The fact he actually decided to walk across the bridge shows true dedication. I've biked across a whopping once and will never again because of the absolute misery it was. Loud enough to give you hearing damage, the last section into vancouver is super steep, and the "walkways" (if you can even call those afterthoughts that) arent even 3 feet wide
I walked onto the bridge from Jantzen Beach, and realizing how much more of a walk it was going to be across the river was enough for me to decide to take some pictures and turn back.
And isn't just so wonderful that the current CRC, the IBR Program will have to make the bridge approaches at least a solid mile long before the actual bridge itself at a insane 4 degrees? God I just love that so much, you know? Just so much logic and common sense has gone into this current iteration of the CRC plans. Oh and for the record, that 4 degree angle? That's tied for the steep angle of any bridge in the nation with the new bridge across Tampa Bay. Now, imagine all that oil slick, gas, road/engine soot, rain and snow/ice mixing on those approaches. Yeah. $6B spent on PR & "Outreach" by the IBR so far for... that. Burn our tax money, baby!
You think that's bad? You should try riding across the Columbia on the Astoria bridge. The "walkway" is maybe 18 inches wide. I'm not even sure if it was intended as a walkway. No real shoulder. Great fun in a gusty windstorm, when cars are whizzing past you about a foot away. The Interstate Bridge, by comparison, is a bicyclist's pardise.
I have lived in Vancouver for 61 of my 69 years, long enough to recall the bridge toll booths - and plenty of other bridge stories. For 30 years I was a reporter at The Columbian in Vancouver, covering primarily transportation. As our offices were darn near within spitting distance, anything newsworthy bridge-wise was easy to cover. Some trivia from the past: One hot summer evening in the 1990s the bridge was lifted for river traffic. Problem was, all that steel had expanded in the heat and one of the lift spans would not seat properly. Traffic was snarled for hours until Portland Fire Bureau boats could reach the scene and cool the steel with river water. The expansion joints were later modified to prevent a reoccurrence. Unseen by the bridgetender crew, a lone pedestrian was walking across the lift span when all this happened and he, like the traffic, was stalled for hours, albeit with a nice view of sunset from his high vantage point. No, he faced no punishment. For decades the bridge has had a chronic problem with hundreds, if not thousands, of starlings that roost all over what surely must be one of the best places on the planet to build a nest. There’s no upside for humans, though, as the birds shit all over the place, including beneath the sheet metal covers that are supposed to protect the huge trunnions, or pulleys, that are part of the lift spans. From time to time crews have to pressure wash all that crap off the trunnions and lift cables, a job which, no surprise, requires a nighttime closure. In the 1990s the Oregon Department of Transportation attempted to rid the bridge of the birds by periodically firing an air cannon like those used in orchards. It worked - for a few seconds. The birds flew off at the sound of the cannon, and soon learned they could promptly return. One nice summer day in that era a fellow in a sailboat reasoned that he could sail under the lift span with his too-tall mast because the boat was heeled over in the wind. What he didn’t anticipate was that, you know, there’s no wind under a bridge of that size. The boat righted itself in the gap between the bridge’s twin lift spans. But because he had attempted his maneuver during the period where no lifts are permitted, in order to reduce rush-hour traffic jams, he had to wait it out. This allowed plenty of time for a reporter (me) and photographer to memorialize his brilliant sailsmanship in the next day’s paper. Also in that decade or thereabouts a truck spilled an enormous quantity of paint in the northbound lanes near the bridge entrance. The paint obliterated lane markings, and officials ordered more pressure washing, and thus more shutdowns, to blast away much of the paint. In the late 1990s a large truck carrying a load of Lima beans managed to dump its cargo in the northbound lanes. Of course it was during rush hour. The newspaper’s photo the next day carried a caption with a headline (we call them overlines) that read, “Another reason to hate Lima beans.” A couple other notes: Rob notes that, given its age, the bridge is in decent shape. ODOT engineers, wisely realizing that the process of replacing the damn thing could go on for centuries, have proceeded with projects that have included repainting the bridge, a project that involved wrapping - no kidding - the entire structure in plastic so it could be sandblasted and painted without allowing lead to fall into the river. Showing an ocean-going freighter as an example of “ships” that cause bridge lifts is an exaggeration. The vast majority of lifts don’t require anywhere near the full height of the lift spans’ travel, and freighters of that size have nowhere to dock upriver. Not to mention the fact that the river is not dredged upriver of the bridge to a depth sufficient for large vessels. Nevertheless, as the vid shows, interrupting that much traffic with even a “quick” lift causes a rambo jambo every time.
@@kc7affThank you! A couple more: Long before the unsuccessful air cannon attempt to scare away the starlings, employees in the bridgetender’s office - a steel box suspended between the twin lift spans - tried to deal with the birds. I interviewed one fellow - he was a riot - who detailed his fruitless attempts with a charming sense of humor. One day he decided that a bag of rubber snakes from a dime store would be just the thing. Snakes in hand, he walked across the top chord of one lift span, glueing the snakes to the steel plate as he went. (Think about that for a second: He is strolling across a steel pathway just a few feet wide, without railings, while the entire thing shakes, rattles and rolls from the traffic below.) Before he got to the end of the span, “I looked back and the birds were pulling those snakes off.” This is a bit that has always fascinated me, but requires some mechanical engineering thought. The spans are raised by surprisingly small motors that wind up bundles of lift cables that go all the way from the roadway to the tops of those big towers. At the tops of the towers, and easily seen in any photo, are enormous concrete blocks, one at each tower. Encased in steel framework and attached to the cables, they are the counterweights. Each pair weighs roughly that of each lift span. (Without counterweights it would take enormous power to lift the spans.) So far, so good. But if you look at 8:27 in the video and freeze the frame, objects can be seen on the top of the counterweight on the right. Those are stacks of smaller concrete blocks. Why? When the span is repaved, the blocks must be added to accommodate the additional weight of new pavement (or any other modifications that add significant weight.) But over time the asphalt wears away, and the blocks must be removed - there’s another traffic-choking nighttime span lift -- to equalize the weight of the counterweights and lift spans. I have long forgotten the amount, but the permitted weight imbalance is no doubt just a few tons. Geeky stuff, that is. Tell that at your next party and watch the guests move on.
Thanks for the memories! I had forgotten several of these until your recap. I remember one time in the 90’s a boat got stuck under the bridge, causing all southbound traffic to absolutely stop for the bulk of the work day. i can’t recall the whole thing but I do recall being very late for a meeting. Fortunately, I did have a “mobile” phone (as they were called then) and was able to let my boss know I would be late. I only even made it to the meeting because someone was able to help several of us back up enough to maneuver to the exit so I could take the road all the way around to I-205. I lived in Orchards at that time and was frustrated that I hadn’t taken 205 to begin with, that morning. But my meeting was in Tigard, so I had thought I-5 would be better. I live and work south of portland now. I love the old bridge for the memories of childhood and my youth, but that’s about it!
As a truck driver I actually liked that bridge the handful times I crossed it. Its not your run-of-the-mill concrete Interstate bridge, it actually has character. Breaks up the dull driving on most Interstates
This bridge sucks as a trucker. Theres a really great truck stop in Portland called the Jubitz, its the the only place to stop for like 3 hours if you're going north/south through Portland/Vancouver and it has more parking than any of the other truck stops nearby on that corridor. The problem is that its on the last exit on the Portland side. This means that theres an added concentration of trucks having to go through that weird double loop interchange. During rush hour it would sometimes take 30-45 minutes to get from Jubitz back on to I5.
When driving along I-5, I've taken to crossing the bridge in Longview instead to avoid 5/205 traffic between Portland and the river. Fun fact: I know how to get between Seattle and Eugene without using I-5 at all, knowledge that does come in handy more often than you'd think. It doesn't save me any time per se, but I get the satisfaction of constantly being moving instead of stop and go traffic.
I can definitely appreciate that. When I go to work, I take a freeway which is slightly out of my way. By doing so I avoid about 7 stop lights. The time is about the same, but I really hate stop and go traffic, so it's worth it.
@@LoveClassicMusic0205 ironically I go to work often by driving through an airport. While there are a few traffic lights, it’s less annoying than the stop and go traffic if I take the freeway which is usually very congested when I go in.
@@jonjohnson3027 It is still a good lookin bridge for how old it is. Fun to cross too with it being so high up. Probably a lot less fun to be stuck on every day in traffic though.
Thanks for this very well thought out and researched report. As a bridge guy who starts his career working with a PHD who invested North Ridge, this seriously saddens me
Agreed, but one detail was missed, presumably for time's sake: the southbound on-ramp on Vancouver's side. It's so bad the city has LED warnings for it
@@Lysergic_Yeah, it's similar to the Jantzen Beach one. But by the time I walked back the other side, it was too dark. So, I used the Jantzen footage.
@@RoadGuyRob that makes sense. I bet if Hayden island/jantzen beach wasn't such a grey-area for the two cities then both sides would have the LED light warnings. Fun fact, when I lived in the area I learned that in the past, both Vancouver and Portland liked to drop off the homeless on that island, since it's kind of a no-mans land despite being on Oregon's side
I love those old bridges. Lots of memories, and love the classic design and history. But its very clear even to me that they need to be replaced. I can only hope we end up with something that will work well.
