I think one of the reasons fundamentalism keeps its followers so separate from anything „worldly“ is so they are not able to realize that there are spiritual experiences outside of (their version of) Christianity that are just as fulfilling as the ones they are claiming are the voice or the spirit of god. I have felt that inner peace and joy of connection at rock concerts, in yoga classes, singing and playing (very worldly) music, even while doing pole dance, which would 100% not fit into a fundamentalist view of the world. It is almost as if the experience is a normal brain and body function instead of an outside holy spirit
My ex was raised as a JW and boy did it affect him. The ‘ecosystem’ is chock full of projection and fear. It’s very difficult to watch for me bec I am an atheist and tho raised as Catholic I never believed really. As Chris hitchens said ‘religion poisons everything!’
This reminds me of something an Ex-Mormon acquaintance of mine said. He told me that at a certain point in his advancement through their ranks he was required to talk about a personal experience of hearing god specifically calling him to take on the next rank. He said he tried and tried, but he had never heard god speaking to him before. He went to his father and asked how he was supposed to get god to give him his calling, and his father said something along the lines of: "Well, you don't ACTUALLY have to HEAR god talking. It's more of a feeling, usually." That's exactly when he knew he'd been lied to his entire life. Since that was specifically what he had to attest to. He thought everyone else who had achieved that rank had actually heard god speaking, including his father who'd always claimed as much up until this point.
Tons of Christians only believe in God because someone they look up to believes in God of course they don't realise that person also only believes for that reason.
It funny. My old church would say its not feeling, u dont hear a voice nor see it. Lol it by obedience n faith lmao. But pastor would say he heard n was shown the word of god for the day. Funny i tell u
holy shit i do not miss the feeling of trying to distinguish between what was god and what was just my thoughts, constantly feeling like i had to lie about experiences i was never quite sure i had because of what i thought it would say about my faith walk to just admit i had never heard god in the way everyone else seemed to
"...like a puzzle I was always trying to fit together, like a code I was trying to decipher. It was making something out of nothing because I was so desperate..." Ex-fundie from Texas here and THIS is why I think I see folks raised this way seamlessly transition to conspiracy theorists. Just my observation. I appreciate your videos and how I wish I'd had access to something like this 30+ years ago when I began my de-con journey. Best wishes to you. ❤
Jerri, your comment is almost exactly my experience. I was raised 7 Day Creationist and it wasn't until I took a class on conspiracy theory philosophy in college that I started looking back at Ken Ham and Rush Limbaugh and thinking "hang on...". And sure enough, my parents and I no longer talk because they're so far down the funnel.
One of the biggest judgements I've faced, as an ex-Christian, is that I was never really a Christian; I was never really "saved" or had faith, or had a real, personal relationship with my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. The truth is, I know 110% what it's like to feel that way.
Yes but you know better now. I tell people that’s what I used to think too. They don’t want to understand because then they might actually have to consider what you have to say. There is a lot of self brainwashing in Christianity. They teach us when we are young how to corral our thoughts.
if Christianity is a religion of love, as it claims, how on earth can these statements be reconciled or seen as anything other than toxic judgment, shaming, de-legitimizing and psychologically cruel!? how is anyone to ever say for anyone else what another person's most inner experience is, never mind to speak with authority about it! clearly they are threatened that if your experience was 'real' and you still left, than that means that the same could happen to them! well to quote the bible: "by their fruits shall ye know them"! they may SAY love, but if their actions are the opposite, believe the actions rather than the words, as the real demonstration of who they are, and where they are at on their 'spiritual journey'! we can bless them with compassion (for indeed they are fear based), and let them go, knowing our own truth, for ourselves (and that is enough). thank you for your post!
I never felt like the bible was a love letter to me at all, and I don't know how a sober reading of it could come off that way! its full of some absolutely horrifying violent dictums of 'god' telling the people of Israel to commit genocide against the original occupants of Canaan (just one example), of 'non-believers' and 'sinners' burning in hell, and terrifying threatening verses like "avoid the desires of the flesh for it is because of these that the wrath of god is coming"! a love letter from god? I sure didn't feel this from reading 'his word', and the more I didn't feel the love, the more I felt like something was wrong with me, because 'everyone else' seemed to be 'feeling it', and proclaiming it, yet I didn't feel it at all! talk about cognitive dissonance!
I left the 'born again bubble' as it was messing with my thoughts..I never knew if it was the 'Holy spirit' speaking to me, the 'devil' or my thoughts..trying to decipher this madness made me finally leave this madness..As well as a 'fundie' I would have looked for confirmation bias to reinforce my belief when talking to people..There's much more to tell but I'm sure Elly you had covered enough...
Yeah, I remember all the stuff about how Jesus is my best friend, and the old "it's a relationship, not a religion" cliche. How Jesus never really clearly "spoke" to me. It was always vague hunches about what the Bible would say, or what a workbook that I bought for $15 would say. And that verse in your diary thingy .. "cast your cares on the lord and he will sustain you." Imagine if you had a friend say that to you. "Awesome, so I've got this problem, can you take it?" "...." "Sorry, I didn't quite catch that." "[random bible verse]" Gee, thanks.
I trusted Christ that my Sins would be forgiven. I understand the relationship aspect, BUT Not as most other Evangelicals, and Charismatics define this. I'd rather be saved and know it, with or without any 'voice of God' through dreams visions... It drives me crazy when brethren will tell me of their dream and vision . Apostle Paul was reticent to share his . I'd rather be Saved without the voice of GOD , the Silence of GOD, than to hear from false spirits which unfortunately most of Evangelical Christendom has heed to
This is so fascinating, I have an imaginary friend who’s stuck around since my childhood as a coping mechanism, gives me a way to talk to myself without feeling like it’s only my own perspective, and it’s fascinating to me just how similar “God” is to my imaginary friend in this theology, a voice that only you can hear who gives advice and lets you feel confident in your actions that you have been told you should not be so confident in without that voice. I really wish that having an imaginary friend was the commonly socially acceptable version of this. I absolutely do hear this imaginary friend’s voice in my head, but there is always awareness that it’s just my voice with a silly accent, it makes me love myself more, because I love this imaginary friend, and knowing he’s just someone I created makes it nicer to me than if I thought he was something outside of myself.
An atheist friend of mine once remarked that the people to speak personally with God about little things, (“Let me get a good parking spot, God,”) was the epitome of arrogance, that in this whole universe, God is going to personally help you out with decisions and little blessings when there’s so much else going on with the world. “I’d like to help these starving children or these people on a collapsing bridge but Larry doesn’t want to sit at a red light.”
Omg I always thought this too! It sickened me when people would share these little blessings stories. I would think of all the people in the pit of utter despair… but god, in his infinite power, helped YOU get your coffee a few minutes earlier. Gag.
