It's already obvious that the new fare gates DO NOT curb fare evasion. If they did, why do there need to be 3 uniformed police officers standing around watching the gates? Officers should be patrolling the platforms and train carts for the people openly smoking, assaulting/pushing people, etc.
Also, NYC spent $150 million on police to catch fare evaders that added up to $104,000 in fares. Ridiculous. Make it free for everybody and tax the rich occupying those insane skyscrapers on billionaires row.
These new gates probably didn't increase the fare evasion at all. The width has NOTHING to do with why people are able to get through them. If it did, people would be going in side to side... just think about it.
A poor design, high school kids can still jump over it. Gates allow multiple entries, as shown here. Sliding bars or high impact resistant glass panels could be used. A smaller version of the rotating door as used in hospitals might work but would probably restrict capacity in rush hour. Add an additional split upper bar to the existing turnstiles to stop jumpers, that might be a lower cost solution.
They only now started to clean again aw cute until they stop again and eric adams ain't getting them homeless something and they nutty people checked and clean so us tax payers can suffer and tourist get hassled by bums day in day out! And then if they come at us side ways we "can't give them hands mainly cause most them dirty but some legal bs or whatever cause eric adams don't care about us nor does our employer i'm sick and tired sure we all are!
These type of gates are very common in European undergrounds and they don't seem to have this problem. The issue is really the dishonesty of the riders.
@@lojosol It’s almost like not enforcing the law emboldens people to break those laws.... how much money did they spend on this? where you dropped on your head?
The pushing is a safety issue. It gives room for people especially elderly, injured, and disabled to fall or twist their ankle. It also gives room for pickpocketing
Dear Amd 270: Yes: You'll see the strategy of this light-hearted situational skit taught by the *innocent upstanding* -- played out in full by today's *hard-core* generation players.
This isn’t about evasion at all. It’s about a contractor buddy charging hundreds of millions to install these things. This is how they make money. The fare evasion is just a front /facade
I've been saying for years even before these new shits were announced These machines have lobbies who love paying off the mta types worldwide. Like it's cheap to pull out and install these new gates, all paid for by out tax money while mta execs get "donations" from the manufacturers of these gates
In other countries like Japan and Taiwan, you have to swipe to get into the gate and swipe to get out of the gate. If you did not swipe in, you would not be able to swipe out and the alarm goes off. The ticketing agents are watching all gates. That's how they catch you for fare evasion.
In other countries the barriers don't go to the ceiling, it's like 4 feet tall and the bars run horizontal. Most people don't climb over them. The citizens just don't do that. If they do the barriers that shirt here we will be doomed.
Countries like Japan and Taiwan don’t have the societal problems that America has. They do have some of our problems, but not to the degree that America has. What is the demographic make up of Taiwan? Predominantly or all Chinese. What is the demographic makeup of Japan? 98% Japanese. The Japanese are very protective of their homeland. America is NOT. The Japanese are taught from a young age, you must do what is right for Japan. They are not taught to be individual thinkers. The nail that sticks out gets hammered! If a Japanese person sticks out they get isolated from the rest of society. I have visited Japan 5 times. My best friend is Japanese. Fare evasion and shoplifting are just unheard of. Even if a person who is born outside Japan to Japanese parents, that person isn’t really considered Japanese if they were not born in Japan. And if that someone is half Japanese and half another race, even if born in Japan, they are not considered Japanese. It’s impossible to compare a country Japan to the United States, because our cultures and our behavior patterns are completely opposite, like night and day.
@@BrooklynMusicForum The gate does not open when the alarm goes off and you cannot jump over the gate because it is too tall. Otherwise, you can choose not to exit the subway station if you don't wanna pay.
A buzzer for piggy backing is useless unless there's someone there to enforce. It's like the gates we have now. There's a buzzer that goes off. Does it stop anyone?
Dear Signup Stuff: I agree. Even the recidivists would be riding free during the catch-and-release respite like rats returning to the scene many times before the trial dates not sniffed.
Worked several construction sites for the MTA and the amount of wasted money is unbelievable. And they don't care because it's not their money. Think about it if somebody just kept giving you money everyday would you care about conserving any of it? Mismanagement across the board.
That’s what the fare evaders keep saying but that has nothing to do with the million$ upon million$ lost from fare evasion!… These thieves also commit other crimes once they jump the turnstiles!… They must be stopped!
That'd be silly. The MTA is the largest transit agency in the United States and it is important for them to experiment with new technologies before they deploy them system-wide. If the data shows that these new fare gates increase the amount of paying customers (contrary to the tone of this report), then they may pay for themselves and help the system recover.
Chief accessibility officer saying "we're learning. . ." ,is the most damning statement of incompetence you can hear from someone who is probably making a high six figure salary, if not more. You don't spend $750 million dollars for a frickin learning experience. These gates should never had passed the eye test, common sense tells you that they're ineffective at preventing fare evasion. The MTA is more concerned about how other countries are doing it instead of them using logic for what works best here. Correction, the gates cost roughly $700, 000 installed at the Suptin Blvd station.
And they aren't some new design but just one that is used elsewhere, except that since the subway doesn't have zones they have to be reversible for exit unlike for example in London where there are separate banks of in and out gates.
The MTA doesn't care. It's not their money, and they just figure they'll charge the public to make up the difference for their bloated pensions through raising taxes or congestion pricing.
They do have ticket gate doors, it's just that the gate defaults to being open. The gate will close if you try to pass without a ticket. If you're in Japan or have plans to go there just try it. The gate will quickly close and an alarm is sounded.
I watched people push and force the similar new ones in DC open to avoid paying. The buzzer option won’t matter; I hear it literally back to back in DC, and there’s little enforcement. It appears from my limited use of the DC system that far more people fare evade than actually pay.
@@sjgrall They are far slower than various turnstile/gate systems and take up more room too, so there would have to be five times more room to put them than the current gates. They are also very poor at turning around for exiting, and would also require multiple exit gates for emergencies.
@@sjgrall I would be greatly surprised if these literally have no effect on fare evasion. Before, you could just jump the gate. Now you have to wait for someone to pay. Therefore it must reduce it to some degree.
I knew this was gonna be a problem and not work. In Boston, they have very similar fare control gates and fare evasion for the MBTA has also been a BIG problem lately. This is exactly what happens there. So what if more people with luggage are paying? Their goal originally was to eliminate it and clearly that’s not happening. What a waste of money.
@@yaush_ but there are still a ton of people who are still able to evade the fare. Plus a buzzer isn’t gonna do shit if you ask me bc they’ll just ignore it. They’ll be like “yeah, whatever.”
I mean, this is more than just the MTA's issue, it's about a culture and society issue. There's this pervasive idea that as long as people don't get caught, they can do whatever they want and exploit everything and others to maximize their own gain. It's a lack of moral foundation that gives them pause when considering whether they should be doing something or not. The MTA system, and how they're handling upgrading everything, may be lacking, but so are the people who evade paying their fare just because they believe they can.
Agreed.. its a lack in morality. You're an adult.. you know u shouldn't do that but do it anyway so i feel like what's gonna stop this, heavy penslty the extreme jail time and the amt of time u spen in jail increases by 24hrs each time u get caught doing it
So true, I would feel ashamed to be seen doing that. Few weeks ago, I experienced in my country a similar type of gate staying open for a good few more seconds than it should after the previous customer. I could have just crossed but I preferred to pay. This money is used to pay salaries and improve the travel quality for everyone.
The best I've seen were those metal gated revolving doors that would prevent this kind of piggy backing though it would be difficult for people with strollers and baggages. I don't think there is a solution to please everyone.
