Dragon Age Inquisition - Why You Should SIDE WITH THE TEMPLARS
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.พ. 2025
- In this video, we're going to explore why you should side with the Templars instead of the mages in Dragon Age: Inquisition. I’ll be showing you what happens when you side with the Templars, including unique quests, dialogue and encounters you will discover when choosing this path.
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Honestly, I think Inquisition dropped the ball on the mage-templar conflict. The entire last game set it up, and it’s only a single act here. Hell, you don’t even really work on a solution to the root cause. You just picked a side and kicked the conflict down the road. Which, it’s kinda funny when you think about it because they set up the ideas for resolving the issues long term in Cassandra’s storyline. Both the circle and templars need a supervisory group made jointly by both of them.
I think the idea of resolution was depending on who you put on the throne of the chantry. Liliana basically disbands the templars and frees the mages, but makes them go to school.
Cassandra wants to reform the templars, to be nicer to mages, and make them feel more equal
Whereas Viv just wants to play girl boss, and send the mages back to the circles
@@dgrblue4162 Viv sending them back to work.
Really though, I only think Viv on the throne will set a lasting effect. Because, we see in the game everyone forgot the original inquisitor was a mage because it was an inconvenient truth to the chantry. Viv being the leader is a lot harder to cover up. Especially because she has the ambition to leave a lasting legacy. Not to say the others wouldn’t try to have a lasting effect, but Viv sets an example mages can aspire too in the chantry. Templars can view her as what qualities to trust in a mage and may ease up naturally.
Overall though, I think the game should of worked more closely on the issues involved. Because the conflict at the end of the day boils down to control. Who should have more control over magic being the individual or chantry, and what can they do to minimize the consequences of it getting out of control. The fact seekers can reverse tranquilly should of been a bigger thing in the game. Because it proves that they know way more about the source of magic than anyone else.
Totally agree, this one of the many things that disappointed me of Inquisition, all the set up for the Mage/Templar war in DA2 and Asunder, and it was so poorly managed in Inquisition.
@@dgrblue4162 . your oversimplification of Vivianne as Divine is totally wrong.
Vivianne makes the circle again, but this time the Templars are leashed to her hand, while the mages gain more power, rights and responsibilities.
I think Inquisition did what needed to be done tho. This conflict and it's "duality" have long been bothering in the background. Their possible act of peace was blasted off.
And in reality, you didn't quite pick a side, you just chose which to deal with first, but the dangers were far more closer than the Inquisition expected, by the time you rescued one, the other had already fallen. It's a deadend
Something you don't mention is that you get a different mix of enemies in the open world depending on which side you go for. There are many fewer red templars and more Venatori particularly in the Hissing Wastes. (This is useful for driving up Iron Bull's approval since he likes killing Venatori.)
Why wasn’t I aware of this info before getting to Skyhold? Well at least I was able to slay the HinterLands dragon.
But you get way less Red Lyrium for Corrupting Runes.
@@spiderz5145 this, you can farm them tho certain missions give you corruption runes
@@spiderz5145 You can get them in the storm coast , you have to level up until wicked eyes, then you are able to unlock a new are within here where are many red templars.
Plus it makes more sense too cause time magic? WTF lol
Dorian does not appear to disapprove of either outcome if the Herald did not enter the Redcliffe Chantry, and therefore did not meet or speak to him prior to beginning this quest. Dorian's dialogue during In Your Heart Shall Burn and at Skyhold is also changed accordingly. You forgot to tell that is right below where you cut th approval ratings, he can´t fell betrayed if he doesn t know you
nah, he does disapprove, it's just a smaller hit to your numbers. it's closer to a -5 than a -10-15 you get if you talk to him.
Correct: no meeting with Dorian prior to In Your Heart Shall Burn, no disapproval.
So long as you don't go to meet Dorian in the Redcliffe Chantry, after Alexius gives you the note, you won't get any disapproval. Dorian's dialogue, after Champions of the Just, when Haven is being attacked in In Your Heart Shall Burn changes to reflect this.
IF YOU DO MEET DORIAN in Redcliffe, and then side with the Templars... Dorian Greatly Disapproves (a whopping -25 to his approval rating)
@@listofromantics from the game files, ie if you look at the actual numbers associated with the approval system, dorian will disapprove regardless of whether you talk to him. it's not a huge hit like talking to him first but it is there. you can recoup most of that hit just by letting him join and not being a total dick in the conversation leading up to recruitment.
also his greatly disapproves from talking then templars is about a -15, with a few points being recouped for actually talking to him and later recruiting him. he does gain the full 25 approval for allying with the mages though.
Olha quem eu achei
guindaste vc por aqui
I tried both sides and all I can say is: Calpernia storyline is much better, but I personally want free mages, so I always side with them and free them, then I try to make Leliana the divine and she finally has enough power to follow my work. That's why overall I think the mages storyline is better (plus lurking around finding Samson's weakness is fun and the time travel too)
Helping Calpernia "survive" has a more direct impact on the story than the free mages, but I have been saving mages since Origins, I had to choose
Also the mage quest has better music
You can still make leliana Devine even if you side with the templars.
Corypheus claims he was the only one who returned from the Black City but I was under the impression The Architect was one of his fellow magisters that breached The Black City
He is. But the architect doesnt have memories of that. He thinks hes just a highly intelligent darkspawn. Most likely the same with Corypheus- he only remembers his part in it since, if i remember correct, he instigated it.
Also, he is the one that implies that the black city was already black. Now, if you look closely to the Who is the dreadwolf's trailer you will get a better image of what I am trying to say. The thing is .. The evanuris and Solas sealing them behind was the reason why the golden city is black? damn.
I think people forget about the intelligent darkspawn from the origin dlc
@Redelmopaint where was it revealed that he believes he was
Born that way plus he was able to create other intelligent dark spawn
Alexius time magic only succeeds IF you went on to confront him (Choosing the mage's side of the quest). If you chose templar and "ignores" Alexius, he ended up dead and the time magic was never brought up again. Like, the problem only persists IF you try to "stop" it.
Like in Kung Fu Panda when Oogway told Shifu that Tai Lung will break out of prison, only for Sifu himself being the main source of it happening since he told the duck to talk to the jailers, thus causing a snowball effect that led to Tai Lung's prison break. If Shifu "ignores" it, maybe Tai lung won't break out, or at least not in a short time period.
And miss King Alistair cameo?
@@RealBerserkerQueen ye but picking between alistair and hawke is tuff asf
Unfortunately. 😭 I’m mad he can’t show up regardless. But it’s such a small cameo in the grand scheme of things.
@@hippobreath3703 Just make Alistair king of Ferelden in Dragon Age Origins, lol. He makes for a great king and you don't need to choose because he's busy being king and is no longer a warden. Then you get to choose between Hawke and that one moustache warden you see once in DA2
@@Doom-Shepard i dont rly wanna force kingship on him, and its even weird that he has to marry his dead brother’s widow in one option. Also making him rule by himself is cool and all but prolly not the happiest road for him
@@hippobreath3703 If you "harden" him (take him to see his sister in Denerim and then tell him that everyone is looking out for themselves), he will confront you later to say that he's thankful and will look out for himself more. After this, he openly opposes the idea of Anora ruling, and is more confident, and also the end credits change to say that Alistair truly enjoys being king and is very good at it too.
I hate that you couldn’t do both choose one then have a harder mission to recruit the other as well
With how stupidly centrist Inquisitions narrative is (both sides equally wrong bs) it kind of makes no sense you can't just recruit both. That's kind of what you did in Origins too, unite the armies against a bigger threat. It would just make more sense imho. (Of course, would still be a terrible way to treat this conflict, but in no way worse than how it ended up in the game).
@@thrumugnyr I think there's no problem in making the two sides equally wrong and right. If you make a side obviously evil, most people will never choose that option besides some that want a villain playthrough.
@@gannielukks1811 I would agree. But then you have to choose different sides that are equally complex/grey. If one of the sides IS obviously more evil and the other isn't, it becomes very awkward and honestly, for me that's where the whole mage templar thing ended up in. They did some weird backpeddaling, especially in Inquisition, but it really doesn't work. If you have slavery, executions at whim, rape and forced lobotomy on one side....no matter how much 'but this one guy killed some people' or 'look this character thinks circles are neat' you add, it won't help because it's such a grave discrimination based on something you were born with. (Not to mention most blood mages ended up as such because they got corned by templars in the first place). Heck, DA2 had a templar death squad who tried to kill someone who helped a mage relative who escaped and was whipped and starving). Who in their right mind would choose templars unless, as you said, you'd play a villain? In Inquisition they just don't give you much of the context and present the mages as kind of idiot terrorists, but for anyone who played the other games, it really doesn't work.
