All I've really ever cared about regarding tail cuts is that they actually impact a fight somehow, whether it's less range with moves that use it or weakening moves that use it
And we have cases of Tail Breaks which achieve this with Rajang. That being said, I see a case for monsters that are uncuttable or unbreakable to a degree from how it balances item drops or interactions.
Generally I like this rule but the only monster it applies to that comes to mind is Rathian, who can still poison anyways in my experience. If part of the tail chips off (ex: Malzeno) I don’t mind unless I can do it for every monster. Then the mechanic isn’t as interesting to me
one thing that really rubbed me the wrong way about the original video was the suggestion that capcom didnt want to put in the effort to design a more beat up monster because they were too proud of their work. that seems so out of left field and just not true, you can still fuck up some monsters
One of the newest monsters, Flaming Espinas, can be absolutely mangled. It’s head, wings, feet, and chest can all be broken and it has a massive tail that can be cut off.
I'll be honest I'm more concerned with them adding more monsters with _meaningful_ part breaks. Things like Barioth getting it's movement completely crippled if you break it's wings or Pukie outright losing it's tail blast once you cut it's tail off or Chamo losing it's invisibility with a horn break. The damage dealt to monster should be more then just visible, it should impact how they fight. The one thing about tail cuts I am completely sick of seeing is "cosmetic" tail cuts, that is ones that just take a chunk off the tail rather then reducing it's actual lethality.
@@niklasmitfussl2639 To be fair rathian loses much of her range with a tail cut. Still shouldn't be able to poison you with a fucking stump but it's better than nothing
this is my main thing. I feel like more and more tail cuts don't actually impact the way the monster fights. People aren't upset because the amount you cut from glavenus' tail is small its upsetting because he doesn't change how he fights it doesn't FEEL like he has less range because most of the time you get hit not with the tip but near the last 35% of his tail, so if 35% of his tail was gone it would feel more impactful. And it'd be cool if he stopped using tail attacks as much and tried to bite more. Same with vel, whats the point in cutting off her tail if she just makes the SAME shape with ice when enranged, atleast have it be impacted a bit. Malzeno can still tail grab and stab just fine. He doesn't slow down his tail attacks at all. More things like barioth loosing balance when his claws/wings are cut should be added
I honestly can't name a single tail cut that's purely cosmetic and doesn't effect the fight. Whether your weapon or playstyle can take advantage of the difference isn't guaranteed, but personally I think that's great game design, making weapons more varied.
@@Nasgatemk2 You're not thinking very hard then. Astalos, Almudron, Magnamalo, Malzeno all have cosmetic cuts. They clip a little slice off the side of the tail that you can carve, but have no effect on the monsters moves or the tails reach. Basarios, Chameleos, Daora, and Teostra also have cosmetic cuts as they're hitbox data remains completely unchanged after the tails cut off. It just _looks_ like it might do something because it removes the very tip of the tail, but it doesn't have any actually effect on their attacks range. Placebo effect essentially. Those are just the ones in Rise/Sunbreak. World had few more.
I will say as a blunt weapon main, I barely noticed the changes (if any) regarding tail cuts over the generations. If anything, we need more fancy carve-able head breaks like Barroth and Ceadeus.
I wonder why you didn't notice how tail cuts have changed if you never cut any. Do agree on adding more scalps though. Getting Shara Tenderplates was a nice challenge early on in IB's life cycle.
Agreed. Barroth being basically the only break that, far as I'm aware, always has required blunt damage to get and cannot be done with severing damage, is a shame.
I know you *could* break it with cutting damage but breaking off Bloodbath's second horn and having it pop down and become a carve in GU was always great too.
At 3:19 I made a mistake. It should say “20 out of 40” This video isn't an attack on Laughing Sofa's video in anyway, but watching his prompted me to want to make a video that covers the history of Tail Cuts in Monster Hunter, because it seems a lot of people are interested in this subject.
this feels more like an actual review on the tail cuts from an objective point of view while sofas vid felt more like it just ignored data from past games
That was definitely my biggest gripe with his vid - it felt like he was just going "uh no those don't count cuz they old and sold poorly you clearly didn't play it cuz I said so"
@@Youtubin20 Yeah, and if he actually didn't consider the portable games at all (which is the much higher selling titles in earlier gens), I'll be very pissed off.
Also, a lot of Data from the original Video was from an untransparent "Judge Panel" Rating Tailcuts... i guess completely Subjectively, how much they liked them?
@@Duraxy Yes, I also think those "judges" thing are completely pointless, because the video didn't give any explanation what's considered a "good tail cut"
Deviljho's tail for me is more like "Oh thank god, I can finally avoid the ridiculous tail spins." than "Wow, that was a big piece of tail, what a spectacle."
The BIGGEST reason for tail cuts I've ever needed is the higher chance for plate/ruby/mantle etc carves. Back in mh1 on ps2, we deliberately went on "tail/plate runs" where a Lancer "headlocked" Los and Ian while other hunters with cutting weapons cut the tail, all for a chance at that sweet sweet plate carve. No plate? Abandon and try again. Plate? Finish quest or cart three times for your loot.
Tobi-Kadachi is based on a flying squirrel, and the tail is the most iconic part of a squirrel. Without the tail, it would just be a lizard with a weird flap of skin between its legs.
Not to mention, just look at Tobi's belly - the tail is the single thickest part of its body! It'd almost be cutting Tobi off the tail, rather than the other way around.
In that case how come we can severe the tail of Akura Vashimu in Frontier? Hes a giant scorpion and us cutting his tail removes that aspect of him and make him just a Black Crab
Aside from the main two points I'd actually say I want tail cuts and partbreaks in general to be more impactful on the moves monsters can perform, including losing moves and gaining new moves
@@julianadams3710 a monster with a fat-storing tail that is so big it prevents it from flying/leaping across the arena sounds like a net design. Maybe it has a mechanic where it drains nutrients from the tail to heal the main body which is strong against non blunt damage untill its broken.
@@julianadams3710 Imagine a large tail with that's sharp, and when you cut it it's more that you break off a casing around it, and it goes from sweeping broadsword type moves to rapier style thrusts and even ripostes
Tail cuts will only nerfs to their tail cut attacks, shame most of them are just reduced range though. That's why Pukei-Pukei's tail cut is one of my favorites, it literally changes from a water jet spray from it's tail into just a pitiful fart
I feel like the way they handled rathian in world, or barioth claws is the way to go. You target a suboptimal hitzone, but if you keep at it, you are rewarded with a substantial gameplay advantage: no more poison from rathian, or barioth now slips while charging at you. Which is what I'd hope would have happened, for example, with mangamalo: you chop of a bit of his tail, and now he can't use it to launch hellfire balls or cannons at you. That would be my hope for mh6. Oh, pukei is also an example: if you chop off his tail you greatly hinder is ability to spew poison from it. It goes from a long range stream to a fart.
Thanks for this video. I saw Sofa’s video and left a comment saying how the video he made and tried to present as “just presenting data” was based almost entirely on rating tailcuts by how much people enjoyed them, which is the furthest thing from an objective measuring stick you can get. I also felt like he just attacked the devs with unwarranted criticisms like “they’re too proud to have their pretty monsters damaged” and stuff that really bugged me
I also like that rewarding feeling, tge change from frustration of "How do I cut this thing STOP MOVING!" into "You made a wrong move, get ready to lose your tail."
Your little addendum about Rise was addressed a bit in anomaly investigations. All part breaks, tail cuts included, give you more investigations upon quest completion.
Funnily, I've been having big problems with some of my part breaks in Investigations. Especially the tail. Even more so with Zinogre which had its hit zone values on the tail sliced going into Rise and Sunbreak. And I blame that fact for my inability to get a Sky Emerald for the longest time.
Personally I think by far this is one of my favorite videos you've made. But I knew it would've been too good to be true for you to make a video without unnecessarily shitting on rise.
Very good video. The original video flabbergasted me with how weird the criticism was. The fact you proved that technically speaking the tail cuts haven’t gotten worse at all (outside of rise objectively changing things like rathain poison negation mechanic) was a lot more formal than the nit picky nature of the original.
@@michaelburleson2687 it was two different dev teams. The world team was much more open to moving the series forward, while team2, the rise devs, wanted to hold on to classic monhun. Rise was supposed to be zoned off until world became capcom’s best selling game of all time and they had to completely redesign the maps from the ground up
I feel like the *gameplay* is moving away from the tail. we're being emphasized to go after the face for everything...despite tails being a fairly good hitzone.
Same with weapon roles. Back in the older games there was no flinch free and each weapon had its own role depending on the party setup. Hammer, HH on the head, DB and SnS for elemental hitzones, LS and maybe Lance for tail, ranged weapons kept their distance, IG mounted and everyone let the GS user to the best hitzones for cut damage. Nowadays everyone will just get angry, then someone will yell SLOT FLINCH FREE and I really can't blame either side because it was the developers that didn't know if they wanted to keep the mechanic or abandon it to let everyone do max DPS.
@@julianadams3710 Depends. Some monsters have very thick and armoured skulls but weak tails. Also the tail is an extension of the spine so it still has nerves and stuff.
