Summarizing Romance sound shifts
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ค. 2024
- Links:
Germanic sound shifts: • Summarizing Germanic s...
Emperor Tigerstar’s map of Ancient Rome every year: • The History of the Rom...
Xidnaf’s video with the dialect continuum example (What even is a language?): • What Even Is a Language?
Swedish language overview: • Language Overview: Swe...
K Klein’s video about Italian sounding like Swedish: • Italian Sounds A Bit L...
Translations:
0:54: (Latin) I am your father.
7:06: (Spanish) Well now I am not doing it.
9:11: (Proto-Slavic) Can I offer you a nice sound in this trying time?
19:44: (Italian) A part of him lives within me, doesn’t it?
It's so nice youtubers remembering Catalan exists and latin languages aren't just Spanish French and Italian lmao
But there's a lot of other ones he didn't include. I think it's just the fact that he has happened to study Catalan.
You forgot to mention Portuguese. VOCÊ VAI A BRASIL AGROA!
I think the reason why most don’t include other romance languages is just that there are to many to talk about all of them so they just pick the most famous ones. If we combine all areas where romance languages are spoken in the world I think we’d get close to a thousand dialects so it would just be impossible to cover them up and even if we stay in europe you can easily find 50 different dialects which form a dialectal continuum so basically we can understand that most people simplify it to french italian portuguese spanish and romanian
there are a lot more, mine for example isn't there but it has similar changes to Catalan
I'm waiting to see when people will discover Russian isn't the only slavic language
Quick thing on the "ego" part: in italian "io" retains the latin stress, being ['i.o] not ['jo]
Though it can sometimes be reduced to ['jo] in rapid speech
That's the same thing I thought after listening that
@@Eic17H I think it is a dialect inflection
@@Eic17H as an Italian, I don't think so, probably it's dialectal
@Eic17H Wouldn't you just cut out the pronoun all together in day-to-day speech?
19:36 the reason that the Italian word is scudo instead of the expected *scuto is because it's not directly inherited, rather it was borrowed from a North Italian language which actually had the -t- to -d- change, there are several words like that in Italian (spiga < spica, riva < ripa) that did the same voicing, where the borrowed words displaced the native inherited ones
This comment is gold ❤
Good point. There are even cases where words from the same etimology ended up in italian both from galloitalic and italoromance, such as the words Lacuna and Laguna, both from Latin Lacuna, nowdays with two different meanings
That is the origin of today Standard Italian... The today's Italy Northern languages... What people called dialects for quite a while were the original languages of the Italic Peninsula before there was Italy as such or Italian was even attempted to be created and standardised based on several languages of the Peninsula, but mainly the North...
@@tuggaboy Stamdard italian stem from a central italian dialect, not from the northern ones
I love how your visualization of the expansion of Rome is just you slowly stretching a jpg image
Having done research on a bunch of Romance languages for a certain upcoming video, I wanted to chime in that Sardinian also does the /kʷ/ /gʷ/ > /p/ /b/ sound shift.
Only some dialects!
This Saturday is gonna be wild!
Yeah. I was about to comment this as well. The old Sardinian language have the /p/ /b/ sound shift similar to Romanian dialects.
@@watchyourlanguage3870 Heeey if you need help or audio for Sardinian and the evolution of it I'm a Sardinian speaker and I have the book on the evolution of Sardinian phonology written by Max Leopold Wagner(greatest sardinian researcher) 😊
Some PIE labialized velars turned into bilabials in Greek as well
No way no way no way. I'm more excited that this video dropped than how excited I've been for blockbusters coming to cinemas
Same omg ahahshsh
Some tiny remarks about Catalan:
6:14 Catalan's "standard" pronunciation of the "l" is still [ɫ] even if it is gradually getting lost because of Spanish influence!
8:15 Some dialects of Catalan (predominantly in Mallorca but also some dialects in València) also keep the [v] sound.
I didn't know that about the velarized l
I'm a Catalan native and pronouncing for example elefant with a velarized l makes me think of how certain old people speak
Diria que en Manel te aquest accent de la l velaritzada haha
@@user-uk5qm5fm8g exactly, it's becoming old-fashioned and being reduced to some dialects because it's falling out of use, but for example it's very common to hear it in Catalan media
També estaria bé dir que moltes "ll" del català se pronuncien més com a "li", per exemple la paraula "llop" se pronuncia més com "liop" que com "yop" (o sigue que en castellà les "ll" se pronuncien amb la llengua més retreta i en català amb la llengua més avant).
@@Ylyan_VL no és ben bé "li", es tracta d'un so palatalitzat [ʎ] que, de fet, ja ho explica al video al minut 6:20, mostrant com el mateix so també va aparèixer al castellà però després es va fusionar amb [ʝ] (el so de "y") a molts dialectes.
@@user-uk5qm5fm8g that's because you must be from Barcelona or because your environment is not catalan speaking. I am catalan and the ll is mostly velarized around me.
Italian viewer here, loved the content. About the shift from the "TI+vowel" pattern, you correctly mentioned that your example "stationem", is a loanword. It was almost literally picked out of the latin dictionary by modern humanists in the Renaissance. Due to the fashion of the time, they left the latin word almost identical and only 'italianized' the ending ('stationem' to 'stazione'), and they adopted the 'z' following the ecclesiastical pronunciation of Latin, which was the one used by the Church at the time (BTW this pronunciation is proven to have no historical connection to Classical OR Vulgar Latin whatsoever).
We call this set of words taken from latin on a later stage, 'vocaboli dotti' (cultured words).
But there is another child of the latin 'TI', the one that followed the live development of phonology throughout the middle ages. In italian at least, this evolved into 'GI-'. Some examples are:
- rationem ("motive, cause") --> ragione ("reason")
- stationem ("resting place, stop") --> stagione ("season")
As you can see, the two different evolutions also made it to English, through the Normans and the French ('saison' and 'raison' in our case).