Been following the details of this bridge and driven over it enough to give some insight in addition to what is said in this video: You forgot one very important detail, they can only build so high. The PDX airport (and Fort Vancouver's airport) flies right over the bridge so there is an imposed height limit by the FAA. If they could build as high as they want to heart's content they would but they need to both make it high enough in terms of boat clearance but not high enough that it becomes a hazard for planes putting it into a predicament. The middle of the bridge's curvature is fine for most boats for height so they don't need to operate the drawbridge for them and they can continue on their merry way during peak hours whereas the rail swing bridge upriver isn't. You got the length of it correct, it is a very long beast you have to tackle and it severely restricts and discourages multi-modal transport options, the southern half of the bridge only has one sidewalk on the SE side. It is close to a mile of straight walking to cross the bridge on foot and that is just for the bridge section. You are correct that any redesign really needs to take cycling transportation into account it is horrible. Downtown Vancouver just on the other side of the bridge is seeing a major boom right now whereas Jantzen Beach(the island in-between), which used to be booming back when this bridge was built, and North Portland are not as favorable to be in at this current time. I'd say the media is underestimating just how much the "hill" of the bridge slows down cars. It slows down the speed of the cars from 50mph to 40mph considering the amount of truckers on it, I'd say is the main cause of the traffic jams on the bridge.
I believe it was the Vancouver airfield that mainly constrained the height of the proposed bridge, to which Portland's attitude was "to hell with the Vancouver airfield", but it seemed to have enough clout that this remained a prerequisite to a project that could go forward.
What slows down traffic more is the immediate on and off-ramps. Going southbound drivers are forced to cut off those who are going onto the bridge, and anyone merging for jantzen beach needs to merge over for the off-ramp right where the metal ends, especially any freight. The right lane is used more like a merging/on-off-ramp lane, but since its a part of normal traffic as well its just a big clusterfuck that leaves the new drivers crying with theri hazards on
There's a similar bridge like this in the UK on the isle of Sheppy, entirely made out of concrete, but they can't remove it since it's a listed building now, so they built a huge new bridge over the top of it.
There is one additional issue that is forgotten in this video. The Portland International Airport sits right in between the I-5 and I-205 bridges. Runways 10R and 10L flight lines are right where the bridge is, so there is a height restriction on moving the I-5 bridge upward. The only way a new bridge will be built is when this bridge crumbles and collapses into the Columbia River.
Tolls are planned to be implemented on the existing Interstate 5 (I-5) bridge between Oregon and Washington in early 2026 to help pay for the construction of a new span across the Columbia River. The tolls will also help fund the ongoing maintenance and operations of the bridge
Sounds like it's time to move the airport to some place that doesn't have height issues. It's not like PDX is a gem of an airport anyways. And, they might just move it out of the turbulance from the gorge.
@@DavidWilliams-hf8sc are you out of your mind? its not only one of the best airports in the country, regularly voted to be the best, they just remodeled the main terminal into a damn palace....
I regularly watch this channel it’s funny to see home for me on here. I myself have sat in hundreds of traffic jams and have recently gotten into a crash on this bridge. A lot of the points you covered with the on ramps I never realized was the problem. Not sure they will come up with a solution in my lifetime.
And it gets messier with the Delta Park to Rose Quarter section of I-5 needing widening, but there is no local support for it. I'd really love to see the MAX make it across a new freeway bridge
@@RoadGuyRob Quite frankly i5 at the rose quarter area doesn't need to be widened. And I'm no anti-car guy or NIMBY, but ODOT already confirmed traffic will still suck at the section anyway, simply put - the developers at the time didn't know what they were doing and there's just too many entrances and exits to close together in that area to the point that making more lanes will just make that process worse. They need to rethink where their exits & entrances are going to be at.
@@RoadGuyRob I really wish that folks in Vancouver hadn't killed Portland's intention to run the MAX into Vancouver back when I was in high school. Alas, I wasn't voting age yet. For context, I grew up in Vancouver and currently live in Portland.
My buddy and I walked across that bridge. It's no joke with the amount of debris, noise, and exhaust you are punished with! The sheer volume of traffic on those spans clearly shows the winning argument for a new bridge not to mention the very outdated engineering its constructed with. But dollars are usually spent in a reactive mindset opposed to a proactive one. So when will the I-5 bridge be replaced? Probably when some or all of it unfortunately fails.
My guess is when Seattle feels the pinch of no more I-5 Washington will come bitching and moaning to Oregon and then try to ditch at the last second again.
US 195 onto I-90 going east in Spokane WA has the exact same problem with no merging area right onto a bridge and it is also the most crash prone interchange in our area.
@@acrandal they could make it alot safer if they closed the right lane on I-90 and had the on-ramp enter the freeway as the new right lane. Eventually when they replace the bridge it needs to be 4 lanes going east, but that is really expensive so who knows when that will happen. The whole downtown viaduct has alot of really old and poorly designed on-ramps and off-ramps.
@@RoadGuyRob it's only going to keep getting worse too, the Latah Valley neighborhood that US 195 runs through keeps growing like crazy. I think it has doubled in population since 2005 or something like that.
@@tylerferguson3707 That’s the most sensible short-term solution. It would back things up on 90 a bit with that merge, but it’d be a lot safer and not too dissimilar to the current merge with the ramp. Plus, fewer collisions does make traffic flow better overall, let alone the added safety to life and limb.
I grew up there in the 90s and I remember when the light rail was just one line (Blue Line) that just ran through downtown and through the suburbs. Now there's at least four or five more that I saw when I last visited, the second being the Red Line that runs to and from PDX. Traffic all over that region can be hella crazy from what I had seen!
I drove across that thing a few times when I was in Vancouver/Portland in 2022 and I HATED it. I'm amazed you Washingtonians and Oregonians put up with that thing.
OH DAMN! Them two ex military boats moored at the old red lion sank??those had been sitting there for so long, when I left 5 yrs ago they still looked to be in good shape.
yeah the ex-Sakarissa tugboat and ex-Alert USCG Cutter sank back in 2019, mostly due to homeless vandalism. They have both since been salvaged raised by the Coast Guard, and have been scapped over in Vancouver. This footage must be from before 2020. Maybe he has been editing it for quite some time. This video was released in August 2024
10:38 It's worth noting that the original interstate bridge actually had streetcar tracks. It had 4 lanes, but 2 of those lanes were for automobiles, while the other two were for streetcars. By the 1950s, the 9-foot wide lanes were extremely outdated, as newer cars, trucks, and buses were a lot wider than the vehicles of the 1917 and barely fit in these narrow lanes. As a result, they reduced the bridge from 4 lanes to 3. The new bridge also had 3 lanes, for a total of 6. However, without streetcar tracks, the new bridge actually had a lower total capacity compared to the old bridge (as streetcars can carry far more people per hour per direction). The new bridge will likely have two tracks as well for the MAX light rail.
Yes, some toll roads went toll free like the Coronado Bridge in San Diego, which went toll free in 2002. Some projects collect tolls just to help pay off a project and make them toll free when the project pays off the lenders. Some tolls stay permeant to discourage high traffic into an area and they can often be a source of revenue to make up for cheeper registration costs, which seems to be the case for the east coast.
@@AmtrakandAWVRFanSome tolls will remain for decades because private companies build them, and for every upgrade, they push back the date (by years) at which ownership of the motorway goes back to the government
Neat fact about the bridge, the newer southbound span is wider than the older northbound one, trucks and busses end up right about mirror-to-mirror with eachother going northbound. It's not something you might notice unless you're driving something a bit wider than your regular car. Also as a truck driver if my destination isn't on the west side of Portland or Vancouver I'm taking 205, much more capacity for traffic and fewer speed robbing hills
10 years ago me and some buddies used to sneak onto the lift before it raised. Only works on weekend nights, but it is a view to behold and was such a fun experience
It honestly chills me to the bone thinking how bad a 9.0 earthquake would be for that region. Fingers crossed geology decides to wait a few thousand years.
Portland is working on this. They're going to be closing Burnside bridge for several years to replace it for seismic reasons. The time span is because they have to stop construction during salmon migration periods, as the work disturbs the riverbed quite a lot. The current Burnside bridge cannot be "upgraded" and has to be completely replaced.
@@CRneu helped for a while with the Abernathy project they got going and that's the same reason that one is taking so long. Granted for that one it's not a whole new bridge they're going to split it down the middle and spread the travel lanes to fit more but still
A 9.0 would flood so many coastal areas with tsunamis, so many bridges and buildings would collapse so much developed land would liquefy into sinkholes or would slide away, water and sewer mains would break and burst, and gas pipelines would leak and ignite that many of the survivors would envy the dead. A 9.0 would cause such widespread destruction and devastation that it wouldn’t be far fetched that millions of people would decide to just leave the region for good. Yikes.
I really hope when the rebuild the bridge they have the foresight to expand Portland’s max light rail across to Vancouver, it would greatly help commuters in Vancouver and link the two cities with frequent trains
Won’t happen because Portland’s not willing to split the revenue even though the expect Vancouver to pay for the upkeep of the lightrail system. We would get the bills and they’d get the income.
