A lot of comments already, but if it hasn't been mentioned. When you hone with torque plates, you test the piston with the plates installed, as they are distorted as if the cylinder was installed. Trying the pistons without the torque plates are testing without the deformation of the plates.
@@zxtimmy4 i am very grateful to Alex for sharing my page. That video doubled in view today. I have been building race engine for about 20 years and started my youtube channel a little over a year ago. I have been following 2strokestuffing for around 3 years and it great to see what a guy can do in his garage! I have been super impressed with all the skills he has taught himself!! I cant wait to see how his project comes out.
@@EricksonMachinePerformance Same here mate, been a good few years now. My wife just can't understand why I get so pumped when a notification comes through! He's a wealth of knowledge. It's amazing the guy works in a daycare and does this in his own time at home. Kudos to him for sharing his passion and knowledge with the world. The guy deserves to make a living out of it.
Awesome work! Don't worry about the tight spot without the pressure plates. The whole point is to replicate the assembled engine by stressing the casting, the barreling under load is why you had a change in dimensions between no pressure plate and the pressure plates. Looking forward to seeing it run!
It seems counter intuitive; you end up with a less round hole in the free state, but once assembled it should be more round than had you honed in the free state.
You can get that motor rewound and new comutator plates put in. It's not that expensive; there should be a company that specializes in motor rewinding in your nearest big city. Motors are commonly rewound even when they are perfectly fine with more winds of thinner wire or less winds of thicker wire to hit specific demands. In the hobby community people rewind brushless motors for model airplanes and cars themselves all the time .
Many, many years ago I worked with (as far as I know) the first guy ever to try and design a 2 stroke with a supercharger. His mantra was "The more you know, the more you know you don't know." That tenet has served me well over the years and I see the same attitude in you. Winning is simply not losing. Learning is winning all.
2 stroke tuning by Gordon Jennings was my foundation of two stroke knowledge. He made me smarter . And you are making me smarter. Maybe you'll write about what you think when you are all done with the project. Greetings from California
IME, a motor failure like that is due to overload, then stall while current is still applied. The stall causes the commutator to life pads due to overheat.
OMFG! The wooden folding tape measure! I have one of those too! The thing about it being tight when it's a bare cylinder is that's fine, once you bolt it to the block it'll get back to where it should be. If you just adapt the piston to be loose when the cylinder isn't torqued down, you are going to have a super loose sloppy gap once everything is torqued.
“Borderline Ok’ish” has served me well for 59yrs ! It’s the “borderline F’d” that’s bad, you should be fine...🤞 As always great stuff, thanks for sharing.
I am a CNC machinist, the number on the carousel does not line up with the tool number. edit, that motor failure looks like it got very hot, My guess is that it was not designed for large varying load
Hi...After the Honing, you should be measuring the bore with the ‘PLATES BOLTED ON’ you should not be measuring with them off! ....This is why you had a ‘Barrel’ shape when you measured without the plates! When the engine is assembled it will go back to the shape of when the plates were bolted on! Surely this was the idea of the plates in the first instance??? Measure everything & try the piston with the plates fitted! Good luck Dude 🤠👍
I've had the same issue happen with tool changer numbering in my Fanuc. It's a very easy fix, but you NEED the manual. All I had to do was find the parameter for the tool changer position and change it to match. You'll need to get familiar with some common parameters and sequence for changing them. Also, join CNCzone.com. It'll be a slow journey learning from TH-cam. They guys on there have 1000s of years collective experience and are really helpful. Having a forum full of professionals really kicks the running crusher effect in the ass.
I have several NEMA 23 stepper motors, I don`t need all of them, these are from industrial printers, brand: Sanyo Denki, type: 103H7126-5040, DC 2A and 1.8 degrees. They are newer used but went out of our sortiment because the printers had being sitting on shelf to long, so I just picked them out before we throw away these old newer used printers. I also have other NEMA 23 stepper motors, and maybe some NEMA 17, I have to look it up if you need some of them. You can have some of them for free, how many do you need? I can meet you at Bjørkelangen every afternoon, I live at Blaker. Last year, I think it was, I meet you at Biltema at Slitu and say hello.
@@2STROKESTUFFING Den er god den! Jeg har også en god del elektronikk deler, f.eks. strømforsyninger, nesten alt du kan tenke deg av smådeler, dioder, led, motstandere, transistorer etc, det er bare å i fra! Jeg har også liggende noen Arduinoer, jeg kommer ikke til å bruke alle av dem i mitt prosjekt, så hvis du har ett behov eller bare lyst på en av dem, så er det bare å si i fra! Jeg har en av disse nydelige kortene: store.arduino.cc/arduino-mega-2560-rev3 som jeg for tiden ikke har behov for. For enklest å få ett raskt svar fra meg, mail meg på jobb eposten: janhugo@scaleit.no så får du svar i løpet av dagen. Fortsett med den sinnsykt kule prosjektet du jobber med!!!