Even the fact that templars get lyrium addicted and whatnot is just the fault of the chantry in the end. It would've made way more sense to lean into the chantry as real enemy, but someone at Bioware has a hard on for the church, so now we get ancient elf is the real enemy. Cool. Idk, I only recently played all the games for the first time and as someone who does belong to a group that is getting 'oppressed' by the catholic church right now in the present day (gay in Poland), this shit got personal real fast and I was so pissed how it all got handled.
(Also it was pretty fucked up how much Inquisition pushes for you to pick templars as opposed to mages. It's not even neutral in that regard. Not to mentionalmost all the characters hate you for it lmao.)
Sorry for the rant. I just have a lot of emotions after finishing the game and about how much Inquisition annoyed me.
@@thrumugnyrThe Templars are pretty obviously the „white“ choice.
@@thrumugnyrin inquistion you picked sided tho? You could side with mages or templars. Elves or werewolves, dwarves or golems... It's just not shoved into your face like it is here with Inquisition
I used to be really sad that Samson couldn't be reasoned with like Calpernia, but now I'm more okay with it because it just shows how far gone he is, and how much the lyrium messed him up
I do agree that Calpernia has the better storyline, but I prefer siding with the mages.
I have done both sides in my PT's, but I always come back to the mage storyline, as I think that part of the story is better. Samson is also a better antagonist, though his storyline is objectively worse than Calpernia's
I really hope that we are going to see her in the next game, or at least get some info on where she is and what she's up to.
Samson and Calpernia both have their pros and cons. Calpernia is an interesting character, she actually cares about those under her control and she knows both the life of a slave and that of a magister because she's been both. However her story feels less... connected to the previous games. Samson.... he's more one dimensional, which isn't bad, sometimes having a complete bastard as the baddie is good, because you can enjoy smacking 'em around... but then he's not, Maddox is incredibly loyal to him even without emotion to cause the tie so Samson must have a way with people, making them see things from his perspective and the whole red lyrium aspect is a direct continuation from 2.
Personally I like Calpernia as an antagonist more then Samson, but I like Samson's questline more. I like villains that aren't completely black and white, the fact that Calpernia, when she realises what Corphy-snit is planning goes "If he would misuse me, he would misuse them" is a really clear statement of her character, she cares about about those she commands then herself and honestly I hope she makes a return because she either A) doesn't end up playing a big role for Corphy if you take away his mages, B) throws herself off a waterfall rather then be killed by inky or C) goes to confront Corphy but either way in all three of these, you don't actually see her die. And if Bioware can pull their spirit bollocks to keep the most annoying character in the franchise alive after you kill her at the Temple of Sacred Ashes, they can do something to bring back a character who has an actual personality and the makings of an amazing storyline.
Calpernia, if developers make it right, could be a valuable ally in the next game. Which is another reason why I side with templars. I usually play for the result. With the mages, you do not have a support like you have with the templars. Fiona does nothig else that the templars can do too. Like they help with the breach, done. Now what? They stay with the inquisition as allies until the last mission before endgame. Something that the templars always do. So, what does Templars a better option to the inquisition instead of our preferences is that THEY DO HELP to stablish a order within their ranks. You got Ser Barris who can be the Knight-commander promoted by you and the approval of Cullen. The fact that to get there is through missions that helps Thedas is useful. This is why I personally, prefer the Templars in Inquisition. It is better because they help, they submit to their mistakes and look for performance. With mages? nothing than background morality. Funny th, that Leliana wants to help the mages until she is the one who wants to kill every mage in the future. Leliana at the very end is very idealistic. With Cassandra a the throne fits for balance and it is the only one who achieves peace, canonically in the game.
Pdt: Calpernia could be a potential ally in tevinter (DA: Dreadwolf).
Mages are morons who sided with tevinter nuuf said.Screw em.
I seen u everywhere!
I actually love both storylines. Personally if I am going to side with the Templars, I avoid Redcliffe till after doing the Templar quest. It doesn't make sense to me for the Inquisitor to ignore the time magic that can destroy the world to go meet with the Templars. It's not hard to do and makes the story flow together much better I think.
Yes, this! If you go to Redcliffe, and learn about time magic, then you'd have to be insane to side with the templars, and just ignore the huge newly discovered threat. Something I didn't like about the game actually - when I first played it, while I did intend to go with the mages, having learned about the time magic threat, it seemed they took the option of siding with the templars away from me; since I wasn't playing a character who was an idiot, or insane.
I actually still haven't played the Templar path. Maybe I should try it. Of course, avoiding Redcliffe to make it make sense.
@@j.lahtinen7525 Going for an obvious trap in the castle of a crazy deluded mage that uses time magic trusting that your spies enter in time to save you doesn't seem the most reasonable plan to me. The game does a good job in showing you through dialogue how crazy that setup is for the herald's life. Ofc, we are in a videogame and we know it's going to work but roleplay wise it's not surreal to go for the safer option and try to reason with the templars with the help of nobles (obviously you don't know yet about the whole envy demon thing). So in terms of solving a threat sure, choosing the mages quest is a no brainer (since there isn't any threat that you know of involving the templars anyways) but in terms of security and real options of getting an ally I think choosing the templars is the better option.
@@j.lahtinen7525 funny thing is, the "time magic" only succeeds IF you went to confront Alexius. If you ignore him and go with the templar quest, Alexius dies and there's no time magic to be mentioned ever again. They kinda dropped the ball with this one..
Incredibly dangerous mage using dangerous magic and an obvious trap? Wonder if there is an organisation that exists to deal with that. Perhaps we should get the templars then go deal with that once they're on our side. Sure we never do because crusty attacks Haven with the mages but roleplay-wise, we didn't know that was going to happen. This is what my thought process was on my first play through and it's one that stuck with me since.
I actually go to the redcliff , get to know the mage situation meet dorian and know about the trap . Then avoid the trap go to the templar meet cole and close the rift it just make more since you get to meet both sides and both companion to justifie letting them into the inquisition the story seems smooth that way
I wished it had been like the geth and quarians in me3. Helping them resolve their issues and change from there, even if it's only some of them would have been a compelling story.
Okay, but to be fair, in ME you needed 3 games of right decisions to make peace between Quarians and Geth. And another thing is that whole ME trilogy is played out from the perspective of one character... Here, they decided in 3 games set up 3 different, totally unrelated, characters.
@@HanithSVK and we had three games of problems between mages and templar's to fix that, too. Enough set up, if you ask me. Or heck, take whichever faction you sided with to save the other when you reach that fork in the road.
I'm glad there was no compromise and happy solution, as much as I like that kind of resolution, This game and story was a dark setting and I'm glad they made us save one and screw the other, in every RPG there's always an option for a happy outcome, I'm glad they decided this isn't one of those situations.
Think about it, this conflict has been going on and building up between Mages and Templars for centuries, It's kind of ridiculous that one person shows up and suddenly both groups come to peace.
@@f.m848 that's the point of having options though. You can choose the story you like. Some of us didn't get that here.
@@Agent_N7 You misunderstood me.
What i meant was not that there isn't enough development in background story, but in the ME it was one person who, thanks to his actions through 3 different games, managed to build a peace in a face of total annihilation of everything both organic and synthetic species knew.
Here, in the first game, you are grey warden. Member of the faction that is supposed to be a politically neutral.
Then you have Hawke, who doesn't really care up until his brother/sister are taken amd even then Hawke is more focused on his own survival and survival of those closest to him/her or 1 city at most.
And then we have Herald, whose class is totally on player but even if they choose to play as a mage, then said mage is an apostate who had never been in Circle. So, in other words, total outsider.
And this on top of the fact, that story of these 3 games is playing out over the course of more than 10 years, most of which we never got to see.
So yes, to put it in simpler words, what is missing in DA to achieve peace, is a unifying voice. Someone who has experiences with both mages and templars and whose actions left both groups totally impressed(and in way they are indebted to said person), AND they are not grey wardens who are not supposed to dabble in politics.
HoF is disqualified by the Grey Warden fact.
Hawke helped one side while killing many of the other. Not exactly person who could convince opposing side to put down weapons and discuss.
And Inquisitor just jumps in too late. Maybe if there was no Corypheus or that Inquisitor would manage to reach both sides before Red Lyrium corruption or Alexius's plot succeeded, it could've been different.
But had Corypheus not attacked, Inquisitor would be nobody.
Tbh the biggest thing I care about with this decision are the characters who die. If you side with the mages, Baris will die. But if you side with the Templars, Fiona (Alistair's mother) will die and potentially Connor too.
