7 Problems You Don't Know About 2011s
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
- The double stack 1911 is one of the fastest and most accurate platforms, but it's not for everyone. Find out if it's right for you.
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My first problem....I can't afford one!
You ain't alone. Most working middle-class Americans cannot afford any of the fancy, high-end, expensive 2011 pistols shown. RIA is the best I can do 😎
Don’t worry sir neither can I
Boggles my mind how expensive these 2011s can be
Same
That’s not a 2011 problem, it’s a 2022 problem!!!
2:06 exposed ejector (when you _shove_ in magazines)
4:12 dropping the slide on an empty chamber
5:30 not engaging the grip safety
7:57 double fire (not being used to the 1911/2011's light triggers)
8:57 mag compatibility & interchangeability
10:34 tricky takedown
11:58 requiring more care (than Glocks, i.e.)
Not all heroes wear capes
Thank yoooouuuuu
Thank you
1. My first match (25 years ago)a GM told me If you run your gun dry! You have already made a big mistake. 2. Not engaging the grip safety! There is a reason that almost everybody that has a 2011 snaps off the tap on the grip safety. I have never had any of the other issue's with over 400,000 rds thru my SV 2011 (38 super)
@@riversideartglass what are taps on the safety grip?
One of the most honest and straightforward reviewers on TH-cam. No bullshit and fake stuff just real life. Keep it up. Appreciate you
.... and (Ta Da!) NOT a fully owned subsidiary of a gun maker.
Not a complete list....sadly #1 should be highly addictive!
you misspelled "useless amateur information".
Every new 2011 owner needs to watch this before they damage such an expensive piece of weaponry/art
“Art.” …like a cracked egg on an oil painting. Very fragile. Fail.
Art?! Hahahaha 😂
It’s a real turn off that a modern expensive firearm would be si temperamental next to its contemporaries.
@H K Lifetime guarantee.............
The timing is excellent for this vid, im going to pick up a staccato next month so this was awsome.
This video has summed up hours of conversations I’ve had over the years. Typically the people asking me are into cars and I usually relate running a 19/2011 to driving a classic car. It requires a level of attentiveness and maintenance not seen in modern platforms.
Totally agree the gen2 Staccato mags are a incredibly important improvement. I run the hell out of them with zero issues to report. I think the old days of tuning mags for the non competitive shooter are in the past.
Just a quick note - the 2011 platform has been around probably since the mid 1990s, originally codeveloped by the people who went on to found STI (now staccato) and SVI Infinity
Don't forget that Para Ordnance was making double stack 1911s too. Wouldn't exactly call those 2011's though
The first 2011 was actually a Chip McCormic I have on one of the first. Great gun still to this day. I had one built in 38 super for USPA in 1990.
Yep I bought my 1st para ordinance p14 ,45 in 94
@@ohnoitsandrew9538always wanted a Warthog
Chris, thanks for not giving one single fuck and telling us like it really is. That quality isn't one that very many people have these days.
Brother, there isn't another channel out there that compares to yours. Your honesty and comprehensiveness is beyond words. And I fkn appreciate it!!!
Great video. The C2 is my EDC and I absolutely love it. I’ll never go back to a striker fired gun. None of the “problems” are a problem to me. Staccato is now on the Gen3 magazines by the way.
I also carry the C2 everday. Love it. I go to the g43x in the summer if concealing becomes an issue
Picked up a Staccato CS last May. I started with my late Father-In-Law’s S&W 5906. Very similar take down, but the S&W is a little too big & heavy to conceal. Have not regretted going for the CS. Everything you said I considered. Being a novice I figured that the double safety would prevent me from having a Plaxico Burress situation. I absolutely love the Staccato. It was worth the money.
Excellent information, especially the advice to never release the slide on an empty chamber... with ANY 1911. Ed Banks, a master 1911 gunsmith, preached that point to me in 1992 when he returned a 1927 Argentine that he had worked on. I already knew it but Ed made sure all his customers knew and didn't forget.
This is a myth and has been disproven many times with high speed cameras.
@@StuninRub A myth? When metal is battered repeatedly with force against metal without the buffering a cartridge provides, there WILL be deformation or breakage. I don't know what high speed cameras have to do with it but there have been too many damaged 1911's to think it's a myth.
@@HSmith-uk9hl The cartridge does not buffer the slide whatsoever. This has been proven many times, the slide snaps back at the exact same speed.
@@StuninRub, so you're saying that the resistance of stripping a cartridge from the magazine, the rim slipping up under the extractor while rubbing the breech face and the case mouth seating against the chamber mouth to establish headspace doesn't slow the slide at all? I don't believe that for a second. You keep saying "it's been proven". By whom and can you link that proof?
@@StuninRub, you treat your 1911/2011 pistols as you please. I don't abuse mine and I'm not buying the road apples you're selling. Conversation over.
Great job, you covered the major points well. The only thing I would add is that the grip safety can be more of an issue with certain hand profiles, but a well tuned grip safety can over come most of this issue. The 2011 like the 1911 is certainly a fine platform provided you understand and treat it accordingly.
