Are there any composers that wrote for piano but didn’t play piano themselves? I’d imagine they ended up adding a bunch of those tougher techniques without realizing how hard they are
Well, I usually feel a good example is Dvorak, who played the viola. His piano music, chamber music with piano and his piano concerto are gorgeous, but the piano writing is many times rather uncomfortable.
Although he did play a bit, ravel certainly wasn't a virtuoso pianist. He certainly couldn't play something like gasperd de la nuit Also, Schubert wasn't particularly good. Apparently he couldn't even play his wanderer fantasy which certainly isn't an easy piece but it's certainly not the hardest thing that existed, even at the time
@@bernardosantos6213 Dvorák was in fact a very competent pianist. He even took on piano students at some point in his life. These awkward bits of piano writing likely indicate no more than just a level-headed uncompromising focus on the music rather than accomodating the performer in an ergonomic sense. Beethoven was the greatest piano virtuoso of his age and some of his piano works are notoriously difficult. Schumann never got to that point but was good enough that Friedrich Wieck considered him a potential concert pianist despite Schumann being in his early 20s at the time. He had a profound knowledge of piano technique even though his own career was cut short by a finger injury. But, even the most technically able pianist will look at the score in sheer terror when learning the Symfonische Etüden or the Toccata for the first time.
Great video, as always! What do you think about making a video on explaining what are some of the styles of music/dances, like Gigue, Passacaglia, Gavotte, Sarabande, and so on?
Anyone (remotely human) familiar with Schubert's Erlkönig knows exactly why repeating octaves are, rather aptly, in the death category 🥲 Also, very comforting to know that even for a professional some stuff falls into those higher categories. Some struggles are universal! 😅
"You'll never make anyone happy" - Inspirational quote by Ryan Anyone else ever played something correctly, had someone tell you you were doing it wrong, and you had to patiently listen to them 'demonstrate' the "right" way, even though you KNOW you did it right, just to not hurt their feelings?
Lucky that I come from a non-musical family. A number of people took music lessons but stopped playing years ago. Whan asked to play a song at a family gathering nobody would volunteer. I can play any piece in front of people and nobody would criticize my playing. At least not in the family circle.
The thing about playing an arpeggio is that if you're just playing 3 or 4 notes, it's not difficult. Just put your fingers over all the notes and rotate your wrist to get all the notes. If you have to do an arpeggio continuously for several octaves depends. When playing Pop music or improvised music, people often play arpeggios. These can be done with 1 hand or both alternating (LH plays a 3-note arpeggio, RH plays the same an octave higher, LH plays the same an octave higher, etc.)
@@moy9022 I didn't do moving octaves, but I probably should have. Yeah, hand size makes such a big difference. Often the smaller hands don't mind scales as much, so there are positives too.
Have you ever encountered 10ths? I have very very large hands and I can reach tenths (though no further) comfortably, but many people seem to have issues with them.
For me it's jumping back and forth between tenth notes or 12th notes (notes far apart) at an allegro or higher speed. Also octaves when it's constant and the main source of melody.
Another aspect people tend to ignore is the transition between measures. Lot of times the meaures themselves are simple enough in terms of technique but to move onto the next measure requires a quick resetting of the hands to a new contortion or context. I find lot of mozart and beethoven sonata are difficult due to this. Lot of young brash students believe their skill prowess is showcased in a "slam dunk" or some circus technique (ie lot of times in rachmaninoff or liszt or some composers way over their head) and by applying a lot of murky pedaling that they can avoid true critique. The clarity of transition between measures in more classical pieces at a fast tempo, properly, is something i find they lack because they focus too much on the circus technique rather than studying true "ball handling, passing, reading offense, etc" skills
Great video! i'm about 4 months into relearning piano and i'm learning liebestraum no1, the double trills were way too brutal so i left out one of the notes
Id put repeated octaves in terrifying and 4-5 trills in death, gliss octaves also lower tha death. The la campanella piece where 4-5 trills exist is just really awkward for my right hand. I am actually good at repeated octaves, yeah ive had people tell me they hate them, I dont know why. Like hungarian rhapsody no 6 isnt terrible for me. And for double murky bass which I probably would ignore anyway, but if I had to actually do it, I take a very small lift off with both hands and reset, I can do it much faster, but still not as fast if I did it as a smooth motion which then my hands yes do what you showed, thumbs play at the same time pinky play at the same time. Id move double trill to death, repeating notes to little scary.
