@@1957DLT Honestly mentioning that would have made it more of a gutpunch in that kind of playthrough, Its something justice would have tottaly done as well.
@@SeventhheavenDK But Justice would still be in the fade and during the attack of the keep the barrier to the fade would be so thin, that Justice could not only have sensed the situation, the despair and the need for justice inside of Anders but also could have possed Anders like Faith did with Wynn in the circel and that ist non arguable canon.
@Mickey Veach i can see it now. Zevran: wow , i am sure glad i did not get that job to murder the warden , though its odd they sent someone who look just like me.
I've always chosen to believe that Oghren survived you killing him in Origins by being so drunk that he passed out cold mid battle, leading the warden to believe they killed him and looted his "corpse", only for him to wake up later just before the start of the Awakening DLC. And as crappy a villain as Corypheus was, at least they give an explanation for it that makes some level of sense and more or less fits the lore. It's bjust a shame that they decided to make a dead DLC villain from a previous game the big bad for the next game, and that he wasn't that great, because his concept is really cool IMO.
It's not implausible that the warden just spared him (if dialogue about death was not picked it could be roleplayed that way, at least leave it ambiguous) or was sloppy (more likely given dialogue). As there are instances where were we "kill" (including kill animation) enemy in gameplay and they are still alive after the fight, such as Provings (arena fights). Albeit I find it a streach that the warden would be so incompetent to not make sure he is dead. Still beats whole spirits thing with Leliana which spirits just becomes her exact copy making death cheap as any death can be effectively reversed with spirt. Anders is especially atrocious example of retcon (as it's hard to argue it's anything else) not in scenario where he is killed in ending slide (which means you never saw his body or death and epilogues in first game were changed to just a rumors) but in scenario in which you don't make him a grey warden (either hand him to the templars or sending him away during attack on the keep) or even if you don't make him a great warden hand him off to the templar during the quest (albeit by that point he can be made grey warden), in addition you can kill Justice in awakening too. Meaning that Anders was never grey warden in your state, possibly was taken away by templars (who thought he murdered templars so I assume they would have killed or made him tranquil for that) and never meet Justice that was killed by the warden (which at best should mean he was send to the fade and never even meet Anders. However, even if that's in case, not only Anders returns as a grey warden even if he was taken by templars before conscripted but he is possessed by some miracle Justice that the warden killed.
It’s hinted at by dialogue and body language in the dlc that Corypheus possessed whom ever you sided with in the dlc. In the DA:I mission with Bianca this is made explicit by Varric after Bianca admits she contacted a warden mage to help with the research. If you had sided with Larius on the DA2 dlc he will be the mage she spoke to. Varric responds that he knew Larius and he was no mage, connecting the possession of him by Corypheus.
To be fair re: Flemeth, multiple characters in DA:O (including Morrigan, more than once) say that Flemeth probably isn't really dead, and that she'll be back eventually.
If I remember correctly, Anders was saved/resurrected by Justice (that's why they are connected in DA2, he probably even mentions it when you have an affair with him), and Corypheus has skills like an archdemon (if you kill him, he will be reborn in the nearest darkspawn/grey warden, but in the second case it takes full control, compared to the archdemon who dies when going to gray warden)
well for corypheus he does survive in Legacy whoever you sided with between the two wardens he will possess their body you can actually see it 11:38 in the video putting his consciousness into the warden's body cause of warden's having darkspawn blood within them. Thats why after the fight they seem to act odd or out of character
It is possible to miss that hint at the end of legacy. Having gone back recently to replay origins and 2 for a new save in inquisition, when I got to the end of legacy it clicked in my head why he survived. I understand why it seems so weird for others to see him as the main villain.
@@MissRyukkie Honestly he could have been a way cooler villain if they built up his confusion of the new world he arrived him seeing him adapt, be challenge on his beliefs a bit more, have more of a personality. The Corypheus we saw in Legacy is a million leagues more fascinating than what he became in Inquisition to just a run of the mill stock standard baddie in most anime filler arc.
@@1957DLT You hit the nail that was really our only scene with him, which was good but after that we never see him outside of mentions and the Well mission then the final battle. He had no presence after Haven, I would say Samson was more of the game’s villain than Cory
TBH Flemeth have her trinkets that contain parts of her so she could survive through them... and theres a theory about Leliana being something like the stone wraiths or even like Cole. As for Corypheus - it was explained that as the Archdemon he can transfer his essence into another corrupted body (gray wardens or dark spawn)
The point about Corypheus is a bad one, dude. Yeah, Hawke and co murder-death-killed him for sure, but at the end of the dlc it's HIGHLY implied that he took over the head of one of the Grey Warden companions you had with you at the time... and that was confirmed in Inquisition: that Cory can body hop Grey Wardens. I agree that he was a shit villain for DA:I though.
But Cory does get destroyed in the temple's explosion and resurrects off-screen, and he is destroyed by the magical statues in front of the Temple of Mythal and he soon resurrects in the corpse of a nearby Grey Warden.
Explanations for how each may have been resurrected (spoilers) Leliana: The version we see in DA2 and DAI is heavily theorized to be a spirit. Furthermore, due to her strange disappearance after Trespasser, I've seen people claim she's a lyrium ghost in some way connected to the Titans. Oghren: Outside of the "explanation" he gave, I honestly have no clue. He really should be dead. (I'm pretty sure you can also kill him after siding with Caridin, in which he joins Branka in attacking you) Flemeth: God shit. Also, Morrigan notes that she doesn't believe that killing her in Origins would permanently kill her. It's also possible Hawke's actions with the amulet allowed her survival. Anders: Possession by Justice. The explanation he gave for Nathaniel is likely a story he made up to keep heat off of him. Zevran: (Given his war table quest appears) No idea. Probably wasn't thought about by the devs and may just simply be a bug. Isolde: Bioware just doesn't care about end slides at all. I don't even know why they still put them in. I know part of it is to keep up the "unreliable narration" of the series (which is ever present in the codexes of all the games and the entirety of DA2), but it still seems cheap. Samson: Red lyrium. It's possible Meredith corrupted all of the executed ex-Templars, creating the first Red Templars. If she didn't execute them, this is still a distinct possibility. Corypheus: He's similar to the Archdemons in the way that he hops between bodies. He either possessed Larius or Janeka.
Leliana: Everything was cool until the "in some way connected to the Titans". Very unlikely, is more possible that she is just a lyrium ghost like the Guardian Temple you meet at the Gauntlet. If killed in Origins, she disappears at the end of Inquisition, it doesn't seem they are planning to expand beyond that, it is very obvious they just wanted to get rid of her for those who have killed her, they just included the ghost reason because there was a lot of backlash after her appearance (even in death) in DA2. Oghren: Even if the Warden sides with Cardin, he still fights at your side, he only disapproves with a -10. Flemeth: Just get rid of the "it's also possible" part. Because that's exactly what happened, it's not a possibility, it is a fact. Anders: The only problem with that is that Justice is not necessarily recruited. So Anders and Justice not necessarily always meet either. Samson: The creator of the video is just nitpicking there, Cullen doesn't even mention Samson was going to be executed like the mages, he only mentions Samson will be taken.
Corypheus wasn't an entirely "lame" big bad for Inquisition. The concept was sound, but the execution was awful. You only meet him like two or three times during the whole game. Only dealing with his flunkies or people he duped into helping him. They should have had you continually mess with his machinations with him being there, helping his allies from the shadows and you each defeating him and thinking he died. Then have him turn up again, more powerful than before and continue on with his plans like you killing him was an annoyance. Then have the third act of the game with the Inquisition trying to find a solution to stop him resurrecting himself. The fact that he can resurrect himself, killing him only slows him down and your character not being able to stop him makes him an extremely dangerous foe and they did nothing interesting with it. DAI was a good game but all the different open quest areas, as well as the zone stories, just seemed detached from the greater story.
@@BigDanGaming Or maybe it’s because they literally tell you that Corypheus was never the main villain. It was always Solas, Corypheus was just a means to an end.
For Flemeth, Morrigan states multiple times that even if you kill Flemeth she would not truly die, in fact she herself said that her death has only the use of buying her time to study the Grimoire
Totally disagree with half of them. Flemeth: It is not even a retcon in the first place. Morrigan clearly tells you in the first game, before and after you "kill" Flemeth, that you are not truly killing her, that she will find a way to come back, and the she needs to study the Grimoire for when that time comes, then again in Witch Hunt, Morrigan confirmed to the Warden that Flemeth is alive. In DA2 they just explain to you how is that Flemeth achieved her resurrection. Corypheus: At the end of DLC you can clearly see that Corypheus is possessing Larius/Janeka after you "killed" him, and that is later again explained in DAI. Samson: There is no mention at all that Samson was going to get executed as well, Cullen only mentions that he will be taken too, not that he would be executed too.