So if you wonder whether 'desk' and 'disk' are related, yes they come from the exact same word.
I think the words ragione and stagione were brought by occitan speakers or some other way, and the normal Tuscan evolution was /ts/ and /ts:/, like in /lentswolo/
@@viperking6573 but you see that LENTEOLUM has the TE group, which might have worked differently than TI. Canzone is yet again a new word invented in the Renaissance, which has supplanted the more original 'canto'.
@@francinze I dont think so since TE became TI in vulgar latin, like any E in that position, for example also in BALNEU, and also I don't think canzone was adopted by renaissance humanists, since in other languages it respects the rule ( also in Sardinian which a renaissance-esque group of people would have adopted it as /kantsone/, but it survives today as /kantthone/, /kanthone/, /kantone/, kantsone/ in all variants, and has a different meaning than a song actually, let me check in the Wagner etymological dictionary one sec
@@francinze Ok yeah, canthone /kan'tθone/ is said to derive from CANTIONE in sardinian according to Wagner, and the meaning of the word is a sung poem, as the canthonariu /kantθo'narju/ is the poet that sings
Romanian also has that shift, but the consonant is silent. "-TI-" became "-CI-"
mentio,-nis - minciună (lie)
But this is tbh valid mostly for the "-TIO, -TIONIS" endings in latin, which in Romanian evolved into "-CIUNE"
rogatio,-tionis - rugăciune (prayer)
6:03 just a note on the Romanian „oară”, this means "time" in the usage of e.g. "5 times"/"the only time" (although it's not used for "once / one time"). While it's definitely still descended from the same latin root, there's also the word „oră”, meaning "hour", which might make for a better comparison imo.
Also at 9:53, „făină” is 3 syllables: [fə'inə], in the same stress pattern as the rest of the languages.
Finally, while your pronunciation of „eu” as [jo] is a valid pronunciation and very common in quick speech, „eu” is commonly pronounced on a spectrum [jo~jow~jəw~jew]. There are also speakers that, due to hypercorrection, don't preiotate words like various conjugations of „a fi” (e.g. ești, este, e, eram, erai, etc.) or the pronouns (e.g. ea, el, or indeed eu) so they pronounce it [ew], exactly as written. Basically there's a bunch of ways to pronounce it, including the one you chose.
Otherwise great video, it was very interesting and the pronunciation was far better than I've come to expect from online videos not made by native speakers. I fully expected to notice a bunch more mistakes but there really was just the one, the stress on „făină”, which is understandable because the spelling is ambiguous. „Faină”, for example, has the stress pattern you gave despite being spelled very similar. Admittedly that's a loanword from English "fine", but there's also „haină” which also has the same stress.
Cum zicea bunica "gioacâ", interesant, dacă vrei poți găsi mereu un regionalism mai aproape de latină dacă cauți. In R.Moldova spun "setcă" la "sită", mai aproape de italianul "setaccio".
And, importantly, haină actually has two meanings with different pronunciations: ['haj.nə], meaning cloth, and [ha'i.nə], which is the feminine of hain [ha'in], meaning evil. However neither of these actually come from Latin, the former coming from South Slavic languages and the latter coming from Turkish.
Yeah, another thing was "ai". Have you guys ever heard garlic spoken that way?
Faină si fain sunt preluate din germana, nu engleza, mai exact de la cuvantul "fein".
@@TheUltimateLegend7 it's a rarer regionalism
Important to note that there are many italo dalmatian languages, not just the one. While they're often called dialetti in italy, they are generally understood to be languages of their own right with large differences between them resulting in a large lack of intelligibility.
In standard Italian /s/ and /z/ are written with the same letter, but there are minimal pairs if we consider sounds across multiple words, and many many if we consider near minimal pairs, where the difference is not conditional on the environment around the consonant. The problem is that due to the influence of regional languages of italy, s and z lost phonemic distinction in most of Italy. Distinction is preserved in florence, the origin of standard italian.
Provo sempre a preservare la distinzione fonetica delle due s, ma purtroppo suona innaturale a praticamente tutti gli italiani. È un peccato avere perso questa distinzione
@@esti-od1mz Molto interessante, potresti farmi qualche esempio per favore?
@@ledues3336 es. presento 〈presènto〉, del verbo presentire, diverso da presento 〈pre∫ènto〉, del verbo presentare)
This is a great video but could I recommend that in the future you read the words from the descendant languages in the same order each time? I kept getting confused and having to rewatch those portions of the videos if, for instance, I wanted to focus on how Portuguese changed.
If it helps, I read them to where the main change-affected language is at the end, but other than that, I try to keep it geographically consistent, either flowing east-to-west or west-to-east
@@watchyourlanguage3870 Then maybe highlight in editing which one you're saying. I had to pause once or twice every time one of those screens came up just so I could find the word being said.
@@watchyourlanguage3870The logic you used to order the languages was apparent (and I think sensible)-it's just difficult to do that mental calculation at speed while trying to take in so much other information.
What could help would be to introduce a pause between each 'group' of languages, and highlight the languages as you go along.
For a specific example, instead of:
"Portuguese noite, Catalan nit, French nuit, Spanish noche, Italian notte…"
try either:
"…Portuguese noite, Catalan nit, and French nuit; (pause) Spanish noche; (pause) Italian notte…"
or:
"… became Portuguese noite, Catalan nit, and French nuit; palatalised in Spanish noche; retained gemination in Italian notte…"
while also highlighting as you go along.
I loved the video otherwise!
Most notable Portuguese evolution was the fall of N and L
Calente - caente - quente
Dolor - door - dor
Color - coor - cor
Celo - ceo - céu
Velo - veo - véu
Blanco - Branco
Animales - animaes - animais
Luna - lūa - lua
Irmana - irmãa - irmã
Perdonar - perdõar - perdoar
Pessona - pessõa - pessoa
Lana - lãa - lã
Mazana - mazãa - maçã
.