Those are death traps though. If they aren’t greased properly they’ll stop turning and it’s easy for a robber to hold one end of the revolving gate and mug someone stuck inside.
They should do like in Europe - you have to scan going in and out. And if a transit cop checks your ticket on the train and finds out you haven't scanned in, you're escorted off the train at the next stop and to the nearest gate. They can also adjust the timing on the gates to close more quickly. I'd also be petty and go through slowly to stymie anyone behind me.
They have that in DC and they use it to charge you more based on length of trip and people still jump the turnstile. I'd prefer to keep our "nickel fare"
Dear Elandraqueller: 5731, Your method would work more efficiently in Europe. In the United States, law enforcement is playing merry-go-round with the catch-and-release judicial system. The trivial frottage (sexy rub up) -- and violent foot-in-mouth fury by the perps plotting to pound peaceful people.
why is this needed? They don’t pay for travel, only those people who have little money, why make life difficult for the poor? we are Americans, we respect everyone.
You'll end up spending just as much as fare evasion having to maintain double the gates throughout the entire city, plus the congestion would get so much worse
They need to implement the airport passport system into subways. The system opens one gate, provides access and opens the next one in front. It probably delays the passenger by 10-20s longer but it works.
NYC school kids aren’t paying regardless, they are given free student Metrocards. A lot of them don’t even bother swiping them and just jump to save time, especially when school gets out.
That's why the gates should open TOWARDS you and not AWAY from you. And they should close more quickly. And if people think there's a safety issue, then the Supervisor in charge of that platform should be able to press the PANIC button to allow passengers to escape in case of emergency.
As someone who comes from a place where this style of gate is the norm, trying to solve fare evasion with gates is futile. You can't realistically have gates that open long enough for a person to get through, but that doesn't allow people to sneak behind them. The solution to fare dodging is definitely not in the ticket gates
When theivery becomes part of a society, no subway gate will stop such practice. The MTA is suffering from fare beaters the same as retailers are losing money to shop lifters.
In London you have to tap to exit. If you didn’t tap on the way in it charges you a higher fare... the risk of this might stop people tailgating, especially if they realise that at their exit station there might be officers who are watching them, and they’ll either have to tap and pay a higher charge or tailgate and risk a fine. They can also make it so the gates won’t allow people to leave at all and require people to have their fare inspected if they aren’t let out. This would also stop people like the lady with the cardboard box. I’ve never been to the US but here in the UK there are signs everywhere on public transport warning you of high fines (£40-100) if you don’t pay, and criminal prosecution if it’s a planned scheme to evade fares.
@@wintersun398fines for not having a ticket doesn’t really exist in the us. On 99% of trains (that aren’t Amtrak) if you don’t have a ticket the conductor will just charge you the same price as a ticket. It’s just like a regular fare if you get caught. This is at least in the northeast.
and that's another thing, in europe this is a criminal offence, meaning police can and will arrest you, and you could get a criminal record, while in america it's only a misdemeanor and not a criminal act. that needs to change as well. and that's up to the politcians.
Dear Tobey Transport 2802: Ex-pat here: UK-to-US. Learning the positives of the United States, visiting sights, scenery and seeing situations and specific targets with your support system is fine -- But reside and work deep down in the grass roots with dubious Americans (and *half-arsed U.S. influenced* foreign people) in certain cities, you'd wish to be a temporary tourist -- soon to return. The State's sapiens are different: The psychology and system is weird.
The old non innovative way worked and we need to go back to it. Floor to ceiling single person revolving doors in and out. If you have a stroller or big luggage (a small part of the ridership) you have the gate person open and close it for you after you pay.this had always been worked before all these so called new cool looking fair evasion garbage gates. People you just watched 7 people go behind one paying customer😡😡and the MTA innovation groups says…”yeah this is what we want”🙄🙄🙄
The problem is that they're trying to use contemporary tech to solve a cultural issue. This doesn't happen as frequently in places like China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Germany, Singapore, etc because there's a nationwide emphasis placed on discipline, respect for authority, and ethics.
Wrong. In all those countries fare evasion is way more likely to lead to jail time, so it's the draconian laws not "the culture." In Japan you can't even leave the system without putting in a ticket because the fare is distance-based, so it's impossible to evade. Tired of you racist clowns putting asians on a pedestal.
@@omariorou1339 I respectfully disagree. Some cities in Germany don't even use fare gates at all, like Berlin. You just validate the ticket in a machine.
In the UK, which I am not from but visited often, they have non-law enforcement fare inspectors watching the cameras and on the other side of the fare gates with radios. In busy stations, they will have 20 to 30 of them. They are waiting to stop you and ask for ID and give you a ticket. If you run, the police are close by and give chase and the person gets caught and receives a royal beat down because the British Police don't play. I'd love to know how anyone is getting through these fare gates without paying in NYC and allowed to go on their merry way.
@@mjb48219 Why would we arm them? They arw not police or security guards. Is the parking authority armex? No and they write tickets and tow cars all day, right in front of angry people.
They'd save so much in operating costs maintaining their fare system if they made it free. However, it would mean taxpayers would be subsidizing non-taxpayers like tourists... But then again does that matter when 98%+ of riders are taxpayers? Probably not. Someone should do a study...
Then have Rockland, Orange, Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester, and Putnam counties leave the MTA tax zone then. I dont need to pay for your subway fare and get nothing back in return.
The gate design is stupid and changing these out is just another mta grift. Wonder whose buddy got the contract for these. They will soon say they have no money and raise fares again.
@@stevemuzak8526 when I see people everyday who dont pay- and they rush and take all the seats on the bus, why should I pay? Its really turning into that kind of situation now.
The design of the gates can be modified with bigger panels, but whoever installed these needs to adjust the door censor to close faster as seen on other gates of similar design. The MTA has to stop going for the low ball offer at this point.
@@ShinycelebiWith civilized riders, passengers all pay. However, some clown might rush the gate and claim injury. Plenty of lawyers salivating for a nice payout.
What are the police going to do force people to pay? Write them tickets they won't pay? Arrest them? Why would police risk their jobs over fare evasion the second someone resists 50 phones come out to record everything I don't blame the police it's the scumbags up top who don't back the police...
In Porto, Portugal, attendants regularly come through the Metro cars to tap everyone’s cards to see if they were validated when entering the stations. If you don’t have a valid tap, you’re issued a fine of €95. Why couldn’t this be done in NYC, or DC (having problems with fare evasion there too).
Porto is so cheap like Lisbon, it’s literally 40 euros a calendar month for the whole metropolitan area, I don’t understand why anyone would not get that since it’s very affordable.
Dear Kevins 6114: Dig and dredge up dastardly deeds done in NYC on TH-cam or social media. You'll find the judicial system is playing catch-and-release with even violent offenders. The badge of law enforcement is often disrespected by the public who are saved by the police, procure hassles of a thankless job -- let alone attendants "authority" scoffed and mocked, having any impact.
This is always going to happen. I am in London as we speak and some kid piggybacked off me on gates that are pretty much the same as those. It's not just the U.S.
It's all come down to people's back ground and education. If your parents don't teach you what's right thing, what's wrong thing to do. Then the law have to step in . Put them away to jail for day or two. See how much things will turn around. Law and order for sure.
The police don’t care I hopped in front of the police yesterday. In a lot of New Yorkers mind the mta is free it’s been that way for years they just gotta accept that
I don't think so, my country doesn't really have a good reputation with education, yet people pay for public transportation here. The key, at least here where I live, is either security guard or transit employee guarding each entry point.