Og gratis så klart, men jeg gidder bare å kjøre til Bjørkelangen.. ;) Jeg har bodt på Hemnes, det er ca 45 km for meg å kjøre en vei, og nei, jeg gidder ikke å kjøre så langt for å gi bort deler, men du får alt du vil ha hvis du gidder å kjøre til Bjørkelangen. Lag en liste over hva du har lyst på og så skal jeg se om jeg har alle de delene. Hvis du ser på scaleit.no og søker meg opp på scaleit.no/kontakt-oss og Data og serviceavdelingen så finner du tlf nr mitt, det er bare å ringe!
7:05 dunno what material is piston made of but it will expand more than cylinder, also 2piece ring will provide less heat transfer to cylinder walls. -its just what i think, not an expert or anything.. just make sure you calculated/thinked of everything
3d printers belong in corners and filament being fed to printer from a dryer underneath the printer. Takes up minimal space that way. Also a good rule of thumb for me is to have critical stuff in the workspace, meaning I'd store that bike frame in a designated storage area and not have to think about the fact you might use it but not anytime soon everytime you walk by it.
Hello, when using torque plates all measurements must be done with the plates installed for accurate fitment and ring gap. Recheck your cylinder with torque plates installed and make sure you are using the same torque wrench on all fasteners every time. Any gaskets on the head should be used with the plates installed also. All this does make a large difference in ring sealing. Well worth the time it takes. the tightness you are seeing in the middle of the cylinder may disappear with the plates installed. Good luck.
Nice job on the mill! I would to 3 phase motor and vfd. Cheaper and easier to find. Tool changer might just need the holder plate indexing to get the numbers match.
Your wide angle lens makes your two car garage look huge. My first thought was you need a bigger garage, Hahahaha, I know, I have moved my shop 5 times in 10 years and I'm now in a 5000 sqft building I now own and I need more space, or less stuff.
your shop is kind of like mine.. I know where everything is but it is rather a mess.. I made the mistake once and let my wife organize my little shop.. it looked great! everything had a place and everything in ti's place.. it took me over a month to figure out where everything was.. It was a real pain in the butt.. but I never told her that.. she worked hard to make it look nice for me and I am thankful for her.. as for throwing things away.. even at 68 with only a few years left if I throw something away I have held onto for 15 years inevitably I will need it in the next two weeks.. Well all goes well it looks like.. I will stay with your videos and not watch the pro's do it.. I can learn more watching you then the pros at this point.. thanks I talk to much.. carry on!
You need to wash the cylinder super clean before measuring. Even the oil film can make u caliper measure wrong. And the temperature is important. If the cylinder change temprature while hooning it wil screw up the measuring.
@10:00 surely the reason to hone with the plates is that it mimics the cylinder when assembled with the crack & head on so measuring without the plates might be giving you erroneous readings.
be careful how you hold those pistons when drilling & tapping - ie don't crush them out of round. Also i'll shut up now. Very excited to see it running again!
If you don't want to over-hone it but you're worried about the middle pinching, try the feel when it's assembled & torqued down. If it still worries you then how about circulating warm/hot water through the system before you start it?
Using a 3 phase AC motor and a vector drive is the modern alternative to DC motors one of the rather economical brands KCLY will even accept a tach but vector drives are pretty good at holding speed.without a tach.
Love the progress i know its rough but i cannot wait for it to be done! I think i would look alot nicer with some lighter in there some bar lights on the roof maybe
They do distort, especially with varying cylinder temperature. Specialized "at temperature" honing is done in F1 to combat this since piston to bore clearance needs to be kept very tight
In operation, there would be thermal gradients, with the top inner being hottest. This would be difficult to achieve while honing. Then, you would not want to match that to a cold piston dimension. Piston also hotter at top. Suggest calculating change while hot, and compensating for this while measuring and honing cold.
@@jimdale9187 Modern 4 stroke pistons are generally designed with this expansion in mind, featuring a "cam and barrel" shape that becomes near-cylindrical when in operation. If you grab a cold piston and measure the top land and center of the skirt between the thrust points (usually the stated location to measure for bore clearance) there is a significant difference. If you check cylindricity they're also quite ovaled since the pin bosses affect the distortion of the piston during heating. The design minutia in modern engines is fascinating.
.01mm is about a half thou of an inch. You're seeing it everywhere most likely due to temperature difference between heated from honing, to cool on your bench. The bellmouth shape on the bore is typical after removing torque plates. You will probably see a bit more deviation in line with the bolt holes as well. Dont bias the honing if it is round and straight in the torque plates. If it is still bellmouthed in the plates, shorten your honing stroke length. I like to overrun each end of the bore by 1/4 the length of the stones or so, and alternate honing from both ends of the bore to keep taper and out of round under .0002"...thats .005mm I think.