I love how in all these clips you carve the tail while still fighting the monster lol. Great video though, I had actually seen the referenced video first and initially I had agreed but I really just hadn't put much thought into any counter arguments like this video and I agree with all the points you made
I was wondering if Nibelsnarf tail were cutable since 3u, I now have an answer, I just though it was almost impossible to cut it due to the tail being 95% under the ground
Yeah, I think my only complaint with tail cuts is how they've lost some of the actual gameplay impact. Back in the day, cutting a tail and getting that extra carve(and usually an extra chance for a rare plate) was a pretty big deal when you were farming parts. Nowadays, with the addition of gathering palicoes and wyvern riding drops in order to feed the melding pot machine, the actual benefits of getting that extra tail carve are relatively slim. It's easy to just forget about it entirely and just focus on hitting for DPS. Plus, the actual tail item isn't really all that important because it's pretty rare to need one for anything other than just cooking them, and you get them fairly easily from quest rewards.
While I sort of agree, the obsession of tail carves were more because of the plate/ruby chance. When people did "Tail Hunts" (where they would cut off the tail, carve it, and if they didn't get their plate, abandon quest) then you know you have a problem. Back in Tri, I captured the Rathalos over 100 times, cutting the tail at least 80% of the time and never got a Rathalos ruby, I am thankful it's not that grueling anymore.
You say this but I started playing hammer after always using bladed weapons and not being able to get tail cuts is a serious nerf when you need 3 diablos tails for the diablos hammer
Man most of the tails introduced in newer games have been more satisfying than others. While the raths were satisfying to lop off (like most flying wyverns tbh), the elders (especially Chamelos) as well as things like the Zingore were frustrating to cut, even if the tails felt substantial. Meanwhile things like the Malzeno and Mangamalo have some nice long tails that are severable, and since they're used as weapons, it's like being presented with a nice weakpoint in the process if you know to dodge the attack. It feels like Sofa's statement is based on the Pukei Pukei and that's it, which bird wyverns rarely can be cut anyway.
Did sofa not like the Pukei tail cut? For me it’s one of the better examples because Pukei and especially Coral Pukei both have a lot of attacked that require a full tail
My main problem with Rise cuts is that only ONE of the brand new monsters has a proper tail cut, that being Gaismagorm. The rest of them only let you cut the SIDE of the tail, not even the tip. Even Narwa only lets you sever one of her tail spikes, changing effectively nothing. World had a lot of really good tailcuts so it was disappointing to see this happen with Rise.
I think the only complaint I have with the "deemphasized tail cuts" is even with the map marker for the tail location, certain environment effects like water and tall grass can hide the tail piece and make it difficult to find. I remember having a rough time in 4U with Shagaru Magala's tail, because sometimes it's hidden in the arena rocks since the gold-white scales are similar to the arena.
One of my favorite tail cuts in the franchise is Zenaserisu's because if you cut his tail and wing tendrils you effectively castrate his moveset, but by the time the tail and tendrils come off he's already near death.
Some of the tail cuts in MHR can feel a bit underwhelming. When I first fought Almudron and I saw him gather a big ball on his tail I went ham to try chop off the big ball hoping it'd fall off and roll around. It just broke and I was sad.
A good response to the original video. Much more objective, and I appreciate bringing in developer commentary and yknow, data, instead of saying "here a few of my friends ranked how cool the chunks of tail coming off looks lol"
Honestly you can still fuck up some monsters in rise and stuff too. It's really weird for me to realize when a horn is missing or the neck frill is fucked up as I wasn't expecting it (I'm new to the game). It's neat to see the changes that happen as you chase and that some get more aggressive as they begin to die. It's honestly so like a real creature sometimes I feel bad about killing another izuchi or lagombi. They limp when they run and even lose energy. They have weight.
The problem I have with smaller tailcuts is that that just don't live up to the subconscious expectation you make when first fighting a monster with a tail that looks cuttable. I experienced this most with Seregios and Malzeno. In my head I could clearly see what portion of the tail I felt should be cuttable and was then greatly disappointed to find that I got much less than what I wanted. I know its a case of creating my own expectations and a game can't possible account of that, but come on, I looked up Seregios' tail cut pre-Sunbreak and they did not have to nerf it by that much.
Yeah we cut throw its spine wich causes Major nerve damage and severe pain. Possibly even paralyzis. Not to mentiom its balance whould be fd up and hed just constantly fall over.
For tobi kadachi, there are several times where it bounce rolls on its tail, and having the tail come off would overly complicate the animation process for these moves. The tail is also where the most fur for static electricity it stored, and destroying it would probably reduce the effectiveness of the weapons we make from it
There's also the problem that half it's body mass and lethality is strongly rooted in it's tail. So, cutting of it's tail would basically be it's death at that point. Deviljho gets it's giant hunk of meat torn off because it's only 1 part of it's terrifying moveset, AND to set up the hilarity(or macabre) of it eating it's own tail.
I remember the first time Bish threw all his fruit. I was like Wow is the monster trying to bait me... or maybe he's trying to distract me to escape. I wanted that fruit but didn't want to fall for what appeared to be a simple mechanic. I'll take that fruit over just another tail cut any day. Even if it doesn't benefit me as much it's just fascinating to think about the reason behind this monster doing this.
How funny would it be if whenever he dropped the fruit, he would immediate run as if changing areas, but he just keeps running and if you let him get through 4 areas without being attacked, he escapes?
On the Tobi Karachi response part of the video "what about monster than you could cut off but can't" well as a player of world as both my first introduction and my only experience about half of the monsters body is it's tail. Tobi is also one of the faster monsters in game too. The tail in the hunter notes are also regarded as the main weak spot. So even if they took of a small part of the tail it would make the hunt harder for your missing more weak spot
@@draw2death421 my reply to that is when should a player be comfortable with difficulty. Tobi in mhw at least is word one level one just about. You can hunt a Tobi once to finish the totoreal. So as one of thoughs there mite have been to lighten the difficulty. they added a few monster to the same area that are harder too. Rathlos in particular by what the dev rate the difficulty.
If I remember properly, the musculature of Lunagaron's tail helps the animal walk/maintain balance in the quadrupedal form. So i guess they though removing it would be too cruel, since that would basically cripple it.
That can be said for pretty much any monster with a tail cut. If you cut a Rathalos' tail, it realistically wouldn't be able to balance itself anymore. The tail is a counterweight to the head, so without the tail the head just falls on the floor. Same goes for something like Deviljho. If you cut its tail, it would tip over to the front.
@@draw2death421 My hunter shouldn't be able to run around with a greatsword on his back at a normal speed either, but sometimes you're allowed small breaks from reality when designing game mechanics.
yeah I just felt like sofa's vid was in the pile of hundreds of other vids that calls back on the way monster hunter used to be but in reality it was never like that and they're just misremembering
I really wasn't sure what to think after the first video, but this really all made alot of sense to me and it was super informative seeing the origins of the series and design philosophy! Great video
You said around 10:55 that tail cuts always affect the fight, with examples like a shorter attack range. In Monster Hunter World, I noticed the opposite. The Diablos tail attack seems to have no different hitbox after the cut. You can see it slam down the tail club... even though the club is not there at all. It doesn't touch the ground with the tail, yet it slammed the ground through sound and particles. Also, while the argument about certain tail cuts being too influential on a fight is sure relevant, it can have the same deal like with Coral Pukei-Pukei. while you can deal sever damage on its tail throughout the entire fight, you can only deal that last hitpoint to cut it when the monster is on like 25 or 20% health, to prevent this tail cut from being a cheese method for the fight.
Thank god there was a response. I watched 10 minutes of the original video and wound up frustrated, because it felt like the data was being misrepresented and pointed towards arguments that really didn't make sense in context. Glad I wasn't the only one. There's genuine gripes to be had with the transition from classic MH to newer entries, and arguments like that end up putting so much smoke in the water that it's hard to have a genuine discussion.
My $0.02: There are 3 things worth discussing here. 1.) ability to get an extra carve with higher chance of tail or gem part, 2.) decreasing combat ability of monster 3.) "satisfying" gameplay feel / visual modeling of breaking parts In world and rise in general it's easier to get the tail parts from captures, quest rewards, and palico plunders, so 1) is less of an issue. For 2) I think this is hit and miss. With glavenus you can barely tell the difference. With Rathian and Rathalos it's becoming harder to in the more recent games. Personally I would prefer if breaking parts / cutting tails would result more often in certain moves not being usable anymore rather than just being less damaging or having a smaller hitbox. For 3) this is a bit more subjective. I think in general the issue isn't so much with the size of the tail that comes off and is carvable but more the monster model after the break. For instance, after Glavenus reheats a broken tail it doesn't even look like he lost anything anymore. And a lot of moves make it look like a tail's regenerated for other monsters as well The bit you take off Kushala in World and Rise is hardly visible as missing on the model. Likewise with Teostra. As far as the gore aspect goes, I agree Capcom has definitely always been aiming at a lighter atmosphere to monster hunter, so it makes sense that you're not seeing a lot of blood or guts in these games. It would be interesting to see more competitor games out there that maybe go further and have a more mature tone (The Surge is a good example)
Idk if they already fixed it but in Rise when you cut off Rathian tail it's still can poison you with non-existing spikes that were there. Also, I miss "more blood" cheat code from psp Monster Hunters
@@WillowStarshower hmm, maybe it was a long time since I played older ones but I think she didn't poison with it in MHFU but can be wrong it was years ago
@@WillowStarshower ok, good to know, but they should make it work correctly like in world anyway, rise is a new game, it should stick to some details like this one, it would be even better if they would add more details like this (a bit realistic)
Yep. In mhgenu and mh4u you cut off the like 30% of the tails tip while in sunbreak you break off just one side of the tail wich in turn makes it so cutting it doesent really do anything
Maybe it's not monsters overall but the endgame content where monsters on average are less likely to have tail cuts? Looking at all monsters out of context isn't fair to player experience.
good video with good counter points but glavenus is the very example of a monsters that had a reduced tailcut. back in gens we could remove the whole blade par of the tail, making it blunt, the tail is still there, just the blade, witch is bellow the tail bone is removed, considereing that glavenus has a diffcult tail cut, it was very rewarding to get a damage reduction and a smaller hitbox, but in iceborne, we just remove the very tip of the tail, which is worse and makes so a diffcult tail cut rewards us with a slightely smaller hitbox but no damage reduction nor is the hitbox as small as it used to be, quite literally nerfing the tail cut despite it not being a bit deal in the previous gen, and its not like it breaks the phylosohphy of tail cuts nor made disabled his moves, it doesnt break the bone part, just flaming metal part and the tail still retains most of its size and doesnt make it impossible for glavenus to use his attacks, the glavenus tail cut in gen 5 is just worse than in gen 4 with no real reason.