It’s impossible to please all customers while stopping fare evasion. The only thing that stopped fare evasion in the past was the sentiment around it and the fact that cops used to issue fines. The fare evasion really ramped up once cops stopped issuing tickets and also the price of fares went up. So it was the perfect storm for people who were fed up paying high transit fares and the fact that the trains at certain stations are late and done come very often. Along with that fact that you can’t avoid the homeless and mentally ill people on the subway. No one wants to continue to pay more and more money for that.
"It’s impossible to please all customers while stopping fare evasion." Agree. This should help a lot, though. " Along with that fact that you can’t avoid the homeless and mentally ill people on the subway." And reducing fare evasion helps with this also
They should police everyshift watching those gates. 24 hrs a day non stop with the cameras recording their face their movements. Any multiple attempt will be arrested .
Well nothing is technically free. Maintenance has to be done, the employees have to get paid, etc.... If by "free" you mean raise taxes to avoid having to purchase rides, then sure if you don't mind it coming out of your paycheck.
@@zerodepth$3 for 1 ride $6 for two, $12 for 4, $30 for 10 and it keeps on adding up. If you’re ok with getting taxed and/or pay for fare that’s fine. Not everyone is settling for this shit if nothing gets done in our country. They waste money on guns, “upgrade MTA”, invade other countries, give us shitty foods and force us to get vaccinated. You’re crazy if you accept all this from our government.
It's very telling that the official didn't foresee this. After all, piggybacking is not an uncommon method of gaining illicit access. Also, the gate with a buzzer won't do any good if no police are around to apprehend the evaders. The constant buzzing will just be another annoyance. Instead, they should randomly check passengers for proof of payment and issue large fines for evaders.
Trains we won't see till like 2046? and only for homeless to call those home too oh goodie! and still no safety measures on stations also? why can all else outside the US do it easily but America seems to can't or "it's too expensive" or as usual take their sweet ass time with it!
The real problem is that many people in NYC feel that it is fheir right to evade fares and if they have to pay for the subway that somehow makes them less "street smart". I personally seen people make fun of a person who would rather go through the turstile and pay rather then use the exit door which was held by someone as 20 or so people walked in.
You're talking about kids or the pre-frontal lobe development crowd. Others are just poor and can't justify the expense when they have gas and electricity to worry about.
@@leonelfernandez9487 Live in Brooklyn, work in Manhattan, been taking the subway every day for 30 years. Funny thing, once in a Midtown bar I found a wallet on the floor under my barstool and handed it to the bartender who later gave it to the guy who lost it, and when the bartender told him to thank me, since I was the one who found it, I heard the same comment from others at the bar: "you're not form New York, are you?" I still am perplexed by it whenever I hear it.
Good for them, let the mta open their books so we can see what they’re doing with their money always raising the fares but not raising folks pay…hop the turnstiles yall
Chief accessibility officer still has a job? Isn’t this common sense to check someone could piggyback on an already opened gate with this design before spending $$$$ and now again requires police to monitor this? Unbelievable
The mta is poorly managed. They keep raising the price due to fare evasion shortfall which just lead to more fare evasion. I pay $ 132 for unlimted monthly card. Thats ridiculously expensive for a system that has millions of riders daily. The sheer volume of people going through the system daily should have been enough if the fare was reasonably price. But the cost keep going up and up. They are subsidize and yet the fair keeps climbing so of course people are going to evade the fares. 132 per month, couple that with what you have to pay for rent and other bills. Then we have idiot mayor talking about getting people back in the office when having a remote job save you on transportation. Hell if I find a remote job that saves $132 per month. I woild jump at it. These people live in their ivory tower. They have no clue the struggles that ordinary folks go through to make ends meet. They were suppose to make some of the buses free. Have they done that? Hell no!. All they do is come up with these grand costly schemes to save a buck without giving straphangers anything but higher cost. Heres an idea how about they make the subways free on Sundays or after 10 pm. See if that works to recuperate some of that money. Hell how about half price on weekends. They dont want to fix this. They just want to justify raising the price to combat their poor mismanagement
If you know you’ve lost $630 million, then you can approximate how much needs to be spent on officers at stations to enforce paying a fare. For instance, if $1 million is lost at station y, then you start by spending $100k on part time officers to patrol during the busiest hours. In other words, the more that is spent on officers, the less that is lost. And you continue to spend on officers until you start to see a flat lining of riders paying fares.
These gates are not unique. There are variations of this in train stations all over the world. It's about educating people and enforcing rules. People should be held responsible for breaking rules.
Of course, these gates have been used in London since at least the mid 90s. There is no fare evasion issue there at all but Europeans are a lot higher class of people than New Yorkers & Americans, they wouldn’t even think to evade the fare.
@@WillLMC96 London' gates only go in one direction with separate gates for exiting because of fare zones. They do move really fast, making a fwap sound each time.
Got threatened with a 100 dollar fine as i wasn't the other using the exit door NYPD love to "help" or see if you fit the description lmao i do but was off to work mf said "you coming from school" nah mf long done with that covered in anime apparel and just want out of NYC so damn bad omg! I barely pay and cute their cleaning some stations only to soon stop for months but little clean 1 day is literally nothing as the WHOLE SYSTEM is filthy as shit! i just want to feel what Asia has mostly the peace and quite ffs! and hey it being spotless & clean would be actual perks to no homeless hogging seats maybe in 2055 i guess!
As someone from NYC, they don't truly care to solve fair evasion. It's a pervasive issue both on the trains and the buses. The only true solution at this point is to tax NYC residents and make it free.
That’s The dumbest gate I ever seen I worked on the railroad for 35 years retired now what were they thinking, MTA President Robert Kylie would have never had that gate
The original system of turnstiles and ticket collectors was impenetrable. Then the MTA took over, the industrial revolution came and automation ruined the whole thing. Now, the public infrastructure has no money, bad ideas and a user base that doesn't appreciate or respect it
The industrial revolution came wayyyy before the MTA my guy. And the MTA not having money or people who appreciate it is because of decades of underfunding and budget cuts for public transportation and infrastructure.
@@cliffpadilla5871 You could practically walk under the flat wooden ones. There's one at the Transit Museum. The spinning angled bars on turnstiles after that were obviously to fix that problem.
“MAKE THE SUBWAY BETTER” “We need more money” “NOOOOOO THE TAXES ARE ALREADY TO HIGH” “Okay we’ll crack down on fare evaders” “NOOOOO ITS A SAFETY HAZARD” - state of discourse about NY subway 2023-2024
This is why they've implemented congestive pricing so that people will not have to pay their fair share to ride the MTA but charge people to drive in New York City and additionally people will have to pay higher prices for all goods and services in the city to subsidize Fair Invaders
Shame on a defunct subway fare invasion system that would never work. "The best way for the MTA to combat and win fare invasions is to implement cameras on all of the turn stiles that can take pictures of people who do not pay their fare. Then the MTA police officers should display their pictures while searching for the fare beaters, arrested them and made them pay a fine of $150 for the first time. Second times a fine of $450. And a third times a fine of $650. Believe me, that will reduce fare invasions by 90 percents on the first year of this program. The buses as well should have cameras that take pictures of fare beaters from the front of the entrance of the bus and back exits/entrance of the buses. Also, inside the buses and the subway platforms and inside the train the MTA should display pictures of people that are fare beaters. Again that will reduce fare invasions on both aspects to 95 percents. The MTA can track those fare beaters down arrested them and made them pay a stif fine. Those on welfares could have their cash assistance reduced and the amount go straight to the MTA collection system. "This anecdote if from a self-educated critical thinker in world's affair." " Overall, the MTA should implemented a Zero Tolerance Policy to Reduce Billions of Dollars of Fare Invasions."
a 2 gate system may solve this problem but slows down clearing crowds. Basically the first gate opens automatically when you approach then closes behind you, then you scan your card so that the 2nd gate opens.