How Corypheus survived IS explained during inquisition He is like an archdemon His essence can transfer into the body of a living being corrupted by the blight that's nearby, like darkspawn or wardens, possibly red templars too Just like Mythal survived being struck down by the evanuris And how Flemeth prolonged her life by possessing the bodies of her 'daughters'
Flemeth actually does die if you kill her. She saves hawke in lothering before morrigans story quest is available, since the beginning of dragon age 2 begins immediately after the warden recruits either the elves, mages, or dwarves. The entire point of flemmeth giving hawke something to bring to the dalish keeper is as a security measure if she were to die.
I never saw that conversation between Nathan and Anders (at 6:18 ), but I can see how Anders' explanation would make sense. He survived the battle; thought that if he died (or if everyone thought he died), he would be free from the Wardens and the chantry/Templars; so he found a dead person with an unrecognizable face; dressed him up as Anders, then ran off.
The bigger question with Anders is about how he is what he is in DA2 if you let the Templars have him right at the start of Awakening. Dude never became a Warden or met Justice in that timeline yet somehow did both of those AND escaped the Circle AND destroyed his phylactery in the 6 months between Awakening and DA2 act1.
The Hero of Feraldin should be on the list too. If he dies killing the Archdemon at the end of Origins and you load that save into Awakenings, he's magically alive again.
Dragon age 4 should atleast at the start involve the Quanari invasion. And if the warden and Sten are in a playthrough we should see them meet but not clash on the battlefield. All that needs to be said is "Kadan"
Zevran is just majorly buggy Anders comes back because of justice probably, same way faith resurrected Wynne. At least there’s an already established lore explanation because Wynne straight up tells you that she died Ohgren was totally just a case of death being retconned for the purpose of story Lelianna is 100% a spirit like the guardians are. She died in a powerful and sacred place protecting the ashes. Yeah it’s a bit retconned but at least it’s a feasible explanation With what we know from the lore Flemeth actually has the game straight up telling you how she survived and not just “oh because bullshit.” They set her up to be a host of an elven goddess. Makes sense that only a elvish keeper would know the ritual to materialize her body from her soul
Corypheus can jump to any tainted creature. He takes over the body of whichever Warden you side with. Varic's girlfriend mentions them when you ask how she found the red lyrium.
For Liliana a good example for her survival was a small pinch of the ashes fell out onto the floor before the warden poisoned it and eventually the ashes brought her back to life
@@theunfamousone2818 Which might honestly explain the curative properties of the ashes in general, if you go with a more mage/non-divine approach to DA history.
As the other replies mentioned its tied to lyrium. To elaborate further if leliana by the end of Inquisition and trespasser is not the divine and has nothing more to she disappears with no other sign of her than some lyrium lump or something. You only get that ending if Leliana died in Origins. So the theory goes: The temple got its magic from all the lyrium underneath and surrounding it. Leliana was resurrected either by dormant lyrium healing powers from the temple OR was brought back alive to serve as a lyrium powered servant potentially by a titan underneath the temple
@@SeventhheavenDK there's not really such a thing as "ghost" im DA though. Then she's a spirit who took the form of Leliana similar to Cole ir the Divine
Has Heavily implied that if you kill Leliana in DAO its a spirit of veil that possess her and has her memories The Appareance of Flemeth at the beggining of DA2 take little time after the battle of Ostagar and her recue of the Warden and Aleister, the mission of her amulet that contains part of her in DA2 takes place a year later and if you kill her in Origins she said literraly you saved her life do its not a big retcon
I always saved Larius, but you can tell when Cory takes over Larius, because he talks different. While he loses it by the time you see him again in Dragon Age Inquisition, Corypheus has a sort of archaic, formal way of talking. Larius was more babbling, repetitive, probably due to the darkspawn corrupting going on, being pretty much past his calling. When you talk to him after Corypheus dies, the way he talks is a lot more like Corypheus. It's different enough that you are given an option to comment to him about it. Even Janeka, and it's less obvious since she was more coherent to start with, she only slips once with an 'My gratitude you have', that passive voice way of saying it? Very Corypheus. And identical to what Larius says. It's subtle, to be sure. Kind of like the 6th Sense, it becomes a lot more clear once you already know.
Jesus that dialogue... "You can't have been raised from the dead. That's absolutely... just... no!" Who talks like that? Who writes like that? I swear the writers were hired for some reason other than being good writers.
If I recall correctly, Cullen is actually mentioned in the origins endgame slides as having mental issues and killing mages in the circle before fleeing. And then he appears in DA2 as if none of that happened lol. I know this was dismissed as rumors later on, but still, like what the hell.
Ogren drinks anything and everything that you put in front of him. I can only assume he survived because at some point he drank something that had an adverse effect that makes him hard to kill. He probably doesn’t even know what he drank or when he drank it.
To be fair on the Isolde thing, we don't really get a time frame for when she had the child and died. And DA2 takes place starting DURING DA:0 (your character is escaping Lothering) in 9:30, and ends at 9:37. And you can do the 'Mark of the Assassin' pretty much any time during your playthrough, I think. But as long as she went home after showing up, then has her kid, she doesn't have to return from the dead to make her appearance. While it IS likely an oversight, there's some wiggle room to allow it.
mark of the assassin is always treated as an ambiguously placed side story sometime between the deep roads expedition and the fall of kirkwall so it could happen a year after the blight (and connor's death) it could happen 5 years after. somewhere in the 3-5 year range seems fair for birthing another child though still leaves a 2 year wiggle room for the party and her cameo
One fact to mention is that the "dead or alive" flags may bug when you import from DA:O to DA2, in my DA:O game Nathaniel Howe survived the atack to the fort but when importing the save to DA2 he is flagged as dead, so i didn't have his recue mission in DA2
@Ethan Schultz That is exactly the bug, the save transfer only recognizes the ones you have in your party as alive, even if you fully upgrade Warden's Keep and get the ending pictures saying they survive the save will flag then as "dead"
There is dialogue in DAI pertaining to Sampson if you side with the Templars instead of the Mages. In the quest where you explore the Dumat Shrine to find something to use against Calpernia (It's the place where you find the magister in the force bubble) one of the memory crystal things mentions that Sampson failed in some capacity, and now Calpernia is Corypheus' main lieutenant.
This is just an example of the main issue with Dragon Age. I think there are far too many variables that players have a choice in to change the game and Bioware can't keep them all if they want a coherent story and attempt to make the lore somewhat consistent. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love this series. It's just as much as they wanted to keep the choose your own adventure style of origins, it gets far too complicated the more games we have with some many data points to take into account.
Underscores the need to keep track of all those data points in series like Dragon Age. Lorekeeping is a full time job in a large fantasy property like Dragon Age.
I think BioWare just needs to explain Leliana's return better. I think they should simply say that anyone who dies in the Gauntlet is automatically returned, body and soul, to outside the Gauntlet. They could even restrict that revival to those who are truly faithful, such as Leliana and Wynne. The reason why Wynne can't be revived by the Gauntlet is because she was being kept alive by the Spirit of Faith. Without that, Wynne can't survive, even if the Gauntlet moves her body and soul to the exit. Corypheus body-jumps as Hawke destroys his body in Legacy. So that's technically not coming back from the dead. However, Corypheus flat out gets annihilated by magical statues in front of the Temple of Mythal and almost immediately comes back from the dead in the corpse of a nearby Grey Warden. So that qualifies him for this list. As for the number one spot, that should go to the Hero of Ferelden. The Hero can get soul-cancelled with Urthemiel when striking the final blow, and then come back in Awakening.
7:30 also he returns possessed, which canonically saved Wynne from death. 12:10 Corephyus actually has THE strongest case here - he body-surfed into whatever Warden you sided with, which is implied in the Legacy ending. This tracks with how Archdemons work in Origins, too.
its very funny that Oghren mentions that he woke up naked after you killed him, seems to be a nod to the fact that most players when they kill a character first remove all the gear.
No offense but Corypheus and Flemeth are super easy to understand. Corypheus is one of the very first darkspawn, which means he has similar abilities to an archdemon as many in the comments have already said. If anything, the archdemons likely get their ability to steal the bodies of tainted creatures from the 7 darkspawn magisters. Also, Coreypheus isn’t a “lame ass villain”, he was just never the main threat. The real villain was always Solas, Corypheus was comically evil for a reason. Flemeth’s is just as easy to explain even without the Mythal connection. When she meets the Hawkes outside of Lothering she gives Hawke an amulet that comes rains a piece of her being. She did this likely because she knew she’d die in Ferelden one way or another (if not killed by the warden then it’s likely the darkspawn overran her home). When you open the amulet in DA2 you’re basically just resurrecting Flemeth.
