We scored all cylinders at 50:1 in a commercial environment. We switched to 40:1 at the advice of an old mechanic and we are now at one full decade without 1 engine seizure. Never seen a fouled plug either. We do remove spark arrestor screen since concrete can’t catch on fire.
I run my machines quite hard so I do 40:1 in the 50:1 machines as well, I also tune the carbs accordingly and none of my machines have had any problems in the several years that I’ve owned them, i do clean the carbon out of the exhaust ports but surprisingly I don’t get a lot of build up due to running my machines hot.
@@evanchapmanfanman run 2 tanks in each machine w Echo Red Armour 2strke oil at 32 : 1 and it will completely decarbonise the engines and they will run like new . The oil is kind of exspensive but well worth it for cleaning the saws out .
I used to tune snowmobiles in the 80's and 90's. I found the manufacturer sets up the snowmobiles to run oil rich to prevent the owner from blowing them up on break in. The idea was after 500 miles, you take it to the dealer and let them readjust the oil injectors to a lesser oil setting. The manual even stated that. Well, most guys just continued to run them oil rich. Fouling plugs was the number one issue. The second was carboned up exhaust reeds and Rotary valves, especially on Skidoo. It kept me busy as far as repairs. Pretty much every snowmobile I ever repaired was oil rich.
@@scottfirman im from the southern sweltering heat . For long gruelinng hrs , heat + heat + long hrs = friction . Never seen a snow mobile except pictures how many cc and cylinders ? Would love to find 1 of those motors . Are they still plentiful up morth ?
@@sundial6919 Yes, everywhere up here. I used to restore vintage sleds, then got into repairs and racing setups. Our winters are not as plentiful as the days of those vintage snowmobiles. I got out of it in 2013 when I had a Cancer Surgery that went bad and damaged key muscles in my left side. Chronic pain and unable to lift and move them anymore. Small price to pay I guess for being Cancer free for now.
I run mine a little rich. I do the 40:1 mix and then I ADD a extra tablespoon of oil in there been doing it over 20years that way and not a single issue. I run new and old saws Homelite xl12 all the way up to a new echo 590 or holzfforma g372xp . Same mix in all 42 saws I own
It makes so much sense! You guys do a phenomenal job of explaining the science. There are so many so-called gurus, particularly in the chainsaw world, who are still preaching 32 to 1 and 16 to 1. I trust you guys over everybody else! 💪💪💪
32 to 1 - ounce to the quart. Simple if you only need to mix a little fuel, like for a weed eater. Of course, this was (many) years ago, and I turned out both high and low needles on the carb, going by what I had been taught by an old saw mechanic. Why do I get the impression these people are AmSpoil fiends - run negligible oil…
I have run 20:1 in all my saws for 20 plus years and never had an engine go bad. its easy to mix, 1 quart of oil to 5 gallons of gas. i have seen saws burn up with 50:1 mix
Ive run 32:1 with Amsoil Saber for ten years in a 1979 Lawn Boy 7268, 1973 McCulloch PM55, a 2010 Weedeater PB25 and a 2011 Stihl FS45. Never once had to clean the exhaust port, carb or change a fouled plug. Yes I get some spooge in the muffler of the Lawn Boy and blower, but I can live with that.
I have a 30+ year old string trimmer that calls for 32:1. Still works fine. Recent years I've been running my chainsaws and string trimmers at 32:1 as well - doesn't appear to be excessive carbon on the pistons or the spark arrestor screens.
There was quite some technical progress regarding 2 cycle engine oil's in past decades. With modern fully synthetic oils (e.g. from stihl/castrol) 50:1 is the right mixture. 30 or 40 years ago the oils were different and operators had to mix it 25:1. I never had any issues with a 50:1 mixture using stihl HP from Castrol. Condition of course is a proper carb adjustment. Best wishes from Germany
A mechanic or technician may suggest sticking to the manufacturer's recommended premix ratio but speak to a 'true' 2-stroke tuner (saws, dirtbikes, race karts) and pretty much all will agree than more is better. Improved ring seal & compression (=more power) plus better component life. Fouling the plug, plugging the spark arrestor screen is primarily 'tuning' related, rather than the premix ratio. You can run 20:1 and have a spotless exhaust when tuned and operated correctly.
Have a Stihl 041AV I bought new in 1977 that recommends a 25:1. I have always used this mixture, and it still runs perfectly to this day. I also don't think it has a spark arrestor.
I always ran 40:1-45:1. I empty a small bottle of 2 stroke oil in 5 liters of gaz. I then proceed to add a small shot of oil in the canister. I have used my equipment very very hard and my pistons/cylinders all look like brand new.
I say 32:1. I have an Echo leaf blower my late brother bought new back in the 1980s that I still use occasionally. Runs just fine now. I know that oils are much better than they use to be, but 50:1 is to lean for me. The Only lube the engine gets is what you put in it. One of my neighbors bought a new string trimmer and ran 50:1 as recommended. It lasted to one month past warranty and locked up. She used the recommended type of oil that is pre measured. .
Engineered fuel is the way to go. Running a string trimmer one or two days a week for 20 minutes doesn't burn up too much fuel. The price is well worth it for the shelf life it offers.
@@boots7859 Lucky for me I don't have to go that route. There's a fuel distributor about 20 minutes from where I live that sells ethanol free gas. From what I can tell most people don't have that luxury.
@@boots7859 watch "steves small engine saloon" he recently did a video on this issue and the ethanol seems to not be the only or main issue with small engines. pretty interesting.
Carbon buildup, oil fouling, spooge and smokey exhaust are usually the result of poor jetting. Jet appropriately for your gas-oil ratio and you won't have any of those problems. More oil (up to a certain point) equals better engine protection and better ring seal.
I remember running nitro 2 stroke engines in gas rc cars and at full throttle there was supposed to be a light stream of oil smoke coming from the exhaust. Engine was revved up running high rpm. There was two air fuel mixture screws. One for idle and lower rpm and one for mid rpm and full throttle. If the car was idling and you hit the trigger on the remote for the gas and a puff of smoke came out and the car was sluggish from the get off the idle mixture was too rich. If you're full throttle and no smoke at all the open throttle mixture screw was too lean and the motor could overheat and seize. Then there was the sound and performance of the motor. If the idle screw mixture was too lean the engine would have too high of an idle. So you would adjust it accordingly between the two parameters. Same with the full throttle screw mixture. It's been awhile since I tuned in a nitro glow engine which are not gasoline engines. But a 2 stroke engine is a 2 stroke engine. They're really not that hard to learn how to operate. Now on a chainsaw or a 2 stroke dirt bike even it might be a little more advanced with the carburetor tuning. But no matter what if you're just using gasoline with too much 2 stroke oil mixed into it. It's going to smoke no matter what. But I always thought when a 2 stroke engine is running full throttle and high rpm there should be a light stream of oil smoke coming from the exhaust. If it's too rich it'll affect the performance of the motor and there's a loss of power. Starving a 2 stroke engine of lubrication will most likely occur in the high rpm operation. That's where it's the most critical. I bought an Echo blower and it's a 50:1 fuel oil mixture 2 stroke. The carburetor is probably already close to being set from the manufacturer. But i was wondering if 40:1 would be better. At high rpm operation there's absolutely no light stream of smoke. Another thing too is the throttle response is sluggish when cold and warming up. I'm wondering if they richened it up because of the 50:1 oil fuel mixture? The choke is manual. I probably should just leave it alone.
Have been running 50to1 in my stihl 044 for 23years and my saw runs as good or better than new with NO problems. The trouble with alot of people is they over think with these small engines. Good Video Guys !
My thoughts exactly Thomas Bates. Most of my Stihl saws are nearly 20 years old and I always use high quality oil at 50:1. I do keep my saws tuned and running properly and have never burned or scored a piston.
