Brompton's Latest Joke: The 12 Speed Gear System (2.2024)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
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#brompton12speed #bromptontitaniumbike #bromptone-bike #biking #bromptonbike #titaniumbike #electricbike
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Chapters:
0:00 12 Speed Setup
2:46 Gear Charts
9:29 Tern
12:11 Chain Wheel Upgrades - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Sturmey Archer is owned by Sunrace, the Taiwan company that makes the 4 speed derailleurs for P and T lines
You are correct. I will make a correction about this issue in the next video.
We aim for accuracy, could you tell us what figure(s) you do not agree with in our graphic ( at 03:00 )? We will implement necessary correction(s) in the next release if applicable.
Thanks for the comment. I will go into numbers in depth in the next video after taking precise measurements of my setup and comparing it to the numbers published by you as well as Brompton. Thanks very much for doing the video in the first place.
You should have named the channel in the video l. Your argumentation hinges on the work that pam and gilbert have been doing. Just mentioning the video description is too little credit in my opinion
Edit - that has been addressed in the follow up. thank you
@@HolgerNestmann I should have mentioned them in the first video and apologized for that mistake in the second (th-cam.com/video/3vWDbpnIuTI/w-d-xo.html) Links to their work have been provided in all three videos. I recommend that you watch them all.
@@SmallWheelWonder
Non sono d'accordo né sul fatto che in salita, sulla Bromton P line elettrica 12 speed, le marce basse non siano necessarie, né sul fatto che, superati i 15 miglia/orari, visto che l'assistenza elettrica si disattiva, le marce alte non siano necessarie.
I motivi per cui non sono d'accordo:
1) se si guasta l'assistenza elettrica, in salita, grazie alle marce basse, hai la possibilità di procedere muscolarmente;
2) oltre i 15 miglia/orari, una volta disattivata l'assistenza elettrica, le marce alte servono per poter pedalare muscolarmente fino a 30 miglia/orari in discese con pendenze del 3-5%.
3) semplice specificazione: una Bromton P line elettrica non pesa 40 libbre, bensì 35 libbre circa: ed una bici di 35 libbre, con il cambio 12 speed, la pedali muscolarmente sia in salita che in discesa, anche senza assistenza elettrica.
Conclusione: molto bene ha fatto l'azienda ad installare il cambio 12 speed anche sulla Bromton elettrica: perché permette all'utente di avere un'elettrica pedalabile anche solo muscolarmente.
Chi compra una Bromton P line 12 speed elettrica compra due bici in una: un'elettrica ed una muscolare.
Would have preferred if Brompton offered an 8 or higher speed Sturmey Archer IGH with a new shifter - that would address their touring base and compete with conversions to Rohloff or Alfine hubs.
Me too. Plus the 2 speed derailleur is better than the 4 for various reasons - one of which is robustness to poor weather conditions.
Agree. An 8 speed IGH would have been great.
I don’t interpret Brompton’s introduction of the 12 speed setup as some sort of admission that the 4 speed derailleur setup is a failure. The 4 speed derailleur setup offers similar gearing as the 3 speed IGH setup without the weight penalty.
The people who bought the 4 speed T Line knew exactly what they were buying and presumably will have assured themselves that the gearing was adequate before they bought it. If they didn’t do so, they’d only have themselves to blame. These people can always buy the parts required to “upgrade” their bike once they became available.
I do agree with you though that the 12 speed setup is inelegant. A wider range IGH with either one or two sprockets at the back, or a wider range cassette with no IGH at all, would have been better solutions depending on how important weight is.
Don't underestimate the ignorance of the average customer. A lot of people who don't even know what a chain ring is spent 5K on the titanium frame only to find that it neither climbs nor sprints. Oh well....
@@SmallWheelWonder Absolutely. Brompton has been 90% marketing and 10% innovation since around 2004. A very good bike at the heart, but a lot of optional crap on top now. The margins were never that great for them, so they've done well to drag out their patent set for so long. The marketing trickery has kept them afloat, as did the cycle to work scheme in the UK, which meant state subsidised (50%) cycling up to a maximum of £1000. Their bikes went from £650 to £1000 pretty much overnight. Let's see how the luxury nature of their brand, which they have built, survives the next ten years as general poverty starts to really bite. I wish them luck.
