I mean yes, unlike his brother Gaspen Payne, he is actually not corrupted and does his job properly, he's just... not very good at it. And his manners are questionable. Also he's bald.
@@Ineedabigboi1771if he is not lying, then he has a 7 year streak, which means he was actually good at it. The idea was that Mia defeated him so bad that he lost his confidence alongside his hair. That or he lied, boasting to a rookie Apollo to make him lose confidence.
Winston's win record was not because he was a good prosecutor, it was because of 2 reasons: 1. In the Ace Attorney world prosecutors have massive advantages due to how the legal system works, so they usually win regardless of talent. 2. Winston's wins were because he constantly went against new attorneys, which is why he got the title "Rookie Killer". Anyone can have a perfect win record if they always go against weak opponents in a legal system that gives them many advantages, so his wins mean less than they seem.
My personal headcanon is that Winston, who is a fairly old guy compared to most other prosecutors, is actually a rather decent one (or at least pretty average) who just happens to go against "rookies" most of the time, hence the name "Rookie Killer". He just had the bad luck of lose against one particularly lucky attorney and be around other prosecutors whose luck outshine his years-long experience. I also think despite his overconfidence, which got a bit humbled in the Doug Swallow case, he is a lot more nice and honest person than his little brother Gaspen. You know, the guy who got fired in his home country and fled into a foreign land with no attorneys where he later had no qualms about giving *a nine-year-old child* a death penalty just to get back at Phoenix for petty revenge?
theres some terrible truth to his win streak which ties in to Japan’s real life terrible justice system where they have to get a guilty verdict even on innocent victims.
Also note that Gaspen ran out of the courtroom in his post-credits scene in Dual Destinies because Edgeworth was about to cut his salary for using forged evidence. It’s entirely possible that he forged evidence during 5-1, so the fact that he fumbled that AND THEN a trial where the court system revolves around one girl interpreting the final moments of the victim with room for error is just comical.
@@MrSasukeSusanoo I wouldn't call them honest, when he very clearly loves to bother the defense, many of the trials he won were def bc he made the defense nervous. (Which, if he only prosecutes cases of murder, means he has blood on his hands)
@@mertensiam3384 I think he's pretty honest, I mean, he never forges evidence or bribes witnesses. He prosecutes every case with the confidence that the defendant is guilty. If the defense can't put up a proper fight for their client, especially if they're innocent, I think the blame lies more on the defense. I definitely agree that he tries to sully the defendant's character everytime, but still ... Isn't cold, hard evidence the ammunition in court? (2nd best ammunition is testimony of course.)
@@nuetralkitty58 not necessarily about the cold, hard evidence. In the world of ace attorney it seems like the client is guilty until proven innocent. He doesn't seem to care wether or not the defendant is guilty or not. The Judge is very easily manipulable into just forgetting about certain testimonies or pieces of evidence constantly, too. Winston used to only take cases against rookie defense lawyers and made them nervous to win, which is why despite lacking a lot of skills in almost every regard he won for so long as was known as the "Rookie Killer."
@@mertensiam3384 Yeah you've got a point. I was mostly thinking about Auchi from TGAA instead of Winston Payne. But even then... Yeah.. They love bullying it seems. Those two are still waaaaaayyy better than Gaspen Payne tho, that guy cares about me, myself and I.
You know what? It makes sense that Winston would lose to Phoenix on his first case. Being used to the sort of dominating presence that gives you a 7-year perfect win streak inevitably makes one complacent, meanwhile I'm sure a number of those defenders balked at Payne's reputation and more or less threw in the towel early. Phoenix got the good luck of a particularly shoddy attempt to act as a witness to one's own crime, and a complacent prosecutor unused to facing an attorney who doesn't flinch at the sound of his name.
I guess they dont make him out as a big deal because he is a "rookie killer", so he goes against mainly new attorneys. Which is pretty unfair when experiemce is such an important factor.
