+NatureHacker We did. The winner had 2.71 A and others had a bit lower, about 2.3 to 1.5 A a few minutes after their second race. One battery had 4 A, but the team got 5 sec penalty as it was a replacement cell.
There was a new battery building workshop 23th and 24th Aug 2016 in Chemicum. 13 cars were racing and the winner was Konstantin with time of 4.72 seconds, his teammate Daniil was second with time of 5.75 seconds. Third time Gert/Alise 6.03 seconds.
Hi, do you use fresh activated carbon or used activated carbon. how many volts do you get per cell. I want to repeat your experiment, and see if I can get the same results. I am thinking of using a cheese cloth to hold the carbon in place instead of gluing it. I will stitch the cheese cloth around the mesh. thanks
activated carbon from water filter. But carbon needs a solid contact with current collector. So a cloth could work only if pressure is applied with vices at the same time.
Strainers are often zinc coated, not nickel. This would explain higher amperage/voltage for what I have found to be 400mA/1.2V nominal. Nice carbon job and very simple bottle jack press! KOH is my choice for electrolyte but reseachers have made something of a eutectic mix by adding NaOH...not a clue. Just have to see what works, right? Thanks!
@chemicum Hi, I'm part of team that is looking into creating an air battery as part of the Chem E car competition. I had a couple questions about the design though. 1. We don't really have access to a hydraulic press - would a similar result be obtained if we just used clamps to apply pressure when creating the carbon electrodes? 2. Additionally, would we even have to use epoxy glue if we instead kept the electrodes under pressure during use? For example, if we had two acrylic plates on either side of the electrodes that were clamped and then held together with nuts and bolts would this create sufficient contact for there to be good current flow? (we need around 0.4 A) 3. If we don't have to use glue, would activated carbon powder work better than the larger 1 mm pieces, or would the larger pieces still provide more surface area?
it might do something but probably not as good as with glue and press. Similar cathodes as in the video and more professional ones can be obtained through superaccu.com
Why not make the carbon electrodes out of carbon? Or make a carbon ink? Just grind the carbon to a very fine powder and mix with denatured alcohol. Then just a paint it on.
Wonderful video! I've been trying to build this battery myself but I have not been very successful. There is one step in these instructions that I cannot do, which is heating the electrodes while they are being pressed. I can't do that because I currently don't have the means to imitate what you did to keep them pressed while they're heated. So I just keep them pressed for 35 min, but I don't heat them up. Is the heating part very important? Should I heat them after pressing?
Hi, some of my classmates were trying this experiment at home. Can you explain us more about the Pipe Hedgehog solution?, where did you get it or is it possible to prepare it?
1) I watched the video of supercapacitor. There is different way of attaching ac on the mesh. May I know which method work better? Do I need to smear the ac into the pores of mesh or just slightly smear on the surface of mesh? 2) I am doing this battery in the laboratory. Thus, may you advise some better electrolyte which can perform better? I will try to look for the chemicals required. 3) Iszit necessary to held the mesh under compression until the glue is fully dried? Sometimes, after I compress it using G-clamp, I will remove the compressed layer and leave the mesh dry under room temperature. Looking forward to your reply. Awesome video =)
This Al-air battery method is newer and has better performance, the electrode needs heavy pressure, you may use any basic or neutral electrolyte, which has high ionic cinductuvity
Hey Chemicum, our group tried doing a similar battery but our aluminum is dissolving in our sodium hydroxide mixture and producing hydrogen gas. Is there any way to avoid this and does your battery design have any of these problems? Thanks!
Yep, this problem exists, there are two solutions: 1) after adding electrolyte, use the battery with maximum power until depletion of aluminum. When high current is flowing through, aluminum corrosion is much smaller at the same time 2) use pure aluminum - but it is expensive What power did you get
As soon as it was built we got a few amps (I don't remember how high exactly but it might have been as much as 4 amps at its peak), but that number dropped off very rapidly as the aluminum degraded. We also didn't have adequate pressure between the different layers of the cell which no doubt led to poorer contact. We used a CD case for the build, and while our carbon electrode was not as nice as the one in the video, it wasn't terrible either. (I'm in the same group as Philip Whong for reference) What source of pure aluminum can you recommend we use?
4A is the best result among other experimenters/commenters. How did you made carbon electrodes exactly: what glue, carbon particle size, electrode thickness and size, hydraulic press?