Fiona's death is one of the good things)))
Does anyone else Greatly Disapprove that Fiona is Alistair’s mom? She looks like and sounds absolutely nothing like him. I hate it lol
@@Brittanysplittany Yes, me. I hate it too, you're not alone
Dude Fiona is an elf and Alistair is a human
@@darthsol658 The game/books explain that and elf and human parents will always result in a human child. It's explained at the end of one of the books (The Calling) that Fiona is actually Alistair's mother but gave him up because she couldn't raise him due to being a grey warden (Elf and mage to add on probably) and wanted Alistair to have a better life. Both The king and Fiona agreed that he wouldn't know that Fiona was his mother and instead would make him believe that his mother was a human who died.
this route sounds cool, but Time Travel (always a favorite trope of mine) and a Cullen side-quest will always make me pick the Mage route
I love Cullen, so I also always pick the side of the mages, just so I am able to do the Samson side quest later with him.
I usually just side with the templar due to one reason, the scene in the temple of sacred ashes where they close the breach and either the templars stick their swords down to the ground... or see the mages do the same with the top end of their staffs.... like wtf, Templars it is then lmao.
Imo the only two reasons to side with Templars in Inquisition is because 1) Templar questline is more interesting than that of the mages and 2) Calpernia. Her storyline is more interesting with believable motivations and goals. Plus you can make Calpernia realize Corypheus and her don't want the samething and you can let her go.
Samson's motivations are very believable too, especially after all the lyrium withdrawal he has gone through.
If by Templar questline you mean that Champions of the Just is more interesting than in Hushed Whispers, then I disagree.
@@SeventhheavenDK Samson was like "I want Templars to die at their best and proceeded to allow Corypheus to feed them red lyrium" that's stupid if you ask me and very foolish. Also, red templars may be seen as peak form but you can't tell me you're at your best while you're slowly dying and you're getting killed by your own power. Samson saw Corypheus as his source to feed his lyrium addiction, I mean after you use Dagna's rune to nerf his armor he cries like a bitch because his lyrium is gone. Calpernia wanted to change tevinter so that every life there matters, everyone should be allowed to reach their potential, I mean her motivation is flawed too but it makes a lot of sense and you can see why she thought serving Corypheus might help her realize her goals because she thought they want the same thing which is why I always reveal Corypheus's plans for her and then let her go.
As for in hushed whispers, we got teleported in the future, and met an old Leliana who's not interested in telling us exactly what happened and we spend time looking for shards. I mean we found out through reading journals of venatori and Alexius on what's going on and that's it.
In Champions of the just I like the way the demon shows us what's gonna happen in future by actually showing us. That whole mind battle and with the interactions with Cole was just amazing, and to top it all off, when Cole reveals himself in haven🔥
@@busanikingz3453 agree with what you said about Champions of the Just, but I like Hushed Whispers a little bit more because you can see the future caused by Corypheus, and since it isn’t explained what choices lead for it to happen, there’s paranoia that you may be making the wrong decisions leading up to that timeline.
I also think it’s funny how the demons just hold Iron Bull from his head and toss him like he was nothing XD.
I also like the character interactions in Hushed Whispers, and Dorian is fun enough to tolerate, he’s not to serious but serious enough to where I really take him seriously.
The shard collecting to easy enough but pretty bland, feels like they just remembered it’s an rpg and decided to stick it in there for a fun scavenger hunt, at least it’s not wicked eyes and wicked hearts.
One con is that you have to wait to get Cole and it isn’t explained much on who Cole is without having played Champions of the Just.
@@A_Random_IRS_B0T_ I thought the wrong future in hushed whispers happens because Alexius teleports us to the future as there's no trace of us during that whole year where Corypheus was running rough shod on thedas, the herald and Dorian have no memory of that other than being in ferelden hall, also the companions don't a memory of us in that year, what they remember is that moment when we disappeared which is why I don't think that there are mystical choices we supposedly did but not told what, that led up to that future.
Another thing is that Alexius didn't intend to teleport us into the future he wanted to erase us to reverse the actions in the temple of sacred ashes but the magic wasn't ready and the spell misfired when Alexius cast it in desperation as stated by Dorian.
that's basically what the author of this video said lol
I've done both, but generally side with the mages. Less Cole, more timetravel = win/win! That whole red future sequence is so cool. I do like the idea of potentially strengthening Tevinter against the Qunari as is implied when sparing Calpernia. (Although there's no way that will end up as anything other than talk)
why do you dislike Cole? He's a sweet kid
@@DustdeviIs He's a "sweet kid" only in that he means well.
Other than that, he brings no entertainment at all to the game. He just keeps talking in his flat voice, never saying anything funny or interesting.
Further, he is by far the ugliest character. I don't dislike ugly characters as a rule, but if they have no charisma or any interesting qualities besides, then... a one-dimensional or boring character that is pleasing to look at least has that. Cole doesn't even have that much.
That's all the reasons why I dislike him that I can think of off the top of my head. But honestly, it was instinctual. I felt I would dislike him from the first time I saw him and heard him speak, even before I learned all the "reasons".
If you like him, I am glad for you. I am also glad we can both choose to spend time with the characters we like (and on the games we like!).
Also, I like his Kung Lao hat.
I wish we could still deal with the final boss of each mission even after choosing one path. If you side with mages, the envy demon its still on the loose, never to be seen again, he could be infiltrating the inquisition and we wouldnt know it.
You can deal with envy using the bulls chargers
15:26 that aged like milk
I always have a hard time leaving the Templars to corypheus because I find their fate worse than that of the mages. If you side with the Templars the mages are indentured to tevinter but at least they retain their freewill, where the Templars arguably suffer a fate worse than death. I do tend to lean towards freedom for mages but also after how many mages in the entire Dragon Age series have gone off the wagon I see why the circle needs to exist but with Cassandra reforming the Templars to be more sympathetic to mages. Also there is no way the regular people of thedas don't try to go on witch hunts after the amount of chaos the mages cause repeatedly. Unfortunately for the mages in the series, they keep getting screwed over by their own leaders who make horrible decisions and make it impossible for them to live freely in peace
That's always a way I justify siding with the Templars
Sure the mages are having to work as Indentures. But they're not gutted like the Templars will be
I'm sure they're in pretty shitty situations, being bassically slaves. But they're valuable slaves, and Tevinter uses Slavery a lot, so they know the value of a useful slave. PLus they have a limit of 10 years before they get their freedom.
The Templars. Get destryoed, transformed into Monsters with the Red Lyrium.
Plus. The Templars would be a far better ally IRL
They're organized, and still a full organization. So they can be actually useful on their own, and know how to manage themselves
While the Mages, are a disorganized group composed of mages from all over the place, with a huge variety in power, ability, age, and usefulness. Left without direct oversight, they won't really know what to do (as we see since they immediately accepted the guy's offer. They weren't controlled into doing it. He just showed up at the right time)
So the Templars are better allies and have a far worse fate if left alone.
@@Canadian_Zac Plus the "rebel" mages don't care that their new cult buddies are horribly murdering the tranquils to find shards. Course the PC never really does anything about it either but at least pretends to have a moment on concern when they find the murder shack in town. I can't side with the mages because that part of the game is so badly written.
The Templars kinda deserve the fate they get. They were supposed to protect the Mages, help them stay clear of demons, Instead they imprisoned them, pushed them, killed them and drove them towards the very things they were supposed to protect the Mages from.
I know about the lore of the series and the other kingdoms rules with magic and how bad Mages can be too, I do believe there should be authority and control over them, but not by Tempelars under the fanatic chantry.
Throughout the series the majority of the Templars have been bastards, but the number of Mages gone "off the wagon" have been a minority of Mages.
@@f.m848 I get what you mean but I think that statement is more true for dragon age 2. In origins the templar's were actually pretty nice and caring, plus Gregor was completely right when he suspected jowan of being a blood mage and didn't just throw that accusation around like Meredith in 2. He even tried to save the mages from all the blood mages that took over the tower but had to pull back because his men were getting destroyed. The fact that he was willing to allow the grey warden to try and save the mages shows how much he cared. The templar's in 2 though were pretty awful. My issue with the mages in the games is that they repeatedly end up using blood magic and then losing control or becoming possessed making it hard to lobby for their freedom. I wish bioware had lessened how much damage mages caused within the series to make them more sympathetic as a group. The companion mages you get definitely make you want to side with mages but too many of the side mages caused way too much chaos. Say what you will about Vivianne but she does make some good points about why the circles are needed. I do like that Cassandra can restructure how the templar's work. Besides when you choose to save the templar's not many of them are mage hating and with Cassandra as the divine she can make them into a far better organization
@@delaneytakacs6301 too long dude, not gonna read all that.