@@SmallWheelWonder
Non sono d'accordo né sul fatto che in salita, sulla Bromton P line elettrica 12 speed, le marce basse non siano necessarie, né sul fatto che, superati i 15 miglia/orari, visto che l'assistenza elettrica si disattiva, le marce alte non siano necessarie.
I motivi per cui non sono daccordo:
1) se si guasta l'assistenza elettrica, in salita, grazie alle marce basse, hai la possibilità di procedere muscolarmente;
2) oltre i 15 miglia/orari, una volta disattivata l'assistenza elettrica, le marce alte servono per poter pedalare muscolarmente a 30 miglia/ orari in discese con pendenze del 3-5%.
3) semplice specificazione: una Bromton P line elettrica non pesa 40 libbre, bensì 35 libbre circa: ed una bici di 35 libbre, con il 12 speed, la pedali muscolarmente sia in salita che in discesa, anche senza assistenza elettrica.
Conclusione: molto bene ha fatto l'azienda ad installare il cambio 12 speed anche sulla Bromton elettrica: perché permette all'utente di avere un'elettrica pedalabile anche solo muscolarmente.
All the suggestions of how Brompton could have done things are interesting but are missing two crucial aspects, which are unique to the way Bromptons fold:
* When folding the rear wheel under the frame, the chain wraps around the chainring. A front derailleur cage gets in the way and results in your chain often falling from the chainring. I have done this exact mod to a P line (33/50 crankset), and this kinda works but definitely would not be a sellable product.
* Again when folding, the Bottom bracket to rear axe distance drastically changes, this is why Brompton needs this very long chain tensioner. Its most important job is to take up all that slack when folding the bike. A standard rear derailleur such as what is on the Tern is absolutely incapable of doing this.
Other hubs also require a wider dropout to fit. All these things are just consequences of the design priority of Brompton: the most compact fold possible while maintaining a long enough wheelbase and a nice ride when unfolded.
I personally really like the newish 4 speed system, I find it absolutely perfect for going around the city, but I do agree that a faster gear would be nice. On my 6 speed I find that the gaps between gears are too big, especially between 2- and 2+ and 2+ and 3-. I find the 3+ almost useless.
That said, I find it strange that they offer this new gearing option on the T/P line which to me are supposed to be as light as possible for flat-ish city riding. Same thing on the electric, the fast gears are usable, but you will be sweating, and the low gears are not really needed cause the motor is here to help you out. It would be a perfect replacement for the 6 speed C line though, filling up the gaps between gears and giving you a lower gear for savage hills. The 100+ gear inch gears are useless to most people though, but that is easily traded for even easier gears by fitting a smaller chainring!
Good comment. As I mentioned earlier, I expected a redesign of the rear triangle with the titanium series.
i considerd buying the 12 speed wheel as i had upgraded my A line to a P line. think altogether i have spent £2500 including the bike. I have bought a prolite crank and 48t with a 38t and am using them as a double crank with a 22t rear sprocket. it works great. only downside is that i have to move the chain manually which takes about 5 seconds and also my chain is waxed so no greasy hands.
I have a modified 3x3 9 Speed Brompton, and a 451 wheel 10-42 11 speed (built with Hope RS4 SRAM XT hub) Mini Velo, in both cases the gear inches span 30~110... The 349 wheel can't reach 100 gear inches even with 10 teeth cog + the maximum 58T chainring Brompton support. Do we agree that the small wheels (14,16,18 inchces) is really what's unqiue about folding bike? If so without internal hub, the gear range can never be satisfied.
Yes, the internal hub is key.
I don't trust it...I want a 142mm Titanium rear triangle with 12mm smart Tru Axle so I can use the "Classified" Urban Rear Hub!
The primary aim of a Brompton Bike is to be portable but practically useable as a geared bike. If you expect it to perform like a traditional geared road bike then your asking too much .
This may be true of the steel frame, but the launch of the titanium bikes was an entrance into high performance territory... without gears ⚙️ to match.
Lighter weight is not a claim to increased performance @@SmallWheelWonder
@@peterwillson1355 i agree. I borrowed a friend's steel Brompron, then months later another friend's titanium. The difference was stunning, but nothing to do with road performance. It's all about the carrying. If you never carry, never get on trains, never climb stairs, then stick with the steel. But if you don't do those things, why have a brompton in the first place?
Internal hub with belt drive or external 9,10,11 or 12 speeds.
AMEN!
