viewpoint since none of us were there, we couldn’t know with certainty exactly what happened, but you make a compelling case that the truth most likely lies somewhere in between. It sounds like Christina, at least somewhat fueled by vengeance, and perhaps not getting her entitled “needs” met, decided to portray Joan only in a negative light in her book. The movie, accurately or inaccurately demonstrates other challenges that Joan was likely experiencing at the time, including being an aging actress in the 1940-1950’s. Without having a dog in the race, most of us realize that life is complicated, there is such a thing as nuance, and people are multifaceted, so we can deduce Christina probably was abused terribly, but maybe not as bad as what she described in her book.
Yeah it's a tough, complicated topic for many reasons! I'm glad you liked my approach.
I read the book and, personally, I think that Christina’s personal accounts felt raw and authentic. At many times I felt she granted Joan a degree of grace and understanding, but that she had a deep hurt that her mother was always treating maternal love as an unattainable privilege rather than something that should be a given in a parent child relationship. I was struck by how the mind games Joan played and the gaslighting she used on Tina felt like the same thing one of my aunts goes through with her mother and how hurtful it is and draining it can be. The fact that Christina wrote it all at a time where it would’ve been frowned upon to vent about the harm inflicted by a narcissistic parent … yeah, frankly, I have a lot of respect for the girl. Joan was a talented actress, yes, definitely, but it doesn’t mean she was always in the right. I can never understand people excusing her from having taken her anger and rage out on her kids.
Thanks for sharing! And yeah, just because you respect someone's work doesn't mean they are above being human and having big flaws.
If I remember correctly, Faye Dunaway was black listed for doing this movie…so crazy
Oh wow, I didn't know that! I did see that the studio that released Mommie Dearest was the only studio Joan Crawford never worked for so that was interesting.
And THIS is why we have Child Protective Services
Even with that, kids still fall through the cracks today. Woefully understaffed and under funded
@@victorialawhon2251 oh, without a doubt. One infamous example is Gypsy Rose Blanchard
Another great episode on a wide ranging multifaceted story. Joan Crawford was the daughter of a Swedish immigrant who lived in Texas & Oklahoma, Anna Le Sueur Cassin. She also had a brother Hal who for many years suffered with alcoholism and was supported and favored by Anna. Joan got Hal a job at M-G-M but he lacked Joan's drive & ambition. I always felt that Joan over projected herself onto Christina and her feelings about Hal onto Christopher. Side not Christina continually claimed that neither Cindy nor Cathy were actual twins, but that was denied by both girls when asked and maybe birth records were presented. There was a child Joan tried to adopt but the birth mother appeared and that adoption never worked out. Ann Blyth, Joan's costar in MILDRED PIERCE who is still alive & was a visitor admits Joan could be obsessive with housecleaning but never saw any signs of what Christina saw going on. Myrna Loy claims working with Christina on a play in Chicago that she was an entitled and difficult costar but it could have been contractual issues Loy did not know of. Philip Terry was Joan's third husband and a second tier actor at RKO. Greg Bautzer was a powerful Hollywood lawyer, who dated many leading ladies including Lana Turner and Ginger Rogers. Dana Andrews costared with Joan & Henry Fonda in DAISY KENYON where child abuse is a subplot. Read Judy Lewis's autobiography as the "adopted" daughter of Loretta Young & the secret illegitimate daughter of Clark Gable & Loretta, one of the worst kept secrets in Hollywood, according to Jack Haley, Jr. She became a psychiatrist and examines the matriachal background of Loretta's grandmother and sisters. Keep up the good work
Thanks for commenting! Glad you liked the video 😊
That whole bit about Christina taking Joan to court to have Christopher emancipated?
Did anyone ever unearth those court records?
Because that seems like a *very* easy way to corroborate Christina's account.
If this is true, why isn't this regularly brought up in the "Mommy Dearest" discourse?
That's such a good point!
Talk about an absolute mess of controversies. I do think Christina did tell a lot of truths and considering there were people who knew who abusive Joan was but didn’t help cause she was Joan Crawford, movie star, makes it sadder. I never read the book, but seen bits of the movie and as over the top and weird it can get, the abuse scenes are absolutely awful to watch
Yeah it's crazy how child abuse was treated back then and how they're were no resources!