“Here”
*Javelin Throws proof at her*
XD
I always side with the templars, but not for the reasons you mention.
First, Solas doesn’t like the templars, and since he is hell bent on destroying the veil, and essentially destroying most of the people currently living on Thedas, I want as many people who can suppress magic on my side as possible.
Second, many of the conflicts in these games center around the misuse of magic. It is easy to take templars for granted because they are painted as villains, but Cullen is right. We need templars to protect people from the negative effects of magic, including the mages.
Third, the level of chaos and destruction wrought by red templars doesn’t bear thinking about. The game indicates that they become stronger, faster, and lose all self control. There are no safeguards against OP rogue Templar monsters except the Inquisition, and even then it is pretty clear that only a select few are capable of dealing with them. And what about after Trespasser? The Inquisition is either severely weakened or entirely disbanded depending on the decision of the inquisitor.
I mean, I feel terrible for the mages for getting caught in the middle of things. It’s tragic that innocent people ended up dying, but I had to consider the big picture. I think more innocent lives would be lost without Templar protection (mages, and non-mages alike). Plus, you can still make changes to right the wrongs done to mages. Assuming that siding with the mages is the only way to bring about needed change is illogical.
Finally, someone talking sense. Big picture thinking. I also went that route.
It's true, one of the templar vows is to protect _everyone_ from dangerous magic, which includes mages. We've already seen that there's a large number of mages who just aren't capable of keeping themselves, or each other, in check when their magic gets out of hand or goes awry. Even when their intentions were true and they only meant well.
The games do show some rogue templars who seem to have forgotten this vow or twisted it for selfish ends, absolutely, but at its basic core tenants the templar philosophy is a reasoned, sound, and necessary one.
Vivienne explained it best. "Do you know how young mages are found? A little girl has a nightmare, and in her sleep, she burns her house down. A teenage boy has a fit, and lightning rips his mother to pieces. Imagine your own childhood and what would have happened if the darkest corner of your heart had a will of its own. People don't learn the fear of magic at chantry services, my dear. They learn it from us [mages]."
Mages didn't ask to be born this way, and it would be unfair to harshly condemn or punish them for something they cannot help, certainly, but with great power comes great responsibility. The templars are needed, and when their vows are applied correctly, they can achieve great things and minimize significant loss of life and damage.
Calpernia is def not coming lol. They don’t even give us the choice of if we side with templars or mages, they sure as hell don’t care about this choice
I'm fairly certain that if you never go to Redcliffe, and don't meet Dorian, he won't have the extra disapproval.
Great video! I've played both routes, but "Champions of the Just" has always been my go-to for my KE human F!Inquisitor. (I headcanon that she sides with them albeit being a mage, because she tries to see the good in the templar order as a whole in spite of their faults (which she doesn't agree with.) and that there is a need for order in the world.
I love the macabre atmosphere of the entire route. "In Hushed Whispers" is about the world, how you relate to it and your feelings, and saving it; "Champions of the Just" is about how you perceive yourself and what kind of leader you want to be. Almost as if it goes back to that particular moment where you are practically asked by your advisors, "Who are you and what do you stand for?" as they induct you into the position after arriving at Skyhold.
Mages have always been easy to side with throughout the series' narrative and to perceive templars as "public enemy number one" because of the majority of issues that we are shown. There is nothing wrong with it, but the absolute reality is that both sides have their faults too -- not all templars are oppressive, and mages are just as capable of harrowing deeds.
Throughout all 3 games the narrative is always pointed toward mages' and their struggles. We feel for mages because they have gone through some really awful things. And it's absolutely normal to feel empathetic towards them, and what most of them go through is really terrible. But what I love about "Champions of the Just" is that it shows that templars have their struggles too, and their system needs to change. Their higher-ups need to change and they absolutely NEED new leaders. And getting a fraction of the order as part of the Inquisition is part of the great step to doing just that, no matter how small it may be perceived by others/outside of the Inquisition.
I think if you're romancing cullen siding with the mages is the only right choice. It feels so good fighting Samson with him. It feels like he is letting go of his past completely and redeeming himself this way and you see more from cully wully
Let's be honest, the only reason to do the templar quest is the amulet you get off of Fiona in the attack on Haven. It gives a knight enchanter shield effect essentially to warriors or rogues and makes Cole actually viable as a squadmate.
Can get that in trials reward anyways.
The game honestly should've let us do both missions so we could have mages AND templars as our allies. It makes sense for the Herald's story-whether or not they're devout-since they already act as the bridge between the fade and the real world. Why can't they be the bridge between these two factions as well?
Why not have them finish what Justinia tried to start and solidify their position as Inquisitor in a more realistic way? All three games blatantly try to make you choose between one or the other while also showing that's exactly how everything goes wrong. There's always going to be mages just trying to survive and templars truly trying to protect them, mages commiting atrocities and templars right behind them completely out of their minds from fear.
Inquisition could've been about surpassing bias and prejudice, employing compromise despite one's beliefs or background just like the inquisitors companions but no.
Back in DA2 Anders blew up the chantry, murdering the Grand Cleric in the process, he explained it as removing the chance of compromise because there IS no compromise. Then in Inquisition, when there is finally a chance for peace talks between mages and templars, the orbs activation blows up the temple and kills the divine.
As the NEXT RELIGIOUS FIGURE wouldn't it have made SENSE for the HERALD. OF. ANDRASTE. Once given the chance to recruit both mages and templars for the breach, to then survive in Haven despite the odds after finally doing what everyone else in all three games tried but couldn't do? Wouldn't it have been great to actually fix a problem instead of simply restoring it to its former stable yet crumbling state?
If the next game, somehow and some way, tries make me choose between mages and 'whoever is oppressing them', I am going to commit war crimes. This is my manifesto.
I side with the mages when what I want is my bff Dorian sooner rather than later. Samson is such a 'bwa-ha-ha' caricature villain it's kind of unbelievable he would even be chosen by Corypheus for anything. I side with the Templars when I want a more interesting story, and I find the quest to obtain them one that just feels a little more fraught. In one playthrough I noticed that siding with the Templars makes Vivienne so happy that I now suspect if I play every other convo better she might become Divine (the only one I haven't managed yet...murderous for a completionist).
There is a bug that makes leliana gain points instead of losing them, which makes it 100% impossible to get Vivienne as divine if you pick mages as allies. You have to either go with templars or change the save file by lowering leliana's divine points properly every time if you're on PC
@@bushmorel7343 Well that explains A Lot. My most recent play Leliana wound up divine despite my best efforts. I actively told her no, I would not like it. shut Cassandra down too. Yeesh.
These Templars are the best of the best. The incorruptible ones with the courage to stand up for what’s right. IMO they truly want to protect people from magic not just persecute mages.
These mages are the worst of the worst they’re crazy unstable idiots willing to compromise themselves with blood magic and sell themselves into slavery. Their desperation makes them unsafe.
Obviously Bioware wanted the players to side with the mages and thus made accessing the Templar quest a bunch of hoops in itself, so you'd have plenty of time to change your mind and free those oppressed mages.
That said, while I do side mages more than Templars (because it's easier and when I play a mage, it's the logical choice), I do find the Templar quest more interesting. Both in Act 1 and the quests later.
"Obviously Bioware wanted the players to side with the mages and thus made accessing the Templar quest a bunch of hoops in itself, so you'd have plenty of time to change your mind and free those oppressed mages."
- Huh?? Acessing the mage quest requires a lot of stuff for you to do, you need to head to redcliffe, meet Fiona, then go back to your war table to activate the mage quest, all the while you have Cullen and Cassandra telling you to forget the mages and go meet the templars... Inquisition is biased towards the templars.
literally everyone tells you to get the templars in Haven. Cullen, Cassandra, random NPC's, mother giselle, The Maker, Falon'Din, The stone, they all say "get the templars"
@@Palpad100 no, Cassandra is actually a little more in the middle, and right after you meet Fiona she prefers to go save Redcliffe more than going to get the templars.
@@SeventhheavenDK she still disaproves if you say we should align with the mages.
@@Palpad100 No, she disapproves if you decide to free the mages. If you return the mages to Chantry oversight, she approves.
15:32 ya about that....
The best argument for siding with the templars in dragon age inquisition is the 6 Bonus points to your stats that you get from the statues in the nightmare segment of the champions of the just you get no such bonuses when siding with the mages and also if you are playing as a warrior and want to take the Templar specialization it is a good way to get most or all the broken philters that will be needed later on
Honestly, I side with Mages if romancing Cullen since it leads to a quest where you get to have Cullen tag along or if I'm playing a mage character, and Templars with a lot of other characters.