I wouldn't say because of no real reason. The reason they down sized the cut was for Acidic Glavenus. He had a much thinner and smaller tail that it had to be translated to regular Glavenus since they share an almost identical model
In MHRise, Rathian does still poison you with her tail and cutting it does nullify her ability to do that. You also have the motley mix at the dango bar to get food tickets and you get more of them from turning in tails as well getting steaks and other goodies, so you may not have realized, but the same importance is on tail cutting as in previous games from what you've shown.
Imagine being able to cut Glavenus's ENTIRE tail off. Imagine how boring his fight would be without a tail that he could sharpen and swing around. At that point the only way he could attack you reasonably is with bites and fireballs; He'd be handicapped to hell and back.
About tobi kadaki, when tobi kadaki glides it flattens and extends it's tail so the tail serves a vital function in tobi kadaki's flying abilities, the tail is it's main weapon too so I supose severing kadaki's tail jeopardizes all it's movement and attacks, is just a combination of bishaten and legiana scenarios, both have tails that you could cut but then the monster becomes unable to perform vital parts of what makes it unique.
2:28 Little note on this, youre absolutely right. However this is a rare instance of where lore classification like flying wyvern, bird wyvern etc. are actually not very descriptive of the monsters technical makeup. This is because Yian Garuga and Pukei-pukei actually have the same rig (basically an animation skeleton used in computer graphics) as most flying wyverns. You can see it when they are idle and havent spotted the hunter. Their pose and animations for walking and looking around are identical to those of prominent flying wyverns like the raths etc. It explains on a technical level why these "bird wyverns" have cutable tails, whereas the other bird wyverns (or Raptors as I tend to refer to them) dont.
Thank you so much!!! I honestly getting tired of this nitpicking if monster hunter has lost its charm....like so much. I honestly don't care how big the tail is either I'm just enjoying the series and the monsters.
This video isn’t a defense on the charm argument tho. And in fact in another of his videos he actually specifies that he *agrees* that the series has lost a bit of its charm
most tail cuts i've got no issues with, but seregios in particular's tail when cut off did get nerfed in rise. GenU had the big meaty chunk on the end get lobbed off whereas sunbreak's steve's tail only has a singular spike from the tail get cut off which is a lot smaller and harder to see
I think I was in the camp that didnt quite agree with the other video, though there were some good points. On the issue of ickyness, I do think at this point there's enough of a tradition for them to at least consider ways to change it up for freshness. In particular, the tails feel like they've long since stopped being icky, but alluring instead. The cross sections have enough detail to invoke appetite at times, and we know they're edible because it's an option when ordering food in sunbreak. I know I would like to cut a gyrados tail specifically for that reason. That said, I imagine they would have to redesign a whole of behavior and AI for just this, so it might just not be worth working on over other more pressing mechanics.
my main gripe is how they practically doubled tigrex's tail break threshold from MHworld to MHrise. it use to be one of the better parts to target as it would help mitigate the large spin attack, but now it has gone from one of the easiest parts to the absolute hardest to cut and it's messed with the dynamic of the fight
This is my issue. Seems like, between increased break thresholds and the general increase in movement speed, tails are just a PITA to cut in Rise. Add in the fact that they don't really offer anything that you can't get from the end screen or shinies and the whole mechanic just feels vestigial.
People like complain about the cut tails becoming tinier but damn they are becoming cooler, I remember ther first time I severed the tail of a glavenus in Gen, how the tip of the blade broke of and fell skewered on the ground and you could see the steam coming off the tail as it cooled off, man that was peak soul, the tail can even hurt you if it falls over your head.
btw, in I think a lot of the lizards that can throw their tails off, they have segmented tails. That means that their tails have segments and weak points that can easily be broken off
The most fascinating part of this video to me is going over Capcom's reasoning for what they did. For a while I've been wondering why they didn't do more elaborate damage models, like cutting off wings, limbs, ect. and why it was just limited to tails. It does make more sense now knowing that they just didn't want to squick too many people. I'm like you in that I don't really care too much about it. I just like it when breaking parts or severing tails has a gameplay implication to it. Weakening attacks, disabling effects, lowering resistance, or even getting extra/special parts.
This is a great point that honestly I'd never considered before. The game is called Monster Hunter, but really you're not hunting in the way humans in the real world do. You're fighting a monster, one that always poses an active threat. I think one of the reasons that certain subsets of monsters don't have tail cuts is that they look too much like real animals. Yian Garuga is a dragon and Zinogre is massive, but Yian Kut-Ku is an oversized chicken and Tobi Kadachi is basically just a mammal with scales. Cutting the tail off of those monsters would feel like cutting the tail off a real animal, rather than disabling a dangerous fantastical creature.
My biggest problem with tail cuts since gen 4/5 is that its really not necesary at all. You can get 2 3 tails as rewards for no reason at all. That is stupid imo.
Bad opinion it’s an absurd amount of tails for the soulseer merchandise. If I had to cut a tail each time to get 70% chance of gettting a soulseer tail I would instantly die
Play 4u again. They are doing this intentionally. Back in the day ypu couldn't get parts lie tails, however rns claws aso without breaking the parts and breaking the parts was also not a guarantee you would get it. Additionally, most of these items would then onoy drop 1 while ypu needed 4 of them for 1 weapon. This made the game way more grindy for no reason. In the newer games they changed it so you can get most items just by hunting the monster. Hunting monsters for specific parts and then not getting them because the rng or just simply unluck on the quest in breaking said part is frustrating so in the newer games capcom reserved this for gems aso.
not just gen 4-5 they have been doing that mechanic for a long time. im playing unite right now on my emulator and i got a rathalos/rathian tails from the capturing rewards but never cut their tails off, im using a bow.
Personally I’m fine with whatever they do with the tail cuts as far as size is concerned I just wish they affected the fights a little more drastically in ice born if you cut off coral Pookie‘s tail it took away a larger amount of its move set unfortunately it is not that way in rise I understand not every monster has a bunch of tail based moves but certain monsters it would be more logical to take away a few weapons from its arsenal if the tail was chopped off
you want something really fun and interactive with the rathian tail cut? make it remove her ability to poison you, but then make a completely new variant, and have her throw poison everywhere from her stump once her tail is cut. one of the attacks making pools of poison on the ground, some attacks spreading it in the air and poisoning you without knocking you back, and so on. i think it could add an incredible layer of depth to the details of monsters if they made a few where cutting/breaking a part is not an absolute advantage and might even make the fight harder in a specific way.
"We here at Capcom don't want players to feel too bad or icky about hurting the monsters." _Meanwhile behind the scenes_ "Heheh how about when you break magnamalo's horn that condemns it to a life of solitude, never able to get a mate and dies alone."
This is going to be a long comment, so tl;dr: I'd like more part breaks that have a (larger) impact on the fight, and I don't think this would be too out-of-line with the current design philosophy. First up, on tail cuts, I strongly agree with what you've said about them feeling less incentivised in Rise, and the example of Rathian still being able to poison is a good one. I don't have anything to add to this, other than maybe that when a monster has a really big tail it feels much less satisfying to cut off just a small bit. But that's a trade-off, you still want the tail attacks to be somewhat threatening, and can't just give every monster a huge tail. I'd still like the cut on, say, Anjanath to be a little higher up, but it's not a big thing. As far as Capcom's design philosophy, you said yourself that the fight should feel throughout like you're fighting a monster at the top of its game, and it's a threat all the way through. I feel like the exhaustion effect flies in the face of this, though. At times during the fight, a monster will just stand still, panting, while the hunters just beat it up. And unlike with a knockdown or sleep where the monster gets straight back in the fight afterwards, an exhausted monster will use one or two attacks, usually weaker and slower than usual, then stand there panting again while the hunters smash it up even more. Rise's anomaly hunts make 1-2 exhausts a central element to the fight, and it's hard not to feel bad for the monster as it stands there catching its breath after each attack. So even if the monster starts the fight at full strength, by the time you're halfway through that's just not true any more. I'm not saying whether exhaustion is a good or bad gameplay element, just that it's a counterexample to the monsters always being at their strongest. Onto the main point about part breaks affecting fights more - first of all, notice I didn't say tail cuts. The elder dragon trio's horns are another example of part breaks that change the combat gameplay, with a key element of each fight being made less dangerous as a result. Barrioth's claws too, where it falls over after some attacks when they're broken. I feel like this could be more widespread. Maybe flying wyverns not staying in the air for as long if their wings are broken, and Rathian needs to stabilise itself a little before doing a flip, or Bazelgeuse does one fewer swoop before diving. Maybe Bishaten could be tripped more easily when its tail is broken because it's not as stable to stand on. Breaking Somnacanth's head could make its sleep effects move more slowly, or Diablos's horns could make it dig into and out of the ground more slowly, giving a bigger opening or smaller jump. Lastly, an idea I've had for a while - what if certain part breaks or tail cuts actually made the monster *more* dangerous? Incentivise attacking the part with a rare part reward and high hitzone, make it slightly easier to break, then make a couple of moves slower but stronger once it breaks. Take Astalos, for example - one of the spikes breaks of its tail. What if those are used to focus the tail laser? So once one breaks off, the attack comes out as a cone instead, hitting a wider area. Or any monster could have a tail cut where the lighter tail now whips round slightly faster but does less damage. There are plenty of monsters that spit fireballs, what about reducing the number but making them bigger or having them explode after the head is broken? These are all random concepts that will never get implemented, but the point is that a broken part can change a fight without necessarily making it easier, and still feel reasonable.
