I am a retired STA bus driver who drove many of the models shown here. My favourite is the Leyland Leopard MK2. I laugh when I hear today's drivers complain about the buses they are driving and often wonder how they would cope with the heavy steering buses of yesteryear. No air-conditioning and no low floor buses in those days. This is an excellent video and I thank you for sharing this with us. I also thank you for opening my memory banks and allowing me to relive those days briefly through this video.
Glad you enjoyed it. Yes can you believe they made over 700 of these Leopards! I have good memories too, but as a passenger for many years on the E70 going from Manly to the City and yes in summer, standing in a packed bus (as I got on at one of the last stops before it went Express), without air conditioning it certainly at times got uncomfortable. I remember people having to open the roof vents to keep cool. And then when started raining and they were still open, water pouring in. You got to know the seats that the drips made wet and avoided them.
@BackTracks.Channel The STA roof vents/hatches always leaked even when closed. I remember driving and seeing people with open umbrellas 🌂 in the bus because they ALWAYS sat in their regular seats even when dry seats were available.
I remember you guys driving those. Having to turn what seemed like a 2 metre diameter steering wheel a couple hundred of times in one direction or another.
@Joseph Phillips Yes, and sometimes, when there was a full standing load of passengers, we actually had to stand in order to turn the wheel. When power steering was fitted to the older buses, it was only "power steering assisted" and if the revs got too low there was virtually no steering at all.
Myself and a mate of mine when we were about 13 went and visited the Brookvale depot in early 1987, we were allowed to wander around freely, have a look at all the buses including MK2 Leopards, change the destos etc and hearing them start up and rev up till they were warm was just brilliant.
My father drive buses for 34yrs here in Melbourne, as a young child I was in awe when I used to go with him during his shifts. Being able to snoop in the pits under the buses was great, couldn't do it these days but back in the 70s things were different
In 1968 I used to catch the bus home home to Fairlight. It was the 144 to St Leonards, at the wharf, opposite the old Manly Hotel Next to the hotel was an empty lot where buses waited. I was facinated by the fact that you could see tram lines breaking though the asphalt. I also remember in 1969 in Newtown, tram lines were visible on some of the streets.
50 today late shift driving buses. And I love your resurch you have done. .......... and I appreciate it. Life you never stop learning past and future...... and don't have words the time you have taken to procent this video. I think your not being seen. You should be on discory channel. Or a history channel. I pray you get recognition of your work. .........no words of a young man that cares about the past. Now get back to watching you feed. ) take care my friend. My 50s today night shift. God bless. ) dont stop. And pray you get subconscious and thump up . You tube...................................
Wow, I remember being in the front seat on the upper deck of those Atlanteans when the driver seemed to take those corners on Spit road at high speed. It was like being in a race car and they always felt like they were ready to topple over. I was familiar with the Brookvale bus depot but didn’t realise that Kinsellas was the site of the original depot. Thanks for another excellent video!
I've had a lifelong interest in trains but I started also being interested in trams when I was in year 7 in the 1990s. I've also had a bit of an interest in transport in general. Also in NSW the tramways were for a while a branch of the railways department.
Another excellent video, Marty! The "Green Leopards" (3522 - 3753) were a disaster. They were built without power steering, and had mild steel bodies, so they rusted badly. I remember them in the very early 1980s running Route 468 and (I think) Route 435 from Leichhardt depot. Then came Mk2 or "Blue" Leopards (3754 - 3953, 3954 - 3999, 1500 - 1765 (1765 is the one that would have been on display at Brookvale. I don't know what became of 1763)). I loved these! There were a total of 512 of these, as you sort of point out. The first 200 were built by PMC (Pressed Metal Corporation) from 1969 to about 1972, then the final 312 being built by Smithfield Bus and Coach. These were their first contract. To me, the Smithfield bodied Leopards were better than the PMC bodies. The only real difference was that the PMC bodies had a hand brake, while the Smithfield bodies had a "Maxi brake." There were 224 Atlanteans, but were supposed to be a lot more. 1201 - 1224 were slightly different, with about 1 inch of extra floor height behind the centre doors, and a gearbox setup that shared its oil with the fluid flywheel, instead of each being separate. These, along with the Bendy's, are buses I remember well. I drove Merc Bendy's regularly in private service up to the end of my days working in Sydney, just over 7 years ago.