Apparently Christina wasn't a fan of the movie because she claimed they exaggerated a lot of her claims
@@Eric_1991 yeah I read quite a bit on that. Be Kind Rewind did a great vid on the whole history behind the making of the movie; basically a clash of how to adapt the book
Gaye Dunaway ACTED her ass off!! I remember that Joan Crawford had mentioned that she wanted Faye Dunaway to play her
Agreed! She's fantastic!
Joan was gone when the book was written. I wonder when she said she wanted Faye to play her.
Read Gary Crosby's book "Going My Own Way," not made into a movie. It is a great example of what you're saying about not writing with perspective when you're now in a good place emotionally. Crosby relished taking his famous father down, and the son comes off as an entitled prick! The abuse is described horrifically, but the son's attitude makes you feel absolutely nothing for him! Gary Crosby sought no therapy, and it shows! As for Christina Crawford, I agree with you about the simplicity of the writing, especially in the later chapters. One thing that really bothered me was Christina's dismissive tone in describing her mother's friendships with gay men.
Oh wow, I didn't know his son wrote a book!
And yeah, the way she wrote about certain topics was odd at times.
In the book,Haunted Hollywood, by Brad Steiger,Christina said that they lived in a notorious house that was built up from a bungalow that was owned by the Mafia.
Many horrible events happened there, including tortures and unaluvings.
The house and grounds were badly haunted,because of the awful psychic atmosphere surrounding it.
She remembers seeing a little boy,but,has blocked most of what she saw. She blames the haunting and general evil atmosphere of the house with Joan's behavior.
With Joan Crawford, I separate my respect and admiration for her as an actress (one of the best) from the abuse claims. I’ve watched interviews with Christina, and of course the movie, but I haven’t read the book. Joan sounds very similar in personality and background to my abusive father, so many things about Christina’s claims ring true for me. Joan might very well have mellowed out somewhat by the time she had the twins, but again, who knows? Thank you for being so balanced and sensitive about such painful subject.
I agree that a lot of the things she says about herself sound like she is someone who came from an abusive home, which again makes me feel there is truth to what she says. And yeah, it's nice to think Joan improved as a mother as time went on, but clearly up until the end she still had ill feelings towards her two oldest.
We never got our Jewish Mafia movie.
Interesting how Christina Crawford is still being called a liar, yet so many people want to believe the allegations of Lyle and Erik Menendez "because they're so cute."
It's not just because they are "cute" it's because in the 90s a lot of people didn't take male sexual abuse seriously. I don't agree at all people are defending them for just their looks.
I really feel bad for christina and Christopher what they went through in there childhood is heartbreaking she was brave to write her book and tell her story especially at the time it came out i heard many people didn't like that she wrote the book including betty Davis of all people hopefully it helped other survivors i didn't know this until recently due to her childhood she choose not to have kids i understand her decision i watched the movie when i was a child it was hard for me to watch it and traumatizing never read the book i hope someday there will be another adaptation on christina book
Yeah a lot of Hollywood came out against the book, which isn't surprising. That would be interesting if they remake it.
The producer of The Secret Storm, the daytime drama Christina had a part on, went on the record that HE approached Joan to fill in for Christina, not the other way around.
Hm, asking someone 30 years older seems like an odd choice. But maybe he was hoping her big name would help with the ratings.
In Helen Hayes’ book she writes that Joan Crawford was not a good mother.
Hi, I really like your channel. I just wanted to let you know that her name is Christina, and in the movie, her mom keeps calling her “Tina darling”. Tina is short for Christina, not Christine. Great analysis, but you kept calling her Christine. Thanks for all your work.
Great video as always! Have you ever thought of doing a 13 reasons why book vs show? I’ve heard the book is pretty interesting
I didn't know that was based on a book! I'll look into it.
The book and the movie both make Christina out to be the eternal victim. Most people who knew both Christina and Joan say that Christina's book (and the movie afterward) was the lowest sort of opportunistic character assassination. Many of Joan's friends who read the book and saw the movie were appalled, never speaking to Christina again...including the two twin girls who had been adopted by Joan after Christina and Chris. Christina said it wasn't about the money and the will which cut her and her brother out, but it absolutely was. Joan Crawford died with a lot of money left over from marriage to Al Steele, and Christina didn't see a dime of it, and that pissed her off.