@@NoelleTakestheSky well, maybe that's a factor, but theres a lot of "that'll let the portland criminals come up to vancouver" nimbyism, and Washington not wanting to pay any appreciable amount towards the bridge because all the politics happen on the other side of the state
As a bicyclist, it is very creepy riding on those narrow outside paths. Your seat is just about at the railing height and it’s just barely wide enough. It definitely feels possible that if you accidentally bump the railing with your handle bar, you could be launched over the edge and into the river.
sad to see the southbound on-ramp didn't get any attention. Imagine an on-ramp even shorter than the northbound side shown, with no merge lane, just traffic shooting onto the freeway. There are multiple construction LED signs/billboards warning drivers during the day to merge left to avoid the on-ramp
@@jacobkorducki6940 On the north bank of the river is WA State Route 14, an east/west freeway. It has a loop around ramp onto southbound I-5 to get over the river. It’s too important of a connector to be simply dismantled or closed.
Nice! In the Netherlands, we have 18 movable bridges in the freeway system, which I think is more than any other country, even though it's a small country.
In Michigan we used to have one moveable bridge in our freeway system, until we replaced it with a huge tall double span concrete bridge (concrete so it won’t rust!) that took about a decade to build. Now the only place in Michigan where you have to stop on a freeway is at the border crossings to Canada. Yay! Edit: I forgot, we have one freeway toll bridge connecting the two peninsulas, and you have to stop to pay the stupid toll.
biggest problem with the bridge is that hundreds of thousands of people who live in Vancouver work in Portland. So every morning, half of Vancouver has to cross the bridge basically at the same time, and every evening head back home at rush hour. A trip that takes 20 minutes at 3am can take hours at 8am.
EXACTLY, and they are refusing to pay ANYTHING towards the project. They don't want the toll, yet they eff up Portland roads. Vantuckians are a stupid bunch
Yet they are the ones that prevent a new bridge bc they don't want max service b/c it'll bring homeless crime. Like I'm in The Couv once a week and their is no shortage of homeless or methheads.
I try to be practical. Cars are not a one-size solution for all our problems. And I'm excited to see new ideas to make cities more walkable and transit friendly. I also don't hate cars. Cars will always be a big component of North American life.
@@RoadGuyRob Agreed. I think nearly everyone will agree that US cities have failed terribly in building cheap, easy transit solutions like downtown light rail and that streets should not be highways, as they are in many parts of the country (stroads). But being anti-car is just impractical
@@sendtothisone Captain George Vancouver sailed through the region in 1792 on an exploratory expedition. It would make sense that the founders of the forts and posts which became cities would name their settlements after the illustrious navigator. Vancouver, WA and Vancouver, British Columbia are at least 300 miles apart. Speaking of Columbia, you have any idea how many different Columbias there are around the New World, all copying each other in naming themselves after Christopher Columbus? A ton. No surprise that there are a plurality of Vancouvers.
Btw, it was the Washington State side of the waterway that killed the new "Columbia River Crossing" in 2013 (after 8 or 9 years of planning and dealing amongst all the stakeholders). You see, the US Dept of Transportation wouldn't provide the massive chunk of funding they were offering for the project if it didn't include light rail mass transit. And a majority of Vancouver residents were adamant that they didn't want their city connected to Portland's already existing light rail system (new, better auto bridge be damned). Then, Washington's state senate 'pulled the plug' on the thing because it would cost more than they wanted to spend. I bring this up because it's very interesting to find out (from this vid! Thanks, Rob!), when the 1917 incarnation of the present bridge was being planned, Washington State also backed out of the deal and the bridge became reality then only because of Oregon stepping up to the plate. History repeats itself. This time, though, it doesn't seem like Oregon taking on the project solo is a good bet!
Once had to make the walk across this bridge because the local CTran busses stopped running all the way to the expo center MAX station. Made the mistake of it also being during the dead of winter at nighttime, so cudos to you for doing it during a pretty day. The fact Vancouver turned down the MAX extension is just an absolute blindsighted mistake that hurts all of the Portland metro, as well as my car free sanity.
It wasn't blind-sighted, it was willful malfeasance in the name of "freedumb", as right-wing local and State legislators agitated that the CRC's inclusion of light rail was at least unnecessary, and at worst Portland forcing Vancouver/Clark County/Washington state to pay for something they claimed nobody would use. People and attitudes like that are why I call Clark County "Far Northwest Mississippi".
It's appalling to see that in no US infrastructure project the maintenance and needed new construction at the end of planned life is taken into account and money allocated to it. It never works like that. They always use it until it runs down and wears out and then the financing wars begin again. It repeats always again and again.
Also the recent cost bloat that's affecting mega construction projects in all English-speaking countries is making it unaffordable for us to build or replace anything we need
@@frafraplanner9277 In Asia, and most of Europe - you do a due plan. X Years. Cost Y. All stakeholders agree on cost Y (and know itr will be Y + 50%). Then construction begins. At the end it cost 3*Y but it is done. In the US: It will costr Y - but we give you 1/10 Y of funding. Begin! Oh money is out and majorities in politics changed. New fight for the next 1/10 of Y. Construction halting for months and years. Lawmakers always wanting to exerce their power and wanting to say NO toi a project even if it has began construction years ago. Prime examples: California HSR, NYC 2nd Ave subway. But also many local street projects.
I live in Vancouver and we need a new bridge for I-5. Lately, the bridge has been cracking and the governors are "trying to rebuild the bridge." Yeah right
I know that bridge - we used to go to Portland to shop a lot (I live in the other Vancouver, north of the border) because well, no taxes, and have memories about it. I also remember travelling a bit too much ont he bridge one night because Jantzen Beach used to have a nice shopping area and it was just south of the state border and we kept getting confused and ended up going onto the bridge and turning around several times.Used to stay in Vancouver (WA) as it was routinely cheaper than go over the bridge to Portland.
It is finally here Rob! Longest I've waited for a video. I use this bridge almost everyday and the dangers are as real as they get. I really hope they add a new bridge for the next generation.
We've got Drawbridges on a few of the I-90/94 and I-290 feeders in Chicago and they create a nightmare. Couldn't imagine having a Lift or Drawbridge in the middle of the main highway itself.
We have a very cool lift bridge in the Keweenaw in Michigan. It has 3 heights, and is a double decker. It’s got a road on top and then what used to be both a railroad track and road on the bottom. At its normal height. Small boats can go under it, and cars can drive on it. When big ships come through, the bridge moves up and when the railroad was active, if a train came through, the bridge would lower, letting cars drive on the top road section, and letting a train cross below them. Now, it still goes up sometimes, and in the winter, it is always lowered, with the bottom section being a snowmobile path
Fun fact, both Washington and Oregon began planning a new bridge like a decade ago. The two states spent something like $250 million on a planning commission only to scrap the entire project. So we'll be stuck with this old clunker for a few more decades at least.
@@TrickiVicBB71 Yep, and this video alerted me to the irony that the original bridge cost $150 million less than the planning stages of the new bridge. And this is adjusted for inflation!
They have wasted a lot more than that arguing over replacing it. We could have built a replacement by now if they process to construct things here didn't have comities and planning commissions squandering funds just talking for the last decade
They should just put the tolls back in, electronic ones this time. That way people who don't really have a good reason to cross don't feel compelled to create extra traffic. Also helps pay for the maintenance and eventual reconstruction of the bridge.
Then leave two lanes and charge a toll for passenger vehicles, and make the other two lanes for buses and trucks, and the middle two shared between regional rail and light rail
It has been proposed, multiple times, and you would not believe the screams of outrage from people in both cities, each claiming that it was a ploy by the other to rip them off. In fact, it's been used as a smear tactic in almost every Vancouver election for the past twenty years, where some politician will accuse his opponent of being in favor of putting tolls back on the bridge ( the fiend!! ).
its so weird you can sit in traffic for hours going north on i5 out of portland and as soon as you hit the bridge on the washington side it just clears up..
We’ve got an ancient on ramp problem here in CT along the Merritt and Wilbur Cross parkways. Love those roads but damn they are hard to get on & sometime it’s a little scary!
Living in the Metro my entire life, this is my least favorite bridge to drive across. Especially going from I-5 N to WA14 East is very nerve wracking. But do like its shape design. I can only hope our new bridge choice isn’t some drab slab of concrete like I-205. It should be nice to look at, easy to use, and I’m reaching here but hopefully not to much to make 😂
Yes! I have not taken that offramp from I-5 nb to WA14 eb often, but I remember it being terrifying, and this video makes me realize why that was. I agree that if we DO ever get a new bridge that it should be aesthetically interesting. The Glenn Jackson Bridge is boring AND it is dangerous. Wasn't it a couple years ago during a big snow and ice event that a car went off the side because plows had piled snow up in a way that basically created a ramp up and over? I think I read that the poor driver was trying to get to or from work because he could not stay home in a storm or something. I don't think it is nearly as likely for someone to go up and over the side of the I-5 bridge, so it has that going for it. :-o
12 years ago when I lived in Portland, this bridge replacement project was the most discussed in Oregon and Washington State. There will never be a replacement until it collapses into the Columbia River. Besides there has almost always been a bypass which is wide, clean and newer about 6 miles away. So the replacement is a waste of money overall.
I used to live in Vancouver, Washington had to cross the bridge almost daily! I don't miss that commute! Thanks for posting this video. Mr. Lovejoy, think of the Simpsons! Lots of Portland references found in Portland! @RoadGuyRob you need to do a video on the Astoria-Megler Bridge at the mouth of the Columbia River that connects Astoria, Oregon to Megler, Washington (Long Beach is very close too).