Thanks Toby for watching and your memories of Sydney buses. I only got to ride on (what I would guess) were there "Blue" leopards towards the end of the life. I remember how hot there were when packed with people in the middle of summer. And at my stop it was standing all the way to the city.
Hi my grand father George Sayce was a Manly bus driver I remember that there was still tram tracks at Manly was I was a kid and the Bus depo at Manly before it closed, my grand farther was a veteran from WW1 he was in the killing fields of France he was wounded and gassed he was lucky to survive and went on to be a Manly bus driver he was a good man
Hi Marty, thanks for another interesting video. Being born in 1952, I was lucky enough to see a lot of the original Sydney tram system, though I did miss seeing trams in Manly, Rockdale and the Concord-Cabarita system. Incidentally, do you remember a bus system in the North Shore that used the old tram destination symbols on their destination boards. We knew those Leyland Royal Tiger single deck buses as "sweatbox buses", as without any air conditioning they were very hot to ride, especially during the summer. I remember the double deck Albion green and Atlantian blue buses quite well. I also remember a red double deck bus system that ran in Bankstown. Incidentally, the red double deck "London" tourist bus that runs in Bendigo was actually built at Pyrmont...whoops!!!. Anyway, wishing you the very best. Rob in Melbourne Australia.
Good memories. one thing that did strike me and my son looking at these buses were how 'small' everything was.. I can imagine a packed bus (as we know 'capacity limits' were not really a thing then) in the middle of summer.. wearing a 'suit, jacket, tie' on the way to work wouldn't have been fun..
Thank you for another great professional and involved video, I'm always impressed at the effort you put in. Thank you to the depot too. I'm sure we still had a few operational LMII and Red Rattlers into the early 90s. Was depressing as they always felt like they belonged in the 60s and out of time with the rest of Sydney's development. The noise of the rev and gear change on the LMII was unique. I'm sure most of the oldies also recall the fear of getting on and worrying the bus will break down.
ha, yes we forget how often we had to change buses if one had broken down. I have a very early memory of (what I know now after making this video) was a Leyland Royal Tiger Worldmaster handed down from the Government to a private school bus company in the Southern Sydney Suburbs. There was one hill on the route that every after noon we all had to get out at the bottom and then walk to the top and meet the bus there as it couldn't make it up the hill with a full load of kids. We didn't think anything of it back then, but can you imagine the headlines in the news is this happened today.. us kids thought it was pretty fun..
God I hope there is at some point an initiative sinilar to Melbourne where we can get an old refurbished Sydney tram, ideally one of the iconic "toastracks", and put it onto a heritage tourist route in the city (Melbourne did this with an old W class running a circle route and restaurant service). Perhaps this could just run back and forth down George St from Circular Quay to Central if we didnt want to build any more expensive tram infrastructure; ideally we really should be rebuilding both the Parramatta Road LR section at least as far as Lewisham or Five Dock, and the the Oxford St LR to Bondi Junction and then it could continue down both of these corridors. I can dream. I asked the guys at Loftus about this a few years ago as the George St LR was still in construction and they were pretty sure the current TfNSW would never be interested but not that it was technically infeasible.
Agree. that City Loop line in Melbourne is very special. Anytime I have time spare there when down there for work I do a loop.. the challenge now is that we don't have that many old trams left (Melbourne were smarter than us in Sydney and kept their trams and enough of the W-Class to run the service). From Town Hall to Circular Quay there is that ground-level power supply system that the tram would have to be fitted with. But that wouldn't be that hard one would think? It's a great idea!
