I tried the "DEX" from MHW3 and couldn't get a consistent shot, no matter what grind setting I used. However, this video has inspired me to give it another go. I was using a dark roast, before, which wasn't the freshest I've tried. I have a 10-day-old medium roast which I will try, later. Thanks for the video 👍
I have the 18g DEX. Using it everyday. Definitely better than stock basket. Shots were more complex, more flavour notes brought out. You should definitely have another go!
I struggled with my DEX and VST baskets but it turns out that my Lelit Fred grinder wasn’t up to the job. Upgraded to e better grinder and I’m really happy with the DEX
A lot of those look like knock-offs of the much more expensive and likely higher quality Sworks and Wafo baskets, like the Kafmasino Impeta is a lot like the Sworks Citrus Slice basket. I'm not a huge fan of the company, but the Weber workshops unifilter basket is about the same price maybe a little more than the Pesado HE, originally the Unibasket was more expensive, they dropped the price supposedly when they switched to an more efficient manufacturing process. Weber does tend to over-charge for shipping though depending on where you live. You say you're not sure about the claims they make about these baskets, but you did notice the Impeta that has a citrus slice look to it, brought out more acidity! Which if you look at Sworks site, on their original designed Citrus basket, they describe it as doing JUST THAT (which I thought might have been nonsense just because how it looked coincidentally correlated with how it tasted!?) I tried the Normcore version of the Wafo Spirit, it's like a bad knock off, it bends / deforms so much the coffee comes out convex/concave. I also didn't like the results, felt like something was missing from the coffee, maybe the holes were way too large and flow rates were too high on that one, it needed a very fine grind size. Similarly didn't love the IMS Big Bang basket but at least they were original with that one, some people seem to love it. I forget why but I remember just not being too impressed. Not sure I like the idea of controlled channeling, I think it's going to give you a more uneven extraction and is counter-intuitive. I actually think stock baskets (especially the tapered edge ones) are good for easier nicer looking extractions and if you want easier less channely espresso (great for starting out) The older upgraded precision baskets (not special high extracting or weird design ones) by VST and IMS I found were more finicky and often resulted in more channeling, it had a higher clarity, higher extraction vs stock baskets but you also have less room for error, so higher potential to make a great coffee but I found often it might give me a worse coffee. Stock baskets give you more body, more blended flavours generally, also better not amazing coffee, and most medium or darker roasts as a result! The Weber basket I actually expected it to be even more finicky than IMS or VST but I found it to be very forgiving, vs Pullman / Decent / VST type regular precision baskets, I get a higher success rate and more flavour clarity and punch which I believe is due to higher extractions, without the coffee being too intense, not bitter or sour usually, just stronger flavour. I haven't tried the Pesado or other high extracting baskets really to compare but I'm happy with the Weber basket for now. One downside of the higher extracting baskets is that they're usually thicker metal so coffee particles get stuck in the holes and is harder to clean out, so it's best to always use a bottom paper filter with them. Also helps with knocking the pucks out.
Lance has said something to the effect of paper filters give you around 90% of the precision basket benefit. And, there is the added benefit of pucks coming out very clean, and no holes being clogged. It would be interesting to see how these baskets perform with paper filters VS a VST with paper filter.
@@paul--b it’s much less significant than saturated fat. It might depend on whether you’re a hyper absorber of cholesterol or not (like with eggs on serum LDL). The literature does show some correlation with unfiltered coffee on higher LDL compared to paper filter. It’d be great to see a study to control for it. Meanwhile, I’ll continue to use paper for the benefits you mentioned already and retest my ApoB.
Great video, @homecafecharlie ! I'm sure not all stock baskets are created equal. Was this test with the Nuova Simonelli stock? I know you have an Silvia Pro X and I thought that came with IMS made stock baskets.
I don't have the pro X anymore unfortunately, I had to sell it when I left Japan (wrong voltage for UK and shipping would have been expensive). But yes not all stock baskets are made equal - it's about the number and pattern of holes, but most stock baskets are similar and can't hold a candle to most precision baskets
Check local distributors. I got my Pesado HE in the UK from Functional Accessories and the shipping wasn't much. Not sure who the distributors in the US are, but worth checking cos it'll be cheaper for shipping
@@homecafecharlie yes i understand but the DEX are a very old model from mhw , after that they got the BEP out and it was nice but had some flaws and the got the BEP v2 out few months ago and its very hard to beat for the price . Even few weeks ago they had 15g BEP v2 for sale that look very interesting too
Pesado US has $20 shipping for under $100... And nothing else i want to buy to make up the difference. $78 shipped is rough. No apparent US distributer too. I'm not sure why pesaso USA is charging $20 for shipping a single basket other than upsell or margin padding.