Beyond the "bilis by "vel"
Impossível, incrível... Etc
@@watchyourlanguage3870 I definitely picked up on that pattern after a bit. It may be a bit of a pain but adding an animation so that the one you are saying pops up or brightens when saying it could help to keep people oriented.
About the qua gua/ pa ba shift in Romanian happens in Sardinian too. Infact "Language" is Limba like in Romanian
Yes, but only in northern Sardinian
@@r.m.pereira5958 which is considered the most conservative
Little correction at 7:50, Romanian _leu_ is most likely an older borrowing from Latin, since a directly inherited work would have given _*ieu_ , as it happened with _iepure_ ("rabbit", < Lat. _leporem_ ). The fact that Romanian has both a lot of inherited words AND neologisms from Latin has given rise to many doublets. For instance, Lat. _monumentum_ has been borrowed as Ro. _monument_ , but inherited as Ro. _mormânt_ ("grave"). It's really interesting.
Also, /h/ exists in Romanian words of Latin origin, but has developed from /v/ or /f/. For example, the verb _a se holba_ from Lat. _volvere_, or _hier_, regional variant of _fier_ ("iron").
Great job with the video and pronunciation otherwise, I'm happy to have just stumbled upon your channel. :)
Monument nu a dat niciun mormânt. Mormânt este format din verbul “a muri (mor)” + sufixul mânt
Iepure nu este din niciun leporem (ac. de la lepus).
Limba albaneză și, parțial, limba română demonstrează originea indo-europeană a acestui radical.
Astfel, alb. “lapë” (bucată de piele, lobul urechii, frunză) este cognat cu alb. “lëpush” (urecheat) și alb. “lepur” (iepure). În română avem Lăbuș (nume de câine), precum și lăpuș (brusture), date care justifică o origine traco-dacă ā substantivului iepure. Grecescul λοβός (lob, lobul urechii), λοπός (piele), λοπάς (farfurie plată) sunt cognați cu formele din română și albaneză, ca și latinescul lepus,-oris.
Iepure derivă din Proto Indo Europeana “*lep-“ (a coji, a jupui, a spinteca), “*lepos-“ (cârpă).
Cognați Indo Europeni:
gr. λέπω (a jupui), λοπός (coajă), λώπη (cârpă, petec), alb. lapë (cârpă, frunză, peritoneu), lituan. lapas (frunză), lopas (cârpă, petec), rus. lápitь (a cârpi, a petici), n.g.s. lappen (bucată de cârpă); alți cognați indo europeni sunt românescul lăpuș și lepedeu.
Iepure deriva din acest radical Proto Indo European printr-un traco-ilir. *lepo (brusture, ureche mare) > *lepore (iepure) > iepure.
Iepure este cognat cu lăpuș, lepedeu și lipan.
Leu într-adevăr este din latină.
Nu a avut loc palatalizarea lui “l” urmat de “e”.
Nepalatalizarea lui “l” urmat de “e” sau “i” este întâlnită la multe elemente lexicale de proveniență traco-dacă, fenomen care nu are o explicație clară. Prin urmare, acest principiu fonologic trebuie reconsiderat
Yeah, in Moldova many words follow that shift (v -> h)
verbum - vorbă - horbă
vulpes - vulpe - hulpe
vultur - vultur - hultur/hultan
@@mymylenrok7466 Învață lingvistică.
Vorbă, vulpe și vultan nu provin din latină
Great video, as always, but it's a bit too fast to comprehensibly follow. I'd make bigger stops between the sections to separate them a bit.
To avoid consonant clusters starting with s at the beginning of a word, following the preposition "in", some words in Italian used to get an "i" before them. For instance: "spalla" (shoulder), "in ispalla" (on the shoulders); "strada" (road), "in istrada" (on the road); "scherzo" (joke/prank), "per ischerzo" (as a joke). You can find these expressions in books from just 60 years ago, but now they've completely disappeared, with the exception of "scritto" (writ); "per iscritto" (written/on paper).
It distinctly sounds Manzonian to me
WELL, ACTUALLY Catalan's classification is still debated, some put it into Iberian Romance, others into Gallo Romance and again others group it together with Occitan into Occitan Romance which acts as a bridge between the former two. Then again others put the whole group of Occitan Romance into either Iberian or Gallo Romance, but I personally prefer the bridge solution because it seems to be the most neutral one. Also, what most linguists are sure about iirc is that Occitan is Catalan's closest relative
I'm pretty sure the general consensus among linguists is that it is Occitano-romance
@@fueyo2229 it's what I opt with
I agree, as a catalan native I was surprised on how easy many occitan dialects sound. Also, unfortunately I believe our political situations over centuries have made many linguistic analysis a bit biased. I would argue aragonese is the transition iberic-occitanoromance
@@qazsertyer Aragonese actually isn't a transition, it's fully occitano-romance (if you look deep into its vocabulary you can see it's purely occitano-romance, as well as similar diphtongs as in Occitan), it's just very influenced by Spanish, Aragonese actually used to be spoken all the way to modern La Rioja and Navarra, those dialects (called Navarrese romance) were actually the transition between ibero romance and occitano-romance
@@fueyo2229 You can not put a "line" in the dialectal continuum... There are not transitions... ALL of THEM are "transitions" of Latin
Some Things about romanian:
The dark l sound actually became a w in between vowels, lets take words stea(star),zi(day) and cățea(she-dog), they evolved from latin stella,diella, and catella respectively, but they have archaic and or regional prononciations like steauă, cățeauă and ziuă, which explains their definite forms, also aromanian has these archaisims as the normal forms, mainly steaua/stiau,cătsauă/cătsau and dzua.
