Why overseas Vietnamese are still speaking 20th-century Vietnamese
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I'm a Vietnamese linguistics student in the UK and I cannot describe to you how much joy your content is bringing me. It is such a marker of identity to hear genuine linguistic terms and phenomena being totally applicable to Vietnamese. Please keep it up!!! ❤
Thanks to overseas Vietnamese preserving our traditional cultures and heritages those forgotten or disappeared at home
"Why overseas Vietnamese are still speaking 20th-century Vietnamese"
It's a very interesting theme.
Annie's lessons with the historical details are just amazing. As an intermediate Vietnamese speaker, I still learn so much from her simple but effective videos.
The Chinese characters for Philippines is 菲律賓 or 菲律宾. What you wrote means “Fly London (Phi Luân Đôn)” which is great if you’re looking for tickets to Heathrow :)
Don't be picky. See my comment of the young vietnamese Counsel in GZ. This is not a person fluent in Chinese. But Vietnamese (different versions of Vietnamese)
this topic is VERY interesting topic to me, being overseas myself
1. Another example of an old Sino-Vietnamese word that has become obsolete except in Viet Kieu population is "phi trường" for airport. My young cousin laughed when I used this word, she said she understood it but I sound like an old person, now the more Vietnamized word is "sân bay"
2. "người Mễ" is probably only understood by Viet Kieu living in the US, not anywhere else. This is because when the Vietnamese refugees settled in the US, the vast majority settled in California, Texas, Louisiana due to similar tropical weather and jobs (fishermen) similar to coastal Vietnam, all of which are near the Mexico border
3. Due to the Vietnamization of vocabulary, I wonder if there is a shift away from French-Vietnamese words similar to the shift away from Sino-Vietnamese words. My mom was born in the 1950s while the French were still there, had to learn some French and probably passed down some vocab to me. For example I think "bôm" (from French pomme) and "da ua" (from French yaourt) have fallen out of favor versus "táo" and "sữa chua". I'm not entirely sure on this however.
If you go to a supermarket here in the South, apples and yogurt are labeled as ‘táo’ and ‘sữa chua’. But ‘bôm’ and ‘sữa chua’ are still widely used in spoken language. My 20-month son says ‘da ua’. :) Thank you for your interesting comment!
Also the names of the White House and the Pentagon are used differently between overseas Vietnamese and mainland Vietnamese. While the former still use toà Bạch Ốc and Ngũ Giác Đài, the latter now use Nhà Trắng and Lầu Năm Góc instead. On the other hand, some old terms are replaced by Sino-Vietnamese words as well. Examples are nhà băng -> ngân hàng (as stated in the video), giấy thông hành -> hộ chiếu, xe lửa -> tàu hoả, etc.
The phenomenon of favoring native vocabulary over Sino-Vietnamese may also has to do with the fact that Vietnamese students nowadays don't have to learn Chinese characters anymore, so their knowledge of building compound words from Sino-Vietnamese components is limited. Indeed some components are still very commonly used and understood, more arbitrary terms are coined using native Vietnamese components instead.
I think the Vietnamization process occurs more frequently with Sino-Vietnamese words, as French entered Vietnamese much later and on more superficial level. French words were usually borrowed for things/concepts not existing in Vietnam before, such as mechanical tools (bu lông, ốc vít, cờ lê, etc.), Western food items (phô mai/pho mát, bơ, kem, etc.), which are all still used today.
This is common with every immigrant community. I was watching a vlog from some Japanese Americans who moved back to Japan and they discussed how their vocab was different from the one that was used in Japan now.
Another example is that I've always used and the people around me have always used "my trang" for white people while in Vietnam, they used the more political correct term "nguoi tay" or westerners
I was born and raised in Saigon for 23 years and we still use the word “Pom” for táo and “Da-ua” for yogurt in my circle 😊
You are wrong about Sân Bay. Sân bay is an old Vietnamese word. The new Vietnamese word is nhà ga tàu bay or cảng hàng không which sounds very weird.
i loved your video. I'm learning Viet language as a 55 year old that went to America at 5 years old. My older siblings probably don't know as much as what you are teaching. My sister-in-law which only had 2nd grade courses in Vietnam understood all the differences in variation of spoken words I was sharing from your video.
finally found a place where this topic is discussed.This is i think one of the most important things every abroad born vietnamese should know i.e. why is there so much of a dialectal difference and what are the differences . I'm a vietnamese born in France and the video is for me very enlightening
This is an over generalization and I find many examples given to be incorrect. Many of the terms given as "modern" were used long before 1975. There is a difference between what is considered street language/popular language and polite language, for example: she said that việt kiều say "đi đái" (to piss). People have been using the more polite terms "đi vệ sinh", "đi tiểu" (to relieve oneself) long before 1975. The speaker seems to imply that overseas Vietnamese use street language/popular language and unaware of polite language. Many Vietnamese grew up overseas and use very basic Vietnamese, but you can't over generalize and say that all overseas Vietnamese speak like this. It is true that language have changed in the last few decades, but in many cases the change is not always in the right direction. I left Vietnam when I was 10, but I consider myself well-read and I find that even in Vietnamese newspapers and on TV, people use the language incorrectly on a wide scale. Many people can't tell the difference between a verb or a noun or an adjective. For example, I often see "bị kỷ luật" (being punished/being disciplined, where the term "kỷ luật" in Vietnamese is a noun (Vietnamese "kỷ luật" doesn't carry double meaning as in English where "discipline" can be a noun or a verb, depending on the context), where correctly it should be a verb: "bị phạt". I refuse to use language in such a way.