That buzzer gate is not going to do shit
You're damn right. People even smile in front of cameras doing it..
Only good gate is the vertical old iron ones on some subway stations. The rest of these designs are made by morons.
it'll make the company who supplies them some money, the guy who works for the state prob gets some kickback money.
Nope
The only thing it'll do is make it more annoying to be around when the buzzer is going off all the time. You already see that on the Metro in DC.
It's already obvious that the new fare gates DO NOT curb fare evasion. If they did, why do there need to be 3 uniformed police officers standing around watching the gates? Officers should be patrolling the platforms and train carts for the people openly smoking, assaulting/pushing people, etc.
Lol democrat s hole
Also, NYC spent $150 million on police to catch fare evaders that added up to $104,000 in fares. Ridiculous. Make it free for everybody and tax the rich occupying those insane skyscrapers on billionaires row.
The Police have been handcuffed and made out to be public enemy number one ☝️ by the politicians that the voters of NYC continue to elect into office.
It’s a test. It’s not a final thing yet
These new gates probably didn't increase the fare evasion at all. The width has NOTHING to do with why people are able to get through them. If it did, people would be going in side to side... just think about it.
It's even easier for multiple people to go through than the old ones.
A poor design, high school kids can still jump over it. Gates allow multiple entries, as shown here. Sliding bars or high impact resistant glass panels could be used. A smaller version of the rotating door as used in hospitals might work but would probably restrict capacity in rush hour. Add an additional split upper bar to the existing turnstiles to stop jumpers, that might be a lower cost solution.
@@bernieschiff5919classic American free rider problem 😂
Terrible design. Who approved of this ? SMH
black individuals@@NycBeauty
Evry nite in my dreams, I see you.....I FEEL YOU
It is difficult for me not to believe this is deliberate mismanagement at this point.
To Hull Gullys: I agree. Certain corruption is camouflaged, covering confused and consternated citizens' eyes with wool.
its a pilot program, and mta says they see it being reduced by 20% right now. Stop hating
Indeed
There's politics involved , of course is deliberate
Bingo. They want more fare evasion not less.
The MTA will do everything but improve the subway system itself… 😂
You do know MTA is 24hr system. Passenger's would go mad bonkers if it stop running a certain time like DC,Georgia, and countless other states😮
They only now started to clean again aw cute until they stop again and eric adams ain't getting them homeless something and they nutty people checked and clean so us tax payers can suffer and tourist get hassled by bums day in day out!
And then if they come at us side ways we "can't give them hands mainly cause most them dirty but some legal bs or whatever cause eric adams don't care about us nor does our employer i'm sick and tired sure we all are!
@@whatsittoyou5801 It stopped running 24h during the pandemic and no one went bonkers.
Wth does that have to do with NY never knew GA had a subway system 😭
@@duckmercy11It ran continuously...
These type of gates are very common in European undergrounds and they don't seem to have this problem. The issue is really the dishonesty of the riders.
diversity of the african persuasion
@@TrickyPastaThe one they showed of people rushing through clearly had 3 white people.
@toddspangler6669 bruh you don't wanna get into NYC crime statistics by race, you'll soon find whites are not the problem.
Saw good amount of white people running through the gate . keep you hate to yourself !
@@TrickyPasta
I saw it happening in Milan and Paris when I visited in December
MTA isnt too bright if they thought this was stoppin fare evading
you arent too bright if you think this is the end all product. its a test, they are testing.
@@lojosol It’s almost like not enforcing the law emboldens people to break those laws.... how much money did they spend on this? where you dropped on your head?
@@lojosolThe MTA isn't that bright with this new system if people are able to scurry through without paying
It's as if these were designed to make fare evasion a lot easier.
All this is already paid for before the blue print
This looks similar to wmata new gates in dc
The pushing is a safety issue. It gives room for people especially elderly, injured, and disabled to fall or twist their ankle. It also gives room for pickpocketing
Dear Amd 270: Yes: You'll see the strategy of this light-hearted situational skit taught by the *innocent upstanding* -- played out in full by today's *hard-core* generation players.
You're absolutely right!!
They should probably stay home in the first place.
@@JacobTheThinker There are vans to pick them up, they just need to call.
@@Nuttyirishman85: ... And negate their earnings -- the purpose of their outside venture in the first place.
So a green light and a buzzer sound is gonna make people not go through?
Yeah make it make sense
This isn’t about evasion at all. It’s about a contractor buddy charging hundreds of millions to install these things. This is how they make money. The fare evasion is just a front /facade
Interesting 🤔
I've been saying for years even before these new shits were announced
These machines have lobbies who love paying off the mta types worldwide. Like it's cheap to pull out and install these new gates, all paid for by out tax money while mta execs get "donations" from the manufacturers of these gates
It’s not a facade. Look at what they are doing in Manhattan with the congestion pricing. They most certainly are connected to fare evasion.
Bingo
@@redsox1935don’t be foolish. We all know there’s bigger things at play, except for you
In other countries like Japan and Taiwan, you have to swipe to get into the gate and swipe to get out of the gate. If you did not swipe in, you would not be able to swipe out and the alarm goes off. The ticketing agents are watching all gates. That's how they catch you for fare evasion.
In other countries the barriers don't go to the ceiling, it's like 4 feet tall and the bars run horizontal. Most people don't climb over them. The citizens just don't do that. If they do the barriers that shirt here we will be doomed.
Countries like Japan and Taiwan don’t have the societal problems that America has. They do have some of our problems, but not to the degree that America has. What is the demographic make up of Taiwan? Predominantly or all Chinese. What is the demographic makeup of Japan? 98% Japanese. The Japanese are very protective of their homeland. America is NOT. The Japanese are taught from a young age, you must do what is right for Japan. They are not taught to be individual thinkers. The nail that sticks out gets hammered! If a Japanese person sticks out they get isolated from the rest of society. I have visited Japan 5 times. My best friend is Japanese. Fare evasion and shoplifting are just unheard of. Even if a person who is born outside Japan to Japanese parents, that person isn’t really considered Japanese if they were not born in Japan. And if that someone is half Japanese and half another race, even if born in Japan, they are not considered Japanese. It’s impossible to compare a country Japan to the United States, because our cultures and our behavior patterns are completely opposite, like night and day.
They don't have a high percentage of petty criminals in those countries
Is the alarm goes off nobody is gonna care
@@BrooklynMusicForum The gate does not open when the alarm goes off and you cannot jump over the gate because it is too tall. Otherwise, you can choose not to exit the subway station if you don't wanna pay.
A buzzer for piggy backing is useless unless there's someone there to enforce. It's like the gates we have now. There's a buzzer that goes off. Does it stop anyone?
Dear Signup Stuff: I agree. Even the recidivists would be riding free during the catch-and-release respite like rats returning to the scene many times before the trial dates not sniffed.
Yes but create a job for a security guard? Are you insane? Its all about removing jobs and automation of shit.
Worked several construction sites for the MTA and the amount of wasted money is unbelievable. And they don't care because it's not their money. Think about it if somebody just kept giving you money everyday would you care about conserving any of it? Mismanagement across the board.