Also the Samson questline has a LOT less talking to Lelianna, always a bonus in my book
why do so many women hate leliana
@@DustdeviIs Didn't know dislike her was gender specific.
I don't like her because I don't like forced narratives in story based games. If you give me the option to make a choice that kills someone, don't force me to deal with them in later games. Plus she always felt really shallow as a character in the base game. Leliana's song was actually really fun and I like the version of her they showed in that, but I don't like how she is portrayed in Origins.
I think my issues with her are similar to my issues with Liara in Mass Effect. She feels very forced upon the player, she has thicker plot armor then anything I've ever seen, and much like Karlach in BG3 and Liara in ME, she doesn't seem to understand that just because I'm being nice doesn't mean I want to fuck her.
@@kitsu1379 really fair points! really hit the nail on the head on the Karlach bit too
I also choose the mages whenever I'm romancing Cullen. And since I always end up romancing Cullen (I simply cannot resist him 😅), I always pick the mages side. I enjoy the Samson hunt down quest with Cullen.
Leliana is also my least favourite (I don't hate her though).
Fun fact: If you go to the chantry and speak with Dorian before siding with the Templars, Dorian will be doubly pissed off at you and you won't get his loyalty quest, or romance option. I did that once and I was saddened that he was pissed off that I loaded to an earlier save and did not go to the Chantry but left as soon as Felix gave me his letter, did Champions of the Just, and managed to still get Dorian's missions after he rushed to Haven.
Actually, you can get his loyalty quest and his romance option. You just have to wait and get his approval up by attacking venatori on the world map. After that, his dialogue will be friendly again. But it was still shocking and unpleasant to have him hate me for so long.
I didn't notice, he gave me his immediately...
Watching Alistair scold his elf mage mother is why I pick the mage side.
Before I watch, I'll just say this. I picked the templars because I like they didn't side with the bad guys out of fear but they were tricked into using a harmful substance and corrupted that way.
The mages knowingly sided with a damn devil out of fear of losing like cowards. They'd sell their soul to win. That's why I pick templars.
5:34 Is there not a video for siding with the mages, so I can see the approval ratings? It's quite important to see, maybe.
Dan killing Alistsir’s mother how could you do that and not let Alistsir throw out his own mother from his kingdom 😂
I didn't know he threw her out
@@ShadowWolf42185 Yea, if he's king, he shows up after the end of the quest and says that he wanted to help the mages of offer them sanctuary but since they basically sold Redcliffe to the Magisters he has no choice but to exile the mage rebellion from Fereldan (I mean fair point all things considered the mages didn't really help themselves in the scenario.)
Oh yeah this I did remember. I read that like he knew she was his mother
@@ShadowWolf42185 I don't think so. If you recruit the mages and have Ali as the warden that shows up, or even as king, Inquisitor can talk to her and she mentions knowing Maric and she asks after Alistair but when the Inquisitor mentions introducing them she's all "NO no no. It's fine I was just asking." Ali doesn't know, remember in the first game he thought Goldanna was his family when he went to see her and thinks his mum is dead. There's no one who would have told him since Maric dead, I dunno if Eamon or Teagan know and if they did, they probably wouldn't tell him anyway and Fiona, while she does ask after him, makes no effort to actually know him to be able to tell him.
That’s not his real mother anyways, that’s just his dumb retcon mother 👎🏼
It's the most interesting quest and provides the better outcome for Thedas, as it prevents more templars from becoming red lyrium templars, and also wipes out most of Cory's Venatori.
It also makes the most sense in context of who shows up at Haven. The flashes of fire seen under the door in Haven makes more sense coming from Dorian than Cole. It also gives Dorian more character since he can already be introduced as someone who has infiltrated the Venatori. Having him show up during the attack makes more sense than Cole following the red templars all the way to Haven. Also, we learn that the monarch(s) of Ferelden are getting involved in helping Arl Teagan take back Redcliffe, so there's really no reason for the Herald to risk him or her self.
Something you forgot to mention is that Champions of the Just is far more beneficial to the Herald and meaningful to the plot. The Herald can gain ability points when facing Envy in the mind. The Herald can also actually strike back at Envy by seeing through the deceptions. There is also more variety, since the Herald can answer Envy's tests or take the hidden best option of ignoring the tests and not giving Envy what it wants. The Herald can even peer into Envy's mind and gain information from it. Then there's the fact that you are attending this gathering with Orlesian nobles, which is a testament to the Inquisition's growing influence, and it puts Envy back on its heels by presenting it with a situation it doesn't know how to deal with. Lucius' demand was that the templars be shown respect, so when that respect shows up on Envy's doorstep, it can't just refuse it. Also, Envy's nature plays against it and it craves the kind of recognition the Herald has. It makes mistakes and gets careless. It abandons the plan entirely, which means Cory's plan to trust a demon with this task backfires.
Samson's mistake is also illustrated here, in that he also trusts the Envy Demon to fulfill Lucius' role as intended and takes a hands-off approach to the situation when in fact he should have been overseeing all of it himself. Not only did he fail Corypheus by shirking his duties, but he failed his supposed red templar brothers as well by leaving them to the Envy Demon's incompetence. Although this does work out for Samson if the Inquisition doesn't get involved, it was still a needless risk he took by not being involved in the plan to create red lyrium templars. And of course Samson likely gets destroyed by Cory for his failures.
Then there are the extra options available, such as saving Lord Abernache and Ser Barris. Each can lead to their own extra outcomes and quests. Abernache can be paired up with Movran for some humorous content. Barris can be sent on Chore Table missions that can possibly culminate in his promotion, if the templars were made allies. Barris can also show up later in the Arbor Wilds fighting alongside the Inquisition's forces against red templar behemoths.
And of course siding with the templars improves the Inquisition's standing with the rest of the world, since the people see the templars as heroes from among the common folk.
In comparison, there is really no reason to go after the mages, especially after learning that Fiona sold her own people into slavery and that Alexius is setting a trap for the Herald and has time magic on his side. Better to let the Fereldans deal with him, and have templars on backup just in case things go wrong. And if you do go after the mages, it results in a bad future where your people get tortured and tormented, or outright killed. Even if you go back in time to undo that, it still technically happened in some reality.
The only real downside would be that mages as a whole look worse for siding with Cory. Regulations on mages will probably be much worse throughout Thedas, possibly reaching closer to Kirkwall's treatment. Still I agree with everything else you said.
The truth is the mages are a bigger threat with the time magic threatening to tear reality apart.
My inquisitor realized how dangerous this was and decided the templars could wait.
@@funnyblog100 But Alexius was the one wielding it, and he wasn't going to use it unless provoked by the Herald. Also, in theory, any plan the Herald may have had to defeat Alexius has already been experienced by Alexius and he has gone back in time to counter it. So the risk of confrontation is too great since there is no way to know if Alexius has already used time magic to counter your plan or not. He did use it to prevent you from recruiting the mages already, so chances are he could have used it again.
I like siding with the mages more, but I'll side with the templars in a few playthroughs. I like time travel, I like seeing Queen Anora and King Alister (my canonical landsmeet outcome)
The templars seem to be more fitting for the religious theme the Inquisition has, even if you play as an outspoken atheist. The only thing that bothers me is that you get Alistair’s cameo appearance (as king) and details about his mother only with the mages, which kinda feels like Bioware picking sides.
someone told me once when I asked who should I pick "Templars are trained to fight magic and the rift is a magical force. They're the ones who would be perfect for this."
and I've been picking them ever since.
my first playthrough, I of course picked the mages since my character was a mage.
in my mind, she should empathize with the mages.
now I just do what I personally think what's best and the templar mission is always fun to see and meeting Cole early is cool too!
That someone isn't thinking straight. The Rift is a Rift in the Fade, and Mages are experts for all things Fade. The "Templars are trained to fight magic" argument is like sending a few beat cops trained to fight armed goons against someone with a bunch of ICBMs with MIRV warheads. Good luck shooting those down with a handgun...
@@ohauss not really, they are at least swat considering it’s their primary task to deal with demons that take over mages.
@@ohauss It makes perfect sense actually with what templars can actually do. They weaken the rift enough so the inquisitor can close it. What the mages do seems way more risky in putting more power into the mark which seems way more risky and untested than what the templars can and have been shown to do time and time again. Additionally, the templars who helped the inquisitor close the breach were veterans.
If I have an issue with someone tampering with the Fade, I rather make sure I have specialists on the Fade at my side.
