Thanks for reminding me why I don’t go to Cars & Coffee, Group Drives, or anything with random strangers! I always roll solo in my toys. Drive them properly, no PPF, and swap them out if/when the joy fades.
So timely. I’ve started shopping for my first Porsche. I walked into a Porsche dealership and you would have thought I had walked off the set of the walking dead. Complete crickets. Absolutely everyone in there ignored that I was in their dealership. Thanks so much for the great content!
My experience too. It’s off putting for me at least. I guess it’s just how they do business. Once I sat down with them to build the car and order it the “experience” was great.
@@Gadfly2025 Yes the M4 was an option for me too. It is a beautiful car and is loads of fun to drive. Can’t go wrong with BMW or Porsche. The 911 has been on my bucket list for as long as I can remember. What really enabled for me to pull the trigger is the wide back on all 911’s. So the 992 was exactly what I was looking for. It just sits on the road so well.
People complain either way, either they are all over you, or they ignore you. There's a happy middle area that involves the buyer interacting, as they get a lot of tire kickers much like we as owners do when we sell. Their brand sells itself they don't have to over sell.
In my opinion it depends on the dealership because my experience was the total opposite. I was greeted when I first entered and a sales representative came to assist me within 10 minutes, which was perfect because it allowed me time to look at the vehicle in private before speaking to the representative. Once he arrived the experience was flawless. Best car buying experience I’ve ever had hands down.
The Porsche caste system has always been there. My first was in 1964, a 1500$ speedster. I used to go to parades, shows and swap meets and two tshirts would let you know exactly who was wearing them. "So they built Porsches after 1965 but who the hell cares" and "real Carreras have four cams". The know it alls, the correct freaks, the racers etc. But it was in good fun. My current and newest is a 73S and a 67S. When I go to c&c or god forbid a PCA event I'm looked at as a curiosity or pitied that I don't have (read can't afford) a new GT3. It's just a new younger group with probably the same biases and ownership goals as the old days. So you had the 356 generation looking down at the 900 generation, then the post 73 groups etc. I think its humorous that some get so serious and wound up. Porsche ownership is still fun for me at my level, fast enough and relatively straight forward to work on.
I just posted this on another TH-cam video about the new GT3. - Porsche used to be an enthusiast brand and car company. They were always pricy but within reach of an enthusiast that prioritized their discretionary income to have the best driver’s car. Today, you have to be an elite buyer that is able to afford the prices that can go $100K+ over MSRP for a GT /Turbo/special Ed car. And a lot of times you have to be ‘chosen’ as worthy of an allocation based on your spending history. - 👆This has translated to the used market now and you have more speculators and those wealthy folks looking to ‘invest’ rather than true enthusiasts that want to drive. - End result… as a Porsche enthusiast, I bought an Emira.
Always appreciate Porsche “old heads” who offer suggestions, helpful advice, constructive criticism and help us newbies avoid mistakes they have made and/or seen. Those “brow beaters” are exactly the types that make engaging with the community a less than ideal experience. IMHO, of course.
This is an excellent conversation! I got my first new 992.1S in January this year. I saved up for years to put myself in this very fortunate position. I am 51. I love driving the things. I can not see myself just letting it sit there. There is too much fun to be had. PS from my experience the Porsche community is very similar to Rolex and to some extent AP..
Great video. I have owned many p cars and loved each one for its unique character. As part of PCA I have found most owners are just enthusiasts who love to drive their cars.
Another great video, Will! I drive my Cayman 987.1 ALL the time and have lots of rock chips at this point. It's also very clean, but I'm not scared to drive it at all.
It's funny you mention the "model snob" because I'm on my second year of ownership of my first Porsche (which I adore and am extremely passionate about) and plan very much on owning more/different models. Mine is water cooled, and I asked my well trusted indie mechanic shop, am I really missing *that* much of an experience by not owning an air cooled for my DD? Their answer - nope. I'm glad they didn't withold the opinion by not deifying the driving/owning experience vs it's usefulness. Do I still want an air cooled? Of course! But having unsugared opinions in the community matters a lot in the community.
I've had my 89 930 for the last 15 years and I drive it any chance I can. Cars are meant to be driven, especially P cars! I know it's value has skyrocketed, but who cares! Friends have told me to sell it while the value is high..but why!! I hold this vehicle dear to my heart. As a young kid I fantasized about these cars and now I can enjoy every moment owning one!! If you bought a car like this as an investment, then shame on you for making it about value and not about an experience.