And there are cases where the tail cut does nothing to nerf the range of tail attacks at all, prime examples from 4th and 5th gen primarily, major examples being bloodbath diablos, astalos, magnamalo etc etc, that being said i hate tails which you have to break first before you can sever, such as narga before rise. Also some tails have super bloated hp pools which means you have to focus it down in order to get the cut before the monster runs out of hp
I don't feel too strongly about this topic, but I do think this is a much better reasoned and researched video than Laughing Sofa's and I appreciate that
I think the only tail cut I actually have a problem with is Magnamalo, its hitbox is tiny and usually frustratingly out of reach plus it only drops a single spike rather than the whole tail. Again that's probably a gameplay-first design choice but man
Tobi's tail can't be cut off because it would make the fight harder. It's got the softest hitzone for blademasters, and making it smaller would make it harder to hit.
If the devs said you can't cut tobi kadachis tail because it would affect the fight too much it's because it would take away or weaken too many of his attacks. It would nerf the fight too much. It sounds like they don't want tail cuts to change the fight much at all except for maybe 1 or 2 attacks not a monsters whole kit. Edit: you say this eventually
Just the slightest nitpick (Doesn't change the point of the video at at all, I just gotta scratch the mental itch XD) Pretty sure you can still cook tails in motley mix
1:58 Duramoboros is not a tail cut by your definition. It's a 2 stage part break in which first the shell crackss an second the outer layer breaks off, but the bulb still remains intact. Furthermore can the second stage only be accomplished by blunt weapons, which directly contradicts the idea of a "cut" by default.
"When a section of the tail on the monster model is severed from the main model and falls to the ground as a carveable entity" - The shell is a section of the tail. check - The shell is part of the monster's model. check - The shell is severed from the main model. check - The shell falls to the ground and can be carved. check It literally meets every single element of the definition in the video. It objectively does. How did you come to the conclusion that it doesn't? "It's a 2 stage part break". So what? Nargacuga is also a two-stage break. That's completely irrelevant. "the second stage only be accomplished by blunt weapons". That is just flat out wrong. Duramboros' tail can be severed with ANY weapon type. Even bombs can sever it. Blunt weapons in MH have a sharpness value anyway, so your semantic argument is moot regardless. Literally every single word you typed is wrong. How the hell did this get 14 upvotes? Oh, and just in case. Sever: to break or separate, especially by cutting. Meaning that cutting is not a hard requirement for something to count as being severed.
My only nitpick with tail cuts is that Rathian can still cause poison after a tail cut sometimes in gen 5 games and that Velkana can refreeze the spike onto her tail, negating the bonus of cutting it.
Honestly, I 100% agree with this video, BUT... The think what I and many others take issue with is the relationship between tail cuts being impactful, and newer tail cuts being small. This is where it comes in as feeling like we're getting japed on the newer monsters. You used Velkanna as an example: it has a thin rapier-tail, and you can cut it. But after you cut it... the fight is not affected. She grows an ice tail of the same size on the stub to stab you for all of her usual tail attacks, and most of us never noticed a difference. Similarly for Magnamalo: you chip off one of the wings of his "spear" tail. As far as can be observed, this does not affect his attacks in any way. In both cases an probably others I'm missing, there is no change to the fight, and only a minor material reward. On the other hand, cutting off something like Glavinus' tail _does_ affect the fight, that chunk of it's tail _does_ matter: I have absolutely watched an Acidic Glavinus hit my friend with a Marth tipper that he would have survived without the extra reach. I change my spacing against many monster pre- and post-cut. I like that only certain tails can be cut, especially now after your video and the realization that they are generally consistent in what can be cut and why. But I want to see an immediate, battle-affecting change to reward me for doing the cut. Me and my squad cheered the first time we cut Velkanna's tail... only to groan when it stabbed us just the same with an icicle where the spike was. I would have LOVED it if it's tail-cut flinch had a bit where it grows a stubby, sharp icy cap over the stump, but now has like a meter less reach. Or was forced to do a longer spike-growing tell before using tail attacks. Same for Magnamalo: either taking off a more noticeable chunk, or maybe being able to break his tail multiple times... and that being impactful. Something like his flicks shoot out less fireballs, the Wizard Spin being way shorter or needing more spins to wind up, or the stabs doing noticeably less damage, or causing him to flinch when the tail-tip is parried or power-guarded. I get not being able to cut every tail, and the reasons why. But there would have been no fight difference if hitting Magnamalo's tails just dropped a shiny. As time has gone on, the cuts seem less impactful on fights, even returning ones (I was _peeved_ when Rise Rathian poisoned me with by slapping me with her stump). When I do get to do something, I want it to matter. Hell, I'd even be ok with some making the fight _harder_ a-la Kulve Taroth's mantle break, like if Apex Rathian went from "dangerously poisonous tail spikes" to "oh god the severed stump has bad reach but is now leaking pools of toxin on the ground after EVERY attack!" that's still an _impact._ Make Apex Toxin Tail a material, only drops from tail sever rewards and carves, and now you have to manage and plan around it. I'm not in the camp of "uug Monster Hunter baaaad now," I've replayed the old games recently. Monster Hunter is the best it's ever been. But it can be better and I _will_ complain about it, because I love it.
All I've really ever cared about regarding tail cuts is that they actually impact a fight somehow, whether it's less range with moves that use it or weakening moves that use it
And we have cases of Tail Breaks which achieve this with Rajang.
That being said, I see a case for monsters that are uncuttable or unbreakable to a degree from how it balances item drops or interactions.
Rathian just trolls. Long time player here and im still confused as to why her severed tail can poison
@@Happygg6 poisoned blood maybe?
Generally I like this rule but the only monster it applies to that comes to mind is Rathian, who can still poison anyways in my experience. If part of the tail chips off (ex: Malzeno) I don’t mind unless I can do it for every monster. Then the mechanic isn’t as interesting to me
@@Happygg6 Rathian did that untill Cross and Cross is NOT an old game
one thing that really rubbed me the wrong way about the original video was the suggestion that capcom didnt want to put in the effort to design a more beat up monster because they were too proud of their work. that seems so out of left field and just not true, you can still fuck up some monsters
One of the newest monsters, Flaming Espinas, can be absolutely mangled. It’s head, wings, feet, and chest can all be broken and it has a massive tail that can be cut off.
Barroth's broken scalp being so red is imo one of the most brutal part breaks it looks just so raw and painful
just look at all the broken parts in world thats just not true LUL howd he come to that conclusion?
@@julianadams3710 flaming espinas is not new it’s the espinas subspecies from MH Frontier
@@lightbrand_ New to the main series games.
I'll be honest I'm more concerned with them adding more monsters with _meaningful_ part breaks. Things like Barioth getting it's movement completely crippled if you break it's wings or Pukie outright losing it's tail blast once you cut it's tail off or Chamo losing it's invisibility with a horn break. The damage dealt to monster should be more then just visible, it should impact how they fight.
The one thing about tail cuts I am completely sick of seeing is "cosmetic" tail cuts, that is ones that just take a chunk off the tail rather then reducing it's actual lethality.
looking at you rathian, poisoning/not poisoning every 2nd game after her tail is cut
@@niklasmitfussl2639 To be fair rathian loses much of her range with a tail cut. Still shouldn't be able to poison you with a fucking stump but it's better than nothing
this is my main thing. I feel like more and more tail cuts don't actually impact the way the monster fights. People aren't upset because the amount you cut from glavenus' tail is small its upsetting because he doesn't change how he fights it doesn't FEEL like he has less range because most of the time you get hit not with the tip but near the last 35% of his tail, so if 35% of his tail was gone it would feel more impactful. And it'd be cool if he stopped using tail attacks as much and tried to bite more. Same with vel, whats the point in cutting off her tail if she just makes the SAME shape with ice when enranged, atleast have it be impacted a bit. Malzeno can still tail grab and stab just fine. He doesn't slow down his tail attacks at all. More things like barioth loosing balance when his claws/wings are cut should be added
I honestly can't name a single tail cut that's purely cosmetic and doesn't effect the fight. Whether your weapon or playstyle can take advantage of the difference isn't guaranteed, but personally I think that's great game design, making weapons more varied.
@@Nasgatemk2 You're not thinking very hard then.
Astalos, Almudron, Magnamalo, Malzeno all have cosmetic cuts. They clip a little slice off the side of the tail that you can carve, but have no effect on the monsters moves or the tails reach.
Basarios, Chameleos, Daora, and Teostra also have cosmetic cuts as they're hitbox data remains completely unchanged after the tails cut off. It just _looks_ like it might do something because it removes the very tip of the tail, but it doesn't have any actually effect on their attacks range. Placebo effect essentially.