Great and informative video. Does H&H make rear cogs for Brompton. With a single large chainring and lightweight 6 speed, widely spaced cogs, it seems this would be ideal? Correct me if I'm wrong.
You can get better rear cogs, but working on the chainwheel is far easier and more powerful. The H&H chainwheel is the bomb.
I keep wondering, if I were to get a T-Line, and only use a single front chainring and four speed rear cogs, how large would the front chainring have to be if I wanted to cruise at a comfortable pace of 20 mph in 3rd gear with a maximum speed of 30 mph in 4th gear? Perhaps too this isn't possible with a four speed. Maybe with a single chainring up front I'd have to expand the gears in the rear to 7 or 9?
No way you will do 30 MPH without a custom 70 or 80 tooth chainring if you don't have a hub gear.
@@SmallWheelWonder What about 20 mph? Single chainring up front, a Rohloff hub in the back?
I use brommie+ mod on my 6-speed brompton to become a 12-speed brompton. 40T chain ring + BWR/12-15-17-21 freewheel. I'm very satisfied with this setup.
Mods are where the fun really begins ;-)
I love my Brompton. It’s great.
It opens a lot of doors with its compactness, and you can tune it to high Heaven.
no one here hates their Brompton just want better gears, chains, seat post sleeves, too small peddles, a change to the triangle size ( my heel hits the frame when cycling fast or uphill, seat adjustment so that seat can move forwards for better leg position I am 6'2" tall, improved front light if they supply them still, a shock absorber somewhere in the seat pillar / seat, I think that's enough for now! good luck too all.
Why they do not built in a shimano alfine 11 with belt drive, would that not be a great solution for most problems?
Belt drive is not flexible enough to fold properly.
@@mackirkpatrick3997kinetics in Glasgow offer belt drive conversations
@@mackirkpatrick3997 huh? The chains is kept in tension even while folded. Also.... a belt isn't flexible enough? Do you know what flexible means?
@@ultrastoat3298 There do exist cautions not to too tightly bend bicycle drive belts. Research for detailed information.
@@ultrastoat3298 The chain is able to bend well in both directions, in and out. The belt is meant to bend in ( look at the throw arm of the derailleur).
Due to the folding mechanism on the Brompton some kind of tensioning that allows the overall length to seemingly change is needed. This tensioning is currently achieved by using the in/out flexibility of the chain. A belt tensioner would most likely be possible, but requires investment into development & testing ...
I assume that is what happened.
"The 4-speed gears... is just not satisfying most people". Agree and disagree with this statement. 4 speed Brompton rider here and 4 speed (with 56t chainring) is plenty enough for me as I don't need to tackle any steep climbs. I did change from stock 11,13,15,18 to 11,13, _17_, _21_ cogs. That provided a wider gear ratio, without needing to replace any other components, or create any operational issues. Brompton could and should have offered those 4 gears out of the box. Several of the options you'd listed messes with the fold e.g. the smaller chain on the H&H dual chainring causes the chain to strike the rear triangle during folding.
Your customization is similar to the options I am talking about. You should be able to crank out 120 gear inches ;-) The dual chainring will fold, but you have to shift over to the larger ring before folding... a small sacrifice.
I just road a brompton for the first time last month at REI. There's at least 3 brompton dealers in my area. One dealer has an c-line and a a-line on the floor. I'm considering getting the a-line. Do you recommend the a-line?
Thanks
What do you need a bicycle for?
Don’t buy an A line. Go straight to C line as a minimum.
@@jameswilliams3046 depends what you need. The 3 speed system is quite adequate for casual riding in the city or on flat trails etc.
Great breakdown, thanks!! Visible gear charts were great. Another +1 for me leaning towards an A Line. Wonder if a double or triple crankset coukd be added with the 3-spd hub
There is a superb double chainring by H&H you should check out.
Brompton is the best folder you can bike , Tern Verge X11 ( or Birdy) is the better bike you can fold.
I do have both Brompton Chap 3 and Tetn x11! I will beat Many cyclist with Tern that bike is like Rocket! Bigger wheels of course make difference! But if I have to choose between two! Brompton would be my choice! I travel job related 6-7 months a year and cary Brompton everywhere!! Tern os bit clumsy!! Just my opinion! Every trip I go thinking which one to take! But Brompton wins!
Any reason why you prefer dual chainring over ATS drive?
Cost and weight.