I maintain a 40-acre estate and operate - and repair - 12 pieces of Stihl equipment, including five chainsaws, two brush cutters and two backpack blowers. For 25 years I have been using nothing but Stihl oil in a 50:1 mix as specified by the company. After hundreds and hundreds of hours of use not ONE machine has required any engine work whatsoever besides carburetor replacement. I think I will stick with 50:1.
You already know that answer by having to clean a clogged Exhaust full of oil or an oil contaminated plug. Here's one worse. Dumping oil straight into the fuel tank and trying to " Mix" it in the tank. I remember having to blow out straight two cycle oil out of the carburetor. Talk about plugged up mess. I know guys that take the spark arrestor out because it is completely clogged. I have also seen the top of the piston full of carbon from burned on oil. I am sure you have seen everything I have. I constantly refer guys to invest in a Ratio Right measuring cup to mix their fuel. I used to give them away to save me from having to fix gummed up chain saws. Good Video!
I have never doubled up on the oil for my lawn equipment and that is great advice and it is better to stay with the standards of the company producing your equipment to be safe.
My 2 stroke mower's printed manual actually specifed 25:1. Then they put in a little errata note that said the EPA regulations had required that 2T engines must run at 50:1 to reduce emissions.. I recently just bought a NEW 18" chain saw. There is no printed manual. The PDF manual I downloaded again specifies 25:1. 25:1 is true standard for air cooled two stroke engines. 50:1 is just regulations by ignorant politicians.
I agree 100%. Some of my friends run 32:1, thinking it will make their saw’s last longer. I run nothing but 50:1, Echo Red Armor. I also do not mix gas. In other word, part my gas and part premix. If Inam forced to use a premix, I dump the remaining fuel from the tank and use strictly the premix. Mixing gas can cause problems. I recommend using only JASO certified FD oils at 50:1 with PNE gas.
I use 3 oz of oil per gallon of gas for around a 42.6:1 mix in all my outdoor power equipment. It keeps it simple for mixing 1 gallon or 5 gallons of pemix, and have never had an oiling issue.
Seems that oil/gas ratios have changed over the years from 16:1-50:1 now. I'm thinking that is for several reasons. Oil technology, materials quality, and environmental restraints. Today's synthetic oils are far superior to 50s-80s 2 cycle oil, but 50:1 is burning up engines all the time. Done that myself. Now with a new Echo CS620PW 27" and Holzfforma G660 PRO 36" I run VP Racing 2 cycle in straight hitest at 40:1 and tune them slightly rich so the saw 4 strokes when letting up from a healthy cut. The pistons and cylinders look polished, exhaust port clean and plug chocolate. I'm not frying anymore engines if I can help it. Sorry for a little more exhaust emissions and sorry to dealers who earn their living selling more saws. Just kidding. I'm not sorry.
I have a McCulloch chainsaw that is 34 years old and still starts on the first or second pull. I have used the recommended oil/gas mixture and it still runs great. I am going to put a new chain on it next week and I am sure it will run at least another 10 years.
I have a 54 year old McCulloch, still runs good. I run 1-2 tanks of gas thru it a year, just got a wood stove so plan to run it more. Grandpa's old saw and he cut probably 80-100 cords of wood with it maybe more.
Don and Dave, from my experience if you put so much oil in those small engines, you won't do it for long cause they won't work right, you'll get bogging down and all kinds of trouble. But years ago when Yamaha came out with the 100/1 mix in their outboard motors a lot of us old school guys didn't like such a high ratio so we mixed 50/1 like we did on the older outboard motors like Johnson. They worked fine cause it was on much bigger engines than chainsaws. Nice video guys
So if too much oil carbons up an engine please explain how snowmobiles can run for thousands of miles without doing that? Oil injection has helped for sure as the pump varies the ratio but at or near full throttle ( where saws run most of the time) the oil mixture is at 20 to 1 ratio. Back in the old days the oil was mixed at sometime 15 to 1 and yes they gummed up but that was the oil chemistry which is not like todays with low ash. Also it has been proven on the dyno that more oil equals more hp right up to 10 to 1 mixture. Do you need to run more fuel to compensate? Yes but only by a small amount. Cycle world has done these tests on the dyno as well as many others. Kevin Cameron was the tech advisor at Cycle world and that man knows his stuff! By the way I run all premix machines at 32 to 1 and have for many years without any issues
Didn’t mention atomization. It was explained to me long ago by a much more knowledgeable tech than I, that if you run too much oil, the oil becomes too thick in the fuel, and can’t atomize as well as it’s intended at the carburetor Venturi, so it runs the machine lean and you likely will also have intake side cylinder/piston washing. You would also notice a VERY oily air filter, as well as oil pooling in the intake boot. I used to see that a lot in redmax EB6200/7000/7001 backpacks, as well as PB-4600/46T/46HT/410/403/60T/60HT/601/603/6000/650/751H/751T/755, etc. Echos. All the echos that utilized that top-mounted air cleaner design, even the beautiful PB-400E blower would see this sort of thing and it led to the demise of many. If the bottle says mix with one gallon, that’s what you do. If you don’t know how to adjust a carburetor properly, or are going to disregard the emissions settings because you bought an underpowered machine for you application, and you think by running it rich will give you THAT MUCH more power, it won’t, and you’ll just pollute more. If you need a specific machine, buy it, don’t buy the wrong tool for the job. If you can’t afford it, use credit if you know you’ll pay it off quickly, or simply be patient. Take care of your machine and they’ll take care of you.
Using excess oil can also cause a stuck ring from carbon buildup (usually on exhaust side). Also can cause it to run lean but that can be tuned out. Your better off to run factory suggested mix and just tune the carb slightly fat.
Most wear problems with saws is due to improper tuning ( to lean) or cutting with a dull chain. In other words, operator error. I set up all of my two cycle stuff to run slightly rich at high rpm and never cut with a dull chain. I have enough saws to put down a saw with a dull chain and grab another saw with a sharp chain. I carry usually four saws to a cutting job. I start out with my MS 360 and then go to my MS 440 or H 372 if I need them. I keep a smaller saw in case I need it. That saw is my MS 250 or MS 180 at the current time. I run 50:1 Stihl Ultra with PNE gas and stabilizer in most of my equipment. In vintage saws I run JASO FD oil with PNE gas and stabilizer. These old saws, like my MAC PM610 and Homelite XL 12 need better lubrication.
I've just switched back to mixing my own gas for 2-strokes and I want to get the best longevity out of the equipment I can. 40:1 is what the old manual said so thats what I run.
I bought an MS170 8 or 9 years ago, I have only ever run 25:1, It has never blocked the screen or choked up the plug (still has original plug) My other saws also are run on 25:1, brush cutters can be a different case although in my bigger ones i run 25:1. Over 25 years I have rebuild many demo saws with scored pistons from running 50:1. Weather can play a big part too in the way the different oils perform and burn, some oils have an extremely high flashpoint so it doesn't burn off as well. I wore out my 330 homelite , when I stripped it down piston and bore were spotless only the rig was worn out, it only ever run 25:1. If you only start the saw and do 2 cuts 25:1 is probably not a good choice, it needs to get to proper operating temp.
I agree it can be very confusing and I recently took apart a engine that was very clean and very well lubed and looked new inside compared to what I know the tool has been through I guess the fuel evaporates and leaves the oil ???????
It's an old two-stroke motorcycle racer you absolutely do not want to run to Rich and oil mixture a rich oil mixture causes a lean fuel mixture too much oil in the two strokes that we raced caused Pistons to burn holes in the top of them
Right. Because it increases the viscosity of the premix, which will cause less fuel flow through the jets/needles, and a lean condition. Too much oil will also cause hotter combustion which can lead to engine knock. Funny how people think more oil is better.