Also the f-h change of spanish happened in romanian on a dialectal level aswell, in my dialect of romanian, f becomes h before i and e, so fier becomes hier,fiu becomes hiu, and so on, but unlike spanish, the h is still pronounced
What dialect do you speak?
@@octaviantimisoreanu5810 Galați Moldovan, I don't know if this applies to the whole of Moldova, but it's a pretty prevalent sound shift in rural Galați
@@aroma13 interesting. I never knew they spoke this way in Galati
@@aroma13 Bun îi vinu' / jinu' / hinu' ? (3 feluri de pronunție în Moldova) :)
@@aroma13 It is very similar in the north, rural Satu-Mare and Maramures at least. Fier=her.
A few things about Portuguese:
1. Ungeminated intervocalic n and l regularly is lost in Portuguese, with n producing nasalization which can then develop in a number of ways including being lost entirely (though this happened in the transition from Medieval Galician-Portuguese to Modern Portuguese and was very easily deciphered in medieval scripts)
2. As a consequence of the previous rule, geminated nn and ll then took on the simple ungeminated form replacing the originals which were now lost
3. Both of those rules only apply if there was no palatalization earlier, i.e. they were not followed by a j
4. Initial gl- is rare in inherited Portuguese words but does develop into l- as seen in glārea > leira, and globellum > lovelo > novelo (this last part is a consequence of dissimilation but lovelo is an attested older form)
Plus in general:
Most of Latin -tiō (-tiōnem) is generally borrowed differently in Romance languages than their inherited forms, while rare, these inherited developments can be seen in words like satiōnem and ratiōnem for intervocalic development and factiōnem
satiōnem
Pt: sazão
Sp: sazón
Ct: saó
Fr: saison
Unattested in It. or Ro.
ratiōnem (many of these languages may also have a borrowed doublet)
Pt: razão (borrowed: ração)
Sp: razón (borrowed: ración)
Ct: raó (borrowed: ració)
Fr: raison (borrowed: ration)
It: ragione (borrowed: razione)
Unattested in Ro.
factiōnem
Pt: feição (borrowed: facção)
Ct: faiçó (borrowed: facció)
Fr: façon (borrowed: faction)
Unattested inherited form in Sp., It. or Ro.
Plus [fl] [cl] [pl] regularly evolved into [ch], except where the words were reborrowed from Latin as in the case of “flor” (the form _chor_ is attested in mediaeval documents, but was displaced).
interestingly, Norman dialects have something like (using Jerriais as an example) faichon instead of façon, and that's part of why English has 'fashion' instead of 'fasion' or something like that (though due to yod coalescence it'd likely still end up pronounced the same. Attested as 'fechoun' in Anglo-Norman)
Vos perdestes as "n", (e moitas cousas mais) nos aínda as temos...
wow, tio turning into gio in italian, I wonder what the Romanian reflex of it is
Calente - caente - quente
Dolor - door - dor
Color - coor - cor
Celo - ceo - céu
Velo - veo - véu
Blanco - Branco
Animales - animaes - animais
Luna - lūa - lua
Irmana - irmãa - irmã
Perdonar - perdõar - perdoar
Pessona - pessõa - pessoa
Lana - lãa - lã
Mazana - mazãa - maçã
.
Beyond the "bilis by "vel"
Impossível, incrível... Etc
This is great work! Felicitări! 🎉🎉🎉
I forgot about this channel, and almost immediately after I came back, you posted TwT
As a native Italian, your pronunciation of the language is flawless
What an amazing video. Deserves extra respect because knowing all the romance languages gives you a perspective on the evolution of Latin that not everyone has. Great work.
thank you very much for this video. as a romance language enthusiast (I am romanian), this will really help me out. keep up the good content man! 🔥
I'm a speaker of the Parmigian dialect of the Emilian language in northern Italy, and I have extensively analyzed it, so I present Latin to Emilian sound changes (all examples will be in Parmigian orthography)
Initial /j/ becomes /z/ (iocare > zugär [zu'gɛːr] (to play)
/w/ becomes /v/ as in most Romance languages (ventus > vént [vẽnt]
/m, n, l, r/ pretty much stay the same, except for final /n/ being backed to /ŋ/ and disappearing in rapid speech (leaving nasalization on the previous vowel) (bonus > bon [bõŋ])
/s/ gets the same treatment as in French, Portuguese and other Gallo-Italic languages, it gets voiced to /z/ and contrasts with the now-degeminated /ss/ > /s/ (passus > pass [pas]; causa > coza ['kɔːza])
/f/ also stays the same and /h/ also disappears
/p, t, k/ are voiced to /v, d, g/ between vowels, while their geminated versions survive as /p, t, k/ (lupus > lovv [lɔv], rota > roda ['roːda], mica > miga ['miːɡa])
/b/ lenites to v while d and g stay the same
/pl, bl, fl/ clusters become /pj, bj, fj/ like in Italian, while /kl, gl/ become /tʃ, dʒ/ (planta > pjanta ['pjãnta], blancus > bjanch [bjãŋk], florem > fjor [fjoːr], clavem > ciäva ['tʃɛːva], ɡlacies > gias [dʒaːs])
Palatalized versions of /k/ and /g/ turn into /s/ and /z/ (/θ/ and /ð/ in Bolognese) before /ɛ, e, i/ (cinque > sinch [sĩŋk], gelatus > zlä [zlɛː])
/sk/ palatalizes to /s/, while /skl/ becomes /stʃ/ (piscem > pess [pɛs], sclavus > sciav [stʃaːv])
/kw/ and /ɡw/ are retained before /a/, but turn into /k/ and /ɡ/ before front vowels (quattuor > quator ['kwaːtor], ɡuardare > guardär [gwar'dɛːr], quid > che [ke], sanɡuis > sanɡov [sãŋɡov])
and then the vowels... huge mess, but the most distinctive change is
a > ɛː before front vowels in the next syllable
Ladino: 🥲
Mozarabic: 💀
This is not the Catalan flag! 😅
oh my god! i can't believe it's actually happening. Thanks for the vid
I was waiting so hard for this video!!!!!!