My 4 speed T Line has always been great but I missed a lower gear. The new 12 speed solves that problem and is fabulous. I love mine, it is only 19 pounds 13 ounces.
So the hub does add 2.5 LBs.
I bought an M3L in 2001. I still use it daily. The gearing is fine for city use. It has had lots of modifications over the years; mostly with better c-type brake calipers and saddles. Latterly I fitted a Grin 500w electric kit to it. They're good bikes, and I owe my mobility to them. There is still nothing else to touch them for usability in conjunction with other forms of transport.
Grin rules!
Brompton management is ruled by fear not innovation… brompton users have always tweaked their gearing like this. They basically took those ideas. I wonder of they will ever do bigger internal hub with a belt drive. Again, nothing new but it would be nice.
I bought a 2023 Brompton C line with 6 speed SA gearing. I installed a Swytch kit and I did 100km Cancer charity fund raising with no problem. I averaged 22km per hour during the 5-1/2 hours of riding. Last weekend I did 80km with average speed of 25.6 kph with moderate to hard hill climb. I think 6 speed is the best gearing, and a 50T Oval ring from Absolute black will be nice on a Titanium frame.
at 4:20 you disregard one important point. The 6 speed uses a hub with wider gear ratio. Compared to the 3 speed that. BWR for the wide. BSR for the 'standard' range
Do you have the numbers for those two hubs?
@@SmallWheelWonder A quick google show brommieplus as a good source. In percentages the bsr is 75/100/133. The bwr is 64/100/157. They assign numbers to different sprocket and chainring combos
I've never understood how Bromptons are so popular. Especially given they cost several thousand. They cant even get basic stuff like gearing right. I will take my Tern Verge X11 over any Brompton any day. It floats up any hill. Is efficient fast. Stable and stiff like a full sized bike. And is a work of art to look at. If I am going to spend 2 plus grand on a bike. The X11 is what I expect. Not a bike that looks like a bad idea. And will kill you on a steep hill. And handles badly on rough roads. With poor stability. Brompton basically charge you thousands for a compact fold. Beyond that the bike leaves alot to be desired..
Dealers, and parts supply. I can't get a non electric Tern bike even if I want to. Tern website redirects to local dealers who only carry the high margin ebikes and nothing else, so one is left with taking a chance on web shopping hope the site is honest and nothing breaks during shipping because you will not find any local spares any time soon.
Buy whatever you like. But give that to other people too. The brompton folds much smaller and transports more elegantly. But I give you the gearing being sub par, but thats just one part of the bike
That's a crucial part of the bike if you live where I live with 12% plus grades all over the place. You will be walking your Brompton. Or killing yourself to get up them.
@@BadByte
Of course you can I can find 3 outlets online to buy the X11 right now. I'm not talking about any other TERN bike. Nothing compares. If you are going to buy a Tern you buy the BEST. Models lower than the X11 are rubbish.
The X11 is one bike to rule THEM ALL. And you only need to get it right ONCE. Tern got it right TWICE. With the X20 and X11. But the X11 is the KING. I've had mine for 7 years. Ridden over 100,000 miles. Saved over £25,000 in travel expenses. And have never had to change anything but tires. Chains and a few cassettes. The brakes and 451 wheelset last forever on this thing. The frame is as robust and stiff as the day I bought it. Its built to last a lifetime. And owns the road. I've sped past roadies when I've had my weetabix. And they don't like it. When a small bike does that.
And I'm 60 years old and weigh 90kg. A young fitter man would be even faster......
@@fender1000100 I really like the Tern X11 and I would seriously consider it as a non-electric folder, for sure. You have definitely got my attention!!
Pinion Drive 😄
th-cam.com/video/MRUSGt3OWIU/w-d-xo.html
Well done, and agree. I'm all about simplicity.
I sold my trifold!!! Bought a Dahon Helios! Been biking for w decades and the Dahon Helios if my best bike yet!
🤣😅😂
I have many issues with this video. Not sure why I'm pointing them out... bored during my time off I guess?
1. "Satisfying most people"... my commute (where I see hundreds of Bromptons a week) suggests this is likely wrong and should be replaced with "satisfying me and a couple of loud people with specific needs". The vast majority of Brompton owners ride in cities and they are perfectly happy with the 4 speed gearing. Hell, on my commute I see lots of people with just single speed Bromptons! Additionally the 12 speed is a small weight impact (about a kilo) and primarily targeted at a subset of touring people who carry heavy stuff anyway.