We used a fencing grid for the frame of the electrode, and to make the gaps smaller we pulled apart steel wool and tried to weave it into the gaps. Standard 2 part epoxy was used for the glue, and we had difficulty spreading it, so the outer 1 - 2 cm has very little carbon on it. The activated carbon was briefly ground in a mortar and pestle (when we ground it into a powder for our first try it didn't work too well). We still have to work on a clamping solution, but what we used was just some acrylic on either side with a bunch of C clamps to apply pressure. The overall electrode size was about 12x12cm, and the 4 amps was only achieved briefly when we pressed hard upon the CD case. As we only need less than a quarter amp for our purpose, and aesthetics are a large part of the competition, we will likely not delve more into working on getting more current. Instead we are more likely to experiment with different setups, such as trying something like making a round carbon electrode and wrapping aluminum wire around it. At the same time we are also working with zinc air batteries so that we can compare their pros and cons as we delve into the idiosyncrasies further. We will probably need at least 3 cells wired up in series to get the voltage we need, and the main part of our competition is consistency, so most of work will be in getting a consistent output voltage for as long a period of time as possible.
That means we can use any type of epoxy glue to bind carbon to current collector. I am quite confused how the charge collected in carbon pores will be transferred to current collector, if the epoxy is not electrically conductive
Jatin Goyal any glue. Imagine tiny droplets connecting carbon grains to current collector. Carbon must touch current collector - that is why high pressure. Glue only makes sure it stays there.
Hello Mister Chemicum. I am trying to make one of these aluminium air batteries to power a little radio-controlled car. However, I am not sure if the maximum current would be enough powerful to power the motor. Could you tell me how you increased the maximum amperage? Thank you in advance.
@@chemicum Thank you and do you think I should reduce the space between the electrodes ? I suppose, the less will be space between the anode and the cathode, the less will be the resistance of the battery. Or maybe it's not really important. What do you think ?
chemicum what about the current? Because i used a 1.5V motor with all the same exact materials and methods of making the battery but the motor won’t work because not enough current is produced😢
@@chemicum And are you sure tissue paper serves the purpose of polymer separator? Instead of powdered activated carbon, I used graphene. What is your opinion about that?
@@chemicum Yes, fine RGO powder And one more thing, pressure wasn't simultaneously applied whilst heating the cathode. (I couldn't find a metal plate thick enough for the job)
very cool! entertaining new style of video. i understand you quite good, so you dont have to use hardcoded subtitles, you should add them after uploading via the youtube editor.
Ways to improve this method:Use nickel or copper mesh (best copper mesh plated with zinc)use liquid latex instead of epoxy to make it flexible and all natural (epoxy has bpa). Add some hydrogen peroxide. Will help dissolve oxide layer from aluminum and boost volts by 0.2V.. Use more aluminum: you need 6x more aluminum than mesh to get max current. So if your mesh is 4 square inches use 24 square inches aluminum and scrunch it up.
Not bad ideas, we have tested some already. Copper tends to corrode too easily - cannot be used repeatedly like stainless steel. The idea to use more aluminum - we have tried with rough surface (by making many holes to a few sheets of kitchen foil pressed together. And it heated too much, so that all electrolyte evaporated.
the best mesh to use would be copper plated with nickel then plated with chromium. You probably could then plate that with molybdenum then after that tungsten, but I'm not sure if anything past chromium works.
fyi refractory metals are the most resistant to alkaline corrosion. Noble metals are actually worse in alkaline than refractory metals. Tantalum is the number 1 best corrosion resistant element.
I think it is possible, maybe I am working on it right now. The Al-air is only mechanically rechargeable - add new aluminum, carbon cathodes are reusable.
interestingm thanks. It's sad that they don't teach you that stuff in school (like with this as experiment), because I de-selected Chemistry in school because it was boring, if we learend stuff like that it would be interesting.... BTW do you know CodysLab?
+Emiliano Viana electrolysis, production of hydrogen and oxygen. Actually, on a second thought nothing happens if aluminum is completely consumed - it cannot electrolyze with one electrode left only
+chemicum unfortunately it is not possible to plate the aluminium onto a base metal electrode during recharging because Al3+ doesn't want to come out of solution when there's already H+ in the water
Hey Chemicum. We followed the same steps and used the same material as mentioned in your video except for the hydraulic pressing and heating. Even though we did not apply hydraulic pressing, the activated carbon firmly stuck on the mesh. However, we obtained few milliamps and a low voltage (approximately 50 mV). Does this have to do with the hydraulic pressing and heating to 100 degrees C for 35 min? Thank you
Hi, heating can be omitted if you have enough time to wait until the glue completely hardens. But pressing is important to get good electrical contact between carbon and current collector.