Thank you for stating this - I agree completely. To compare informal vs formal speech and characterizing it as Viet Kieu vs in country is a rather crass interpretation of her talking to her Viet Kieu students. It diminishes the intelligence and deep history of all overseas Vietnamese.
Thank you Annie, I like very much your explanations and everything I learn with you. I may go to Sài Gòn next year and I'd like to take lessons with you. My son lives in HCMC since 2014, so, Việt Nam is now in my heart.
Thank you SO SO much for your videos!!!!! They contain SO much important and interesting content. There is no other channel, to the best of my knowledge, which has that in that good quality!!!
The "băng" in nhà băng actually borrowed the pronunciation from the way the word bank is being said in French (the French word for bank is "banc") not borrowed from the English word or pronunciation of "bank."
Thanks for the vid, very interesting. It reminds me of an interview of a professor on the "NYTN" TH-cam channel. The host interviewed a professor, whose father or grandfather immigrated to the USA from Italy. The professor spoke an "older" version of Italian with his grandpa. (His grandpa migrated to the US from Italy in the late 1800s or early 1900s.)
When the professor visited Italy as a young man in the late 70s, he spoke Italian but his immediate relatives couldn't understand him. They told him that he could go to the town plaza to talk with the old men there. Sure enough, the old men understood his "older version" of Italian.
I miss the word “nhà thương”, oh its lovely
Does “nhà thương” mean nhà cho người bị thương or does it mean house with love? It is the latter, isn’t it?
I’m a Viet kieu self learning Vietnamese. The challenge is when I’m speaking with people from Vietnam they’ll often not understand me. I never understood why becaus when I’m speaking with fellow Viet kieu adults they understand me just fine. But now I realized there are words I use day to day that’s outdated and not something peolle in Vietnam today are used to hearing. I’m trying I really am
Have faith and keep learning bro.
Since languages are always changing no matter what kind.
Today in the globalization age and with the help of internet, there are more and more words are born daily and weekly in the Vietnamese language. Even to the level that the young people can understand each other but when try to speak to their elders in the family who are not fond of using social media, they wouldn’t understand their young (grand)children 😅.
I have experienced and observed this myself for a few past years.
Language evolves over time, if you don’t live in that society your Vietnamese are most likely outdated.😂
Do not think of it as outdated. the language evolved. it's like French and Spanish. The countries are next to each other. The words are roughly the same. But both languages have evolved over the centuries to the different influences.
@@HoaXinh77 Yes, languages evolve over time but these living in overseas are not affected as they are still using the old fashioned language the parents and grandparents taught them. For example, French language used in Quebec in Canada is hundreds of years old as they still use the old fashioned words when their great grandparents brought to Canada while French language in France has changed a great deal in the past 300 years.
@@icebaby6714 you understand why it's happeningt? Like French in France is evolving because of all the foreigners living in France, vs Québécois isn't influence as much by other groups. Older VK speak Viet the same. When I meet other VK outside of the US is varies from country to country.
I haven’t watched this yet, but I remember I found it so interesting because I was talking to a native Vietnamese speaker in my town and she didn’t know what a "sơ mi" was. I’ll need to watch this later, but I wonder how exactly that word flew under her radar
This is a topic dear to my heart. As I am a lot older than my Vietnamese friends I try and speak my age and use the old words. I am currently finishing "Speak Vietnamese" by Nguyen-Dinh-Hoa (Professor of English, University of Saigon) published in 1966. This was the book that the GIs used to learn Vietnamese and it has lots of period gems in it. My favourite is "nhà dây thép" for post office. I also learned Vietnamese from an Australian textbook from the 1980s and it uses words like "hãng".
Overseas Vietnamese vernacular is but a reflection of linguistic variations as well as social stratifications of the individual speakers. In formal literacy, those words “ngân hàng,” “bệnh viện,” “văn phòng,” “công ty” had already existed in the South (but with hyphenation as complex nouns like “ngân-hàng,” or with alternative spelling such as “bịnh-viện”). The spoken language upon separation will always stay static in core vocabulary, while that at home at home will continue to evolve. Take, "soulier" - a 16th C word no longer exists in France, but is still being used actively in Québec and by some Vietnamese French speakers - parce que c'est un mot ancré dans le subconscient...
This is me. I left when I was 8. Now at 50, I have to watch this video to update my vocabulary.
That makes perfect sense to abandon the "Chinese" versions of place names, which makes me all the more curious why VNese has stuck with the "Chinese" version of Spain - 西班牙. The "西" is pronounced like English "she" so it kinda sorta works in Chinese for "España", but totally not in VNese as "Tây Ban Nha". And yet that name has stuck (at least for now). Maybe we should just start using Sĩ Ban Nha" and see if it catches on.
Very interesting video. 😊👍
I loved it, thanks dear. 🤗♥️
The word"giấy thông hành " changed to "hộ chiếu".
I use a mix of these terms when speaking with my parents so I think they may have left in the midst of the Vietnamization process. That being said though, I really do like some of these Sino-Vietnamese terms because they sound rather pleasing to the ears. Being người hải ngoại, I don't get a lot of opportunities to learn Vietnamese so all of these online resources are invaluable.
Interesting. Thank you for pointing those things out. The good news is both groups can generally understand each other despite the differences.