You can deal with the magazine hitting the ejector with higher quality base plates and higher quality ejector (I use the Wilson bulletproof series). You can deal with the cleaning and takedown issues by practicing until it becomes easy. You can deal with the trigger reset issues by practicing with your gun until the trigger is second-nature to the shooter. People who don't want to do these things should buy a Walther PPQ or PDP so they at least have the semblance of a good trigger, or just shoot a Glock and don't worry about performance (speed and accuracy). I've just started building custom 2011s, and I believe that they are the future of high-performance handguns. The Wilson EDC X9 series are fascinating (and excellent to shoot after a little work on the trigger), but not technically 2011 designs. Great video!
Great informative video! Learned 2 new things….don’t jam in a new mag aggressively and also don’t let the slide run freely without a bullet in the chamber. Love my C2. Thanks 👊🏻
Not born in America but migrated legally.
I’m a proud American Citizen and I love 1911s.
🇺🇸
Hackathon says it is the gun preferred by all True American Patriots. 😁
From my experience the 1911 A2 (double stack) and 2011 are like the formula 1 of the gun world, best performance and feel but requires it to be tuned. My prodigy has had major issues and I hope it doesn't discourage buyers from the 1911/2011 world since they are amazing firearms. Go Staccato in my opinion, planning to buy a bul armory in the future.
Love it. Basic 1911 training besides the mag differences. Good content to new 1911 platform shooters 👍🏻
The 'tricky' takedown is funny to me because my first striker pistol was a Ruger SR. After getting a Glock it finally made sense why people hated it.
Don't hate any of my Glocks, but it is hard to pull the slide capture wings down. It's a lot harder than it should be. I'm 71 and my fingers just aren't as strong as they once were. Bolugh one of the tools to help me perform the takedown, but I much prefer the 1911/2011 type takedown.
M&P pistols are terrible for takedowns. Got stuck with one for work reasons. Let's say you can do everything "right" and still won't disassemble. Also the triggers are atrociously asinine...
Rather have a beaten up Glock, which I can at least takedown. Since I can't carry my 1911
I appreciate you putting this video out. I’ve been looking into getting a Staccato and I’ve never really thought about the differences I’d come across
I have the staccato c2. Love love
Oh my goodness. You pointing out these negatives just saved me a couple thousand dollars by my not purchasing my first 2011. You are a plethora of value packed firearm information!!!
I like your cleaning comment, where you don't clean your striker fired guns until 2-4k rounds down the pipe. I already clean all my hand guns, striker or hammer, after every trip out to the range. It keeps them looking great and their performance has been phenomenal. I'm very interested in getting a 1911/2011 style fire arm, and have already looked up take down and cleaning stuff on it. Wouldn't be a change of pace for me, just more and more fun ;)
Yeah. I can’t remember the last time I cleaned my Glock 34 - at least a few thousand rounds ago. Lol
I’ve been running a 2020 P DUO for duty use, SWAT use and certified level 1 armorer for staccato. I have yet to run into any issue with the mags damaging the ejector or causing malfunctions, some people must be doing some ridiculous things forcing a mag in the gun. But the other stuff I agree with 100%.
1. For the Mags get Wolff springs and swap out the 20 round springs. Then put the 20 round springs in the 17 round mags. Just use staccato mags.
2. I can run my gun so dirty and have zero issues, BUT the only maintenance besides the basic cleaning a 2011 owner should do is check extractor tension. Simple to do and plenty of videos online. Other than that, I love my 2011s and trust the firearm to save my life when I need it.
Coming from a previous Glock/MP user, this shouldn’t shy you away from a staccato 2011, prodigy is a whole other story.
I was thinking the same thing… I ran STI 2011s for years and never once broke an extractor and trust me these were working guns, not safe queens. Make me wonder what the heck folks are doing to jam the mags or break extractors… 🤦🏻♂️
Good info. I used to have to build/tune all my 2011 mags. You can (or could) buy the mag tubes, then select your base plate and internals from your favorite aftermarket vendor. I've run tens of thousands of rounds through my STIs in action matches, and like you, never damaged anything by inserting a mag, even somewhat forcefully.
Which specific wolff springs for the Staccato mags? Can't find 9mm versions or anything. New to the Staccato platform - trying to heed your advice.
@@chrissnoeberger192 76163 SKU STI,SVI.38 HICAP XP MAG SPG XTRA-COILS Pak of 3 $18.49
Hilton Yam talks about the mag over insertion problem with 2011s and says if you use staccato mags with the factory base pads they act as an over insertion stop and solve this issue.
This is the beginners manual for all the novice 1911/2011 owners 😂 good video as always Outlaw. Keep creating fire content!
I love that you have no problem saying what you actually think about a gun! Love hearing your true opinion
Staccatos won't have over insertion problems if you're running the correct mag/basepad. Also the grip safety only needs to be 50% compressed to still fire. Trigger pull is 3.5lbs-4.0. Xl and Xc have 2.5lb triggers. 🤘🤠🤘
And the Staccato with the Dawson tool less guide rod does NOT require a paper clip. That's why they call it tool less.