Hey Chemicum. I have followed the same steps as shown in your video. However, the only difference is that I am using fine activated carbon (in powder form) - ordered from a chemical company - instead of coarse activated carbon as the one used in aquariums. As a result, I am obtaining low current but acceptable voltage (0.6 V). Could the low current be attributed to the fine particle of activated carbon? Thank you in advance for you help.
Fine carbon powder does not work with epoxy technology, it needs a different binder (PTFE etc) and some conductive addition (carbon nanotubes, carbon black etc)
Al-air battery is only mechanically rechargeable - consumed Al can be replaced and cathodes can be used repeatedly after washing and drying. The Tic-Tac supercapacitor is electrically rechargeable - but energy density is much smaller and making a full cell takes more time.
I made a similar setup and arranged in series to get a higher voltage like 3 V or so...and then I connected it to a 1.5 V motor. It didn't run.. Then I realised current is very low like 20 mAmps or so... So how do I increase the current in it??
I tried several combinations...Like NaOH/NaCl mix and KOH/KCl mix with different concentrations...In all the cases same problem...low current but very high voltage more than what we need..
Usually the weakest point is carbon electrode - whether it has bad contact (high pressure needed during glueing for good electrical contact) or bad carbon (only special activated carbon works, usual charcoal has too low conductivity. And this gluing method only works for 1mm or larger carbon particles.
glue is isolator, but only small amount of glue is used. Under pressure, is good contact between carbon and metal - glue just fixes this so that pressure can be removed
There was no short circuit. I tried using just G-clamps to get enough pressure on the Cathode with wood blocks, but I don't think it was enough. I've got some finer grains of carbon, steel plates and a hydraulic press now so hopefully my next test will go better. Resistance through the carbon to the electrode mesh should be fairly minimal? What kind of resistance do you get?
see also my supercapacitor video - resistance was measured there directly at electrodes. Finer carbon powder does not work well with this technology, it needs a binder like PTFE. Carbon must be special activated carbon - barbecue coal won't work without high temp activation
So current does actually flow through the carbon producing only a few ohms of resistance. I followed the coffee grinder and sieveing process from the supercapacitor video, but followed the mesh, and pressing parts of this video. Got 2 hrs till it's ready so I'll let you know how the resistance is. My first couple had mega ohm resistance and greater so hopefully these will do better lol.
I like the idea of using the mesh. I don't like the idea of using glue or the press. There are other ways to get the carbon to stick to the mesh and not having to press the mesh. To be practical, using sewer cleaner won't work. You need to have a natural acid solution to use instead. If society fell there would be no stores to go to, but there would be plenty of carbon ash and metal lying around. Even human urine would do as an electrolyte. All in all, I like the presentation and the video.
Me tegime laboritöö praktikumis sama asja ja meile näidati seda videot. "Pipe Hedgehog"-i juures hakkas kogu praksirühm naerma, sest see on liiga hea tõlge!
Am I the only one who thinks this is a scam? I love this stuff and recently had lots of time reading about different things like SOFC and iron flow batteries but haven't seen something so power dense in any of them in fact if this is true then I see why it didn't replace the Li-ion battery already (except for the size restraints probably).
I have an issue. Epoxy glue is not necesarily an electric conductor 1:15 this part seems not too veridic
indeed epoxy is dielectric, therefore good contact is needed between conductive carbon particles
guy has a trunk full of batteries. lol.
Дуже цікаве відео! Хороша ідея. Дякую!
Germany was on the lead but the last racer Bulgaria ... - we are still analyzing how it is even possible.
I'll tell you how he did it...nickel mesh. I am going to commercialize batteries open source using this and make it big! Thanks!
The EUSO race competition video is here th-cam.com/video/QzRAKzsPkAk/w-d-xo.html
The winner of the car race is Bulgaria A team 4.31 sec
2. Rumenia A team 5.01 sec
3. Sweden B team 5.03 sec
4. Germany A team 5.15 sec
cool did you check each car battery's amps and volts after the race?
+NatureHacker We did. The winner had 2.71 A and others had a bit lower, about 2.3 to 1.5 A a few minutes after their second race. One battery had 4 A, but the team got 5 sec penalty as it was a replacement cell.
There was a new battery building workshop 23th and 24th Aug 2016 in Chemicum. 13 cars were racing and the winner was Konstantin with time of 4.72 seconds, his teammate Daniil was second with time of 5.75 seconds. Third time Gert/Alise 6.03 seconds.