@@carolramsey3393 for some reason, I read that “Gag” as Greg and for some reason I found the addition of “Greg” at the end of your rant hilarious. I had a neighbor who was an extremely skilled artist and whenever someone praised her work, “Oh, I didn’t do that; God did it.” Ok, I get that you’re trying to be modest, but if it was God, than anyone could do it. Seriously, just say thank you and move on
Right here with you, girl. Why didn’t we see the problem with the fact that all of it was so hard (ex: your journaling about abiding and trusting). It was exhausting. If he’s such a great big wonderful God, and WANTS us to know him…then why the fork was it all so elusive and esoteric and hard?
Very interesting that your experiences of thinking you were hearing from God felt positive at the time. The couple times I thought I was hearing God scared the shit out of me and filled me with hideous guilt. It was like getting a terse fragment from a cold, bitter being that thought everything I did was wrong and actively wanted me to remove all of my autism hyperfixations from my life. The pivotal point was praying in church in my late teens, asking earnestly to hear from the Holy Spirit, and hearing that voice say, "Stop going to deviantART", which rent my heart into pieces because I was just OBSESSED with visiting that website and looking at fan art of my favorite video games. I tried to make myself do that... but I just couldn't, and I felt like such a shithead and convinced myself that I had for sure fucked up big time and was for sure going to hell for this transgression. I went through the motions for years afterward, but came to believe that Calvinism was actually real, I must not have been one of the elect and that there was no stopping my downward trajectory, so I had better at least enjoy what time I had on this planet. Needless to say, I am so glad I'm unlearning all that dumb shit now as an adult, and I am so glad I'm not the only one who mistook the mental voice placed in my noggin by my hyper-controlling parents for the divine. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences.
Wow. I totally know this feeling. You are so brave to share journal excerpts like this. I was recently doing some decluttering and decided to look through my old journals to see if there were any snippets of wisdom that might still apply to my life. But it was just the same old scriptures and prayer requests and begging for forgiveness throughout, so I started just throwing them away. You figured it out a lot younger than I did. Much love.
thank you SO much for this! hearing your account of 'hearing' god, helps ease the distress I felt at 'not hearing god'. when people would talk about how god/ Jesus spoke to them, I just felt SO badly about myself, because I could never say I had an experience like that! my biggest feeling from my childhood of being DEEPLY entrenched in Christianity, was of being a FAILURE! no matter how much I read my bible (and I did so every day), went to church, read Christian authors, went to bible study, talked with pastors, etc., I still always felt like such an incredible FRAUD, like I was acting a part that actually didn't feel real inside of me. I felt tremendous SHAME over this disconnect, and tried harder. I did NOT feel god's love for me, I did not feel Jesus was with me, or was my 'friend', I only felt badly about myself, and this shame, the feeling that there was something deeply flawed about me, grew and grew. I always WISHED that I had your experiences of 'hearing god's voice', which, like you said, would have been SO reassuring! NOT hearing it confirmed my worst fears about myself, and I felt more and more despair. I felt myself to be a sham. I couldn't 'evangelize' to anyone, because I didn't feel fully convicted myself. In time I couldn't even pray anymore, because I imagined god was disgusted with me, and my repeated 'sinning' (making out with my boyfriend), then repenting, then doing it over and over again. what torment this was! and the sad thing is that this torment lives in me still today. though I left the church intellectually a LONG time ago, I still have a great difficulty with 'prayer' and quickly shut down and feel shame and anxiety overwhelm me. what about you? do you pray at all anymore? have you found an 'alternate spirituality' or do you feel 100% peace with being 'god-free'? if you've done a video on this already, let me know. and thank you SO much for your courage to do what you are doing here- I really appreciate it!
I don’t consider the way I was raised to be fundamentalism, but we were in church every Sunday and I spent many nights during my childhood asking God to make me believe again because I had found myself having a doubtful thought and was worried I would go to hell. My grandparents were and still are heavily involved in Assemblies of God, and their youth group indoctrinated me into what I now know are some heavily problematic, racist, homophobic, misogynistic beliefs. I realize I myself am in the process of deconstructing. I still believe in God, but not the god I was brought up to pray to. I have my own spiritual walk that in no way embraces any of what I was taught growing up. I recently learned about things like parentification, which I had never heard of until I saw it spoken about in a video by a therapist talking about the Duggars. I realize so many of these harmful things are things I just thought were normal. Your videos have really helped me to see that not only was this belief system not okay, but I don’t want my children anywhere near it.
I have come to love your channel. I think that, even within the atheist community, religious trauma isn't talked about directly as often as it should be, and yours is a great voice to lead to that very difficult subject. If you don't mind my saying, you seem like the kind of person who tends to find the beauty, even in dark places, and I think that's wonderful.
Everything about this hit so hard. My parents identify as Catholic, but I'm learning bit by bit that no... they didn't adhere to traditional Catholic beliefs. They believed in charismatic fundamentalism. I knew they were young earth creationists, and I thought that was normal for Catholics. But the more I learn about your experiences and the experiences of other exvangelicals, the more I realize that I fit right in with y'all. Thank you so much for sharing your personal experiences with the world. I, for one, very much needed the comfort and validation of hearing that I was not alone in experiencing all that I did, and as I explore my religious trauma, it's nice to feel that somewhere out there, there is someone who deeply understands what I went through, and sympathizes with my journey.
welcome to this wonderful club of 'fundie survivors' - so wonderful that we live in a time of the internet and vlogs and utube, so that we can find each other this way!
I relate so, so much to everything you said in this video. I had an almost identical kind of relationship with God, where I'd listen for him "in my heart" and feel a sort of internal confirmation that I interpreted as being from God. I really appreciated the thoughts you shared at the end about your "relationship to that voice" you once believed was God. Thanks so much for sharing this video!
I'm curious about what college you attended. Rather, what their take was on homosexuality. I went to Rochester College (2003-2005) before transferring to a state school. At RC, we had to sign a pledge as part of our admission that had a bunch of campus rules, one of them being that we would not commit any homosexual acts or we would be kicked out of school. I still get solicitations from them for donations, 17 years later, in my dead name (I'm trans and queer). Of course, we had an ex-gay come to Chapel one Wednesday and tell us how, even if you can't experience attraction to "the opposite sex," you can be abstinent for Jesus. So, at 19, I was praying gratitude that my temptation from Satan was just that I was bi, because I could still serve him without having to be abstinent. Ugh. It's no wonder I didn't figure out I was trans until I was in my 30s! And don't get me started on purity culture! I'm so grateful to my chosen family, to science, to the queer activists and educators who came before me. That poor kid; I was so lost.
Thank you so much for sharing this. I am taken aback a little of how accurately you've described my personal experience of having a relationship with god as a teenager. I grew up in a messianic Jews community, but it was just some sort of Christianity (fundamentalist? Pentecostal? I don't even know what each one means exactly) with extra flavors. Even now, 18 years after I left, sometimes I feel like this weird and unacceptable part of my life can't be shared with others and if shared, I'd surely be misunderstood. So listening to you speak about everything so openly really helps the process of accepting this part of my past, that for so long I had to keep in a sealed box. Thank you so much for you bravery. I'm sure that it's not easy and I hope that this is healing for you. (Sorry if my English is weird, it's not my first language)
I'm so glad you shared this! I relate so much! I too would "talk" to God and hear a voice in my head. I think it was just a "super-ego" part of me that I could hear in a detached way. In essence, it was my own thoughts. But it was so validating hearing that someone else had a similar experience!