No one mentioned that BUL Armory was making this style of gun before anyone else. We just didn't know of them here in the States.
I have a Staccato C2 being delivered on Tuesday. I’ve only had striker fire pistols prior to this coming week and I’m so glad I watched this before I got my hands on the pistol. The only thing I knew was not to rack the slide on an empty chamber. Thank you so much for all your content and pro-tips!
I like how you provide solutions for these guns, and then go out and make a video discussing all the pros of 2011s. You don't just take a dump on the platform and walk away.
I've owned Para double stack's since the 90's, the only problem I had was weak mag springs. After installing wolf springs, the problems went away. The only other issue was the compound recoil springs on the Para P10 was too stiff for standard loads, but runs fine with +P loads.
The FNX also has the same problem with the recoil spring
Had a Para in the 90s as well. The mags were trash for sure.
Wolf springs are the best !!
Anecdotally no one’s 1911 has any issues, but obviously they have more issues and maintenance than something like a Glock
I got a para double stack LDA, the mag spring thing is definitely an issue. Another is that the takedown is a pain in the ass. The barrel bushing is stubborn as hell and I’ve never liked non captive recoil springs
“If you treat your guns like you treat your lawnmower. Carry a Glock. If you don’t; Buy a 1911(2011)” also Clint Smith 😂
Tools NEED to be durable. Otherwise it’s just a fragile show pony. Function checking a staccato shouldn’t break it.
Excellent Video!! I think it should be made required viewing before someone buys a 1911. You explained the “why” in a direct and informative way.
Only things stopping me from getting a 2011 is mag reliability and it needs way more maintenance. Like my Glocks,Sigs and HKs just run through 1000s of rounds especially my HKs.
And expensive to get a decent 1911, compared to cheap Glock than can eat any ammo, low maintenance, no break in period
Only thing from me is money 😂
Don’t forget cost, they get ridiculously expensive. I’ve had some 2011s that I’ve never had a failure in and I’ve had others I can keep running there sometimes the starts just align
Staccato specifically has fixed their magazine issues, I have a Staccato P it came with 3 mags 2 126mm/1 140mm, I have never had one failure with any of them. I then bought 2 more 126mm, and same I have never had one malfuction with any of them. I also have not cleaned them yet, or tuned them in any way. They are expensive thats for sure but they do work
Also since I have a Staccato P with their magwell on it, and I only use their 126mm/140mm magazines with thier basepads. They act as an over insertion stop, the base pads bottom out on the inside of the magwell not allowing you to over insert and break your extractor. I am not sure if that is the case without the magwell and their base pads, or if you use their longer 170mm extened magazines
I can ditto this. I’ve got between 5-10k on my VP9 Match and not a single malfunction that was the gun’s fault.
I own 6 2011 pistols from 3 manufacturers. 4 of these are strictly for competition. I have run into every issue on this list and in spite of that, these are my favorite shooters. I minimize reliability issues in these guns by only shooting my own hand loads that were tuned for the specific gun. Custom pistol and custom ammunition are equally important in competition. I enjoy the time I spend working on the guns and making the ammo.
Gosh, sounds like a terrible gun for a defensive use then.
@Dave56678 Your point is well taken. Not all firearms are perfect self defense tools. My 4 race guns are very tightly tuned and are only used for competition in USPSA and IDPA, not really intended for self defense use. My STI Eagle in 45 ACP and my Para P18 in 9MM are both bone stock 2011’s and will reliably run virtually any ammo I want to try, but these pistols are too large for me to carry concealed comfortably. For a house gun, I’d bet my life on either one. My EDC choice is a Springfield EMP in 9mm. All the speed goodies of the big guys in a compact package. I always try to use the right tool for the job. In any case, I get countless hours of enjoyment out of my wide-bodies. If you get a chance to try one, you may find yourself wanting one for your collection as well.
Sounds like a lot of issues for a gun that costs so much money.
Great video. This will help me with my new Bul Armory SAS II TAC which I bought because I wanted Springfield to get some experience with the DS Prodigy instead of being a tester.
I got a SAS Tac ii as well. It's been rock solid for me. They also sent an rmr plate so I didn't have to do much the throw an optic on it.
How is it? I was seriously considering buying this!
I have been on a wait list for over a year for a Bul.
What??
From what I’ve seen online that looks like a sweet gun
This was very helpful man because I've been looking at buying a staccato but had no idea about these differences. I currently carry a sig p365xl everyday and it is very simple for me to handle and take care of so I'm glad you put this video out for ones thinking about getting into a 2011. I do however like to tinker and take care of my stuff well so I definitely will be buying one. Thanks again man!
Hey! If you'll be totally new to the 1911/2011 platform, I just wanted to offer this piece of advice. Dry fire practice is especially useful with these guns because of the two different safeties they use. A few snap caps are a lot more affordable than box after box of loaded ammo!
@@eljefeamericano4308 thanks for the advice man!
@@mikesilva7563 No problem!
Defiantly been defeated by a grip safety, the rest of your points really took me by surprise. I never knew of these issues😮 I am not a fan of 2011's due to the increased weight but I do like how they fit in my hand. Thanks for sharing!