Some techniques you missed: Regular octaves (legato/staccato), fast chords, leaps, tremolos, double notes (varying intervals), polyrhythms. Otherwise a great list
Polyrhythms aren't a technique. They're a musical complexity that messes with your brain but there's nothing inherently physically demanding about them. In fact, the passages involved may even be really easy if played in isolation.
What about tremolo ? In the ending of Tchaikovsky "Pas d'Action" 4 hands version for example. Surely easier than repeated octaves but I think it's the same kind of suffering ? I don't know if there is a way to relax hands and arms And thanks, I've never heard of octave glissando I will try tomorrow aha
For me personally, the worst piano techniques are tenth tremolos and broken tenths (or intervals wider than this!), and you can see this a lot in some of Liszt's 1840s pieces. They are absolutely scary, especially if they are on the right hand and if you can't even barely reach that width-span. Major tenth tremolos are just hell.
I'd put 4-5 trills in death, for sure. Getting them to the same speed as, say, a 1-3 trill just doesn't seem possible for my hands. Almost as difficult in some cases are 1-2 trills where you play notes an octave (or more) above the trill, such as in Liszt's Galop in A minor or Beethoven's Waldstein sonata. They're very uncomfortable, even for hands on the bigger side.
Thanks for the comment on “portato”! My first realization of what a confusing thing thst is was in … Schumann, Album for youth (!!!🫣), The poor orphan: I looked at my teacher and asked: How am I suppose to this legato-staccato thing?!? 😂
octave glissandos are impossible for me, they're terrifying - i can reach a 9th, but a 10th (which is what is required for octave glissandos) is too far for me..
10th glissando is literally easy, all you need is a big hand it's not a difficult technique whatsoever it's just luck if your genetics are good enough to give you a big hand or not
@@Juusturull-eo6mx I considered them, but I had to leave out some things. And honestly between trills and rotation they're kinda covered. Not completely, but again, had to make some cuts.
@@olliemartinelli4034 if you haven't you should give the rotation trill a shot. Sometimes it really helps smooth things out and not tense up. Try learning it on thumb-middle finger like I did in the video.
Are there any composers that wrote for piano but didn’t play piano themselves? I’d imagine they ended up adding a bunch of those tougher techniques without realizing how hard they are
Well, I usually feel a good example is Dvorak, who played the viola. His piano music, chamber music with piano and his piano concerto are gorgeous, but the piano writing is many times rather uncomfortable.
Although he did play a bit, ravel certainly wasn't a virtuoso pianist. He certainly couldn't play something like gasperd de la nuit
Also, Schubert wasn't particularly good. Apparently he couldn't even play his wanderer fantasy which certainly isn't an easy piece but it's certainly not the hardest thing that existed, even at the time
@@bernardosantos6213 Dvorák was in fact a very competent pianist. He even took on piano students at some point in his life. These awkward bits of piano writing likely indicate no more than just a level-headed uncompromising focus on the music rather than accomodating the performer in an ergonomic sense.
Beethoven was the greatest piano virtuoso of his age and some of his piano works are notoriously difficult. Schumann never got to that point but was good enough that Friedrich Wieck considered him a potential concert pianist despite Schumann being in his early 20s at the time. He had a profound knowledge of piano technique even though his own career was cut short by a finger injury. But, even the most technically able pianist will look at the score in sheer terror when learning the Symfonische Etüden or the Toccata for the first time.
Im an aspiring young composer still learning piano and I have to admit there are many pieces of mine I can't play
Ravel played piano but apparently couldn’t even attempt gaspard de la nuit
Thanks!
Your lesson is helpful.☕ thanks again.
@@moy9022 thanks a bunch for your support! Really appreciate it
@@moy9022 oh yeah, I was drinking some coffee right after reading this 👍
Something for you to add to the bag: double note gliss. And make them go up and down
Great video, as always! What do you think about making a video on explaining what are some of the styles of music/dances, like Gigue, Passacaglia, Gavotte, Sarabande, and so on?
Anyone (remotely human) familiar with Schubert's Erlkönig knows exactly why repeating octaves are, rather aptly, in the death category 🥲
Also, very comforting to know that even for a professional some stuff falls into those higher categories. Some struggles are universal! 😅
Also Hungarian rhapsody no 6!!