I like playing a pro circle mage who’s not a chantry apologist. With that being said I go with the templars. Them joining alone gives the inquisition a huge legitimacy and optics boost.
Going through your whole DA playlist and it is very fun to see our old friend the incompetent bald mage littered throughout the videos
Also I hope we see Calpernia in DA4, she could be a ally or heck even a squad member
I went the Templar route on my first playthrough, expecting that I was saving the best (mages) for last and that it would be akin to siding with the templars in 2. I was very pleasantly surprised.
I don't remember how I got it but in one of my sessions, that's took me months. I sided with the mages, made leliana divine and helped cass remake the seekers. It had an outcome where the Templar were replaced by the seekers, the circles were taken down but Viv remade them for those who believed in them. I might be mixing playthroughs up but I'm pretty sure it's the best ending. It also helps since ferelden views you in a positive light because of redclif in tresspasser.
I always side with the Templars simply for Barris and Calpernia. I'm excited to see what becomes of Calpernia in the next game and what role she may play.
@T90GoesBrrrrr it will come eventually
hopefully within our lifetime 🥲
we already have the name Dragon Age Dreadwolf
@@resolutogamer4859 it's been forever since we've received an update or news on the game's progress though
Both quest are great, but for me, In Hushed Whispers it's so damn epic and have the chance to see the wolrd being destroyed and with all hope lost because you failed, it's very dark. Also, Trevor Morris did a masterpiece with the soundtracks of IHW. God, see your friends almost dead and corrupted by red lyrium, demons everywhere, and then that last sacrifice of your friends and Leliana... I don't like Samson at all, but the quest is so much better than Champions of the Just. The only reason to side with Templars is to save Ser Barris, and I was so disappointed that he does nothing after that.
God, how much I searched on TH-cam for this crack and could not find it, and here you are, thank God
While the game makes it feel like you have to side with mages, the Templar side of the story is also pretty good.
Spoiler Alert:
Few things I liked more when sided with Templars:
1. The future thing in hushed whispers demonstrates the threat of the Elder one which is pretty good but the Fade part in the champions of the just demonstrates the power of the Inquisition and it could become if handled very poorly. I felt this a more personal story for the inquisitor than just a bad future story.
2. The non corrupted Templars actually help you fight the red templars once the plot is found out. Whereas the other mages just whine and they don't do anything even when everything is revealed. Fiona is very poorly written and Baris is much better written in that situation.
3. I felt that the Mages shot themselves in the foot here. They were given asylum in Redcliff but they just blindly agreed Alexius terms and kicked out the Arl which I felt very stupid. Whereas with the Templars, since the Templar order has a very strict hierarchy the lower rank templars are not in a position to question their superiors and that is how the corruption spread. It is actually kind of like a coup.
3. Calpernia is a better character than Samson. He is fine but Calpernia has better character arc.
4. The Red Templars are more challenging as enemy type than venatori mages.
Few things I didn't like:
1. Even though the Fade part is pretty good, you cannot interact with your companions/advisors in the fade which I felt is a huge missed opportunity. You can hear their sufferings but you cannot talk with them. In hushed whispers you can talk with the future characters and it is more interesting.
2. If you side with mages (either as allies or conscription) there is better follow up after the mages main quest. What I mean by that is you can talk with Fiona afterwards and also you can see and interact with her in the arbor wilds main quest as well.
But with templars, Baris just disappears and you cannot interact with him at all which doesn't make sense especially if you disband and recruit them into the Inquisition. If you support them as allies then there will be one judgement where he will be promoted that's all. It felt like the Templars just disappeared after the champion of the just quest and you won't have any first hand knowledge on what happened to them later (if you recruit as allies there will be few war tables as well but there will be nothing if they join the Inquisition)
In the end I felt like the writing for both sides are pretty good and it is worth playing them.
I agree with all this, I think though that most of the Templar interactions after siding with them come from the war table. Ser Barris has several operations that then lead to the promotion you mentioned. Other than that, there are throwaway lines and in general the public trusts the Inquisition more than if they side with the mages. Also upgrading the tower in Skyhold for Templars makes it feel more tangible.
But like you said, the reason I never side with the mages is they stupidly decided to enslave themselves to Alexius after being given asylum. And they spend most of their time whining, when the Templars actually take their duties responsibly. I never understood why people like the mages more. They kept making the wrong choices, and all the issues that starting the war could be solved if both organizations just had an uncorrupt order watching over them both to prevent abuse and misuse of authority.
The Circles were the best option overall for the mages, and they threw it away because they didn't like a few restrictions that were understandable after a mage BLEW UP the Chantry.
Sorry for the rant~
The only reason why I played CotJ one time was to save Barris and then he disappears! I was so mad. And by the way, for me, IHW is so much better, because it shows the wolrd after you failed and the Elder One became a God. It's really dark, your friends try to stop him and they die, also if you are a Leliana fan, that sacrifice at the end destroys you. Plus, you get Dorian early and for me he is so much better than Cole.
The Templars exist to monitor Mages.
If there are no Mages then there is no need for Templars.
I despise that this is a binary choice in this game at all. Both factions make compelling points. Give the Mages full freedom like I did and they rebel, proving the Templars point.
Mages are either going to the circle or they're going in a hole.
I really want to (but can't bring myself to) do a complete anti mage pro templar playthrough of all 3 games
I think it's a no brainer to side with the mages. You already HAVE templars even if you don't side with anyone, the ones from Haven. What you don't have is enough mages.
It has been quite a few years since I played any Dragon Age. I do not recall this quest line even though I played through Inquisition several times. I played DA1, 2, and Inquisition. I did not get to experience any of the DLC. I picked up DA2 for a steal at around $10 at a time when people were trashing the game. The DA community is not the best community as someone who ran into both toxic positivity leading to accepted bullying of certain individuals. As well as bigoted comparisons made between those who liked certain characters being toxicly linked to political view-points.
To be honest. The primary reasons I help the mages is because fiona is Alistairs true mother, I don't want Connor to die, and all that time travel magic is worrying
And as a side note, if Alistair or anora were gonna show up to redcliffe and kick them out of the castle then that might not have ended well
I believe Divine Vivienne is best equipped to handle the issues of Dreadwolf. Holy Inquisitor story has too many plot holes when looking at the big picture. Solas has already proven he’s an ancient dream walking bald elf with a foci orb, whose to say he wasn’t Shartan and appeared as the Maker in Andraste’s dream?
Because Shartan was Dalish.
@@TheSmolPrince Shartan the Liberator was supposedly born in Tevinter captivity and led many revolts but due to time his story may have been altered in the Canticle of Shartan with up to five separate people. Solas cites the canticle himself.
I always side with the Templars because
1. They look cool
2. They improve the Inquisition's military strength and they can fight demons and mages more effectively.
3. After the Inquisition wins the war Templars are going to be needed to control magic (especially blood magic). Obviously learning from past mistakes and implementing new methods.
Templars are like the police in RL in the terms of a few bad apples spoil the bunch. For every bad Templar there is more good ones.
When you have someone fiddling with the Fade, I take experts on the Fade over Judge Dredd wannabes any day of the week.
@@ohauss I'd rather take soldiers who have trained how to fight demons, magic and corrupted mages effectively since their child years compared to mages who can easily fall to a demon's temptations becoming an abomination.
I take it you haven't paid attention to the story as a whole
And you said "For every bad templar there are more good ones" the same thing could be said about mages lol
@@mattwordsworth9825 Did we play the same game? The templars were corrupted just as easily omg... 😷
@@mattwordsworth9825 Those same soliders who reneged on their purpose to establish their own dictatorship to establish doctrined of slavery that causes the mages to become a problem in the first place
Templars: need to be force fed mind control substance to make them serve Corypheus, still fight amongst themselves due to loyalty to Thedas.
Mages: immediately betray everyone to Tevinter willingly to save their own hide a little longer.
Real clear choice to be
Yeah, because being loyal to people who want you in chains or dead because you were born that way is smart idea.
@@TheShadowSentinel well that's a take without nuance that barely resembles the situation.
The Qunari want mages ACTUALLY dead or in chains.
The Tevinter want mages to rule, and keep literal slaves.
The rest of Thedas wants mages, which are people with extraordinary powers, to be enrolled in a system where they can be watched, educated, and sheltered so that they can hone those skills safely and learn how to use them safely, and it's not even unusual for them to be given leave to go about their lives if they prove to be loyal and in control. That system is in place because mages that exist outside the circle can lose their very souls to demons and become a danger to those around them as well.
Let's not pretend this is just unreasonable prejudice without reason or a massive violation of rights. It's a safety precaution, for EVERYONE, including the mages. That's why Vivian and the other loyal mages support re-instituting the Templar order.