Those are just the ones in Rise/Sunbreak. World had few more.
I will say as a blunt weapon main, I barely noticed the changes (if any) regarding tail cuts over the generations. If anything, we need more fancy carve-able head breaks like Barroth and Ceadeus.
I wonder why you didn't notice how tail cuts have changed if you never cut any. Do agree on adding more scalps though. Getting Shara Tenderplates was a nice challenge early on in IB's life cycle.
@@eser8167 oh I've cut tails before, had to resort to boomerangs in some of the older titles with more limited multi-player opportunities.
@@camil3545 Oh no. My condolences.
Agreed. Barroth being basically the only break that, far as I'm aware, always has required blunt damage to get and cannot be done with severing damage, is a shame.
I know you *could* break it with cutting damage but breaking off Bloodbath's second horn and having it pop down and become a carve in GU was always great too.
At 3:19 I made a mistake. It should say “20 out of 40”
This video isn't an attack on Laughing Sofa's video in anyway, but watching his prompted me to want to make a video that covers the history of Tail Cuts in Monster Hunter, because it seems a lot of people are interested in this subject.
this feels more like an actual review on the tail cuts from an objective point of view while sofas vid felt more like it just ignored data from past games
That was definitely my biggest gripe with his vid - it felt like he was just going "uh no those don't count cuz they old and sold poorly you clearly didn't play it cuz I said so"
@@Youtubin20 Yeah, and if he actually didn't consider the portable games at all (which is the much higher selling titles in earlier gens), I'll be very pissed off.
Also, a lot of Data from the original Video was from an untransparent "Judge Panel" Rating Tailcuts... i guess completely Subjectively, how much they liked them?
@@Duraxy Yes, I also think those "judges" thing are completely pointless, because the video didn't give any explanation what's considered a "good tail cut"
it's not like the video was supposed to be objective
Deviljho's tail for me is more like "Oh thank god, I can finally avoid the ridiculous tail spins." than "Wow, that was a big piece of tail, what a spectacle."
The BIGGEST reason for tail cuts I've ever needed is the higher chance for plate/ruby/mantle etc carves. Back in mh1 on ps2, we deliberately went on "tail/plate runs" where a Lancer "headlocked" Los and Ian while other hunters with cutting weapons cut the tail, all for a chance at that sweet sweet plate carve. No plate? Abandon and try again. Plate? Finish quest or cart three times for your loot.
Pause. Tail cuts were back in psp days too?
@@shadow12k yes
I still do that in Sunbreak lol. I never stopped 😂
Smash head ,break back plate, cut tail then dip
@@shadow12k Grinding Rathian plate in MHFU solo say... yes. And my god, fuck that shite. It taught me how to use longsword correctly.
Tobi-Kadachi is based on a flying squirrel, and the tail is the most iconic part of a squirrel. Without the tail, it would just be a lizard with a weird flap of skin between its legs.
Same with glavenus yet you can cut his tail
@@pepper1boy35 technicaly you don't "cut" the glavenus tail but rather you break it hard so that a huge piece of it fall
@@pepper1boy35 you break a shard of the tail off to be carved, you can't sever the tail because without it Glavenus can't use 85% of it's attacks
Not to mention, just look at Tobi's belly - the tail is the single thickest part of its body! It'd almost be cutting Tobi off the tail, rather than the other way around.
In that case how come we can severe the tail of Akura Vashimu in Frontier? Hes a giant scorpion and us cutting his tail removes that aspect of him and make him just a Black Crab
Aside from the main two points I'd actually say I want tail cuts and partbreaks in general to be more impactful on the moves monsters can perform, including losing moves and gaining new moves
A monster gaining a move from losing it’s tail makes no sense whatsoever unless the monster purposefully does it on its own.
The rathian poison nerf is a good example, now that I finished the video, lol
@@julianadams3710 a monster with a fat-storing tail that is so big it prevents it from flying/leaping across the arena sounds like a net design. Maybe it has a mechanic where it drains nutrients from the tail to heal the main body which is strong against non blunt damage untill its broken.
@@julianadams3710 Imagine a large tail with that's sharp, and when you cut it it's more that you break off a casing around it, and it goes from sweeping broadsword type moves to rapier style thrusts and even ripostes
Tail cuts will only nerfs to their tail cut attacks, shame most of them are just reduced range though.
That's why Pukei-Pukei's tail cut is one of my favorites, it literally changes from a water jet spray from it's tail into just a pitiful fart
That 'grilling featur' for Tails are present in Rise's Motley Mix too. And it grands you Welldone Steak, Ration, Immunizor and Dash Juice. :o
I feel like the way they handled rathian in world, or barioth claws is the way to go.
You target a suboptimal hitzone, but if you keep at it, you are rewarded with a substantial gameplay advantage: no more poison from rathian, or barioth now slips while charging at you.
Which is what I'd hope would have happened, for example, with mangamalo: you chop of a bit of his tail, and now he can't use it to launch hellfire balls or cannons at you. That would be my hope for mh6.
Oh, pukei is also an example: if you chop off his tail you greatly hinder is ability to spew poison from it. It goes from a long range stream to a fart.
Thanks for this video. I saw Sofa’s video and left a comment saying how the video he made and tried to present as “just presenting data” was based almost entirely on rating tailcuts by how much people enjoyed them, which is the furthest thing from an objective measuring stick you can get. I also felt like he just attacked the devs with unwarranted criticisms like “they’re too proud to have their pretty monsters damaged” and stuff that really bugged me
I also like that rewarding feeling, tge change from frustration of "How do I cut this thing STOP MOVING!" into "You made a wrong move, get ready to lose your tail."
Your little addendum about Rise was addressed a bit in anomaly investigations. All part breaks, tail cuts included, give you more investigations upon quest completion.
Come on, he's just a little guy, it's his birthday.
Let him say bad things about MHR/SB at least once.
Funnily, I've been having big problems with some of my part breaks in Investigations. Especially the tail. Even more so with Zinogre which had its hit zone values on the tail sliced going into Rise and Sunbreak. And I blame that fact for my inability to get a Sky Emerald for the longest time.
@@nestrior7733 i run part breaker pretty often. It's a good use of a 4 slot if you like breaking all the parts which I do
@@TheDreadlagg Spreading misinformation is not good criticism.
also you can cook tails but it's a completely useless mechanic
Personally I think by far this is one of my favorite videos you've made. But I knew it would've been too good to be true for you to make a video without unnecessarily shitting on rise.
Very good video. The original video flabbergasted me with how weird the criticism was. The fact you proved that technically speaking the tail cuts haven’t gotten worse at all (outside of rise objectively changing things like rathain poison negation mechanic) was a lot more formal than the nit picky nature of the original.
Rathian has never lost poison after getting a tail cut. At least not since 3U. It’s always been that way
@@Faint366 She only loses the poison in World, still weird to walk that back though after introducing it in the same generation
@@michaelburleson2687 it was two different dev teams. The world team was much more open to moving the series forward, while team2, the rise devs, wanted to hold on to classic monhun. Rise was supposed to be zoned off until world became capcom’s best selling game of all time and they had to completely redesign the maps from the ground up
@@Faint366 That makes sense I guess, hopefully the poison removal stays in MH6
Should have mentioned Coral Pukei, which is arguably the most moveset impactful tail sever in the main series.
I feel like the *gameplay* is moving away from the tail. we're being emphasized to go after the face for everything...despite tails being a fairly good hitzone.
Same with weapon roles. Back in the older games there was no flinch free and each weapon had its own role depending on the party setup. Hammer, HH on the head, DB and SnS for elemental hitzones, LS and maybe Lance for tail, ranged weapons kept their distance, IG mounted and everyone let the GS user to the best hitzones for cut damage.
Nowadays everyone will just get angry, then someone will yell SLOT FLINCH FREE and I really can't blame either side because it was the developers that didn't know if they wanted to keep the mechanic or abandon it to let everyone do max DPS.
@@eser8167 I miss highly distinct hitzones.
It makes sense, the tail isn’t very vital so hitting shouldn’t do much damage. Meanwhile the head houses the brain which is the most vital organ.
@@julianadams3710 Depends. Some monsters have very thick and armoured skulls but weak tails. Also the tail is an extension of the spine so it still has nerves and stuff.
Even after I shifted from being a LS main to a CB main; I still instinctively aim for the tail when possible lol
I've removed that video from my recommendations over, and over, and over _and over again._ Thanks for refuting it.
I love how in all these clips you carve the tail while still fighting the monster lol. Great video though, I had actually seen the referenced video first and initially I had agreed but I really just hadn't put much thought into any counter arguments like this video and I agree with all the points you made
I do that all the time, especially in arenas. You never know when you're gonna randomly get deleted before you can carve the tail
Always taunt the monster with a tail carve. Hunting 101
I do feel really bad for Pukei-Pukei when it tries to use its poison attack, so I get the point.
I was wondering if Nibelsnarf tail were cutable since 3u, I now have an answer, I just though it was almost impossible to cut it due to the tail being 95% under the ground
Coral Pukei-Pukei. When you chop its tail off, it loses almost all of its attacks and becomes a beatdown.
Yeah, I think my only complaint with tail cuts is how they've lost some of the actual gameplay impact. Back in the day, cutting a tail and getting that extra carve(and usually an extra chance for a rare plate) was a pretty big deal when you were farming parts. Nowadays, with the addition of gathering palicoes and wyvern riding drops in order to feed the melding pot machine, the actual benefits of getting that extra tail carve are relatively slim. It's easy to just forget about it entirely and just focus on hitting for DPS. Plus, the actual tail item isn't really all that important because it's pretty rare to need one for anything other than just cooking them, and you get them fairly easily from quest rewards.