I’ve actually never knew that, I just thought it was because of how different areas in vietnam just says things differently. Thinking of it retrospectively, I do notice when i was young we used to call Chinese TV shows as phim tau (i haven’t used that term for a decade now!). Btw, i’m a viet kieu.
What an interesting topic. I didn’t realize the linguistic changes in such a short period. It’s almost another dialect. Thank you for the lesson! 👍🏽🙏🏼❤️
Thank you for capturing this aspect of the language! Just like a time capsule.
But WHY Did millions fled AFTER the war ended? Too bad, that is not discussed, because there was no reconciliation, collapse of the economy. collapse of culture, book burning, personal processions, houses, businesses simply taken by the new state. Tens of thousands died at sea and on make shift refugee islands fleeing Vietnam. Must be very bad, to risk ones family life as such.
Another thing is that, like many other languages, Vietnamese also makes a functional distinction between "astronaut" and "cosmonaut" : while the old, archaic term was "phi hành gia", the term has since switched to "nhà du hành vũ trụ".
Such a hilarious combination of pure Vietnamese word “nhà” and a bunch-of Sino-Vietnamese words “du hành”, “vũ trụ”.
I found that similarities between Chinese and Vietnamese are stronger than that between Chinese and Korean or Japanese. For example, toilet "nha ve sinh", ve sinh means 卫生/hygiene, and in Chinese toilet is "卫生间", similar to "ve sinh nha". In Japanese and Korean, toilets are sometimes written as "化粧室", which is different.
Very interesting. Historical context. My first vietnamese friends where "boat people" in Germany in the early 1980th
I believe the old vietnamese word for bank (nha bang) comes from french, as many vietnamese words come from the french language because of the former french colonization of Vietnam.
yes banque
I think another topic that would go nicely with this video is the old 1954 Northern Vietnamese dialect. It and the modern Northern dialect sound drastically different from each other
As someone who speaks this accent living in the North, people don't know where I'm from. I would really like to see a video like this
That’s kinda hard as a topic since you have to find 2 individuals who speak each 😅
@@thatvietguyonline I think the people who speak with this accent mostly live in Hố Nai
@@guitarem100If you moved overseas they’d know. And that accent sounds way better than the modern dropped out of high school wannabe gangster modern accent.
i always wondered why recent Vietnamese immigrants look and laugh at me when i use my Vietnamese which i taught was pretty good turns out I was speaking like a senior citizen from old drama series lol
Loving your content!
It’s a very interesting topic for sure and to understand the perspectives of someone from mainland Vietnam.
As a Vietnamese from the Australian diaspora community, I definitely could relate to many of the words used as an example. I, myself, have used pretty much all of those words but with that being said, I don’t think that the list of words was a fair enough comparison. The reasoning behind that is because throughout my whole life studying and working with the Vietnamese community in Australia, I have used and heard both variations of each word you used. Not just me but older members have also used these terms and would use them interchangeably depending on the situation. I believe this is more of a colloquial vs formal speech comparison for us. As for the whole đi đái thing, it is definitely funny but I think it is more him being super casual rather than us not using the more formal đi tiểu or đi (nhà) vệ sinh. I can confirm that đi cầu tiêu to us is like a standard modern day toilet though. Growing up, I always wondered why a toilet was referred to as a “bridge” but then understood when I visited the countryside of Vietnam with my family 🤣
The other thing I do agree with is that we would never use the “Châu Âu” grammar; like you said, definitely “Âu Châu” for us. To my unfamiliar ears, Châu coming first sounds a bit weird but I could understand it if someone said it in a sentence. I would just assume they got their words mixed up hahaha
I feel like a better comparison of terminology would be of words that we would never use and potential told to not use growing up. Of course, that would be a focus on words the diaspora community would not use; not what mainlanders wouldn’t use.
Here are a few examples (diaspora Vietnamese on the left and mainland on the right):
- giận/bực mình/tức giận etc. Vs bức súc
- ghi danh vs đăng ký (though some people have started to use đăng ký as well)
- cảnh sát vs công an
- tờ khai gia đình/sổ gia đình vs sổ hộ khẩu
- trở ngại vs sự cố
- thăm viếng vs thăm quan
- cứu hỏa vs chữa cháy
- Phi cảng vs cửa khẩu
- xuất cảng vs xuất khẩu
- nhập cảng vs nhập khẩu
- bất ngờ vs đột xuất
- sông ca vs ca đôi
- giỏi/xuất sắc vs kiệt suất
- phi thuyền vs tàu vũ trụ
- xe du lịch vs xe con
- bảo đảm vs đảm bảo
Just a few examples. Now, like I said, it does not mean that mainlanders can’t or don’t use the terms we use but rather the examples I gave are mainlander words that we definitely do not use or use if we’ve been influenced. Words like sự cố and bức súc are definitely not used here.
Countries are funny imo. Yeah, we do use words like Úc Châu/Úc Đại Lợi rather than just saying Australia in a Vietnamese accent but I noticed that city names are generally pronounced as the English/French word but with a Vietnamese accent. So Pari for Paris, “lanh-đình” for London, “meo-bình” for Melbourne, “ca-li” for California, “tô-ky-ô” for Tokyo even though Tokyo is 東京 so should be đông kinh etc. 😅
You shared that when you spoke to your family in the US that you struggled to understand some words she spoke. I would also would like to share my experiences with my aunt in Vietnam. Till this day, I still struggle to understand her speech and we do our best to compromise… well more like she compromise for me. It is just easier for her since she lived during the time the 20th century southern dialect was used so could recall certain terminologies used from that time for me to understand. Though it does involve me to stop her constantly asking “wait… what’s that?” 😅
I appreciate the content BUT there needs to be a large disclaimer that A LOT of the "newer" words in fact aren't words that Viet Kieu don't know/use. But rather that they do use them they just have different subtle context and meanings.