Just bought my first 911! 2018 Carrera 4S, Sapphire Blue. 16k miles on it and I’m gonna drive the wheels off it! It’s gonna be my daily driver for sure!
I’ve encountered all of the types you’ve mentioned at Porsche events in & around Toronto 🇨🇦 I bought my 1st Porsche (2008 Cayman S) this past August. Hate to say it, “Porsche People”, in my area at least, are majority assholes 😂 Next season, I’ll go on the driving tours and interact less with the people involved. Love your channel btw ❤
That sucks to hear. I just bought my first Porsche this past June and was also a 987.1S (07 Cayman S). I had the complete opposite. Everyone in Porsche has been super nice and welcoming for me. Definitely no looking down from 911 folk. As a cayman owner, it feels more inclusive in Porsche than BRZs are to Subaru guys with STIs/WRXs which is kind of funny. Got more waves from modern turbos than wrx owners lol. Keep looking and the right crowd will be found
I cant afford beyond 987 or 997. On the point of perfect cars im dying to find a well maintained example with blemishes to avoid being afraid to daily drive it. I can see minor accident history hurts value. Sometimes i think that might be the better idea and forget the whole resale fear. I also like to tinker, so Ill be changing trans mounts and such. It was between this and a sailboat. Now THAT is a money pit of a hobby. Ill be the Porsche hermit. The friends i have are already made. One from 30 years ago has a beautiful 997 Turbo. Theres my club.
I have my 1st Porsche on order, expected to arrive Dec-Feb, a 2025 718 BGTS. I've had various "summer" cars since 2010, and only drove them when nice weather, so no rain, and certainly not in snow / slush with all that salt on the road. I drive my summer cars 6,500 to 9,500 kms a year, from April to November. As for reving, that's what sold me on this car, as I was going to get a 718 s.
What about the “Model Snob” that HAS bought, sold & evaluated … & thus has solid opinions that can be shared? .. I do agree that experts should FIRST ask questions about what a new buyer might enjoy (& maybe what their threshold of pain is for DIY etc). But in the circle of PCA folks I know, many do provide excellent wide-range of advice BASED on the new guys view (of their own desires).
The discussion regarding online auctions definitely hits home for me. I've sold a few cars on BaT and twice the negative comments have really affected my result. One vehicle I sold on BaT I thoroughly expected to do $90k or better and it sold for $72.5k due to negative comments IMO. Subsequently, the buyer held it for a couple months and flipped it at Mecum for $120k. To me, this absolutely proves the comments did cause some pause with bidders of my auction.
what about the hoarder? someone that buys as many as they can get their hands on and just lets them rot out in a field or in a barn and won't budge on letting it go to a better home.
Indeed I hammer on and push my 3.2 liter 986 to red line often! It's not a Corvette afterall... those guys never drive enthusiastically 😂 And I've replaced/upgraded virtually everything including a replacement motor, transmission (with upgraded second gear lockout etc.) I still hammer the flat six!
On my first group drive with my 911, I witnessed a few “boy racer” types slow the entire highway down to do a drag race, then later a 997 turbo overtook a Range Rover on a dusty shoulder well above 100mph. I can only imagine what the underside of that poor 997 looked like after throwing rocks 20 feet in the air
Yes. Good information. Been there and seen some of these things even outside the brand. The flipper: the Epstein of the car world. I had a 996 years ago. Then stepped away from porsche for a long time. Looking to come back. BUT, maybe not.
Thinking about future content….can you go in more depth on the sorting process for an air cooled car? Other than relying on your mechanic to give you a thumbs up, how do you know your car is ready to take on a 1000 mile weekend? What do you keep with you on rallyes and long road trips?
It would be great to hear your insight on ideal experience order in your opinions for the 911, (ie suggest start with a 2.7 or an SC and then go from there? Etc.)
totally get the lugging the car comment, buuuttt.. at least with the 997.1 non turbo models you can't drive that specific engine above 3000rpm until the engine is warmed up. Sometimes, that warmup can take me a good 20 minutes. What can you do then? I have to drive it light or risk damaging the engine. That said, once up to temp, I'm always driving it hard it does seem to drive way better when I do that.