Hi, I currently have DEX in 15g and 18g. I recently ordered IMS B702TH24.5M because of its different, rounded shape. However, it has significantly fewer holes than DEX. I'm also waiting for BEP 2.0. What do you think about this IMS basket? Have you tested it?
How are the BEP and DEX so far? I'm only interested in how both are durable to deformation? Because the stock basket comes with the espresso machine will always be deformed whenever i pull a shot
@@whoami724y it's very durable, stainless steel. Honestly one of the best baskets on the market in this price. BEP has more sweet flavour but it's really hard to clean. DEX is more neutral and very easy to clean and daily use.
Nice video. So crazy how many basket designs have flooded the market. When is "very soon" regarding the Philos? That's very, very intersting to hear your take on.
Just gotta switch the burrs and test the other set for a few weeks before I render my final verdict. So far it's great, but certainly not perfect (nothing is)
Very honest review...thanks a lot for making this video!! I agree precision baskets are definitely an upgrade in the espresso game but comparing each one minutely is kinda insane and unreasonable, given the spectrum of coffee and coffee drinkers is too wide to be generalised
I agree, it isn't really possible. Too many variables especially with the equipment an average coffee person has. In short, just buy any PF basket you like. They are all much better than stock!
Well... it's the reverse for me. I have VST baskets and my coffee is ground extremely fine. With the VST the machine does not develop 9 bars. When I use cheapo ridged baskets that taper at the bottom, the machine works better and pulls better shots. The cheapies are "Brewvana" I got on Amazon for $7. Machine is a Turin Capriccio and the grinder is a Eureka La Specialita, so I'm working with good equipment. My machine just doesn't like the straight-wall baskets for some reason. Go figure. Do whatever works.
Yeah that's not a bad grinder so it doesn't make sense that you can't grind fine enough for the basket. Your burrs might be misaligned so you get channelling when you go finer. Worth doing a burr alignment test. If that's what it is, then forget baskets, you'll get immediately better coffee from the grinder being properly adjusted.
I have both the Pesado and Weber Workshops baskets and frankly, the Weber leaves little to be desired. I called BS on Weber a long time ago. While I do live the EG1 and the Moonraker (which many would call BS on as well), the precision baskets aren't anything to go out and get if you can get your hands on the Pesado baskets.
normcorewares has a new pvd coated HE basket. Worth a try, for me it was a middle ground between a VST and a Pesado w/o the clogging holes of the pesado :)
You're right, smaller grind particles have a larger surface area relative to their weight. So for a finer grind size, which you need to do to get a good extraction in a precision basket, it will have a larger surface area, so it is a more complete extraction of the grinds, which leads to a higher extraction percentage. It's possible to get overextracted this way, but for espresso since the total volume is low I find it almost impossible to overextract a coffee that is ground and distributed correctly. If you're not channelling and getting a good extraction timing in a standard 1:2 ratio shot, I don't think the equipment exists yet to overextract that coffee. ;)
The time is less important since the grind settings are the same, the main thing is output weight which I tried to keep as close to 1:2 ratio as possible. Without an advanced machine like a Decent this is as close as I could get. It might influence the results a little bit but we're talking a tiny fraction of a %. I also taste tested. Like I said at the end the differences are less clear than manufacturers say, but all of them were significantly better than stock, so basically you should get one cos the stock is bad 🤣
@@PaoloItaliano-k9v Oh I see. I didn't know that. Yeah I think they should standardise the basket fit, and like I said it got stuck in my Flair so I haven't used it for that since. If it fits, it's a killer basket, but it's a shame that it doesn't universally fit
My next coffee machine will be lever. There are only 2 top lever machine on the market: La Marzocco Leva X and Kees van der Westen Spiritello. The last one is just too expensive 😢
I'm stuck between two IMS baskets for my Delongi Dedica 51mm. The main difference is the ammount of coffe they can hold: H22 can hold from 12g - 14g while the H24 range from 14g - 16g. Which would you advice for making expresso only on this machine?
I find it unlikely that no one submitted a question about Brexit. It is irresponsible not to talk about Tory responsibility for this generally agreed mistake and what to do now to remedy it.
I tried the "DEX" from MHW3 and couldn't get a consistent shot, no matter what grind setting I used. However, this video has inspired me to give it another go. I was using a dark roast, before, which wasn't the freshest I've tried. I have a 10-day-old medium roast which I will try, later. Thanks for the video 👍
Good luck with it! It's definitely better than stock 😉
I have the 18g DEX. Using it everyday. Definitely better than stock basket. Shots were more complex, more flavour notes brought out. You should definitely have another go!