Hi, do you use fresh activated carbon or used activated carbon. how many volts do you get per cell. I want to repeat your experiment, and see if I can get the same results. I am thinking of using a cheese cloth to hold the carbon in place instead of gluing it. I will stitch the cheese cloth around the mesh. thanks
activated carbon from water filter. But carbon needs a solid contact with current collector. So a cloth could work only if pressure is applied with vices at the same time.
Strainers are often zinc coated, not nickel. This would explain higher amperage/voltage for what I have found to be 400mA/1.2V nominal. Nice carbon job and very simple bottle jack press! KOH is my choice for electrolyte but reseachers have made something of a eutectic mix by adding NaOH...not a clue. Just have to see what works, right? Thanks!
yeah, it seems that there is no significant effect whether use zinc coated iron or nickel-iron alloy current collectors
dude you're cutting up a roof?! your grandpas jack?! the meat grinder?! man... you gotta be a boss.
Does the glue have to be epoxy?
some other glues also work
But does the glue have to be conductive?
Mon Dude not definitely
@@chemicum ok thanks i will probly make a battery today
@chemicum Hi, I'm part of team that is looking into creating an air battery as part of the Chem E car competition. I had a couple questions about the design though.
1. We don't really have access to a hydraulic press - would a similar result be obtained if we just used clamps to apply pressure when creating the carbon electrodes?
2. Additionally, would we even have to use epoxy glue if we instead kept the electrodes under pressure during use? For example, if we had two acrylic plates on either side of the electrodes that were clamped and then held together with nuts and bolts would this create sufficient contact for there to be good current flow? (we need around 0.4 A)
3. If we don't have to use glue, would activated carbon powder work better than the larger 1 mm pieces, or would the larger pieces still provide more surface area?
it might do something but probably not as good as with glue and press.
Similar cathodes as in the video and more professional ones can be obtained through superaccu.com
How does it compare to a lithium ion battery of the same size?
Graham Grecian should have twice energy density - at least fully developed batteries
How long will this battery last?Or is it rechargable
Hello sir Great video,but i was wondering what is the difference between this and your 800f supercapcitor?
Supercap has 2 carbon electrodes and closed vessel. Al-air battery has Al electrode and carbon electrode, which is in contact with oxygen
How long will this battery last?Or is it rechargable
it lasts 1h - 1day. Only mechanically rechargeable - cathodes are reuseable.
Your family members are hates you because you just destroy their equipment 😂
Good battery friend 👍
oh, it was just school inventory
Have you tried raw carbon fibre fabric as an electrode?
It functions but not perfect. However, high temperature activation improves some carbon fiber fabric electrodes
@@chemicum I see. I guess I'd experiment anyway. Thanks!
Why not make the carbon electrodes out of carbon? Or make a carbon ink? Just grind the carbon to a very fine powder and mix with denatured alcohol. Then just a paint it on.
Frenchie tested, it does not work. Such small homemade carbon is almost isolator. It must be professionally made, but this needs laboratory tools
Wonderful video! I've been trying to build this battery myself but I have not been very successful.
There is one step in these instructions that I cannot do, which is heating the electrodes while they are being pressed. I can't do that because I currently don't have the means to imitate what you did to keep them pressed while they're heated. So I just keep them pressed for 35 min, but I don't heat them up.
Is the heating part very important? Should I heat them after pressing?
Hi, heating not needed, it only speeds up hardeing of the glue.
hello
is that a battery or a supercapacitor?
That is a battery
Hi, some of my classmates were trying this experiment at home. Can you explain us more about the Pipe Hedgehog solution?, where did you get it or is it possible to prepare it?
It is basically 10% NaOH solution. In different brandnames, this cheap toilet clogging removal liquid should be available in any country.
Ребята! Это потрясающе!
1) I watched the video of supercapacitor. There is different way of attaching ac on the mesh. May I know which method work better? Do I need to smear the ac into the pores of mesh or just slightly smear on the surface of mesh?
2) I am doing this battery in the laboratory. Thus, may you advise some better electrolyte which can perform better? I will try to look for the chemicals required.
3) Iszit necessary to held the mesh under compression until the glue is fully dried? Sometimes, after I compress it using G-clamp, I will remove the compressed layer and leave the mesh dry under room temperature.
Looking forward to your reply. Awesome video =)
This Al-air battery method is newer and has better performance, the electrode needs heavy pressure, you may use any basic or neutral electrolyte, which has high ionic cinductuvity
Thank you for the reply.
When applying epoxy glue, do I need to smear the glue into the pores of mesh or just slightly smear on the surface of mesh?