These 7 types of owners are exactly why I dont join or participate frequently in certain marque only events and drives… there are assholes and nice pple in each community (Ferrari lambo Porsche Audi bmw etc) regardless, but those always in the same groups or marques are the ones that’s close minded, snobs or entitled… I love porsches for what they are but there are many things that they are not, if u keep an open mind u will meet so many awesome lambo Ferrari and McLaren owners, also why I don’t favor one over the other, u have to own them all to know their respective charms and communities
It’s my dream to have a Porsche 993 trip Tronic I always wanted to stick, but fortunately I had an aneurysm on my right side and cannot drive it, but I will take a Tronic I will even take it with high mileage. I really really want one. They’re asking a lot of money. I’m willing to pay 40k if anybody knows of one I will buy one high mileage, please
OMG can we add an 8th category? The know-nothing know it all. The person who’s been in the hobby for 3 minutes, has no idea what they’re talking about, but runs around “educating” everyone. And honorable mention to the Top Gear regurgitators who run around telling everyone what Jeremy Clarkson once said about a car. Yeah, it was the most highly watched reality based program worldwide, we all saw it. But thanks for telling us! 😀👎🏻
Truer words were never uttered, owning a porsche is a hobby, akin to stamp collecting wonderful to look at but not useful, they are a black hole, a endless money bucket, ever component will fail and repair cost are out the roof.
Thanks for reminding me why I don’t go to Cars & Coffee, Group Drives, or anything with random strangers!
I always roll solo in my toys. Drive them properly, no PPF, and swap them out if/when the joy fades.
So timely. I’ve started shopping for my first Porsche. I walked into a Porsche dealership and you would have thought I had walked off the set of the walking dead. Complete crickets. Absolutely everyone in there ignored that I was in their dealership. Thanks so much for the great content!
My experience too. It’s off putting for me at least. I guess it’s just how they do business.
Once I sat down with them to build the car and order it the “experience” was great.
I waked out of useless Porsche dealer and bought M4 and C8 cheaper than the 911 I was interested in . No regrets as 2 distinctly different fun cars .
@@Gadfly2025
Yes the M4 was an option for me too. It is a beautiful car and is loads of fun to drive. Can’t go wrong with BMW or Porsche.
The 911 has been on my bucket list for as long as I can remember. What really enabled for me to pull the trigger is the wide back on all 911’s. So the 992 was exactly what I was looking for. It just sits on the road so well.
People complain either way, either they are all over you, or they ignore you. There's a happy middle area that involves the buyer interacting, as they get a lot of tire kickers much like we as owners do when we sell. Their brand sells itself they don't have to over sell.
In my opinion it depends on the dealership because my experience was the total opposite. I was greeted when I first entered and a sales representative came to assist me within 10 minutes, which was perfect because it allowed me time to look at the vehicle in private before speaking to the representative. Once he arrived the experience was flawless. Best car buying experience I’ve ever had hands down.
The Porsche caste system has always been there. My first was in 1964, a 1500$ speedster. I used to go to parades, shows and swap meets and two tshirts would let you know exactly who was wearing them. "So they built Porsches after 1965 but who the hell cares" and "real Carreras have four cams". The know it alls, the correct freaks, the racers etc. But it was in good fun. My current and newest is a 73S and a 67S. When I go to c&c or god forbid a PCA event I'm looked at as a curiosity or pitied that I don't have (read can't afford) a new GT3. It's just a new younger group with probably the same biases and ownership goals as the old days. So you had the 356 generation looking down at the 900 generation, then the post 73 groups etc. I think its humorous that some get so serious and wound up. Porsche ownership is still fun for me at my level, fast enough and relatively straight forward to work on.
I just posted this on another TH-cam video about the new GT3.
-
Porsche used to be an enthusiast brand and car company.
They were always pricy but within reach of an enthusiast that prioritized their discretionary income to have the best driver’s car. Today, you have to be an elite buyer that is able to afford the prices that can go $100K+ over MSRP for a GT /Turbo/special Ed car. And a lot of times you have to be ‘chosen’ as worthy of an allocation based on your spending history.
-
👆This has translated to the used market now and you have more speculators and those wealthy folks looking to ‘invest’ rather than true enthusiasts that want to drive.
-
End result… as a Porsche enthusiast, I bought an Emira.
Always appreciate Porsche “old heads” who offer suggestions, helpful advice, constructive criticism and help us newbies avoid mistakes they have made and/or seen. Those “brow beaters” are exactly the types that make engaging with the community a less than ideal experience. IMHO, of course.