As a new Staccato P owner I appreciate that this came up on my thread! Good information for taking care of my firearm. Thank you! 😊
It’s the interesting backstory is it makes everything so special. I agree that if you are not used to 1911s/2011’s this is important information. They are absolutely great firearms.
Perfect timing! I’m buying a 2011 in the next week or so. I’m leaning towards the Staccato, but we’ll see.
On my 2011s I re-worked the grip safety to only require small press movement to enable. And relax the spring pressure. Solved the reliability issue for me while keeping the safety.
I have been a 1911 guy since I was in the Marines (80-84). I was then a LEO for 20 years carrying a 1911. Since then I regularly compete in local shoots with my STI 2011 and 1911. I have not experienced any of these failures over the 45 years I have been shooting… maybe I am just lucky 🍀 Good video, but I think younger shooters simply have a bias against this older technology. It is fun to watch people discovering the joy of shooting 1911/2011’s.
I've been shooting my 1911's since the 80's, and I never realized they were downsides. That's just the way it was. I was taught the only time you let the slide slam home is when you're chambering a round. I was also taught how to decock [uncock?] the gun, because you never let the hammer fall unless there's a round [or snap cap] in the chamber. As for disassembly, it's not a revolver, so you have to take it apart to clean. It is what it is. This was normal, and is my standard for comparison, because this is what I learned first. I also learned to drive with a manual transmission. 😊
Thank you for an unbiased assessment! I love the idea of a 2011, and will probably get one some day, but I primarily carry for self-defense. Seems like these guns are gear a little bit toward competition, which is perfectly fine. God forbid I have to defend myself with lethal force, but if I do, the last thing I want to be worrying about are the issues mentioned here.
I always favored the 1911 platform, so for a long time I didn't think much of what it required of the shooter to carry and employ one effectively. I'll tell ya that you absolutely can use one as a carry gun, but I'd suggest getting in enough practice with one to really build up the muscle memory of squeezing the grip safety and deactivating the trigger. Dry fire practice would be good enough for that part, at least, so that's pretty affordable! I'm not trying to talk you into the platform or anything. The choice of a carry gun is a pretty personal thing. But if you're drawn to this platform, I also don't want ya to feel too discouraged!
as someone that owns 2 staccatos I can comfortably say I am 100% ok with putting my life behind them and I do every single day. the issues here are very simple to mitigate with the proper practice and quality products. The ejector issue can be prevented by using the right sized baseplates that prevent overinsertion, the safety switch "issue" can even be used to your advantage as a pedal for better recoil control, the mags can be dealt with by getting quality mags as stated in the video, the grip safety can be deal with by either practicing with it or pinning it down with something as simple as a ranger band. I suggest you get a 2011 and you'll be able to trust your life with it. I have close to 1k rounds in my Staccato P and around 500 rds in my Staccato C2, once you shoot them you won't go back to anything else
Thanks for the good info, even at age 74 I seem to learn something every day. I did a qualification course for my HR218 CCW a few days ago with my new Sig P365 and a buddy of mine next to me qualified with his Staccato sporting a Leupold red dot and asked me if I wanted to give it a run. Never shooting one I said sure. The first stage of the qual is 5 rounds in 10 seconds at 5 yards, twice. I made ready by inserting the mag and chambered a round and was shocked how smooth and light the slide was. On the "threat" command I drew and fired quickly my 5 rounds very quickly and re-holstered. The trigger pull and reset was the lightest I've ever experienced. I looked at my target and noticed 4 of the five holes were all touching but one was 4" above the group. At the conclusion of the 25 round course my target had 24 of the 25 holes in a 2" group and the one 4" flyer. The range master looked at my target and asked what I did to cause the flyer and I had no explanation. After listening to your video, I now believe that the one 4" high flyer was a result of a double tap that you explained from the incredibly short reset after the first shot. Thanks for your wisdom and great videos!
I was consider swapping my shadow 2 but I use it for home defense. It’s basically a 2011 with the same battery of arms just no beaver tail and I agree with your reasoning. You usually cost me money thanks for saving it this time.
I am a 2011 guy. Own a bunch. My EDC is a Nighthawk Counselor and a Wilson SFX 9 both 1911/2011s. In my Opinion CZ is the closest thing you can get to a 2011. They are tough reliable and as accurate. My CZ SP 01 Custom Shadow with a short reset trigger job is a beast and isn’t finicky at all. It’s my home defense pistol in DA. I sold my Shadow 2 to a friend who owns a bunch of 2011s (including 2 Atlas) and he shoots competition with it.
You're smoking crack rocks: there's NOTHING you're going to accomplish with a 2011 that you can't do with a Shadow 2. The Shadow is a much better platform. Take the money you would spend on a 2011 & buy ammo to feed the Shadow. Then, go to the rage until the ammo's gone; MUCH better investment.
I am NOT a 2011 guy. BUT, as always, watching your videos is a treat. You educate shooters, new and old alike. Appreciate your work and knowledge.