I'm a first generation born Viet and I recognised almost all of these words despite not being actively exposed to the language since becoming an adult. Showing that even two decades ago we already used these terms.
Informality isn't lost upon users of the language in Viet Kieu. For example in the early nineties no one would recognise Tieu over dai. There's just context to be had. It's pee/urinate.
On top of that I'd argue this stance that Vietnamese for many of your examples being Vietnameseified is in fact just false. The french loan words are rooted in Vietnamese since influencing the writing style. So to suddenly replace one loan word with another language's isn't somehow more Vietnamese unless you're deliberately implying that Vietnamese from prior years is not just outdated but lesser.
For example in French. Changing the word to Parking (with a French accent) is not Frenchifying the language over stationnement. I'd argue it's the opposite. Modernisation sure. But not making it truer to its origins by any means.
It may be older but it doesn't make it any less true or laughable as you imply as if we're country hillbillies.
It's a stance Metropolitan french speakers take against Quebecois/Cajun/Islander French that's is ultimately rude and disrespectful while also rather ludicrous now that the language is less true to its origins than it used to be. Much like Vietnamese.
The fact alone that you didn't discern that in Australia hang means factory/laborious business and cong Ty means company shows that perhaps you were not the appropriate person to be discerning the dialects of those overseas.
Even ignoring the Anglicisation of Vietnamese.
Fascinating! I wonder if this is the reason why when I learn a Vietnamese word on my own, but then my in-laws (who left Vietnamese after the war) say they haven't heard that or tell me it's a totally different word.
It could be one of the reasons! But maybe also because we have several different words and phrases to describe one thing/concept.
Incredible lesson! I've always wondered about some of this talking with Viet Kieu here in the US.
I accidentally knew Tân Tây Lan as New Zealand by watching a VNCH parade video when the New Zealand force's square was marching. I could not believe my ear at first that New Zealand is also called Tân Tây Lan like Cantonese until I repeat to listen to it.
Tân in front position is Viet-Chinese for "new", tây means "West" and land probably refers to the English word "land" (as in "Thái Lan"). So it is "New Westland".
I’ve been using this Vietnamese learning textbook from the early 70s and they kept talking about drinking la-ve and it took me a while to figure out what that meant.
Bia!
This is very interesting. I wouldn't say that all Viet Kieu words are Chinese origin. For instance, for bathroom words, di dai and di ia would appear to be more traditional Vietnamese than di tieu and di dai tien (tieu is xiao in mandarin as in 小便, dai is da in mandarin, for dai tien, both words are directly taken from chinese- da bian 大便). Even di ve sinh is from chinese- wei sheng 卫生 where as di toilet is Anglo/French. Television is tivi (coming from TV in English) in Viet Kieu but truyen hinh in modern Vietnam. I know truyen is 傳 in Chinese. So there is a de-Englishing and de-Frenching which is understandable of course but it's being replaced by a Sinicizing. Which to my palate is actually worse.
You're right, it would seem that Northern dialect is changing the Southern dialect, which is what Viet Kieu overwhelmingly speak. Television broadcasts, prestige, and politeifying [ just made up that word :-) ] will do that. To my ear, Vietnamese as spoken in Vietnam now doesn't feel as direct or open as it was before. Just call it preference but some things are better the way they were before. Lol
đái has nothing to do with 大
Đại as in Đại tiện. Not đái @@thevannmann
It is well understood that language evolves with time. It reflects culture, art and values of a society and people live in it.
I am just an ordinary Viet kieu with limited knowledge about language. In my humble opinion, Vietnamese language seems to head towards direction of self stripping of its beauty, finesse, romance, and poetry.
In recent years, people felt in love with old songs, collectively called “nhạc bolero”. I wonder if it is because of their beautiful melodies and romantic lyrics. Or is it because they evoke deep senses of longing for long gone grace and sincerity? Perhaps it is both?!
The reason Vietnamese don't call Chinese as tau (boat people) to insult Chinese anymore because themselves be came refugee boat people after 1975.
That makes no sense. Overseas Viet people (who were boat people & descendants) are the ones /still/ using "người Tàu", it's the mainland Vietnamese who use "người Trung"
I picked up some Vietnamese mainly by ear from friends when I was a child and teen in the late 80s-early 90. I never learned to write, but I can have simple conversations. All of my friends' parents were 1975 refugees or came to the US in the early 80s. I learned most of the words you mentioned. Another is calling Cambodian people nguoi Mien. Apologies if this is politically incorrect. If someone could let me know if it's okay to say this or not, I'd appreciate it. Also, I learned to call English tieng My instead of tieng Anh. Once, I asked someone a question about noodles called bún tàu. I was wondering if this meant they were Chinese noodles or why they were called that. I was told Tàu is kind of offensive. I didn't realize.
Chào chị Fatima, yes, "người Miên" is now considered politically incorrect. We say "người Khmer" instead.
@@LearnVietnameseWithAnnie Thank you!