You worked a construction site for the MTA doing what? As a contractor?
@@istaycatchingfish2552 You Know that MTA is also a real estate agency, so they have contractors 😊.
Prevailing wage and union jobs, the best jobs and biggest waste of tax payers money
That’s what the fare evaders keep saying but that has nothing to do with the million$ upon million$ lost from fare evasion!… These thieves also commit other crimes once they jump the turnstiles!… They must be stopped!
The old ones worked better
This senior advisor needs to be fired immediately
Hahaha I just said this!
That'd be silly. The MTA is the largest transit agency in the United States and it is important for them to experiment with new technologies before they deploy them system-wide. If the data shows that these new fare gates increase the amount of paying customers (contrary to the tone of this report), then they may pay for themselves and help the system recover.
Simpsons: “You’re fired.” “And for good cause!”
Nyc is not NYC no more
@@cooloosernameyou’re the only sane person here. The video and comments totally ignored that their data shows this increased payments.
Chief accessibility officer saying "we're learning. . ." ,is the most damning statement of incompetence you can hear from someone who is probably making a high six figure salary, if not more. You don't spend $750 million dollars for a frickin learning experience. These gates should never had passed the eye test, common sense tells you that they're ineffective at preventing fare evasion. The MTA is more concerned about how other countries are doing it instead of them using logic for what works best here.
Correction, the gates cost roughly $700, 000 installed at the Suptin Blvd station.
$700,000.
They're more concerned with money than lives
And they aren't some new design but just one that is used elsewhere, except that since the subway doesn't have zones they have to be reversible for exit unlike for example in London where there are separate banks of in and out gates.
translation: chief stupidity officer
Absolutely right 👍
The MTA doesn't care. It's not their money, and they just figure they'll charge the public to make up the difference for their bloated pensions through raising taxes or congestion pricing.
Raise fare.
MTA = Money Thrown Away or More Trouble Ahead.
@@dapperdonny4051 somebody is making good $ at MTA. Tax payers just pay.
@@livingtale5314 Nothing you or I can do about it.
@@dapperdonny4051 : ... And if we try -- we fart!
Meanwhile in Japan they don’t even have doors at ticket gates and ppl still pay the fare 😂
Because honor matters to the Japanese. It's cultural, and parents teach it to their children. Crime is a great source of shame for a Japanese person.
They do have ticket gate doors, it's just that the gate defaults to being open. The gate will close if you try to pass without a ticket. If you're in Japan or have plans to go there just try it. The gate will quickly close and an alarm is sounded.
@@bltzcstrnx haha public shame at its best in Japan 😂 I think I’m good
@@blueraptor9497if you don’t break the law or act like an animal, then you have nothing to worry about.
A sound plays if you go through without paying, and they actually have someone on duty to stop you
I thought it was just the kids not paying. There were a whole lotta grown folks fare evading in this video.
NYC is a ghetto city- and then add the 5 million illegals in the city… it’s a third world trash dump
try being poor
im good@@ThePoliticalBulldog
@ThePoliticalBulldog your funny, it's not only the poor it's EVERYONE
Theyre kids in grown bodies.
At least they’re making fare evasion accessible to everyone 😂
I watched people push and force the similar new ones in DC open to avoid paying. The buzzer option won’t matter; I hear it literally back to back in DC, and there’s little enforcement. It appears from my limited use of the DC system that far more people fare evade than actually pay.
@Mr.DeStylez I think only those giant jail-like turnstiles will ultimately stop fare evaders.
@@sjgrall They are far slower than various turnstile/gate systems and take up more room too, so there would have to be five times more room to put them than the current gates. They are also very poor at turning around for exiting, and would also require multiple exit gates for emergencies.
@@emjayay Indeed, and therein lies the challenge. A "pick your poison" moment.
@@emjayay Also, their accessibility is a nightmare, so you have to have one of the wheelchair gate doors, which are very easy to leave open.
@@sjgrall I would be greatly surprised if these literally have no effect on fare evasion. Before, you could just jump the gate. Now you have to wait for someone to pay. Therefore it must reduce it to some degree.
I knew this was gonna be a problem and not work. In Boston, they have very similar fare control gates and fare evasion for the MBTA has also been a BIG problem lately. This is exactly what happens there. So what if more people with luggage are paying? Their goal originally was to eliminate it and clearly that’s not happening. What a waste of money.
T gates are better though because they slide open and there’s a buzzer if multiple go through
Wait, you're supposed to pay to ride the T?
@@FirstnameLastname-xq4rp yes. It’s like any other Public transit system lol!
@@yaush_ but there are still a ton of people who are still able to evade the fare. Plus a buzzer isn’t gonna do shit if you ask me bc they’ll just ignore it. They’ll be like “yeah, whatever.”
Isn't this what everyone was always doing with old gates? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Yes 🤣🤣🤣
No, they can't only one per turnstile not>5.
I live across from the supthin the monitors they have take a while to close so yea very easy for ppl to go through with one person paying
You clearly not live in nyc
Well at least ppl won't get struck fighting with the turnstile 😂 sorry not gonna work
I mean, this is more than just the MTA's issue, it's about a culture and society issue. There's this pervasive idea that as long as people don't get caught, they can do whatever they want and exploit everything and others to maximize their own gain. It's a lack of moral foundation that gives them pause when considering whether they should be doing something or not.
The MTA system, and how they're handling upgrading everything, may be lacking, but so are the people who evade paying their fare just because they believe they can.
Even if they get caught, what's the consequence?
Agreed.. its a lack in morality. You're an adult.. you know u shouldn't do that but do it anyway so i feel like what's gonna stop this, heavy penslty the extreme jail time and the amt of time u spen in jail increases by 24hrs each time u get caught doing it
I say first offense $200 fine. After that jail. @@elandraqueller5731
i think if people could see their money at work they would gladly pay.
So true, I would feel ashamed to be seen doing that. Few weeks ago, I experienced in my country a similar type of gate staying open for a good few more seconds than it should after the previous customer. I could have just crossed but I preferred to pay. This money is used to pay salaries and improve the travel quality for everyone.
The best I've seen were those metal gated revolving doors that would prevent this kind of piggy backing though it would be difficult for people with strollers and baggages. I don't think there is a solution to please everyone.
Those are death traps though. If they aren’t greased properly they’ll stop turning and it’s easy for a robber to hold one end of the revolving gate and mug someone stuck inside.
@@dr.woozie7500 that's a good point. Oh well, then there's no solution at all.
I've seen taller versions of this gate in London subways that might prevent that
I don’t use the new turnstiles nor exit through the emergency exit to exit. I don’t people piggy backing or getting too close to me.
good idea...@@dr.woozie7500
They should do like in Europe - you have to scan going in and out. And if a transit cop checks your ticket on the train and finds out you haven't scanned in, you're escorted off the train at the next stop and to the nearest gate. They can also adjust the timing on the gates to close more quickly. I'd also be petty and go through slowly to stymie anyone behind me.
yes scanning in and out should be mandatory
They have that in DC and they use it to charge you more based on length of trip and people still jump the turnstile. I'd prefer to keep our "nickel fare"
Dear Elandraqueller: 5731, Your method would work more efficiently in Europe. In the United States, law enforcement is playing merry-go-round with the catch-and-release judicial system.
The trivial frottage (sexy rub up) -- and violent foot-in-mouth fury by the perps plotting to pound peaceful people.
why is this needed? They don’t pay for travel, only those people who have little money, why make life difficult for the poor? we are Americans, we respect everyone.