If you're considering moving from one of the typical striker-fired pattern handguns to a 1911/2011, I have one piece of advice. Buy snap caps and put in some real time training to learn to draw the weapon with a proper grip that engages the grip safety, get used to sweeping that thumb safety down as you bring your sights onto your target, and then get used to that trigger pull. The 1911/2011 guns have great triggers, but shooters new to these guns may find them a little easy to fire prematurely. Likewise, if one is accustomed to something like a Glock, where there is no manual safety, it's real important to get used to that aspect of these firearms. The snap caps will save you a ton of money in ammunition, and let you practice the manual of arms in the comfort of your living room.
Proper baseplates fix the over-insertion issues. Between Dawson and 10-8 Performance, you should be able to find what you need for most mags (on Staccatos at least) except the 170mm ones.
Thank you for sharing your valued experiences. I'm curious of your thoughts on the Bul-Armory double stack on it's own merits, but also in comparison to those you have here. I really hope SA works the bugs out of this new offering...and work into an upgraded version...options are nice to have.
I'm in the gun industry, and I get to shoot and work on and see how thousands of different handguns perform all the time. The 1911 was a completely perfected design by the 1920s. Yet now has developed a reputation for a host of strange problems it never had before. This is due to most of the guns now available being degraded commercial copies which violate design intent in many ways and have dimensional alterations. The Kunhausen manual will explain what has occurred more thoroughly than any other source. This is a gun which was designed for controlled round feeding of ball ammunition and to cope with the harsh battlefield environment. Which it does remarkably well. When it's made exactly to its original US Ordnance specifications. Trying to get it to do and be something it was never meant to is going to cause problems. Proper magazines which exactly follow the original design are critical, though modified versions which are intended to cope with feeding cartridges other than roundnose ball can also be acceptable when made correctly. Probably the single greatest and most insidious violation of design intent currently is building the guns FAR TOO TIGHT. They were NOT meant for this, and it will make them malfunction. And using cast and MIM parts where machined steel heat treated to very specific hardness was meant to be used. The Kunhausen manual will explain it far more than is possible here. I'm now seeing exactly the same thing happening with the Glock. Another weapon that was completely perfected by its second generation. Now it's deviated from that design, with the resultant problems which are inevitable. The greatest source of trouble I see on a weekly basis is substituting aftermarket parts. This has become epidemic. Don't monkey with your gun by changing out factory parts. This NEVER improves performance, and usually results in some degradation of function. If you absolutely have to mess with your gun, then it should be confined to range use exclusively. There is no way around this basic fact. Leave it alone. You are not going to make it better than it left the factory. This recent phenomenon of guns which were extremely well tested and perfected suddenly developing problems they never had before is truly bizarre, and entirely the result of uninformed and inexperienced people thinking they can make something better by tampering with it. That is not generally possible.
I'll keep my Para P-13 bought it new in 1997, light weight alloy frame, steel 80 series slide, 13 and 1, runs like a champ, I've only had one minor issue with 1 mag that was a quick fix (mag was dropped and bent the lip)
I have not experienced the bent ejector issue with my C2. From what I understand this occurs when you insert a longer magazine from a Staccato P into a C2. The 2011’s use the base plate as an over travel stop. 10-8 Performance sells extended base plates to use the longer magazine in a shorter grip gun. This can also happen in a 1911. Doesn’t happen in Glocks because they have a tiny ledge that serves as a stop.
Appreciate the tip on the safety manipulation boss! I was on the fence on whether to put my strong hand thumb under or over the safety but now it all makes sense
I was an IPSC shooter in the 90s and struggled with having my thumb riding the safety and rubbing the slide causing a stoppage. Also, it can cause the gun to cant to the left on longer shots (25+ yds) i was able to rectify the slide drag issue by adding a metal guard to the side of the frame, but I always found it better to put my thumb under the slide. I never had any issues with accidentally engaging the safety. If riding the safety works for you, do it though. As always, a thoughtful and honest review from someone with experience. Keep up the good work!
Based upon your discussion, I'm surprised you didn't compare the 2011 crop of pistols with the CZ Shadow pistols . . . The downsides of a 2011 seem to be a pretty significant tradeoff to get the 1911 trigger pull. I'd be more inclined to opt for a Shadow 2 or just stick with my CZ Custom ProTek II (highly upgraded CZ P-01)
I agree. Plus, you gain double/single action capability and a decocker with the CZ.
Love my Sti 4.0 and my biggest gripe is reassembly…. Lining everything up is a pain. Still my favorite pistol I own
I'd love to see a video on the RIA Tac Ultra with your thoughts and opinions. An $800 10mm gun seems too good to be true.
It’s more affordable, but it has optic mount/cuts
As a newer 2011 style owner, these are great tips. Thank you for all your hard work.
Wow this was a really eye opening video! I wanted one for shits and giggles before but the price was a barrier. Now i definitely dont want one due to these issues.
Don't borrow one to shoot you will be stuck buying one.