@2STROKE STUFFING 3D printed parts are printed at a high temperature. When the part cools, it contracts. It does not contract pefectly due to non-spherycal geometry- hence the imperfect bore measurements after it cools down. The top face is probably not flat either. It is mechanically flattened when you attach the pressure plate, as you found... It would be very interesting to heat up the part and measure for bore imperfections. If the bore is more round when hot, should you not hone it hot (at least as hot as when the bike is running at maximum operating temperature)? Will honing it cold actually hone it (technically) wrong? If you hone it hot, when you run the engine and heats up, will the metal themically morph, therefore going against your 'cold' honing? Does what I say make any sense?
the treadmill motors can range up to 3.5hp @24vdc so you might find one from an abandoned treadmill..If you were closer to OZ i would send you a couple as I hoard them for my projects..All salvaged from scrap yards and the local tip
I would think since you honed with plates that you would check the piston in the cylinder with the plates also measuring the honed cylinder with the plates
The commutator can be replaced with new one. If the armature winding is not damaged. Using a drill guide with perpendicular up nd down (like pressdrill) movement will help in honing. You should need it.
I see you have a 3 point inside micrometer now. That's good. You say that the honing is leaving the middle tight and the ends larger? This bellmouth condition, caused by the hone, can be fixed by changing the shape of the hone stones. Since the stones are cutting more at the ends of the bore the stones should be shaped in the opposite direction. To do this use a coarse diamond "stone" to abrade away a little bit of the the stones at each end. Now the stones will tend to cut more in the middle than the ends. How much to remove is an iterative process and it depends on what is being honed. However, if too much is removed from the ends the middle part can always be abraded away to correct things.
Yep, this is the idea behind a torque plate. The torque plate simply gives you access to be able to hone the cylinder while it's under the stress that would be caused by the head and crank case.
My workshop is twice the size but i only have a quarter of your actual working space because I hoard engines and wheels half bikes etc. So so hard to dump this stuff.
How are you going to lock the screw that locks the piston parts. Too hot for loctite, peen its end? Hard to remove. I'm sure you have a solution, you have done a fantastic job so far.
if the pistoni fits good with the pressure plates, like if you measure the bore and deem it OK with plates tightened, why did you want the piston to fit without the plates? with plates will be like when the engine is assembled, right? that was the point of the plates? good video man keep it up!
The bit tighter in the middle could be caused by the wobble of the axle that drives your honing bit. Not sure but that is what I would think that would be the problem. Good luck! :-)
Hi. I am absolutely noob and should not be listened to! But if the top of the piston can be removed, why can't you use a ring what is a solid circull/ without a gap? Just a tot. Love what you do!
@@2STROKESTUFFING Thats a great point, but how about compramising cold start compresion for potentially hier compresion whyle full power. I dont really know what you will win with that, but maybe there is something to it. Thanks m8
torque plates are extremely important I ran into that 30 years ago building a antique Harley . I had the barrels bored to 40 thousands over stock. at a famous Harley speed shop. I found a 45thousands taper after I got the barrels back. another thing is temperature of the shop . 68 degrees ferrihight is standard. your shop should be 68 for all machining and casting of pistons barrels ring crank pin all should be one in shops set at 68 ferrihight.
Been watching for awhile now and I’ve always been curious do you have any kind of fire prevention in the shop ? You have sooo much stuff you’ve invested time and money into and with all the chemicals present I was just wondering if you had anything in place to save the shop in the event of a fire
Hey about 2stroke tuning in general what about lightening your flywheel? Cant afford to buy inner rotor ignition and i was thinking about just taking some waight off my flywheel?
That 0.05mm, is that your clearance on the ring groove or the end gap because if it is end gap, that is too tight. I really dislike your set screw perpendicular to the bore. If it backs out you are going to instantly trash your cylinder and maybe lock up. Moving it to the underside of the piston wouldn't be much better, if it backed out it would probably get sucked in to the intake port. I wish you could figure out a way to ditch the set screw and replace its function with a circlip or something that can't back out without breaking.
Clearance in the groove👍 yeah, agree on the set screw issue. When we're past the phase of frequent piston disassembly I could peen over the aluminium behind it to lock it in. Trying to come up with better solutions tho.
@@2STROKESTUFFING just had an idea, probably difficult to pull off but maybe workable. Imagine a 30mm 12 point bolt head with a 25mm 12 point socket cut inside of it, now slice off 1.5mm of it to create a sheet metal lock piece. Make your piston skirt with the bottom of the ring groove, the female threads and then a short 30mm 12 point socket followed by a circlip groove. On the piston it would be piston head, top of ring groove, male threads (with wrist pin hole), then a short 25mm 12 point bolt head. Everything would screw together, then you would put in the lock piece to stop the skirt from backing off, then a circlip will hold the lock up inside the skirt. If the lock piece was made with the inner and outer 12 point surfaces off by 15°, you could adjust your ring clearance by your thread pitch÷24. Of course the dimensions would have to be changed to fit and the lock piece probably has to fit over the connecting rod small end or maybe made in a C shape rather than O shape. Also, a Spirolock might be better than a circlip but possibly a huge pain to install.