It's so interesting hearing you talk about spiritual experiences. I was raised with no religion and still don't believe yet I had very similar moments of spiritual feeling revelation as a teenager. It seems like a feature of the teen brain somehow!
When I was catholic, I would struggle with the fact that prayers felt pointless. I couldn’t talk to god like others seemed to. One day, I had this very vivid dream that I was walking on a staircase with Jesus. I remember him telling me that he loved me and that my experience is my own or something to that effect. I think it wasn’t too long after that when I let go of religion. These days I’m pagan and consider myself a child of Freya. I feel her love and presence the same way many Christians feel their god.
Your journal was very similar to mine growing up. I was searching for parental love through a very dysfunctional relationship with a deity. This relationship caused me lots of religious trauma.
ah yes, if our own fathers are ^&&*ed up, then how on earth can we have a healthy 'relationship' with a 'heavenly father', as the two are so merged from our earliest experiences, and our experience of the one painfully informs our (imagined) experience with the other!
I recognize (now) that what I felt as the holy spirit or God speaking to me was elevation emotions. I was rarely able to achieve it without witnessing an act (either in my head or visually). I was never able to separate my internal monologue from the words of God, it left me so broken... Why wouldn't God speak to me, like he did others? Since then, I've just settled on that people think "internal dialogue if it was righteous in nature=God unrighteous=satans temptations". Sorry still binge watching and feel so connected to something in every video I feel the need to comment!
Thank you for uploading. I’ve been wondering might be going on for a friend of mine who is becoming fundamentalist. What you said reminds me of the Freudian idea of the “superego” - the internalized programming of childhood authority figures, such as parents, churches, schools, etc. I think many of us think those internalized messages are God’s voice.
This video touches me so much. I am healing from relational, attachment trauma too. The method I have is Internal Family Systems (IFS). I wonder if you have looked into this method at all. What you describe about hearing voices is so very similar to how IFS sees the world. Hearing voices in IFS is actually completely natural and one of the methods of listening inside. I know that might sounds crazy, but IFS is actually a method of trauma healing that is catching tremendously over the last few years, even though it was first identified in the early 80s. In IFS different parts of us take on different roles to do different jobs for us. I think it could be really interesting to look into IFS.
Part of the reason this phenomenon specifically damaged me, was that at times I was encouraged by other people that I was hearing the true voice of god, but then when I was alone and people weren’t putting that idea into my head, I wouldn’t be able to feel or hear anything from god/Jesus and then I would hate myself, wonder what I did, wonder if I’ll ever hear from him again. Turns out looking back every SINGLE time I “heard” god other people were involved and basically telling me so.
Thanks for continuing to share your experiences. I'm in the process of deconstructing and greatly struggling on how to interact with my still fundamental Christian family and find comfort in the things you share. Also would love hear any advice on how to maintain relationships with family after leaving Christianity
Thank you for sharing, that sounds really tough. I'm not sure I have much advice to give, but I can absolutely empathize! It's something I’ve been trying to figure out how to navigate, too. The Dirty Rotten Church Kids podcast was talking about this in a recent episode, and they suggested making sure you put up boundaries, whatever that looks like for you. (For example, if you want to explain to your family what you're going through, you can. Or you can stay off the topic of religion and faith if you prefer.) I think it’s important to remember that there’s no rule book, and you ultimately get to decide what works best for you. That can be really freeing coming from an environment where everything had rules, but it can also be overwhelming to have that choice. I wish you all the best in your deconstruction and in your relationships with your family!
THANK YOU for talking about Francine Rivers! As a person who has been sexually abused her book “Redeeming Love” was downright triggering to me and all my Christian friends and family members thought that it should be healing to me. Then multiple people have wanted me to watch the movie with them 🤢
One especially lonely night when I was in college, I went out for a walk on a cold, windy Kansas evening. After walking for an hour or so, a voice in my head said “There is no end of the road.” At the time I didn’t give it much thought but afterwards I spent a good deal of time trying to figure out what it meant. Years later I would say, without me interpreting it, it doesn’t mean anything at all.
This hits so hard because it's something I still struggle with even now that I'm no longer a Christian. It's funny how the "voice of god" often sounds exactly like guilt for not constantly putting your own needs in the backburner to suit others. Please your mother, please your father, serve your brothers and sisters, please the church elders but you must never want or need anything for yourself. That's sinful and selfish. What kind of life is that?
We also have a charismatic group here where I live. They're too having constantly all kinds of prophesies. Still not so bad that nothing good comes out of it. A fellow I know was an addict and became clean after joining that so called church. What comes to the constant ranting with prophecies, I for even once should've asked "How much does that prophet of yours drink?". Quite often those prophecies sounded as if a career drunkard with paranoid schizophrenia symptoms would be searching everywhere for eavesdropping devices.
Heavy alcohol use can soften the brain so much that people become sorta kinda spiritual. Or slightly psychotic. They can latch onto all sorts of nonsense just like they latched on to drink.
So I sometimes experience what I'm pretty sure are mild auditory hallucinations when I'm exhausted. It's very similar to hearing a regular sound except, because it's just in my head, it doesn't make my eardrums vibrate so I don't really hear/feel it. It's usually random words, though sometimes it's a phrase I'd heard recently or more abstract noises. It's exactly like how you described hearing God's voice. I'm not saying that's what was happening to you, I just thought it was interesting.
Just curious, do you feel like the words you felt God was telling you were bad? How did you discern what was God and what was your subconscious? Or do you think it was all your imagination? - I know you mentioned extending the vacation thing was bad but were most of the messages helpful? --I ask because I have had times where I feel I was clearly told by God to do something and then I get confirmation. Like really solid confirmation. It's so rare. I love that feeling so much that I look for it all of the time and I think many times I am pretending to hear Gods voice about things but it is really coming from my wants, or imagination.
As an agnostic, I find this fascinating and sad at the same time. I somehow stumbled onto your video and I am sad that you lost that connection to God. Do you feel an absence in your life now? Just curious about that. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Lots of kids keep diaries and I’m sure many of their parents would take a peek if they had the opportunity. Do Fundie parents respect their child’s privacy when it comes to journals? Yours is so much more than recording daily events and crushes. Would parents read the journals as a means to track their spiritual journey? This would certainly impact what a person could write.
Omg i keep getting devotionals for christmas and i never even look at them. At first i asked for one bc i thought it would help me understand the bible more but it just doesnt do that
Aren’t fundamentalists also obsessed with being able to talk in tongues especially after being “baptized” in the Holy Spirit? Because I remember going to some huge gathering of Christian fundamentalists when I was attending a private Christian school as a field trip and all these people surrounding me praying for my soul or something until I started to speak in tongues. Nothing actually happened to me and it was starting to get really awkward as these people stared at me so I just started to make random noises to make them stop whatever it was that they were doing to me and it worked. Im not even sure if I was meant to speak in tongues because technically I have a very limited basic understanding of the Taiwanese dialect of Chinese due to my family being originally from Taiwan and I already knew some simple Spanish words. One boy that came on the field trip was in tears speaking in tongues and it seemed like everyone else was expecting something similar to happen to me so I just made up stuff because I didn’t want them to think that something was wrong with me.