I'd say I dig your content about 85% of the time. I still leave a like because I respect the honesty and information I get as being a shooter for only 8 yrs now and I'm 50. Though I dont agree with certain firearms because I'm one of the fortunate ones to have never shot a bad 1 and I own 2 at the moment. Best regards to you, lady outlaw, and continued success.
I'm getting a staccato in a week. My first 2011. I can't wait to shoot it.
Enjoy. You're gonna love it.
You have made the most honest review of 1911/2011 guns...Thank you !
I've been meaning to get into the 2011 game. Thanks for sharing this information brother.
Not anymore huh
My experience with CZ TSOs and Checkmates is a bit better than with 2011s, which given the cost differences is why I don't own one. My experience based on friends and fellow competitors is that the comparable CZs, though not perfect, can be run much dirtier, have less magazine problems, aren't bothered by slamming magazines home, and don't have issues with slamming the slide forward on an empty chamber. In extreme cases Checkmates have had broken barrels (not since being reinforced by CZ) running major ammo, may require magazine tuning (squeezing with rods in a vice) and appear to treat slide stops as sacrificial. My limited experience. Maybe off topic. Excellent review.
Chris, interestingly enough, since I started on 1911s the takedown is intuitive for me and I have to "figure out" how my striker fired take downs work. Each is a little different and arguably easier but different. Love the video and content.
Shot my first 1911A1 when I was 19 years old...one the Army issued me. Fell in love with it. Carried one as a cop for years and trained many other cops to use one. My policy was if they wanted to carry any kind of 1911 instead of a Glock etc, they had to be willing to put in extra time learning how it worked and extra training. Never had any problems.
I've always pinned the grip on all my 1911's regardless of it being a single stack, or double because of the very reasons you mentioned.
The grip safety was an army administrative requirement with the original intended purpose being for the still existing calvary, that's why it's superfluous and redundant.
You nailed #4 for me. Being so used to the Glock trigger I would double fire my C2 so I sold it. Kinda want it back now
I clean mine after a range session but I don’t have a lot… I could see going longer but sometimes that one spot needs cleaned!
Same here I clean and lube after every range trip, but I tend to shoot at least 300-600 rounds each trip. Even when I did 600 it still ran great right down to the last shot
great points! i remember the 1st time I broke down my STI edge and had to use that stupid plastic takedown tool for the guide rod. Luckily, Dawson Precision has tool less options and overall an excellent resource for 2011 owners.
Trigger reset. Use the Rob Latham method. He always released the trigger completely before we fire the next round and nobody ever accused him of being slow and how fast he was able to shoot the firearm.
It's overrated (reset/takeup). People try to make both minimal for no reasons other than showing off w/out realizing it can cause other problems.
Neither of you were Rifle Experts in the Marine Corps clearly. Short reset has nothing to do with speed, it's about accuracy.
Ben Stoeger was just talking about this, as soon as you shoot multiple pistols, either for training or competetion you learn that focusing on the reset is not worth the time, takeup can still matter at distance but thats a different story.
@@whodat9198 I'm not saying it shouldn't be tuned to it's optimal setting. I'm saying the things you notice while shooting a match vs holding an unloaded gun up to your ear and pulling/releasing the trigger as slowly as you can are very different. But thanks for explaining that shooting something with a rifle at 1000 yards is different than shooting something with a pistol at 60 feet; I might have missed that.
@@EdTom82 Yeah you clearly missed that. The fundamentals of marksmanship are no different between rifle and pistol except that's its more important for pistol because it's a more unstable shooting platform. Feel free to keep posting your ignorance in full public view though.
I have a 2021 Staccato P DPO about 2,000 rounds through it and I’ve had zero issues. Best shooting, fastest shooting most accurate pistol I’ve ever owned and keep in mind I use this very same model as a duty pistol as well with absolute confidence. Furnished with an RMR, Surefire X300U, optional night sights and running the Safariland holster.
I've never had that problem on my 1911 with knocking the safety on while firing it.
Agreed. Never seen that.... weird
I'm glad somebody finally said it. I suspect all these people complaining about the Prodigy are not 1911 guys
“Tha Bul Armory SAS Tac Ultralight is a fantastic edc firearm . Bul Armory make very nice pistols and even their sub 1000 dollar 1911s are very high quality
@@DinoNucci very insightful and intelligent reply. Thanks for responding
Thanks for bringing these unknowns into the light. The 2011/1911 DS appeal to folks as a more mass produced option arrived. I couldn't justify a $2500 or more gun, but maybe $1500. Also thanks for the honest no bs review. Good is good, bad is bad. No need to make excuses and be the salesman for these companies.
2011 came out long before the year 2011. I think Strayer and Tripp started in 1993 or 1994.
It refers to the idea of bringing the 1911 into the next century.
Yes but we have a ton of people out here who believe that the staccato is the first of the platform
@@dustinn5490 His comment refers to the line in the video where he says 2011's have been around since 2011, maybe a little bit before that.
I'm a 1911 fan . Have Colt Combat Commander and Kimber. Going to save up for a Springfield 2011. Thanks for the information
This video makes me glad I never bought into the 2011 craze. I’m not gonna carry a gun THAT picky in any kind of EDC/duty capacity. It aint worth it.