My family uses nguoi cam bot for Cambodian. Not sure if it's bc there's a huge population of Cambodians where I grew up or if that's the correct back then. This video is such an eye opener for me as I learn Vietnamese from both refugee parents that came to the States in their early twenties and limited education due to the ongoing war.
@@EJL1208 hi there, the word “Cam Bốt/Bót” is verbal-translated from the word Cambodge (French word for Cambodia)
so basically “người Cam Bốt” = Cambodian but their ethnicity is still “Khmer” as người Việt ethnicity is “Kinh”.
Theirs is still a large group of Khmer people born and living in the South of Vietnam for centuries due to historical, geographical, political factors, now they are Vietnamese with Khmer heritage.
Nowadays, if you’re talking to someone from VN, if the mention “người Campuchia” is referring as Kampuchea/Cambodian people, and “người Khmer” = Vietnamese with Khmer ethnicity.
Never stop learning, cheers 🍻
@@thatvietguyonline South vn used to belong to khmer people, even now the khmer said that our viet people invaded their land and they wanted phu quoc island back.
This is very interesting, and makes a lot of sense. I'm looking forward to my wifes reaction when she comes to New York with me and speaks modern Saigon Vietnamese with Viet Kieu
My wife just told me that they still use Tàu here in Saigon. She said for example, the meal we ate yesterday in bình tân district was called Hủ tiếu tàu.
And then there are English words that have entered the Việt Kiều vocabulary. I was eating with a Việt Kiều friend and I asked for the check with “Tính tiền!” He said he’d never heard that, as his family always says “Check a!”
so the boat people in Hongkong films of 80s and 90s were actually ethnic Chinese from Vietnam..
署 shu (han viet = So) is office in Chinese, but nowaday is 公司 Gongsi (Cong ty)
Great lesson today. I use the Viet Kieu words. :D
Thank you! I had read that "tàu" means also Chinese now I know why this word was used. And I think this also explains why the word for "water", "nước" also means "country". Because every country (except Cambodia and Laos) had to be reached by water. -- In the historic center of Düsseldorf there is a VN restaurant named "Á Châu". -- "Bệnh viện" also used to be called "bịnh viện", but that pronunciation is deemed outdated today.
I would say "nước" is just the short form of "đất nước" which literally means land and water, so basically a territory.
I’m việt kiều I never say nhà băng and nhà thương.
Phi Châu or Châu Phi is the same
people say forward and backward all the time
appreciate your videos... thank you < 3!!!
My teacher used an even older word for toilet, she said "nhà xí"!
Thanks for the video. I’m going to share it with my mom who emigrated from Vietnam in the early 70s and thinks modern Vietnamese is wrong, that the southern dialect is superior as she associated the northern with Communists/Communism (central accent, I think she said was pretty - or was it the people?), and compound all this with the fact she was born and raised in Cambodia, so her own accent and possibly vocabulary are already a little different from other Viet Kieu!
Hi, great information and very informative! It's true that Vietnamization of the language has led to abandonment of many Sino-Vietnamese words. However, you are incorrect about some things. "Nhà băng" is derived from French ("banque"), not English. Other terms that you suggest are not used by Viet Kieu, such as "đi toilet" or "nhà vệ sinh", are in fact used by the Viet kieu, alongside the more informal terms "đi đái" and "cầu tiêu". In this context, it would be more correct to say that there is a greater diversity of terms used among the Viet kieu. In contrast, in Viet Nam, the language has converged to a few common terms. It seems your beliefs about Viet kieu terms are partially informed by your experience with younger Vietnamese speakers, who of course learn Vietnamese in the informal context of the home. They are not representative of the larger Viet kieu diaspora.
love your videos!
I was born in Vietnam but have been in the States for years and I can attest to the countries name being so different. I had no clue where they were referring to on the Vietnamese language ratio. For the most part, the names like you said are just the English word with a Vietnamese accent, although some select few countries still retain their Chinese transliteration (Mỹ, Anh, Nhật Bản, etc.)
Việt kiều, especially those here in the States, also refer to languages quite differently. I remember my aunt saying "Con học tiếng Mỹ chứ đừng học tiếng Anh", that was not confusing at all. I think in "current" Vietnamese tiếng only means dialect when it refers to a Vietnamese dialect, not one of a foreign language. I would say tiếng Anh (của) Mỹ. Likewise, Spanish is officially tiếng Tây Ban Nha, but a Việt kiều would just say tiếng Mễ.
Yes cuz the Mexican speaks Spanish and also those are the first people the Viet Kieu encountered first in the US who spoke Spanish 😅 but today if they are not referring to the Mexican specifically, you need to use “tiếng Tây Ban Nha” for other Vietnamese to understand cuz many other South American countries speak Spanish and also the Spanish people themselves.
I think it also depends on the context where you at and who you speaking to for the vocabulary you would choose to use.
American English is different for British English. The same as British English is different for Australian, New Zealand, Indian, Canada. This video would make more sense when you make the comparision of the varying Vietnamese like the varying English around the world.
It sure beats me why the Vietnamese communist Party tries so hard to purge and is succeeding in removing the Chinese influence from all aspects of Vietnamese culture. After all without Chinese help, they could not and would not have won the war. Be as it may, one thing the VCP cannot undo is to whitewash away the Chinese influence from Vietnam literary heritage.
After the most treasure single piece of Vietnamese literary is "the story of Kieu". Anyone who can put 2+2 together can tell it is redolent of Chinese literary anecdotes too. Even french educated that I was, in my old age I gladly forget Baudelaire and remember my " Kieu".