@@kauhiahauki singers are like "hey there, can you accompany my little short song?"
"Sure!"
"Good, it's Erlkönig"
😲😳
Entertaining and informative as always! Thanks!
The true hardest piano technique? One that not even greats like Rachmaninoff could never get right? Overcoming stage fright.
For TH-cam pianists, the hardest piano technique is video quality.
"You'll never make anyone happy" - Inspirational quote by Ryan
Anyone else ever played something correctly, had someone tell you you were doing it wrong, and you had to patiently listen to them 'demonstrate' the "right" way, even though you KNOW you did it right, just to not hurt their feelings?
Lucky that I come from a non-musical family. A number of people took music lessons but stopped playing years ago. Whan asked to play a song at a family gathering nobody would volunteer. I can play any piece in front of people and nobody would criticize my playing. At least not in the family circle.
Trilling with 45 is diabolical
@@majornewb haha, I know. And it's so on purpose by the composer too
The 5-3 trillion in beethoven 32 is a literal lifesaver for me
That’s why 53 trills exist
You have to use 45 in moonlighsonata
@@christopherwood6514 Yeah, kind of a cheat code for larger hands, but you take what you can, lol.
The thing about playing an arpeggio is that if you're just playing 3 or 4 notes, it's not difficult. Just put your fingers over all the notes and rotate your wrist to get all the notes. If you have to do an arpeggio continuously for several octaves depends. When playing Pop music or improvised music, people often play arpeggios. These can be done with 1 hand or both alternating (LH plays a 3-note arpeggio, RH plays the same an octave higher, LH plays the same an octave higher, etc.)
Octave glissando in Beethoven’s Waldstein 3rd movement is pure horror for me😂
For sure. I put it up at the top for you!
great video!
@@robertzsizsnyovski8657 thanks for checking it out!
Thanks Ryan for introducing all the piano techniques. I have small hands, playing octaves is challenging for me.😢
@@moy9022 I didn't do moving octaves, but I probably should have. Yeah, hand size makes such a big difference. Often the smaller hands don't mind scales as much, so there are positives too.
@@ryanabshier I have no problem doing scales. Looking forward for your next posting.
Have you ever encountered 10ths? I have very very large hands and I can reach tenths (though no further) comfortably, but many people seem to have issues with them.
@@MusicalElle good luck to you with piano .
As a struggling beginner, it's all hard.
Except Jazz. I make a mistake in my piano lesson? It's Jazz.
How long have you been playing for?
Ornaments in Rameau are like Terrifying
real
Good video !
Controlling dynamics is hard too, specially if the same hand must do different ones
Idk about that one
The most difficult technique to master in piano is the vibrato.
I know right! I've been trying to master that for 14 years of playing piano 😂
@@pineapplesareyummy6352 just shake your head...simply 🤣
For me it's jumping back and forth between tenth notes or 12th notes (notes far apart) at an allegro or higher speed. Also octaves when it's constant and the main source of melody.
What is the difference between portato and detached legato????
I’ve recently discovered Alkan and nearly all of his music is terrifying especially the repeated octaves in his Etude op. 39 No. 11, Overture.
Another aspect people tend to ignore is the transition between measures. Lot of times the meaures themselves are simple enough in terms of technique but to move onto the next measure requires a quick resetting of the hands to a new contortion or context. I find lot of mozart and beethoven sonata are difficult due to this. Lot of young brash students believe their skill prowess is showcased in a "slam dunk" or some circus technique (ie lot of times in rachmaninoff or liszt or some composers way over their head) and by applying a lot of murky pedaling that they can avoid true critique.
The clarity of transition between measures in more classical pieces at a fast tempo, properly, is something i find they lack because they focus too much on the circus technique rather than studying true "ball handling, passing, reading offense, etc" skills
Great video! i'm about 4 months into relearning piano and i'm learning liebestraum no1, the double trills were way too brutal so i left out one of the notes
The mazeppa 2-4 2-4 thirds are terrifying
4-5 trills are absolutely in the death category.