I used to cross that bridge daily and he is right... it sucked big time. Traffic is backed up daily from 6am to 6pm and there is never a day without an accident messing stuff up.
You missed the opportunity to mention it was Washington's governor who nixxed the plan for a replacement a decade ago. Granted there were numerous opposition parties, but it was that withdrawal of support that killed it
3:05 the back left tower will shear from the mid section, travel horizontally a couple of feet, then rotate downwards, whereas the other towers on the right will just crumble downward... (and now we know Flanders's pastor's name origin is from Boston)
I know they are concerned with the soil around the pilings , but I'm wondering if any of the wood piles go down to bedrock or are they all just friction piles? Couldn't tell from diagram shown in the video. Any foundation/soils engineers out there who would know?
Check out the Astoria-Megler Bridge which also spans the lower Columbia River, 14 miles (23 km) from the mouth, at the Pacific Ocean. The bridge is four miles (6.5 km) in length and has a clearance of 196 feet (60 m) over the shipping channel, at high tide. Since most of the northern portion of the bridge is over shallow, non-navigable water, it is low to the water. (Wikipedia)
Most of the freeway bridges around here are tall enough for that. This one is just from far enough in the past that there wasn't as much of an issue with bridge closings. SR 520 just outside of Seattle also has a design that allows it to be opened and closed, it's one of the dumber designs as there's a literal one boat that's large enough to require it and there's basically no reason for it to be in the lake. IIRC, the guy only takes it through there like once a year. One of the issues with that can be that you have to build much higher and if you haven't got the banks to do it, then you have to build a much larger and longer bridge to get the necessary height. And if you haven't got the traffic to justify it, then it's a lot of expense for nothing. I do expect that when it is rebuilt that it will be built in a way that eliminates the need for it to ever be shutdown like that. Although, I think it does get shut for windstorms occasionally.
Theres a bride in buffalo I have walked and driven across thats exactly like that lifting section. Its a regular street with low traffic and it still feels like I'm walking too close to the cars. The middle of the bridge is a steel mesh instead of a normal road surface, so you can see straight down to the river below.
It's crazy that in this day and age we have a draw bridge in an interstate. Then again both Oregon and Washington highway designs are behind the times compared to the rest of the country. I often wonder if WSDOT even employs traffic engineers.
I'm not saying that the roads around Portland won't make you assume that people had no sense during the city's design, cause yeah. But this lift, like many thoughout the US, are because of federal shipping laws. The water traffic has priority over road traffic due to some of those laws. So if they want to go through on this specific river they get to go & the road waits. In this day & age it seems like it's time for a rewrite, but sadly the federal government doesn't much listen.
With the way the roads are designed in Portland, I can guarantee you there are no engineers working at ODOT. I'm pretty sure most of them never even graduated grade 6, never mind engineering school
Reminds me of the Stickel Bridge in New Jersey on I-280, another drawbridge that was grandfathered into the interstate system. It’s also right at an interchange with Route 21 and a NJ Transit train station in an urban area so the whole area is a mess of tight ramps, even with a bunch of bridge rehab and design work to make things a little bit better. I think one of the on-ramps to I-280 even used to have a stop sign instead adequate space for a merge lane.
@@gorak9000 It's not that the roads were necessarily designed like this. It's because of growth and a lack of rebuilding. Portland is working on this and has improved a lot of interchanges over the years while also putting in more pedestrian paths. This stuff takes time and portland grew very, very quickly which means we wound up with really poorly designed merges and interchanges.
@@CRneu I've been in Portland almost 10 years now, and I haven't seen anything change at all, never mind improve. All the major interchanges are poorly designed, with too many ramps all in the same place, and everyone coming in from the ramp wants to be on the far left, and everyone on the road wants to merge right into the lanes that start where the ramp is. Must've been designed by a psychotic 6 year old. None of it makes any sense, nor has any of it changed. All they've done is repave some sections at most. Look at the nightmare that is 26 going into 405 - every day the traffic comes to an absolute standstill because both 26 to 405 N and 26 to 405 S are the worst designed interchanges I've seen anywhere. And don't even get me started about all the lanes on 405 that just cease to exist where more lanes are needed, or there are lanes where they are not needed that have no traffic in them (or maybe there's no traffic there because they end abruptly and don't continue through). Then there are roads like Naito Parkway south of 405 that are large roads, that have almost zero traffic on it at any time of the day!! I'd be ashamed to be associated with anything to do with "planning" there. Generally I just don't go to Portland proper because the roads suck, and then parking downtown sucks, and it's not worth the frustration.
Rob, Maybe you could do a video on why the Golden Gate Bridge never got a lower deck, even though it was built to handle one. The framework is there---just no roadbed.
The fact he actually decided to walk across the bridge shows true dedication. I've biked across a whopping once and will never again because of the absolute misery it was. Loud enough to give you hearing damage, the last section into vancouver is super steep, and the "walkways" (if you can even call those afterthoughts that) arent even 3 feet wide
I walked onto the bridge from Jantzen Beach, and realizing how much more of a walk it was going to be across the river was enough for me to decide to take some pictures and turn back.
I did it twice ( once each direction) when there was breeze running down the river and it felt like I was going to be tossed over the barriers.
Anyone not in a car is a second-class citizen
And isn't just so wonderful that the current CRC, the IBR Program will have to make the bridge approaches at least a solid mile long before the actual bridge itself at a insane 4 degrees? God I just love that so much, you know? Just so much logic and common sense has gone into this current iteration of the CRC plans.
Oh and for the record, that 4 degree angle? That's tied for the steep angle of any bridge in the nation with the new bridge across Tampa Bay. Now, imagine all that oil slick, gas, road/engine soot, rain and snow/ice mixing on those approaches. Yeah. $6B spent on PR & "Outreach" by the IBR so far for... that. Burn our tax money, baby!
You think that's bad? You should try riding across the Columbia on the Astoria bridge. The "walkway" is maybe 18 inches wide. I'm not even sure if it was intended as a walkway. No real shoulder. Great fun in a gusty windstorm, when cars are whizzing past you about a foot away. The Interstate Bridge, by comparison, is a bicyclist's pardise.
I have lived in Vancouver for 61 of my 69 years, long enough to recall the bridge toll booths - and plenty of other bridge stories. For 30 years I was a reporter at The Columbian in Vancouver, covering primarily transportation. As our offices were darn near within spitting distance, anything newsworthy bridge-wise was easy to cover.
Some trivia from the past:
One hot summer evening in the 1990s the bridge was lifted for river traffic. Problem was, all that steel had expanded in the heat and one of the lift spans would not seat properly. Traffic was snarled for hours until Portland Fire Bureau boats could reach the scene and cool the steel with river water. The expansion joints were later modified to prevent a reoccurrence. Unseen by the bridgetender crew, a lone pedestrian was walking across the lift span when all this happened and he, like the traffic, was stalled for hours, albeit with a nice view of sunset from his high vantage point. No, he faced no punishment.
For decades the bridge has had a chronic problem with hundreds, if not thousands, of starlings that roost all over what surely must be one of the best places on the planet to build a nest. There’s no upside for humans, though, as the birds shit all over the place, including beneath the sheet metal covers that are supposed to protect the huge trunnions, or pulleys, that are part of the lift spans. From time to time crews have to pressure wash all that crap off the trunnions and lift cables, a job which, no surprise, requires a nighttime closure. In the 1990s the Oregon Department of Transportation attempted to rid the bridge of the birds by periodically firing an air cannon like those used in orchards. It worked - for a few seconds. The birds flew off at the sound of the cannon, and soon learned they could promptly return.
One nice summer day in that era a fellow in a sailboat reasoned that he could sail under the lift span with his too-tall mast because the boat was heeled over in the wind. What he didn’t anticipate was that, you know, there’s no wind under a bridge of that size. The boat righted itself in the gap between the bridge’s twin lift spans. But because he had attempted his maneuver during the period where no lifts are permitted, in order to reduce rush-hour traffic jams, he had to wait it out. This allowed plenty of time for a reporter (me) and photographer to memorialize his brilliant sailsmanship in the next day’s paper.
Also in that decade or thereabouts a truck spilled an enormous quantity of paint in the northbound lanes near the bridge entrance. The paint obliterated lane markings, and officials ordered more pressure washing, and thus more shutdowns, to blast away much of the paint.
In the late 1990s a large truck carrying a load of Lima beans managed to dump its cargo in the northbound lanes. Of course it was during rush hour. The newspaper’s photo the next day carried a caption with a headline (we call them overlines) that read, “Another reason to hate Lima beans.”
A couple other notes: Rob notes that, given its age, the bridge is in decent shape. ODOT engineers, wisely realizing that the process of replacing the damn thing could go on for centuries, have proceeded with projects that have included repainting the bridge, a project that involved wrapping - no kidding - the entire structure in plastic so it could be sandblasted and painted without allowing lead to fall into the river.
Showing an ocean-going freighter as an example of “ships” that cause bridge lifts is an exaggeration. The vast majority of lifts don’t require anywhere near the full height of the lift spans’ travel, and freighters of that size have nowhere to dock upriver. Not to mention the fact that the river is not dredged upriver of the bridge to a depth sufficient for large vessels. Nevertheless, as the vid shows, interrupting that much traffic with even a “quick” lift causes a rambo jambo every time.