@@Финскийза6месяцев Honestly, mass transit should just be free.
they need double gates, only one person can get through before the next gate opens
You'll end up spending just as much as fare evasion having to maintain double the gates throughout the entire city, plus the congestion would get so much worse
That’s actually a pretty smart idea. One to let you in then closes, then the second to open to let you out, but you forget one thing , fat people.
That's time consuming.
@@CAIN_STAR yes, but money saving
They need Rudy back.
remember the Guiliani years where fare evasion meant an overnight or ovee weekend at central bookings? pepperidge farm remembers.
They need to implement the airport passport system into subways. The system opens one gate, provides access and opens the next one in front. It probably delays the passenger by 10-20s longer but it works.
Could never handle the throughput requirements of a public metro system (I work in the field).
The doors should be taller and a second set should be installed so that minimizes piggybacking
MTA sighing right now knowing their plan didn't work against fare evasion
they really think a buzzer is going to stop ppl from jumping lmaoo
same thing in dc lol
This is the kind of incompetence that congestion pricing is paying for.
deliberate
It's a money pit. "They" had already promised contractors millions. They knew in advanced it would fail. Follow The Money!!!!!
If you read the report, they're putting a good amount of blame on the almost 1 million school kids that uses the system that do not pay all the time.
NYC school kids aren’t paying regardless, they are given free student Metrocards. A lot of them don’t even bother swiping them and just jump to save time, especially when school gets out.
@@dr.woozie7500jumping to save time is a cool excuse lol 😂
Don’t forget about MTA employees who get free cards.
@@dr.woozie7500 they dont jump to save time, they jump to not use up the limited rides they have.
@@shreddersaurusrex323you expect them to pay?
That's why the gates should open TOWARDS you and not AWAY from you. And they should close more quickly. And if people think there's a safety issue, then the Supervisor in charge of that platform should be able to press the PANIC button to allow passengers to escape in case of emergency.
The gates do open both ways, watch the lady with the box again.
@@joermnyc because there the sensor thinks there is someone exiting from the other side as it'a a disabled access gate from that side.
It’s a safety risk to open towards you and not away from you.
@@joermnycshe thick
Fare evasion will double with these new gates.
Now that you mention it, i’m all for the MTA installing these same gates all across the city.
Double???? You mean Triple! 😅
Triple? From the looks of things I would say Sextouple
As someone who comes from a place where this style of gate is the norm, trying to solve fare evasion with gates is futile. You can't realistically have gates that open long enough for a person to get through, but that doesn't allow people to sneak behind them. The solution to fare dodging is definitely not in the ticket gates
Like with so many issues, attempting to solve it by targeting symptoms never work...
🤔I never really skip paying but this shii is easier 💀✌️ thanks MTA😂
When theivery becomes part of a society, no subway gate will stop such practice. The MTA is suffering from fare beaters the same as retailers are losing money to shop lifters.
In London you have to tap to exit. If you didn’t tap on the way in it charges you a higher fare... the risk of this might stop people tailgating, especially if they realise that at their exit station there might be officers who are watching them, and they’ll either have to tap and pay a higher charge or tailgate and risk a fine. They can also make it so the gates won’t allow people to leave at all and require people to have their fare inspected if they aren’t let out. This would also stop people like the lady with the cardboard box. I’ve never been to the US but here in the UK there are signs everywhere on public transport warning you of high fines (£40-100) if you don’t pay, and criminal prosecution if it’s a planned scheme to evade fares.
absolutely. Don’t they have fines for not having a valid ticket? Just charge $200 for not having a valid ticket and people will learn fast
@@wintersun398fines for not having a ticket doesn’t really exist in the us. On 99% of trains (that aren’t Amtrak) if you don’t have a ticket the conductor will just charge you the same price as a ticket. It’s just like a regular fare if you get caught. This is at least in the northeast.
and that's another thing, in europe this is a criminal offence, meaning police can and will arrest you, and you could get a criminal record, while in america it's only a misdemeanor and not a criminal act. that needs to change as well. and that's up to the politcians.
Dear Tobey Transport 2802: Ex-pat here: UK-to-US. Learning the positives of the United States, visiting sights, scenery and seeing situations and specific targets with your support system is fine -- But reside and work deep down in the grass roots with dubious Americans (and *half-arsed U.S. influenced* foreign people) in certain cities, you'd wish to be a temporary tourist -- soon to return.
The State's sapiens are different: The psychology and system is weird.
The old non innovative way worked and we need to go back to it. Floor to ceiling single person revolving doors in and out. If you have a stroller or big luggage (a small part of the ridership) you have the gate person open and close it for you after you pay.this had always been worked before all these so called new cool looking fair evasion garbage gates. People you just watched 7 people go behind one paying customer😡😡and the MTA innovation groups says…”yeah this is what we want”🙄🙄🙄
The problem is that they're trying to use contemporary tech to solve a cultural issue. This doesn't happen as frequently in places like China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Germany, Singapore, etc because there's a nationwide emphasis placed on discipline, respect for authority, and ethics.
You gotta use technology and enforcement to change behavior and culture
Wrong. In all those countries fare evasion is way more likely to lead to jail time, so it's the draconian laws not "the culture." In Japan you can't even leave the system without putting in a ticket because the fare is distance-based, so it's impossible to evade. Tired of you racist clowns putting asians on a pedestal.
False. They do this in those countries too especially Germany lol in germany it’s cultural!
@@omariorou1339 I respectfully disagree. Some cities in Germany don't even use fare gates at all, like Berlin. You just validate the ticket in a machine.
@@aceboogisback9946 and yet ppl still commit crime there. The gangs kids have exploded in Germany
They paid $700,000 to loose more than $700,000.
In the UK, which I am not from but visited often, they have non-law enforcement fare inspectors watching the cameras and on the other side of the fare gates with radios. In busy stations, they will have 20 to 30 of them. They are waiting to stop you and ask for ID and give you a ticket. If you run, the police are close by and give chase and the person gets caught and receives a royal beat down because the British Police don't play. I'd love to know how anyone is getting through these fare gates without paying in NYC and allowed to go on their merry way.
NY isn't a police state like the UK...
@@Luckywave268 Holding accountable people who break the law does not make a particular placee a police state.
@@gchsbus UK gotta camera on you when you fart.
Do we really want unarmed attendants confronting people in NYC. Unfortunately that could be very dangerous in the US.
@@mjb48219 Why would we arm them? They arw not police or security guards. Is the parking authority armex? No and they write tickets and tow cars all day, right in front of angry people.
MTA needs to be free period
Well, free for those who pay 💰 taxes…I agree 👍🏼
Right? That’s the only solution
Free for those under 50k yes
They'd save so much in operating costs maintaining their fare system if they made it free. However, it would mean taxpayers would be subsidizing non-taxpayers like tourists... But then again does that matter when 98%+ of riders are taxpayers? Probably not. Someone should do a study...
Then have Rockland, Orange, Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester, and Putnam counties leave the MTA tax zone then. I dont need to pay for your subway fare and get nothing back in return.
LAUGHING JOKE HAHAHAHA the MTA is so disconnected from the system they do not use but are in charge of
Yea they ain't know fair evasion is part of being a new yorker is thee most out of touch thing i heard all year!
100k fare invaders in 2023 150mil in overtime for NYPD to stop fare invaders make that make since 😂
The gate design is stupid and changing these out is just another mta grift. Wonder whose buddy got the contract for these. They will soon say they have no money and raise fares again.
And even more people will stop paying for fare.
@@stevemuzak8526 when I see people everyday who dont pay- and they rush and take all the seats on the bus, why should I pay? Its really turning into that kind of situation now.