It gets inside of holes anyway. Uniform layer, as little glue as possible
Nice video, but battery probably not last long, when aluminium gets corroded from the sodium hydroxide?
true, it is a problem and there are methods being developed to work around this
@@chemicum yeah i hope they can solve that problem... :)
i see where thoisoi got his idea from.
how long will it be on ???
Depends on quality if aluminum and cathode. From 10 minutes to full day.
Hey Chemicum, our group tried doing a similar battery but our aluminum is dissolving in our sodium hydroxide mixture and producing hydrogen gas. Is there any way to avoid this and does your battery design have any of these problems? Thanks!
Yep, this problem exists, there are two solutions:
1) after adding electrolyte, use the battery with maximum power until depletion of aluminum. When high current is flowing through, aluminum corrosion is much smaller at the same time
2) use pure aluminum - but it is expensive
What power did you get
As soon as it was built we got a few amps (I don't remember how high exactly but it might have been as much as 4 amps at its peak), but that number dropped off very rapidly as the aluminum degraded. We also didn't have adequate pressure between the different layers of the cell which no doubt led to poorer contact. We used a CD case for the build, and while our carbon electrode was not as nice as the one in the video, it wasn't terrible either. (I'm in the same group as Philip Whong for reference)
What source of pure aluminum can you recommend we use?
It all sounds real. Better purity Al can be obtained from electrical wires, 99.99% Al foil from sigma-aldrich is just ridiculously expensive
4A is the best result among other experimenters/commenters. How did you made carbon electrodes exactly: what glue, carbon particle size, electrode thickness and size, hydraulic press?
We used a fencing grid for the frame of the electrode, and to make the gaps smaller we pulled apart steel wool and tried to weave it into the gaps. Standard 2 part epoxy was used for the glue, and we had difficulty spreading it, so the outer 1 - 2 cm has very little carbon on it. The activated carbon was briefly ground in a mortar and pestle (when we ground it into a powder for our first try it didn't work too well). We still have to work on a clamping solution, but what we used was just some acrylic on either side with a bunch of C clamps to apply pressure.
The overall electrode size was about 12x12cm, and the 4 amps was only achieved briefly when we pressed hard upon the CD case.
As we only need less than a quarter amp for our purpose, and aesthetics are a large part of the competition, we will likely not delve more into working on getting more current. Instead we are more likely to experiment with different setups, such as trying something like making a round carbon electrode and wrapping aluminum wire around it.
At the same time we are also working with zinc air batteries so that we can compare their pros and cons as we delve into the idiosyncrasies further.
We will probably need at least 3 cells wired up in series to get the voltage we need, and the main part of our competition is consistency, so most of work will be in getting a consistent output voltage for as long a period of time as possible.
Is this type of rechargeable battery?
Aluminum can be replaced only mechanically, carbon electrode is reuseable
Then it is not rechargeable
Is there any type of aluminum secondary air battery ??
which epoxy glue is used this video. is it electrically conductive ????
Jatin Goyal it is not. Glue attaches carbon to current collector
That means we can use any type of epoxy glue to bind carbon to current collector. I am quite confused how the charge collected in carbon pores will be transferred to current collector, if the epoxy is not electrically conductive
Jatin Goyal any glue. Imagine tiny droplets connecting carbon grains to current collector. Carbon must touch current collector - that is why high pressure. Glue only makes sure it stays there.
what if the epoxy (binder ) used is electrically conductive ?
Jatin Goyal that would make supercap better
Hello Mister Chemicum. I am trying to make one of these aluminium air batteries to power a little radio-controlled car. However, I am not sure if the maximum current would be enough powerful to power the motor. Could you tell me how you increased the maximum amperage? Thank you in advance.
Good and large surface area cathode is the key
@@chemicum Thank you and do you think I should reduce the space between the electrodes ? I suppose, the less will be space between the anode and the cathode, the less will be the resistance of the battery. Or maybe it's not really important. What do you think ?
quentin tiefaine practically there is some gas evolution and some space is needed so that gas can go away
Hi where is the car battery video
GuardedDig2 not ready yet
chemicum ah thanks can’t wait to see it :)
I'm in shock. Good video. I like it.
Hi! May i know the voltage and current requirements for the motor you used?
1.5 V micro motor quite powerful.
chemicum what about the current? Because i used a 1.5V motor with all the same exact materials and methods of making the battery but the motor won’t work because not enough current is produced😢
test first with multimeter, how many amps do you get?