Oh, and then this:
"DON'T F&%$ WITH ME FELLAS!!!!!"
Man, Faye Dunaway wasn't just chewing the scenery, she was dining out on it! That's one of the greatest unhinged moments in that movie, when Joan flips out on the Pepsi board. I love that.
Again, the Twins were not even there when most of the abuse took place and by the time they show up, Christina was already sent away to school. It would seem the problem is that Christina turned out to be as headstrong as Joan and started to show it the moment she learned to speak. The honeymoon was over and reality hits. I knew someone who was friends with Christina when they were in college and saw first hand how Christina would freak out and becomes very anxious and fearful thinking about how Joan might react even if something was out of her control (like not being make it to a theater performance because of a snow storm). I am being a bit too specific here, if she reads this, she would know it's me.
Great comparison review and commentary.
Thank you!
Additional comment : Christina & Christopher both sued the twins for their portion of Joan's estate, l believe it was. Both received $5,000.00. Soon after Christopher and Christina had a falling out that was never repaired. I believe Christopher was ADHD which made him frustrated with school and was little understood then. He married and had a family and construction company in Florida
Oh interesting, I didn't know they sued the twins. And poor Chris, not getting the proper care he should have had at the time.
Mommy Dearest walked so I'm glad my mom died could RUN!
Yes!
I loved watching the movie when i was a kid. I had it recorded on a beta tape off the tv. I knew someone who had an aunt or something that worked for Joan for a minute and confirmed the abuse. I don’t know the extent tho As a kid I assumed it was kinda like it was in the movie. I ended up finding the book at a local yard sale. The book was in very bad shape so it was hard going thru and the fact it was so different. The other children were in the book whearas movie only had Christopher and Christina Book vs movie truth is in the middle. Movies often dramatize things for effect
Great video. I agree Dunaway's performance is killer although the choking scene was a bit of a laugh. I think her next movie was The Wicked Lady of which I heard got poor reviews but I think she bounced back with 1987's Barfly. A couple of suggestions would be The Last Picture Show by Larry McMurtry and The Day of the Locust by Nathanael West. Both books were made into excellent movies imho.
Thanks!
I was just looking into The Last Picture Show! Definitely one i want to cover.
Have you covered the book Push by Saphire, and it's film adaptation Precious?
I haven't, I've heard it's a hard read so I have been avoiding it! But I'll add it to my list of future videos.
Wasn’t Joan aware of the book prior to her death?
Christina claims she began the book after the reading of the will, but others say that Joan cut Christina from the will because Christina began working on the book and Joan was aware of it. So it's hard to know the truth.
If she cut Christina from the will because of the book, that makes sense, but it doesn't explain why she cut Chris out as well.
It’s sad how Chris is essentially forgotten.
I do believe there’s some truth to the book but none of us on the outside will never know what really happened.
Christina told Larry King that the book was written from the perspective of a child, this fact is often overlooked . I have read the book and agree that the movie gives a more layered view of the dynamic between mother/daughter. Jmo
That makes sense. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for the review! I haven't read the book, but I've always wanted to. I love the movie! One thing I'd like to mention about Christina's obsession with money. Often times, parents expect their kids to look "the part". Let's say they were raised in an affluent/rich but abusive home, where it looks like the kids are spoiled. But when the kids grow up and aren't emotionally equipped to hold down a well paying job, they are still pressured to look "the part". I imagine growing up around all these other rich families who don't abuse their kids, she did feel entitled to money. It's like she was owed that money for enduring the trauma her mother put her through. Then, having to type other student's papers to make money must have been humiliating to her. Obviously I believe Christina's accounts of abuse growing up. But who knows. As Faye Dunaway has stated: only God knows the truth about what really happened between the two of them. I have a lot of thoughts on it as I saw the movie on tv as a little kid and it made me cry because I didn't understand why grown ups would let the abuse go on. I now love the movie as a camp classic!
Yeah that's very true about keeping up appearances!