Another character you could theoretically add to the list is the Hero of Ferelden themselves. If you don't do Morrigan's dark ritual and have your Warden kill the Archdemon, then load the subsequent save into Awakening, your Warden is alive with absolutely no reference to them ever dying. I tried this once when I wanted to play through DA:O, sacrifice the Warden, play Awakening as the Orlesian Warden Commander, and then import that save into DA2. Turns out you can only do the Orlesian Warden Commander if you don't import an Origins save.
The DLC makes it abundantly clear Cory can body hop similar to an Archdemon, with the warden you talk to after "killing" Cory being clearly possessed. It's not a mystery or surprise Cory is still alive. That was the entire point of the DLC, to show how he escaped his prison in order to set him up for the next game. Serious question, did the guy making this video even play the DLC? Or spend even 30 seconds with Google to try to understand what happened in it?
I just played the dlc again about a day or 2 ago, and it's not "abundantly" clear if you side with larius (I have yet to side with the other one). Only with hindsight can you even come to the conclusion that he could be possessed.
@@alftuvik3820 idk, maybe I'm like a naive baby child. When I first played I had my other warden allies with me, they complained about the voices, then we killed cory and they were better, so I took (the in hindsight) probably not larius at his word, that he was better due to Cory's death. I also assumed corypheus would be like the architect and just be relegated to mentions in the next game. I could tell with those 2 that the magisters were gonna be hot shit in game 3, but I really didn't like that it was cory again, I really thought they were building up to a 3rd magister, who'd be stronger than Cory and Archie.
I wish people would stop calling them retcons or lore breaks or whatever. These are obscure choices of made to significant characters. Killing Leliana for example, who actually does that? Maybe in your edgelord evil playthrough, but a regular playthrough never picks these options. So writing a character out of the series because of a choice thats almost never taken by t he playerbase is flat out stupid. Also its completely ok for the series to offer choices in a game and then just say they arent canon. Thats ok.
Oghren BETTER appear in the new DA because there is a missing red-headed, crass, drunken dwarwen hole missing in my and my characters heart. Him and Sandal. 😥
Bioware has done this in Baldur's Gate 2 too. Several characters, including even Drizzt Do'Urden, could die in BG1, then you import your savefile to BG2 and they're alive and can comment on that.
This corpse-turning-into-bones-thing never really made sense to begin with. It is totally unrealistic even for an Fantasy RPG und is never brought up again in later games so one can say this mechanic is actually not canon. Considering this, Leliana´s and Oghren´s so called death is never really offical. I think the warden didn´t bother to even check wether they are dead and they hadn´t the medical equippment to surely diagnose death. Leliana: This lyrium ghost thing could explain her vision in DAO. Lyrium and the taint are alive, they are singing, they are connected. It´s some sort of a biological weapon. See the red lyrium. in this case the real Leliana died even before Origins and an powerfull unknown lyrium creature possesed Leliana embodiing her former self. The mountain of the Sacred Temple was also build on top of a huge lyrium deposit. But even if we say Leliana was real, the powerfull and living lyrium could have saved her, because it wanted to avenge the atrocity which killed her. Let´s wait until DA4 before we call this "WTF". It could still be explained. Oghren: When we say he never turned into a pile of bones, his death was never set in stone. Many people have been left for dead even in the real world and survied, because they fell in an uncouncious comalike state and their heartbeat and breathing rate was very low. Oghren´s health was never good, so it took just a bit to make him pass out. In the end he had the last laugh and his comeback is actually funny when you think of it. Flemeth: It is stated that she had the abillity to possess bodies. Her soul is a mix between the real Flemeth and Mythal. Therefore her former body would simply fall dead like we saw heir dead dragon body, but her soul simply wandered off as an bodiless beeing but later returned and possesed her corpse before it was too late. It would be very usefull for Flemeth to be thought as dead and it would fit well in her scheming plans she has. If she could have been really killed in DAO, then why did she fight an didn´t fly away? The risk would be too high for her. Anders: Justice very likely possessed dead Anders like Faith did with Wynne before their brains were dead. There are 5 minutes between your heart stop beating and your brain taking any damage due to the lack of oxygen. Wynne´s case is even orignal canon. Therefore this mechanic is´nt far-fetched. To Zevran and Isolde there is nothing to say. Samson likely had the chance to flee and Meredith covered that up because bad rep. Corypheus: His ability to posess warden´s bodies was explained in Inquisition. You can actually see it during the quest of Mythal´s temple. That was a huge amount of critic, but your video was still good and informative. I agree that some of them like Leliana, Oghren and Anders were revived, because Bioware wanted to use them in later games and that character recyceling is something to critize, but on the other hand some charcters are too good to simply waste, that all the deaths you mentioned have beliveable explanations even when their chance of survival was low. Leliana is the least explainable case.
You are getting a little wild with Leliana's explanation there. It is very obvious that she is the real Leliana in Origins, especially because if you don't kill her, then she doesn't disappear at the end of Inquisition, while if you killed her she does (that one is the ghost Leliana). I don't even think they are going to expand beyond that, Leliana doesn't seem to be planned for a major role in future games. Look at the endings, if she is alive she is already planning to retire and leave everything in the hands of her successors (like Harding). If she is dead then she disappears for completely, and even as a Divine, I don't think the Divine will have a major role in DA4, the Divine will probably just be mentioned here and there (all of them are called the same anyway), and if something, they will have just a cameo scene like King Alistair. The only reason they added the Lyrium ghost thing in Inquisition was to appease the fandom for the backlash they received when she appeared in DA2 with no explanation for those who killed her back in Origins, the ghost thing is just an afterthought. Edit: The bone thing can be considered just as canon, because while not coming back to later games, the bodies still disappear or disintegrate (and in Inquisition the animation is even worse). And Anders, just take in mind that Justice is not always present in the party, Anders may be in the Keep while Justice went with the Warden to the mother's lair, or simply Justice wasn't even recruited so they never met.
I remember when I defiled the Urn of Sacred Ashes just to see what would happen. Liliana, Wynn and Alistair were in my party at the time. It was, by far, the most brutal fight I've ever been in. Dark Souls has *nothing* on that.
Corypheus was never the main baddie in DAI anyway xD he was a distraction while they set up Da4’s baddie. Also, it worked great to show off to Cullen what a hero my Inquisitor was :D
I'd say Corypheus was the main antagonist of DA:I however, he was not the one pulling the strings. It's unfortunate they mishandled him so bad though. An unstoppable threat that can keep reviving himself and yet you only see him 3 times the whole game.
In regards to the end slides. I recall reading that Origins was ment to be a one and done game, since EA didnt have much faith in the project... but then the game was... well not a flop, to say the least, so EA pushed bioware for more... Besides, IIRC arent the sliders basically rumors anyways? could easily excuse it that way.
Agree. There are slides purposefully left vague after Awakening like the one where the Warden and a romanced still Warden Alistair both survived. It even gives several different locations as to where they might be and what they could be doing. I often think how much better DA2 could've been had EA actually given Bioware the proper amount of time to work on it. I like it, but I believe had they had enough time they could've given us something just as good as the first game, if not better.
I read somewhere that the main reason Leliana is brought back in later games if you killed her in Origins is because one of the devs admitted that he really liked her character, so they wrote her back into the story. I have never offed her myself because I find her too sweet with her love of shoes and nugs. She says in DAI that when she awoke the urn was gone. I have no problem believing that perhaps whoever took the urn tried the ashes on Leliana when they found her body to see if the ashes actually worked. To be fair anyone that has played SWTOR isn't surprised with characters, especially villains, returning in-game later on by Bioware. I'm looking at you Vitiate/ Valkorian/ Tenebrae lol.
How i see it is that like Cole. Leliana is a spirit if she was killed. She might not even know it just like Cole didn't at first. Some spirit just clinged to her, Faith, or something, maybe.
Oh, Leliana is more confusing than that! I literally didn't even enter the inn in my first playthrough of DAO. So she got murdered by sharks or whatever the hell, I don't care. Yet she showed up in DA2 anyway! (Isn't there a DA2 mission where she shows up and claims to be a companion to the Hero of Ferelden or something? I was like "buuulllshiiiiit, not in this save you were not.") However, I never imported that particular game to DAI so I don't know how that plays out there.
@@calcifur Oh, for real? I've always thought the former was the case. How does it go? Do they even acknowledge The Warden's death and return? I didn't know this as my Warden always survived with either Loghain or Alistair dying, or The Warden having the Old God Baby with Morrigan.
I don't think that counts as I think it's bug (like zevran) that was eliminated in dragon age keep and I'm not sure if I recall but doesn't it essentially rewrites your story as if warden sacrifice never happened and thus the warden never really died in the word state in the first place?