Sir, can the air cathode that you made be used as well for Magnesium-Air battery?
sure
will it work not having a tissue membrane? the electrolyte will serve as a medium for the magnesium alloy plate and air cathode.
mermeh tissue works fine
this is awsome, I love your design
What is the mesh particle size?
it is ~0.5 mm
haha great concept cutting stuff from every place , its for science so its not theft xD
Can I use wood charcoal?
No, it does not work, it has low conductivity. It can be used after activating at 900 oCأفكار بسيطة No
thankyou bro
I tried making one numerous times ... Yet the current output I get is around 16 mA. I don't understand what I missed?!!
The cathode preparation is usually most difficult
@@chemicum And are you sure tissue paper serves the purpose of polymer separator?
Instead of powdered activated carbon, I used graphene. What is your opinion about that?
Rivin Sainudeen tissue paper works. What kind of graphene ... RGO?
@@chemicum Yes, fine RGO powder
And one more thing, pressure wasn't simultaneously applied whilst heating the cathode. (I couldn't find a metal plate thick enough for the job)
And Dr, do we need to stick to Ni Mesh? The mesh just need be non reactive with Al right?
How can I make electrolyte for gel battery?
very cool! entertaining new style of video. i understand you quite good, so you dont have to use hardcoded subtitles, you should add them after uploading via the youtube editor.
Great... what metal air battery do you think should produce more power?
Al it is I think, others have lower power and in organic electrolytes (Li, Na) power is much lower
Thank you.
tHANK U
Ways to improve this method:Use nickel or copper mesh (best copper mesh plated with zinc)use liquid latex instead of epoxy to make it flexible and all natural (epoxy has bpa). Add some hydrogen peroxide. Will help dissolve oxide layer from aluminum and boost volts by 0.2V.. Use more aluminum: you need 6x more aluminum than mesh to get max current. So if your mesh is 4 square inches use 24 square inches aluminum and scrunch it up.
Not bad ideas, we have tested some already. Copper tends to corrode too easily - cannot be used repeatedly like stainless steel. The idea to use more aluminum - we have tried with rough surface (by making many holes to a few sheets of kitchen foil pressed together. And it heated too much, so that all electrolyte evaporated.
Oops I meant copper mesh electroplated with nickel, not zinc.
the best mesh to use would be copper plated with nickel then plated with chromium. You probably could then plate that with molybdenum then after that tungsten, but I'm not sure if anything past chromium works.
fyi refractory metals are the most resistant to alkaline corrosion. Noble metals are actually worse in alkaline than refractory metals. Tantalum is the number 1 best corrosion resistant element.
+NatureHacker tantalum is corrosion proof indeed, but it is expensive and it is coated with a dielectric layer. It is used in dielectric capacitors.
COOL! is it recharable? do you think its possible to build a recharable battery of household materials?
I think it is possible, maybe I am working on it right now. The Al-air is only mechanically rechargeable - add new aluminum, carbon cathodes are reusable.
interestingm thanks. It's sad that they don't teach you that stuff in school (like with this as experiment), because I de-selected Chemistry in school because it was boring, if we learend stuff like that it would be interesting.... BTW do you know CodysLab?
Subbed to your chanel. What happens when you try to recharge them?
+Emiliano Viana electrolysis, production of hydrogen and oxygen. Actually, on a second thought nothing happens if aluminum is completely consumed - it cannot electrolyze with one electrode left only
+chemicum unfortunately it is not possible to plate the aluminium onto a base metal electrode during recharging because Al3+ doesn't want to come out of solution when there's already H+ in the water
Hey Chemicum. We followed the same steps and used the same material as mentioned in your video except for the hydraulic pressing and heating. Even though we did not apply hydraulic pressing, the activated carbon firmly stuck on the mesh. However, we obtained few milliamps and a low voltage (approximately 50 mV). Does this have to do with the hydraulic pressing and heating to 100 degrees C for 35 min? Thank you
Hi, heating can be omitted if you have enough time to wait until the glue completely hardens. But pressing is important to get good electrical contact between carbon and current collector.
Very good! This information is very helpful here in 2077. Hard times.
Lol
Didn't you guys made fusion reactor in your time
How many amp hours is the battery?
Doug Halpern up to a few Ampers (decreasing in time) and up to one hour.
Hey Chemicum. I have followed the same steps as shown in your video. However, the only difference is that I am using fine activated carbon (in powder form) - ordered from a chemical company - instead of coarse activated carbon as the one used in aquariums. As a result, I am obtaining low current but acceptable voltage (0.6 V). Could the low current be attributed to the fine particle of activated carbon? Thank you in advance for you help.