It's amazing that people actually believe that God is focused like a laser on helping them do their hair while children starve to death all over the world.
I've heard many stories of religious people's brains developing a sort of thought-program of god or Jesus or whoever due to the belief they should be hearing them. I'm guessing that's what happened here, the fact you believed you would hear god made your brain fill in the gaps and construct a program which would speak as him beyond your consciousness.
Saddened by your experience. I'll try to give my sincere thoughts and experience The few times I sincerely believe I heard the Voice of God, the HOLY SPIRIT The Moment I understood the Grace of the Gospel ( 1 Cor 15, Rom 4:5, Eph 1:13 ) and merely Believed, Trusted in the Blood of Christ as the sole Reason for my Salvation, apart from any merit ( works) . My One any Only Salvation Moment ( 1974 ) In college, ( 1982 ) against by better discernment, I sought a 'tongues' experience ( a form of false mysticism ) , believing that this was part of a deeper life in my relationship to Christ. I found out that I encountered a false jesus, false spirt , being that my previous assurance of salvation was questioned. In other words, the spirit of Grace I received as a teen, was later compromised and a vexation spirit tormented my emotions. I believe there are many people who get saved, but subsequently get vexed by false doctrine ( mysticism ) which much of the Charismatic teaching is . I never met a Charismatic who can affirm the most Blessed , Comforting truth of Eternal Security , despite their boasting in the Holy Spirit, Tongues, Dreams, and Visions. From my many years of study of scripture, observation, listening to testimonies, I believe there is widespread confusion on the simplicity of Salvation, and lack of discernment of the best of Chrisitan leaders in our day. Frankly, All I desired is the Solid Rock of Assurance of Salvation ( Luke 10:20) . Without that I'm worthless in ministering the Gospel of Christ to anyone else . ( My brother in law, raised in Church of GOD denomination , once said, 'Why Get Saved, if one can loose it afterwards" ) I went through the same guilt you had from Francine Rivers. I don't know much about this author but not all Chrisitan women agree with her Bottom Line, Not Everything taught by popular Chrisitan preachers / authored is of GOD Hearing the voice of GOD may not be what most teachers say it is. I would say the Silence of GOD is far better, IF the Voices of 'God' are counterfeit FYI th-cam.com/video/HKHWuUtrcaY/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/UYP_EvMeIuk/w-d-xo.html
I trusted Christ that my Sins would be forgiven. I understand the relationship aspect, BUT Not as most other Evangelicals, and Charismatics define this. I'd rather be saved and know it, with or without any 'voice of God' through dreams visions... It drives me crazy when brethren will tell me of their dream and vision . Apostle Paul was reticent to share his . I'd rather be Saved without the voice of GOD , the Silence of GOD, than to hear from false spirits which unfortunately most of Evangelical Christendom has heed to
Whatever Trauma you have faced is real Trauma. With the videos posted, can perceive, it must have been very traumatizing. But if it all amounts to saying that there is no GOD, then you are moving to other extreme. Since you are able to analyze things so well, why don't you to strip the disappointments/ actual expectations/ experience as christian kid/ the way you are nurtured. looking at all of this separately will make one understand oneself better.
Looking at it separately is how we notice that "god" is just the placeholder used instead of 'we don't know how that works'. Turns out it's healthier to say, "I don't know," rather than, "god did it." There is still a lot to learn so we might as well be honest and say, "we don't know, yet, and we're trying to find out." Looking at it separately is an excellent sugestion because it provides greater clarity about how religion is a method of control within a seemingly unexplained world, and, about the abuses specifically used by religion to enforce it.
I’m just wondering if you don’t believe in God, what DO you believe? I don’t think it was God’s fault that you misunderstood Him. That was probably partly you’re upbringing and partly your desire for validation. That’s just my 2 cents. I wouldn’t let subjective experiences invalidate God. Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water based on experience alone. I DO believe we know the path God wants us on by reading and obeying His word. There really is no magic in that.
My “theistic opinion” of what I’ve seen on her channel so far is that fundamentalism destroyed her ability to connect with God in typical religious ways (praying, going to church, reading the Bible, believing in God at all) but that doesn’t mean God isn’t in her life. If God is real, then God doesn’t disappear when someone stops believing. I would say she is still experiencing God through her relationships with other people, through her kindness and efforts to do good, and through her experiences in the world / as part of the world (since God is everywhere and everything). I don’t mean to discredit anyone who doesn’t believe in God, this is just how someone who believes in God would interpret a story like hers. God doesn’t care whether you use the word “God” or read the Bible; as long as you engage with the world and are kind to others, you’re doing the exact same thing as a (healthy/non-fundie) believer but just using different vocabulary. It’s no loss if you have to stop thinking of things like nature, goodness, unity, and compassion as “God”; it doesn’t matter as long as you do think of and interact with those things.
As a believer since birth, reading His book and learning God's complete character terrified me. People said good, a God-fearing Christian should be properly afraid. I learned about "The Cycle of Abuse" and realized the deity in the story creates the opposite of feeling safe, secure, and loved as I am. It grooms people to accept abuse, thinking that it's love. The final realization was that the amazing feelings attributed to religious beliefs can be felt outside of religious context. It's just that religion claims to be the source and trains you to avoid experiencing the feelings outside of religious context at all costs to avoid eternal torm*nt. Looking at religious beliefs separately from the rest of life demonstrates that the beliefs aren't real. Life can be peaceful, wonderful, and profoundly meaningful - all on it's own.
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I think one of the reasons fundamentalism keeps its followers so separate from anything „worldly“ is so they are not able to realize that there are spiritual experiences outside of (their version of) Christianity that are just as fulfilling as the ones they are claiming are the voice or the spirit of god. I have felt that inner peace and joy of connection at rock concerts, in yoga classes, singing and playing (very worldly) music, even while doing pole dance, which would 100% not fit into a fundamentalist view of the world. It is almost as if the experience is a normal brain and body function instead of an outside holy spirit
There is research on this that confirms it
This is a fascinating testimony revealing how a believer creates their own religious ecosystem, where all sorts of events are seen as signs of God.
That's a really interesting way to put it- a "religious ecosystem." Thanks for sharing!
My ex was raised as a JW and boy did it affect him. The ‘ecosystem’ is chock full of projection and fear. It’s very difficult to watch for me bec I am an atheist and tho raised as Catholic I never believed really. As Chris hitchens said ‘religion poisons everything!’
