Great video! I mostly agree with you about using one hand to help the other in tricky passages, but I have definitely heard professional pianists discourage this practice. For example, in Robert Taub's book, "Playing the Beethoven Piano Sonatas", he specifically states that the performer should not redistribute the hands in any passages unless instructed to do so by the composer. He mentions many passages in Beethoven's sonatas where the performer might be tempted to redistribute the hands such as in the op. 2 no. 2 sonata first movement measures 84 - 91 where Beethoven specifically writes a very difficult fingering for just the right hand, while the passage could be made much easier by using both hands. He states on page 27 "a moderately skilled pianist could play this passage instantly in such a manner. However, the division between the hands makes it sound like unstylistic and simplified Liszt (he would have used interlocking octaves!), too pointillistic and probably too fast. Beethoven's fingering specifically guards against this result." Boris Giltburg discusses this section in this video at about 9 minutes and states that the statement is unplayable for most pianists without big hands (which I tend to agree with). He leaves it up to the performer to decide: th-cam.com/video/wegxLu5t2Ck/w-d-xo.htmlsi=-trlk2DXV_LrAUK7&t=540
Yes, I feel like the discussion of "not rearranging notes" is a fairly popular one that you do hear talked about often. I think there's maybe a fear that students and/or up and coming pianists will redistribute the notes all over the place and mess up passages that should not be redistributed. I feel these musicians/teachers/performers are focused on the times when it does create a real problem. However, at the same time, if you watch videos of top pianists play (think something flashy like Liszt) you will see performers reaching up and taking notes often with their left hands. So I guess you could say my point of the video is really raising awareness about the issue. I would rather my personal students look for the opportunity to switch and ask themselves if there's a good reason not to, rather than a blanket no. And as you mentioned, hand size is definitely a huge reason to do so. I would say of my examples of this video, the Chopin Ballade is the most controversial. I don't think rearranging the middle voice chords is a problem at all, but using an octave at times for sure is something you should consider. But yes, I feel like a good bonus 10-15 minutes could be used to discuss the issue deeper, but I didn't want the video to drag on too long 🤣. Short version "Yes, it can be bad and famous people say it's bad. But also yes, it can be good and famous people do it. So explore for yourself in each particular passage rather than one blanket rule." Thanks for the detailed comment and specific examples!
I wish I’d thought of this sooner. I recently rediscovered the Pathetique and brought it to “perfection”, but some jumps like this took a while to patch. Your opening statements are too real😂 this is an important lesson to be used in even crazier repertoire for sure Edit: also, in the heroic polonaise (op. 53), I believe there are tricky octave trills in the right hand. I played the bottom part of the octave with my free left hand! Awesome video
Awesome! That's my hope, to kind of open your eyes to look for them. But yeah, some people think it's against the law, 🤣 Thankfully they'll never know if they're just watching and you don't tell them.
@@ryanabshier It's important to know how to work your way around technical issues AND enhance with ease like the purpose of this video. It'll be at the top of my head whenever I play further pieces for sure
Well... it depends. Maybe the answer is to follow the gesture and not playing it metronomically. If you want to express the appogiatura as beethoven wrote it, you will have to slow down and express it, instead of tricking it with fingering in order to fit it. I recomend the masterclas from Malcom Bilson "Knowing the score" that also deals with a similar passage (an octave jump in one hand at the begining of a Berthoven sonata) and explains why it is expressively important for it to be "difficult".
I don't disagree at times. For example, there are moments when Chopin writes 3 consecutive moving steps intentionally to be played with the same finger, seemingly to imply slowing down or accenting each one. And I think the Beethoven you are referring to would be Op 106 or 111 (unless we're thinking of different things). So yes, from an artistic standpoint you have to consider when to rearrange, but there are many times when it does really come in handy for some of the reasons outlined here.
Subscribed. :) ty for the info brother!
Great video! I mostly agree with you about using one hand to help the other in tricky passages, but I have definitely heard professional pianists discourage this practice. For example, in Robert Taub's book, "Playing the Beethoven Piano Sonatas", he specifically states that the performer should not redistribute the hands in any passages unless instructed to do so by the composer. He mentions many passages in Beethoven's sonatas where the performer might be tempted to redistribute the hands such as in the op. 2 no. 2 sonata first movement measures 84 - 91 where Beethoven specifically writes a very difficult fingering for just the right hand, while the passage could be made much easier by using both hands.
He states on page 27 "a moderately skilled pianist could play this passage instantly in such a manner. However, the division between the hands makes it sound like unstylistic and simplified Liszt (he would have used interlocking octaves!), too pointillistic and probably too fast. Beethoven's fingering specifically guards against this result."
Boris Giltburg discusses this section in this video at about 9 minutes and states that the statement is unplayable for most pianists without big hands (which I tend to agree with). He leaves it up to the performer to decide: th-cam.com/video/wegxLu5t2Ck/w-d-xo.htmlsi=-trlk2DXV_LrAUK7&t=540
Yes, I feel like the discussion of "not rearranging notes" is a fairly popular one that you do hear talked about often. I think there's maybe a fear that students and/or up and coming pianists will redistribute the notes all over the place and mess up passages that should not be redistributed. I feel these musicians/teachers/performers are focused on the times when it does create a real problem.
However, at the same time, if you watch videos of top pianists play (think something flashy like Liszt) you will see performers reaching up and taking notes often with their left hands. So I guess you could say my point of the video is really raising awareness about the issue.
I would rather my personal students look for the opportunity to switch and ask themselves if there's a good reason not to, rather than a blanket no. And as you mentioned, hand size is definitely a huge reason to do so. I would say of my examples of this video, the Chopin Ballade is the most controversial. I don't think rearranging the middle voice chords is a problem at all, but using an octave at times for sure is something you should consider.
But yes, I feel like a good bonus 10-15 minutes could be used to discuss the issue deeper, but I didn't want the video to drag on too long 🤣. Short version "Yes, it can be bad and famous people say it's bad. But also yes, it can be good and famous people do it. So explore for yourself in each particular passage rather than one blanket rule."
Thanks for the detailed comment and specific examples!
I wish I’d thought of this sooner. I recently rediscovered the Pathetique and brought it to “perfection”, but some jumps like this took a while to patch. Your opening statements are too real😂 this is an important lesson to be used in even crazier repertoire for sure
Edit: also, in the heroic polonaise (op. 53), I believe there are tricky octave trills in the right hand. I played the bottom part of the octave with my free left hand! Awesome video
Awesome! That's my hope, to kind of open your eyes to look for them. But yeah, some people think it's against the law, 🤣 Thankfully they'll never know if they're just watching and you don't tell them.
@@ryanabshier It's important to know how to work your way around technical issues AND enhance with ease like the purpose of this video. It'll be at the top of my head whenever I play further pieces for sure
Well... it depends. Maybe the answer is to follow the gesture and not playing it metronomically. If you want to express the appogiatura as beethoven wrote it, you will have to slow down and express it, instead of tricking it with fingering in order to fit it. I recomend the masterclas from Malcom Bilson "Knowing the score" that also deals with a similar passage (an octave jump in one hand at the begining of a Berthoven sonata) and explains why it is expressively important for it to be "difficult".
I don't disagree at times. For example, there are moments when Chopin writes 3 consecutive moving steps intentionally to be played with the same finger, seemingly to imply slowing down or accenting each one. And I think the Beethoven you are referring to would be Op 106 or 111 (unless we're thinking of different things). So yes, from an artistic standpoint you have to consider when to rearrange, but there are many times when it does really come in handy for some of the reasons outlined here.