Don, I have run Stihl Ultra for quite a few years but I hat the ash it leaves in a saw, so last year I switched to Echo Red Armor but it also has side effects. Red .armor, because it has such a high flashpoint, stays in the saw, giving less smoke and greater lubricity. My non deco saws got so hard to pull over I could not crank them. My ms 251 felt like I was pulling over an ms 880 without using the deco valve. I did not want to go back to Ultra but there are not a lot of good choices, so I decided to use some Stihl HP. I made up some HP at 50:1 and I like it. It smells better than that stinking Ultra. It will probably take a couple of tanks f HP to burn out all that Red Armor out of my saws. I have learned how to get them running - put them indirect sunlight until the saw temp gets close to 90 degrees. Then, you can pull them over and get them running.
Depends on how bad the mosquitoes are ;p I run em ritch but they also generally get a good workout when they come out to play so the excess tends to burn off. I've found that the user and job has a big roll to play in mixing. Sorry I didn't get out for that ripping chain this weekend, I had a truck break down lol Cheers fella!
Question, my gas scooter calls for 25:1, i believe that would be the break in period. After I can go 32:1 or 40:1. Now if I switch to 32:1 or 40:1 do I have to manually adjust the carburetor idle and fuel mix screws? If I wanted to do a weeks test for each mix and check the plugs for fouling, and do comparisons on temperatures with different fuel mix, isn't it important to adjust the carburetor each time to the correct fuel mix after it warms up??
Great info. I fix my neighbors backpack blower and small machines when needed. She told me that 4 of their blowers wouldn't start, I recently worked on 3 of them and they were running fine. Talking to her about them, the last thing she said that she might have put too much oil in the gas. She actually put 200 ml of oil to 5 liters of gas.(50:1) Double the oil needed. I drained all the machines and added new fuel with the proper amount of oil. Took around 10 pulls but they finally started. They all blew smoke for about 30 seconds but cleared up and ran good.
Ok so I goofed today mixing oil. I use leaf blower to clear fluffy snow from cars, drive and sidewalks. Plan to mix 5 .2 oz to 45:1. Add 1.8 gallons to can at ethanol free pump. I shut pump of at $1.80 instead of gallons. Instead of trying to figure math to correct it dump mistake in my truck and return 20 minutes and start over. Ugh
I always mix 1:45 for my newer chainsaws but my old chainsaws (Stihl Contra and so on) get 1:30 becouse the cylinder and piston have bigger tolerances from the factory. Back then the parts could not get produced that accurate like today. These "gaps" between cylinder and piston need to be filled with oil, so that there occours no friction. It sounds like that things back then had lower quality, but it is not really the case. My friend who works in the engine development of a company told me this.
Meh, not really true. Engine tolerances for cheap 2 stroke haven't changed much in decades, and piston rings! Rather the EPA made them switch to lower ratios and oil is better than it used to be so the leaner ratios cause less wear, but still more wear than ratios of yesteryear. The thing to keep in mind is the old equipment spec'd for 1:30 probably already has some wear. If you run the newer equipment with the lean ration, eventually you may want to make it a little richer too.
I tried watching one of your videos this morning. I have watched your videos for years. This morning a commercial screen popped up that took 1/2 the screen that I could not x out of. If this continues I am sorry today that I will not stay subscribed. Thanks for all the help and entertainment over the years.
Good content but why would you address this relatively clueless question about arbitrarily doubling oil rather than a more sane middle ground about using conventional oil mix ratios of yesteryear instead of the now very lean 45:1 or 50:1? The question to me is would you rather have equipment that's not worn out, then can clean it and keep using it, or would you rather it's worn out and no amount of cleaning will help? Anyway, if you run too rich an oil mix you'll often suffer performance, usually the max RPM drops, bogs down easier, but at the same time a worn out engine doesn't perform so well either. Middle ground! I run 35:1 on older equipment and 40:1 on newer with synthetic ashless/low-ash oil. Biggest issue is after a few hundred hours, the carb does need pulled off and exhaust port cleaned. IMO it's almost better to go ahead and pull the carb off every now and then, or else you wait too long and you've got a seized bolt and the engine thread get shredded trying to remove it. Spark plug fouling, meh the plug should be changed once in a while anyway.
My 10yo ms290 developed problems running 40:1. No muffler blockage. I finally switched back to 50:1 and rebuilt the carburetor and the machine ran like new. I don't see any upside to running an oil enriched gas ratio. Today's saws will run, as prescribed, for 10, 20 or more years, cutting 10 cords a year. Caveat -- do other maintenance, i.e. take care of the machine.
I’ve used marine 2 stroke oil for years, it does come with a catch. U have to go in and clean the carbon out of the exhaust port every now and then. Usually once every 2 years (I do this anyway cuz I’m weird) I take the head off, clean it and replace the head bolts and gasket if there is one. I’ve actually noticed though my saws make more power with it, and my scoring is minimal. Works great mixed 50/50 with synthetic for breakin. I always make sure to agitate the tank with the mixed oils though because they do tend to separate out just a little bit when mixed together. I should also mention during the off season all of my saws get stored and ran on aspen 2 alkalyte fuel. Hope this helps anyone having to penny pinch without destroying their equipment. You probably don’t have to replace the head bolts, but I like to just because it’s a habit from building 351 Windsor’s and other vehicle engines.
I won't comment on the marine oil, but using fully synth mixed or otherwise for break in seems very counter intuitive. Synthetic oils are far more slippery than standard oils, ergo the engine does not bed in. I run cars or what ever on regular oils initially to let the machine marks etc get nibbed off, and then for long life use fully synthetic.
@@boots7859 do you guys know what castor oil is? At 1 point in time all 2 stroke oil was castor oil. The oil I use for my outboards is marine grade castor oil. I’ve been running the stuff for ages. All I can tell you is my experience with it. And you’re correct about the fully synthetic being slicker, but I used it to bed in rings a little slower and get more heat cycles before they really sat down. I noticed higher compression in my 461s that I’d done that to. I just broke in my 661 the same way, thing will try to break your arm if you don’t mean it when u pull it. (Decomp valve plugged as well)
Going through the comments I am just now realizing why everyone has issues with it. DISCLAIMER: if you do not run the balls off your equipment and get it hot, don’t do what I do. You will seriously hate life. As a rule of thumb, if it isn’t getting warm enough to start running slightly lean after heavy use, DO NOT USE CASTOR OIL. My saws stay buried in extreme conditions, and I’m anal about taking care of them as they are how I make my living. If I go a day without having to enriching the high needle about an eighth turn at some point, it was an easy day. I burn anywhere from about 2.5 to 3.5 gallons in a day bucking logs or milling. Most people don’t use their equipment like that.
@@garrettstevensen2467 how often/how hard do you run your engines? And what are your experiences with carbon build up? For me it’s always been manageable. But I’ve come to the understanding I’m more of a special uses category compared to most.
If you did not jet to the new 25-1 it could seize the motor from being lean. Chainsaws run hard for short periods and then they idle for a while. I have seen race engines running very hard of 50 or 60 CC run as low as 16-1. These engine may make as high as 25 or more horse power. They can have a carbon build up on the exhaust port. I often ran 36-1 with turbo blue for years with 440 Stihl saws. We used maxima 727 oil. It was made for racing. The new ones I run 50-1 with no problems.
Donny my name is Ian Grant I live in Jamaica I operated chainsaw and I repair chainsaw many times I buy 2-stroke oil different from the Stihl brand and I've come across some very thin two-stroke oil where I have to use more than the amount
As a regular user of the 2T yard tools, I'll go 50:1 > 45:1 and keep extra exhaust gaskets for servicing the mufflers. Thanks, nothing consistent about 2 stroke oil ratios.
I completely agree with everything that was said here, much smart wisdom was spoken here, and that my friends is why I think that Don and Dave, are a 100% kickass product. Thanks guys :)
I think a major contributing factor to excess fouling, apart from too much oil, is leaving 2-stroke engines at idle for too long especially on chainsaws. I see guys make some limbing and clearing cuts then leave the saw idling for 5-10 minutes while they clear the crud and then another burst of cuts followed by more idling. The machine is idling more than it’s cutting and that does a 2-stroke no good at all IMO.