This is great! I've driven over the bridge countless times in my youth and never thought much of it until this video and your stories!
@@kc7affThank you! A couple more: Long before the unsuccessful air cannon attempt to scare away the starlings, employees in the bridgetender’s office - a steel box suspended between the twin lift spans - tried to deal with the birds. I interviewed one fellow - he was a riot - who detailed his fruitless attempts with a charming sense of humor. One day he decided that a bag of rubber snakes from a dime store would be just the thing. Snakes in hand, he walked across the top chord of one lift span, glueing the snakes to the steel plate as he went. (Think about that for a second: He is strolling across a steel pathway just a few feet wide, without railings, while the entire thing shakes, rattles and rolls from the traffic below.) Before he got to the end of the span, “I looked back and the birds were pulling those snakes off.”
This is a bit that has always fascinated me, but requires some mechanical engineering thought. The spans are raised by surprisingly small motors that wind up bundles of lift cables that go all the way from the roadway to the tops of those big towers. At the tops of the towers, and easily seen in any photo, are enormous concrete blocks, one at each tower. Encased in steel framework and attached to the cables, they are the counterweights. Each pair weighs roughly that of each lift span. (Without counterweights it would take enormous power to lift the spans.) So far, so good. But if you look at 8:27 in the video and freeze the frame, objects can be seen on the top of the counterweight on the right. Those are stacks of smaller concrete blocks. Why? When the span is repaved, the blocks must be added to accommodate the additional weight of new pavement (or any other modifications that add significant weight.) But over time the asphalt wears away, and the blocks must be removed - there’s another traffic-choking nighttime span lift -- to equalize the weight of the counterweights and lift spans. I have long forgotten the amount, but the permitted weight imbalance is no doubt just a few tons. Geeky stuff, that is. Tell that at your next party and watch the guests move on.
Thank you for the info, Eugene guy here and have always wondered about that bridge and its history.
Thank you for your fascinating recollections!
Thanks for the memories! I had forgotten several of these until your recap. I remember one time in the 90’s a boat got stuck under the bridge, causing all southbound traffic to absolutely stop for the bulk of the work day. i can’t recall the whole thing but I do recall being very late for a meeting. Fortunately, I did have a “mobile” phone (as they were called then) and was able to let my boss know I would be late. I only even made it to the meeting because someone was able to help several of us back up enough to maneuver to the exit so I could take the road all the way around to I-205. I lived in Orchards at that time and was frustrated that I hadn’t taken 205 to begin with, that morning. But my meeting was in Tigard, so I had thought I-5 would be better.
I live and work south of portland now. I love the old bridge for the memories of childhood and my youth, but that’s about it!
As a truck driver I actually liked that bridge the handful times I crossed it. Its not your run-of-the-mill concrete Interstate bridge, it actually has character. Breaks up the dull driving on most Interstates
This bridge sucks as a trucker. Theres a really great truck stop in Portland called the Jubitz, its the the only place to stop for like 3 hours if you're going north/south through Portland/Vancouver and it has more parking than any of the other truck stops nearby on that corridor. The problem is that its on the last exit on the Portland side. This means that theres an added concentration of trucks having to go through that weird double loop interchange. During rush hour it would sometimes take 30-45 minutes to get from Jubitz back on to I5.
3 hours might be an exaggeration or you might be relying on garmin holding that steering wheel.
@@chublezduring rush hour with a accident pretty plausible scenario.
Thank you Rob for blessing our Friday with this gem. appreciate all the work you put into the videos keep it up man
Ditto!
Will do! Thank you
When driving along I-5, I've taken to crossing the bridge in Longview instead to avoid 5/205 traffic between Portland and the river. Fun fact: I know how to get between Seattle and Eugene without using I-5 at all, knowledge that does come in handy more often than you'd think. It doesn't save me any time per se, but I get the satisfaction of constantly being moving instead of stop and go traffic.
I can definitely appreciate that. When I go to work, I take a freeway which is slightly out of my way. By doing so I avoid about 7 stop lights. The time is about the same, but I really hate stop and go traffic, so it's worth it.
@@LoveClassicMusic0205 ironically I go to work often by driving through an airport. While there are a few traffic lights, it’s less annoying than the stop and go traffic if I take the freeway which is usually very congested when I go in.
That bridge at Longview is nearly a hundred years old, is over capacity, and needs to be replaced, too.
@@jonjohnson3027 It is still a good lookin bridge for how old it is. Fun to cross too with it being so high up. Probably a lot less fun to be stuck on every day in traffic though.
Oregon side at least you take Hwy 30 to 47 to 99 and that'll take most the way if not all the way to Eugene
TH-camrs named Rob are just fun. Dude you're literally just Rob Wolchek, same show style energy, but an engineer and not a journalist
This Rob’s an engineer too!
Road Guy Rob is both!
Rob Dahm
I think out1739 was trying to say Road Guy was the engineer and Wolcheck was the journalist!
I was thinking the same thing. No Hall of Shame, though.
Used to pedal that bridge every morning and night for 6 years. I'm honestly surprised that it hasn't collapsed yet.
Thanks for this very well thought out and researched report. As a bridge guy who starts his career working with a PHD who invested North Ridge, this seriously saddens me
Agreed, but one detail was missed, presumably for time's sake: the southbound on-ramp on Vancouver's side. It's so bad the city has LED warnings for it
@@Lysergic_Yeah, it's similar to the Jantzen Beach one. But by the time I walked back the other side, it was too dark. So, I used the Jantzen footage.
@@RoadGuyRob that makes sense. I bet if Hayden island/jantzen beach wasn't such a grey-area for the two cities then both sides would have the LED light warnings. Fun fact, when I lived in the area I learned that in the past, both Vancouver and Portland liked to drop off the homeless on that island, since it's kind of a no-mans land despite being on Oregon's side
I love those old bridges. Lots of memories, and love the classic design and history. But its very clear even to me that they need to be replaced. I can only hope we end up with something that will work well.
Been following the details of this bridge and driven over it enough to give some insight in addition to what is said in this video:
You forgot one very important detail, they can only build so high. The PDX airport (and Fort Vancouver's airport) flies right over the bridge so there is an imposed height limit by the FAA. If they could build as high as they want to heart's content they would but they need to both make it high enough in terms of boat clearance but not high enough that it becomes a hazard for planes putting it into a predicament.
The middle of the bridge's curvature is fine for most boats for height so they don't need to operate the drawbridge for them and they can continue on their merry way during peak hours whereas the rail swing bridge upriver isn't.
You got the length of it correct, it is a very long beast you have to tackle and it severely restricts and discourages multi-modal transport options, the southern half of the bridge only has one sidewalk on the SE side. It is close to a mile of straight walking to cross the bridge on foot and that is just for the bridge section. You are correct that any redesign really needs to take cycling transportation into account it is horrible.
Downtown Vancouver just on the other side of the bridge is seeing a major boom right now whereas Jantzen Beach(the island in-between), which used to be booming back when this bridge was built, and North Portland are not as favorable to be in at this current time.
I'd say the media is underestimating just how much the "hill" of the bridge slows down cars. It slows down the speed of the cars from 50mph to 40mph considering the amount of truckers on it, I'd say is the main cause of the traffic jams on the bridge.
I believe it was the Vancouver airfield that mainly constrained the height of the proposed bridge, to which Portland's attitude was "to hell with the Vancouver airfield", but it seemed to have enough clout that this remained a prerequisite to a project that could go forward.
It sounds like a tunnel would be a better fit then, since it wouldn't get in the way of boats or planes.
@@Yay295due to the amount of space available the grading would be dangerously steep for trucks & the cost would be double. It has been considered
What slows down traffic more is the immediate on and off-ramps. Going southbound drivers are forced to cut off those who are going onto the bridge, and anyone merging for jantzen beach needs to merge over for the off-ramp right where the metal ends, especially any freight. The right lane is used more like a merging/on-off-ramp lane, but since its a part of normal traffic as well its just a big clusterfuck that leaves the new drivers crying with theri hazards on
@@spafon7799you mean the FAA? Which sets the regulations about airspace around all airports & airfields within the US?
There's a similar bridge like this in the UK on the isle of Sheppy, entirely made out of concrete, but they can't remove it since it's a listed building now, so they built a huge new bridge over the top of it.
There is one additional issue that is forgotten in this video. The Portland International Airport sits right in between the I-5 and I-205 bridges. Runways 10R and 10L flight lines are right where the bridge is, so there is a height restriction on moving the I-5 bridge upward.
The only way a new bridge will be built is when this bridge crumbles and collapses into the Columbia River.
Tolls are planned to be implemented on the existing Interstate 5 (I-5) bridge between Oregon and Washington in early 2026 to help pay for the construction of a new span across the Columbia River. The tolls will also help fund the ongoing maintenance and operations of the bridge
@@GrumpyWolfTech tolls were canceled earlier this year. they violate state constitution and the public in oregon (rightfully) was/is not having it.
And combined with no one wanting a lift span and the coast guard's requirement for a minimum height for river traffic it gets dicey
Sounds like it's time to move the airport to some place that doesn't have height issues. It's not like PDX is a gem of an airport anyways. And, they might just move it out of the turbulance from the gorge.