@@haziqshams I've taken the plunge and ordered the Pasado. I'll let you know how I get on.
I struggled with my DEX and VST baskets but it turns out that my Lelit Fred grinder wasn’t up to the job. Upgraded to e better grinder and I’m really happy with the DEX
@@RiotBike I think my issue was probably the beans. They weren't fresh. I'm very happy with my DF83.
A lot of those look like knock-offs of the much more expensive and likely higher quality Sworks and Wafo baskets, like the Kafmasino Impeta is a lot like the Sworks Citrus Slice basket.
I'm not a huge fan of the company, but the Weber workshops unifilter basket is about the same price maybe a little more than the Pesado HE, originally the Unibasket was more expensive, they dropped the price supposedly when they switched to an more efficient manufacturing process. Weber does tend to over-charge for shipping though depending on where you live.
You say you're not sure about the claims they make about these baskets, but you did notice the Impeta that has a citrus slice look to it, brought out more acidity! Which if you look at Sworks site, on their original designed Citrus basket, they describe it as doing JUST THAT (which I thought might have been nonsense just because how it looked coincidentally correlated with how it tasted!?)
I tried the Normcore version of the Wafo Spirit, it's like a bad knock off, it bends / deforms so much the coffee comes out convex/concave. I also didn't like the results, felt like something was missing from the coffee, maybe the holes were way too large and flow rates were too high on that one, it needed a very fine grind size.
Similarly didn't love the IMS Big Bang basket but at least they were original with that one, some people seem to love it. I forget why but I remember just not being too impressed. Not sure I like the idea of controlled channeling, I think it's going to give you a more uneven extraction and is counter-intuitive.
I actually think stock baskets (especially the tapered edge ones) are good for easier nicer looking extractions and if you want easier less channely espresso (great for starting out)
The older upgraded precision baskets (not special high extracting or weird design ones) by VST and IMS I found were more finicky and often resulted in more channeling, it had a higher clarity, higher extraction vs stock baskets but you also have less room for error, so higher potential to make a great coffee but I found often it might give me a worse coffee. Stock baskets give you more body, more blended flavours generally, also better not amazing coffee, and most medium or darker roasts as a result!
The Weber basket I actually expected it to be even more finicky than IMS or VST but I found it to be very forgiving, vs Pullman / Decent / VST type regular precision baskets, I get a higher success rate and more flavour clarity and punch which I believe is due to higher extractions, without the coffee being too intense, not bitter or sour usually, just stronger flavour. I haven't tried the Pesado or other high extracting baskets really to compare but I'm happy with the Weber basket for now.
One downside of the higher extracting baskets is that they're usually thicker metal so coffee particles get stuck in the holes and is harder to clean out, so it's best to always use a bottom paper filter with them. Also helps with knocking the pucks out.
Lance has said something to the effect of paper filters give you around 90% of the precision basket benefit. And, there is the added benefit of pucks coming out very clean, and no holes being clogged.
It would be interesting to see how these baskets perform with paper filters VS a VST with paper filter.
Potentially the additional benefit of lowering serum cholesterol from the paper filter too.
@@Trenckyherbs yes, but isn't dietary cholesterol proven to not be correlated with serum cholesterol?
@@paul--b it’s much less significant than saturated fat. It might depend on whether you’re a hyper absorber of cholesterol or not (like with eggs on serum LDL). The literature does show some correlation with unfiltered coffee on higher LDL compared to paper filter.
It’d be great to see a study to control for it. Meanwhile, I’ll continue to use paper for the benefits you mentioned already and retest my ApoB.
Great video, @homecafecharlie ! I'm sure not all stock baskets are created equal. Was this test with the Nuova Simonelli stock? I know you have an Silvia Pro X and I thought that came with IMS made stock baskets.
I don't have the pro X anymore unfortunately, I had to sell it when I left Japan (wrong voltage for UK and shipping would have been expensive). But yes not all stock baskets are made equal - it's about the number and pattern of holes, but most stock baskets are similar and can't hold a candle to most precision baskets
It's a pity that VST is out of the game
They still make baskets right? Maybe they are developing some new ones.
According to the Wired Gormet, VST baskets aren't great.
@@bluemystic7501 who cares what he thinks
@@wakeawaken430 Well he shows the baskets under a microscope and they look like trash. Check out his video.
@@bluemystic7501 I checked also mine and it was more than good
Also, they are the founders, we must show respect
So, Baristas are the new audiophiles?