Thanks for your review. 😊 I’ve seen the movie a few times and boy oh boy 😅 I never got around to reading the book. BUT both my grandniece and mother - neither were Crawford fabs as far as her movies - remembered Joan’s soap opera appearance. Both said it was like this young woman was there one day and then without missing a beat Joan Crawford - not Grand Hotel Joan but more William Castle schlocky movie Joan - appears in the same role. My grandmother tried to be nice and say she was okay. My mother - brutally honest as always - said “I think she was drunk!” 😂 And THAT was my first memory of Joan Crawford, years before I saw the movies that made her famous.
Oh wow, the fact that average viewers could even tell she was drunk is really saying something opposed to just Christina who knew what her mom was like when she drank. What an introduction lol, it's unfortunate though because she really was an amazing actor!
@@WhytheBookWinsIf you ever get an opportunity to see her in The Unknown with Lon Chaney Sr. or Grand Hotel or The Women, you’ll be getting her at the beginnings of her career. By Mildred Pierce she had the Crawford mystique down. Baby Jane - her AND Bette Davis 😂 A tour de force. When you get to Strait-Jacket and Trog you’re just in it for the camp. And oh crap. I think Diane Baker - who plays her daughter in Strait-Jacket has a slight resemblance to Christina Crawford so I imagine Joan had a blast as the mom who gets released from the asylum after chopping up her cheating hubby and his girlfriend. 😂 THAT should have been a book.
It possibly could have been hard to have been a known child of a celebrity and a young woman at that time and find a good paying job? This may be one of those situations that’s hard to look at with a modern view. I do know it was so difficult to work and go to school when I was doing it 20 years ago.
You are sooooo correct about kids having different experiences with their parents!! My husband and I will say that we are much better parents with our youngest and we were with our oldest. Not because of anything nefarious. We were just young and an experienced with our first.
Yeah true, I don't know what the school/job life balance would have been like back then.
And yeah, parents change so much jay because like you said, at the beginning they are younger and are figuring it out as they go along.
You should'n demand more explanations from Christina about the stable episode. She says big impacts to her, not for us. It's to her own psyche, mind, psychology, emotional life. She shouldn't be demanded to create more and more text and speculation about the inner emotions and consequences of her life changing moments. She's writing the book about events. It's not a day by day inner emotions and thoughts about how many days and minutes the stable episode impacted her life.
Yeah very true.
I watched the movie but I haven’t read the book.
This is one of those stories I will never read or watch, because 1) I'm a mom and 2) I also suffer from childhood trauma. I cannot conceive this unacceptable level of abuse. I know about this story for years and all the surrounding drama. I was very curious to listen to your analysis. Some of us won't have the courage to do it. It feels too close to home. Congratulations on that. :) Putting myself on Christina's shoes, you do display some odd behaviours when you're a victim of childhood trauma. You may become flirtatious and an anxious people-pleaser. It's a sign that you weren't loved nor protected at home. You may also dissociate from the events that happened (as in the sexual assault scene) and/or develop an avoidant attachment style. The fact that Christine comes back and forward may indicate some memory fog or confusion, which is quite typical in many victims. You have to try to remember things as clearly as possible. And you're not able to move on and become independent because your caregivers were constantly ensuring themselves you would never be able to fly with your own wings. It's their goal. At the same time, you still crave for their love and attention. And you finally become "infected" by the caregivers "disease". You may not be narcissistic but you still display some of those traits, such as taking revenge. Joan Crawford was hurtful until the very end. Christine's book is only a revenge mechanism against her dead mother. For Christine to succeed in life and with her book she needed to heal first. That is the saddest part. She overcame nothing in the end. She just responded in her own toxic way, allowing the controversy to happen. Maybe one day "Glad My Mother Died" will become a movie. Then, you can compare both book and movie and add this one as an example of what happens when people don't heal. Keep up your excellent work!
Thank you so much for sharing! And yeah people want the "perfect victim" who has a perfect recollection of things but that just doesn't exists.
And so true about McCurdy's book! I wish I would have thought to reference that one in this video.
You referenced 3 books to us. At least 2 were turned into movies. Don’t “blame” yourself. McCurdy’s book is not yet a movie. You’re still in time. 😉
i love this movie, it's my favorite guilty pleasure. Fay Dunaway's performance was incredible
She's amazing in this!