Love your videos, I stumbled upon your channel by accident a year ago(looking for something else). Would like to see, how to fix a bar oil seal. I have a old Homelite 150. Was my father's. The bar oil leaks out faster than I add. Probably not worth the cost, but it has lots of personal memories. Would like to restore it in the future.
There are other good brand of 2-stroke oil on the market oil that I prefer to use differently from the Stihl two-stroke oil Excel Universal 2-stroke oil it works very good for me lately I cannot get any
I have a related L & T mixture screw question, I rebuilt the carburetor and set float and all gaskets with kit set properly. I Put a new cylinder and jug from husqavarna into the chainsaw, as it is a 1998 350 saw, And my exhaust screen is clear and my crank seals and boot are not leaking yet it idols best when the idle screw is turned in all the way, And I set the H & L screw with a tachometer, The saw accelerates to response from the throttle very well, But what is wrong my idol? H &L screws are not bent yet it needs to go in all the way to idle And if I backed out the L screw it would stall?
Commented on this before but I had a seizure because of to much oil once myself, It led to excess carbon that hardened and destroyed the piston. If it's smoking always double check your mixing procedure. I've seen black rivers of gunk flowing from mufflers and people ask me what's wrong with it... hahaha nothings wrong with it just the owner.
My Dad has a old Lawn Boy two-stroke mower that he swears by that runs 32:1. It runs great, the only issue I have with it is smelling like I've been at the racetrack all day after mowing.
40:1 Tru-Fuel in my 1975ish Poulan S25DA. 2-cycle engines really haven't changed much. 40:1 with a modern synthetic is fine. Any richer fuel mix isn't necessary. Tune your carb correctly. Take your machine to a small engine mechanic like Dave, or Don to tune it for you.
50:1 for saws 75c and smaller. If they are ported. Run them at 40:1. Saws 80cc and larger 33:1 one of many mistakes people make, is they don't have the system retuned after break-in. New equipment comes dangerously lean from the factory to appease the epa. If you double the oil you are leaning out the mix more oil less fuel.
@@Sensei948 the higher oil ratio is for saw with greater bearing loads. The saws you listed will be happy in the 40:1 range. If they are ported 35:1 My 3120 demands 33 to 32:1.
It will but if you wait till the engine has a hard time running, it will be a chore to keep it running long enough to clean the carb out and it's not a substitute for draining fuel for storage, nor will it eliminate the need for an eventual carb cleaning or replacement, just extend the interval. Note that if you use a top tier fuel, especially ethanol free, fresh fuel in a timely fashion, then the detergents already in it are doing the job so you don't need fuel system cleaner.
The main reason engines run now at 50 : 1 is political mandate from the EU . Oil technology has not improved that much but engine technology has or had to and any of that old two-stroke engine should still run on its recommended ratio of 32 : 1 or even 25 : 1. Those Chinese cloned cylinders and pistons should also be run closer to 32 : 1 as their metallurgy is certainly not to European standards.
Yes & the unburned oil sits in top of the piston & varnishes up.the piston rings, piston & cylinder which is why you also find that the piston rings end up stuck in the ring lands. The same thing happens in a 4 stroke engine if you don't change the oil regularly enough !
Huh? No, any oil that gets past the piston rings is going to either get flushed out with the next stroke of fuel intake, or turn to carbon if it sticks around. Stuck piston rings are more often a sign of engine overheat to the point of oil breakdown, or low quality oil exacerbates it. Please THINK! If you have unburned oil that is a lubricant and would do the exact opposite, keep piston rings that would otherwise stick, to stay free. That's one of the purposes of the oil in the first place. However if you meant that piston blow-by carbonizes the oil and seizes the ring in the piston, sure that happens, but happens more from using a lean ratio so you have more wear to create the gap for the blow-by.
That MS170 would run like garbage with 25:1 because the oil does displace fuel in mix and those saws do not have adjustable carbs to compensate for the extra oil so the engine could run hot, add to that the extra carbon build up and a plugged spark arrestor to keep the heat from escaping like it should and you will have a cooked saw in no time.
I wonder why the chinese holzforma farmertec designer knockoff chainsaws recommend 25:1 mix? I figured it was due to inferior materials in the engine construction, but 40:1 should be fine with good oil...I use red armour.
I've noticed that most of the time most of the videos the equipment being worked on is stihl especially chainsaw. Is it just cause it's popular up there. I ask because I been thinking of getting a chainsaw but I was thinking, do they break that easily 🤔 Great video by the way 👍
Two things: 1 Every chainsaw has consumable parts like bar, chain, clutch and the world is full of nonmechanical chainsaw users. 2. Even a great saw like Stihl is not idiot-proof. Buy a Stihl, treat it right, do regular maintenance and enjoy it for the rest of your life.
If you hs e an older machine with an adjustable low and high speed needle you can easily tune it for 25:1 or even 20:1. For the non adjustable carburetors you could go ever so slightly lean though were talking only 2% difference. In the long run this could have a detrimental effect on the engine if it's already tuned lean to meed emissions regulations.
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We scored all cylinders at 50:1 in a commercial environment. We switched to 40:1 at the advice of an old mechanic and we are now at one full decade without 1 engine seizure. Never seen a fouled plug either. We do remove spark arrestor screen since concrete can’t catch on fire.
I run my machines quite hard so I do 40:1 in the 50:1 machines as well, I also tune the carbs accordingly and none of my machines have had any problems in the several years that I’ve owned them, i do clean the carbon out of the exhaust ports but surprisingly I don’t get a lot of build up due to running my machines hot.
@@evanchapmanfanman run 2 tanks in each machine w Echo Red Armour 2strke oil at 32 : 1 and it will completely decarbonise the engines and they will run like new . The oil is kind of exspensive but well worth it for cleaning the saws out .
I used to tune snowmobiles in the 80's and 90's. I found the manufacturer sets up the snowmobiles to run oil rich to prevent the owner from blowing them up on break in. The idea was after 500 miles, you take it to the dealer and let them readjust the oil injectors to a lesser oil setting. The manual even stated that. Well, most guys just continued to run them oil rich. Fouling plugs was the number one issue. The second was carboned up exhaust reeds and Rotary valves, especially on Skidoo. It kept me busy as far as repairs. Pretty much every snowmobile I ever repaired was oil rich.
@@scottfirman im from the southern sweltering heat . For long gruelinng hrs , heat + heat + long hrs = friction . Never seen a snow mobile except pictures how many cc and cylinders ? Would love to find 1 of those motors . Are they still plentiful up morth ?
@@sundial6919 Yes, everywhere up here. I used to restore vintage sleds, then got into repairs and racing setups. Our winters are not as plentiful as the days of those vintage snowmobiles. I got out of it in 2013 when I had a Cancer Surgery that went bad and damaged key muscles in my left side. Chronic pain and unable to lift and move them anymore. Small price to pay I guess for being Cancer free for now.
I run mine a little rich. I do the 40:1 mix and then I ADD a extra tablespoon of oil in there been doing it over 20years that way and not a single issue.
I run new and old saws
Homelite xl12 all the way up to a new echo 590 or holzfforma g372xp . Same mix in all 42 saws I own
It makes so much sense! You guys do a phenomenal job of explaining the science. There are so many so-called gurus, particularly in the chainsaw world, who are still preaching 32 to 1 and 16 to 1. I trust you guys over everybody else! 💪💪💪
thanks!
Interesting, I see 40:1 being a popular recommendation, I run 36:1, why? Because it’s easy to mix.
32 to 1 - ounce to the quart. Simple if you only need to mix a little fuel, like for a weed eater.
Of course, this was (many) years ago, and I turned out both high and low needles on the carb, going by what I had been taught by an old saw mechanic.
Why do I get the impression these people are AmSpoil fiends - run negligible oil…
@@donyboy73 Huswarna xp oil 2t ok oil in cheinsaw Echo 7310,sthil391 ms 4,5/1 mixs ?