Subscribed right away after finishing this educational yet entertaining content
Loved the video, to the point of postponing everything else I was planning to do for 21 minutes.
word and syllable final might be retroflex or an alveolar tap in brazil too
so I finished watching this video. And yeah like I said previously, this video really helped me imagine how the majority of the romance languages evolved, and now everything that I’ve wondered for so long about got answered right here in this video. Thank you very much. Looking forward to Romance grammatical evolution.
useful as hell. There is belive it or not no good compilation of this
haven't watched it but I love it already
In Asturian there's a thing called "methaphonetic expressions" which is like if the stressed syllabe is a closed or open vowel it changes all the other vowels in a word, this happens usually with diminutives, for example "pequeñu" (small) but "piquiñín" (very small), but also happens dialectically, for example in most dialects "esparder" but in some southern dialects "ispardir" (to spread). The word "fégado" ends in -o, something unusual in Asturian but in the dialects that do generalized methaphonetic changes it is "fígadu", the e closing to i also made the -o close to u. Central Asturian also has some kind of gemination, although it is not written, we often geminate consonants clusters like aspectu is pronounced aspettu, dialectu is pronounced dialettu, (but it is not written), and btw Asturian also has a /h/ as did Old Spanish, which serves for some words of recent germanic origin (like guahe from german wagen).
That tse - the sound change happend in all iberian languages except Portuguese, and Mirandese as well as certain southern Leonese dialects keep the that old s sound that later became th in Spanish.
The Romanian "poarta" reminds of a Cuideiru Asturian dialect that actually does [wa] diphtongs (puarta), in Western Asturian it is [wo] (puorta) and central it's like spanish, puerta.
Fun thing: Spanish -er verbs can't have high vowels in the stem. Every exception is a compound word: suponer = su+poner; palidecer = pálid+ecer, etc. When Latin -ere verbs had high vowels in the stem, they'd either drop the stem vowel (cUrrere => cOrrer [run]) or raise the theme vowel (scribEre => escribIr [write])
That is fascinating
Correr example is nonsense. Correr is the natural evolution from Latin currere. Escribir comes from Vulgar Latin *scribīre, with gave Old Spanish 'escrevir'. Better examples are lucir < lūcere, cubrir < cooperīre.
@@lofdan "nonsense" is a pretty harsh way of putting it when I wasn't even wrong; every latin -ere verb that had a high vowel in the stem is no longer so. It's not like I'm saying this happened all in one event. It's just that after all the sound changes that turned Latin into Spanish, there were no -er verbs with high vowels in the stem except for compound words.
@@violet_broregarde in Iberian Vulgar Latin currere was /'korrere/, no high vowel.
@@lofdan Right, but BEFORE Iberian Vulgar Latin it DID have a high vowel.
Wow, that was compact and precise!
I wish I had the chance to study them but some day seeing languages like Asturian, Aragonese, Judeo-Spanish/Ladino, Walloon, Ligurian, Sardinian, Venetian, and Aromanian in videos like this would be so cool. :)
For sure, but I think that would amount to a lot more work, and the six major languages pretty much display all the important sound shifts from classical latin, and I think the main goal of these comparisons is to be as exhaustive as possible
15:32 the Romanian -ție/-țiune suffix is borrowed from Latin and is found in neologisms and the inherited one is actually -ciune which is found in inherited words and older borrowings. (mortăciune (corpse), sfiiciune (timidity)). You will not find -ție/-țiune in older words.
W is in fact used in French speech and we do use loan words. The whole ''oi'' thing is pronounced ''Wa'' or ''Wei''. The word for bird ''Oiseau'' is pronounced ''Wazo''. Here in Quebec some words starting with Voi (Voir, Voiture, voile, voisinage) can be pronounced with a W in some accents. Apparently in Normandy, where a huge part of our colonizers came from, they really liked the W consonant.
It definitely didn't come from the original latin /w/
@@NewLightning1 In classical latin ''V'' was pronounced as a w sound. This is why the word vinum became ''wine'' in English. Indeed in latin the sentence ''Vini, vidi, vici'' was pronounced weːniː ˈwiːdiː ˈwiːkiː
@@rpoutine3271
No, no. I meant the french [w] sound didn't come from the original (w) sound from latin. Not that it doesn't have a [w] sound
Can’t wait for the grammar video!
Great video!
With regards to 4:38, I just wanted to point out that oïl languages that were very thoroughly influenced by Germanic languages ( such as Picard for instance ) do use the w in many common words ( arwetcher, warder, wigner, for watch, keep, whine, etc ).
Love your work!
Love these, please do one for the Slavic languages!
Great video! I kinda wish that in the word pronouciation diagrams you'd separate european portuguese and brazilian portuguese, because SO many of those portuguese words have different phonetics in european portuguese. Just a nitpick tho :))
Great video! Just a heads up as I wanted to point out that using the normal "Senyera quatribarrada" that is the current official flag in catalonia would have been better as not only it's the actual official flag, but it is also inclusive of speakers in Valencia, Mallorca and other places, as it is also a traditional ensign over here.
The flag you used, the "Senyera Estelada" or just "Estelada" is linked with the nationalist movement in Catalonia and is only a Struggle Flag, meant to represent Catalonian struggle for independence and might not be inclusive of other national, political and cultural sensibilities in the Catalan-speaking lands.
well, the Spanish empire is glad for that: divide et impera
@@lunadeargint540 Unrelated. The division between Valencian, Catalan and Mallorcan goes back to the 14th century and isn't a product of Spanish Imperialism of any sort.