Haven’t purchased my first Porsche yet but I know following this channel I’ll make a better decision.
This is an excellent conversation!
I got my first new 992.1S in January this year. I saved up for years to put myself in this very fortunate position. I am 51. I love driving the things. I can not see myself just letting it sit there. There is too much fun to be had.
PS from my experience the Porsche community is very similar to Rolex and to some extent AP..
Enjoy the ride!
I agree, the ride is what's its all about. The 911 is the best car I have ever driven hands down. Congratulations and have fun.
Great video. I have owned many p cars and loved each one for its unique character. As part of PCA I have found most owners are just enthusiasts who love to drive their cars.
Glad you brought up the woman Porsche owner.
Another great video, Will! I drive my Cayman 987.1 ALL the time and have lots of rock chips at this point. It's also very clean, but I'm not scared to drive it at all.
It's funny you mention the "model snob" because I'm on my second year of ownership of my first Porsche (which I adore and am extremely passionate about) and plan very much on owning more/different models.
Mine is water cooled, and I asked my well trusted indie mechanic shop, am I really missing *that* much of an experience by not owning an air cooled for my DD? Their answer - nope. I'm glad they didn't withold the opinion by not deifying the driving/owning experience vs it's usefulness. Do I still want an air cooled? Of course! But having unsugared opinions in the community matters a lot in the community.
I've had my 89 930 for the last 15 years and I drive it any chance I can. Cars are meant to be driven, especially P cars! I know it's value has skyrocketed, but who cares! Friends have told me to sell it while the value is high..but why!! I hold this vehicle dear to my heart. As a young kid I fantasized about these cars and now I can enjoy every moment owning one!! If you bought a car like this as an investment, then shame on you for making it about value and not about an experience.
👍same with my 993C4S what do u do with the lame money 😎I bought it new
Just bought my first 911! 2018 Carrera 4S, Sapphire Blue. 16k miles on it and I’m gonna drive the wheels off it! It’s gonna be my daily driver for sure!
I’ve encountered all of the types you’ve mentioned at Porsche events in & around Toronto 🇨🇦 I bought my 1st Porsche (2008 Cayman S) this past August. Hate to say it, “Porsche People”, in my area at least, are majority assholes 😂 Next season, I’ll go on the driving tours and interact less with the people involved. Love your channel btw ❤
That sucks to hear. I just bought my first Porsche this past June and was also a 987.1S (07 Cayman S).
I had the complete opposite. Everyone in Porsche has been super nice and welcoming for me. Definitely no looking down from 911 folk. As a cayman owner, it feels more inclusive in Porsche than BRZs are to Subaru guys with STIs/WRXs which is kind of funny. Got more waves from modern turbos than wrx owners lol. Keep looking and the right crowd will be found
I cant afford beyond 987 or 997. On the point of perfect cars im dying to find a well maintained example with blemishes to avoid being afraid to daily drive it. I can see minor accident history hurts value. Sometimes i think that might be the better idea and forget the whole resale fear. I also like to tinker, so Ill be changing trans mounts and such. It was between this and a sailboat. Now THAT is a money pit of a hobby. Ill be the Porsche hermit. The friends i have are already made. One from 30 years ago has a beautiful 997 Turbo. Theres my club.
I have my 1st Porsche on order, expected to arrive Dec-Feb, a 2025 718 BGTS. I've had various "summer" cars since 2010, and only drove them when nice weather, so no rain, and certainly not in snow / slush with all that salt on the road.
I drive my summer cars 6,500 to 9,500 kms a year, from April to November.
As for reving, that's what sold me on this car, as I was going to get a 718 s.
Looking forward to this one!
Great video! One of your best, well done.
Kind of ironic that categori nr. 2 is the very core of what you are doing in this video … 😏
Love this podcast! I just realized there were more episodes to the podcast than you have on youtube! Going to catchup on the other episodes now!
What about the “Model Snob” that HAS bought, sold & evaluated … & thus has solid opinions that can be shared? .. I do agree that experts should FIRST ask questions about what a new buyer might enjoy (& maybe what their threshold of pain is for DIY etc). But in the circle of PCA folks I know, many do provide excellent wide-range of advice BASED on the new guys view (of their own desires).