@@2STROKESTUFFING is that because of the rings and stuff? Because in a 4stroke engine you typically get around a millimeter of clearance or a half for that 40mm bore
It's NOT tight in the middle...that is the distortion when the Cyl. is bolted on..That is why you use "Honing Plates"!!!..Ck. the clearance with the plates installed and it WON'T be tight in the middle..without plates you would have a large balloon shaped cyl. when installed, which is probably why the issues with the rings developed in the first place..Keep going your getting closer!!!..It took me a year blowing up 8 engines, before I figured out how to run 15 Lbs of oil pressure, 0 valve clearance (to get more valve lift and duration) at 2000 rpm higher then anyone had ever run my engine without snapping piston rods..It's a journey..My engine has 30lbs cranking compression with over 185 lbs compression at full rpm..lasts 12 hours running time between "re-ring" jobs..It still holds the un-official lap time record at Road Atlanta after 39 years!!..👍👍👍🗽🇺🇸
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
A lot of comments already, but if it hasn't been mentioned. When you hone with torque plates, you test the piston with the plates installed, as they are distorted as if the cylinder was installed. Trying the pistons without the torque plates are testing without the deformation of the plates.
👍 First thing I'll do next time I'm out there.
@@2STROKESTUFFING and if possible assemble the torque plates in the same sequence as you will assemble the engine , base plate first then head plate .
this.
I was just going to type this
Agree..
thank you for the shout out! I cant wait to see this engine BRAP!!
Well deserved, it's a great video!
@@2STROKESTUFFING thanks again i cant wait to see this thing BRAP!
@@EricksonMachinePerformance don't be surprised if you see a spike in subscriptions! :D I've found a few gems thanks to 2SS!
@@zxtimmy4 i am very grateful to Alex for sharing my page. That video doubled in view today. I have been building race engine for about 20 years and started my youtube channel a little over a year ago. I have been following 2strokestuffing for around 3 years and it great to see what a guy can do in his garage! I have been super impressed with all the skills he has taught himself!! I cant wait to see how his project comes out.
@@EricksonMachinePerformance Same here mate, been a good few years now. My wife just can't understand why I get so pumped when a notification comes through! He's a wealth of knowledge. It's amazing the guy works in a daycare and does this in his own time at home. Kudos to him for sharing his passion and knowledge with the world. The guy deserves to make a living out of it.
Awesome work! Don't worry about the tight spot without the pressure plates. The whole point is to replicate the assembled engine by stressing the casting, the barreling under load is why you had a change in dimensions between no pressure plate and the pressure plates. Looking forward to seeing it run!
Was just going to make the samme comment, test the piston with the pressure plates installed.
It seems counter intuitive; you end up with a less round hole in the free state, but once assembled it should be more round than had you honed in the free state.
Exactly. Try the piston with the plates on!
Loving the This Old Tony vibes at 5:30
"2STROKESTUFFING posted a video" is the only notification that makes my day.
Hang on to stuff, I am still using things I acquired when I was an apprentice 1961-1966
You can get that motor rewound and new comutator plates put in. It's not that expensive; there should be a company that specializes in motor rewinding in your nearest big city. Motors are commonly rewound even when they are perfectly fine with more winds of thinner wire or less winds of thicker wire to hit specific demands. In the hobby community people rewind brushless motors for model airplanes and cars themselves all the time .
Agree ... that motor rewind will fix the problem ... be sure to replace the bearings!
Huh, I don't think I know of any companies that would have any interest in rebuilding something this small and weird.
@@operator8014 "this small"? Look at RC motors. They are tiny compared to what he has.
@@operator8014 I live in a small town of 20.000 people in central Europe and we have 2 workshops that do this kind of thing just in my small town...
Many, many years ago I worked with (as far as I know) the first guy ever to try and design a 2 stroke with a supercharger. His mantra was "The more you know, the more you know you don't know."
That tenet has served me well over the years and I see the same attitude in you. Winning is simply not losing. Learning is winning all.
I'm so glad they finally arrived, our postal system has really taken a turn for the worse recently
Well they managed to send it to the wrong city over here too...
I build a lot of “Borderline okayish”
😁👍
Would make a great t shirt 😆
I'm usually borderline okayish...
There's nothing wrong with it!
@@knuddelwinzig498 would also make a great shirt
Rings are too tight!
Man, the finish quality on those IKEA parts has really gone down hill in recent years, hasn't it...