Given these are opinions you can do. I would say cannon is you didn't kill them. But if you did then they added these to kinda say you made the wrong choice..
From what I've been able to gather from my many playthroughs, there's a bit of dialogue if you sided with the Templars in Dumat's temple where he mentions Samson has failed but calpurnia stands ready.
In my last origins playthrough, Jowan managed to come back to life. I executed him after I saved Connor, and then after finishing the urn of sacred ashes quest he was somehow alive again to face judgement.
I've got to say... That Hulk Hogan mustache having off brand Solas..I think Kasumi said it best but instead of that Jacob "that elven inquisitor , mmmm💦" 😂😂💕
If you chose the Templars, there is a brief codex entry…somewhere I don’t remember, saying Samson was assumed to have been killed by old Cory by Calpernia.
Corypheus is akin to an arch demon in being able to posses another blighted creature when killed to revive, and what do you know, there's one with you the whole time
I always play Hawke as female, she is Ciri from The Witcher 3 The Wild Hunt after all, I also use the default look since you're forced to play that in the prologue using the mirror later to rid myself of the red stripe I never killed Oghren, option never came up thoughtful gift thoughtful gift, good to know he'll still reference it like Leliana. Perhaps rotten onion rotten onion, "it'll do sure" I got new modded slides for both Origins & Awakening, they make more sense with the sequels. Got so many mods, Flemeth looks more like she does in the sequels. Isabela looks closer to the way she looks in the sequel. Merrill and her whole clan look more like they do in the sequels. The Qunari have horns, and Sten doesn't (oh also remove Qunari files from natural bodies, not like you can romance Sten anyway lol 😝). Zevran never happened for me in the second game, but my Warden died and I exported that game directly into Dragon Age Exodus (modded name for Dragon Age 2). I didn't export a dead Warden into Awakening, Golems of Amgarrak & Witch Hunt. I once used a mod to give him body tattoos, so his dialogue makes more sense, but then it gave all male elves the same tattoos. Not like the natural bodies for Dragon Age Exodus gives Fenris his lyrium markings either, but I only romanced Merrill or Isabela anyway (for Origins, Alister & Zevran have their own achievement). Have a Dragon Age Exodus modded face for Zev, I love so many character changes they did for the sequel, he's not one of them
Default Marian as an archer is best. But I have her wear the stripe for certain occasions like hunting creatures or criminals, or during the Deep Roads, the meetings with the Qunari, or during the final conflict. The only major fight where she didn't have it on was when searching for her mother. Being informed of the lilies gave her the sense of urgency to find her mother, so she didn't bother putting it on.
For Leliana, there's a possibility that she got contact with the Urn of Sacred Ashes and resurrected, or it instantly healed her wounds or sth, because she does mention that when she woke up, the ashes were gone.
For your 6th they didn't bring back Corypheus willy nilly. It was heavily implied the grey warden you aided in that DLC had been taken over by Corypheus when they leave.
Dragon age has magic, Mass Effect doesn't (even though some people call biotic powers "space magic"), so many resuscitations happen because of it and usually make sense, while in ME it wouldn't be acceptable. Thanks to magic almost every blatant return from death has an explanation in my mind: Leliana is brought back from the ashes that cure everything, Flemeth is an elven goddess and sends something like an horcrux to Kirkwall, Anders is saved by Justice sharing his body with him, that's why they cannot be separated, Coryphaeus has the ability to jump in blighted corpses so he just does that after Hawke kills him. Also, Samson was never killed, Hawke encourages the templar to kill those who took active part in the coup and Cullen just says that he knew and to take him away. The non-deaths I agree are strange are Oghren and Zevran, but I can accept they were never really dead but only knocked out. And for Isolde, they kill her in the slides in childbirth, but as was well said, the games often forget what is said in the slides (like the land given to the dalish).
Yes, Flemeth's return makes more sense. It would also make sense for Abelas to return for those who killed him, since he was the guardian of the Well of Sorrows and it would be hard to believe he didn't have any "safeties" in place in case of betrayal or "death". Anders also makes sense to me because...Justice. He survives because Justice finds his body and inhabits it. This is also how he might still survive the ending of DA2, either revived, or Justice takes over his body. Here is how Isolde survived: She knew the magic spell: TEEEAAAGANNNNN! lmao Cory, well, he was using his dragon as a makeshift archdemon. Haha "In Dragon Age, practically everyone and their mother gets a Lazerus project." That's good.
Regarding Flemeth, if you speak with Morrigan after killing Flemeth she will say that she still doubts her mother is really dead, but at least you bought her some time for her mother's return. So Flemeth appearing in DA2 isn't that much of a retcon imo, more an explanation of how she did the thing Morrigan expected her to do. Apparently the epilogue slides are also meant to be interpreted as rumours and heresay after the events, not necessarily true stories. But that's more obviously the Dev's way of getting out of the stuff they changed later on!
Corypheus actually has a decent explanation for coming back though. He possesses either Janeka or Larius before he fully dies, which is the same power the Archdemons have according to DAO. I can’t speak for Janeka cuz I’ve never sided with her, but Larius acts NOTICEABLY differently before and after Corypheus’ ‘death’.
You can see Corypheus possess Larius or Janeka in the background of the Legacy DLC cutscene. Its to set up his ability to body hop like an archdemon
There's also some stuff in their dialogue and if you look at their eyes.
Yeah I’m surprised he overlooked this
Ah, good to know
@@pearsemolloy9656 tbh its easy to miss. I didn't know until I read it in the comments.
I honestly only caught it in my last playthrough so I can see how it would be overlooked.
I always explained it to myself that Anders survived because Justice saved him by possessing him before he was completely dead
I think a lot of us when with that retcon too.
@@1957DLT Honestly mentioning that would have made it more of a gutpunch in that kind of playthrough, Its something justice would have tottaly done as well.
The problem is that he is still there even if you don't even recruit Justice.
@@SeventhheavenDK But Justice would still be in the fade and during the attack of the keep the barrier to the fade would be so thin, that Justice could not only have sensed the situation, the despair and the need for justice inside of Anders but also could have possed Anders like Faith did with Wynn in the circel and that ist non arguable canon.
Can confirm Zevran's war table mission shows up regardless if he's dead.
I second this. I played inquisition recently and was confused when i saw his quest pop up
@Mickey Veach
i can see it now.
Zevran: wow , i am sure glad i did not get that job to murder the warden , though its odd they sent someone who look just like me.
That's really dumb.
So unless you're literally just a background character, you're immortal.
I've always chosen to believe that Oghren survived you killing him in Origins by being so drunk that he passed out cold mid battle, leading the warden to believe they killed him and looted his "corpse", only for him to wake up later just before the start of the Awakening DLC. And as crappy a villain as Corypheus was, at least they give an explanation for it that makes some level of sense and more or less fits the lore. It's bjust a shame that they decided to make a dead DLC villain from a previous game the big bad for the next game, and that he wasn't that great, because his concept is really cool IMO.
With Corypheus we see that he escapes before you can kill him. So this isnt that same lvl of bs like leliana oghren or Anders
He sure reminds me of Delilah Copperspoon from the Dishonored games.
Hell, you can even speak to Corypheus in Larius body and it's very obvious that he's in there
It's not implausible that the warden just spared him (if dialogue about death was not picked it could be roleplayed that way, at least leave it ambiguous) or was sloppy (more likely given dialogue). As there are instances where were we "kill" (including kill animation) enemy in gameplay and they are still alive after the fight, such as Provings (arena fights). Albeit I find it a streach that the warden would be so incompetent to not make sure he is dead. Still beats whole spirits thing with Leliana which spirits just becomes her exact copy making death cheap as any death can be effectively reversed with spirt.
Anders is especially atrocious example of retcon (as it's hard to argue it's anything else) not in scenario where he is killed in ending slide (which means you never saw his body or death and epilogues in first game were changed to just a rumors) but in scenario in which you don't make him a grey warden (either hand him to the templars or sending him away during attack on the keep) or even if you don't make him a great warden hand him off to the templar during the quest (albeit by that point he can be made grey warden), in addition you can kill Justice in awakening too. Meaning that Anders was never grey warden in your state, possibly was taken away by templars (who thought he murdered templars so I assume they would have killed or made him tranquil for that) and never meet Justice that was killed by the warden (which at best should mean he was send to the fade and never even meet Anders. However, even if that's in case, not only Anders returns as a grey warden even if he was taken by templars before conscripted but he is possessed by some miracle Justice that the warden killed.