How d’you say : người Mỹ, người Pháp, etc….Anh, Ý, Đức ..???
As a Vietnamese most of the old words are still somewhat used in southern vietnamese especially old people
Lol it’s funny that the kieu is 侨😅
02:08 It is interestingly strange that I understood Trung Quoc as a Korean speaker because of the Sino- Korean words/influence
in Korean 중국 중= (jung/chung/tsung) and 국 = (guk) 🤯
I live for languages thank you for interesting explanations.
Both syllables stem from China. Trung means middle and Quô´c means something like empire, thus the Middle Empire. In Mandarin this was flattened to Zhong Guo.
I'm pretty sure philipines in Chinese (and Vietnamese Chinese Characters) is 菲律宾（fēi lǜ bīn/fei leot ban）instead of 飞伦敦（fēi lún dūn/fei leon doen）. Phi are the same anyway, but lǜ/leot apparently has a better match with luat, bīn/ban looks quite off but actually there is a clear map between mandarin bi- and vietnamese ti-: 民mín-dân，名míng-danh，並bìng-tính，妙miào-diệu，標biāo-tiêu，便biàn-tiện，鼻bí-tị
Those latter examples are chongniu doublets.
Em sai rồi. Những người không rành tiếng Việt mới nói như vậy. Lần sau em nên làm một cuộc phỏng vấn những người rành tiếng Việt sẽ hoàn toàn không giống những gì em nói.
It's really a pity that Vietnam abondoned Chinese characters. Though I speak absolutely 0 Vietnamese, I can just guess what the original characters are based on the pronounciation and immediately understand the connections and differences between these words.
I was so mad with the Vietnam consulate young Counsel in GuangZhou, China when he said my Vietnamese name does not jive(equal)my English.Chinese name in my US passport/HK ID in 2016. I don't speak Vietnamese at the time, but I look up the web, and there it is. My Vietnamese name was derived from the Chinese characters seventy years ago, and he doesn't know that name, the word nowadays in Vietnamese mean something different, and that's the only thing he know. SO someone who is the counsel in China, GZ at the Vietnam Counsel representing Vietnam is rejecting my Vietnam birth certificate becuase he doesn't know his own language and instead telling me that my name is not the same as the CHinese/Enlgish translation. I got so furios that it's AN INSULT TO VIETNAMESE AND VIET KIEU, THE OLD CLERK admit is the same word, but since his position is much lower, he can only say to me alone is to go to Vietnam , hire someone to work on getting your Vietnam status.Now what I said here may cause me problems in Vietnam, but then I am 70 now, so the truth is the young counsel is basing the name from seventy years ago with Chinese influence and compare that to the new Vietnamese used nowadays in 2020 in Vietnam, and that shows how the party can choose someone like that to be in the "Coulselate" In CHINA-GUANGZHOU especially is in China, and he doesn't speak chinese, the old clerk obviously does, as he can understand my documents well. Anyway, I think I get my point through.
The point is the young cousel does not understand Vietnamese before his time, and so he just mistakenly say that name is not the same as your Chinese/English name, so you don't qualify for 5 year...but the only reason is because he does not know the Vietnamese language history under Chinese influence, he forgot I got my name sixty some years ago in Saigon, not twenty years ago! The word has different meaning now! And he doesn't know, and said it does not match, where i look up the web and have proofed in the Chinese language that the name(second character)means just that seventy years ago, but mean something different these days. I consider the V party a weakness in choosing this young fellow, especially to be stationed in GuangZhou, China! Ok, I know I probably have trouble going to Vietname now. But the truth is I am right, and who cares!!! Except the people, who doesn't care, high ranking in all countries these days..that's the trend...
And then even after I show him a copy of my father's Chinese passport issued in Vietnam, which has both Chinese and Vietnamese name, showing proof is the same name, the young counsel still says No to the evidences.I suggest researching on his qualifications or his sinister motives like bribes or his resume not actually matching his real qualifications. I was so mad at the time , but of course, that “Anh xx" does not represent all of vietnam or the party or the people or the chinese influence of yester year on Vietnamese language! Up to this day I still don't know why he say that, is naive, discriminate or prejudice or other sinister motives. Someone that naive couldn't have been the counselate to GZ, China, if so, why did he do that when it's so obvious after I show him the document from my father's passport stamped with both Chinese and Vietnamese name of me and my brothers, sisters.(Anh trai, Chi ghi)
The contemporary Vietnamese words used in Vietnam that you use sound very much like the contemporary Cantonese counterparts.
Vietnamese has evolved a lot.
One minor mistake: the Philippines in Chinese is “菲律宾” (Fei Lv Bin) not "飞伦敦“ (Fei Lun Dun).
伦敦 is the translation for London, btw.
Seems more like political affiliation toward sounding and speaking American English words for those places than Vietnamization. Like you said, it's just with a Vietnamese accent.
Yes, I think so, too. Back in the seventies even in the North anything, even names of persons, was strictly broken down to Vietnamese type syllables. So "Hungary" became "Hun-ga-ri" and "Bulgaria" became "Bun-ga-ri". Today they just take them one to one from English. Today you read "Nigeria" and other words and wonder how they pronounce that linguistic mess.
There's also a tinge of anti-Chinese sentiment in there as well. Is Á Châu really that much of a departure from Châu Á? If the logic is to stop saying it in Chinese loanwords format, then we might as well stop saying it all together and just say "Asia" with a Vietnamese accent.