There's no excuse or even emotional appeal that justified the Rebel Mages war, let alone them willingly becoming slaves to Tevinter and Corypheus.
@@finnl6887Nice argument, but I implore you to play the other games, especially origins, and see if you still think the Circle is justified.
They are forbidden from marrying
Seeing their parents, siblings and family ever again
Forbidden from having relations that aren't strictly academic
Forced to bow to the Chantry rule and given no freedom to express their own religions or desires
Forced into an abusive system where templars can just do what they want and without interference from a 3rd party, get off scott free (see Hawke killing Ser Alrik)
Able to be forced to become basically lobotomized if ever the Templars deem it necessary
And are allowed to be dragged down to the dungeons and tortured at any time for any reason
Just because "They could be dangerous" doesn't mean the Chantry has the right to treat them like they're not even people
@@jb111082 dude I started with origins, yes it's justified lmao. That game is rife with mages being wicked or accidentally possessed outside the circle, and the events in the circle going haywire are directly tied into that mageand his experiences with the darkspawn. Hell, the entire time I was doing the DLC I was thinking to myself "this Anders fucker is a walking warning sign why mages aren't trusted." Then 2 came and confirmed my gut feeling.
And 2 basically hammers that point home, especially with how it becomes a place of refuge for Bethany.
Circles are justified. Maybe they should not be chantry run, but the exceptions of mages that do okay outside of it are just that... exceptions.
Also, the Kirkwall circle was infamous for being way more abusive than normal, in most cases seekers and chantry officials do in fact intervene in cases of abuse. The sheer level of both demonic possession, apostates, and other problems in Kirkwall caused people to overlook many of the abuses there in particular. Many mages comment it's an infamous circle and not the norm.
@@finnl6887 So your whole argument is that they have the possibility to be dangerous, therefore they should be locked up and never allowed to see their families?
Dude, that's fucked. Anders was the exception, not the example, and besides you said there was no reason for the mage rebellion and I gave you 6 of them!
And the apostates that do good outside the chantry, they're exceptions to us because they're so hated and prosecuted that it's hard to exist outside the chantry,
I just want to say that you clearly don't pay attention to much, here. You said that there wasn't a good reason for the mage rebellion, and that's just false.
And Tevinter is honestly a good example of mages doing well without being oppressed, sure they're in power but it's not the mages to blame, it's the culture surrounding them. And would you look at that? There's hardly any abominations and blood mages. So this proves that mages can work well outside the chantry
As for Bethany, she was barely allowed to send you a letter after her harrowing!
I hate how you're taking the actions of a handful of mages who were apostates and using it as a reason to condemn all mages because that's a tactic used to condemn irl groups of people and it's terrible.
Between Inquisition and Magekiller, really hope Calpernia does return in Dreadwolf
Letting this video play for the views but on 0 volume 😭 don’t want any spoilers cause I’m doing my first play through and I’m on dragon age origins. Will return to watch again once I’m finished tho :)
I swear, they must have recorded Corripheus while standing behind a slowspinning room fan...
I always side with the Templars because 1) Templar dream allows you to collect added stats for the envy demon statue heads. The Enhanced Amulet of Barrier is OP on a rogue build (although it's weird we get it off a mage but our mage can't use it)
I've played through it a few times and always side with the templars
I had to side with Templars when I trieed to get the nightmare achievement since you could skip the Calpernia fight, even with the annoyance of the level design of In Your Heart Shall Burn it is significantly easier than Hushed Whispers IMO, getting Cole early and specing him correctly greatly reduces the difficulty during the Haven attack (I like specing my rogue early game).
You can just respec though? Unlike DAO you can buy a tacticians renewal,as many times as you have gold for
I was pro mage because we learn with Solas the true nature of the spirits, but Bioware decided that Vivienne was the canon ending for the holy mother, a person that in the paper have good ideals being conservationist but in the reality all she wants is power. Cassandra really drops the ball no matter what side you choose and Leliana is the only one that accomplishes something (better yet if you manage to side with templars and make her the divine).
I really hope that we can pick or choices from the Inquisition, or they do a online route for us to choose like they did with DA2.
no you got it wrong, throughout the game Leliana was the canon choice, Vivienne could be skip as a companion. Cassandra is a secondary choice, but we don't know what kind of divine she would be. if you talked to her enough, she does bring up how she would like to change things, she's just used to what she knows. but by being around the Inquisitor she learned alot, Vivienne can change her attitude some if you do a few things she approves of, but she would be the worst of the 3.
you can make your choises in Dragon Age Keep (since Dragons age Origins)
but isn't that a waste Cassandra or Leliana as the next Divine? Cassandra is a great warrior/tank companion and Leliana is a great spymaster...
and as someone who does not give a fuk about Vivienne or the Chantry I just rather lose her instead of the other 2
this is coming from someone who in the 1st playthrough picked Cassandra as the next Divine (such a waste... damn)
@AgX_28 Cassandra i can see, but your not really losing anything with Leliana. she even hints at the people under her, one or two are being groomed by her. now if you hardened her, losing her as the spymaster would hurt a little bit, because she'll act like she won't have time to find a replacement. she'll pour all of herself into her work, not realizing she's forgotten about those who work under her. if Leliana is soften, she's still has her bard training she's known for years, but part of how she became a spymaster was devoting alot of her time with the divine. since it was just her and Cassandra, they didn't have to worry about working with others. so she was able to focus on one thing, but in Inquisition now she has a full squad, something she didn't have much of previously. originally Leliana and Cassandra only had a small team to keep the divine safe, but things had to change based on what was happening in Kirkwall, the free marches, and southern ferelden. then the conclave happened, Varric was brought in a year before the Inquisitor for questioning. DA2 was Varric was giving his side of the story, but some years had past before Hawke & Varric encountered what we know of as the legacy dlc involving Corypeus. the entire game of DA2 only covered a span of 6 years total, the legacy dlc adds two more years. Inquisition takes place 10 years after the start of the blight, and 9 years later following the blight. so if you do the math, Hawke was only 23 at the time, now if you play as the canon Hawke which is a male they were 24, the female is a year younger. now why do i say 6, because the very beginning of the game up to that first year they worked there way to get into Kirkwall, that took a year and a half. the end of act 1 was another year following that first year into Kirkwall, well by the end of the second act two years had gone by. by this point your looking at roughly 4 years already, the end of act 3 was another year, but by that point the mage/templar war was no longer exclusive to Kirkwall, it spread down into ferelden, Orleis and other places. the legacy dlc is why most people play it last, because some time had past when you do that dlc. some people say it was year others say two, all i know is, it was the last thing Hawke was part of. that's why when Cassandra was questioning Varric, he had said i don't know where they are now. the truth is he did know, but Hawke had moved away from the city to get away for awhile, and only Varric most likely knew where they went. i wish Inquisition had some kinda prequel that could give an accurate timeline, because in DA2 they made it seem like the destruction at the conclave could've been that far removed. but according to the da wiki, Inquisition is exactly 10 years, it doesn't feel like it.
IMO the most important thing is the Templar quest has the Hidden 3 part quest which rewards some stats, the power gamer in me insists i do that :D
I tend to pick sides on how I want my inquisitor to feel like. I also take into account what happens when you play all the dragon age games, you tend to remember what the Templar dealt with in origins and how the mages are treated in DA2. I wished there was a middle ground because the Templars were ruthless to the mages and mages tend to not think things through. So I always choose based on how my inquisitor would choose and it feels right for that play through. I usually play as a mage so it's never an easy choice. Also if I'm an elf I tend to choose mages. But qunari easily Templar. It just make sense to me that way. Plus who I'm romancing/ what gender I'm playing plays hard into that decision too. (I.e if it's Dorian I want to meet him as soon as possible so hushed whispers it is, or Cullen, have to go with Templars) I take all these factors in too.
Right now I'm just a lawful yet all over the place, Necromancer Qunari mage that hooked up with Dorian. It's weirdly a poet Romeo and Juliette situation. It just works OK.
What my first ever inquisitor was a elven rift mage lady that fell for Cullen because Solas was being an asshole (what she tried, he shot her down. it was so sad) Cullen maybe a sad boy but he looked after his wife.
Then Cassandra in the second play through. After a while. human mage. Probably the best romance in the game. Did Templars in this one.
As much as I love mages I usually side with templars whether I play a mage or not,Stat points,better loot,table quests with ser boris and story wise it's just better when you side with templars
I've only sided with the templars once. I personally like the mage set of missions to go through more. Also it gives me my inquisitor's bff Dorian faster and it gives Cullen an extra mission xD
While I agree, Calperia storyline is objectively better, i still cannot help but side with mages becuase of how they are treated overall. A great injustice is done to them throughout Dragon Age Origin and 2, it only feels right to side with them.