@@DavidWilliams-hf8sc are you out of your mind? its not only one of the best airports in the country, regularly voted to be the best, they just remodeled the main terminal into a damn palace....
i love how excited he sounds about the bridge being supported on logs and unsafe
I regularly watch this channel it’s funny to see home for me on here. I myself have sat in hundreds of traffic jams and have recently gotten into a crash on this bridge. A lot of the points you covered with the on ramps I never realized was the problem. Not sure they will come up with a solution in my lifetime.
And it gets messier with the Delta Park to Rose Quarter section of I-5 needing widening, but there is no local support for it.
I'd really love to see the MAX make it across a new freeway bridge
@@RoadGuyRob Quite frankly i5 at the rose quarter area doesn't need to be widened. And I'm no anti-car guy or NIMBY, but ODOT already confirmed traffic will still suck at the section anyway, simply put - the developers at the time didn't know what they were doing and there's just too many entrances and exits to close together in that area to the point that making more lanes will just make that process worse. They need to rethink where their exits & entrances are going to be at.
@@RoadGuyRob
I really wish that folks in Vancouver hadn't killed Portland's intention to run the MAX into Vancouver back when I was in high school. Alas, I wasn't voting age yet.
For context, I grew up in Vancouver and currently live in Portland.
My buddy and I walked across that bridge. It's no joke with the amount of debris, noise, and exhaust you are punished with! The sheer volume of traffic on those spans clearly shows the winning argument for a new bridge not to mention the very outdated engineering its constructed with.
But dollars are usually spent in a reactive mindset opposed to a proactive one. So when will the I-5 bridge be replaced? Probably when some or all of it unfortunately fails.
My guess is when Seattle feels the pinch of no more I-5 Washington will come bitching and moaning to Oregon and then try to ditch at the last second again.
I loved the Jammin' 95.5 ident!
It's (was) Portland's Party Station!
I traveled over this bridge everyday from 1978-1987! When visiting afew years ago, my Wife wanted to walk across! It IS quite scary!
US 195 onto I-90 going east in Spokane WA has the exact same problem with no merging area right onto a bridge and it is also the most crash prone interchange in our area.
That merge lane is just a suicide run for people coming up 195.
@@acrandal they could make it alot safer if they closed the right lane on I-90 and had the on-ramp enter the freeway as the new right lane. Eventually when they replace the bridge it needs to be 4 lanes going east, but that is really expensive so who knows when that will happen. The whole downtown viaduct has alot of really old and poorly designed on-ramps and off-ramps.
That looks crazy (looking on Google Maps)
@@RoadGuyRob it's only going to keep getting worse too, the Latah Valley neighborhood that US 195 runs through keeps growing like crazy. I think it has doubled in population since 2005 or something like that.
@@tylerferguson3707 That’s the most sensible short-term solution. It would back things up on 90 a bit with that merge, but it’d be a lot safer and not too dissimilar to the current merge with the ramp. Plus, fewer collisions does make traffic flow better overall, let alone the added safety to life and limb.
9:20 you want to see short merge lanes, check out the 110 in Pasadena, CA
I love that freeway!
Another great video! I grew up in the Portland area in the 80's...traffic on that bridge is CRAZY.
I grew up there in the 90s and I remember when the light rail was just one line (Blue Line) that just ran through downtown and through the suburbs. Now there's at least four or five more that I saw when I last visited, the second being the Red Line that runs to and from PDX. Traffic all over that region can be hella crazy from what I had seen!
I drove across that thing a few times when I was in Vancouver/Portland in 2022 and I HATED it. I'm amazed you Washingtonians and Oregonians put up with that thing.
I lived in Oregon for 1993-2015, I crossed the bridge about 20 times a week all different hours, never was stopped for River traffic.
You got out before the state went completely crazy xD
Was going to say you left the best time, it all went down hill after 2015.
OH DAMN! Them two ex military boats moored at the old red lion sank??those had been sitting there for so long, when I left 5 yrs ago they still looked to be in good shape.
yeah the ex-Sakarissa tugboat and ex-Alert USCG Cutter sank back in 2019, mostly due to homeless vandalism. They have both since been salvaged raised by the Coast Guard, and have been scapped over in Vancouver. This footage must be from before 2020. Maybe he has been editing it for quite some time. This video was released in August 2024
10:38 It's worth noting that the original interstate bridge actually had streetcar tracks. It had 4 lanes, but 2 of those lanes were for automobiles, while the other two were for streetcars. By the 1950s, the 9-foot wide lanes were extremely outdated, as newer cars, trucks, and buses were a lot wider than the vehicles of the 1917 and barely fit in these narrow lanes. As a result, they reduced the bridge from 4 lanes to 3. The new bridge also had 3 lanes, for a total of 6. However, without streetcar tracks, the new bridge actually had a lower total capacity compared to the old bridge (as streetcars can carry far more people per hour per direction). The new bridge will likely have two tracks as well for the MAX light rail.
You mean tolls can be removed???
Yes, some toll roads went toll free like the Coronado Bridge in San Diego, which went toll free in 2002. Some projects collect tolls just to help pay off a project and make them toll free when the project pays off the lenders. Some tolls stay permeant to discourage high traffic into an area and they can often be a source of revenue to make up for cheeper registration costs, which seems to be the case for the east coast.
Some road tolls border on criminal extortion. On the East Coast, lawsuits are flying as tolls have run amok like abused cash cows.
@@AmtrakandAWVRFanSome tolls will remain for decades because private companies build them, and for every upgrade, they push back the date (by years) at which ownership of the motorway goes back to the government
georgia 400 removed tolls when the entire cost of the highway was paid
Your style and detail make these videos so fun to watch. Keep it up Rob!!
Will do!
Neat fact about the bridge, the newer southbound span is wider than the older northbound one, trucks and busses end up right about mirror-to-mirror with eachother going northbound. It's not something you might notice unless you're driving something a bit wider than your regular car. Also as a truck driver if my destination isn't on the west side of Portland or Vancouver I'm taking 205, much more capacity for traffic and fewer speed robbing hills
Trucker here know exactly what you're saying , ✌️.
So cool to see all those old photos and footage. Great video!
Thanks for covering this one! I was a resident for 20 years. Now happily avoiding bridge congestion in beautiful Phoenix, AZ. Catch me on the loops!
He's got a real fun video on the Arizona highway history if you haven't seen it yet!
It's so pretty, and so impressive it's held up so well to conditions and demands it wasn't intended for. Let that poor bridge rest.
So kill it with a recking ball?
10 years ago me and some buddies used to sneak onto the lift before it raised. Only works on weekend nights, but it is a view to behold and was such a fun experience
It's not just this bridge. I suspect very few other bridges in Oregon, Washington and British Columbia would survive a major earthquake.
It honestly chills me to the bone thinking how bad a 9.0 earthquake would be for that region. Fingers crossed geology decides to wait a few thousand years.
Portland is working on this. They're going to be closing Burnside bridge for several years to replace it for seismic reasons. The time span is because they have to stop construction during salmon migration periods, as the work disturbs the riverbed quite a lot. The current Burnside bridge cannot be "upgraded" and has to be completely replaced.
@@CRneu helped for a while with the Abernathy project they got going and that's the same reason that one is taking so long. Granted for that one it's not a whole new bridge they're going to split it down the middle and spread the travel lanes to fit more but still
A 9.0 would flood so many coastal areas with tsunamis, so many bridges and buildings would collapse so much developed land would liquefy into sinkholes or would slide away, water and sewer mains would break and burst, and gas pipelines would leak and ignite that many of the survivors would envy the dead. A 9.0 would cause such widespread destruction and devastation that it wouldn’t be far fetched that millions of people would decide to just leave the region for good. Yikes.
@@CRneuWhat about the Steel Bridge? That thing has always seemed to me to be about to collapse at any moment.
I lived in Vancouver as a kid until 86 and this bridge was terrifying.
I really hope when the rebuild the bridge they have the foresight to expand Portland’s max light rail across to Vancouver, it would greatly help commuters in Vancouver and link the two cities with frequent trains
Won’t happen because Portland’s not willing to split the revenue even though the expect Vancouver to pay for the upkeep of the lightrail system. We would get the bills and they’d get the income.
Bingo!! Bojacks blog - if it’s still online - covered the endless layers upon layers of corruption in ptown 🤮🤮🤮
I left !
@@NoelleTakestheSky well, maybe that's a factor, but theres a lot of "that'll let the portland criminals come up to vancouver" nimbyism, and Washington not wanting to pay any appreciable amount towards the bridge because all the politics happen on the other side of the state
That ain't going to happen. Three 3 Clark County/Vancouver has voted down proposals to extend "crime rail" across the river.
That ain't going to happen. Three times Clark County/Vancouver has voted down proposals to extend "crime rail" across the river.
I too recall the toll booths, and when the project was paid off, they took them out. Unusual behavior for a government entity.
VERY unusual indeed. “Keep you money now, citizens! We no longer have need of it!” said the government once in history, as it seems.