Reminder: Winston Payne’s title is the “Rookie Killer.” But any of the prosecutors in this franchise would demolish a fledgeling lawyer, as would any experience prosecutor. And yet, both Paynes are best known for being able to no-diff rookies. This implies that both of them went out of their way to prosecute cases where the defense is completely new to the scene, or where there is no defense. Then again, being undefeated against newbies for 7 years still means you were undefeated for 7 years.
The thing with Winston is, no matter how pathetic and spiteful he may seem he’s still an honest prosecutor who never forged evidence or tampered with any cases. Almost all other prosecutors in the series have played dirty at some point.
You know, I'm really curious who the tutorial rival in the next main-line AA ends up being. Spoilers from here on out concerning the main-line entrees. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . So in the finale of Duel Destinies, states Edgeworth states that he plans on using position as chief prosecuter in order fire any and all corrupt prosecuters and in the credits for set game Gaspan is called into the prosecuter's where Edgeworth then tells him that he's firred. So unless Winston is gonna have a complete change of heard, I doubt that any Payne will be the tutorial rival going forward. It would be pretty neat if Klavier or Blackquil end up being the tutorial rival in the next main-line AA game. Start game off by having the player face-off against someone who the player likely knows already and whose also a lot less hostile before the inevitible next main prosecuter is introduced in the 2nd case who you then do battle with.
Funny enough, miles actually only had a 3 year win streak. From his first case (Turnabout Beginnings) roughly dated to Feb 2013 to his lost (Turnabout Sisters) in Sep 2016
If there's anything Winston can hold its that he's probably the CLEANEST prosecutor we've seen in the OG trilogy. Edgeworth, at least in trial 2, tries to buy time and manufactures witness testimonies (sure he's better now but he DID do that stuff). Manfred is Manfred, he does a lot of illegal stuff. Franziska isnt bad perse, but she has a WHIP. Godot (MAJOR T&T SPOILER BLOCK). While yes Winston does like to talk down to the defense, that's really it. He isn't one to forge evidence or withhold information. Even if he only went after rookies, respect for at least keeping it clean, at least compared to his brother Gaspen who ALSO makes it easy for himself but resorts to methods way worse than his brother, like when Gaspen tried to essentially get Phoenix KILLED alongside his defendant cause he went to Khurain because it was so easy to win there due to the DCA.
I mean he also exclusively went against rookie attorneys until he was beaten, and he also loves to badger and make the defense nervousd, so i dont think its that big of an achievement.
i really doubt payne was telling the truth. this is the same guy who claims he taught phoenix “everything he knows” in the post credits scene of the first game
Of course Winston Payne is the rookie killer that means he only take cases with defense attorney that is a rookie of course he's always wins because he's always fighting a rookie
Not entirely. The court system in pheonix write is suppose to be a mix of the us court system and japanese court system. And take a guess which its more like. Phoenix wright is actually almost like a cry for help when you look at the state of the japanese court system. In japan it would not be uncommon for even the most incompetent of prosecuters to get a constant win streak for years simply because cases lean towards guilty already. Pheonix and apollo win cases nearly by sheer luck and most of the evidence would be thrown out the window. 99 percent of all arrests in japan are also convicted.
Damn… I hope vonkarma likes prison, because now he’s in violation of child labor laws, and he’d be accountable for cohesion, because he’s had a child becoming a lawyer long before any law school would accept her. and if you’ve been doing your homework, you know that’s unauthorized practice of law. And edgeworth would also be doing some time, because the average age of law school graduation is 25, so he’d be tried as an adult for unauthorized practice of law
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.83[1/2] เปิดแคมป์หลอนต้อนรับ 2 ตัวพ่อแห่งวงการผี!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2uPuHYHgwiI/mqdefault.jpg)
I haven't lost a case for 23 years. I'm 23. I've never had a case
You remind me of Godot introducing himself as a prosecutor hahaha
@@miss-laeaoh yeah
@@miss-laeawell technically he was right 😂
Literally Godot
Godot lore
Because Winston Payne has never lied and is a trustworthy source =)
I mean yes, unlike his brother Gaspen Payne, he is actually not corrupted and does his job properly, he's just... not very good at it.