Agreed! I always run 45:1 in my Stihl’s. Not hard to do here in Canada. 4.5L per bottle instead of 5L
I've always ran 45:1 and my old 77 model Stihl 041still runs.
I have run 20:1 in all my saws for 20 plus years and never had an engine go bad. its easy to mix, 1 quart of oil to 5 gallons of gas. i have seen saws burn up with 50:1 mix
👍👍
Thats rich,don't u have carbon build up
There was a time when the average oil/gas mix was 16/1. I guess i'm the only one old enough to remember this!
Ive run 32:1 with Amsoil Saber for ten years in a 1979 Lawn Boy 7268, 1973 McCulloch PM55, a 2010 Weedeater PB25 and a 2011 Stihl FS45. Never once had to clean the exhaust port, carb or change a fouled plug. Yes I get some spooge in the muffler of the Lawn Boy and blower, but I can live with that.
This is such a great channel, between you and Steve’s small engine Saloon and ChicKanic I have really learned a lot…..Thanks!!!!
I have a 30+ year old string trimmer that calls for 32:1. Still works fine. Recent years I've been running my chainsaws and string trimmers at 32:1 as well - doesn't appear to be excessive carbon on the pistons or the spark arrestor screens.
go 1/32 . dont listen to these utube people. they know nothing
There was quite some technical progress regarding 2 cycle engine oil's in past decades. With modern fully synthetic oils (e.g. from stihl/castrol) 50:1 is the right mixture. 30 or 40 years ago the oils were different and operators had to mix it 25:1.
I never had any issues with a 50:1 mixture using stihl HP from Castrol. Condition of course is a proper carb adjustment.
Best wishes from Germany
A mechanic or technician may suggest sticking to the manufacturer's recommended premix ratio but speak to a 'true' 2-stroke tuner (saws, dirtbikes, race karts) and pretty much all will agree than more is better. Improved ring seal & compression (=more power) plus better component life. Fouling the plug, plugging the spark arrestor screen is primarily 'tuning' related, rather than the premix ratio. You can run 20:1 and have a spotless exhaust when tuned and operated correctly.
Have a Stihl 041AV I bought new in 1977 that recommends a 25:1. I have always used this mixture, and it still runs perfectly to this day. I also don't think it has a spark arrestor.
Great story there will
I always ran 40:1-45:1. I empty a small bottle of 2 stroke oil in 5 liters of gaz. I then proceed to add a small shot of oil in the canister. I have used my equipment very very hard and my pistons/cylinders all look like brand new.
I say 32:1. I have an Echo leaf blower my late brother bought new back in the 1980s that I still use occasionally. Runs just fine now. I know that oils are much better than they use to be, but 50:1 is to lean for me. The Only lube the engine gets is what you put in it.
One of my neighbors bought a new string trimmer and ran 50:1 as recommended. It lasted to one month past warranty and locked up. She used the recommended type of oil that is pre measured.
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I run what the manufacturer recommends and I have been having fantastic results using Small Engine Fuel premixed with the oil already in the fuel.
Engineered fuel is the way to go. Running a string trimmer one or two days a week for 20 minutes doesn't burn up too much fuel. The price is well worth it for the shelf life it offers.
@@boots7859 Lucky for me I don't have to go that route. There's a fuel distributor about 20 minutes from where I live that sells ethanol free gas. From what I can tell most people don't have that luxury.
@@boots7859 watch "steves small engine saloon" he recently did a video on this issue and the ethanol seems to not be the only or main issue with small engines. pretty interesting.
Carbon buildup, oil fouling, spooge and smokey exhaust are usually the result of poor jetting. Jet appropriately for your gas-oil ratio and you won't have any of those problems. More oil (up to a certain point) equals better engine protection and better ring seal.
I remember running nitro 2 stroke engines in gas rc cars and at full throttle there was supposed to be a light stream of oil smoke coming from the exhaust. Engine was revved up running high rpm. There was two air fuel mixture screws. One for idle and lower rpm and one for mid rpm and full throttle. If the car was idling and you hit the trigger on the remote for the gas and a puff of smoke came out and the car was sluggish from the get off the idle mixture was too rich. If you're full throttle and no smoke at all the open throttle mixture screw was too lean and the motor could overheat and seize. Then there was the sound and performance of the motor. If the idle screw mixture was too lean the engine would have too high of an idle. So you would adjust it accordingly between the two parameters. Same with the full throttle screw mixture. It's been awhile since I tuned in a nitro glow engine which are not gasoline engines. But a 2 stroke engine is a 2 stroke engine. They're really not that hard to learn how to operate. Now on a chainsaw or a 2 stroke dirt bike even it might be a little more advanced with the carburetor tuning. But no matter what if you're just using gasoline with too much 2 stroke oil mixed into it. It's going to smoke no matter what. But I always thought when a 2 stroke engine is running full throttle and high rpm there should be a light stream of oil smoke coming from the exhaust. If it's too rich it'll affect the performance of the motor and there's a loss of power. Starving a 2 stroke engine of lubrication will most likely occur in the high rpm operation. That's where it's the most critical. I bought an Echo blower and it's a 50:1 fuel oil mixture 2 stroke. The carburetor is probably already close to being set from the manufacturer. But i was wondering if 40:1 would be better. At high rpm operation there's absolutely no light stream of smoke. Another thing too is the throttle response is sluggish when cold and warming up. I'm wondering if they richened it up because of the 50:1 oil fuel mixture? The choke is manual. I probably should just leave it alone.
Have been running 50to1 in my stihl 044 for 23years and my saw runs as good or better than new with NO problems. The trouble with alot of people is they over think with these small engines. Good Video Guys !
My thoughts exactly Thomas Bates. Most of my Stihl saws are nearly 20 years old and I always use high quality oil at 50:1. I do keep my saws tuned and running properly and have never burned or scored a piston.
Thats good to hear. Ive been running 50:1 ever since they came out with oil that called for it. No problems.
I maintain a 40-acre estate and operate - and repair - 12 pieces of Stihl equipment, including five chainsaws, two brush cutters and two backpack blowers. For 25 years I have been using nothing but Stihl oil in a 50:1 mix as specified by the company. After hundreds and hundreds of hours of use not ONE machine has required any engine work whatsoever besides carburetor replacement. I think I will stick with 50:1.
You already know that answer by having to clean a clogged Exhaust full of oil or an oil contaminated plug. Here's one worse. Dumping oil straight into the fuel tank and trying to " Mix" it in the tank. I remember having to blow out straight two cycle oil out of the carburetor. Talk about plugged up mess. I know guys that take the spark arrestor out because it is completely clogged. I have also seen the top of the piston full of carbon from burned on oil. I am sure you have seen everything I have. I constantly refer guys to invest in a Ratio Right measuring cup to mix their fuel. I used to give them away to save me from having to fix gummed up chain saws. Good Video!
I have been using Ratio Rite for as long as I can remember ....
I have never doubled up on the oil for my lawn equipment and that is great advice and it is better to stay with the standards of the company producing your equipment to be safe.
My 2 stroke mower's printed manual actually specifed 25:1. Then they put in a little errata note that said the EPA regulations had required that 2T engines must run at 50:1 to reduce emissions..
I recently just bought a NEW 18" chain saw. There is no printed manual. The PDF manual I downloaded again specifies 25:1.
25:1 is true standard for air cooled two stroke engines. 50:1 is just regulations by ignorant politicians.
I agree 100%. Some of my friends run 32:1, thinking it will make their saw’s last longer. I run nothing but 50:1, Echo Red Armor. I also do not mix gas. In other word, part my gas and part premix. If Inam forced to use a premix, I dump the remaining fuel from the tank and use strictly the premix. Mixing gas can cause problems. I recommend using only JASO certified FD oils at 50:1 with PNE gas.
Suggestion run 0.8 gallons per the 50:1 container. It makes a perfect 40:1 and leaves you room to shake it.