It's not picky at all. At least the well built ones aren't. Staccato runs like a dream. If you can't be bothered to do a basic 15 minute cleaning every few range trips then that's a different type of flaw altogether.
They are not for carry at all. It is a military sidearm designed to be carried on an empty chamber typically. Accurate as hell but not as good as myth says. A CZ or SIG is a much better carry gun
Dunno, I've run 1k rounds through my Staccato without cleaning it and it ran just fine. Still sucked to clean after 1k rounds, but it was running fine.
I enjoyed and learned a little something from this video! What I learned was, no offense to you, was the more 9mm pistols that hit the market the less inclined I am to purchase a second 9mm pistol. I think I will stick with semi-auto pistols in calibers that start with a "4" for the most part and utilize my 9mm for practice purposes and only occasional/seasonal concealed carry.
I have a ranger band around my grip safety. I shot Glocks my entire shooting life and then got a C2. To say I had to learn how to walk again would be an understatement. The grip safety was biggest issue. I wanted to get way up there on my grip but the I create a space that doesn’t allow me to depress it. So that was my fix and so far so good. Thanks for you amazing content Mr. Outlaw, you’re an inspiration to myself and just recently I started doing some reviews and recording range footage.
How about a Rock Island review? I see they’re $899. The full size 9mm double stack 1911 is pretty nice. You reviewed worse guns than Rock Island.
I have one
I had one in my hand the other day it felt great and very affordable.
I don't have a 2011 because striker fire pistols still outshoot my ability but I do have a Colt 1911 in 45 ACP because my grandpa had a WW2 era 1911 he taught me to shoot with. Regarding the grip safety getting back into the 1911 thing has corrected a lot of my lazy habits with regard to grip technique.
I thought they were “ fLaWlEsS “ jk but both prodigy and STI’s are having small issues
As a new gun owner. This was very informative. Will you do a cleaning video? Deff have my sub. Glad a saw this.
I don’t feel the grip safety is a significant issue It has never been an issue for me. I will add the caveat that I dont shoot competition and I have never really been in a high stress situation where I had to draw and fire but I feel the manual safety is more of an issue for me than the passive grip safety that is almost impossible not to engage unless your grip is so poor that you should be pulling the trigger in the first place
I am constantly hitting that damn safety. It is a ridiculous placement for it, right in the way of your grip. That's the main reason I won't drop coin on these expensive 2011s, too hard to use quickly in a competitive or stressful situation
Ime I've only ever had that issue on STI and Staccato which is one train I stayed away from them and went a different direction. It's a personal thing, but you can tune the grip safety so it's not an issue if you want to resolve it.
The grip safety issue is a real thing and you're obviously inexperienced by making such a comment of how impossible not to engage and how we shouldn't be pulling the trigger in the first place. Shoot some courses of fire under a clock and with a stack of other competition shooters with you and you'll come to appreciate why some of us pin our grip safety's or why Atlas, as one example, doesn't include it.
@@cuachogaidh I hope you are constantly hitting it the pistol won’t function unless its depressed lol
As a custom 2011 builder I just ran across your vid. Most of the reviews and info I see out there are full of misinformation. You sir are the exception. Great video. I will say you will not ruin the lock up dropping the slide on an empty but it definitely doesn’t do the fire control group any good. Keep up the good work.
Very good info for those of us who have no experience with 1911's or 2011's.
You know why I get frustrated with American gun buyers? Because they say a 2011 is worth $1,500 but a tavor x95 is not worth $1,700.
Neither is true imo
Lol 1500 is cheap. The upper echelon are literally hand fitted piece by piece and start around 3000 up.
@@jonathonbridges9625 exactly and most people are willing to pay for that quality which is why I'm frustrated that people consider the x95 to be beneath them as if it's not a legitimately quality firearm.
I owned one for a year and if I didn't need to pay for my rent or become homeless I probably would have been one really geared out and well armed homeless guy.
@@jonathonbridges9625 yea and from what I can tell with all the videos I've seen on these things, they're nowhere near worth that. But to each his own I guess. I'll stick with M&P reliability.
My guess has always been that handguns are more popular/sell better than rifles. My guess is This is due to:
1. Most people live in urban or suburban areas where there are indoor ranges or short range outdoor ranges close by. You end up buying what you can have fun shooting, which at short range is mostly handguns
2. Concealed carry is so widespread and popular now everyone wants guns they can carry.
3. Unrelated, most 2011’s are hand fitted with lots of human hours involved. This is in stark contrast to any basic semi automatic rifle (AR’s, all the bullpups, etc.). Human labor is VERY expensive, particularly in the USA.
I'm going to pick up my new staccato today and I'm glad I watched this video. Very informative, thank you for making this vid. I always go to your videos whenever I'm researching guns because I trust you with all your experience etc. Thanks
Well at least these type of guns are overly expensive for very little reason.
Plus all the problems they have, sounds completely worth it. *Raspberries * 🤥🤔
If you drive for transportation, and little else, you buy a cheap but reliable car that you can run into the ground. An old Civic, an old Corolla, something that can run in adverse conditions. If you drive for sport, you buy something expensive, but requires more care. Often, the return on that trade is greater performance. The same applies here.