I've driven this so many times... I always wondered why it was so f'd. Very well done explanation
As a bicyclist, it is very creepy riding on those narrow outside paths. Your seat is just about at the railing height and it’s just barely wide enough. It definitely feels possible that if you accidentally bump the railing with your handle bar, you could be launched over the edge and into the river.
sad to see the southbound on-ramp didn't get any attention. Imagine an on-ramp even shorter than the northbound side shown, with no merge lane, just traffic shooting onto the freeway. There are multiple construction LED signs/billboards warning drivers during the day to merge left to avoid the on-ramp
not to mention, probably 50 ft. before it there's another on-ramp lol
Why don't they just close the on ramps immediately adjacent to the bridge lol
@@jacobkorducki6940 the northbound one is the only on ramp for Hayden island. Southbound I have no clue lol though one of the two is for a freeway
@@jacobkorducki6940 On the north bank of the river is WA State Route 14, an east/west freeway. It has a loop around ramp onto southbound I-5 to get over the river. It’s too important of a connector to be simply dismantled or closed.
Nice! In the Netherlands, we have 18 movable bridges in the freeway system, which I think is more than any other country, even though it's a small country.
Those are huge bottlenecks too though
In Michigan we used to have one moveable bridge in our freeway system, until we replaced it with a huge tall double span concrete bridge (concrete so it won’t rust!) that took about a decade to build. Now the only place in Michigan where you have to stop on a freeway is at the border crossings to Canada. Yay!
Edit: I forgot, we have one freeway toll bridge connecting the two peninsulas, and you have to stop to pay the stupid toll.
@@ethanlamoureux5306 You won't expect the government to subsidize the road with taxpayer money do you?
Dutch infrastructure just makes it look easy. You guys literally dried up the ocean to make more land.
Well dutch are known for being on the water.
biggest problem with the bridge is that hundreds of thousands of people who live in Vancouver work in Portland. So every morning, half of Vancouver has to cross the bridge basically at the same time, and every evening head back home at rush hour. A trip that takes 20 minutes at 3am can take hours at 8am.
EXACTLY, and they are refusing to pay ANYTHING towards the project. They don't want the toll, yet they eff up Portland roads. Vantuckians are a stupid bunch
Yet they are the ones that prevent a new bridge bc they don't want max service b/c it'll bring homeless crime. Like I'm in The Couv once a week and their is no shortage of homeless or methheads.
I immediately recognized the bridge before I saw you wrote it on the thumbnail. That bridge is a favorite of mine, but I know it sucks in general.
I never thought that I would watch shows about roads and signs etc. But you make it fun and interesting and educational. Keep up the good work
Glad you enjoy it!
It's a lot of work. But worth it if you like it
@@RoadGuyRob and if you get tired of making videos about road work, you could probably expand. You're really good into different fields
I cross this bridge every other day in an 18 wheeler. Absolute thrill lol
i live 20 min away from that bridge it needs dire replacement, if i knew if you were coming to town i would of loved to meet you
Transportation, urban planning, how we got here, fair & balanced. Love your videos.
It's interesting how this channel is basically the complete opposite of the anti-car public transit channels
I try to be practical.
Cars are not a one-size solution for all our problems. And I'm excited to see new ideas to make cities more walkable and transit friendly.
I also don't hate cars. Cars will always be a big component of North American life.
@@RoadGuyRob That’s a very reasonable and practical way of looking at it.
@@RoadGuyRob Agreed. I think nearly everyone will agree that US cities have failed terribly in building cheap, easy transit solutions like downtown light rail and that streets should not be highways, as they are in many parts of the country (stroads). But being anti-car is just impractical
no one is actually anti-car. they just don't feel the need to say "this doesn't apply to rural areas" every 5 seconds, and why should they
@@blitzn00dle50 That is certainly not the case. There are many urban planners and many TH-camrs who are very publicly anti-car
This is awesome!
I've walked over that bridge to commute many times.
(Not many people do that)
It’s crazy I live near Portland and take that bridge a lot to get into Vancouver
I thought that Canada has an Vancouver
@@haruhisuzumiya6650they both do, but I have no idea why 😅
@@sendtothisone Captain George Vancouver sailed through the region in 1792 on an exploratory expedition. It would make sense that the founders of the forts and posts which became cities would name their settlements after the illustrious navigator. Vancouver, WA and Vancouver, British Columbia are at least 300 miles apart. Speaking of Columbia, you have any idea how many different Columbias there are around the New World, all copying each other in naming themselves after Christopher Columbus? A ton. No surprise that there are a plurality of Vancouvers.
Btw, it was the Washington State side of the waterway that killed the new "Columbia River Crossing" in 2013 (after 8 or 9 years of planning and dealing amongst all the stakeholders). You see, the US Dept of Transportation wouldn't provide the massive chunk of funding they were offering for the project if it didn't include light rail mass transit. And a majority of Vancouver residents were adamant that they didn't want their city connected to Portland's already existing light rail system (new, better auto bridge be damned). Then, Washington's state senate 'pulled the plug' on the thing because it would cost more than they wanted to spend. I bring this up because it's very interesting to find out (from this vid! Thanks, Rob!), when the 1917 incarnation of the present bridge was being planned, Washington State also backed out of the deal and the bridge became reality then only because of Oregon stepping up to the plate. History repeats itself. This time, though, it doesn't seem like Oregon taking on the project solo is a good bet!
A similar coin flip legend exists for St. Petersburg, Florida. It was almost named Detroit instead.
Yikes. :D
Imagine, we could have had a Detroit, Florida, WILD 🤯
@@ScottWallace5 Detroit, Florida: the ancestral breeding grounds of Florida Man!
Once had to make the walk across this bridge because the local CTran busses stopped running all the way to the expo center MAX station. Made the mistake of it also being during the dead of winter at nighttime, so cudos to you for doing it during a pretty day. The fact Vancouver turned down the MAX extension is just an absolute blindsighted mistake that hurts all of the Portland metro, as well as my car free sanity.
It wasn't blind-sighted, it was willful malfeasance in the name of "freedumb", as right-wing local and State legislators agitated that the CRC's inclusion of light rail was at least unnecessary, and at worst Portland forcing Vancouver/Clark County/Washington state to pay for something they claimed nobody would use.
People and attitudes like that are why I call Clark County "Far Northwest Mississippi".
It's appalling to see that in no US infrastructure project the maintenance and needed new construction at the end of planned life is taken into account and money allocated to it. It never works like that.
They always use it until it runs down and wears out and then the financing wars begin again.
It repeats always again and again.
Also the recent cost bloat that's affecting mega construction projects in all English-speaking countries is making it unaffordable for us to build or replace anything we need
@@frafraplanner9277 In Asia, and most of Europe - you do a due plan. X Years. Cost Y. All stakeholders agree on cost Y (and know itr will be Y + 50%). Then construction begins. At the end it cost 3*Y but it is done.
In the US: It will costr Y - but we give you 1/10 Y of funding. Begin! Oh money is out and majorities in politics changed. New fight for the next 1/10 of Y. Construction halting for months and years.
Lawmakers always wanting to exerce their power and wanting to say NO toi a project even if it has began construction years ago.
Prime examples: California HSR, NYC 2nd Ave subway.
But also many local street projects.
@@PascalGienger Exactly!
I live in Vancouver and we need a new bridge for I-5. Lately, the bridge has been cracking and the governors are "trying to rebuild the bridge." Yeah right
I know that bridge - we used to go to Portland to shop a lot (I live in the other Vancouver, north of the border) because well, no taxes, and have memories about it. I also remember travelling a bit too much ont he bridge one night because Jantzen Beach used to have a nice shopping area and it was just south of the state border and we kept getting confused and ended up going onto the bridge and turning around several times.Used to stay in Vancouver (WA) as it was routinely cheaper than go over the bridge to Portland.
6:13 "Hate to see someone take a wheelchair down that"😂
I saw you filming this. Wish I stopped to say hello.
So happy to learn about a bridge ive never been over, love your enthusiasm i watch every video
A bit surprised that you covered everything up to the CRC, but *not* the ongoing IBRP (CRC 2.0). Topic for a future Part 2 video?
My original research would've turned into a 30+ minute video.
Better to get Part 1 out and make more video(s) later on
You should do a video on the Sound Transit light rail project on the I90 floating bridge over Lake Washington between Seattle and Bellevue.
It’s cutting edge engineering to make it work! First ever rail on a floating bridge in the world!
It is finally here Rob! Longest I've waited for a video. I use this bridge almost everyday and the dangers are as real as they get.
I really hope they add a new bridge for the next generation.
Commenting cuz TH-cam algo likes it and rob is amazing
This was a fantastic video! Learning about infrastructure is always a joy!
Never thought, I'd enjoy story about single bridge.. but after watching it I wish if it was longer. Thank you Rob as always!
What an ending, is there a part 2?!?
Yes. Eventually. Probably later this year.
We had s similar arrangement on I-75 in Michigan. The Zilwaukee Bridge fixed it.
"Rusty but Trusty" 😁😂🤣
We've got Drawbridges on a few of the I-90/94 and I-290 feeders in Chicago and they create a nightmare. Couldn't imagine having a Lift or Drawbridge in the middle of the main highway itself.
We have a very cool lift bridge in the Keweenaw in Michigan. It has 3 heights, and is a double decker. It’s got a road on top and then what used to be both a railroad track and road on the bottom. At its normal height. Small boats can go under it, and cars can drive on it. When big ships come through, the bridge moves up and when the railroad was active, if a train came through, the bridge would lower, letting cars drive on the top road section, and letting a train cross below them. Now, it still goes up sometimes, and in the winter, it is always lowered, with the bottom section being a snowmobile path
Yo. Thanks for talking about my city!