I like this little mini series, it would be interesting to see the sound changes between the different Slavic Languages
Great video, would have been interesting to see Sardinian included. It's especially noteworthy when it comes to the vocalic system and plosives!
Small correction: the Italian "io" is pronounced /'io/ [ˈiːo̞] so it's actually closer to the Latin "ego".
As a Portuguese speaker, I am very impressed with your pronunciation, which many have difficulty pronouncing
I love your memes in the background, they're so silly, especially the Joker ones
switching language so fast to do all these different pronunciations is impressive!
Could watch this all night!
While it isn't particularly important, as an Italian native speaker I found the pronounciation of Io very odd.
I, along with other speakers, pronounce it as [i:o], and the [o] may very well be short.
I don't know if it is a dialectal thing or not, but I don't think it is.
Non sono una madrelingua, ma anch'io ho pensato che la sua pronuncia dello 'io' era srana haha
@@GhastlessGibus well.... you've got to listen to yourself carefully: sometimes it does sound like "jo" depending to the way you're speaking: "io (me ne) vado" (= "I'm off the pot" - almost literally: "I myself go away from here") can be pronounced like "I:o me ne vado" to stress that it's me, who's going"
but when you're in a hurry and say "well now I'm off" it CAN (not always but sometimes) sound like "beh jova:do" and in that case it's a "jo". This happens in southern dialects more pronouncedly, especially the centre-south western: toscano, laziale, campano, calabrese - even siciliano (almost sound like "ghiovaado" ) although it it's not uncommon in northern standard italian speech.
>> northern dialects instead don't have "io" in any shape or form, we use a derivation of accusative "me" ("mi", "me" etc...) in the nominative too
@@diemme568 the usual pronunciation is [i:o], but in fast speech it obviously gets eroded in dialects that use it often. In northern dialects you use it only for emphasis, so it really never gets eroded.
@@tuluppampam yeah not really in dialects (in the north they're disappearing anyway) but in standard speech with a northern OR southern accent. For the DIALECTS, however, as a half northerner / half southerner I can tell that the situation is even more fluid ;-) :
*1)* in the north, dialects form the 1st person sing. with derivation of "ME"
_mi mangi, mi voo_ (milanese) so no problem here;
*2)* in the south, where 1st sing. forms are generally constructed with a derivation of "EGO", generally you tend to have the "J"
_"jejx m'n vajx" - "so' stat' jejx a ffà sta cos'"_ (napolitano var. abruzzese altosangrino - the fricative *(jx)* sounds *palatal* like the "ch in german after e, i, ä, ö, ü: _"pech, dich, bücher"_ and not *velar* like after a, o, u: _"bach, doch, fluch"_ )
*3)* the nominative forms with *(jx)* are often substituted with contracted forms
Jejx >> I' : _"I'm' n' vajx"_ (io me ne vado) _"I'nen chepisch"_ (io non capisco) etc...
@@diemme568 I just wanna say that those southern dialects you've mentioned could very easily be called their own language.
In any case, it is interesting to hear from someone who supposedly has more experience in multiple dialects.
also became /ʃ/ in argentina. don't know if in all positions
That's exactly what the video says.
I love it how this sounds like you are talking to romans from the past how their language spread and changed with time and what the changes are
6:34 In Chilean Spanish, that palatal is always voiced: mostly [ʝ] or [j] intervocalically and [dʒ] at the beginning of words or after nasals. However, [ʃ] is an allophone of [tʃ] in some non-standard varieties.
Well, the Latin "d" sound in Romanian used to be "dz" until it was dropped in the 19th century. So back in the day Romanian "Zice" was written as "Dzice", though it is worth stating that Romanian used to have the letter "D̦" which was pronounced with "dz" sound, so we wrote it as D̦ice. And the same goes for all this words:
Audi>Aud̦i (m. Auzi[Eng: "to hear")
Videre>Ved̦i (m. Vezi[Eng: "to see")
Deus>D̦eu (m. Zeu[Eng: "God" mostly a pagan one)
Decem>D̦ece (m.Zece[Eng: number 10).
So for the latter, at minute 14:45 you would write Cincispred̦ece. Though it was changed in 19th c. from dz>z, the pronunciation of "z" as "dz" is still found in today’s Romania mostly around the countryside; mostly seen as "peasant pronunciation" by modern standards of the Romanian language.
I loved the video so much that I subscribed and I saved the video in my playlist. Hopefully you will make more videos about the Romance languages especially about Romanian and its evolution from Latin and also the relationship between Romanian and the other Eastern-Romance language (e.g Aromanian).
19:38. That's the most porteño sounding escudo I've ever heard jaja. Wonderful research, cheers!
what a work you've done! Greets to all our latin friends from the Republic of Moldova
From an Italian, you did a great job!
My interpretation is that "il" and "i" come from vulgar latin beginnings"IL-lo" and "I-gli"; and "la" and "le" come from "il-LA" and "il-LE". The masculine forms "lo" and "gli" come from the final syllables "il-LO" and "i-GLI" before S consonant clusters such as "st” and "sp" since the "s" had to borrow a vowel from the previous word.
eh ... giusto, infatti
I speak Sicilian and I think the most interesting feature is the retroflex consonants. They basically came from the consonant clusters /str/ /(t)tr/ and /(d)dr/ (for example, street is [ˈʂɽa:ta] or [ˈʂ:a:ta], and most notably, with the geminated /ll/ becoming /ɖɖ/, as in Sardinian
Well done!
Some Spanish words that you would expect to start with 'h' but have 'f' instead (familia, facil vs hierro, harina) exist because they were relatively recent loanwords introduced by the clergy and the learned men who still romanticize the language Spanish came from. Take not that all words ignoring the f>h>0 rule have a religious theme, words that you would only expect to hear from the local priest's pulpit.