2. "20mph limit". What? I can do 45kmh on my T Line with stock derailleur on the flat. And going fast with those bad brakes is a bad idea anyway, in my opinion.
3. Even though I've fully replaced my 4 speed stock derailleur with a custom 7 speed and even though I climb 20% hills with it I rarely use my 25 and 28 gears... So maybe 11-18 is actually quite good in practice for most environments?
4. Rohloff and Alfine are also heavy completely going against your complaint elsewhere (Brompton 3 speed is about 0.8kg, rohloff is about 2kg). They also don't fit (although I personally think Brompton should create a wide asymmetric rear triangle that does fit them and why they don't do this seems weird to me)
5. It doesn't matter the gears are overlapping. That's not how it's intended. Just like in a triple the point is "sets of gears", Inner chainring was steep hills, middle light riding, large fast. The issue here is more that it's really confusing for non-expert end users but the 12 speed isn't aimed at those as you can clearly see from the marketing.
6. Tern is a huge bike when folded. It's not comparable. People put their Bromptons under train seats, under their desks at work, carry them in shops etc. Terns they park outside. Not the same.
7. Max gear on stock is 18T but can easily be modded to 5 speed 11-21. You personally (given the speeds you claim) could happily do some steep hills with that.
8. As someone who built the first dual up front conversion for the T (see my Reddit) I can tell you it's a bad experience. It creates a lot of problems such as chain jamming and folding due to the considerably larger amount of chain slack in the extremes. It also adds tuning and maintenance complexity and a decent amount of weight.
9. Increasing the chainring on the front on the T with a third party solution kills the chainline which prevents more gears on the rear.
Look when it comes to Brompton drivetrain I'm the first to complain and do so a lot (but for none of reasons you say) plus have customised mine with everything from making my own 2x solution, adding a 5th cog to stock to make a 11-21 5 speed to third party solutions like RUHM to now creating my own custom drivetrain... so it's not like I don't wan tthem to change. But this video was written without much research or direct experience.
Finally, do keep in mind; there's more than meets the eye when it comes to Bromptons. Having torn them apart, redesigned my own parts etc there's a lot of finely interacting apparently-weird-looking features that make sense as a whole. Not to mention there's cost, manufacturing and patent limitations that require specific solutions.
At least we agree that the triangle should have been redesigned long ago. My 148 gear inch electric Brompton has not been beaten by any human powered upright bike, but they never stop trying ;-)
@@SmallWheelWonder Yeah, I just don't get why they keep that damn symmetric narrow triangle. If they changed that they'd unlock more gears, wider tyres, better brakes...There is no good reason. Len's titanium trifold proves it.
what a total piece of crap! Not only a range of just 402 for 12 gears, but also worst of both worlds. What is wrong with an 8-Speed Alfine, or, if you really want a trouble-free solution with high power efficiency, but weight to the rear hub which, however, is covered by the large hole in your money pocket, a Rohloff?
😁 😂 🤣 🤓 😁 😂 🤣
Brompton should just have a normal 7gear derailer. The only reason to get a Brompton is the superior and more compact folding, but since they don't have patent on that anymore, it could serious damage their business.
Wouldn’t this channel be most fitting if named Small Mind Wonder?………
You may want to look at the earliest videos -- especially the humiliation playlist -- to understand why the title is what it is.
Get the right bike and don't expect a folding bike for crissake.
I love this video. This is exactly what I laughed at, hearing about Brompton's "12" speeds, but I couldn't articulate this much detail.
The overlap and poor ratios were obvious. As you say, even a slightly bigger cassette (and maybe another chainring) would have been a far more effective and lighter, albeit conventional, solution. Alternative would be one of those very expensive hubs for touring.
It should have been banned in the industry to equate a multiplication of gears with a supposed 1x equivalent in marketing (as common as it is/was). You never get that many functional ratios.
Brompton swallowing their pride and integrating Shimano Alfine 8 speed would make much more sense. A 54/16-cog setup would be a Brompton 6-speed killer with a far better user interface.
They never will.
Am happy my C line M6L fire coral. Used it for commuting to work. If i want speed, i switch to my 12 speed Birdy with sram force axs. Best of both world in folding depend on my need. 😂
You are lucky to have both.