And his manners are questionable.
Also he's bald.
@@Ineedabigboi1771 Wow.
You did him more dirty than I did.
@@Ineedabigboi1771He lost his hair due to Mia in Trials and Tribulations. Lol (RIP).
@@Ineedabigboi1771if he is not lying, then he has a 7 year streak, which means he was actually good at it. The idea was that Mia defeated him so bad that he lost his confidence alongside his hair.
That or he lied, boasting to a rookie Apollo to make him lose confidence.
Even Funner Fact: This means that Winston Payne's winning streak was also more than TWICE as long as Phoenix Wright's entire legal career.
well... phoenix has been a lawyer for 5 years by the end of SOJ so
@@aspofsnakes I was thinking "pre-disbarment", but yeah. And even by the end of SOJ, it's _still_ longer, albeit not twice as long.
Welp… his name is now “winced in pain”
@@weebandgaminginc.7593What about his brother, Gaspen Payne?
@@PlaybillsAndPixels I don’t know him that well, but he sounds like a nice guy
Nah godot has the best streak with 0 years
Bro lost his hair, then lost his winstreak.
It also makes sense he's called the 'Rookie Killer' for a reason and he's way older than both of them.
Older than both of them combined
When the literal wuss is better then two of the best, you know something is wrong with society
Winston's win record was not because he was a good prosecutor, it was because of 2 reasons:
1. In the Ace Attorney world prosecutors have massive advantages due to how the legal system works, so they usually win regardless of talent.
2. Winston's wins were because he constantly went against new attorneys, which is why he got the title "Rookie Killer".
Anyone can have a perfect win record if they always go against weak opponents in a legal system that gives them many advantages, so his wins mean less than they seem.
My personal headcanon is that Winston, who is a fairly old guy compared to most other prosecutors, is actually a rather decent one (or at least pretty average) who just happens to go against "rookies" most of the time, hence the name "Rookie Killer". He just had the bad luck of lose against one particularly lucky attorney and be around other prosecutors whose luck outshine his years-long experience. I also think despite his overconfidence, which got a bit humbled in the Doug Swallow case, he is a lot more nice and honest person than his little brother Gaspen. You know, the guy who got fired in his home country and fled into a foreign land with no attorneys where he later had no qualms about giving *a nine-year-old child* a death penalty just to get back at Phoenix for petty revenge?
Unlike Gaspen and Manfred, he takes defeats with grace
theres some terrible truth to his win streak which ties in to Japan’s real life terrible justice system where they have to get a guilty verdict even on innocent victims.
Also note that Gaspen ran out of the courtroom in his post-credits scene in Dual Destinies because Edgeworth was about to cut his salary for using forged evidence. It’s entirely possible that he forged evidence during 5-1, so the fact that he fumbled that AND THEN a trial where the court system revolves around one girl interpreting the final moments of the victim with room for error is just comical.
Imagine both your children end up being less successful then FUCKING WINSTON PAYNE!?!?!?!?
I always figured that Payne was the Glass Joe of Ace Attorney where he would have a record of 1-99
Then there's the giga chad Manfred Von Karma who didn't lose a case for 40 years and then went to jail
yeah but he cheated all those 40 years, at least Winston had honest wins
@@MrSasukeSusanoo I wouldn't call them honest, when he very clearly loves to bother the defense, many of the trials he won were def bc he made the defense nervous. (Which, if he only prosecutes cases of murder, means he has blood on his hands)
@@mertensiam3384 I think he's pretty honest, I mean, he never forges evidence or bribes witnesses. He prosecutes every case with the confidence that the defendant is guilty. If the defense can't put up a proper fight for their client, especially if they're innocent, I think the blame lies more on the defense. I definitely agree that he tries to sully the defendant's character everytime, but still ... Isn't cold, hard evidence the ammunition in court? (2nd best ammunition is testimony of course.)