@@backtracks.channel yes me too, I think its a great idea, I loved that one in Melbourne! Im currently living in Dresden in Germany, in Germany most cities with older networks do regular heritage runs every few weeks on a saturday where you can pay a bit extra for unscheduled full runs around interesting parts of the whole network and the money goes to the local tram preservation museum. Loftus have at a minimum 3 or 4 different trams dont they? And then there are a few dotted around the place including one or two in Melbourne arent there? The old toastracks were fairly light, I would have thought perhaps a small battery could get you from Town Hall to Circular Quay and back but youre right maybe not. Perhaps it would have to run only to Town Hall and maybe it could do a weird loop between Moore Park-Central-Town Hall, turn around and run back to china town then do a short run down the L1 maybe? Could probably only run outside peaks, say 10am-3pm. I dunno, however they want to run it and think it would work best! EDIT: just having a look around, according to Wikipedia of the older American-style C-class saloon cars which entered service in 1900 theres 6 still preserved (1 in the Powerhouse Museum, 2 in operating condition at Loftus and another 2 in restoration at Loftus plus another elsewhere) Loftus also has 3 R-classes (corridor trams) in operational condition, but only 4 O-class toastracks with another at the Powerhouse and 5 P-class trams. So maybe you're right maybe we dont have enough toastracks to risk them being crushed in accidents on regular tourist runs and they should only bring them out on special occasions? How problematic is it that the current system is 750V DC and the old was 600V DC? Obviousl theres also the pantograph versus trolleypole issue too whixh Melbourne had to get around.
The best bus is worse than the worst tram, but still the tramways were closed... of course, the ultimate intention was to get people into cars, and look what a disaster that turned out to be.
Ridden on the new custom dennings buses, pretty comfy and have decent stuff like a far less obnoxious bus stop alarm and are smoother then the diesels, however they suck with stopping since they always just turn off and so you get a jolt and a bit, otherwise they're alright.
Thanks for the share. Yes I read that the Mark 11 version air con turns off everytime the door opens.. I have a car that turns off at the lights everytime.. I know I am 'saving petrol' but it is a bit distracting agree.
Some years ago, a Sydney bus was stolen and the authorities eventually found it parked in a street in Newcastle. What gave it away was having "Bondi" on the destination sign. The thief wasn't that smart, as if the destination had been "Special" "Sportsground" or "Depot", they may have never found it. However, having it parked in a residential street, would have created suspicion even without reading the destination.
Great story. Not heard that before... ha, perhaps the thief was smarter than we give him/her credit for.. as if the bus had have had a Newcastle relevant destination they would have been signaled to stop by passengers at every stop along the Pacific Highway.. a very slow 'get away' :)
There was evidence of the trams here until about the mid 1980s. I remember going to some kind of Open Day at the old Manly tram terminus, and seeing the rails still in the roa, partially tarred over. Also there was ex-Manly tram O 1111 - a life-long favourite tram of mine for this reason. I remember that I was a little kid and wanted to ride 1111, but my mother told me there was no tramline to Brookvale. I was quite dissapointed!
Just while I have you... what tram line would you like me to prioritize in upcoming videos? So many to choose from! And if you say 'any line is good' that's great (as I can prioritize the ones I have enough knowledge of / film of). Cheers M PS: that goes for anyone reading these comments.. suggest what's next for BACKTRACKS.
I am a retired STA bus driver who drove many of the models shown here. My favourite is the Leyland Leopard MK2. I laugh when I hear today's drivers complain about the buses they are driving and often wonder how they would cope with the heavy steering buses of yesteryear. No air-conditioning and no low floor buses in those days. This is an excellent video and I thank you for sharing this with us. I also thank you for opening my memory banks and allowing me to relive those days briefly through this video.
Glad you enjoyed it. Yes can you believe they made over 700 of these Leopards! I have good memories too, but as a passenger for many years on the E70 going from Manly to the City and yes in summer, standing in a packed bus (as I got on at one of the last stops before it went Express), without air conditioning it certainly at times got uncomfortable. I remember people having to open the roof vents to keep cool. And then when started raining and they were still open, water pouring in. You got to know the seats that the drips made wet and avoided them.