😂👍
2 stroke tuning by Gordon Jennings was my foundation of two stroke knowledge.
He made me smarter .
And you are making me smarter.
Maybe you'll write about what you think when you are all done with the project.
Greetings from California
IME, a motor failure like that is due to overload, then stall while current is still applied. The stall causes the commutator to life pads due to overheat.
OMFG! The wooden folding tape measure! I have one of those too! The thing about it being tight when it's a bare cylinder is that's fine, once you bolt it to the block it'll get back to where it should be. If you just adapt the piston to be loose when the cylinder isn't torqued down, you are going to have a super loose sloppy gap once everything is torqued.
7:42 You usually only let it click three times. For consistent measurements.
Thanks for the heads up!
@@2STROKESTUFFING 👍🏻 Of course you'll have to adjust your tool to be at 0 after three clicks too.
"it doesn't see me as it's master, yet... Which is kinda worrying"
Hahaha!! 😂 😂
Besides the oil treatment, don’t forget to treat yourself to Lagavulin.
“Borderline Ok’ish” has served me well for 59yrs !
It’s the “borderline F’d” that’s bad, you should be fine...🤞
As always great stuff, thanks for sharing.
Ah so that is how CNC milling works! you have to become the master over the machine! Quite litteral...
I am a CNC machinist, the number on the carousel does not line up with the tool number.
edit, that motor failure looks like it got very hot, My guess is that it was not designed for large varying load
And you got a nice crosshatch pattern after honing which does help the compression
Is it normal for the mention and image of a book about 2 stroke theory to give you goosebumps and warm fuzzy feelings?? Lol
This rotor is completely reparable. Here in Spain we call the shop were repair this "Bobinadoras" (COILer shop)
Might give it a go and keep as a spare.
Hi...After the Honing, you should be measuring the bore with the ‘PLATES BOLTED ON’
you should not be measuring with them off!
....This is why you had a ‘Barrel’ shape when you measured without the plates!
When the engine is assembled it will go back to the shape of when the plates were bolted on! Surely this was the idea of the plates in the first instance???
Measure everything & try the piston with the plates fitted!
Good luck Dude 🤠👍
👍 Lots of comments about this. Of course, I feel kinda stupid...
I've had the same issue happen with tool changer numbering in my Fanuc. It's a very easy fix, but you NEED the manual.
All I had to do was find the parameter for the tool changer position and change it to match.
You'll need to get familiar with some common parameters and sequence for changing them.
Also, join CNCzone.com. It'll be a slow journey learning from TH-cam. They guys on there have 1000s of years collective experience and are really helpful. Having a forum full of professionals really kicks the running crusher effect in the ass.
I have several NEMA 23 stepper motors, I don`t need all of them, these are from industrial printers, brand: Sanyo Denki, type: 103H7126-5040, DC 2A and 1.8 degrees. They are newer used but went out of our sortiment because the printers had being sitting on shelf to long, so I just picked them out before we throw away these old newer used printers.
I also have other NEMA 23 stepper motors, and maybe some NEMA 17, I have to look it up if you need some of them.
You can have some of them for free, how many do you need?
I can meet you at Bjørkelangen every afternoon, I live at Blaker.
Last year, I think it was, I meet you at Biltema at Slitu and say hello.
👍😁 I'll let you know if I'm in the area!
@@2STROKESTUFFING Den er god den! Jeg har også en god del elektronikk deler, f.eks. strømforsyninger, nesten alt du kan tenke deg av smådeler, dioder, led, motstandere, transistorer etc, det er bare å i fra! Jeg har også liggende noen Arduinoer, jeg kommer ikke til å bruke alle av dem i mitt prosjekt, så hvis du har ett behov eller bare lyst på en av dem, så er det bare å si i fra! Jeg har en av disse nydelige kortene: store.arduino.cc/arduino-mega-2560-rev3 som jeg for tiden ikke har behov for. For enklest å få ett raskt svar fra meg, mail meg på jobb eposten: janhugo@scaleit.no så får du svar i løpet av dagen. Fortsett med den sinnsykt kule prosjektet du jobber med!!!
Og gratis så klart, men jeg gidder bare å kjøre til Bjørkelangen.. ;) Jeg har bodt på Hemnes, det er ca 45 km for meg å kjøre en vei, og nei, jeg gidder ikke å kjøre så langt for å gi bort deler, men du får alt du vil ha hvis du gidder å kjøre til Bjørkelangen. Lag en liste over hva du har lyst på og så skal jeg se om jeg har alle de delene.
Hvis du ser på scaleit.no og søker meg opp på scaleit.no/kontakt-oss og Data og serviceavdelingen så finner du tlf nr mitt, det er bare å ringe!