@@nuetralkitty58 not necessarily about the cold, hard evidence. In the world of ace attorney it seems like the client is guilty until proven innocent. He doesn't seem to care wether or not the defendant is guilty or not. The Judge is very easily manipulable into just forgetting about certain testimonies or pieces of evidence constantly, too.
Winston used to only take cases against rookie defense lawyers and made them nervous to win, which is why despite lacking a lot of skills in almost every regard he won for so long as was known as the "Rookie Killer."
@@mertensiam3384 Yeah you've got a point. I was mostly thinking about Auchi from TGAA instead of Winston Payne. But even then... Yeah.. They love bullying it seems. Those two are still waaaaaayyy better than Gaspen Payne tho, that guy cares about me, myself and I.
To be fair, Payne literally only goes after rookies, he's known as the "rookie killer"
You know what? It makes sense that Winston would lose to Phoenix on his first case. Being used to the sort of dominating presence that gives you a 7-year perfect win streak inevitably makes one complacent, meanwhile I'm sure a number of those defenders balked at Payne's reputation and more or less threw in the towel early. Phoenix got the good luck of a particularly shoddy attempt to act as a witness to one's own crime, and a complacent prosecutor unused to facing an attorney who doesn't flinch at the sound of his name.
um actualy winson payne lost to mia fey
i love his objection voice
its always the default prosecuter & the default attorney having the craziest & longest beef
I guess they dont make him out as a big deal because he is a "rookie killer", so he goes against mainly new attorneys. Which is pretty unfair when experiemce is such an important factor.
Dang, Phoenix has a real knack for ending perfect win records
Ace Prosecutor: Winston Payne spinoff when?
Winston Payne’s first loss really was his descent into madness.
He had such a long winning streak because he only fought with the rookies.
Reminder: Winston Payne’s title is the “Rookie Killer.” But any of the prosecutors in this franchise would demolish a fledgeling lawyer, as would any experience prosecutor. And yet, both Paynes are best known for being able to no-diff rookies. This implies that both of them went out of their way to prosecute cases where the defense is completely new to the scene, or where there is no defense.
Then again, being undefeated against newbies for 7 years still means you were undefeated for 7 years.
I didn't like Winston Payne really much. But when they introduced his brother, Winston suddenly seems okay 😂
The thing with Winston is, no matter how pathetic and spiteful he may seem he’s still an honest prosecutor who never forged evidence or tampered with any cases. Almost all other prosecutors in the series have played dirty at some point.
Never thought I would hear Winston Payne described as a Chad 💀
How impressive he must be a rather terrifying and powerful opponent in the games.
The fact that each game a member of the payne family shows up is always funny.
Mia:haha point finger go brrr
Phoenix:haha rookie destroying a veteran prosecutor go BRRRR
Which war was He in?
You know, I'm really curious who the tutorial rival in the next main-line AA ends up being. Spoilers from here on out concerning the main-line entrees.
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So in the finale of Duel Destinies, states Edgeworth states that he plans on using position as chief prosecuter in order fire any and all corrupt prosecuters and in the credits for set game Gaspan is called into the prosecuter's where Edgeworth then tells him that he's firred. So unless Winston is gonna have a complete change of heard, I doubt that any Payne will be the tutorial rival going forward. It would be pretty neat if Klavier or Blackquil end up being the tutorial rival in the next main-line AA game. Start game off by having the player face-off against someone who the player likely knows already and whose also a lot less hostile before the inevitible next main prosecuter is introduced in the 2nd case who you then do battle with.
Who knows? There might be a third brother. Constance Payne, perhaps?
@@huldanoren951 are you making a refrence to an obscure fan-game?
@@spouwnerring No...?
@@huldanoren951 than why the name?
@@spouwnerring constant pain
Winston Payne also claims that he's Phoenix Wright's rival, so...
Funny enough, miles actually only had a 3 year win streak. From his first case (Turnabout Beginnings) roughly dated to Feb 2013 to his lost (Turnabout Sisters) in Sep 2016
Im shoked to hear that because i cant belive he held such streak and lost to an lawyer with amnesia
They don't call him "the rookie killer" for nothing.