As for “st” and the definitive article in Italian, I think it is merely euphonic; lo/gli are used in many cases when the noun starts with 2 consonants (lo gnomo, lo spreco), or a “z”, which is then pronounced geminated (lo zaino)
You blew my mind with italian vowel/consonant lenght combination: as a native speaker I had never noticed it! I spent 5 minutes trying it out!
Another point about vowels- in eastern catalan unstressed o -> u, unstressed e -> a, and generally in catalan there are open and closed a, e and o, which come from their own sound shifts
awesome video!! as a spanish native speaker, learner of catalan and italian, and forgetter of french, here’s some tidbits i’ve noticed while studying the languages:
1. latin [ks] develops differently in every language, though it tends to either simplify or palatalize. in catalan it very regularly turns to [ʃ] (‘eix’ from axem, ‘maixella’ from māxillam). in spanish it initially turned to [ʃ] before developming further into [x], probably with [ç] as an intermediary (‘eje’, ‘mejilla’); the actual realization of it can kinda vary, but in my variety it’s much closer to [h]. in italian i’ve seen it be both [s] (‘asse’) and [z] (‘esercito’, from exercitum), but, as with all romance languages, i imagine there was a lot of influence from regional languages into the standard. when it comes to borrowings it tends to be kept as [ks] in catalan and spanish (māximus -> màxim, máximo) but gets italianized in, well, italian (massimo)
2. the written cluster ‘ns’ disappears in every language (spōnss-> sp. esposa, cat. esposa, it. sposa), but in spanish and catalan it seems to have been readded through written influence, which didn’t happen in italian: thus giving us sp. construcción and cat. construcció, but it. costruzione
3. the shift from ‘LI + vowel’ into [x] in spanish, though rare interlinguistically, it’s pretty common intralinguistically! it happens in molliāre -> mojar (see cat. mullar), paleam -> paja (cat. palla, it. paglia) and meliōrem -> mejor (cat. millor, it. migliore/meglio). something similar happens with the cluster [kl] intervocalically, when it happens as a result of vowel reduction: speculum -> spec’lu -> espejo (cat. espill (valencià), it. specchio), oculum -> oc’lu -> ojo (cat. ull, it. occhio). it’s a very useful sound change, insofar as it helps in spotting archaic words or borrowings, such as ‘muralla’ or ‘batalla’ instead of ‘*muraja’ and ‘*bataja’.
4. the exact sound value of ‘ll’ in spanish varies a lot, even when taking yeísmo into account. i say it as [dʒ], for both ‘y’ and ‘ll’; i’ve heard it been said as [ʝ], [ʎ], [j], [ʒ], [ʃ], and more. i believe a similar process happens in catalan and especially italian: the teacher who taught me couldn’t pronounce ‘gli’ correctly, per her own admission.
5. lots and lots of excepcions!! there are many “minor” languages spread through the whole romance-speaking world, and local varieties are also very influencial when it comes to day to day speech.
overall an amazing video!! really thrilled to see a vast topic covered as cohesively and succintly: these ~20 minutes were basically an introductory semester to romance linguistics insofar as phonetics are concerned lol
The official Catalan flag is NOT the so-called "estelada-blava": this latter one is a heavily politically-connoted one.
Estelada flag is the BASED flag of Catalonia 💯💯
@@accounts128
Nothing more false. The truth of what I wrote remains.
Most Catalan native speakers do dark L, I still do. In fact, when Spanish people mock our accent they always note our Ls.
Yeah that was weird because many people from most areas of Catalonia I've met speak with that l, even when they are speaking Spanish, and in Valencian I always heard it too, but they don't usually have it in their accent when speaking Spainish
Lovely video! Latin/Romance philology is definitely the linguistic history that I wish to specialize in personally before moving on to other language families, with Greek/Hellenic being the exception.
I'm glad you exist
Fricative ❤😂 i love you
I'm glad you've set the story straight on vulgar latin as simply a development of what was standardised in classical latin. I see so many misinformed people trying to claim that classical latin is "constructed" and was never spoken, or that vulgar latin was somehow a language that developed in parallel from old latin.
16:53 In Portuguese, it's more complex than that.
While it's true that some "pl" changed to "pr" (e.g. "platea" > "praça", "plata" > "prata"), in many other cases "pl" changed to "ch" (e.g. "pluvia" > "chuva", "plumbum" > "chumbo", "planus" > "chão").
Regarding "gl", in some cases it also changed to "gr" (e.g. "glus, glutis" > "grude").
I don't know if I was distracted, but it seems you forgot the cluster "fl". Here, again, two different outcomes occurred in Portuguese: in some cases "fl" changed to "fr" (e.g. "flaccus" > "fraco"), but in some other cases "fl" also changed to "ch" ("flama" > "chama").
In Romanian, /kt/ → /pt/ was part of a larger shift of velars becoming labials before alveolar consonants.
This also affected the cluster written as ⟨gn⟩ which was pronounced [ŋn] in (late?) Latin, which in Romanian shifted to /mn/ (as seen in words like "semn" from Latin "signum"). ⟨gn⟩ actually underwent some interesting and significant changes in the other romance languages too.
Brazilian here. The glottal fricative [h] has not disappeared from our language at all! Although the letter H is completely silent in Portuguese, in many regions, it is the default sound for the letter R in the start or words and in VrC position. I noticed that in those cases you wrote it as a velar fricative [x] and [ɣ].
Little note just in case, the flag you put on the thumbnail is not the one from the catalan community but the independist one lol.
So interesting!
This is the exact video I've been waiting for in my life
by the way some dialects of br portuguese like mine pronounce [x] as [h] in the nucleus of a syllable if the nucleus is "r"
some dialects also use liquid r, [ʁ], [ɾ] or just nothing in places where [x] would be used in "r" in syllable codas
Talking by dropping consonnants at the end in French, many know that the final r in the end of verbs ending in -er has been dropped a long time ago but in some dialects of French, it is also happenning to other final r's at the end of verbs ending in -ir and -oir
Interesting and good video.