@@bkcalvine Hello, that strange word "Á Châu" instead of "Châu Á" is from the Chinese grammar. I do not speak Chinese, but I know that they put the classifier after the concerning word. "Á Châu" today is an expression you will exclusively hear from overseas Vietnamese, as far as I know. In that logic I only know "Á Châu", Europe for example is always "Châu Âu".
@@ruedigernassauer Hello there! As someone who speaks a good dose of both (tiếng việt không sao! / 中文沒問題 - zhong wen mei wen ti!), there just seems to be a lot of redundancy in this logic. It feels strange to "adjust the grammar" for what is considered a loanword, but also focus on "Vietnamization" of English based terms, many of which are also loanwords or adjusted toward English based phonetics.
In the same token, why not just adjust all Vietnamese name order since they follow the Chinese (really, the Han language) format? Hồ Chí Minh might as well be Minh Chí Hồ. Or perhaps tinker with common terms like cảnh sát (police), chính phủ (government), or common idioms that follow a certain order for their meaning? Given that Vietnamese has such a high concentration of loanwords (as much as 70%) that derived from the language of Han, I think there are a lot of vocabulary words / expressions that are simply unavoidable.
@@bkcalvine Hello, you write "cảnh sát" instead of "công an" (police). Are you an overseas Vietnamese? Yes, those Chinese compositions have mostly retained their Chinese word order. "Công an" is in the same tradition: public + peace. What is bugging me as someone who tries for now 3 years to understand Vietnamese at least in its written form (yes, those Chinese expressions amid Vietnamese are the hardest part of it) is to read English country names with their unruly orthography all with a Vietnamese pronunciation. Example: Philippines, pronounced "Phi-li-pin", or even worse, Malaysia, pronounced "Ma-lai-gi-a" (instead of "nước Mã-lai"), but for Malaysian they say still Mã-lai as in "người Mã-lai" (Malaysian person). This breaks Vietnamese linguistic logic. -- I live in Germany. There I really hate getting my language ruined by being riddled with mostly replaceable English expressions.
All of the words you stated are still widely used in Vietnam, especially in the Southern Vietnam. They are only considered less formal and vulgar. For example, it is very informal now to use đái as it means "to pee". You mostly use đái with close friends or family. "Đi vệ sinh" is equal to "go to the bathroom/restroom" = being polite not saying what are you going to do in the bathroom. Saying Cầu tiêu in Vietnam is like American say going to the toilet. It sounds cheap and unpleasant to the ears but people who are close to you may feel it is fine. Same goes to the use of Tàu. It may make Chinese ethnic Vietnamese feel like how black American feel when they were called the n*word though the word was also widely used in the past to refer to the black American population.
I would agree with you in some cases but not in others. I don't think it's weird that the language has grown in different ways. As more time passes, we'll see more differences. It's natural and we shouldn't stigmatize it. American English is no worse off than British English.
Also, I've never heard anyone complaining that someone saying "they gotta use the toilet" is vulgar or crass. I feel like y'all are reaching on that one. It's not weird to say I gotta use the toilet instead of I gotta go to the bathroom.
Cảm ơn bạn đã tải lên TH-cam những ngôn từ thuần túy và chính sát. Bạn rất giỏi và thông thạo tiếng việt. Xin cảm ơn bạn.
Chính sát ? Or chính xác ?
I am not Vietnamese but I can understand Viet Kieu Vietnamese accent pretty well
What’s the cause for this occurrence and why? Did it evolve because the younger gen is now the dominate population or has has it been formally introduced/taught as the “correct/accepted” vocabulary?
For the most part, this is something that happens in every immigrant community.
How long does someone need to be away from Vietnam to be classed as Viet kieu?
This is actually a very interesting question! I have relatives who have left Vietnam in the 90s and they’re definitely categorized as Việt Kiều. I also have relatives who have lived overseas for a few years now and they’re definitely not Việt Kiều. So I guess something in between is harder to judge. For me I would say at least 15-20 years of living abroad.
I guess ,long enough to not use current Vietnamese language .thankyou
As long as they possess a green card or citizenship, they’re considered Viet kieu
@@LearnVietnameseWithAnnie people overseas really don't like being called việt kiều. They say người việt hải ngoại or for younger generations, người mỹ gốc Việt
Man I use tầu.. and cầu tiêu.. I use đi đái ánd ỉa lol they made it too complicating nowadays.. made it sound more like chinese..
my family uses all these words
VietKieu 越侨
越僑in fact
Ooooohhh makes sense haha
No wonder ppl looked at me weird back then
Heyy Annie that's a great video!! ^^ I want to empty my heart a little bit. I think it's really a shame that nowadays Vietnamese has abandoned the old way of naming cities and countries, they sounded much more cooler when they were written that way. The old transcription even had a meaning, which I think is so cool (example: Gia Nã Đại: Gia = house, family, Đại = large, immense). Now the countries in Vietnamese are written just like in English, which kills the diversity and beauty of the language a little bit. I may be a bit of a weirdo but I still choose to pronounce the old từ Hán-Việt when talking about places to my Vietnamese friends :P
Do the Hán Việt names really carry that much meaning? I was under the impression the Chinese just matched the names phonetically - Đức is called Đức because it sounds like 'Deutsch', not because Germans are especially moral people.
gia means plus in there
@@JH-ty2cs I agree, it cause a lot of confusion
I think you are wrong about Trung Hoa or Người Hoa. These are old Vietnamese. New Vietnamese is not using Hoa for Chinese or China.