I use 3 oz of oil per gallon of gas for around a 42.6:1 mix in all my outdoor power equipment. It keeps it simple for mixing 1 gallon or 5 gallons of pemix, and have never had an oiling issue.
BRAVO !
I figured my mix at 42.5 : 1
Seems that oil/gas ratios have changed over the years from 16:1-50:1 now. I'm thinking that is for several reasons. Oil technology, materials quality, and environmental restraints. Today's synthetic oils are far superior to 50s-80s 2 cycle oil, but 50:1 is burning up engines all the time. Done that myself. Now with a new Echo CS620PW 27" and Holzfforma G660 PRO 36" I run VP Racing 2 cycle in straight hitest at 40:1 and tune them slightly rich so the saw 4 strokes when letting up from a healthy cut. The pistons and cylinders look polished, exhaust port clean and plug chocolate. I'm not frying anymore engines if I can help it. Sorry for a little more exhaust emissions and sorry to dealers who earn their living selling more saws. Just kidding. I'm not sorry.
I have a McCulloch chainsaw that is 34 years old and still starts on the first or second pull. I have used the recommended oil/gas mixture and it still runs great. I am going to put a new chain on it next week and I am sure it will run at least another 10 years.
I have a 54 year old McCulloch, still runs good. I run 1-2 tanks of gas thru it a year, just got a wood stove so plan to run it more. Grandpa's old saw and he cut probably 80-100 cords of wood with it maybe more.
I have a old david bradley chainsaw, it's 70 years old and still runs good, it takes 25 to 1 for the oil and I use 10w-30 motor oil
I run whatever the manufacturer calls for.
Do you pay the repair bill whatever the manufacturer calls for?
Don and Dave, from my experience if you put so much oil in those small engines, you won't do it for long cause they won't work right, you'll get bogging down and all kinds of trouble.
But years ago when Yamaha came out with the 100/1 mix in their outboard motors a lot of us old school guys didn't like such a high ratio so we mixed 50/1 like we did on the older outboard motors like Johnson.
They worked fine cause it was on much bigger engines than chainsaws.
Nice video guys
So if too much oil carbons up an engine please explain how snowmobiles can run for thousands of miles without doing that? Oil injection has helped for sure as the pump varies the ratio but at or near full throttle ( where saws run most of the time) the oil mixture is at 20 to 1 ratio.
Back in the old days the oil was mixed at sometime 15 to 1 and yes they gummed up but that was the oil chemistry which is not like todays with low ash.
Also it has been proven on the dyno that more oil equals more hp right up to 10 to 1 mixture. Do you need to run more fuel to compensate? Yes but only by a small amount.
Cycle world has done these tests on the dyno as well as many others.
Kevin Cameron was the tech advisor at Cycle world and that man knows his stuff!
By the way I run all premix machines at 32 to 1 and have for many years without any issues
33:1 is ok ?
Didn’t mention atomization. It was explained to me long ago by a much more knowledgeable tech than I, that if you run too much oil, the oil becomes too thick in the fuel, and can’t atomize as well as it’s intended at the carburetor Venturi, so it runs the machine lean and you likely will also have intake side cylinder/piston washing. You would also notice a VERY oily air filter, as well as oil pooling in the intake boot. I used to see that a lot in redmax EB6200/7000/7001 backpacks, as well as PB-4600/46T/46HT/410/403/60T/60HT/601/603/6000/650/751H/751T/755, etc. Echos. All the echos that utilized that top-mounted air cleaner design, even the beautiful PB-400E blower would see this sort of thing and it led to the demise of many. If the bottle says mix with one gallon, that’s what you do. If you don’t know how to adjust a carburetor properly, or are going to disregard the emissions settings because you bought an underpowered machine for you application, and you think by running it rich will give you THAT MUCH more power, it won’t, and you’ll just pollute more. If you need a specific machine, buy it, don’t buy the wrong tool for the job. If you can’t afford it, use credit if you know you’ll pay it off quickly, or simply be patient. Take care of your machine and they’ll take care of you.
I still run my stuff at 32:1. That used to be the standard for all 2-cycle equipment.
I use 32:1 is steel cylinder engines and 42.5:1 in everything that calls for 50:1. I refuse to use high ratio oils at 80-100:1 or whatever.
Using excess oil can also cause a stuck ring from carbon buildup (usually on exhaust side). Also can cause it to run lean but that can be tuned out. Your better off to run factory suggested mix and just tune the carb slightly fat.
Most wear problems with saws is due to improper tuning ( to lean) or cutting with a dull chain. In other words, operator error. I set up all of my two cycle stuff to run slightly rich at high rpm and never cut with a dull chain. I have enough saws to put down a saw with a dull chain and grab another saw with a sharp chain. I carry usually four saws to a cutting job. I start out with my MS 360 and then go to my MS 440 or H 372 if I need them. I keep a smaller saw in case I need it. That saw is my MS 250 or MS 180 at the current time. I run 50:1 Stihl Ultra with PNE gas and stabilizer in most of my equipment. In vintage saws I run JASO FD oil with PNE gas and stabilizer. These old saws, like my MAC PM610 and Homelite XL 12 need better lubrication.
40:1 seems to be the sweet spot for my saws. Burned up one of my MS261s with 50:1 a couple years ago.
I've just switched back to mixing my own gas for 2-strokes and I want to get the best longevity out of the equipment I can. 40:1 is what the old manual said so thats what I run.
Dave is the “man on the street”. He plays the role well. 😎
I bought an MS170 8 or 9 years ago, I have only ever run 25:1, It has never blocked the screen or choked up the plug (still has original plug) My other saws also are run on 25:1, brush cutters can be a different case although in my bigger ones i run 25:1. Over 25 years I have rebuild many demo saws with scored pistons from running 50:1. Weather can play a big part too in the way the different oils perform and burn, some oils have an extremely high flashpoint so it doesn't burn off as well. I wore out my 330 homelite , when I stripped it down piston and bore were spotless only the rig was worn out, it only ever run 25:1. If you only start the saw and do 2 cuts 25:1 is probably not a good choice, it needs to get to proper operating temp.
I just bought a old craftsman chainsaw and the manual recommends 16:1 for proper mix!
Thanks again. We buy the stihl fuel so its mixed. Makes things easier.
If I had your money, I'd burn mine.
$25.00 per gal. compared to less than $5. per gal.? Makes no sense. How is that easier?
@@johnnellis3025 if you knew my life. Minutes saves me lots of time.
I agree it can be very confusing and I recently took apart a engine that was very clean and very well lubed and looked new inside compared to what I know the tool has been through I guess the fuel evaporates and leaves the oil ???????
Although this idea never entered my thought process, I did learn a heck of a lot. Thanks Don and Dave.
have a good day Richard!
It's an old two-stroke motorcycle racer you absolutely do not want to run to Rich and oil mixture a rich oil mixture causes a lean fuel mixture too much oil in the two strokes that we raced caused Pistons to burn holes in the top of them
That's %100 true, I have seen that happen myself.
Right. Because it increases the viscosity of the premix, which will cause less fuel flow through the jets/needles, and a lean condition. Too much oil will also cause hotter combustion which can lead to engine knock. Funny how people think more oil is better.
I’ve run mine a little richer but not to fouling. Never twice as much, way too rich. I’ve never had a problem.
I have been running the recommended 24:1 in my old jiffy ice auger 3hp tecumseh
Using low ash tcw3 No smoke No Carbon ☺
Don, I have run Stihl Ultra for quite a few years but I hat the ash it leaves in a saw, so last year I switched to Echo Red Armor but it also has side effects. Red .armor, because it has such a high flashpoint, stays in the saw, giving less smoke and greater lubricity. My non deco saws got so hard to pull over I could not crank them. My ms 251 felt like I was pulling over an ms 880 without using the deco valve. I did not want to go back to Ultra but there are not a lot of good choices, so I decided to use some Stihl HP. I made up some HP at 50:1 and I like it. It smells better than that stinking Ultra. It will probably take a couple of tanks f HP to burn out all that Red Armor out of my saws. I have learned how to get them running - put them indirect sunlight until the saw temp gets close to 90 degrees. Then, you can pull them over and get them running.