Just one thing, that's not the flag of Catalonia, but that of the separatists. The flag of Catalonia only has red and yellow stripes.
I really like the Romanian ea and oa diphthongs for some reason.
It seems that Romanian also had an /l/ -> /r/ shift at some point because Latin Sol became Romanian Soare.
Yeah u always noticed that about Romanian and it sounds nice. I think they are only found in Romanian which makes them very unique to the Romanian language.
This shift happened directly from Proto Indo European to Romanian through Thraco-Dacian. Romanian soare derives from Proto Indo European *seh2ul- (sun)
Romanian soare is cognat with Sanskrit suvar (sun) and Sanskrit surya (sun)
This is awesome. Wake me up when the Slavic version drops
11:56 you are soo good ,i’m not going to stop you
That’s the separatist flag of Catalonia. That’s not the flag of Catalonia… it’s like 🟨🟥🟨🟥🟨
I’m Sicilian and I’ll tell you our dialect preserved a lot of stuff from latin, like the nasal n sound and the dark, l even the i+vowel like the word “maiu” which means may, also in sicilian scudo is scutu, this is so trippy, even the way tend to put the verb at the end of the phrase like the Romans did, we only do it when replying to a question though, for example if someone asked me “where were you?” I’d say “a casa era” meaning I was home, but if I weren’t replying I’d say “era a casa”
Nice, thorough explanations! Regarding Ibero-Romance reflexes of Latin stop+l clusters: There's some confusion caused by multiple semi-learned forms that (re)introduced r- and l-clusters into Portuguese. Both Latin /pl, kl/ actually turned into Portuguese "ch" /ʃ/ (corresponding to Spanish "ll" /ʝ/) (compare Lat. plēnum > Port. cheio, Span. lleno; Lat. plānus > Port. chão, Span. llano; Lat. clāvem > Port. chave, Span. llave; Lat. clamare > Port. chamar, Span. llamar), while Latin /bl, gl/ both likely became /l/ in Portuguese and Spanish (Lat. blastēmāre > Port. & Span. lastimar; Lat. glattīre > Port. & Span. latir; Lat. glāream > Port. leira), though the data here is admittedly lacking (perhaps because the cluster simplifications removed lexical contrasts and were ultimately dropped from the Ibero-Romance lexicon). Semi-learned Latin forms with /pr, br, kr, gr/ and /pl, bl, kl, gl/ were then re-introduced into Portuguese in such words as praia (< Lat. plagiam), branco (< Lat. blancum), cravo (< Lat. clavum), grude (< Lat. glūten) as well as pluma (< Lat. plūmam), blasfemar (< Lat. blasphēmāre), claro (< Lat. clārum), gládio (< Lat. gladium), etc. An illustrative example is the Portuguese triplet "chegar" ('to arrive'), "pregar" ('to nail'), and "(ex)plicar" ('to explain' < 'to fold out'), which all originated from Latin "plicāre" ('to fold') but the first form was inherited directly from Latin, whereas the latter two forms were borrowed back into Portuguese at different points in time.
Ik its a small detail, but i noticed a slight mispronounciation in the romanian word for wind. It's not a big issue, but you didn't pronounce the 't' at the end
Also for anyone wondering abt the romanian article problem, we have the words "o" and "un" which both mean "a" but are gender specific however the problem comes with the word for "the". In spanish there are the words lo la los las but in romanian there is no word for it, it just changes the ending, e.g in spanish "autobús" becomes "el autobús" but in romanian "autobuz" becomes "autobuzul" im pretty sure the most common endings for these are the adding of the -ul for masculine words and the changing from the letter "ă" to "a" if the word is feminine
17:19 The word "blanc" does exist in Romanian, but it's mainly used in writing, as in "blank space". Also, worth mentioning that the word "țară" means country now in Romanian, and that hour is "oră". "oară" is "time" as in 1st, 2nd, xth time ("prima oară", "a doua oară", etc.)
Still great video, keep it up!
it’d be cool to see a video like this abt the evolution of sounds in creole languages, either from you or someone else
It seems like Catalan is like a combination of Spanish, Italian and French
French is a combination of Italian with Germanic sounds
Portuguese is a combination of French and Spanish
Italian is a combination of French and Spanish
Romanian is a combination of Italian and Slavic sounds
Spanish is a combination of Italian and Portuguese!
Read about "dialectal continuum"
Sardinian is a mix of Italian and Portuguese
And Romansh is a mix of french, italian and high german languages
Excellent
7:53 You palatalized the "L" in Portuguese "Leão". There is no such palatalization in Portuguese.
Romanian here, you did a great job on the pronunciation (especially with cincisprezece!), but there are words like făină, vânt and noapte which you got off, făina is more like fuh-i-nuh , vânt has a hard t, like you could say it vântâ, and noapte is more like nuapte, not napte. Great video though! I really enjoyed it
Phonetic alphabet is so great because i speak one of these languages natively and you prononciation is spot on, and you're clearly an actual linguist 😅
A part of the shifts that happened to Romanian also appear in latin borrowings into Albanian from what I've read.
This is yet another argument that is used to prove albanian does actually come frome illyrian as they believe (nationalizationnof the state) but from thracian or dacian. (May Shqiperi come from the name of the thracian city of Skopje?
Thank you that you include romanian too. Cause many chanels forget about this language or for them is not interested or they say romanian is not a latin language, which is crazy. But hour în romanian is oră.
Great video! Could you please list the sources you've used for making this video? I'd love to read some more on this :)
I sort of just used my vocabulary from the respective languages and compared them… outside of that, Wiktionary where I had gaps
ayyyy lets go
latin /pl/ also became /ʃ/ in portuguese! that's how we have prato and chato as cognates (spanish plato) and chão which is cognate to plano (italian piano)