It's interesting to hear you say that the movie humanizes Joan cause I've heard the complete opposite. Like from what others have said, it made her out to be this inhuman monster with the no hire hangers scene, that creepy scene where she's lotioning her elbows after Christina discovers her dolls gone and how she kinda went demonic when cutting Christina's hair which from what I heard wasn't in the book and also when she had that physical brawl with Christina after Christina embarrasses her during her interview. I just find it kinda interesting how some seem to say the movie made Joan out to be worse than she was and others say the book is the one that makes her out to be worse than she was.
Yeah the book doesn't have the haircut scene, but it does have the scene when she attacks Christina and Christina claims Joan would have killed her had someone not pulled her off.
But yeah, others may have a different takeaway but i still think the movie was more well rounded though it is still over the top in many ways.
"Why did you adopt me?"
That's interesting. It didn't bother me that she complained about money. She was abused and had to raise herself emotionally. I don't think she had a sense of money just because she became of age. It's confusing but it didn't stand out for me. She wasn't an experienced writer and it was kind of jumbled together. Enjoyed hearing your take.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! You make a good point. Glad you liked my video!
MILDRED PLACE!!!! Let's GO!!!!! Are you going to be doing the movie or the miniseries???
I'm planning on releasing that video the end of November! My main video will be on the Crawford movie but I might do a follow up video sharing my thoughts on the show.
@@WhytheBookWins I think it would be interesting to compare both adaptations to the book, particularly as the miniseries is actually more loyal to the original book, whereas as the 1945 film was made more of a film noir melodrama with a murder at the center of it, which did not happen in the book at all.
Greetings, great video. I have read the book and watched the movie. Yes, many oeople cane to JCs defense but others confirmed the above. I knew soneone who was abused by both parents. Her older sister was able to move sooner to get away from the abuse. The parents were bat shit crazy but you would not know it when they performed at festivals, the family was musical and they played traditional Newfoundland music. The situation was just bizarre. Love your work.❤❤
So horrible, it reminds me of the part in Mommie Dearst when they are on the radio talking about their Christmas traditions and you would never have guessed what was going on.
Have you compared sybil? Because imo, the book is so much better.
I saw the movie years ago but have never read the book.
Good insight
Thank you
I think hearing the story today, the events are barely shocking. Sounds like typical antagonism from an abusive parent to me. I think it was rushed to publishing and needed workshopped into a narrative with purpose instead of a litany of events. Britney Spears's memoir is the same way. Interesting read but just a series of things that happened.
I like that she hasn't healed from her childhood abuse. I felt a soccer punch in the stomach when she was excluded from the will. There are certain elements that remind me of my mom. I liked the scene when there was a ring under something and she moved it aside acting like she had to do everything.
Joan Crawford cut the older ones out of the will. I believe the accounts are true
I suppose it's from hymen checking and her being young, I'm pretty sure she was sa'd and back then it was a lot harder to gauge and admit
I do enjoy the movies campiness. I am not laughing at the abuse just the over the top way Faye Dunaway deliver some of lines like in front of a reporter . It’s a fun movie to mock but still sad nobody came and made a more serious movie. I do come out feeling bad for Cristina so it’s not all camp or bad though. That’s crazy that she pulled out of school over the Christmas card. I also think the truth is in the middle or it’s often hard to know
Yeah same, the movie (thanks to Dunaway) is so entertaining on one hand while also being scary at times.
Why were the twins never mentioned in book or movie is it because the twins would have gone after Christine for defamation? The one thing that got me was how she didn't like that she was only allowed to keep 1 birthday present and the rest were donated to underprivileged children that's the only part of the movie that I was like why is she so spoiled why not give the presents to underprivileged kids you got a house full of toys and she got mad because she had to give up her toys on her birthday I don't know you know I really don't know cuz I've never been rich...lol..but she was given one heak of a bithday party..if that was even true or just put in the movie idk.Thank you I love your channel 😊
Yeah i agree, donating you many toys seems like a nice thing to do! And yeah, she got lavish birthday parties, but in the book she says she felt lonely because the people and kids invited tended to be people she didn't even know.