This reminds me of something an Ex-Mormon acquaintance of mine said. He told me that at a certain point in his advancement through their ranks he was required to talk about a personal experience of hearing god specifically calling him to take on the next rank. He said he tried and tried, but he had never heard god speaking to him before. He went to his father and asked how he was supposed to get god to give him his calling, and his father said something along the lines of: "Well, you don't ACTUALLY have to HEAR god talking. It's more of a feeling, usually." That's exactly when he knew he'd been lied to his entire life. Since that was specifically what he had to attest to. He thought everyone else who had achieved that rank had actually heard god speaking, including his father who'd always claimed as much up until this point.
Thank you for sharing that story!
Tons of Christians only believe in God because someone they look up to believes in God of course they don't realise that person also only believes for that reason.
Charismatics are not Christians.
It funny. My old church would say its not feeling, u dont hear a voice nor see it. Lol it by obedience n faith lmao. But pastor would say he heard n was shown the word of god for the day. Funny i tell u
@@davidlafleche1142 : All christian denominations are bs - Charismatics are insane too.
Your openness is such a kind gift to humanity. Thank you.
holy shit i do not miss the feeling of trying to distinguish between what was god and what was just my thoughts, constantly feeling like i had to lie about experiences i was never quite sure i had because of what i thought it would say about my faith walk to just admit i had never heard god in the way everyone else seemed to
"...like a puzzle I was always trying to fit together, like a code I was trying to decipher. It was making something out of nothing because I was so desperate..." Ex-fundie from Texas here and THIS is why I think I see folks raised this way seamlessly transition to conspiracy theorists. Just my observation.
I appreciate your videos and how I wish I'd had access to something like this 30+ years ago when I began my de-con journey. Best wishes to you. ❤
Jerri, your comment is almost exactly my experience. I was raised 7 Day Creationist and it wasn't until I took a class on conspiracy theory philosophy in college that I started looking back at Ken Ham and Rush Limbaugh and thinking "hang on...". And sure enough, my parents and I no longer talk because they're so far down the funnel.
Keen observation. This makes so much sense
One of the biggest judgements I've faced, as an ex-Christian, is that I was never really a Christian; I was never really "saved" or had faith, or had a real, personal relationship with my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. The truth is, I know 110% what it's like to feel that way.
I'm really sorry people have said that to you, too. It's so invalidating and wrong!
Yes but you know better now. I tell people that’s what I used to think too. They don’t want to understand because then they might actually have to consider what you have to say. There is a lot of self brainwashing in Christianity. They teach us when we are young how to corral our thoughts.
if Christianity is a religion of love, as it claims, how on earth can these statements be reconciled or seen as anything other than toxic judgment, shaming, de-legitimizing and psychologically cruel!? how is anyone to ever say for anyone else what another person's most inner experience is, never mind to speak with authority about it! clearly they are threatened that if your experience was 'real' and you still left, than that means that the same could happen to them!
well to quote the bible: "by their fruits shall ye know them"! they may SAY love, but if their actions are the opposite, believe the actions rather than the words, as the real demonstration of who they are, and where they are at on their 'spiritual journey'! we can bless them with compassion (for indeed they are fear based), and let them go, knowing our own truth, for ourselves (and that is enough). thank you for your post!
When someone recently told me the Bible is God's love letter I thought, that cliche is old enough to vote! I appreciate your posts.
Yes, that's a great way to put it! Thanks for sharing :)
That Cliche is old enough to be in menopause!!! I heard it from a Great Aunt!
@@MountainPearls lol!!!
I never felt like the bible was a love letter to me at all, and I don't know how a sober reading of it could come off that way! its full of some absolutely horrifying violent dictums of 'god' telling the people of Israel to commit genocide against the original occupants of Canaan (just one example), of 'non-believers' and 'sinners' burning in hell, and terrifying threatening verses like "avoid the desires of the flesh for it is because of these that the wrath of god is coming"! a love letter from god? I sure didn't feel this from reading 'his word', and the more I didn't feel the love, the more I felt like something was wrong with me, because 'everyone else' seemed to be 'feeling it', and proclaiming it, yet I didn't feel it at all! talk about cognitive dissonance!
I left the 'born again bubble' as it was messing with my thoughts..I never knew if it was the 'Holy spirit' speaking to me, the 'devil' or my thoughts..trying to decipher this madness made me finally leave this madness..As well as a 'fundie' I would have looked for confirmation bias to reinforce my belief when talking to people..There's much more to tell but I'm sure Elly you had covered enough...
Yeah, I remember all the stuff about how Jesus is my best friend, and the old "it's a relationship, not a religion" cliche. How Jesus never really clearly "spoke" to me. It was always vague hunches about what the Bible would say, or what a workbook that I bought for $15 would say.
And that verse in your diary thingy .. "cast your cares on the lord and he will sustain you." Imagine if you had a friend say that to you. "Awesome, so I've got this problem, can you take it?" "...." "Sorry, I didn't quite catch that." "[random bible verse]" Gee, thanks.
Yes, I used to say "It's a relationship, not a religion" all the time. I like your friend example at the end, that's so true!
I trusted Christ that my Sins would be forgiven. I understand the relationship aspect, BUT Not as most other Evangelicals, and Charismatics define this. I'd rather be saved and know it, with or without any 'voice of God' through dreams visions... It drives me crazy when brethren will tell me of their dream and vision . Apostle Paul was reticent to share his . I'd rather be Saved without the voice of GOD , the Silence of GOD, than to hear from false spirits which unfortunately most of Evangelical Christendom has heed to
This is so fascinating, I have an imaginary friend who’s stuck around since my childhood as a coping mechanism, gives me a way to talk to myself without feeling like it’s only my own perspective, and it’s fascinating to me just how similar “God” is to my imaginary friend in this theology, a voice that only you can hear who gives advice and lets you feel confident in your actions that you have been told you should not be so confident in without that voice. I really wish that having an imaginary friend was the commonly socially acceptable version of this. I absolutely do hear this imaginary friend’s voice in my head, but there is always awareness that it’s just my voice with a silly accent, it makes me love myself more, because I love this imaginary friend, and knowing he’s just someone I created makes it nicer to me than if I thought he was something outside of myself.
You’re hitting the nail on the head with EVERYTHING on this channel.
An atheist friend of mine once remarked that the people to speak personally with God about little things, (“Let me get a good parking spot, God,”) was the epitome of arrogance, that in this whole universe, God is going to personally help you out with decisions and little blessings when there’s so much else going on with the world. “I’d like to help these starving children or these people on a collapsing bridge but Larry doesn’t want to sit at a red light.”
Omg I always thought this too! It sickened me when people would share these little blessings stories. I would think of all the people in the pit of utter despair… but god, in his infinite power, helped YOU get your coffee a few minutes earlier. Gag.
@@carolramsey3393 for some reason, I read that “Gag” as Greg and for some reason I found the addition of “Greg” at the end of your rant hilarious.
I had a neighbor who was an extremely skilled artist and whenever someone praised her work, “Oh, I didn’t do that; God did it.” Ok, I get that you’re trying to be modest, but if it was God, than anyone could do it. Seriously, just say thank you and move on
Right here with you, girl. Why didn’t we see the problem with the fact that all of it was so hard (ex: your journaling about abiding and trusting). It was exhausting. If he’s such a great big wonderful God, and WANTS us to know him…then why the fork was it all so elusive and esoteric and hard?