@BackTracks.Channel The STA roof vents/hatches always leaked even when closed. I remember driving and seeing people with open umbrellas 🌂 in the bus because they ALWAYS sat in their regular seats even when dry seats were available.
I remember you guys driving those. Having to turn what seemed like a 2 metre diameter steering wheel a couple hundred of times in one direction or another.
@Joseph Phillips Yes, and sometimes, when there was a full standing load of passengers, we actually had to stand in order to turn the wheel. When power steering was fitted to the older buses, it was only "power steering assisted" and if the revs got too low there was virtually no steering at all.
Myself and a mate of mine when we were about 13 went and visited the Brookvale depot in early 1987, we were allowed to wander around freely, have a look at all the buses including MK2 Leopards, change the destos etc and hearing them start up and rev up till they were warm was just brilliant.
My father drive buses for 34yrs here in Melbourne, as a young child I was in awe when I used to go with him during his shifts. Being able to snoop in the pits under the buses was great, couldn't do it these days but back in the 70s things were different
In 1968 I used to catch the bus home home to Fairlight. It was the 144 to St Leonards, at the wharf, opposite the old Manly Hotel
Next to the hotel was an empty lot where buses waited.
I was facinated by the fact that you could see tram lines breaking though the asphalt.
I also remember in 1969 in Newtown, tram lines were visible on some of the streets.
50 today late shift driving buses. And I love your resurch you have done. .......... and I appreciate it. Life you never stop learning past and future...... and don't have words the time you have taken to procent this video.
I think your not being seen.
You should be on discory channel. Or a history channel.
I pray you get recognition of your work. .........no words of a young man that cares about the past. Now get back to watching you feed. ) take care my friend. My 50s today night shift. God bless. ) dont stop. And pray you get subconscious and thump up .
You tube...................................
Wow, I remember being in the front seat on the upper deck of those Atlanteans when the driver seemed to take those corners on Spit road at high speed. It was like being in a race car and they always felt like they were ready to topple over. I was familiar with the Brookvale bus depot but didn’t realise that Kinsellas was the site of the original depot. Thanks for another excellent video!
Yes as kids there was always a race to the top to get that front seat..
I've had a lifelong interest in trains but I started also being interested in trams when I was in year 7 in the 1990s. I've also had a bit of an interest in transport in general.
Also in NSW the tramways were for a while a branch of the railways department.
Another excellent video, Marty! The "Green Leopards" (3522 - 3753) were a disaster. They were built without power steering, and had mild steel bodies, so they rusted badly. I remember them in the very early 1980s running Route 468 and (I think) Route 435 from Leichhardt depot. Then came Mk2 or "Blue" Leopards (3754 - 3953, 3954 - 3999, 1500 - 1765 (1765 is the one that would have been on display at Brookvale. I don't know what became of 1763)). I loved these! There were a total of 512 of these, as you sort of point out. The first 200 were built by PMC (Pressed Metal Corporation) from 1969 to about 1972, then the final 312 being built by Smithfield Bus and Coach. These were their first contract. To me, the Smithfield bodied Leopards were better than the PMC bodies. The only real difference was that the PMC bodies had a hand brake, while the Smithfield bodies had a "Maxi brake." There were 224 Atlanteans, but were supposed to be a lot more. 1201 - 1224 were slightly different, with about 1 inch of extra floor height behind the centre doors, and a gearbox setup that shared its oil with the fluid flywheel, instead of each being separate. These, along with the Bendy's, are buses I remember well. I drove Merc Bendy's regularly in private service up to the end of my days working in Sydney, just over 7 years ago.
Thanks Toby for watching and your memories of Sydney buses. I only got to ride on (what I would guess) were there "Blue" leopards towards the end of the life. I remember how hot there were when packed with people in the middle of summer. And at my stop it was standing all the way to the city.
Hi my grand father George Sayce was a Manly bus driver I remember that there was still tram tracks at Manly was I was a kid and the Bus depo at Manly before it closed, my grand farther was a veteran from WW1 he was in the killing fields of France he was wounded and gassed he was lucky to survive and went on to be a Manly bus driver he was a good man
Thanks for the great memories. Appreciate the share.