Love your videos, Rob. The best part is the commedy and the facts 😊
This video came out about the exact time I was bored. Good timing.
Fun fact, both Washington and Oregon began planning a new bridge like a decade ago. The two states spent something like $250 million on a planning commission only to scrap the entire project. So we'll be stuck with this old clunker for a few more decades at least.
That is a lot of taxpayer money spent for nothing
@@TrickiVicBB71 Yep, and this video alerted me to the irony that the original bridge cost $150 million less than the planning stages of the new bridge. And this is adjusted for inflation!
They have wasted a lot more than that arguing over replacing it. We could have built a replacement by now if they process to construct things here didn't have comities and planning commissions squandering funds just talking for the last decade
Mielki and Madore were a couple Conservatives who screwed that up and made a pretty penny doing so.
New bridge in the works within the next decade.
Thanks for coming up to the PNW!!!
They should just put the tolls back in, electronic ones this time. That way people who don't really have a good reason to cross don't feel compelled to create extra traffic. Also helps pay for the maintenance and eventual reconstruction of the bridge.
They should just not let any cars on the bridge. Make it high capacity instead with bike, bus and trams.
States cry to the federal government for the big money.
@@steemlenn8797that's a stupid idea since the primary purpose of the bridge is interstate freight
Then leave two lanes and charge a toll for passenger vehicles, and make the other two lanes for buses and trucks, and the middle two shared between regional rail and light rail
It has been proposed, multiple times, and you would not believe the screams of outrage from people in both cities, each claiming that it was a ploy by the other to rip them off. In fact, it's been used as a smear tactic in almost every Vancouver election for the past twenty years, where some politician will accuse his opponent of being in favor of putting tolls back on the bridge ( the fiend!! ).
its so weird you can sit in traffic for hours going north on i5 out of portland and as soon as you hit the bridge on the washington side it just clears up..
I drive on this bridge daily for decades, seems like there will be no new bridge in my lifetime
We’ve got an ancient on ramp problem here in CT along the Merritt and Wilbur Cross parkways.
Love those roads but damn they are hard to get on & sometime it’s a little scary!
Living in the Metro my entire life, this is my least favorite bridge to drive across. Especially going from I-5 N to WA14 East is very nerve wracking.
But do like its shape design.
I can only hope our new bridge choice isn’t some drab slab of concrete like I-205.
It should be nice to look at, easy to use, and I’m reaching here but hopefully not to much to make 😂
Yes! I have not taken that offramp from I-5 nb to WA14 eb often, but I remember it being terrifying, and this video makes me realize why that was. I agree that if we DO ever get a new bridge that it should be aesthetically interesting. The Glenn Jackson Bridge is boring AND it is dangerous. Wasn't it a couple years ago during a big snow and ice event that a car went off the side because plows had piled snow up in a way that basically created a ramp up and over? I think I read that the poor driver was trying to get to or from work because he could not stay home in a storm or something. I don't think it is nearly as likely for someone to go up and over the side of the I-5 bridge, so it has that going for it. :-o
12 years ago when I lived in Portland, this bridge replacement project was the most discussed in Oregon and Washington State. There will never be a replacement until it collapses into the Columbia River. Besides there has almost always been a bypass which is wide, clean and newer about 6 miles away. So the replacement is a waste of money overall.
There will never be an expansion as long as Portland wants Washington to pay for upkeep of the lightrail when Portland would get all the money for it.
The new bridge project suffered from "too many Kooks spoil the broth". There's a second attempt going on now.
@6:19 what is the name of the song?
Wood is actually a really good material for earthquake resistance.
Hella problems. I’ve personally never been caught when the bridge goes up, but when it’s icy trucks slide and block the entire freeway.
I used to live in Vancouver, Washington had to cross the bridge almost daily! I don't miss that commute! Thanks for posting this video. Mr. Lovejoy, think of the Simpsons! Lots of Portland references found in Portland! @RoadGuyRob you need to do a video on the Astoria-Megler Bridge at the mouth of the Columbia River that connects Astoria, Oregon to Megler, Washington (Long Beach is very close too).
I used to cross that bridge daily and he is right... it sucked big time. Traffic is backed up daily from 6am to 6pm and there is never a day without an accident messing stuff up.
I drive this bridge daily. It is a disaster waiting to happen.
Buenos Aires had this same problem and build a new taller one in the 90s and kept the elevator for local traffic
0:18 POOR NAUTIC BLUE VOLVO 850 TURBO! 😢
It always hurts more when it’s a rare vehicle
you're gettin' better. right from the beginning & all the way to the end, this video has an energy I just love!
You missed the opportunity to mention it was Washington's governor who nixxed the plan for a replacement a decade ago. Granted there were numerous opposition parties, but it was that withdrawal of support that killed it
WA legislature
3:05 the back left tower will shear from the mid section, travel horizontally a couple of feet, then rotate downwards, whereas the other towers on the right will just crumble downward...
(and now we know Flanders's pastor's name origin is from Boston)
I know they are concerned with the soil around the pilings , but I'm wondering if any of the wood piles go down to bedrock or are they all just friction piles? Couldn't tell from diagram shown in the video. Any foundation/soils engineers out there who would know?
Very well produced
God damnit you're so cool Rob
Honestly, they're probably going to wait until the bridge falls down. Then they'll replace it.
You should see the West gate bridge in Melbourne Australia, it's very tall and is tall enough to allow for cargo ships
From memory, 58 metres (190ft) clear high tide water to underside of the bridge.
Check out the Astoria-Megler Bridge which also spans the lower Columbia River, 14 miles (23 km) from the mouth, at the Pacific Ocean.
The bridge is four miles (6.5 km) in length and has a clearance of 196 feet (60 m) over the shipping channel, at high tide.
Since most of the northern portion of the bridge is over shallow, non-navigable water, it is low to the water. (Wikipedia)
Most of the freeway bridges around here are tall enough for that. This one is just from far enough in the past that there wasn't as much of an issue with bridge closings. SR 520 just outside of Seattle also has a design that allows it to be opened and closed, it's one of the dumber designs as there's a literal one boat that's large enough to require it and there's basically no reason for it to be in the lake. IIRC, the guy only takes it through there like once a year.
One of the issues with that can be that you have to build much higher and if you haven't got the banks to do it, then you have to build a much larger and longer bridge to get the necessary height. And if you haven't got the traffic to justify it, then it's a lot of expense for nothing.
I do expect that when it is rebuilt that it will be built in a way that eliminates the need for it to ever be shutdown like that. Although, I think it does get shut for windstorms occasionally.
Theres a bride in buffalo I have walked and driven across thats exactly like that lifting section. Its a regular street with low traffic and it still feels like I'm walking too close to the cars. The middle of the bridge is a steel mesh instead of a normal road surface, so you can see straight down to the river below.
You’ve walked and driven across a bride, eh?
It's crazy that in this day and age we have a draw bridge in an interstate. Then again both Oregon and Washington highway designs are behind the times compared to the rest of the country. I often wonder if WSDOT even employs traffic engineers.
I'm not saying that the roads around Portland won't make you assume that people had no sense during the city's design, cause yeah. But this lift, like many thoughout the US, are because of federal shipping laws. The water traffic has priority over road traffic due to some of those laws. So if they want to go through on this specific river they get to go & the road waits. In this day & age it seems like it's time for a rewrite, but sadly the federal government doesn't much listen.
With the way the roads are designed in Portland, I can guarantee you there are no engineers working at ODOT. I'm pretty sure most of them never even graduated grade 6, never mind engineering school
Reminds me of the Stickel Bridge in New Jersey on I-280, another drawbridge that was grandfathered into the interstate system. It’s also right at an interchange with Route 21 and a NJ Transit train station in an urban area so the whole area is a mess of tight ramps, even with a bunch of bridge rehab and design work to make things a little bit better. I think one of the on-ramps to I-280 even used to have a stop sign instead adequate space for a merge lane.
@@gorak9000 It's not that the roads were necessarily designed like this. It's because of growth and a lack of rebuilding. Portland is working on this and has improved a lot of interchanges over the years while also putting in more pedestrian paths. This stuff takes time and portland grew very, very quickly which means we wound up with really poorly designed merges and interchanges.
@@CRneu I've been in Portland almost 10 years now, and I haven't seen anything change at all, never mind improve. All the major interchanges are poorly designed, with too many ramps all in the same place, and everyone coming in from the ramp wants to be on the far left, and everyone on the road wants to merge right into the lanes that start where the ramp is. Must've been designed by a psychotic 6 year old. None of it makes any sense, nor has any of it changed. All they've done is repave some sections at most. Look at the nightmare that is 26 going into 405 - every day the traffic comes to an absolute standstill because both 26 to 405 N and 26 to 405 S are the worst designed interchanges I've seen anywhere. And don't even get me started about all the lanes on 405 that just cease to exist where more lanes are needed, or there are lanes where they are not needed that have no traffic in them (or maybe there's no traffic there because they end abruptly and don't continue through). Then there are roads like Naito Parkway south of 405 that are large roads, that have almost zero traffic on it at any time of the day!! I'd be ashamed to be associated with anything to do with "planning" there. Generally I just don't go to Portland proper because the roads suck, and then parking downtown sucks, and it's not worth the frustration.
Rob, Maybe you could do a video on why the Golden Gate Bridge never got a lower deck, even though it was built to handle one. The framework is there---just no roadbed.