Very interesting that your experiences of thinking you were hearing from God felt positive at the time. The couple times I thought I was hearing God scared the shit out of me and filled me with hideous guilt. It was like getting a terse fragment from a cold, bitter being that thought everything I did was wrong and actively wanted me to remove all of my autism hyperfixations from my life.
The pivotal point was praying in church in my late teens, asking earnestly to hear from the Holy Spirit, and hearing that voice say, "Stop going to deviantART", which rent my heart into pieces because I was just OBSESSED with visiting that website and looking at fan art of my favorite video games. I tried to make myself do that... but I just couldn't, and I felt like such a shithead and convinced myself that I had for sure fucked up big time and was for sure going to hell for this transgression.
I went through the motions for years afterward, but came to believe that Calvinism was actually real, I must not have been one of the elect and that there was no stopping my downward trajectory, so I had better at least enjoy what time I had on this planet. Needless to say, I am so glad I'm unlearning all that dumb shit now as an adult, and I am so glad I'm not the only one who mistook the mental voice placed in my noggin by my hyper-controlling parents for the divine. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences.
Wow. I totally know this feeling. You are so brave to share journal excerpts like this. I was recently doing some decluttering and decided to look through my old journals to see if there were any snippets of wisdom that might still apply to my life. But it was just the same old scriptures and prayer requests and begging for forgiveness throughout, so I started just throwing them away. You figured it out a lot younger than I did. Much love.
thank you SO much for this! hearing your account of 'hearing' god, helps ease the distress I felt at 'not hearing god'. when people would talk about how god/ Jesus spoke to them, I just felt SO badly about myself, because I could never say I had an experience like that! my biggest feeling from my childhood of being DEEPLY entrenched in Christianity, was of being a FAILURE! no matter how much I read my bible (and I did so every day), went to church, read Christian authors, went to bible study, talked with pastors, etc., I still always felt like such an incredible FRAUD, like I was acting a part that actually didn't feel real inside of me. I felt tremendous SHAME over this disconnect, and tried harder. I did NOT feel god's love for me, I did not feel Jesus was with me, or was my 'friend', I only felt badly about myself, and this shame, the feeling that there was something deeply flawed about me, grew and grew.
I always WISHED that I had your experiences of 'hearing god's voice', which, like you said, would have been SO reassuring! NOT hearing it confirmed my worst fears about myself, and I felt more and more despair. I felt myself to be a sham. I couldn't 'evangelize' to anyone, because I didn't feel fully convicted myself. In time I couldn't even pray anymore, because I imagined god was disgusted with me, and my repeated 'sinning' (making out with my boyfriend), then repenting, then doing it over and over again. what torment this was! and the sad thing is that this torment lives in me still today. though I left the church intellectually a LONG time ago, I still have a great difficulty with 'prayer' and quickly shut down and feel shame and anxiety overwhelm me. what about you? do you pray at all anymore? have you found an 'alternate spirituality' or do you feel 100% peace with being 'god-free'? if you've done a video on this already, let me know. and thank you SO much for your courage to do what you are doing here- I really appreciate it!
Thanks for sharing your experiences!
Absolutely, thanks for watching!
I don’t consider the way I was raised to be fundamentalism, but we were in church every Sunday and I spent many nights during my childhood asking God to make me believe again because I had found myself having a doubtful thought and was worried I would go to hell. My grandparents were and still are heavily involved in Assemblies of God, and their youth group indoctrinated me into what I now know are some heavily problematic, racist, homophobic, misogynistic beliefs. I realize I myself am in the process of deconstructing. I still believe in God, but not the god I was brought up to pray to. I have my own spiritual walk that in no way embraces any of what I was taught growing up. I recently learned about things like parentification, which I had never heard of until I saw it spoken about in a video by a therapist talking about the Duggars. I realize so many of these harmful things are things I just thought were normal. Your videos have really helped me to see that not only was this belief system not okay, but I don’t want my children anywhere near it.
I have come to love your channel. I think that, even within the atheist community, religious trauma isn't talked about directly as often as it should be, and yours is a great voice to lead to that very difficult subject. If you don't mind my saying, you seem like the kind of person who tends to find the beauty, even in dark places, and I think that's wonderful.
beautifully said- thank you!
OMG I WAS NOT EXPECTING YOU TO BRING UP CRAZY EX GIRLFRIEND!!!! I fucking LOVE that show!
Everything about this hit so hard. My parents identify as Catholic, but I'm learning bit by bit that no... they didn't adhere to traditional Catholic beliefs. They believed in charismatic fundamentalism. I knew they were young earth creationists, and I thought that was normal for Catholics. But the more I learn about your experiences and the experiences of other exvangelicals, the more I realize that I fit right in with y'all. Thank you so much for sharing your personal experiences with the world. I, for one, very much needed the comfort and validation of hearing that I was not alone in experiencing all that I did, and as I explore my religious trauma, it's nice to feel that somewhere out there, there is someone who deeply understands what I went through, and sympathizes with my journey.
welcome to this wonderful club of 'fundie survivors' - so wonderful that we live in a time of the internet and vlogs and utube, so that we can find each other this way!
I relate so, so much to everything you said in this video. I had an almost identical kind of relationship with God, where I'd listen for him "in my heart" and feel a sort of internal confirmation that I interpreted as being from God. I really appreciated the thoughts you shared at the end about your "relationship to that voice" you once believed was God. Thanks so much for sharing this video!
I'm curious about what college you attended. Rather, what their take was on homosexuality. I went to Rochester College (2003-2005) before transferring to a state school. At RC, we had to sign a pledge as part of our admission that had a bunch of campus rules, one of them being that we would not commit any homosexual acts or we would be kicked out of school. I still get solicitations from them for donations, 17 years later, in my dead name (I'm trans and queer). Of course, we had an ex-gay come to Chapel one Wednesday and tell us how, even if you can't experience attraction to "the opposite sex," you can be abstinent for Jesus. So, at 19, I was praying gratitude that my temptation from Satan was just that I was bi, because I could still serve him without having to be abstinent. Ugh. It's no wonder I didn't figure out I was trans until I was in my 30s! And don't get me started on purity culture! I'm so grateful to my chosen family, to science, to the queer activists and educators who came before me. That poor kid; I was so lost.
Thank you so much for sharing this. I am taken aback a little of how accurately you've described my personal experience of having a relationship with god as a teenager. I grew up in a messianic Jews community, but it was just some sort of Christianity (fundamentalist? Pentecostal? I don't even know what each one means exactly) with extra flavors. Even now, 18 years after I left, sometimes I feel like this weird and unacceptable part of my life can't be shared with others and if shared, I'd surely be misunderstood. So listening to you speak about everything so openly really helps the process of accepting this part of my past, that for so long I had to keep in a sealed box. Thank you so much for you bravery. I'm sure that it's not easy and I hope that this is healing for you. (Sorry if my English is weird, it's not my first language)
I'm so glad you shared this! I relate so much! I too would "talk" to God and hear a voice in my head. I think it was just a "super-ego" part of me that I could hear in a detached way. In essence, it was my own thoughts. But it was so validating hearing that someone else had a similar experience!