Hi Marty, thanks for another interesting video. Being born in 1952, I was lucky enough to see a lot of the original Sydney tram system, though I did miss seeing trams in Manly, Rockdale and the Concord-Cabarita system. Incidentally, do you remember a bus system in the North Shore that used the old tram destination symbols on their destination boards. We knew those Leyland Royal Tiger single deck buses as "sweatbox buses", as without any air conditioning they were very hot to ride, especially during the summer. I remember the double deck Albion green and Atlantian blue buses quite well. I also remember a red double deck bus system that ran in Bankstown. Incidentally, the red double deck "London" tourist bus that runs in Bendigo was actually built at Pyrmont...whoops!!!. Anyway, wishing you the very best. Rob in Melbourne Australia.
Good memories. one thing that did strike me and my son looking at these buses were how 'small' everything was.. I can imagine a packed bus (as we know 'capacity limits' were not really a thing then) in the middle of summer.. wearing a 'suit, jacket, tie' on the way to work wouldn't have been fun..
And good fun fact about the London Bus.. I am going to look into that!
Great video! Thank you for sharing.
@2:40 I used to work in that Building when it was a Daewoo/Mitsubishi dealership, I had no idea it was an originally part of the Tram system!
Thank you for another great professional and involved video, I'm always impressed at the effort you put in. Thank you to the depot too.
I'm sure we still had a few operational LMII and Red Rattlers into the early 90s. Was depressing as they always felt like they belonged in the 60s and out of time with the rest of Sydney's development. The noise of the rev and gear change on the LMII was unique. I'm sure most of the oldies also recall the fear of getting on and worrying the bus will break down.
ha, yes we forget how often we had to change buses if one had broken down. I have a very early memory of (what I know now after making this video) was a Leyland Royal Tiger Worldmaster handed down from the Government to a private school bus company in the Southern Sydney Suburbs. There was one hill on the route that every after noon we all had to get out at the bottom and then walk to the top and meet the bus there as it couldn't make it up the hill with a full load of kids. We didn't think anything of it back then, but can you imagine the headlines in the news is this happened today.. us kids thought it was pretty fun..
God I hope there is at some point an initiative sinilar to Melbourne where we can get an old refurbished Sydney tram, ideally one of the iconic "toastracks", and put it onto a heritage tourist route in the city (Melbourne did this with an old W class running a circle route and restaurant service).
Perhaps this could just run back and forth down George St from Circular Quay to Central if we didnt want to build any more expensive tram infrastructure; ideally we really should be rebuilding both the Parramatta Road LR section at least as far as Lewisham or Five Dock, and the the Oxford St LR to Bondi Junction and then it could continue down both of these corridors. I can dream. I asked the guys at Loftus about this a few years ago as the George St LR was still in construction and they were pretty sure the current TfNSW would never be interested but not that it was technically infeasible.
Agree. that City Loop line in Melbourne is very special. Anytime I have time spare there when down there for work I do a loop.. the challenge now is that we don't have that many old trams left (Melbourne were smarter than us in Sydney and kept their trams and enough of the W-Class to run the service). From Town Hall to Circular Quay there is that ground-level power supply system that the tram would have to be fitted with. But that wouldn't be that hard one would think? It's a great idea!
@@backtracks.channel yes me too, I think its a great idea, I loved that one in Melbourne! Im currently living in Dresden in Germany, in Germany most cities with older networks do regular heritage runs every few weeks on a saturday where you can pay a bit extra for unscheduled full runs around interesting parts of the whole network and the money goes to the local tram preservation museum.
Loftus have at a minimum 3 or 4 different trams dont they? And then there are a few dotted around the place including one or two in Melbourne arent there? The old toastracks were fairly light, I would have thought perhaps a small battery could get you from Town Hall to Circular Quay and back but youre right maybe not. Perhaps it would have to run only to Town Hall and maybe it could do a weird loop between Moore Park-Central-Town Hall, turn around and run back to china town then do a short run down the L1 maybe? Could probably only run outside peaks, say 10am-3pm. I dunno, however they want to run it and think it would work best!