Fine carbon powder does not work with epoxy technology, it needs a different binder (PTFE etc) and some conductive addition (carbon nanotubes, carbon black etc)
Is it rechargable
mechanically - replace new Al. (The used Al2O3 can be electrolyzed back to metallic aluminum in a high temperature cryolite cell)
How long can this battery work ? Is it possible to dissolve that aluminum plate with 10% NaOH even when battery is not using ?
Depending on purity of Al, it works from 1h to several days. It must be connected to load all time, otherwise Al will dissolve uselessly
Hey, I would like to buy some, but on your site doesn't seem to be available, can you send me some info on how to get two or three, greetings!
Ok, now the electrodes are available at www.superaccu.com
+chemicum weird I only see 3 videos
try refreshing the page.
+chemicum got it! Btw are these capacitors recheargable? I saw another video that said they might be used only once
Al-air battery is only mechanically rechargeable - consumed Al can be replaced and cathodes can be used repeatedly after washing and drying. The Tic-Tac supercapacitor is electrically rechargeable - but energy density is much smaller and making a full cell takes more time.
There is no way you got 2.5 amps. No way at all. Can you show a closeup of the meter so I can see the settings?
+NatureHacker One cell in the race got 4 A and it was measured after the race.
That is insane. How long do the batteries last?
can you give me your email? I would like to buy one electrode from you for testing, the website given in the video doesn't work.
+NatureHacker wait a week, we are counting points this night.
I made a similar setup and arranged in series to get a higher voltage like 3 V or so...and then I connected it to a 1.5 V motor. It didn't run.. Then I realised current is very low like 20 mAmps or so... So how do I increase the current in it??
bhagath s discribe your electrolyte, carbon electrode
I tried several combinations...Like NaOH/NaCl mix and KOH/KCl mix with different concentrations...In all the cases same problem...low current but very high voltage more than what we need..
bhagath s carbon electrode?
chemicum activated carbon powder on a mesh
Usually the weakest point is carbon electrode - whether it has bad contact (high pressure needed during glueing for good electrical contact) or bad carbon (only special activated carbon works, usual charcoal has too low conductivity. And this gluing method only works for 1mm or larger carbon particles.
and what kind of epoxy glue ? it will reduce contact surface carbon and metal ?
slow-curing epoxy preferred. It glues carbon onto current collectors and so there is good electrical contact with carbon and metal
but glue was electrical isolator ?
glue is isolator, but only small amount of glue is used. Under pressure, is good contact between carbon and metal - glue just fixes this so that pressure can be removed
how we increase voltage, can we connected cell with series connection in one chamber of electrolyte ?
Higher voltage can be achieved by series connection of single cells. Single cells must be in separate chambers.
+chemicum ok prof,
can you recharge the cell and how ?????? thaks very impresive
Aluminum can be only replaced mechanically, but if Zn is used, electrical recharging is possible
How many day ?
Bro. Is there any difference in using commercially available acid washed activated carbon and what you use???
Santhosh Sandy not sure, important is high surface area and good electronic conductivity
But u said that fine activated carbon won't work on epoxy technology
Bro again on big doubt if I have to run 4 w/d 12 v dc motor of max 300 ma and 1.5 kg torque and 300 rpm, how many batteries I have to prepare
I meant carbon dust and epoxy won't work, carbon particles must be 1-3 mm large.
Wht abt that 12 v dc motor
what glue is it
Chemicum I prepared electrodes I got 30 to 40 ohm electrode resistance after preparing battery it gave 1.2 to 1.5 volts and current
sure about 300 A? :)
Reusing carbon electrodes: wash with water, let stand in pure water for few hours then take out and let dry overnight.
More than 300 mamps
But I can't run dc motors I dnt know y
Test your dc motor separately, what is the lowest voltage it starts running and how much milliampers does it take when stalled. Let me know
0:33 my grandma never whooped me, but I'm pretty sure she would have if I scavenged metal from her oven.
How much mAh has?
Must be Active Carbon? Maybe graphite powder?
Can recharge?
recharge mechanically by replacing Al. Porous carbon is better than graphite. mAh and other data we will give soon in a paper
Activated carbon is there to provide Oxygen for cell reaction so graphite might not be a good idea.
Does the type of mesh matter?
Just smaller holes are better and take iron or stainless steel mesh
thanks a lot!
Sir i did just like you and its showing 1.3 volts but when i turn it to ammeter ranges. It always shows zero. Any ideas? (It is lighting led bulbs...)
Check multimeter settings. If it is lighting LEDs, it should give at least tens of mA
@@chemicum thanks for the response. Yes sir, after a lot of tries.... It is giving 80mA. But how to increase it to 2.5A sir? Any ideas?