While I sort of agree, the obsession of tail carves were more because of the plate/ruby chance. When people did "Tail Hunts" (where they would cut off the tail, carve it, and if they didn't get their plate, abandon quest) then you know you have a problem. Back in Tri, I captured the Rathalos over 100 times, cutting the tail at least 80% of the time and never got a Rathalos ruby, I am thankful it's not that grueling anymore.
You say this but I started playing hammer after always using bladed weapons and not being able to get tail cuts is a serious nerf when you need 3 diablos tails for the diablos hammer
Man most of the tails introduced in newer games have been more satisfying than others.
While the raths were satisfying to lop off (like most flying wyverns tbh), the elders (especially Chamelos) as well as things like the Zingore were frustrating to cut, even if the tails felt substantial.
Meanwhile things like the Malzeno and Mangamalo have some nice long tails that are severable, and since they're used as weapons, it's like being presented with a nice weakpoint in the process if you know to dodge the attack.
It feels like Sofa's statement is based on the Pukei Pukei and that's it, which bird wyverns rarely can be cut anyway.
Did sofa not like the Pukei tail cut? For me it’s one of the better examples because Pukei and especially Coral Pukei both have a lot of attacked that require a full tail
My main problem with Rise cuts is that only ONE of the brand new monsters has a proper tail cut, that being Gaismagorm. The rest of them only let you cut the SIDE of the tail, not even the tip. Even Narwa only lets you sever one of her tail spikes, changing effectively nothing. World had a lot of really good tailcuts so it was disappointing to see this happen with Rise.
cutting gaismagorms tail off was like my first cut in the series it was amazing.
Enjoyed the video! But you COMBAT CARVING LITTLE GREMLIN lmao.
Great video! Very interesting to look at it from the designers perspective through interviews
I think the only complaint I have with the "deemphasized tail cuts" is even with the map marker for the tail location, certain environment effects like water and tall grass can hide the tail piece and make it difficult to find.
I remember having a rough time in 4U with Shagaru Magala's tail, because sometimes it's hidden in the arena rocks since the gold-white scales are similar to the arena.
You can still cook various tails in Rise, I did that with a bunch of Anjanth tails.
One of my favorite tail cuts in the franchise is Zenaserisu's because if you cut his tail and wing tendrils you effectively castrate his moveset, but by the time the tail and tendrils come off he's already near death.
Some of the tail cuts in MHR can feel a bit underwhelming. When I first fought Almudron and I saw him gather a big ball on his tail I went ham to try chop off the big ball hoping it'd fall off and roll around. It just broke and I was sad.
Almudron has a 2 stage tail cut. You break it first then chop it. Just like Mizu and glavenus
@@Faint366 I know. I'm talking about the mud ball it gathers up sometimes. I want it
@@Spahki The almighty dung pod
A good response to the original video. Much more objective, and I appreciate bringing in developer commentary and yknow, data, instead of saying "here a few of my friends ranked how cool the chunks of tail coming off looks lol"
I’m a simple man. I see tail. I try to cut it
what a superb and well thought out argument. thanks for this
great video x
Honestly you can still fuck up some monsters in rise and stuff too. It's really weird for me to realize when a horn is missing or the neck frill is fucked up as I wasn't expecting it (I'm new to the game). It's neat to see the changes that happen as you chase and that some get more aggressive as they begin to die. It's honestly so like a real creature sometimes I feel bad about killing another izuchi or lagombi. They limp when they run and even lose energy. They have weight.
The problem I have with smaller tailcuts is that that just don't live up to the subconscious expectation you make when first fighting a monster with a tail that looks cuttable.
I experienced this most with Seregios and Malzeno. In my head I could clearly see what portion of the tail I felt should be cuttable and was then greatly disappointed to find that I got much less than what I wanted.
I know its a case of creating my own expectations and a game can't possible account of that, but come on, I looked up Seregios' tail cut pre-Sunbreak and they did not have to nerf it by that much.
Deviljho's tail cut does feel a little brutal because as someone who knows dinosaur anatomy, Jho should not be able walk after that.
Yeah we cut throw its spine wich causes Major nerve damage and severe pain. Possibly even paralyzis. Not to mentiom its balance whould be fd up and hed just constantly fall over.
For tobi kadachi, there are several times where it bounce rolls on its tail, and having the tail come off would overly complicate the animation process for these moves. The tail is also where the most fur for static electricity it stored, and destroying it would probably reduce the effectiveness of the weapons we make from it
There's also the problem that half it's body mass and lethality is strongly rooted in it's tail. So, cutting of it's tail would basically be it's death at that point. Deviljho gets it's giant hunk of meat torn off because it's only 1 part of it's terrifying moveset, AND to set up the hilarity(or macabre) of it eating it's own tail.
I remember the first time Bish threw all his fruit. I was like Wow is the monster trying to bait me... or maybe he's trying to distract me to escape. I wanted that fruit but didn't want to fall for what appeared to be a simple mechanic. I'll take that fruit over just another tail cut any day. Even if it doesn't benefit me as much it's just fascinating to think about the reason behind this monster doing this.
How funny would it be if whenever he dropped the fruit, he would immediate run as if changing areas, but he just keeps running and if you let him get through 4 areas without being attacked, he escapes?
On the Tobi Karachi response part of the video "what about monster than you could cut off but can't" well as a player of world as both my first introduction and my only experience about half of the monsters body is it's tail. Tobi is also one of the faster monsters in game too. The tail in the hunter notes are also regarded as the main weak spot. So even if they took of a small part of the tail it would make the hunt harder for your missing more weak spot
True. Bazelgeuses tail is relatively safe to hit but it getting cut off makes the fight harder
@@draw2death421 my reply to that is when should a player be comfortable with difficulty. Tobi in mhw at least is word one level one just about. You can hunt a Tobi once to finish the totoreal. So as one of thoughs there mite have been to lighten the difficulty. they added a few monster to the same area that are harder too. Rathlos in particular by what the dev rate the difficulty.
This is like watching a retort to Jacob Anderson, it's amazing and it needs to happen way more often.
If I remember properly, the musculature of Lunagaron's tail helps the animal walk/maintain balance in the quadrupedal form. So i guess they though removing it would be too cruel, since that would basically cripple it.
That can be said for pretty much any monster with a tail cut. If you cut a Rathalos' tail, it realistically wouldn't be able to balance itself anymore. The tail is a counterweight to the head, so without the tail the head just falls on the floor. Same goes for something like Deviljho. If you cut its tail, it would tip over to the front.
@@DaShikuXI Have you considered that Deviljho is simply too angry to succumb to physiology?
@@DaShikuXI
HUNTER: How are you doing that, Deviljho?! You should be falling over!
DEVILJHO: F*ck you, that's how.
Thats kinda dumb. I mean shoudnt that then happen with Diablos too? Or gravious?
@@draw2death421 My hunter shouldn't be able to run around with a greatsword on his back at a normal speed either, but sometimes you're allowed small breaks from reality when designing game mechanics.
yeah I just felt like sofa's vid was in the pile of hundreds of other vids that calls back on the way monster hunter used to be
but in reality it was never like that and they're just misremembering
so the argument isn't that they got worse, but that they were never good to begin with
I really wasn't sure what to think after the first video, but this really all made alot of sense to me and it was super informative seeing the origins of the series and design philosophy! Great video
You said around 10:55 that tail cuts always affect the fight, with examples like a shorter attack range. In Monster Hunter World, I noticed the opposite. The Diablos tail attack seems to have no different hitbox after the cut. You can see it slam down the tail club... even though the club is not there at all. It doesn't touch the ground with the tail, yet it slammed the ground through sound and particles.
Also, while the argument about certain tail cuts being too influential on a fight is sure relevant, it can have the same deal like with Coral Pukei-Pukei. while you can deal sever damage on its tail throughout the entire fight, you can only deal that last hitpoint to cut it when the monster is on like 25 or 20% health, to prevent this tail cut from being a cheese method for the fight.
Thank god there was a response. I watched 10 minutes of the original video and wound up frustrated, because it felt like the data was being misrepresented and pointed towards arguments that really didn't make sense in context. Glad I wasn't the only one. There's genuine gripes to be had with the transition from classic MH to newer entries, and arguments like that end up putting so much smoke in the water that it's hard to have a genuine discussion.
My $0.02:
There are 3 things worth discussing here. 1.) ability to get an extra carve with higher chance of tail or gem part, 2.) decreasing combat ability of monster 3.) "satisfying" gameplay feel / visual modeling of breaking parts
In world and rise in general it's easier to get the tail parts from captures, quest rewards, and palico plunders, so 1) is less of an issue.
For 2) I think this is hit and miss. With glavenus you can barely tell the difference. With Rathian and Rathalos it's becoming harder to in the more recent games. Personally I would prefer if breaking parts / cutting tails would result more often in certain moves not being usable anymore rather than just being less damaging or having a smaller hitbox.
For 3) this is a bit more subjective. I think in general the issue isn't so much with the size of the tail that comes off and is carvable but more the monster model after the break. For instance, after Glavenus reheats a broken tail it doesn't even look like he lost anything anymore. And a lot of moves make it look like a tail's regenerated for other monsters as well The bit you take off Kushala in World and Rise is hardly visible as missing on the model. Likewise with Teostra.