And thank you! 😊
I think some of it was learned behavior. Joan was also quite entitled. But also she may have been somewhat resentful of the show put on by her mother. Everyone sees her give her daughter all of these presents making her seem so generous and loving. Then, seemingly without discussing it with Christina, Joan tells her she can’t keep them (and even the giving the toys to charity was more PR for Joan). Christina was a little kid and little kids are inherently selfish and entitled because THEIR world revolves around them. They don’t know better yet. Joan should have helped her daughter understand. I don’t hold that against her.
What I don’t get is if Joan Crawford is that why go through so much to adopt if you’re going to act all wicked stepmother on her? Did Joan Crawford have a psychological imbalance?
I guess she liked the idea of being a mother, but not fully realizing the toll it would have on her? And I'm not sure if she had an imbalance.
Plenty of people want children cause they like the idea of parenthood but get irate at the fact that their kids are their own people. My aunt has a mother who is frequently passive aggressive and withholds affection to feel like she’s winning. The idea of motherhood to her is having a child who obeys everything and if that’s not how it goes it’s the kid being defective. I think that was Joan’s MO with Christina.
@@Nightman221k one thing about that is that just because you want kids, doesn’t mean it works to just wing it. I feel Joan should have done her homework. I definitely have to wonder what her own mother was like cuz mothers tend to take after their own mother and then to snub her in the will? She should have at least had the decency to state why. I don’t think she loved her two oldest because she wouldn’t have cut them out of the will if she had
I would say most people with money help out their kids. I heard Joan didn't want to give them anything. I can understand Christina's POV. All the abuse she suffered, later on in life does kind of make you feel entitled and RESENTFUL! Like at least the very wealthy parent could kind of make up for it by helping you more or giving you what other wealthy parents give their kids, you have to think... surely she saw that all around her, those rich kids having the support and monetary from their wealthy parents, so that also makes you feel bad about everything, never really feeling loved. It's not her fault. She lived a certain lifestyle that was extravagant, and then the wealthy parent doesn't want to support that lifestyle anymore. That doesn't make sense to me as a parent.
As a mom, I wouldn't deprive my kids of things and want them to have more than I did. Her brother's statement says a lot.
Very true! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
@WhytheBookWins Looking forward to Baby Jane, lol. When you watch that, can I recommend watching "Feud" Season 1. Jessica Lange plays Joan and Susan Sarandon plays Betty, they were fabulous and it all takes place during the time they filmed the movie!
Christina isn’t perfect? What a shock! She was entitled and annoying and I guess that makes her less of a sympathetic character. Maybe she saw her mother help others with money and the fact that her mother wouldn’t give her money made her feel inferior. Maybe Joan showed love through money. So, if your mother won’t help you financially, maybe it makes you feel unloved and brings up terrible emotions. I have no idea if that is what happened, but it is possible that there is a deeper reason why she wanted financial help as a young adult.
Child abuse is a one-sided crime. This is why I do NOT tell anyone about my childhood abuse. It just makes you a target of more judgment. I recommend that no one ever speak of their abuse outside of therapy. People don’t deserve to know and you don’t deserve the judgment.
Yeah it takes a lot of courage to open up about this, and then especially to write a book and really open yourself up to scrutiny. But I'm glad she shared her story and was one of the first to really being awareness to child abuse in this way.
Can we please get fight club? It’s okay. People have been breaking rule one for years 😂
I can't believe I haven't done that yet since it is so iconic! I will make it a goal to cover it next year!
Honestly? I don’t blame Christina one bit. If I had a famous parent (especially a rich one that cut me out), I would have dragged them for filth too. Maybe that’s wicked, but oh well 🤷♂️ Good video! I had never gotten around to reading the book, but the movie is definitely a guilty pleasure.
I have no interest in reading the book, but have seen the movie so i can only speak to that. I have no doubt that joan was problematic, but i never found the abuse portrayed in the movie particularly harsh, which probably says a lot about my childhood. Christina however comes across as spoiled and bratty. I think that strapping a kid in bed was fairly common at one time as a treatment for sleep walking or falling out of bed. When the picture of dana andrews brother popped up on screen, i totally said, "he could play dana andrews." We'll never no the full story, etc., but ill remain team Joan.
Oh wow I need to look up about strapping kids in bed-that seems so horrible but I guess back then old school parenting methods could be pretty wild by todays standards.