Yeah, it needs some experience. 80mA is good for the first time
to get 2,5A you need a lot of surface. impossible to get from that small piece. it was 2,5 V cause double cathode in serie with anode. so 1,25v x2
I can't seem to produce any current. Could it be due to resistance in cathode?
maybe, what is the resistance, measured like in the video
There was no short circuit. I tried using just G-clamps to get enough pressure on the Cathode with wood blocks, but I don't think it was enough. I've got some finer grains of carbon, steel plates and a hydraulic press now so hopefully my next test will go better. Resistance through the carbon to the electrode mesh should be fairly minimal? What kind of resistance do you get?
see also my supercapacitor video - resistance was measured there directly at electrodes.
Finer carbon powder does not work well with this technology, it needs a binder like PTFE.
Carbon must be special activated carbon - barbecue coal won't work without high temp activation
So current does actually flow through the carbon producing only a few ohms of resistance. I followed the coffee grinder and sieveing process from the supercapacitor video, but followed the mesh, and pressing parts of this video. Got 2 hrs till it's ready so I'll let you know how the resistance is. My first couple had mega ohm resistance and greater so hopefully these will do better lol.
yup, megaohms does not work, it must be a few ohms across the electrode, or at least less than kOhm.
so Can I use graphite batteries
أفكار بسيطة graphite work better, yet it has a bur low surface area
Has somebody built a real large scale functioning car with Al-air battery
+Abu Simbel At home - not jet. But these have been prepared for a military application and at least one company develops these for a civil use.
your cell generated 2500mA but at how many volts, 1.5V-2V-3V?
It is 1.65 V per single cell at the beginning, but it falls to 1 V quickly.
Only 1 problem, it will not recharge so you have to replace the battery every time
Yeah, it is rather a fuel cell in this respect. Formed aluminum oxide is electrolysed back to metal aluminum outside in a cryolite bath.
I like the idea of using the mesh. I don't like the idea of using glue or the press. There are other ways to get the carbon to stick to the mesh and not having to press the mesh. To be practical, using sewer cleaner won't work. You need to have a natural acid solution to use instead. If society fell there would be no stores to go to, but there would be plenty of carbon ash and metal lying around. Even human urine would do as an electrolyte. All in all, I like the presentation and the video.
The other methods are not homemade stuff and hydroxide is better for Al-air compared to acid
why need steaming ?
the heating and pot is just needed to cure the glue faster. Alternatively, it can be just left curing overnight at room temperature.
HiI really love your jop We are waiting your next big super capThank you for all your great jop
Working on it.... but science takes time
Could u please provide ur mail id I have some doubts regarding the battery
everyone would like to hear those
Chemicum can we power arduino uno using this
Santhosh Sandy a few cells in series or a step-up voltage converter
A few means how much approximately
What voltage arduino needs?
4-6 cells
0:56 tfw you almost see your bones sticking out of your arm :/
Me tegime laboritöö praktikumis sama asja ja meile näidati seda videot. "Pipe Hedgehog"-i juures hakkas kogu praksirühm naerma, sest see on liiga hea tõlge!
Mujal on väga erinevad sellelaadsed tooted, et me ei leidnud sellist rahvusvahelist kaubamärki ja jäigi kodune siil.
you didnt really need to heat it
no, but the glue dries faster when heated
@@chemicum can I use another glue like fevicol ?
shiva_giri maybe, you should test its durability in alkaline solution
@@chemicum if it is durable them can I use it ?
@@chemicum actually I am building a car for my college event
torusiil on drain pipe cleaner või ka lihtsalt drain cleaner :)
tänks naeru eest muidugi.. :D otsetõlge on alati lõbus.
At the end it's volts not Amps. You would need many such packets to get 3.5 Amps. Good vid.
look closer at the multimeter, and you see it set to Ampere, not Voltage.
Am I the only one who thinks this is a scam? I love this stuff and recently had lots of time reading about different things like SOFC and iron flow batteries but haven't seen something so power dense in any of them in fact if this is true then I see why it didn't replace the Li-ion battery already (except for the size restraints probably).
The homemade device here is very real and has short time power 1 W/33cm2=33 mW/cm2. In contrast, commercial SOFC gives continuously 1000 mW/cm2
@@chemicum Thank you for taking the time to answer my question, I will hopefully work on one of them in my coming masters program.
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awesomee!! :)
@1:00 XD
breaking bad!
Sensacional
woow awesome topic
Noone here understands the significance of this besides me! I will make the next generation of batteries.
you think you are alone ?