It's so interesting hearing you talk about spiritual experiences. I was raised with no religion and still don't believe yet I had very similar moments of spiritual feeling revelation as a teenager. It seems like a feature of the teen brain somehow!
When I was catholic, I would struggle with the fact that prayers felt pointless. I couldn’t talk to god like others seemed to.
One day, I had this very vivid dream that I was walking on a staircase with Jesus. I remember him telling me that he loved me and that my experience is my own or something to that effect. I think it wasn’t too long after that when I let go of religion.
These days I’m pagan and consider myself a child of Freya. I feel her love and presence the same way many Christians feel their god.
Your journal was very similar to mine growing up. I was searching for parental love through a very dysfunctional relationship with a deity. This relationship caused me lots of religious trauma.
ah yes, if our own fathers are ^&&*ed up, then how on earth can we have a healthy 'relationship' with a 'heavenly father', as the two are so merged from our earliest experiences, and our experience of the one painfully informs our (imagined) experience with the other!
I used to do this all the time! Little things I thought were God or feelings like a warm feeling in my chest. Thanks for sharing your experience ❤️
I recognize (now) that what I felt as the holy spirit or God speaking to me was elevation emotions. I was rarely able to achieve it without witnessing an act (either in my head or visually). I was never able to separate my internal monologue from the words of God, it left me so broken... Why wouldn't God speak to me, like he did others? Since then, I've just settled on that people think "internal dialogue if it was righteous in nature=God unrighteous=satans temptations". Sorry still binge watching and feel so connected to something in every video I feel the need to comment!
me too- about feeling compelled to comment as so many thoughts and feelings arise from watching these videos! thank you for your post!
Thank you for uploading. I’ve been wondering might be going on for a friend of mine who is becoming fundamentalist. What you said reminds me of the Freudian idea of the “superego” - the internalized programming of childhood authority figures, such as parents, churches, schools, etc. I think many of us think those internalized messages are God’s voice.
"God is alive and active, and speaking all the time" The amount of chaos that belief has caused. I don't even know where to begin
This video touches me so much. I am healing from relational, attachment trauma too. The method I have is Internal Family Systems (IFS). I wonder if you have looked into this method at all. What you describe about hearing voices is so very similar to how IFS sees the world. Hearing voices in IFS is actually completely natural and one of the methods of listening inside. I know that might sounds crazy, but IFS is actually a method of trauma healing that is catching tremendously over the last few years, even though it was first identified in the early 80s. In IFS different parts of us take on different roles to do different jobs for us. I think it could be really interesting to look into IFS.
That does sound really interesting, I'll check it out! Thanks for sharing :)
Part of the reason this phenomenon specifically damaged me, was that at times I was encouraged by other people that I was hearing the true voice of god, but then when I was alone and people weren’t putting that idea into my head, I wouldn’t be able to feel or hear anything from god/Jesus and then I would hate myself, wonder what I did, wonder if I’ll ever hear from him again. Turns out looking back every SINGLE time I “heard” god other people were involved and basically telling me so.
Ps 139. One of my old favourites too!
That's oddly comforting to know! :)
Thanks for continuing to share your experiences. I'm in the process of deconstructing and greatly struggling on how to interact with my still fundamental Christian family and find comfort in the things you share. Also would love hear any advice on how to maintain relationships with family after leaving Christianity
Thank you for sharing, that sounds really tough. I'm not sure I have much advice to give, but I can absolutely empathize! It's something I’ve been trying to figure out how to navigate, too. The Dirty Rotten Church Kids podcast was talking about this in a recent episode, and they suggested making sure you put up boundaries, whatever that looks like for you. (For example, if you want to explain to your family what you're going through, you can. Or you can stay off the topic of religion and faith if you prefer.) I think it’s important to remember that there’s no rule book, and you ultimately get to decide what works best for you. That can be really freeing coming from an environment where everything had rules, but it can also be overwhelming to have that choice. I wish you all the best in your deconstruction and in your relationships with your family!
THANK YOU for talking about Francine Rivers! As a person who has been sexually abused her book “Redeeming Love” was downright triggering to me and all my Christian friends and family members thought that it should be healing to me. Then multiple people have wanted me to watch the movie with them 🤢
Thank you so much for this 😭
One especially lonely night when I was in college, I went out for a walk on a cold, windy Kansas evening. After walking for an hour or so, a voice in my head said “There is no end of the road.” At the time I didn’t give it much thought but afterwards I spent a good deal of time trying to figure out what it meant.
Years later I would say, without me interpreting it, it doesn’t mean anything at all.
Good job and thank you! You are inspiring me to tell my story!
This hits so hard because it's something I still struggle with even now that I'm no longer a Christian. It's funny how the "voice of god" often sounds exactly like guilt for not constantly putting your own needs in the backburner to suit others. Please your mother, please your father, serve your brothers and sisters, please the church elders but you must never want or need anything for yourself. That's sinful and selfish. What kind of life is that?
My family was also charismatic adjacent. I was mostly Foursquare but we also attended some community Baptist and Assembly of God churches.
I used to think the same way. Im grateful I dont have any of these letters anymore
We also have a charismatic group here where I live. They're too having constantly all kinds of prophesies. Still not so bad that nothing good comes out of it. A fellow I know was an addict and became clean after joining that so called church. What comes to the constant ranting with prophecies, I for even once should've asked "How much does that prophet of yours drink?". Quite often those prophecies sounded as if a career drunkard with paranoid schizophrenia symptoms would be searching everywhere for eavesdropping devices.
Heavy alcohol use can soften the brain so much that people become sorta kinda spiritual. Or slightly psychotic. They can latch onto all sorts of nonsense just like they latched on to drink.
Wow I have journals as well to look back on.
I was also charamastic agnistic,
So I sometimes experience what I'm pretty sure are mild auditory hallucinations when I'm exhausted. It's very similar to hearing a regular sound except, because it's just in my head, it doesn't make my eardrums vibrate so I don't really hear/feel it. It's usually random words, though sometimes it's a phrase I'd heard recently or more abstract noises. It's exactly like how you described hearing God's voice. I'm not saying that's what was happening to you, I just thought it was interesting.
All of your videos I can resonate with so much! Ugh the torture of trying to listen to that "still small voice"!
Just curious, do you feel like the words you felt God was telling you were bad? How did you discern what was God and what was your subconscious? Or do you think it was all your imagination? - I know you mentioned extending the vacation thing was bad but were most of the messages helpful? --I ask because I have had times where I feel I was clearly told by God to do something and then I get confirmation. Like really solid confirmation. It's so rare. I love that feeling so much that I look for it all of the time and I think many times I am pretending to hear Gods voice about things but it is really coming from my wants, or imagination.