I have 30-year-old saws and brand-new saws I use 45:1 premium synthetic oil.
Depends on how bad the mosquitoes are ;p I run em ritch but they also generally get a good workout when they come out to play so the excess tends to burn off. I've found that the user and job has a big roll to play in mixing. Sorry I didn't get out for that ripping chain this weekend, I had a truck break down lol Cheers fella!
I wochall the way from Mexico great info all the time
I always run Lucas semi synthetic or Stihl premium oil at 40:1 for my milling saws. Haven't had any issues
I use that oil too in my old lawnboy, great oil no smoke even at 32:1
Question, my gas scooter calls for 25:1, i believe that would be the break in period. After I can go 32:1 or 40:1. Now if I switch to 32:1 or 40:1 do I have to manually adjust the carburetor idle and fuel mix screws? If I wanted to do a weeks test for each mix and check the plugs for fouling, and do comparisons on temperatures with different fuel mix, isn't it important to adjust the carburetor each time to the correct fuel mix after it warms up??
Very well explained. Makes total sense!
Great info. I fix my neighbors backpack blower and small machines when needed. She told me that 4 of their blowers wouldn't start, I recently worked on 3 of them and they were running fine. Talking to her about them, the last thing she said that she might have put too much oil in the gas. She actually put 200 ml of oil to 5 liters of gas.(50:1) Double the oil needed. I drained all the machines and added new fuel with the proper amount of oil. Took around 10 pulls but they finally started. They all blew smoke for about 30 seconds but cleared up and ran good.
Ok so I goofed today mixing oil. I use leaf blower to clear fluffy snow from cars, drive and sidewalks. Plan to mix 5 .2 oz to 45:1. Add 1.8 gallons to can at ethanol free pump. I shut pump of at $1.80 instead of gallons. Instead of trying to figure math to correct it dump mistake in my truck and return 20 minutes and start over. Ugh
I run what manufacture requires my husqvarnas have been running good 15 years plus!.
I Follo the recommodation from Stihl on how much Oil i Have in the gas
I guess they Have done some testing
Very informative, lots of interesting details!
I love this, it feels like I’m learning as he’s learning great questions and answers lots of knowledge
I had a trimmer that called for 20:1, fair to say it wasn't manufactured to the highest engineering standards.
I always mix 1:45 for my newer chainsaws but my old chainsaws (Stihl Contra and so on) get 1:30 becouse the cylinder and piston have bigger tolerances from the factory. Back then the parts could not get produced that accurate like today. These "gaps" between cylinder and piston need to be filled with oil, so that there occours no friction. It sounds like that things back then had lower quality, but it is not really the case. My friend who works in the engine development of a company told me this.
Meh, not really true. Engine tolerances for cheap 2 stroke haven't changed much in decades, and piston rings! Rather the EPA made them switch to lower ratios and oil is better than it used to be so the leaner ratios cause less wear, but still more wear than ratios of yesteryear.
The thing to keep in mind is the old equipment spec'd for 1:30 probably already has some wear. If you run the newer equipment with the lean ration, eventually you may want to make it a little richer too.
You Canadian Folks are SOOO DAMN AGREEABLE 🤣
Cracks me up lmao I love it.
Rock on you guys🤘
I tried watching one of your videos this morning. I have watched your videos for years. This morning a commercial screen popped up that took 1/2 the screen that I could not x out of. If this continues I am sorry today that I will not stay subscribed. Thanks for all the help and entertainment over the years.
Thanks for sharing. I’ll be checking my spark arrester.
Good content but why would you address this relatively clueless question about arbitrarily doubling oil rather than a more sane middle ground about using conventional oil mix ratios of yesteryear instead of the now very lean 45:1 or 50:1?
The question to me is would you rather have equipment that's not worn out, then can clean it and keep using it, or would you rather it's worn out and no amount of cleaning will help?
Anyway, if you run too rich an oil mix you'll often suffer performance, usually the max RPM drops, bogs down easier, but at the same time a worn out engine doesn't perform so well either. Middle ground! I run 35:1 on older equipment and 40:1 on newer with synthetic ashless/low-ash oil. Biggest issue is after a few hundred hours, the carb does need pulled off and exhaust port cleaned. IMO it's almost better to go ahead and pull the carb off every now and then, or else you wait too long and you've got a seized bolt and the engine thread get shredded trying to remove it.
Spark plug fouling, meh the plug should be changed once in a while anyway.
33:1 is good ?
My 10yo ms290 developed problems running 40:1. No muffler blockage. I finally switched back to 50:1 and rebuilt the carburetor and the machine ran like new. I don't see any upside to running an oil enriched gas ratio. Today's saws will run, as prescribed, for 10, 20 or more years, cutting 10 cords a year. Caveat -- do other maintenance, i.e. take care of the machine.
I am a stihl mechanic thay like a clean engine and make the saw run hot and lean
I’ve used marine 2 stroke oil for years, it does come with a catch. U have to go in and clean the carbon out of the exhaust port every now and then. Usually once every 2 years (I do this anyway cuz I’m weird) I take the head off, clean it and replace the head bolts and gasket if there is one. I’ve actually noticed though my saws make more power with it, and my scoring is minimal. Works great mixed 50/50 with synthetic for breakin. I always make sure to agitate the tank with the mixed oils though because they do tend to separate out just a little bit when mixed together. I should also mention during the off season all of my saws get stored and ran on aspen 2 alkalyte fuel. Hope this helps anyone having to penny pinch without destroying their equipment. You probably don’t have to replace the head bolts, but I like to just because it’s a habit from building 351 Windsor’s and other vehicle engines.
I won't comment on the marine oil, but using fully synth mixed or otherwise for break in seems very counter intuitive. Synthetic oils are far more slippery than standard oils, ergo the engine does not bed in. I run cars or what ever on regular oils initially to let the machine marks etc get nibbed off, and then for long life use fully synthetic.
@@boots7859 do you guys know what castor oil is? At 1 point in time all 2 stroke oil was castor oil. The oil I use for my outboards is marine grade castor oil. I’ve been running the stuff for ages. All I can tell you is my experience with it. And you’re correct about the fully synthetic being slicker, but I used it to bed in rings a little slower and get more heat cycles before they really sat down. I noticed higher compression in my 461s that I’d done that to. I just broke in my 661 the same way, thing will try to break your arm if you don’t mean it when u pull it. (Decomp valve plugged as well)
Going through the comments I am just now realizing why everyone has issues with it. DISCLAIMER: if you do not run the balls off your equipment and get it hot, don’t do what I do. You will seriously hate life. As a rule of thumb, if it isn’t getting warm enough to start running slightly lean after heavy use, DO NOT USE CASTOR OIL. My saws stay buried in extreme conditions, and I’m anal about taking care of them as they are how I make my living. If I go a day without having to enriching the high needle about an eighth turn at some point, it was an easy day. I burn anywhere from about 2.5 to 3.5 gallons in a day bucking logs or milling. Most people don’t use their equipment like that.
@@jarrett754 I love using castor oil. I use maximas caster 927 which is 80% castor as 20% synthetic. I love that oil.
@@garrettstevensen2467 how often/how hard do you run your engines? And what are your experiences with carbon build up? For me it’s always been manageable. But I’ve come to the understanding I’m more of a special uses category compared to most.
If you did not jet to the new 25-1 it could seize the motor from being lean. Chainsaws run hard for short periods and then they idle for a while. I have seen race engines running very hard of 50 or 60 CC run as low as 16-1. These engine may make as high as 25 or more horse power. They can have a carbon build up on the exhaust port. I often ran 36-1 with turbo blue for years with 440 Stihl saws. We used maxima 727 oil. It was made for racing. The new ones I run 50-1 with no problems.