He prob crapped himself to also make the warden believe he was dead
It’s hinted at by dialogue and body language in the dlc that Corypheus possessed whom ever you sided with in the dlc. In the DA:I mission with Bianca this is made explicit by Varric after Bianca admits she contacted a warden mage to help with the research. If you had sided with Larius on the DA2 dlc he will be the mage she spoke to. Varric responds that he knew Larius and he was no mage, connecting the possession of him by Corypheus.
Flemeth stuff is also explained when you do the side quest of her ritual in DA2. Hawke essentially brings her back to life after HoF killed her.
With Flemeth I just go with she knows how to make hororcruxes
Morrigan also states several times in DAO that, even if you do kill Flemeth, Morrigan doubts she's actually dead.
Ooooooh ok that actually make sense
If Leliana is really a spirit or lyrium-ghost or whatever, that means there's a DA timeline with a spirit as the divine which is interesting.
"The details of my death have been greatly exaggerated."
To be fair re: Flemeth, multiple characters in DA:O (including Morrigan, more than once) say that Flemeth probably isn't really dead, and that she'll be back eventually.
If I remember correctly, Anders was saved/resurrected by Justice (that's why they are connected in DA2, he probably even mentions it when you have an affair with him), and Corypheus has skills like an archdemon (if you kill him, he will be reborn in the nearest darkspawn/grey warden, but in the second case it takes full control, compared to the archdemon who dies when going to gray warden)
In my playthrough anders saved Justice’s life due to him (his body) dying at vigil’s keep
well for corypheus he does survive in Legacy whoever you sided with between the two wardens he will possess their body you can actually see it 11:38 in the video putting his consciousness into the warden's body cause of warden's having darkspawn blood within them. Thats why after the fight they seem to act odd or out of character
Not to mention in Inquisition you get to see him possess another warden right after he gets gibbed
It is possible to miss that hint at the end of legacy. Having gone back recently to replay origins and 2 for a new save in inquisition, when I got to the end of legacy it clicked in my head why he survived. I understand why it seems so weird for others to see him as the main villain.
@@MissRyukkie Honestly he could have been a way cooler villain if they built up his confusion of the new world he arrived him seeing him adapt, be challenge on his beliefs a bit more, have more of a personality. The Corypheus we saw in Legacy is a million leagues more fascinating than what he became in Inquisition to just a run of the mill stock standard baddie in most anime filler arc.
@@DiscordN7 Best thing about Inquisition Cory was his Haven entrance. After that he was such a disappointing 'villain'.
@@1957DLT You hit the nail that was really our only scene with him, which was good but after that we never see him outside of mentions and the Well mission then the final battle. He had no presence after Haven, I would say Samson was more of the game’s villain than Cory
"You tried to kill me! Hahaha, didn't stick."
That's how the devs feel about our decisions. It's that easy to throw them away.
TBH Flemeth have her trinkets that contain parts of her so she could survive through them... and theres a theory about Leliana being something like the stone wraiths or even like Cole. As for Corypheus - it was explained that as the Archdemon he can transfer his essence into another corrupted body (gray wardens or dark spawn)
The point about Corypheus is a bad one, dude. Yeah, Hawke and co murder-death-killed him for sure, but at the end of the dlc it's HIGHLY implied that he took over the head of one of the Grey Warden companions you had with you at the time... and that was confirmed in Inquisition: that Cory can body hop Grey Wardens.
I agree that he was a shit villain for DA:I though.
He was just the prop for the DREAD WOLF
@@supergirlvideoclips894 oh Yeah. DA:I was a masterclass in "How to build a great villain.. for the next game" 😁
But Cory does get destroyed in the temple's explosion and resurrects off-screen, and he is destroyed by the magical statues in front of the Temple of Mythal and he soon resurrects in the corpse of a nearby Grey Warden.
That cut from Leliana talking about dying and being resurrected to your guy just standing there KILLED me lol, that mustache is something else
Joining with Justice also makes Anders coming back more believable
Explanations for how each may have been resurrected (spoilers)
Leliana: The version we see in DA2 and DAI is heavily theorized to be a spirit. Furthermore, due to her strange disappearance after Trespasser, I've seen people claim she's a lyrium ghost in some way connected to the Titans.
Oghren: Outside of the "explanation" he gave, I honestly have no clue. He really should be dead. (I'm pretty sure you can also kill him after siding with Caridin, in which he joins Branka in attacking you)
Flemeth: God shit. Also, Morrigan notes that she doesn't believe that killing her in Origins would permanently kill her. It's also possible Hawke's actions with the amulet allowed her survival.
Anders: Possession by Justice. The explanation he gave for Nathaniel is likely a story he made up to keep heat off of him.
Zevran: (Given his war table quest appears) No idea. Probably wasn't thought about by the devs and may just simply be a bug.
Isolde: Bioware just doesn't care about end slides at all. I don't even know why they still put them in. I know part of it is to keep up the "unreliable narration" of the series (which is ever present in the codexes of all the games and the entirety of DA2), but it still seems cheap.
Samson: Red lyrium. It's possible Meredith corrupted all of the executed ex-Templars, creating the first Red Templars. If she didn't execute them, this is still a distinct possibility.
Corypheus: He's similar to the Archdemons in the way that he hops between bodies. He either possessed Larius or Janeka.
Leliana: Everything was cool until the "in some way connected to the Titans". Very unlikely, is more possible that she is just a lyrium ghost like the Guardian Temple you meet at the Gauntlet. If killed in Origins, she disappears at the end of Inquisition, it doesn't seem they are planning to expand beyond that, it is very obvious they just wanted to get rid of her for those who have killed her, they just included the ghost reason because there was a lot of backlash after her appearance (even in death) in DA2.
Oghren: Even if the Warden sides with Cardin, he still fights at your side, he only disapproves with a -10.
Flemeth: Just get rid of the "it's also possible" part. Because that's exactly what happened, it's not a possibility, it is a fact.
Anders: The only problem with that is that Justice is not necessarily recruited. So Anders and Justice not necessarily always meet either.
Samson: The creator of the video is just nitpicking there, Cullen doesn't even mention Samson was going to be executed like the mages, he only mentions Samson will be taken.
Just played Dragon Age Origins. Ohgren doesn’t turn hostile if the Warden sides with Cairidin
Wynne had died in the tower. That's where the spirit brought her back.
Corypheus wasn't an entirely "lame" big bad for Inquisition. The concept was sound, but the execution was awful. You only meet him like two or three times during the whole game. Only dealing with his flunkies or people he duped into helping him. They should have had you continually mess with his machinations with him being there, helping his allies from the shadows and you each defeating him and thinking he died. Then have him turn up again, more powerful than before and continue on with his plans like you killing him was an annoyance. Then have the third act of the game with the Inquisition trying to find a solution to stop him resurrecting himself. The fact that he can resurrect himself, killing him only slows him down and your character not being able to stop him makes him an extremely dangerous foe and they did nothing interesting with it. DAI was a good game but all the different open quest areas, as well as the zone stories, just seemed detached from the greater story.
Yeah I think he was mostly wasted potential. Interesting concept, poor execution
Yeah this game is about the bald elf .. I mean wolf.
@@BigDanGaming I can agree with this
@@BigDanGaming Or maybe it’s because they literally tell you that Corypheus was never the main villain. It was always Solas, Corypheus was just a means to an end.
Oooh I like this idea, I think that would’ve been a lot more interesting! You should’ve been in the writer’s room!
Bioware: So many characters don't stay dead!
Player: Soooo...even the Warden can come back?
Bioware: Hahaha.....no.
Also Bioware: we r not gud with canon so we just do what we want (but you ahead and fill up your Dragonagekeep Tapestry!)
In Awakening, yes.
For Flemeth, Morrigan states multiple times that even if you kill Flemeth she would not truly die, in fact she herself said that her death has only the use of buying her time to study the Grimoire
Totally disagree with half of them.
Flemeth: It is not even a retcon in the first place. Morrigan clearly tells you in the first game, before and after you "kill" Flemeth, that you are not truly killing her, that she will find a way to come back, and the she needs to study the Grimoire for when that time comes, then again in Witch Hunt, Morrigan confirmed to the Warden that Flemeth is alive. In DA2 they just explain to you how is that Flemeth achieved her resurrection.
Corypheus: At the end of DLC you can clearly see that Corypheus is possessing Larius/Janeka after you "killed" him, and that is later again explained in DAI.
Samson: There is no mention at all that Samson was going to get executed as well, Cullen only mentions that he will be taken too, not that he would be executed too.
How Corypheus survived IS explained during inquisition
He is like an archdemon
His essence can transfer into the body of a living being corrupted by the blight that's nearby, like darkspawn or wardens, possibly red templars too
Just like Mythal survived being struck down by the evanuris
And how Flemeth prolonged her life by possessing the bodies of her 'daughters'
Flemeth actually does die if you kill her. She saves hawke in lothering before morrigans story quest is available, since the beginning of dragon age 2 begins immediately after the warden recruits either the elves, mages, or dwarves. The entire point of flemmeth giving hawke something to bring to the dalish keeper is as a security measure if she were to die.