@@SmallWheelWonder you shouldn't have sold off the Birdy. It's good to switch around.
Some day I'll get a new frame.
totally agree, it is not logic to have external & internal gear system together when the shifting habit pattern is totally opposite
It's not a sin criticizing Brompton crazy attempts, great video.
I think it’s brilliant. Been waiting for this for many many years. Already bought one.
Enjoy!
....while I agree with the redundancy of 12 gears... The hub has still some advantages (changing gears in the city) and 8 kgr is still a pretty low weight, impossible to reach with no-titanium frames... I find the ideal compromise range to be the 6-gears: while you might need sometimes to go to the lowest 2 transmitions (steep-slow ways), one rarely has/ can or ever need to sustain speeds over 35 kmh for longer uninterrupted segments... So the 4 (derailler) gears are definitely unsufficient... but I also dont see any ideal way to solve this without the hub... Generally a Brompton will never be as efficient as a Tern, cause they go more for (folded) compactness and standardization!
An improved cassette or hub could have achieved the goal with far less complexity and weight, but they adopted outdated tech.
@@SmallWheelWonder ...simply putting an existing hub behind the existing cassette is obviously the minimally invasive solution from supply/ manufacturing/ pricing and marketing point of view... Surely they will offer a new cassette (or a new hub) with time according to their market requirements... But, at the moment I think that those 4-gear-kassette was the much bigger (initial) sin as the 12-kombo (corresponds to a standard C-Line POV complexity)!
Yes, the four speed cassette was the bomb, and they are now scrambling.
In order to assure the continued production of the narrow gear hubs used by Brompton, they bought the now mostly outdated Sturmey Archer Company, but also Shimano makes narrow hubs for Brompton.
You are able to buy an Asian made, 7 speed, chain gear hub/wheel and shifter, which has a single changer and fitting a standard Brompton back frame. And which is a better and lighter functioning system than the internal gears!! Finn. Denmark
This sounds like the best solution. Are they easy to find?
Why? Why not use Shimano 8 and 11 speed Alfine hub gears? I have the Kinetics Alfine 11 conversion and it works fine. Folds as easily when you get used to it. No heavier. Big range from MTB low to keeping with the big bikes in top. Done 50 mile day trips on it up and down dales. Can be tuned by changing chain rings between 33 tooth and 50 tooth. Tensioner copes ok. Needs a redesigned rear triangle (kinetic) which also enables a rear disc brake. My tourer cost me £1500, £500 for the M3 bas bike and £1000 for the conversion kit with built in rack. A lot xheaper than the '12 speed' horror.
But they refuse to implement those changes.
I have Chapter 3 and Tern X11 both are Amazing bikes! Tern is Rocket will beat any Brompton guy! But if I have to choose between two! Brompton would be my choice! Its just overall better!!
I find X11 clumsy when folded and Disc brakes are too much for such a small bike! Don't like the breaks at all!
If you’re using a derailleur why not put 11 or 12 gears on a regular hub??
Yes
16” wheel though, how low do you want the derailleur hanger to be 😂?
@@ahkl77
Lower than my Civic on 20s
I was surprised to learn that low hanging of the dérailleur of a 12-speed cassette is not that great a problem, apparently...(?) But the severe dishing of a 16" wheel that would be required would remove much of its strength.
As they are, Brompton wheels are exceptionally strong... but then, they HAVE to be, in order to withstand the inevitable encounters with potholes!
Admittedly, the rapid response of a Brompton allows you to "flick" the bike around a pothole, even at the last moment... but you cannot avoid them all.
I presume you are more interested in clicks than being balanced in your comments. The suitability of a gearing range and closeness of gears depend on what terrain you cycle and what type of cyclist you are. The 12 speed will suit those who tour or do longer leisure rides in undulating/ hilly train. The 4 speed derailleur only is more for flattish town riding. Titanium frames have little bearing on speed....but they are easier to pick up. If you are really concerned about weight, then for most people you can loose much more weight by just eating less....a be healthier for it.
You are confirming what I say in the video.
The Brompton line up is a bit of a mess. Personally I'd be happy with 4 decently spaced gears on a derailleur, versus the 3-spd BWR hub + 2-spd derailleur I have now. 12 gears seems ridiculous for a folding bicycle. Also a 12 speed chain will be less robust.
Not ridiculous at all. Do you not remember the days bikes used to have 27 speeds.