7:05 dunno what material is piston made of but it will expand more than cylinder, also 2piece ring will provide less heat transfer to cylinder walls. -its just what i think, not an expert or anything.. just make sure you calculated/thinked of everything
Saying stuff like "boarder line okay-ish" shows a true mastery of the language. ;)
😁👍
3d printers belong in corners and filament being fed to printer from a dryer underneath the printer. Takes up minimal space that way.
Also a good rule of thumb for me is to have critical stuff in the workspace, meaning I'd store that bike frame in a designated storage area and not have to think about the fact you might use it but not anytime soon everytime you walk by it.
im so exited about this engine running... i like your solutions for the tasks apearing in the process... i think i wouldnt do any different
Hello, when using torque plates all measurements must be done with the plates installed for accurate fitment and ring gap. Recheck your cylinder with torque plates installed and make sure you are using the same torque wrench on all fasteners every time. Any gaskets on the head should be used with the plates installed also. All this does make a large difference in ring sealing. Well worth the time it takes. the tightness you are seeing in the middle of the cylinder may disappear with the plates installed. Good luck.
👍
Nice job on the mill! I would to 3 phase motor and vfd. Cheaper and easier to find. Tool changer might just need the holder plate indexing to get the numbers match.
cleaning is the most satisfying thing in the garage by far!
You have to test the piston in the cylinder with the honing plates bolted on. That simulates the cylinder bolted to the crankhouse.
Your wide angle lens makes your two car garage look huge. My first thought was you need a bigger garage, Hahahaha, I know, I have moved my shop 5 times in 10 years and I'm now in a 5000 sqft building I now own and I need more space, or less stuff.
your shop is kind of like mine.. I know where everything is but it is rather a mess.. I made the mistake once and let my wife organize my little shop.. it looked great! everything had a place and everything in ti's place.. it took me over a month to figure out where everything was.. It was a real pain in the butt.. but I never told her that.. she worked hard to make it look nice for me and I am thankful for her.. as for throwing things away.. even at 68 with only a few years left if I throw something away I have held onto for 15 years inevitably I will need it in the next two weeks.. Well all goes well it looks like.. I will stay with your videos and not watch the pro's do it.. I can learn more watching you then the pros at this point.. thanks I talk to much.. carry on!
My new technical term “Borderline okayish”...
You need to wash the cylinder super clean before measuring. Even the oil film can make u caliper measure wrong. And the temperature is important. If the cylinder change temprature while hooning it wil screw up the measuring.
👍
@10:00 surely the reason to hone with the plates is that it mimics the cylinder when assembled with the crack & head on so measuring without the plates might be giving you erroneous readings.
👍Yep
never been this early to one of your vids, cant wait to this this engine on a dyno
Maybe some day..
be careful how you hold those pistons when drilling & tapping - ie don't crush them out of round. Also i'll shut up now. Very excited to see it running again!
👍 I'll be careful!
If you don't want to over-hone it but you're worried about the middle pinching, try the feel when it's assembled & torqued down. If it still worries you then how about circulating warm/hot water through the system before you start it?
Using a 3 phase AC motor and a vector drive is the modern alternative to DC motors one of the rather economical brands KCLY will even accept a tach but vector drives are pretty good at holding speed.without a tach.
Love the progress i know its rough but i cannot wait for it to be done! I think i would look alot nicer with some lighter in there some bar lights on the roof maybe
So excited you've entered the cnc age!
Great stuff! I think you need to check the piston to bore fit with the two pressure plates fitted to get a real answer. Just saying!
Thanks! Yep👍
1:45- I’m laughing my butt off. Impact wrench. I adore watching your videos. Thank you for being yourself.
Should you have tensioned the bottom plate as well?
I wonder how much the cylinder distorts with heat. Anyone ever brought one up to temp in an oven and measured the roundness?
They do distort, especially with varying cylinder temperature. Specialized "at temperature" honing is done in F1 to combat this since piston to bore clearance needs to be kept very tight
In operation, there would be thermal gradients, with the top inner being hottest. This would be difficult to achieve while honing. Then, you would not want to match that to a cold piston dimension. Piston also hotter at top. Suggest calculating change while hot, and compensating for this while measuring and honing cold.
@@jimdale9187 Modern 4 stroke pistons are generally designed with this expansion in mind, featuring a "cam and barrel" shape that becomes near-cylindrical when in operation. If you grab a cold piston and measure the top land and center of the skirt between the thrust points (usually the stated location to measure for bore clearance) there is a significant difference. If you check cylindricity they're also quite ovaled since the pin bosses affect the distortion of the piston during heating. The design minutia in modern engines is fascinating.
Spot on Jim! Haven't forgotten about your ISO dyno idea/sketch btw(or rather, I just remembered... 😂) I'll get back to you!