The unions who are all about to be out of work because of the crash in commercial real state definitely getting those jobs.
The design of the gates can be modified with bigger panels, but whoever installed these needs to adjust the door censor to close faster as seen on other gates of similar design. The MTA has to stop going for the low ball offer at this point.
You mean dangerously fast? Smells like a lawsuit already 😂
@onetwo-dr8hl I mean we could always do what Japan does and keep our gates open. Anybody who doesn't pay the gates slam closed.
@@ShinycelebiWith civilized riders, passengers all pay. However, some clown might rush the gate and claim injury. Plenty of lawyers salivating for a nice payout.
Jamaica center last stop of E and J trains all most 50 % people don't pay even though cops watching the gate .
Cops don't want to roll the dice and end up in a hospital or the morgue for a measly $2.90 loss to the MTA. Fares make zero sense.
What are the police going to do force people to pay? Write them tickets they won't pay? Arrest them? Why would police risk their jobs over fare evasion the second someone resists 50 phones come out to record everything I don't blame the police it's the scumbags up top who don't back the police...
In Porto, Portugal, attendants regularly come through the Metro cars to tap everyone’s cards to see if they were validated when entering the stations. If you don’t have a valid tap, you’re issued a fine of €95. Why couldn’t this be done in NYC, or DC (having problems with fare evasion there too).
Porto is so cheap like Lisbon, it’s literally 40 euros a calendar month for the whole metropolitan area, I don’t understand why anyone would not get that since it’s very affordable.
Dear Kevins 6114: Dig and dredge up dastardly deeds done in NYC on TH-cam or social media. You'll find the judicial system is playing catch-and-release with even violent offenders.
The badge of law enforcement is often disrespected by the public who are saved by the police, procure hassles of a thankless job -- let alone attendants "authority" scoffed and mocked, having any impact.
Because that is equal creating jobs and that is 100% corporate offensive.
@@drac124: Please retype.
These new gates are great MTA now a whole group of people can ride for free 🤡
😂😂😂😂😂
The new 50 finger discount lol
Public transportation is FOR THE PUBLIC. The publics money paid for it. THERE SHOULD BE NO CHARGE. We created it, we benefit from it.
“We” eh?
u are hereby diagnosed with commie
This is always going to happen. I am in London as we speak and some kid piggybacked off me on gates that are pretty much the same as those. It's not just the U.S.
Paris here, and its the same. The gates close extremely fast, makes no difference, they force the gates, jump, run, its wild.
It's all come down to people's back ground and education. If your parents don't teach you what's right thing, what's wrong thing to do. Then the law have to step in . Put them away to jail for day or two. See how much things will turn around. Law and order for sure.
The police don’t care I hopped in front of the police yesterday. In a lot of New Yorkers mind the mta is free it’s been that way for years they just gotta accept that
Poor folks cheat on subway fare, rich folks cheat on taxes...all "fare"😂
Corrupt leaders.... people just following their example. No one cares anymore because our leaders haven't cared for decades.
I don't think so, my country doesn't really have a good reputation with education, yet people pay for public transportation here. The key, at least here where I live, is either security guard or transit employee guarding each entry point.
It’s impossible to please all customers while stopping fare evasion. The only thing that stopped fare evasion in the past was the sentiment around it and the fact that cops used to issue fines.
The fare evasion really ramped up once cops stopped issuing tickets and also the price of fares went up. So it was the perfect storm for people who were fed up paying high transit fares and the fact that the trains at certain stations are late and done come very often. Along with that fact that you can’t avoid the homeless and mentally ill people on the subway. No one wants to continue to pay more and more money for that.
"It’s impossible to please all customers while stopping fare evasion."
Agree. This should help a lot, though.
" Along with that fact that you can’t avoid the homeless and mentally ill people on the subway."
And reducing fare evasion helps with this also
They should police everyshift watching those gates. 24 hrs a day non stop with the cameras recording their face their movements. Any multiple attempt will be arrested .
he is the adviser. no wonder its a debacle
Parents with strollers: "I love it!"
Fare evaders: "I love it too!!! "♥
I know the MBTA has those gates as well and I’ve seen people run through them before without paying 🤦♂️.
Just make public transportation...FREE
Well nothing is technically free. Maintenance has to be done, the employees have to get paid, etc.... If by "free" you mean raise taxes to avoid having to purchase rides, then sure if you don't mind it coming out of your paycheck.
@@gilw.733this guy can't even afford a $3 fare so I doubt he's getting much of a paycheck
@@zerodepth$3 for 1 ride $6 for two, $12 for 4, $30 for 10 and it keeps on adding up. If you’re ok with getting taxed and/or pay for fare that’s fine. Not everyone is settling for this shit if nothing gets done in our country. They waste money on guns, “upgrade MTA”, invade other countries, give us shitty foods and force us to get vaccinated. You’re crazy if you accept all this from our government.
@@mastahkush2398 tell me you're a brokie with out telling me you're a brokie
@@zerodepth Tell me you’re a sucka without telling me you’re a sucka
It's very telling that the official didn't foresee this. After all, piggybacking is not an uncommon method of gaining illicit access. Also, the gate with a buzzer won't do any good if no police are around to apprehend the evaders. The constant buzzing will just be another annoyance. Instead, they should randomly check passengers for proof of payment and issue large fines for evaders.
The German/Austrian solution, and no fare gates needed anywhere. But those are relatively high compliance societies - people follow the rules.
@@emjayay Just like in Japan
@@emjayaya lot of people in those systems don’t pay for fare. Sometimes they get caught sometimes they don’t.
If you pay with your card, how can they tell that you paid? What would be the proof of payment?
@@sharravee2054 The system in antiquated and hopefully with the OMNY electronic fare card proof of payment would be easier
No one should pay any fee for a unclean condition in a train system like this
Most of the trains I ride on are relatively clean, so I don’t know what you are talking about.
Just arrest the people skipping the fairs. If they have money for Jordan’s they can afford the fare. If you dont punish people will not care.
Maybe it’s not a subway problem, but more of a CITY problem.
Why are we paying into this corrupt system who just spent $2billions on just a few new trains?
Trains we won't see till like 2046? and only for homeless to call those home too oh goodie! and still no safety measures on stations also? why can all else outside the US do it easily but America seems to can't or "it's too expensive" or as usual take their sweet ass time with it!
Delays and unsanitary conditions every day, it’s clear they ain’t doing sh*t with the fare
The real problem is that many people in NYC feel that it is fheir right to evade fares and if they have to pay for the subway that somehow makes them less "street smart". I personally seen people make fun of a person who would rather go through the turstile and pay rather then use the exit door which was held by someone as 20 or so people walked in.
You're talking about kids or the pre-frontal lobe development crowd. Others are just poor and can't justify the expense when they have gas and electricity to worry about.
You're not from NYC are you?
@unabashed How are you worried about gas and paying the fare either drive or don't people pretend the fare is outrageous and it's not 😂
@@leonelfernandez9487 Live in Brooklyn, work in Manhattan, been taking the subway every day for 30 years. Funny thing, once in a Midtown bar I found a wallet on the floor under my barstool and handed it to the bartender who later gave it to the guy who lost it, and when the bartender told him to thank me, since I was the one who found it, I heard the same comment from others at the bar: "you're not form New York, are you?" I still am perplexed by it whenever I hear it.
@karatearmchairhistorian9825 that's cool and all but are you from New York were you born or raised here
The city saved us 600 million. Thank you.