As an agnostic, I find this fascinating and sad at the same time. I somehow stumbled onto your video and I am sad that you lost that connection to God. Do you feel an absence in your life now? Just curious about that. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Lots of kids keep diaries and I’m sure many of their parents would take a peek if they had the opportunity. Do Fundie parents respect their child’s privacy when it comes to journals? Yours is so much more than recording daily events and crushes. Would parents read the journals as a means to track their spiritual journey? This would certainly impact what a person could write.
Tbh many of these parents do not respect their kids as equals they along with their church leaders look down on kids and believe they own them
man hearing a lot of this terminology like "abide in me" and shit is lowkey triggering af
A big OUCH
I love you
Omg i keep getting devotionals for christmas and i never even look at them. At first i asked for one bc i thought it would help me understand the bible more but it just doesnt do that
Aren’t fundamentalists also obsessed with being able to talk in tongues especially after being “baptized” in the Holy Spirit? Because I remember going to some huge gathering of Christian fundamentalists when I was attending a private Christian school as a field trip and all these people surrounding me praying for my soul or something until I started to speak in tongues. Nothing actually happened to me and it was starting to get really awkward as these people stared at me so I just started to make random noises to make them stop whatever it was that they were doing to me and it worked. Im not even sure if I was meant to speak in tongues because technically I have a very limited basic understanding of the Taiwanese dialect of Chinese due to my family being originally from Taiwan and I already knew some simple Spanish words. One boy that came on the field trip was in tears speaking in tongues and it seemed like everyone else was expecting something similar to happen to me so I just made up stuff because I didn’t want them to think that something was wrong with me.
It's amazing that people actually believe that God is focused like a laser on helping them do their hair while children starve to death all over the world.
I've heard many stories of religious people's brains developing a sort of thought-program of god or Jesus or whoever due to the belief they should be hearing them. I'm guessing that's what happened here, the fact you believed you would hear god made your brain fill in the gaps and construct a program which would speak as him beyond your consciousness.
Saddened by your experience. I'll try to give my sincere thoughts and experience
The few times I sincerely believe I heard the Voice of God, the HOLY SPIRIT The Moment I understood the Grace of the Gospel ( 1 Cor 15, Rom 4:5, Eph 1:13 ) and merely Believed, Trusted in the Blood of Christ as the sole Reason for my Salvation, apart from any merit ( works) . My One any Only Salvation Moment ( 1974 )
In college, ( 1982 ) against by better discernment, I sought a 'tongues' experience ( a form of false mysticism ) , believing that this was part of a deeper life in my relationship to Christ. I found out that I encountered a false jesus, false spirt , being that my previous assurance of salvation was questioned. In other words, the spirit of Grace I received as a teen, was later compromised and a vexation spirit tormented my emotions. I believe there are many people who get saved, but subsequently get vexed by false doctrine ( mysticism ) which much of the Charismatic teaching is .
I never met a Charismatic who can affirm the most Blessed , Comforting truth of Eternal Security , despite their boasting in the Holy Spirit, Tongues, Dreams, and Visions. From my many years of study of scripture, observation, listening to testimonies, I believe there is widespread confusion on the simplicity of Salvation, and lack of discernment of the best of Chrisitan leaders in our day.
Frankly, All I desired is the Solid Rock of Assurance of Salvation ( Luke 10:20) . Without that I'm worthless in ministering the Gospel of Christ to anyone else . ( My brother in law, raised in Church of GOD denomination , once said, 'Why Get Saved, if one can loose it afterwards" )
I went through the same guilt you had from Francine Rivers. I don't know much about this author but not all Chrisitan women agree with her
Bottom Line, Not Everything taught by popular Chrisitan preachers / authored is of GOD
Hearing the voice of GOD may not be what most teachers say it is. I would say the Silence of GOD is far better, IF the Voices of 'God' are counterfeit
FYI
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I trusted Christ that my Sins would be forgiven. I understand the relationship aspect, BUT Not as most other Evangelicals, and Charismatics define this. I'd rather be saved and know it, with or without any 'voice of God' through dreams visions... It drives me crazy when brethren will tell me of their dream and vision . Apostle Paul was reticent to share his . I'd rather be Saved without the voice of GOD , the Silence of GOD, than to hear from false spirits which unfortunately most of Evangelical Christendom has heed to
Whatever Trauma you have faced is real Trauma. With the videos posted, can perceive, it must have been very traumatizing. But if it all amounts to saying that there is no GOD, then you are moving to other extreme. Since you are able to analyze things so well, why don't you to strip the disappointments/ actual expectations/ experience as christian kid/ the way you are nurtured. looking at all of this separately will make one understand oneself better.
You think atheism is extreme?
Looking at it separately is how we notice that "god" is just the placeholder used instead of 'we don't know how that works'.
Turns out it's healthier to say, "I don't know," rather than, "god did it."
There is still a lot to learn so we might as well be honest and say, "we don't know, yet, and we're trying to find out."
Looking at it separately is an excellent sugestion because it provides greater clarity about how religion is a method of control within a seemingly unexplained world, and, about the abuses specifically used by religion to enforce it.
Great exposé. It is indeed a load of horseshit.
I’m just wondering if you don’t believe in God, what DO you believe? I don’t think it was God’s fault that you misunderstood Him. That was probably partly you’re upbringing and partly your desire for validation. That’s just my 2 cents. I wouldn’t let subjective experiences invalidate God. Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water based on experience alone. I DO believe we know the path God wants us on by reading and obeying His word. There really is no magic in that.
My “theistic opinion” of what I’ve seen on her channel so far is that fundamentalism destroyed her ability to connect with God in typical religious ways (praying, going to church, reading the Bible, believing in God at all) but that doesn’t mean God isn’t in her life. If God is real, then God doesn’t disappear when someone stops believing. I would say she is still experiencing God through her relationships with other people, through her kindness and efforts to do good, and through her experiences in the world / as part of the world (since God is everywhere and everything).
I don’t mean to discredit anyone who doesn’t believe in God, this is just how someone who believes in God would interpret a story like hers. God doesn’t care whether you use the word “God” or read the Bible; as long as you engage with the world and are kind to others, you’re doing the exact same thing as a (healthy/non-fundie) believer but just using different vocabulary. It’s no loss if you have to stop thinking of things like nature, goodness, unity, and compassion as “God”; it doesn’t matter as long as you do think of and interact with those things.
As a believer since birth, reading His book and learning God's complete character terrified me.
People said good, a God-fearing Christian should be properly afraid.
I learned about "The Cycle of Abuse" and realized the deity in the story creates the opposite of feeling safe, secure, and loved as I am. It grooms people to accept abuse, thinking that it's love.
The final realization was that the amazing feelings attributed to religious beliefs can be felt outside of religious context. It's just that religion claims to be the source and trains you to avoid experiencing the feelings outside of religious context at all costs to avoid eternal torm*nt.
Looking at religious beliefs separately from the rest of life demonstrates that the beliefs aren't real.
Life can be peaceful, wonderful, and profoundly meaningful - all on it's own.