Fun Fact about Samson (if Templars are recruited) Cory said that Samson "failed." That gives the idea that Samson was killed off because he failed.
I never saw that conversation between Nathan and Anders (at 6:18 ), but I can see how Anders' explanation would make sense. He survived the battle; thought that if he died (or if everyone thought he died), he would be free from the Wardens and the chantry/Templars; so he found a dead person with an unrecognizable face; dressed him up as Anders, then ran off.
yeah. they'd already established anders doesn't like being cooped up (was it 7 times he broke out of the tower or 6?) so i kinda bought it.
The bigger question with Anders is about how he is what he is in DA2 if you let the Templars have him right at the start of Awakening.
Dude never became a Warden or met Justice in that timeline yet somehow did both of those AND escaped the Circle AND destroyed his phylactery in the 6 months between Awakening and DA2 act1.
Reminds me of a character in classic movie Loaded Weapon 1
Cop: Wait didn't you die earlier?
Becker: I thought this was the sequel.
The Hero of Feraldin should be on the list too. If he dies killing the Archdemon at the end of Origins and you load that save into Awakenings, he's magically alive again.
Hes secretly spirit possessed. Lol
Dragon age 4 should atleast at the start involve the Quanari invasion. And if the warden and Sten are in a playthrough we should see them meet but not clash on the battlefield. All that needs to be said is "Kadan"
To add to that clash, I'm not put off by the idea of Sten declaring the Warden basalit-an. Sten did become the Arishok, after all
Zevran is just majorly buggy
Anders comes back because of justice probably, same way faith resurrected Wynne. At least there’s an already established lore explanation because Wynne straight up tells you that she died
Ohgren was totally just a case of death being retconned for the purpose of story
Lelianna is 100% a spirit like the guardians are. She died in a powerful and sacred place protecting the ashes. Yeah it’s a bit retconned but at least it’s a feasible explanation With what we know from the lore
Flemeth actually has the game straight up telling you how she survived and not just “oh because bullshit.” They set her up to be a host of an elven goddess. Makes sense that only a elvish keeper would know the ritual to materialize her body from her soul
Man I need a Dragon Age Legendary Edition. I missed too much DLC content
Corypheus can jump to any tainted creature. He takes over the body of whichever Warden you side with. Varic's girlfriend mentions them when you ask how she found the red lyrium.
For Liliana a good example for her survival was a small pinch of the ashes fell out onto the floor before the warden poisoned it and eventually the ashes brought her back to life
It has something to do with lyrium, it has weird attributes and oghern says the temple was built on top of lyrium filled moutain
@@theunfamousone2818 Which might honestly explain the curative properties of the ashes in general, if you go with a more mage/non-divine approach to DA history.
As the other replies mentioned its tied to lyrium. To elaborate further if leliana by the end of Inquisition and trespasser is not the divine and has nothing more to she disappears with no other sign of her than some lyrium lump or something. You only get that ending if Leliana died in Origins. So the theory goes: The temple got its magic from all the lyrium underneath and surrounding it. Leliana was resurrected either by dormant lyrium healing powers from the temple OR was brought back alive to serve as a lyrium powered servant potentially by a titan underneath the temple
@@Ghilannugs . Or she is just a ghost, and that's all.
@@SeventhheavenDK there's not really such a thing as "ghost" im DA though. Then she's a spirit who took the form of Leliana similar to Cole ir the Divine
Has Heavily implied that if you kill Leliana in DAO its a spirit of veil that possess her and has her memories
The Appareance of Flemeth at the beggining of DA2 take little time after the battle of Ostagar and her recue of the Warden and Aleister, the mission of her amulet that contains part of her in DA2 takes place a year later and if you kill her in Origins she said literraly you saved her life do its not a big retcon
" 'Twas a plot device, Milord!" - Me, 2022
I always saved Larius, but you can tell when Cory takes over Larius, because he talks different. While he loses it by the time you see him again in Dragon Age Inquisition, Corypheus has a sort of archaic, formal way of talking. Larius was more babbling, repetitive, probably due to the darkspawn corrupting going on, being pretty much past his calling.
When you talk to him after Corypheus dies, the way he talks is a lot more like Corypheus. It's different enough that you are given an option to comment to him about it.
Even Janeka, and it's less obvious since she was more coherent to start with, she only slips once with an 'My gratitude you have', that passive voice way of saying it? Very Corypheus. And identical to what Larius says.
It's subtle, to be sure. Kind of like the 6th Sense, it becomes a lot more clear once you already know.
Ah yes I call that the "somehow Palpatine returned" situation
5:02 “[Flemeth] swoops down.”
Alistair Disapproves -1
"Yes, swooping is bad."
Jesus that dialogue...
"You can't have been raised from the dead. That's absolutely... just... no!"
Who talks like that? Who writes like that? I swear the writers were hired for some reason other than being good writers.
Flemeth (Mythal) have the power to split her life essence like Voldemort. So it’s understandable she’s immortal as an Evanuris.
If I recall correctly, Cullen is actually mentioned in the origins endgame slides as having mental issues and killing mages in the circle before fleeing. And then he appears in DA2 as if none of that happened lol. I know this was dismissed as rumors later on, but still, like what the hell.
Ogren drinks anything and everything that you put in front of him. I can only assume he survived because at some point he drank something that had an adverse effect that makes him hard to kill. He probably doesn’t even know what he drank or when he drank it.
To be fair on the Isolde thing, we don't really get a time frame for when she had the child and died. And DA2 takes place starting DURING DA:0 (your character is escaping Lothering) in 9:30, and ends at 9:37. And you can do the 'Mark of the Assassin' pretty much any time during your playthrough, I think. But as long as she went home after showing up, then has her kid, she doesn't have to return from the dead to make her appearance. While it IS likely an oversight, there's some wiggle room to allow it.
mark of the assassin is always treated as an ambiguously placed side story sometime between the deep roads expedition and the fall of kirkwall so it could happen a year after the blight (and connor's death) it could happen 5 years after. somewhere in the 3-5 year range seems fair for birthing another child though still leaves a 2 year wiggle room for the party and her cameo
Leliana is secretly a elven god, with amnesia.
The whole point of Corypheus is that he's managed to unlock the secret of practical immortality. It's central to the story of Inquisition.
Too drunk to die? Sounds like a joke Robin Williams made about some president saying Murica is too big to fail. "that's like saying too fat to die"
3:05 what’s even funnier with Oghren’s death is that he can die a second time at vigil’s keep if he’s left behind to defend it
One fact to mention is that the "dead or alive" flags may bug when you import from DA:O to DA2, in my DA:O game Nathaniel Howe survived the atack to the fort but when importing the save to DA2 he is flagged as dead, so i didn't have his recue mission in DA2
@Ethan Schultz That is exactly the bug, the save transfer only recognizes the ones you have in your party as alive, even if you fully upgrade Warden's Keep and get the ending pictures saying they survive the save will flag then as "dead"
There is dialogue in DAI pertaining to Sampson if you side with the Templars instead of the Mages. In the quest where you explore the Dumat Shrine to find something to use against Calpernia (It's the place where you find the magister in the force bubble) one of the memory crystal things mentions that Sampson failed in some capacity, and now Calpernia is Corypheus' main lieutenant.
Well done, Daddy. Such a fun series.
This is just an example of the main issue with Dragon Age. I think there are far too many variables that players have a choice in to change the game and Bioware can't keep them all if they want a coherent story and attempt to make the lore somewhat consistent. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love this series. It's just as much as they wanted to keep the choose your own adventure style of origins, it gets far too complicated the more games we have with some many data points to take into account.
Underscores the need to keep track of all those data points in series like Dragon Age. Lorekeeping is a full time job in a large fantasy property like Dragon Age.
1:48 HOLY SHIT thats some scary inquisitor.
I think BioWare just needs to explain Leliana's return better. I think they should simply say that anyone who dies in the Gauntlet is automatically returned, body and soul, to outside the Gauntlet. They could even restrict that revival to those who are truly faithful, such as Leliana and Wynne. The reason why Wynne can't be revived by the Gauntlet is because she was being kept alive by the Spirit of Faith. Without that, Wynne can't survive, even if the Gauntlet moves her body and soul to the exit.
Corypheus body-jumps as Hawke destroys his body in Legacy. So that's technically not coming back from the dead. However, Corypheus flat out gets annihilated by magical statues in front of the Temple of Mythal and almost immediately comes back from the dead in the corpse of a nearby Grey Warden. So that qualifies him for this list.