I usually side with the mages because it seems if someone didn’t tamper with time they were going to side with you anyways.
I’m not going to blame someone for a horrible decision when someone manipulated time itself to manipulate them.
As for gameplay purposes, I like the dark future better. Only immediate benefit for Templars is meeting Cole sooner.
As the vid noted what happens AFTER recruiting the Templars has a better story than dealing with Sampson after recruiting the mages.
So mages recruitment>Templar Recruitment
Calpernia > Sampson for story plot.
I usually go with the mages generally because Redcliffe being taken over by Tevinters who are actually messing with time is a pretty major issue in and of itself.
@@pozzyvibes6997 Yeah also that. Kinda hard to ignore that problem.
@@ShadowProject01 But is that after part worth it? For me not by a mile.
Getting Cole sooner was enough of a reason for me lol. (Not to mention I never liked Fiona)
That Inquisitor looks like a cartoon face drawn on the back of a bald man's head.
The way that scroll is thrown looks like it could take her head off
From a story standpoint, the Templars is the way to go. Though I never just play from story standpoint, I always make the moralistic choice. That being to side with the mages, to free them from oppression for their art has been villainized. As well as standing against the modern Chantry that has strayed from Andraste’s will, it was she herself, the Bride of the Maker, who spoke the words “Magic should serve man, not rule him”. But what do these words really mean, would Andraste and the Maker, the creator of all His children, want to see mages bound, even those that did nothing wrong and attempt to stave off the demons that wish to possess them? I think not, what Andraste spoke of was ensuring that something like the Imperium never rose again, that magic would be held in equality to the mundane. The Chantry has forgotten this and perverted Andraste’s true ideals. The mages may not know them, but their freedom is what Andraste would truly want. I can never side with the organization that saw them chained like beasts for so long. There should be a way to get both sides to admit their faults and work together towards a grand future. Perhaps we may just get that in Dreadwolf, we can only hope.
You left out the permanent stat bonuses you get in the Templar story that are not available if you go mage
What’s that??
Honestly I really only ever side with the Templars. The only thing I ever regret in doing so is losing Fiona-- but by comparison having people who are able to nullify magic is more useful than people who will intensify the destruction of magic with more magic.
That and Calperina is just a more interesting villain than Samson.
It's been a while. Maybe I'll side with templars next time just so I can disband them and do an unfamiliar quest line since I usually side with mages
Yes, and if you were only allowed to play through once, that might be a real reason to choose the Templars. Since I've now listened to some of the English speakers, I can understand that you try to spice up the emotionless dialogues with a bit of story addition.
13:12
*smooth British voice* Here.
*inquisitor chucks scroll at Calpernia like a football*
I went with pro mage choices in DAO and DA2, the first time I played DAI was also with the mages and....I was underwhelmed with the mages quest (sorry Dorian! Still love him tho) But when I went with the Templars, it was DOPE. I never went back to the mages after that.
Found your channel a while back, love your content sir, highly entertaining! Ty for all the hard work bringing us this content!
I agree completely! Even before watching. I did both sides but the Templars are just a better option in DAI
The problem with siding with the templars is the game acts like you didn't and you fight against templars anyway. The game was obviously written to side with mages.
Calpernia, Ser Barris, and Making Vivienne the Divine. That's the only reasons anyone should choose those templar bastards.
Although conscripting the Mages actually gives alot of points to Vivienne to becoming Divine.
I just got the game, and must have missed this video. I chose the mages now I regret it. Templar is better.
My fist playthrough was a dalish mage where I sided with the mages.
My 2nd play I did a noble Templar and side with Templars so got both of them.
Honestly, as much as I think the templar storyline is cool... I just cant side with them. Not just for the whole moral aspect, because technically they are just doing their job. But mainly because.. killing an envy demon vs. stopping time magic seems like a no brainer- obviously the time magic is more of a threat than the demon. Plus.. more time with Dorian
I agree with most of what you say, but the mages have been treated worse throughout their lives..... The mages definitely gave them reason but you don't basically imprison everyone for the actions of a few.
That's why I always sided with the mages, i only sided with templars in my first playthrough
Yet most mage used blood magic and became abominations in DA2. They killed innocent people and tortured some of them. Yes the templars are wrong in mistreating .ages but that is no excuse for mages to loose their shit and become murderers.
@@darthsol658 you don't condemn the many for the actions of a few..
@ahamedramadan8030 I do. What happens if there are no Circles and mages get possess? Who's gonna stop them when there's no templars?
@@darthsol658 there is a difference between oppression and control. It's a bit grey but it's there.
I was able to control the mages and control the wardens in my playthrough. Isnt that the point?
I did a even split among the 4 playthroughs I've done of this game but definitely prefer the Templar side if thing.
The biggest highlight of siding with the mages was the time travel quest but aside from that it's just downhill from there with the enemy being crackhead Samson
Siding with the Templars you get Calpernia questline, Ser Barris questline, better Temple of Dumat, and more Venetori
On almost every playthrough i made i sided with the Mages for these main reasons:
1.Who cares about some A-hole when the Tevinter mages are using time magic to claim the chaotic newly freed mages
2. as my first ever playtrough of Origin was with human mage and then i had mage Hawke i kinda sympathize with their goal to free themselves
3. it always made more sence to me that mage boost to the Anchor is better than supressing the rift. I mean if they could supress the rift why cant they use the templars to close smaller rifts or atleast to seal them
Also i tend to either ally with the mages or leash the templars cause you know... templars were supposed to be this non-corruptable force, yet they became the root of the problem along with the wardens
The Templars act like complete assholes in Orlais and make you jump through additional hoops to talk to them while the mages ask to meet you right away, though. RP-wise it makes more sense to me to go with the mages. Even if you're not a supporter of the mages, it makes more sense to want to deal with them first to contain the danger they pose.
Also if you side with the Templars then you face Fiona in the attack of Haven and if you defeat her you win a amulet of aggresion which makes enemys attack more to the one who weare it, that is perfect for your tank companion so they stay focuse on him/her while you attack from behind and kill enemys quickly, but yeah i kinda don't like that because Fiona is Alistair real mother and you got to killer her, also you can win that amulet by doing challenges in that chest that gives you random items for doing challenges, oh and also if you side with templars you can win two agents for Cullen, you get Barris if he survive and another one but in order to get the last one you must NOT do the ritual of the templars (you miss oportunity to gain approval but it dosen't matter because is only 1 or 5 points) so one guy survives and then when you do the judgmet about a guy who assault your fortress with a goat you can make him join you and get him as a agent for Cullen xD
If you side with mages you only win one single agent for Leliana (that will be Alexius)
Too bad Cullen is the one who can get more agents, Leliana and Joshepine had more important mission where you need to choose them and they take more time, they need it more xD
There's also a few war table missions that you unlock if you side with Templars or Mages and in that order you win amulets of power for companions and other stuff, but that's pretty mess up and i hate it, you miss some good oportunities, is a very hard choice to begin which sides to choose, but just do what you would like more xD
You can get the goat man with either templars or mages 🤷🏼♂️
@@ironicly__iconic You can't if you go with the mages, you need alive the annoying guy who comes with you in the templar path for that :”3 i think you mean with other choices but those are bugged and you don’t get it unless you use this i say, the same happens with the dutches, so you need to kill her and you must use her remains as a table to get a agent 😂😂😂
Clearly not as good nor as mature as Dragon Age Origins but I still have a great memory of it, not counting the music which is just legendary
I always side with templars in every game. Blessed are those who stand before the corrupt and wiked and do not falter. Blessed are the piece keepers, the champions of the just 🙌
I played mage twice and sided with mages both times. I'm doing a dwarf warrior playthrough now. Sided with the Templars and i'm actually shocked how much better i like it.
Instead of the cliche and plothole filled time travel plot that involves you willingly stepping into a trap when you're literally the only person who can close the breach so its immensely stupid to risk the only known way to close the breach to save a bunch of mages who literally just didnt read the fine print of a deal they stupidly signed.
You can instead go "oh, mages doing bad stuff in redcliffe? ok, ima recruit these templars to help with that" which makes WAY more sense than stepping into a trap like a moron.
Plus Cole and Dorians intros work so much better. Cole saves you from the Envy demon and thus earns trust. Dorian, a bit annoyed you didnt walk into the trap shows up to help. Makes sense. If you side with the mages, Cole randomly shows up to warn you. This weird creepy spirit guy, completely out of the blue shows up, its very random feeling.