As far as the gore aspect goes, I agree Capcom has definitely always been aiming at a lighter atmosphere to monster hunter, so it makes sense that you're not seeing a lot of blood or guts in these games. It would be interesting to see more competitor games out there that maybe go further and have a more mature tone (The Surge is a good example)
I would love to see a game like monster Hunter with an 18+ version
Idk if they already fixed it but in Rise when you cut off Rathian tail it's still can poison you with non-existing spikes that were there.
Also, I miss "more blood" cheat code from psp Monster Hunters
In most mh games Rathian still poisons with a cut tail, the only game to my knowledge that she doesn’t poison is world/iceborne
@@WillowStarshower hmm, maybe it was a long time since I played older ones but I think she didn't poison with it in MHFU but can be wrong it was years ago
@@kageoukami according to the wiki it’s every game before world that she poisons with a cut tail
@@WillowStarshower ok, good to know, but they should make it work correctly like in world anyway, rise is a new game, it should stick to some details like this one, it would be even better if they would add more details like this (a bit realistic)
I did have the thought with Rise that they were getting worse. You've eased my mind and changed my opinion. Thanks. *Le bow.*
My only question is why is Seregios' tail cut smaller in Sunbreak than it used to be?
I think it’s because he has a tail attack that throws scales. It looks weird in GU when he swings a tail stub and scales still fly off from nowhere.
Yep. In mhgenu and mh4u you cut off the like 30% of the tails tip while in sunbreak you break off just one side of the tail wich in turn makes it so cutting it doesent really do anything
Maybe it's not monsters overall but the endgame content where monsters on average are less likely to have tail cuts?
Looking at all monsters out of context isn't fair to player experience.
good video with good counter points but glavenus is the very example of a monsters that had a reduced tailcut.
back in gens we could remove the whole blade par of the tail, making it blunt, the tail is still there, just the blade, witch is bellow the tail bone is removed, considereing that glavenus has a diffcult tail cut, it was very rewarding to get a damage reduction and a smaller hitbox, but in iceborne, we just remove the very tip of the tail, which is worse and makes so a diffcult tail cut rewards us with a slightely smaller hitbox but no damage reduction nor is the hitbox as small as it used to be, quite literally nerfing the tail cut despite it not being a bit deal in the previous gen, and its not like it breaks the phylosohphy of tail cuts nor made disabled his moves, it doesnt break the bone part, just flaming metal part and the tail still retains most of its size and doesnt make it impossible for glavenus to use his attacks, the glavenus tail cut in gen 5 is just worse than in gen 4 with no real reason.
I wouldn't say because of no real reason. The reason they down sized the cut was for Acidic Glavenus. He had a much thinner and smaller tail that it had to be translated to regular Glavenus since they share an almost identical model
In MHRise, Rathian does still poison you with her tail and cutting it does nullify her ability to do that. You also have the motley mix at the dango bar to get food tickets and you get more of them from turning in tails as well getting steaks and other goodies, so you may not have realized, but the same importance is on tail cutting as in previous games from what you've shown.
Imagine being able to cut Glavenus's ENTIRE tail off.
Imagine how boring his fight would be without a tail that he could sharpen and swing around.
At that point the only way he could attack you reasonably is with bites and fireballs; He'd be handicapped to hell and back.
Imagine if you cut a big chunk of Glavenus' tail, and then its moveset turns into Acid Glavenus.
@@DaShikuXI Perhaps we could see a Glavenus Rare Species do that one day.
About tobi kadaki, when tobi kadaki glides it flattens and extends it's tail so the tail serves a vital function in tobi kadaki's flying abilities, the tail is it's main weapon too so I supose severing kadaki's tail jeopardizes all it's movement and attacks, is just a combination of bishaten and legiana scenarios, both have tails that you could cut but then the monster becomes unable to perform vital parts of what makes it unique.
“souvenirs”? now i wish we could decorate rooms with monster parts like fangs, horns, etc
2:28 Little note on this, youre absolutely right. However this is a rare instance of where lore classification like flying wyvern, bird wyvern etc. are actually not very descriptive of the monsters technical makeup. This is because Yian Garuga and Pukei-pukei actually have the same rig (basically an animation skeleton used in computer graphics) as most flying wyverns.
You can see it when they are idle and havent spotted the hunter. Their pose and animations for walking and looking around are identical to those of prominent flying wyverns like the raths etc. It explains on a technical level why these "bird wyverns" have cutable tails, whereas the other bird wyverns (or Raptors as I tend to refer to them) dont.
Thank you so much!!! I honestly getting tired of this nitpicking if monster hunter has lost its charm....like so much. I honestly don't care how big the tail is either I'm just enjoying the series and the monsters.
This video isn’t a defense on the charm argument tho. And in fact in another of his videos he actually specifies that he *agrees* that the series has lost a bit of its charm
most tail cuts i've got no issues with, but seregios in particular's tail when cut off did get nerfed in rise. GenU had the big meaty chunk on the end get lobbed off whereas sunbreak's steve's tail only has a singular spike from the tail get cut off which is a lot smaller and harder to see
I think I was in the camp that didnt quite agree with the other video, though there were some good points.
On the issue of ickyness, I do think at this point there's enough of a tradition for them to at least consider ways to change it up for freshness. In particular, the tails feel like they've long since stopped being icky, but alluring instead. The cross sections have enough detail to invoke appetite at times, and we know they're edible because it's an option when ordering food in sunbreak. I know I would like to cut a gyrados tail specifically for that reason. That said, I imagine they would have to redesign a whole of behavior and AI for just this, so it might just not be worth working on over other more pressing mechanics.
my main gripe is how they practically doubled tigrex's tail break threshold from MHworld to MHrise. it use to be one of the better parts to target as it would help mitigate the large spin attack, but now it has gone from one of the easiest parts to the absolute hardest to cut and it's messed with the dynamic of the fight
This is my issue. Seems like, between increased break thresholds and the general increase in movement speed, tails are just a PITA to cut in Rise.
Add in the fact that they don't really offer anything that you can't get from the end screen or shinies and the whole mechanic just feels vestigial.
People like complain about the cut tails becoming tinier but damn they are becoming cooler, I remember ther first time I severed the tail of a glavenus in Gen, how the tip of the blade broke of and fell skewered on the ground and you could see the steam coming off the tail as it cooled off, man that was peak soul, the tail can even hurt you if it falls over your head.
btw, in I think a lot of the lizards that can throw their tails off, they have segmented tails. That means that their tails have segments and weak points that can easily be broken off
this video was put together really nice good job
5:33 alternate reality screenshots?
Naw it’s real
Monster Hunter Cryptid
The most fascinating part of this video to me is going over Capcom's reasoning for what they did. For a while I've been wondering why they didn't do more elaborate damage models, like cutting off wings, limbs, ect. and why it was just limited to tails. It does make more sense now knowing that they just didn't want to squick too many people.
I'm like you in that I don't really care too much about it. I just like it when breaking parts or severing tails has a gameplay implication to it. Weakening attacks, disabling effects, lowering resistance, or even getting extra/special parts.
This is a great point that honestly I'd never considered before. The game is called Monster Hunter, but really you're not hunting in the way humans in the real world do. You're fighting a monster, one that always poses an active threat. I think one of the reasons that certain subsets of monsters don't have tail cuts is that they look too much like real animals. Yian Garuga is a dragon and Zinogre is massive, but Yian Kut-Ku is an oversized chicken and Tobi Kadachi is basically just a mammal with scales. Cutting the tail off of those monsters would feel like cutting the tail off a real animal, rather than disabling a dangerous fantastical creature.
My biggest problem with tail cuts since gen 4/5 is that its really not necesary at all. You can get 2 3 tails as rewards for no reason at all. That is stupid imo.
Bad opinion it’s an absurd amount of tails for the soulseer merchandise. If I had to cut a tail each time to get 70% chance of gettting a soulseer tail I would instantly die
Also blunt weapons rely on it
Not only that, tails are barely used in crafting as well most of the time. Main reason to get tails now is for food.
Play 4u again. They are doing this intentionally. Back in the day ypu couldn't get parts lie tails, however rns claws aso without breaking the parts and breaking the parts was also not a guarantee you would get it. Additionally, most of these items would then onoy drop 1 while ypu needed 4 of them for 1 weapon. This made the game way more grindy for no reason. In the newer games they changed it so you can get most items just by hunting the monster. Hunting monsters for specific parts and then not getting them because the rng or just simply unluck on the quest in breaking said part is frustrating so in the newer games capcom reserved this for gems aso.
not just gen 4-5
they have been doing that mechanic for a long time. im playing unite right now on my emulator and i got a rathalos/rathian tails from the capturing rewards but never cut their tails off, im using a bow.
Personally I’m fine with whatever they do with the tail cuts as far as size is concerned I just wish they affected the fights a little more drastically in ice born if you cut off coral Pookie‘s tail it took away a larger amount of its move set unfortunately it is not that way in rise I understand not every monster has a bunch of tail based moves but certain monsters it would be more logical to take away a few weapons from its arsenal if the tail was chopped off
This video's thumbnail really has "you vs the guy she tells you not to worry about" energy.
Freedom Unite only had a handful of monster that you could cut the tail, and it barely did anything, I don't get the point there
Man, you really came in here just to stomp that video lol. God damn you murdered him!