As for the number one spot, that should go to the Hero of Ferelden. The Hero can get soul-cancelled with Urthemiel when striking the final blow, and then come back in Awakening.
7:30 also he returns possessed, which canonically saved Wynne from death.
12:10 Corephyus actually has THE strongest case here - he body-surfed into whatever Warden you sided with, which is implied in the Legacy ending. This tracks with how Archdemons work in Origins, too.
its very funny that Oghren mentions that he woke up naked after you killed him, seems to be a nod to the fact that most players when they kill a character first remove all the gear.
it was heavily hinted that Flemeth and Corypheus were not dead.
No offense but Corypheus and Flemeth are super easy to understand. Corypheus is one of the very first darkspawn, which means he has similar abilities to an archdemon as many in the comments have already said. If anything, the archdemons likely get their ability to steal the bodies of tainted creatures from the 7 darkspawn magisters. Also, Coreypheus isn’t a “lame ass villain”, he was just never the main threat. The real villain was always Solas, Corypheus was comically evil for a reason.
Flemeth’s is just as easy to explain even without the Mythal connection. When she meets the Hawkes outside of Lothering she gives Hawke an amulet that comes rains a piece of her being. She did this likely because she knew she’d die in Ferelden one way or another (if not killed by the warden then it’s likely the darkspawn overran her home). When you open the amulet in DA2 you’re basically just resurrecting Flemeth.
Another character you could theoretically add to the list is the Hero of Ferelden themselves. If you don't do Morrigan's dark ritual and have your Warden kill the Archdemon, then load the subsequent save into Awakening, your Warden is alive with absolutely no reference to them ever dying.
I tried this once when I wanted to play through DA:O, sacrifice the Warden, play Awakening as the Orlesian Warden Commander, and then import that save into DA2. Turns out you can only do the Orlesian Warden Commander if you don't import an Origins save.
Coryphaeus was lame ass villain, but it both foreshadowed and explained in the game how he done it.
You know Ander’s death makes sense too I mean he could pulled the same thing as Wynne thanks to justice
Read the quest complete description of Flemeth's grimoire and it was sort of telling us that you really didnt kill her or she did let you kill her.
"Death closes all doors" . Unless your a dragon age character or Commander Shepard.
The DLC makes it abundantly clear Cory can body hop similar to an Archdemon, with the warden you talk to after "killing" Cory being clearly possessed. It's not a mystery or surprise Cory is still alive. That was the entire point of the DLC, to show how he escaped his prison in order to set him up for the next game. Serious question, did the guy making this video even play the DLC? Or spend even 30 seconds with Google to try to understand what happened in it?
I have the same question.
I just played the dlc again about a day or 2 ago, and it's not "abundantly" clear if you side with larius (I have yet to side with the other one). Only with hindsight can you even come to the conclusion that he could be possessed.
@@ShmuckLord385 I have only sided with Larius and I thought the game pretty much told us that he was possessed, it wasn't exactly trying to hide it.
@@alftuvik3820 idk, maybe I'm like a naive baby child. When I first played I had my other warden allies with me, they complained about the voices, then we killed cory and they were better, so I took (the in hindsight) probably not larius at his word, that he was better due to Cory's death. I also assumed corypheus would be like the architect and just be relegated to mentions in the next game. I could tell with those 2 that the magisters were gonna be hot shit in game 3, but I really didn't like that it was cory again, I really thought they were building up to a 3rd magister, who'd be stronger than Cory and Archie.
Corypheus' dlc is a setup for Inquisition, we might not know about his ability to revive at that point but the writers were
I wish people would stop calling them retcons or lore breaks or whatever. These are obscure choices of made to significant characters. Killing Leliana for example, who actually does that? Maybe in your edgelord evil playthrough, but a regular playthrough never picks these options. So writing a character out of the series because of a choice thats almost never taken by t he playerbase is flat out stupid.
Also its completely ok for the series to offer choices in a game and then just say they arent canon. Thats ok.
Oghren BETTER appear in the new DA because there is a missing red-headed, crass, drunken dwarwen hole missing in my and my characters heart. Him and Sandal. 😥
Bioware has done this in Baldur's Gate 2 too. Several characters, including even Drizzt Do'Urden, could die in BG1, then you import your savefile to BG2 and they're alive and can comment on that.
This corpse-turning-into-bones-thing never really made sense to begin with. It is totally unrealistic even for an Fantasy RPG und is never brought up again in later games so one can say this mechanic is actually not canon. Considering this, Leliana´s and Oghren´s so called death is never really offical. I think the warden didn´t bother to even check wether they are dead and they hadn´t the medical equippment to surely diagnose death.
Leliana: This lyrium ghost thing could explain her vision in DAO. Lyrium and the taint are alive, they are singing, they are connected. It´s some sort of a biological weapon. See the red lyrium. in this case the real Leliana died even before Origins and an powerfull unknown lyrium creature possesed Leliana embodiing her former self. The mountain of the Sacred Temple was also build on top of a huge lyrium deposit. But even if we say Leliana was real, the powerfull and living lyrium could have saved her, because it wanted to avenge the atrocity which killed her. Let´s wait until DA4 before we call this "WTF". It could still be explained.
Oghren: When we say he never turned into a pile of bones, his death was never set in stone. Many people have been left for dead even in the real world and survied, because they fell in an uncouncious comalike state and their heartbeat and breathing rate was very low. Oghren´s health was never good, so it took just a bit to make him pass out. In the end he had the last laugh and his comeback is actually funny when you think of it.
Flemeth: It is stated that she had the abillity to possess bodies. Her soul is a mix between the real Flemeth and Mythal. Therefore her former body would simply fall dead like we saw heir dead dragon body, but her soul simply wandered off as an bodiless beeing but later returned and possesed her corpse before it was too late. It would be very usefull for Flemeth to be thought as dead and it would fit well in her scheming plans she has. If she could have been really killed in DAO, then why did she fight an didn´t fly away? The risk would be too high for her.
Anders: Justice very likely possessed dead Anders like Faith did with Wynne before their brains were dead. There are 5 minutes between your heart stop beating and your brain taking any damage due to the lack of oxygen. Wynne´s case is even orignal canon. Therefore this mechanic is´nt far-fetched.
To Zevran and Isolde there is nothing to say. Samson likely had the chance to flee and Meredith covered that up because bad rep.
Corypheus: His ability to posess warden´s bodies was explained in Inquisition. You can actually see it during the quest of Mythal´s temple.
That was a huge amount of critic, but your video was still good and informative. I agree that some of them like Leliana, Oghren and Anders were revived, because Bioware wanted to use them in later games and that character recyceling is something to critize, but on the other hand some charcters are too good to simply waste, that all the deaths you mentioned have beliveable explanations even when their chance of survival was low. Leliana is the least explainable case.
You are getting a little wild with Leliana's explanation there. It is very obvious that she is the real Leliana in Origins, especially because if you don't kill her, then she doesn't disappear at the end of Inquisition, while if you killed her she does (that one is the ghost Leliana).
I don't even think they are going to expand beyond that, Leliana doesn't seem to be planned for a major role in future games.
Look at the endings, if she is alive she is already planning to retire and leave everything in the hands of her successors (like Harding).
If she is dead then she disappears for completely, and even as a Divine, I don't think the Divine will have a major role in DA4, the Divine will probably just be mentioned here and there (all of them are called the same anyway), and if something, they will have just a cameo scene like King Alistair.
The only reason they added the Lyrium ghost thing in Inquisition was to appease the fandom for the backlash they received when she appeared in DA2 with no explanation for those who killed her back in Origins, the ghost thing is just an afterthought.
Edit: The bone thing can be considered just as canon, because while not coming back to later games, the bodies still disappear or disintegrate (and in Inquisition the animation is even worse).
And Anders, just take in mind that Justice is not always present in the party, Anders may be in the Keep while Justice went with the Warden to the mother's lair, or simply Justice wasn't even recruited so they never met.
Sounds like something out of Monty Python.
“Well how did you know she died?”
“Well I saw the Warden kill her!”
“You did!?”
“… She got better.”
I remember when I defiled the Urn of Sacred Ashes just to see what would happen. Liliana, Wynn and Alistair were in my party at the time. It was, by far, the most brutal fight I've ever been in. Dark Souls has *nothing* on that.
The beginning of Dragon Age 2 is happening at the same time that Ostagar is being overrun
Croypheus being able to survive his body being killed is a plot point within inquisition itself
I think the reason that Leliana and Oghren feels so egregious is because it's invalidating player choice and not just an off screen or end slide
Corypheus was never the main baddie in DAI anyway xD he was a distraction while they set up Da4’s baddie. Also, it worked great to show off to Cullen what a hero my Inquisitor was :D
I'd say Corypheus was the main antagonist of DA:I however, he was not the one pulling the strings. It's unfortunate they mishandled him so bad though. An unstoppable threat that can keep reviving himself and yet you only see him 3 times the whole game.