If you shoot simply to ensure that you are capable enough to hit whatever you're aiming at when the need arises, you buy something simple, made of durable but cost-effective materials and doesn't require constant care. If you shoot competitively, you buy something which is more finely-tuned, with tight tolerances and made of heavyweight materials, but means paying a little more mind to how you treat it. The return, once again, is performance.
Obviously, this does not go for _every_ gun out there, as some more predatory companies will attempt to convince you with the 2011's oft-touted reputation for precision and speed while making their parts from sub-par materials, but still charge as much as a respectable company would for their product. However, regarding those which _do_ appropriately justify their price, it all comes down to the age-old principle: *_You get what you pay for._*
you sound poor. dont be salty.
@@blarghinatelazer9394 the "greater performance" BS excuses you just made are laughable. The performance will NEVER be that much more than most stock pistols. The scales are barely tipped, if at all. The price difference will never be justified. No matter how many excuses of justifications you try to conjure up in you head. Nice effort though. Maybe next time try to think it out to conclusion.
A high end 1911/2011 is wife material. Polymer strikers are just whores.
Thanks for this great review Chris!!! My Bul Armory SAS II UR needs lots of care. I clean it every time I shoot, even 50 rounds. I'm happy to do it despite it takes 1.5 hours.
By the way, I'm shooting my first IPSC match this coming Saturday. Hope I don't suck at it or be DQed. I'll keep you posted.
Cheers from Montreal!!!!!
……..Or you cold just get a Glock. Could have been a 1 min video. 😮
Right, lighter even with a 33 round magazine 😂
Yeah have one, it's lonely since the Staccato and EDC X9 came into my life.
Haha he said Glock 😂
super important video man, ur always on it w this channel. Greatly appreciated!!
The cleaning frequency made me laugh. I clean my guns after every use. I don’t want even a chance of not having my weapon be there when I need it.
Very well put together. You laid it out well enough to let people know whether to purchase one or not.
I own a Staccato P w/ over 4000 rounds through it. No malfunctions other than bad ammo w/ bad primers that I pick up from the range floor (work at a range). 9 out of 10 times my gun will fire light primer strikes that people eject from striker fire guns. Cleaning is easy when I feel like it. The gun runs dirty but I do oil it every couple hundred rounds. The ejector problem is a non issue if you use Staccato mags w/ the factory base plates. The base plates prevent over insertion of the mag that could damage the ejector. 10-8 Precision’s base plates also prevent over insertion. I don’t baby my Staccato. I wear it while on duty and also EDC it. Most accurate gun I own. Glad HO does these type videos but do your own research.
Just added the prodigy to my 2011 collection. Not sure if I think it’s worth the price yet. I like the look of the slide being flush with frame. Edc x9 is my favorite And I thought I was the only one putting slide back on. It does help. Especially after broken in
I really enjoy your videos, and this one is no exception! I just have comments on two aspects of this video though. To be clear, I have a lot of time on 1911s. I have shot 2011s, not extensively though and I don't own any...
1. Regarding riding the right thumb on top of the thumb safety - that works great for the 1911/2011, but can cause problems with other pistols. I carried a 1911 on duty for several years, and I was initially taught to leave my thumb on the safety, which as I said worked great for the 1911. I switched to the Beretta 92FS, and with my habit of resting my thumb on the safety, my thumb was now resting on the slide stop. Of course this prevents the slide from locking back on the last shot, which is a huge problem for me because I really want to feel that slide lock back to stimulate me to perform the empty-gun reload. To avoid this problem, I had to re-train myself to rest my right thumb on top of my support thumb, slightly away from the pistol to stay off of the slide stop. After untold thousands of reps resting my thumb on the safety, as you can imagine, it has taken a LOT of work to beat that habit out of me! I now recommend that grip for all shooters as this works fine with all pistols, whereas resting the thumb on the safety does not. I have had friends with large hands have a similar problem with a Glock, which I used to fix by cutting off the slide stop lever flush with the slide. It will then lock back every time, you just need an empty magazine if you need to lock the slide back. But, as I said, now I recommend that different grip.
2. Regarding slamming magazines into a 1911/2011 damaging or breaking an ejector - I have actually done this (on a 1911), but only with a full-size magazine in an Officer's frame. Namely, it was a Kimber CPD Ultra Carry. I ran a full-sized magazine into the pistol hard doing an empty gun reload during a competition. This snapped the ejector completely off. The silver lining here is the gun continued to run perfectly without an ejector, although I did replace it when I discovered it had broken off. With full-size magazines in a full size gun, or officer's size magazines in the Officer's size guns, the base plate has always prevented over-travel of the magazine. I have never had a problem with those configurations. In the video is appears you use over-sized magazines where there is nothing to prevent that over-travel. I think flush-fitting magazines would prevent this.
Thanks again! Keep up the good work!
Scott
Thanks Chris infecting me with the 2011 bug!!!! Saving for a Prodigy... Love your videos dude!