EDIT: just having a look around, according to Wikipedia of the older American-style C-class saloon cars which entered service in 1900 theres 6 still preserved (1 in the Powerhouse Museum, 2 in operating condition at Loftus and another 2 in restoration at Loftus plus another elsewhere)
Loftus also has 3 R-classes (corridor trams) in operational condition, but only 4 O-class toastracks with another at the Powerhouse and 5 P-class trams. So maybe you're right maybe we dont have enough toastracks to risk them being crushed in accidents on regular tourist runs and they should only bring them out on special occasions? How problematic is it that the current system is 750V DC and the old was 600V DC? Obviousl theres also the pantograph versus trolleypole issue too whixh Melbourne had to get around.
Awesome vid
The best bus is worse than the worst tram, but still the tramways were closed... of course, the ultimate intention was to get people into cars, and look what a disaster that turned out to be.
I loved the B line when it was introduced…but it was so disappointing to see those magnificent vehicles turned into mobile billboards
I really hope you were able to find pictures and good info to make an Ashfield to Mortlake/Cabarita tram video
Thanks. Yes that would be a great video to make. Should put it on my list. Cheers M
Nice … so there's a link between the Northern Beaches and Glasgow!
Hi Marty, do you ever plan on doing a video about the Loftus Tramway Museum?
Good suggestion! I have not been there for many years. I believe it's open Wed and Sun. Should put a date in the diary.
The bus workshop is very similar to Doncaster depot in Melbourne. Interesting.
Thanks. interesting agree... probably quite a number of the same types of bus chassis as well....
Ridden on the new custom dennings buses, pretty comfy and have decent stuff like a far less obnoxious bus stop alarm and are smoother then the diesels, however they suck with stopping since they always just turn off and so you get a jolt and a bit, otherwise they're alright.
Thanks for the share. Yes I read that the Mark 11 version air con turns off everytime the door opens.. I have a car that turns off at the lights everytime.. I know I am 'saving petrol' but it is a bit distracting agree.
I remember them all,
Some years ago, a Sydney bus was stolen and the authorities eventually found it parked in a street in Newcastle. What gave it away was having "Bondi" on the destination sign. The thief wasn't that smart, as if the destination had been "Special" "Sportsground" or "Depot", they may have never found it. However, having it parked in a residential street, would have created suspicion even without reading the destination.
Great story. Not heard that before... ha, perhaps the thief was smarter than we give him/her credit for.. as if the bus had have had a Newcastle relevant destination they would have been signaled to stop by passengers at every stop along the Pacific Highway.. a very slow 'get away' :)
So they managed to privatise the buses. That's annoying.
I like buses because I caught them all the time as we never had a car.
Can you pleases tell me about the tram bus terminal at manly
There was evidence of the trams here until about the mid 1980s. I remember going to some kind of Open Day at the old Manly tram terminus, and seeing the rails still in the roa, partially tarred over. Also there was ex-Manly tram O 1111 - a life-long favourite tram of mine for this reason. I remember that I was a little kid and wanted to ride 1111, but my mother told me there was no tramline to Brookvale. I was quite dissapointed!
It's only right Mercedes should build articulated buses (7:35) because they "benz" in de middle! LOL 😁
Ha so funny.. my family read this comment and they have been re-telling the joke to me over the last few days everytime we see a Bendy Bus..
@@backtracks.channel I've started a trend! LOL 😀
@@neilforbes416 those double deckers when they turn the corner it feels like if its going to tip over due to it leans the most awful feeling
👍👍👍👍👏👏🍺
Thanks Robert as always. Appreciate the support and the feedback.. Cheers Marty
Just while I have you... what tram line would you like me to prioritize in upcoming videos? So many to choose from! And if you say 'any line is good' that's great (as I can prioritize the ones I have enough knowledge of / film of). Cheers M PS: that goes for anyone reading these comments.. suggest what's next for BACKTRACKS.