Id put repeated octaves in terrifying and 4-5 trills in death, gliss octaves also lower tha death. The la campanella piece where 4-5 trills exist is just really awkward for my right hand. I am actually good at repeated octaves, yeah ive had people tell me they hate them, I dont know why. Like hungarian rhapsody no 6 isnt terrible for me. And for double murky bass which I probably would ignore anyway, but if I had to actually do it, I take a very small lift off with both hands and reset, I can do it much faster, but still not as fast if I did it as a smooth motion which then my hands yes do what you showed, thumbs play at the same time pinky play at the same time. Id move double trill to death, repeating notes to little scary.
Some techniques you missed: Regular octaves (legato/staccato), fast chords, leaps, tremolos, double notes (varying intervals), polyrhythms. Otherwise a great list
Polyrhythms aren't a technique. They're a musical complexity that messes with your brain but there's nothing inherently physically demanding about them. In fact, the passages involved may even be really easy if played in isolation.
Also maybe hand crossing
Dude idky why but i LOLed so hard at 14:17 with you moving your hands so fast 😂😂😂
@@astrosandorbits5532 🤣🤣🤣 magic hands.
What about tremolo ? In the ending of Tchaikovsky "Pas d'Action" 4 hands version for example. Surely easier than repeated octaves but I think it's the same kind of suffering ? I don't know if there is a way to relax hands and arms
And thanks, I've never heard of octave glissando I will try tomorrow aha
For me personally, the worst piano techniques are tenth tremolos and broken tenths (or intervals wider than this!), and you can see this a lot in some of Liszt's 1840s pieces. They are absolutely scary, especially if they are on the right hand and if you can't even barely reach that width-span.
Major tenth tremolos are just hell.
lol i have small hands and tbh repeted octaves arent that bad but trilling with 45 is the death of me lol also 3 trilling is hard for me
9:01 reminds me of Chopin Etude Op.25 no.6
Are double thirds a fingers only thing or is there wrist/forearm movement involved?
It's 90% fingers
I'd put 4-5 trills in death, for sure. Getting them to the same speed as, say, a 1-3 trill just doesn't seem possible for my hands. Almost as difficult in some cases are 1-2 trills where you play notes an octave (or more) above the trill, such as in Liszt's Galop in A minor or Beethoven's Waldstein sonata. They're very uncomfortable, even for hands on the bigger side.
Rotation is surprisingly difficult in pieces like beethoven Waldstein sonata, which is the prime reason why it's way harder than it looks
Chopin etude op 10 no 5?
In a real piano glissando is such a pain for me in the fingers 😢
Thanks for the comment on “portato”! My first realization of what a confusing thing thst is was in … Schumann, Album for youth (!!!🫣), The poor orphan: I looked at my teacher and asked: How am I suppose to this legato-staccato thing?!? 😂
I find octave portato to be quite challenging.
I would have put wide jumps with two hands in opposite directions somewhere.
octave glissandos are impossible for me, they're terrifying - i can reach a 9th, but a 10th (which is what is required for octave glissandos) is too far for me..
No chromatic glissandos 😢
Shout out to Liszt and his 10th glissando
Where
10th glissando is literally easy, all you need is a big hand it's not a difficult technique whatsoever it's just luck if your genetics are good enough to give you a big hand or not
@@LocksVid it’s not easy to have good genetics, and even if you can barely do a 12th you can’t do upwards 10ths glissando
Chord tremolo
To me jumps are most challenging
You didn't have to clarify that you don't know any gang signs. I know. Lol😅
@@Hollycb12 🤣 as is probably obvious from EVERYTHING about me...
porteito portato
You forgot tremolosssss
@@Juusturull-eo6mx I considered them, but I had to leave out some things. And honestly between trills and rotation they're kinda covered. Not completely, but again, had to make some cuts.
Bro.. repeated octaves are the easiest technique ever, repeated notes and straight octaves clear it easy, and I know cause I’m learning the HR6
You spent 3 months getting 10/4 to practice tempo, there’s no way you’re doing hr6 LOL
I have been piano since the age of six and still can't trill properly lol, my fingers just don't let me
@@olliemartinelli4034 if you haven't you should give the rotation trill a shot. Sometimes it really helps smooth things out and not tense up. Try learning it on thumb-middle finger like I did in the video.
@@ryanabshier yeah I commented before it'd seen the rotation technique and my mind was blown haha. Thank you!
hiiii
I have small hands for Someone my age, i can play a tenth
And octave gliss is not difficult imo
Ok Marc-Andre Hamelin 😂