Everyone gets hype for a tail cuts. We need more tail cuts. Tail cuts are glory
I never thought I'd see two videos on this subject lol
Lorewise we coul just assume that hunters don't cut them because they either feel bad or is some kind of hunter code. Which would make sense ngl
you want something really fun and interactive with the rathian tail cut? make it remove her ability to poison you, but then make a completely new variant, and have her throw poison everywhere from her stump once her tail is cut. one of the attacks making pools of poison on the ground, some attacks spreading it in the air and poisoning you without knocking you back, and so on.
i think it could add an incredible layer of depth to the details of monsters if they made a few where cutting/breaking a part is not an absolute advantage and might even make the fight harder in a specific way.
"We here at Capcom don't want players to feel too bad or icky about hurting the monsters."
_Meanwhile behind the scenes_
"Heheh how about when you break magnamalo's horn that condemns it to a life of solitude, never able to get a mate and dies alone."
This is going to be a long comment, so tl;dr:
I'd like more part breaks that have a (larger) impact on the fight, and I don't think this would be too out-of-line with the current design philosophy.
First up, on tail cuts, I strongly agree with what you've said about them feeling less incentivised in Rise, and the example of Rathian still being able to poison is a good one. I don't have anything to add to this, other than maybe that when a monster has a really big tail it feels much less satisfying to cut off just a small bit. But that's a trade-off, you still want the tail attacks to be somewhat threatening, and can't just give every monster a huge tail. I'd still like the cut on, say, Anjanath to be a little higher up, but it's not a big thing.
As far as Capcom's design philosophy, you said yourself that the fight should feel throughout like you're fighting a monster at the top of its game, and it's a threat all the way through. I feel like the exhaustion effect flies in the face of this, though. At times during the fight, a monster will just stand still, panting, while the hunters just beat it up. And unlike with a knockdown or sleep where the monster gets straight back in the fight afterwards, an exhausted monster will use one or two attacks, usually weaker and slower than usual, then stand there panting again while the hunters smash it up even more. Rise's anomaly hunts make 1-2 exhausts a central element to the fight, and it's hard not to feel bad for the monster as it stands there catching its breath after each attack. So even if the monster starts the fight at full strength, by the time you're halfway through that's just not true any more.
I'm not saying whether exhaustion is a good or bad gameplay element, just that it's a counterexample to the monsters always being at their strongest.
Onto the main point about part breaks affecting fights more - first of all, notice I didn't say tail cuts. The elder dragon trio's horns are another example of part breaks that change the combat gameplay, with a key element of each fight being made less dangerous as a result. Barrioth's claws too, where it falls over after some attacks when they're broken. I feel like this could be more widespread. Maybe flying wyverns not staying in the air for as long if their wings are broken, and Rathian needs to stabilise itself a little before doing a flip, or Bazelgeuse does one fewer swoop before diving. Maybe Bishaten could be tripped more easily when its tail is broken because it's not as stable to stand on. Breaking Somnacanth's head could make its sleep effects move more slowly, or Diablos's horns could make it dig into and out of the ground more slowly, giving a bigger opening or smaller jump.
Lastly, an idea I've had for a while - what if certain part breaks or tail cuts actually made the monster *more* dangerous? Incentivise attacking the part with a rare part reward and high hitzone, make it slightly easier to break, then make a couple of moves slower but stronger once it breaks. Take Astalos, for example - one of the spikes breaks of its tail. What if those are used to focus the tail laser? So once one breaks off, the attack comes out as a cone instead, hitting a wider area. Or any monster could have a tail cut where the lighter tail now whips round slightly faster but does less damage. There are plenty of monsters that spit fireballs, what about reducing the number but making them bigger or having them explode after the head is broken? These are all random concepts that will never get implemented, but the point is that a broken part can change a fight without necessarily making it easier, and still feel reasonable.
And there are cases where the tail cut does nothing to nerf the range of tail attacks at all, prime examples from 4th and 5th gen primarily, major examples being bloodbath diablos, astalos, magnamalo etc etc, that being said i hate tails which you have to break first before you can sever, such as narga before rise. Also some tails have super bloated hp pools which means you have to focus it down in order to get the cut before the monster runs out of hp
I don't feel too strongly about this topic, but I do think this is a much better reasoned and researched video than Laughing Sofa's and I appreciate that
I think the only tail cut I actually have a problem with is Magnamalo, its hitbox is tiny and usually frustratingly out of reach plus it only drops a single spike rather than the whole tail. Again that's probably a gameplay-first design choice but man
Small correction. You can still cook tails in Rise with motley mix.
All fun and games until you realise some of the hammers are literally the monster head slammed on a stick
Tbh almudrons tail cut is a crime to society
Tobi's tail can't be cut off because it would make the fight harder. It's got the softest hitzone for blademasters, and making it smaller would make it harder to hit.
If the devs said you can't cut tobi kadachis tail because it would affect the fight too much it's because it would take away or weaken too many of his attacks. It would nerf the fight too much. It sounds like they don't want tail cuts to change the fight much at all except for maybe 1 or 2 attacks not a monsters whole kit.
Edit: you say this eventually
Just the slightest nitpick (Doesn't change the point of the video at at all, I just gotta scratch the mental itch XD) Pretty sure you can still cook tails in motley mix
LMAO I never used the feature so I had no idea
Oh well, my bad
1:58 Duramoboros is not a tail cut by your definition. It's a 2 stage part break in which first the shell crackss an second the outer layer breaks off, but the bulb still remains intact. Furthermore can the second stage only be accomplished by blunt weapons, which directly contradicts the idea of a "cut" by default.
"When a section of the tail on the monster model is severed from the main model and falls to the ground as a carveable entity"
- The shell is a section of the tail. check
- The shell is part of the monster's model. check
- The shell is severed from the main model. check
- The shell falls to the ground and can be carved. check
It literally meets every single element of the definition in the video. It objectively does. How did you come to the conclusion that it doesn't?
"It's a 2 stage part break". So what? Nargacuga is also a two-stage break. That's completely irrelevant.
"the second stage only be accomplished by blunt weapons". That is just flat out wrong. Duramboros' tail can be severed with ANY weapon type. Even bombs can sever it. Blunt weapons in MH have a sharpness value anyway, so your semantic argument is moot regardless.
Literally every single word you typed is wrong. How the hell did this get 14 upvotes?
Oh, and just in case.
Sever: to break or separate, especially by cutting. Meaning that cutting is not a hard requirement for something to count as being severed.
My only nitpick with tail cuts is that Rathian can still cause poison after a tail cut sometimes in gen 5 games and that Velkana can refreeze the spike onto her tail, negating the bonus of cutting it.
Tbh Velkhana just making a fake tail to stab you is kinda badass
Honestly, I 100% agree with this video, BUT...
The think what I and many others take issue with is the relationship between tail cuts being impactful, and newer tail cuts being small. This is where it comes in as feeling like we're getting japed on the newer monsters. You used Velkanna as an example: it has a thin rapier-tail, and you can cut it. But after you cut it... the fight is not affected. She grows an ice tail of the same size on the stub to stab you for all of her usual tail attacks, and most of us never noticed a difference. Similarly for Magnamalo: you chip off one of the wings of his "spear" tail. As far as can be observed, this does not affect his attacks in any way. In both cases an probably others I'm missing, there is no change to the fight, and only a minor material reward.
On the other hand, cutting off something like Glavinus' tail _does_ affect the fight, that chunk of it's tail _does_ matter: I have absolutely watched an Acidic Glavinus hit my friend with a Marth tipper that he would have survived without the extra reach. I change my spacing against many monster pre- and post-cut.
I like that only certain tails can be cut, especially now after your video and the realization that they are generally consistent in what can be cut and why. But I want to see an immediate, battle-affecting change to reward me for doing the cut. Me and my squad cheered the first time we cut Velkanna's tail... only to groan when it stabbed us just the same with an icicle where the spike was. I would have LOVED it if it's tail-cut flinch had a bit where it grows a stubby, sharp icy cap over the stump, but now has like a meter less reach. Or was forced to do a longer spike-growing tell before using tail attacks. Same for Magnamalo: either taking off a more noticeable chunk, or maybe being able to break his tail multiple times... and that being impactful. Something like his flicks shoot out less fireballs, the Wizard Spin being way shorter or needing more spins to wind up, or the stabs doing noticeably less damage, or causing him to flinch when the tail-tip is parried or power-guarded.
I get not being able to cut every tail, and the reasons why. But there would have been no fight difference if hitting Magnamalo's tails just dropped a shiny. As time has gone on, the cuts seem less impactful on fights, even returning ones (I was _peeved_ when Rise Rathian poisoned me with by slapping me with her stump). When I do get to do something, I want it to matter. Hell, I'd even be ok with some making the fight _harder_ a-la Kulve Taroth's mantle break, like if Apex Rathian went from "dangerously poisonous tail spikes" to "oh god the severed stump has bad reach but is now leaking pools of toxin on the ground after EVERY attack!" that's still an _impact._ Make Apex Toxin Tail a material, only drops from tail sever rewards and carves, and now you have to manage and plan around it.
I'm not in the camp of "uug Monster Hunter baaaad now," I've replayed the old games recently. Monster Hunter is the best it's ever been. But it can be better and I _will_ complain about it, because I love it.
I've never played monster hunter, but I am firmly in the more tail cuts camp.
You can cook monster materials in Rise too and i am pretty sure that there are also tails among them.
16:25 But overall : " *NOBODY CARE !* "
Thank you for this video I watched mr Sofas video and didn’t really find it true
I'm only 50 hours into monster hunter world and noticed right away how easy is to cut monsters tails.
I just wished when I cut the TAIL off and carve the TAIL, I’d get the TAIL monster part. My luck is just terrible and end up getting scales lol.