And yeah, it's impossible to know the complete truth. Thanks for commenting and sharing your thoughts!
You didn't find Joan cutting up Christina's hair, feeding her rotting meat, the entire "no hire hangers" scene or when she tried to choke Christina out particularly harsh? I'm truly sorry for what you had to endure in your childhood if you had it worse than that.
Because so many events are impossible to verify, because of the complexities in psychology and parenting, this feels like an impossible topic to tackle. Brava for giving it a thoughtful effort, but this is a rough one.
I agree The Glass Castle was on a different plane, that the lack of judgment or bitterness on the author’s part is what separates it from Christina Crawford’s obvious hatchet job. And yeah, I’m guessing she wishes she waited til she wasn’t so raw, but if she was going for the money, maybe not.
I have never read Mommy Dearest, but if the movie gave a more balanced look into Joan’s side? Wow. Hard to imagine it was worse in the book.
Yeah it's definitely complicated! But yeah, Joan comes across very one dimensional in the book.
Considering the circumstances that this was Christina‘s first book, and it was coming from a place of pain, I get it.
I too, am working on a memoir, and let me tell you one of my biggest concerns is how it will be received.🤔
Yeah putting something so personal out into the world takes a lot of courage!
From what I've read from people who knew Joan well, she was strict with her kids. She disciplined them. But she was not abusive. She came from nothing. Dirt poor. She wasn't born with a silver spoon in her mouth. She didn't want her kids to be spoiled, entitled brats and wanted them to be grateful for what they had. And apparently, Christina was entitled and saw the discipline as abuse. I'm only speaking from what I've read. Some insist Christina is flat out lying about her mother. Now those people could only be defending Joan's image. Who knows for sure? I don't think we're ever gonna know what really happened between those two.
The book has a lot of factual inaccuracies, like Joan got the children legally and Christina even said the twins weren’t biologically related (they sued her for this and won in court!). I would just look at the credibility or the source because Christina’s been a proven liar multiple times (for instance, in the book she tries to make Joan out to be a racist because she supposedly didn’t allow Christina to invite her black friend to the birthday party but home movies of that party has since surfaced and the black child was not only in attendance, but seated next to Christina the entire time). Even the thing about Christopher being strapped into bed being horrible was something the doctor recommended because he slept walked at night and they were afraid he’d harm himself. Again, I’d just take those things and the source into consideration!! (Also you mentioned the cutting of the rose bush and Christina said in an interview on YT that that never happened)
In the book she says she threw a fit until Joan let her friend come to the party so that would explain why she is in the photo.
And in the book also says Chris was strapped into bed too prevent sleep walking. I don't remember whether she said a doctor advised it though.
And in the book we know all of the kids were adopted, sorry if I made it seem like the twins were Joan's biologically.
I just don’t find any of this abuse.
Maybe harsher treatment. But not abuse. Christina has just always seemed spoiled to me.
Thanks for sharing your perspective! I agree she came across as entitled/spoiled at times, but I also do think she was abused by Crawford.
Geez I hope you don’t have kids….
I believe it was true. From hearing a story my mama told my daddy. My great-grandfather a preacher man. My great grandparents took my mom for ice cream cone. The ice cream melted on her pretty dress. My great grandmother upset went and cut my mom pretty long dress for that. When my grandmother died when my mama was just a teenager. My so called grandfather give the kids to my grandmother family. My mama and her baby went to one of the aunts. She made my aunt sleep in a box. When my mama got in trouble she whipped her with dog chains. Lucky my uncle came and got the girls to go live with him. Back then nobody talked abused that was life to them.
Christina strikes me as insincere. I know people cope with their traumatic past in their own ways but everything she says just puts up a red flag in my head. Why is it every few years she re-releases the book with sudden new material? Why is it she goes to releases of the film and allows drag queens to chase her with wire hangers? I know real abuse. I've been truly abused. And I would never poke fun at it in that way. Something about her whole trajectory is off and I'm not buying what she's selling
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I'm sorry to hear you also have experienced abuse.
Like you said, everyone deals with trauma differently. I am close to someone who was abused growing up and as the decades have passed he will make jokes about it in a dark humor kind of way. So Christina might not act in a way that makes sense all of the time, but I don't see that as proof she isn't telling the truth.