Your comment makes no sense, if he was the "distraction to set up for DA4's baddy, then he is clearly the baddy of DAI.
In regards to the end slides.
I recall reading that Origins was ment to be a one and done game, since EA didnt have much faith in the project... but then the game was... well not a flop, to say the least, so EA pushed bioware for more...
Besides, IIRC arent the sliders basically rumors anyways? could easily excuse it that way.
Agree. There are slides purposefully left vague after Awakening like the one where the Warden and a romanced still Warden Alistair both survived. It even gives several different locations as to where they might be and what they could be doing. I often think how much better DA2 could've been had EA actually given Bioware the proper amount of time to work on it. I like it, but I believe had they had enough time they could've given us something just as good as the first game, if not better.
I read somewhere that the main reason Leliana is brought back in later games if you killed her in Origins is because one of the devs admitted that he really liked her character, so they wrote her back into the story. I have never offed her myself because I find her too sweet with her love of shoes and nugs. She says in DAI that when she awoke the urn was gone. I have no problem believing that perhaps whoever took the urn tried the ashes on Leliana when they found her body to see if the ashes actually worked.
To be fair anyone that has played SWTOR isn't surprised with characters, especially villains, returning in-game later on by Bioware. I'm looking at you Vitiate/ Valkorian/ Tenebrae lol.
How i see it is that like Cole. Leliana is a spirit if she was killed. She might not even know it just like Cole didn't at first. Some spirit just clinged to her, Faith, or something, maybe.
Oh, Leliana is more confusing than that! I literally didn't even enter the inn in my first playthrough of DAO. So she got murdered by sharks or whatever the hell, I don't care. Yet she showed up in DA2 anyway! (Isn't there a DA2 mission where she shows up and claims to be a companion to the Hero of Ferelden or something? I was like "buuulllshiiiiit, not in this save you were not.") However, I never imported that particular game to DAI so I don't know how that plays out there.
Grey warden should be on the list. You can sacrifice yourself to defeat the archdemon and import to awakening
If The Hero of Ferelden dies in Origin, you play as a different Warden Commander in Awakening.
@@einheisenburg I've done it. You can import your character exactly the same. Everyone remembers you.
@@calcifur Oh, for real? I've always thought the former was the case. How does it go? Do they even acknowledge The Warden's death and return? I didn't know this as my Warden always survived with either Loghain or Alistair dying, or The Warden having the Old God Baby with Morrigan.
@@einheisenburg It's the same as if Alistair or Loghain made the sacrifice.
I don't think that counts as I think it's bug (like zevran) that was eliminated in dragon age keep and I'm not sure if I recall but doesn't it essentially rewrites your story as if warden sacrifice never happened and thus the warden never really died in the word state in the first place?
They made a tradition out of it. *MAGIC*
Given these are opinions you can do. I would say cannon is you didn't kill them. But if you did then they added these to kinda say you made the wrong choice..
From what I've been able to gather from my many playthroughs, there's a bit of dialogue if you sided with the Templars in Dumat's temple where he mentions Samson has failed but calpurnia stands ready.
In my last origins playthrough, Jowan managed to come back to life. I executed him after I saved Connor, and then after finishing the urn of sacred ashes quest he was somehow alive again to face judgement.
I've got to say... That Hulk Hogan mustache having off brand Solas..I think Kasumi said it best but instead of that Jacob "that elven inquisitor , mmmm💦" 😂😂💕
8:49 I'm back from the dead TEEEE-GANNNNN
Did Liliana pop up on the war table with The Inquisitor, Cassandra, and Scout Hardy? At the end of DAI trespasser still?
If you chose the Templars, there is a brief codex entry…somewhere I don’t remember, saying Samson was assumed to have been killed by old Cory by Calpernia.
Corypheus is akin to an arch demon in being able to posses another blighted creature when killed to revive, and what do you know, there's one with you the whole time
I always play Hawke as female, she is Ciri from The Witcher 3 The Wild Hunt after all, I also use the default look since you're forced to play that in the prologue using the mirror later to rid myself of the red stripe
I never killed Oghren, option never came up thoughtful gift thoughtful gift, good to know he'll still reference it like Leliana. Perhaps rotten onion rotten onion, "it'll do sure"
I got new modded slides for both Origins & Awakening, they make more sense with the sequels. Got so many mods, Flemeth looks more like she does in the sequels. Isabela looks closer to the way she looks in the sequel. Merrill and her whole clan look more like they do in the sequels. The Qunari have horns, and Sten doesn't (oh also remove Qunari files from natural bodies, not like you can romance Sten anyway lol 😝).
Zevran never happened for me in the second game, but my Warden died and I exported that game directly into Dragon Age Exodus (modded name for Dragon Age 2). I didn't export a dead Warden into Awakening, Golems of Amgarrak & Witch Hunt. I once used a mod to give him body tattoos, so his dialogue makes more sense, but then it gave all male elves the same tattoos. Not like the natural bodies for Dragon Age Exodus gives Fenris his lyrium markings either, but I only romanced Merrill or Isabela anyway (for Origins, Alister & Zevran have their own achievement). Have a Dragon Age Exodus modded face for Zev, I love so many character changes they did for the sequel, he's not one of them
Nice..
Default Marian as an archer is best. But I have her wear the stripe for certain occasions like hunting creatures or criminals, or during the Deep Roads, the meetings with the Qunari, or during the final conflict. The only major fight where she didn't have it on was when searching for her mother. Being informed of the lilies gave her the sense of urgency to find her mother, so she didn't bother putting it on.
I think Leliana’s survival makes sense by thinking the ashes healed her as one last act of Andraste
For Leliana, there's a possibility that she got contact with the Urn of Sacred Ashes and resurrected, or it instantly healed her wounds or sth, because she does mention that when she woke up, the ashes were gone.
She's a lyrium ghost!
I've never let oghren die.. He's too fun to have around... Hope him n varric are in 4
For your 6th they didn't bring back Corypheus willy nilly. It was heavily implied the grey warden you aided in that DLC had been taken over by Corypheus when they leave.
Best Ohgren line,well fart me a lullaby!😆😆😆
Dragon age has magic, Mass Effect doesn't (even though some people call biotic powers "space magic"), so many resuscitations happen because of it and usually make sense, while in ME it wouldn't be acceptable.
Thanks to magic almost every blatant return from death has an explanation in my mind: Leliana is brought back from the ashes that cure everything, Flemeth is an elven goddess and sends something like an horcrux to Kirkwall, Anders is saved by Justice sharing his body with him, that's why they cannot be separated, Coryphaeus has the ability to jump in blighted corpses so he just does that after Hawke kills him.
Also, Samson was never killed, Hawke encourages the templar to kill those who took active part in the coup and Cullen just says that he knew and to take him away.
The non-deaths I agree are strange are Oghren and Zevran, but I can accept they were never really dead but only knocked out.
And for Isolde, they kill her in the slides in childbirth, but as was well said, the games often forget what is said in the slides (like the land given to the dalish).
Yes. Great video and subject. Please, more Dragon Age and specifically DA:I.
on Oghren's case, maybe even the stone rejected the drunken dwarf and threw him back to life..
Yes, Flemeth's return makes more sense. It would also make sense for Abelas to return for those who killed him, since he was the guardian of the Well of Sorrows and it would be hard to believe he didn't have any "safeties" in place in case of betrayal or "death".
Anders also makes sense to me because...Justice. He survives because Justice finds his body and inhabits it. This is also how he might still survive the ending of DA2, either revived, or Justice takes over his body.
Here is how Isolde survived: She knew the magic spell: TEEEAAAGANNNNN! lmao
Cory, well, he was using his dragon as a makeshift archdemon.
Haha "In Dragon Age, practically everyone and their mother gets a Lazerus project." That's good.
Regarding Flemeth, if you speak with Morrigan after killing Flemeth she will say that she still doubts her mother is really dead, but at least you bought her some time for her mother's return.
So Flemeth appearing in DA2 isn't that much of a retcon imo, more an explanation of how she did the thing Morrigan expected her to do.
Apparently the epilogue slides are also meant to be interpreted as rumours and heresay after the events, not necessarily true stories. But that's more obviously the Dev's way of getting out of the stuff they changed later on!
Corypheus actually has a decent explanation for coming back though. He possesses either Janeka or Larius before he fully dies, which is the same power the Archdemons have according to DAO. I can’t speak for Janeka cuz I’ve never sided with her, but Larius acts NOTICEABLY differently before and after Corypheus’ ‘death’.