.01mm is about a half thou of an inch. You're seeing it everywhere most likely due to temperature difference between heated from honing, to cool on your bench. The bellmouth shape on the bore is typical after removing torque plates. You will probably see a bit more deviation in line with the bolt holes as well. Dont bias the honing if it is round and straight in the torque plates. If it is still bellmouthed in the plates, shorten your honing stroke length. I like to overrun each end of the bore by 1/4 the length of the stones or so, and alternate honing from both ends of the bore to keep taper and out of round under .0002"...thats .005mm I think.
@2STROKE STUFFING 3D printed parts are printed at a high temperature. When the part cools, it contracts. It does not contract pefectly due to non-spherycal geometry- hence the imperfect bore measurements after it cools down. The top face is probably not flat either. It is mechanically flattened when you attach the pressure plate, as you found...
It would be very interesting to heat up the part and measure for bore imperfections. If the bore is more round when hot, should you not hone it hot (at least as hot as when the bike is running at maximum operating temperature)? Will honing it cold actually hone it (technically) wrong? If you hone it hot, when you run the engine and heats up, will the metal themically morph, therefore going against your 'cold' honing?
Does what I say make any sense?
the treadmill motors can range up to 3.5hp @24vdc so you might find one from an abandoned treadmill..If you were closer to OZ i would send you a couple as I hoard them for my projects..All salvaged from scrap yards and the local tip
240vdc**
I would think since you honed with plates that you would check the piston in the cylinder with the plates also measuring the honed cylinder with the plates
The commutator can be replaced with new one. If the armature winding is not damaged. Using a drill guide with perpendicular up nd down (like pressdrill) movement will help in honing. You should need it.
I could easily watch this for hours 👍😀
Really enjoying voyage with you 👌👌👌
I see you have a 3 point inside micrometer now. That's good. You say that the honing is leaving the middle tight and the ends larger? This bellmouth condition, caused by the hone, can be fixed by changing the shape of the hone stones. Since the stones are cutting more at the ends of the bore the stones should be shaped in the opposite direction. To do this use a coarse diamond "stone" to abrade away a little bit of the the stones at each end. Now the stones will tend to cut more in the middle than the ends. How much to remove is an iterative process and it depends on what is being honed. However, if too much is removed from the ends the middle part can always be abraded away to correct things.
The putting on the cylinder walks has got to result in a compression loss. Possibly contaminated mixture? Like an EGR valve on a four stroke?
That fisheye lens is dominating......getting carsick 🤣
'I'm pretty sure I told it to write 'subscribe'..." lol
I'm puzzled by all the casting pits. how you can get good compression and ring seal with all the voids in the cylinder walls
Testing seems to indicate it's no problem, not conclusive yet. Got another cylinder that is being sleeved, + the 3d printed one that is spotless.
Sweet can’t wait to see that when it’s finished
Most likely someone let the brushes wear down to nothing and that's what tore up the armature.
Well done!
Test fit the piston with the honing plates in place.
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would having the head bolted on and cylinder to crankcase have same effect as the honing plates being in place? maybe . good videos. bless you
Yep, this is the idea behind a torque plate. The torque plate simply gives you access to be able to hone the cylinder while it's under the stress that would be caused by the head and crank case.
Love the videos keep it up
I’m guessing when motor is bolted together and up to temp the bore is perfect even no taper etc
5:40... lol... so, you want robot overlords? 'Cause this is how you get robot overlords...
My workshop is twice the size but i only have a quarter of your actual working space because I hoard engines and wheels half bikes etc. So so hard to dump this stuff.
@7:39 did you clean up that oil in the bore or measure an oil film oversize on both sides of the cylinder?
also love this guy.
How are you going to lock the screw that locks the piston parts. Too hot for loctite, peen its end? Hard to remove. I'm sure you have a solution, you have done a fantastic job so far.
if the pistoni fits good with the pressure plates, like if you measure the bore and deem it OK with plates tightened, why did you want the piston to fit without the plates? with plates will be like when the engine is assembled, right? that was the point of the plates? good video man keep it up!
The bit tighter in the middle could be caused by the wobble of the axle that drives your honing bit. Not sure but that is what I would think that would be the problem.
Good luck! :-)
New video, new donation!
😁
Hi. I am absolutely noob and should not be listened to! But if the top of the piston can be removed, why can't you use a ring what is a solid circull/ without a gap? Just a tot. Love what you do!
I see your point, but with heat expansion it would bind.
@@2STROKESTUFFING Thats a great point, but how about compramising cold start compresion for potentially hier compresion whyle full power. I dont really know what you will win with that, but maybe there is something to it. Thanks m8
torque plates are extremely important I ran into that 30 years ago building a antique Harley . I had the barrels bored to 40 thousands over stock. at a famous Harley speed shop.
I found a 45thousands taper after I got the barrels back.
another thing is temperature of the shop . 68 degrees ferrihight is standard. your shop should be 68 for all machining and casting of pistons barrels ring crank pin all should be one in shops set at 68 ferrihight.