This makes the fact that Manfred held a 40 year record even more terrifying
Imagine all the innocent people he sent to jail
Chadstone Payne
Darn. A window pane is better than the both of them 😢
If there's anything Winston can hold its that he's probably the CLEANEST prosecutor we've seen in the OG trilogy. Edgeworth, at least in trial 2, tries to buy time and manufactures witness testimonies (sure he's better now but he DID do that stuff). Manfred is Manfred, he does a lot of illegal stuff. Franziska isnt bad perse, but she has a WHIP. Godot (MAJOR T&T SPOILER BLOCK). While yes Winston does like to talk down to the defense, that's really it. He isn't one to forge evidence or withhold information. Even if he only went after rookies, respect for at least keeping it clean, at least compared to his brother Gaspen who ALSO makes it easy for himself but resorts to methods way worse than his brother, like when Gaspen tried to essentially get Phoenix KILLED alongside his defendant cause he went to Khurain because it was so easy to win there due to the DCA.
And unlike his brother he didn't flee to a country where defense attorneys lose almost any case and get punished for that
He must be a good
Mr von karma 💀
I mean considering how old he is, he didnt reportedly lose a case until Turnabout Beginnings agaisnt Mia so
Also the judge was truly shocked upon seeing his wife for the first time so I guess he really is a Chad?
Oh I vaguely remember that line but I can't remember where. Which case was that in?
@DerpyHiro I think it's when he's talking about love so maybe 3-1? Not sure
Ngl,that's pretty impressive.Considering that Max's profile states he isn't good at putting points forward😂
How the hell did Franziska von Karma become an Attorney at 13 years old?! They're just letting kids & teens work on court cases?
I mean they let someone with murder charges be one so XD
I mean he also exclusively went against rookie attorneys until he was beaten, and he also loves to badger and make the defense nervousd, so i dont think its that big of an achievement.
It's not that has the longer win record, it's just that he was lucky he never met so early in his carrer with phoenix wright
He hasn't lost a case in his first 8 years, not 7 ;-;
And he didn't use any dirty tricks or forging evidence
How the fuck did she become a prosecutor if she was 13?!?!?!
To be fair edgeworth did lose his first trial
hold on, a 13 year old went to trial?
Yup, she started prosecuting at the age of 13
@@DerpyHiro tf
This is absolutely canon. In Justice for all she has 5 years win streak
💀
I mean... With that judge who rarely notices obvious perjury and accepts decisive proof on the fly... It isn't even that hard to win
Didn't he say that he was the bother of the "other" Payne? The one you beat at the start?
i really doubt payne was telling the truth. this is the same guy who claims he taught phoenix “everything he knows” in the post credits scene of the first game
Well, considering he IS the tutorial case...
Of course Winston Payne is the rookie killer that means he only take cases with defense attorney that is a rookie of course he's always wins because he's always fighting a rookie
Not entirely. The court system in pheonix write is suppose to be a mix of the us court system and japanese court system. And take a guess which its more like. Phoenix wright is actually almost like a cry for help when you look at the state of the japanese court system. In japan it would not be uncommon for even the most incompetent of prosecuters to get a constant win streak for years simply because cases lean towards guilty already. Pheonix and apollo win cases nearly by sheer luck and most of the evidence would be thrown out the window.
99 percent of all arrests in japan are also convicted.
Ah yes cause Winston is very trustworthy
that why he’s so sexy 🥰🥰🥰
He only went after rookies until Mia happened so no this man is a wuss 💀
Bro think he's better than Manfred von Karma
And how long he's work as prosecutor?
Or he lied
Who?
Payne is full of crap.
Which one?
Damn… I hope vonkarma likes prison, because now he’s in violation of child labor laws, and he’d be accountable for cohesion, because he’s had a child becoming a lawyer long before any law school would accept her. and if you’ve been doing your homework, you know that’s unauthorized practice of law. And edgeworth would also be doing some time, because the average age of law school graduation is 25, so he’d be tried as an adult for unauthorized practice of law