Good for them, let the mta open their books so we can see what they’re doing with their money always raising the fares but not raising folks pay…hop the turnstiles yall
MTA workers just got 10% over the next 3 years 😂 "Not raising pay"...
Been questioning how the MTA is still in business for many years
Chief accessibility officer still has a job? Isn’t this common sense to check someone could piggyback on an already opened gate with this design before spending $$$$ and now again requires police to monitor this? Unbelievable
Only fare gate that works is a double gate. If more than one person gets past the first gate, the second gate stays shut.
The mta is poorly managed. They keep raising the price due to fare evasion shortfall which just lead to more fare evasion. I pay $ 132 for unlimted monthly card. Thats ridiculously expensive for a system that has millions of riders daily. The sheer volume of people going through the system daily should have been enough if the fare was reasonably price. But the cost keep going up and up. They are subsidize and yet the fair keeps climbing so of course people are going to evade the fares. 132 per month, couple that with what you have to pay for rent and other bills. Then we have idiot mayor talking about getting people back in the office when having a remote job save you on transportation. Hell if I find a remote job that saves $132 per month. I woild jump at it. These people live in their ivory tower. They have no clue the struggles that ordinary folks go through to make ends meet. They were suppose to make some of the buses free. Have they done that? Hell no!. All they do is come up with these grand costly schemes to save a buck without giving straphangers anything but higher cost. Heres an idea how about they make the subways free on Sundays or after 10 pm. See if that works to recuperate some of that money. Hell how about half price on weekends. They dont want to fix this. They just want to justify raising the price to combat their poor mismanagement
If you know you’ve lost $630 million, then you can approximate how much needs to be spent on officers at stations to enforce paying a fare. For instance, if $1 million is lost at station y, then you start by spending $100k on part time officers to patrol during the busiest hours. In other words, the more that is spent on officers, the less that is lost. And you continue to spend on officers until you start to see a flat lining of riders paying fares.
Dear MTA… Keep the trains on time! Install police alert buttons. Focus the budget on rider safety and train functionality.
Stop being greedy!
These gates are not unique. There are variations of this in train stations all over the world. It's about educating people and enforcing rules. People should be held responsible for breaking rules.
Of course, these gates have been used in London since at least the mid 90s. There is no fare evasion issue there at all but Europeans are a lot higher class of people than New Yorkers & Americans, they wouldn’t even think to evade the fare.
@@WillLMC96 London' gates only go in one direction with separate gates for exiting because of fare zones. They do move really fast, making a fwap sound each time.
@breadandcircuses8127 Europeans are more civilized, you don't see as many crazies or violent criminals as you do compared to in America.
These new turn styles will not work and the little cute alarm will not stop anyone. No one wants to pay your fair and tolls.
"I wanted to see how I will be fired and lose my job"
Got threatened with a 100 dollar fine as i wasn't the other using the exit door NYPD love to "help" or see if you fit the description lmao i do but was off to work mf said "you coming from school" nah mf long done with that covered in anime apparel and just want out of NYC so damn bad omg!
I barely pay and cute their cleaning some stations only to soon stop for months but little clean 1 day is literally nothing as the WHOLE SYSTEM is filthy as shit! i just want to feel what Asia has mostly the peace and quite ffs! and hey it being spotless & clean would be actual perks to no homeless hogging seats maybe in 2055 i guess!
As someone from NYC, they don't truly care to solve fair evasion. It's a pervasive issue both on the trains and the buses. The only true solution at this point is to tax NYC residents and make it free.
That’s The dumbest gate I ever seen I worked on the railroad for 35 years retired now what were they thinking, MTA President Robert Kylie would have never had that gate
That kind of gate is pretty common for a transit system. I've seen it in several countries.
I believe the next step after this should be a TSA-level security enforcement. Hassle for everyone but at least everyone will pay
No matter what change they make they r gonna find a way
To Letmeknow4167: Certainly: Genius still abounds from the servants on horseback to the princess pounded and purloined.
The machines in Europe are set up to only allow one person - I assume that the software on these MTA machines are setup incorrectly
The original system of turnstiles and ticket collectors was impenetrable. Then the MTA took over, the industrial revolution came and automation ruined the whole thing. Now, the public infrastructure has no money, bad ideas and a user base that doesn't appreciate or respect it
The industrial revolution came wayyyy before the MTA my guy. And the MTA not having money or people who appreciate it is because of decades of underfunding and budget cuts for public transportation and infrastructure.
We used to slide underneath the original turnstiles.
@@cliffpadilla5871 You could practically walk under the flat wooden ones. There's one at the Transit Museum. The spinning angled bars on turnstiles after that were obviously to fix that problem.
“MAKE THE SUBWAY BETTER”
“We need more money”
“NOOOOOO THE TAXES ARE ALREADY TO HIGH”
“Okay we’ll crack down on fare evaders”
“NOOOOO ITS A SAFETY HAZARD”
- state of discourse about NY subway 2023-2024
Arrest these people
This is why they've implemented congestive pricing so that people will not have to pay their fair share to ride the MTA but charge people to drive in New York City and additionally people will have to pay higher prices for all goods and services in the city to subsidize Fair Invaders
We have basically the same (slightly different) fare gates in London and it's impossible to walk in behind someone else. The gate will shut on you.
It’s the software they using. It should be sensor to detect . Passengers behind you and close up
Sensors aren’t set properly. It should also be able to read the difference in people and bags. Definitely should be able to count people😩😂
Shame on a defunct subway fare invasion system that would never work. "The best way for the MTA to combat and win fare invasions is to implement cameras on all of the turn stiles that can take pictures of people who do not pay their fare. Then the MTA police officers should display their pictures while searching for the fare beaters, arrested them and made them pay a fine of $150 for the first time. Second times a fine of $450. And a third times a fine of $650. Believe me, that will reduce fare invasions by 90 percents on the first year of this program. The buses as well should have cameras that take pictures of fare beaters from the front of the entrance of the bus and back exits/entrance of the buses. Also, inside the buses and the subway platforms and inside the train the MTA should display pictures of people that are fare beaters. Again that will reduce fare invasions on both aspects to 95 percents. The MTA can track those fare beaters down arrested them and made them pay a stif fine. Those on welfares could have their cash assistance reduced and the amount go straight to the MTA collection system. "This anecdote if from a self-educated critical thinker in world's affair." " Overall, the MTA should implemented a Zero Tolerance Policy to Reduce Billions of Dollars of Fare Invasions."
Or, hear me out - just pay for the system with taxes and make it free to ride for everyone, like the Staten Island Ferry.
MTA give it up, fare evasion will never go away.
Without enforcement, this is useless.
a 2 gate system may solve this problem but slows down clearing crowds. Basically the first gate opens automatically when you approach then closes behind you, then you scan your card so that the 2nd gate opens.
We should have this for Toronto as well! Fare evasion is really bad on the TTC as well. But New York is definitely a lot worse by what it looks like.
Interesting, 690M losses on evaders but pay a security guard to be there, while creating a job is completely insane and non-sense.
To MTA Mr Aroyo:
If they don't pay---they are NOT customers
First time u get caught, a hefty fine like $300. Every time after that 24hrs in jail and your sentence increases by 24hrs with each repeated offense
There is no way in the world they thought this would work more tax money down the drain
The gate should open the opposite way. That way you get stuck trying to sneak through.
People on buses just walk on ...Old & young ......Most drivers say nothing ....it's so easy.......😊
Exactly. Some drivers would allow people walk on, while ask other people to pay.
Drivers have been instructed to not engage fare evaders after one was killed by someone who refused to pay.