My incredible Tern Verge X11. Has 11 speeds 10--42. And there isnt a hill I can't float up.
The problem bromptons have always had is that theyre terrible on steep hills. I've seen brompton owners having to dismount. And walk their bikes up steep hills many a time.
Now Brompton are trying to address this. Their two greatest lines the P LINE (Approx 10kg). And the T LINE (Approx 8KG) Can get away with 4 gear systems. Because they are light bikes. The Titanium T line being as light as many pro road bikes.
But its no fun try to haul a 25lb plus bike up a 15% gradient when your first gear only has an 18 cog ring. Hence the reason Brompton have been rallying to address this..
Why do you think "the twelve-speed chain is less robust"?
Note: It isn't a 12-speed chain. It is a four-speed chain.
Brompton’s latest joke - implying you think there are others. Instead of whinging about Brompton and giving the impression you know best, are a fountain of knowledge and have all the answers, why not just buy another brand of bike which meets all your requirements?
I have owned and reviewed many bikes. There is a bit more focus on the Brompton these days because of the recent release of their 12 gear system.
Any one who is talking about making custom cog cassettes and gear inches probably knows a thing or two that you might not.
I agree I went fro 3 speed to 6 and found that the top speed was not as good as the 3 speed, I asked Brom for longer chains and larger cranks and they said it was not possible!
My book proves that it is possible.
Just get a Tiagra 4700 short-cage derailleur with a flat-bar shifter. Pair it with your 1x crank of choice and you get a system that's cheap, reliable, durable, and way lighter than this overengineered waste of money. And 10 real gears is better than this complicated 3x4 setup. Grab some old 10-speed Ultegra cassettes if you want to go even lighter.
It’s more complicated than your suggestion. Chain wrap in order to fold the bike for starters. Believe me, I’ve experimented with various road components.
Why do you even want a brompton?
🤣 😂 🤣 😂 🤣 😂 🤣 😂 🤣 😂
i want a brompton because it is my only choice living in Kowloon of Hong Kong. Like London i guess, the city is so crowded. in Hong Kong Kowloon we have no bike lane at all, no where to park or lock any bike. I need to bring it into restaurant under the table and bring it into the office of my work place.
brompton is heavy and perform worse to many bike, for sure. but it is good enough to ride in the road with other vehicles in it, and it is sturdy enough to be safe.
for similar price and better performance, the compact form is sacrificed, which make it not viable in Kowloon, Hong Kong.
@@osmondwong508 Sounds to me like you need a kick scooter.
@@SmallWheelWonder i would tell you that:
i travel 8 km to 16 km daily to work, with uphills , down hills, share main road with other vehicle like buses cars and trucks, and need to get into office and restaurant as well.
1. anything electric, bike or scooter , is illegal in hong kong
2. going up hill in a scooter is a pain in the ass
3. assuming non-electric, riding a brompton is much faster than any scooter push by one leg once every few second
4. for comfort, any 16 inch bike will be much more comfortable than all the scooter with any kind of shock absorb. scooter has at max 6 inch wheels.
5. you cannot really ride a scooter in the main road together with other vehicle, but for bike it is ok if you know how to drive at the first place
in conclusion, your scooter suggestion is at best very uninformed, or to put it more directly, entirely bull shit according to my practical real life need.
A 1X 12 speed system would have been much better
But selling the hub-derailleur combo is probably way more profitable than a simple cassette upgrade would be.
Difficult to implement on 16 inch wheels. Your derailer would be scraping the ground. No I've never understood why Brompton have an 18 cog as their ist gear. Sure you cannot get a 42 cog on such a small bike. But 7 speeds. 11 to 28 should be possible..
No. A single cassette of 12 sprockets is practically impossible in a 16" wheel, without extreme dishing of the wheel and/or re-engineering the rear triangle to almost double its width at the axle, which itself would make the compact triple fold impossible.
That is why putting the gears INSIDE the hub, instead of ALONGSIDE the hub, is a *masterly solution* and NOT a problem at all!
Belt drive is another thing that is problematic on a Brompton, because the carbon belt will be fractured if it is ever folded back on itself.
Seriously, I find it rather tiresome that people criticise the decisions Brompton's engineers make in developing the machine, when such criticisms do not take into account the special requirements that are necessary in a very small-wheel bike, that ALSO FOLDS very small.
@@effylevenOh so sorry to spoil your day 😁