Thats Fahrenheit. Just saying.
Oh the "joys" of predictive text! 😁
Test the pistons with the pressure plates mounted.
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Mum says that's better with the tidying by the machine but then said come back now 🙂🎃🏍
Been watching for awhile now and I’ve always been curious do you have any kind of fire prevention in the shop ? You have sooo much stuff you’ve invested time and money into and with all the chemicals present I was just wondering if you had anything in place to save the shop in the event of a fire
Couple of extinguishers, that's all.
@@2STROKESTUFFING better than nothing 💪🏻
Maybe a hose pipe that is handy should you need it?
No hand hewn axe work on the shelf? Looks nice anyhow.
Hey about 2stroke tuning in general what about lightening your flywheel? Cant afford to buy inner rotor ignition and i was thinking about just taking some waight off my flywheel?
That's your next t-shirt borderline okay-ish
Good cross-hash this time!
That 0.05mm, is that your clearance on the ring groove or the end gap because if it is end gap, that is too tight.
I really dislike your set screw perpendicular to the bore. If it backs out you are going to instantly trash your cylinder and maybe lock up. Moving it to the underside of the piston wouldn't be much better, if it backed out it would probably get sucked in to the intake port. I wish you could figure out a way to ditch the set screw and replace its function with a circlip or something that can't back out without breaking.
Clearance in the groove👍 yeah, agree on the set screw issue. When we're past the phase of frequent piston disassembly I could peen over the aluminium behind it to lock it in. Trying to come up with better solutions tho.
@@2STROKESTUFFING just had an idea, probably difficult to pull off but maybe workable.
Imagine a 30mm 12 point bolt head with a 25mm 12 point socket cut inside of it, now slice off 1.5mm of it to create a sheet metal lock piece. Make your piston skirt with the bottom of the ring groove, the female threads and then a short 30mm 12 point socket followed by a circlip groove. On the piston it would be piston head, top of ring groove, male threads (with wrist pin hole), then a short 25mm 12 point bolt head.
Everything would screw together, then you would put in the lock piece to stop the skirt from backing off, then a circlip will hold the lock up inside the skirt.
If the lock piece was made with the inner and outer 12 point surfaces off by 15°, you could adjust your ring clearance by your thread pitch÷24.
Of course the dimensions would have to be changed to fit and the lock piece probably has to fit over the connecting rod small end or maybe made in a C shape rather than O shape.
Also, a Spirolock might be better than a circlip but possibly a huge pain to install.
Are you going to measure the displacement of the cylinder, just wondering if your engine will be checked if you break the record
Will be checked. It's a hair below 50cc.
Would hate it to be 50.1cc or something ,would be gutted for you ,cant wait for the first dyno run really enjoying your progress
is it me or does your bore liner seemed to have some pitting from casting? it looks that way from your video....
Yep, porosity.
if the plate changes the id what happens when you put the head on? are the head bolts pulling out on the center of the bore?
Armature is scrap, arching between commutator causes big heat. It lifts and junk
Sub...sonic well i didn't see that one coming XD
Send that copper to BigstackD
Hi..do u sell too?
is it any concern that i can see the whole thing flexing downwards a good 2-3mm when your plunging the bit into the bore?
No worries, doesn't matter when honning.
@@2STROKESTUFFING many thanks for the reply
wait, you have different Transfer Port Roof heights? what would that be for?
I though you were about to do a This old Tony
Awesomeness
Guilty for hording bikes, parts of bikes and fairings of the early 80! You never know...
that piston clearance sounds real real tight to me.. or is it so mucht tighter in general with a two-stroke?
For ~40mm bore 0.05mm is pretty much the norm.
@@2STROKESTUFFING is that because of the rings and stuff? Because in a 4stroke engine you typically get around a millimeter of clearance or a half for that 40mm bore
@@2STROKESTUFFING for a piston port maybe, for a reed I would open it up some more
It's NOT tight in the middle...that is the distortion when the Cyl. is bolted on..That is why you use "Honing Plates"!!!..Ck. the clearance with the plates installed and it WON'T be tight in the middle..without plates you would have a large balloon shaped cyl. when installed, which is probably why the issues with the rings developed in the first place..Keep going your getting closer!!!..It took me a year blowing up 8 engines, before I figured out how to run 15 Lbs of oil pressure, 0 valve clearance (to get more valve lift and duration) at 2000 rpm higher then anyone had ever run my engine without snapping piston rods..It's a journey..My engine has 30lbs cranking compression with over 185 lbs compression at full rpm..lasts 12 hours running time between "re-ring" jobs..It still holds the un-official lap time record at Road Atlanta after 39 years!!..👍👍👍🗽🇺🇸
Bores don't distort inwards with torque plates.
Tool number vs pocket number . Fyi don’t always match up .