Your comments between Viet Kieu and Vietnamese usage of language are not correct. Author claims Vietkieu uses common or low class words vs. Vietnamese who live in VN with high class or polished words. This is totally unacceptable. There are Vietkieus who are highly educated and ones that are not. However, they use both normal and polite words in appropriate environments. This video is grossly inaccurate.
Especially when most Viet Kieu are actually educated. But she must be a parachute kid of those commie exploiters.
Agreed!
I think she mixes up colloquial with standard Vietnamese. Perhaps, the Viet Kieu's she came in contact with spoke mostly informal/colloquial Viet? For example, Người Hoa/Người Việt gốc Hoa (Chinese-Vietnamese) or Người Trung Quốc (Chinese in general) are the correct and polite forms.
I knowledge that they turn saigon to sai gon, and hanoi to ha noi, i was like wth?
VIetnamese is a monosyllabic language so Sai Gon and Ha Noi are actually correct.
Old Vietnamese is a classical language that sounds very intellectual and respectful. New Vietnamese is like Chinese after the cultural revolution. It is more like a language used by communist..
It’s basically the difference between Mandarin in Taiwan and in China.
You all will just say anything, won’t you.
cautieu 茅坑 nha-vesinh 卫生间
exactly
Not exactly as Việt-Kiều technically used as you have compared in this video. It is true that colloquially some uneducated Vietnamese overseas used informal vocabularies as you have described, but for someone who went to school, they used official terms just like in Vietnam, even more correctly than modern Vietnamese language.
I disagree that it's a difference due to education. It's just the language evolves in the different ways. It's like how English is spoken differently in America vs England. No one is wrong here. It's just different.
This girl generalized that all Viet kieu speak old and informal version of Vietnamese. And she talked with a smirkily smile when refer to Viet kieu choice of words. This is unacceptable. It is a form of discrimination against Vietnamese oversea. She is indirectly refer to Viet Kieu as Old fashion, Informal and out of date. Bad Bad bad.
I‘m Viet Kieu and some of the words she listed that Viet Kieu uses I‘ve never heard before. I used all the words she listed as “newer“ vietnamese. I think she mainly interacted with Viet Kieus who are not fluent or whose parents haven‘t been in Vietnam for 30+ years.
Thúi lá...
The Word Mễ Tây Cơ is even not used in Chinese or Cantonese anymore.
Yes it is. 墨西哥.
@@bkcalvine false, it is 米西基
@@QuacGiaNgoVietCongHoa 錯了我答應是墨西哥。 你真的好蠢
@@QuacGiaNgoVietCongHoa 戇鳩鳩
@@bkcalvine phan dịch không chính xác
Vietnamese words are similar to Chinese.😅
Oversea Vietnamese most of them were Boat people, Oversea Hoa Vietnamese were Boat people square.
About "most" I am not sure. Sure is: In Western countries they are mostly Southerners and in formerly socialist countries (take the Eastern part of Germany, too) they are mostly Northers sent to work off their country´s debt but stayed. In Czechia Vietnamese has the status as officially recognized minority language. I live in the West of Germany. Here I had little conversation with a VN music teacher pronouncing his name the Northern way. So I googled him. He came here via Canada after having studied in Vietnam by regular immigration.
Bạn nên học lại cho kỹ rồi đi dạy. Ở VN bình thường vẫn gọi là tàu theo nghĩa coi thường với TQ, vẫn gọi là đi vệ sinh, nhà vệ sinh, hãng, trụ sở...
Chào bạn, chắc là bạn nghe chưa kỹ bài giảng của mình. Mình nói đúng như ý của bạn: ở VN vẫn nói “Tàu” nhưng với ý coi thường. Vẫn nói “đi cầu tiêu” nhưng ít hơn, thay vào đó nói “đi vệ sinh”. Vẫn dùng “hãng” ví dụ trong “hãng hàng không”, v.v. Hy vọng bạn có thời gian xem lại để rõ ý của mình ạ.
Nhưng mà từ “tàu” dùng cho TQ ko có nghĩa là “con tàu”. Tàu này là một tiếng của từ Tàu khựa..
I still prefer đi đái :))))))))
Don’t laugh girl ! Many of you guys who were born before 1975 didn’t know how to use the toilet or even didn’t have a toilet at home ! Do you know that ?
VK are the VN citizens who live abroad. Boat people who fled the country and rejected the communist government are not VK.
Giọng tiếng Việt của bạn này cứ thều thào kiểu sắp chết vậy
Anh cũng nói người tàu! Anh kg biết là kg Politically correct? Tôi này anh sẽ nói anh cần đi cầu tiêu để coi phản ứng vợ tôi. 😛
sorry bro. your spelling is all over the place.
@@kanamasai5194 xin sữa chửa đi!!
@@bradhienzachary Pardon my impertinence.
Perhaps ( 𝑡𝑜̂́𝑖 𝑛𝑎𝑦 ) to replace ( 𝑡𝑜̂𝑖 𝑛𝑎̀𝑦 )
@@kanamasai5194 oh đúng rồi! Khi Anh đánh vấn với IPhone này những chữ cái vá dấu là nhỏ quá. Cám ơn, mắt em còn tốt.
I always tease my native Vietnamese girlfriend or friends that their Vietnamese is wrong and that my dodgy-at-best viet Kieu Vietnamese is đờ correct đờ version! 😆🤣😆