Donny my name is Ian Grant I live in Jamaica I operated chainsaw and I repair chainsaw many times I buy 2-stroke oil different from the Stihl brand and I've come across some very thin two-stroke oil where I have to use more than the amount
As a regular user of the 2T yard tools, I'll go 50:1 > 45:1 and keep extra exhaust gaskets for servicing the mufflers. Thanks, nothing consistent about 2 stroke oil ratios.
I completely agree with everything that was said here, much smart wisdom was spoken here, and that my friends is why I think that Don and Dave, are a 100% kickass product. Thanks guys :)
thanks buddy!
Good information tho and very correct. Good job!
The RC plane in the background runs 15 to 20% oil and most of it goes straight out the exhaust and slimes the plane.
If the engine require 32:1 oil mix can you use 50:1 oil mix?
I think a major contributing factor to excess fouling, apart from too much oil, is leaving 2-stroke engines at idle for too long especially on chainsaws. I see guys make some limbing and clearing cuts then leave the saw idling for 5-10 minutes while they clear the crud and then another burst of cuts followed by more idling. The machine is idling more than it’s cutting and that does a 2-stroke no good at all IMO.
Love your videos, I stumbled upon your channel by accident a year ago(looking for something else). Would like to see, how to fix a bar oil seal. I have a old Homelite 150. Was my father's. The bar oil leaks out faster than I add. Probably not worth the cost, but it has lots of personal memories. Would like to restore it in the future.
Get your tools out and have a go. Saws are not high tech and are easy to work on.
There are other good brand of 2-stroke oil on the market oil that I prefer to use differently from the Stihl two-stroke oil Excel Universal 2-stroke oil it works very good for me lately I cannot get any
Now you should make a video of the temperature of 40:1 mix. Very curious on that.
Greetings from northeastern alberta I mix all mine 40 :1
I have a related L & T mixture screw question, I rebuilt the carburetor and set float and all gaskets with kit set properly. I Put a new cylinder and jug from husqavarna into the chainsaw, as it is a 1998 350 saw, And my exhaust screen is clear and my crank seals and boot are not leaking yet it idols best when the idle screw is turned in all the way, And I set the H & L screw with a tachometer, The saw accelerates to response from the throttle very well, But what is wrong my idol? H &L screws are not bent yet it needs to go in all the way to idle And if I backed out the L screw it would stall?
Thank you for your explain! and very kindly video show! from south korea!
Commented on this before but I had a seizure because of to much oil once myself, It led to excess carbon that hardened and destroyed the piston. If it's smoking always double check your mixing procedure. I've seen black rivers of gunk flowing from mufflers and people ask me what's wrong with it... hahaha nothings wrong with it just the owner.
For years my dad ran 32:1 on everything.
My Dad has a old Lawn Boy two-stroke mower that he swears by that runs 32:1. It runs great, the only issue I have with it is smelling like I've been at the racetrack all day after mowing.
Master, is a 1:33 mix okay for the 372 xp 357xp 351 and the 545rx scythe? Will it not make too many deposits? husqvarna LS + oil?
Another informative video on real issues! 👍
40:1 Tru-Fuel in my 1975ish Poulan S25DA.
2-cycle engines really haven't changed much. 40:1 with a modern synthetic is fine. Any richer fuel mix isn't necessary. Tune your carb correctly. Take your machine to a small engine mechanic like Dave, or Don to tune it for you.
I always used to run my 2 stroke motocross bikes at 40:1 and never blew one up or had carbon buildup. My equipment is ran at 50:1
Would it be bad to run a lawn boy f engine at a 16:1 or because those aren't as high rpm as these chain saws would a leaner mixture do the trick ?
The oil is good, the gas (ethanol) is bad - run mid grade in 2 stroke engines as most people won't burn 5L of cheap gas in a year.
The fuel tank on my weed whacker lasts me the whole season, it doesn't get more then about 10mins of use per cutting.
50:1 for saws 75c and smaller. If they are ported. Run them at 40:1. Saws 80cc and larger 33:1 one of many mistakes people make, is they don't have the system retuned after break-in. New equipment comes dangerously lean from the factory to appease the epa. If you double the oil you are leaning out the mix more oil less fuel.
Master, is a 1:33 mix okay for the 372 xp 357xp 351 and the 545rx scythe? Will it not make too many deposits? husqvarna LS + oil?
@@Sensei948 the higher oil ratio is for saw with greater bearing loads. The saws you listed will be happy in the 40:1 range. If they are ported 35:1 My 3120 demands 33 to 32:1.
@@Sensei948 My 346xp rolls on 40:1 in summer 50:1 winter.. less oil = richer mix aka more fuel.
I have a question: can I use fuel injector cleaner (for cars) on two stroke engines to clean up carburetors? Will it clean it?
yup... i do that all the time... im no expert though and so it at your own risk use common sense and make sure its stays lubricated etc..
It will but if you wait till the engine has a hard time running, it will be a chore to keep it running long enough to clean the carb out and it's not a substitute for draining fuel for storage, nor will it eliminate the need for an eventual carb cleaning or replacement, just extend the interval.
Note that if you use a top tier fuel, especially ethanol free, fresh fuel in a timely fashion, then the detergents already in it are doing the job so you don't need fuel system cleaner.
The main reason engines run now at 50 : 1 is political mandate from the EU . Oil technology has not improved that much but engine technology has or had to and any of that old two-stroke engine should still run on its recommended ratio of 32 : 1 or even 25 : 1. Those Chinese cloned cylinders and pistons should also be run closer to 32 : 1 as their metallurgy is certainly not to European standards.
Exercise time, Dony!!!🙂
Look like home cooking has been good to you.
Yes & the unburned oil sits in top of the piston & varnishes up.the piston rings, piston & cylinder which is why you also find that the piston rings end up stuck in the ring lands.
The same thing happens in a 4 stroke engine if you don't change the oil regularly enough !
Huh? No, any oil that gets past the piston rings is going to either get flushed out with the next stroke of fuel intake, or turn to carbon if it sticks around. Stuck piston rings are more often a sign of engine overheat to the point of oil breakdown, or low quality oil exacerbates it.
Please THINK! If you have unburned oil that is a lubricant and would do the exact opposite, keep piston rings that would otherwise stick, to stay free. That's one of the purposes of the oil in the first place.
However if you meant that piston blow-by carbonizes the oil and seizes the ring in the piston, sure that happens, but happens more from using a lean ratio so you have more wear to create the gap for the blow-by.
It's a great idea if you want to stop up the exhaust
Lots of great info! Thanks!
That MS170 would run like garbage with 25:1 because the oil does displace fuel in mix and those saws do not have adjustable carbs to compensate for the extra oil so the engine could run hot, add to that the extra carbon build up and a plugged spark arrestor to keep the heat from escaping like it should and you will have a cooked saw in no time.
now im running 32:1 full syntetic oil with 92 non etanol gas
Another great video! Thanks.
I wonder why the chinese holzforma farmertec designer knockoff chainsaws recommend 25:1 mix? I figured it was due to inferior materials in the engine construction, but 40:1 should be fine with good oil...I use red armour.
I've noticed that most of the time most of the videos the equipment being worked on is stihl especially chainsaw. Is it just cause it's popular up there. I ask because I been thinking of getting a chainsaw but I was thinking, do they break that easily 🤔 Great video by the way 👍
Stihl is by far the most popular professional and prosumer grade equipment used here!
Two things: 1 Every chainsaw has consumable parts like bar, chain, clutch and the world is full of nonmechanical chainsaw users. 2. Even a great saw like Stihl is not idiot-proof.
Buy a Stihl, treat it right, do regular maintenance and enjoy it for the rest of your life.
@@lunarrn thank you so much for your helpful information I appreciate it
If you hs e an older machine with an adjustable low and high speed needle you can easily tune it for 25:1 or even 20:1. For the non adjustable carburetors you could go ever so slightly lean though were talking only 2% difference. In the long run this could have a detrimental effect on the engine if it's already tuned lean to meed emissions regulations.