The discussion regarding online auctions definitely hits home for me. I've sold a few cars on BaT and twice the negative comments have really affected my result. One vehicle I sold on BaT I thoroughly expected to do $90k or better and it sold for $72.5k due to negative comments IMO. Subsequently, the buyer held it for a couple months and flipped it at Mecum for $120k. To me, this absolutely proves the comments did cause some pause with bidders of my auction.
Maybe the buyer had others comment to puncture the auction. Commentary should be turned off for these auctions
Awesome! Always enjoy.
what about the hoarder? someone that buys as many as they can get their hands on and just lets them rot out in a field or in a barn and won't budge on letting it go to a better home.
I keep showing my wife blue 911s just hoping 🥰
Need to see a another video of your 911 996 Porsche C4S!!!!! Looking forward!!!! Greeting from Madrid Spain!!!!
Think I'll skip the shows after watching this. Appreciate the honesty.🤔
Indeed I hammer on and push my 3.2 liter 986 to red line often! It's not a Corvette afterall... those guys never drive enthusiastically 😂
And I've replaced/upgraded virtually everything including a replacement motor, transmission (with upgraded second gear lockout etc.) I still hammer the flat six!
Oh, this is all quite true!!
On my first group drive with my 911, I witnessed a few “boy racer” types slow the entire highway down to do a drag race, then later a 997 turbo overtook a Range Rover on a dusty shoulder well above 100mph. I can only imagine what the underside of that poor 997 looked like after throwing rocks 20 feet in the air
Yes. Good information. Been there and seen some of these things even outside the brand. The flipper: the Epstein of the car world. I had a 996 years ago. Then stepped away from porsche for a long time. Looking to come back. BUT, maybe not.
I have sold several cars on the online auction channels and sometimes the troll is trying to scare the competition hoping to buy it cheaper.
Thinking about future content….can you go in more depth on the sorting process for an air cooled car? Other than relying on your mechanic to give you a thumbs up, how do you know your car is ready to take on a 1000 mile weekend? What do you keep with you on rallyes and long road trips?
Summary: Be like Susan, Derek, and Will. 🙏
It would be great to hear your insight on ideal experience order in your opinions for the 911, (ie suggest start with a 2.7 or an SC and then go from there? Etc.)
totally get the lugging the car comment, buuuttt.. at least with the 997.1 non turbo models you can't drive that specific engine above 3000rpm until the engine is warmed up. Sometimes, that warmup can take me a good 20 minutes. What can you do then? I have to drive it light or risk damaging the engine. That said, once up to temp, I'm always driving it hard it does seem to drive way better when I do that.
Cool episode I don’t own a Porsche but I dream of owning one at some point🤞
I own a 2019 991.2 GT3RS lizard 🦎 Green and a 1987 911 carrera convertible Air cool life 😎 I love all Porsche's
These 7 types of owners are exactly why I dont join or participate frequently in certain marque only events and drives… there are assholes and nice pple in each community (Ferrari lambo Porsche Audi bmw etc) regardless, but those always in the same groups or marques are the ones that’s close minded, snobs or entitled… I love porsches for what they are but there are many things that they are not, if u keep an open mind u will meet so many awesome lambo Ferrari and McLaren owners, also why I don’t favor one over the other, u have to own them all to know their respective charms and communities
I amazed how many air cooled owners let the cars just rot away and not do anything with them! WoW!!
It is the same with all car brands....
I was about to comment that too
It’s my dream to have a Porsche 993 trip Tronic I always wanted to stick, but fortunately I had an aneurysm on my right side and cannot drive it, but I will take a Tronic I will even take it with high mileage. I really really want one. They’re asking a lot of money. I’m willing to pay 40k if anybody knows of one I will buy one high mileage, please
You've done this subject already. It went bonkers? Over 12 views.
There men to be driving on weekends and enjoy
OMG can we add an 8th category? The know-nothing know it all. The person who’s been in the hobby for 3 minutes, has no idea what they’re talking about, but runs around “educating” everyone. And honorable mention to the Top Gear regurgitators who run around telling everyone what Jeremy Clarkson once said about a car. Yeah, it was the most highly watched reality based program worldwide, we all saw it. But thanks for telling us! 😀👎🏻
Truer words were never uttered, owning a porsche is a hobby, akin to stamp collecting wonderful to look at but not useful, they are a black hole, a endless money bucket, ever component will fail and repair cost are out the roof.