Lol
$35 dollars shipping!😳 Not today, not tomorrow.🤬
Check local distributors. I got my Pesado HE in the UK from Functional Accessories and the shipping wasn't much. Not sure who the distributors in the US are, but worth checking cos it'll be cheaper for shipping
”Today is the day. NOT tomorrow but today.” -Kamala-🤣😂😂
Why did you test TWO Dex basket e none of the BEP baskets from 3bomber? 🥲😐
Lol they came out after I got the DEX ones. I already spent quite a bit on this video and there are more baskets coming out all the time
Pesado basket has been pretty stellar for me!
I have Pesado and Big Bang. Both always have < 21%. Only problem is Magnetic Dosing Ring can not stick to Pesado Filter.
I do also have an Pesado HE 58,5 L basket and i got a magnetic dosing ring that sticks really well to it, its awesome 😁
@@koffe1298 Please...which dosing ring do you have? 🙏
Its insane how much effort you put into this video
the mhw BEP 2.0 is much better than the DEX for like the same price
I should have bought some for this video but I already spent a few hundred on it and there are always more baskets 😅
@@homecafecharlie yes i understand but the DEX are a very old model from mhw , after that they got the BEP out and it was nice but had some flaws and the got the BEP v2 out few months ago and its very hard to beat for the price . Even few weeks ago they had 15g BEP v2 for sale that look very interesting too
Pesado US has $20 shipping for under $100... And nothing else i want to buy to make up the difference. $78 shipped is rough.
No apparent US distributer too.
I'm not sure why pesaso USA is charging $20 for shipping a single basket other than upsell or margin padding.
Have you mixed up some baskets? When you talk about the Koncentra at 5:10 you say it has 21,47%, but in your tables the Koncentra has 20,91%.
Thanks for spotting! The table is correct, I must have made a mistake in editing.
@@homecafecharlie I guessed it was that way too. And it is still the Koncentra you favor among the cheaper ones?
@@scider2 Yes, I thought it had a really nice flavour profile!
Great video Charlie. I've neen loving the pesado high EY basket
Thanks! It's a beast 😎
Please review the IMS E&B All in One basket too 😊
overall, which basket is the best for flair 58 fellas?
Hi, I currently have DEX in 15g and 18g.
I recently ordered IMS B702TH24.5M because of its different, rounded shape. However, it has significantly fewer holes than DEX. I'm also waiting for BEP 2.0.
What do you think about this IMS basket? Have you tested it?
How are the BEP and DEX so far? I'm only interested in how both are durable to deformation? Because the stock basket comes with the espresso machine will always be deformed whenever i pull a shot
@@whoami724y it's very durable, stainless steel. Honestly one of the best baskets on the market in this price.
BEP has more sweet flavour but it's really hard to clean. DEX is more neutral and very easy to clean and daily use.
Nice video. So crazy how many basket designs have flooded the market.
When is "very soon" regarding the Philos? That's very, very intersting to hear your take on.
Just gotta switch the burrs and test the other set for a few weeks before I render my final verdict. So far it's great, but certainly not perfect (nothing is)
A tapered IMS basket came with my machine and I'm afraid to try anything else. It's just too good.
Try something else. Go on, I dare ya! 😏
Very honest review...thanks a lot for making this video!!
I agree precision baskets are definitely an upgrade in the espresso game but comparing each one minutely is kinda insane and unreasonable, given the spectrum of coffee and coffee drinkers is too wide to be generalised
I agree, it isn't really possible. Too many variables especially with the equipment an average coffee person has. In short, just buy any PF basket you like. They are all much better than stock!
Well... it's the reverse for me. I have VST baskets and my coffee is ground extremely fine. With the VST the machine does not develop 9 bars. When I use cheapo ridged baskets that taper at the bottom, the machine works better and pulls better shots. The cheapies are "Brewvana" I got on Amazon for $7. Machine is a Turin Capriccio and the grinder is a Eureka La Specialita, so I'm working with good equipment. My machine just doesn't like the straight-wall baskets for some reason. Go figure. Do whatever works.
Maybe your Eureka needs burr alightment if it can't choke your machine with all baskets.
Yeah that's not a bad grinder so it doesn't make sense that you can't grind fine enough for the basket. Your burrs might be misaligned so you get channelling when you go finer. Worth doing a burr alignment test. If that's what it is, then forget baskets, you'll get immediately better coffee from the grinder being properly adjusted.
You don’t need to hit nine bars as long as the shot a decent time
I have both the Pesado and Weber Workshops baskets and frankly, the Weber leaves little to be desired. I called BS on Weber a long time ago. While I do live the EG1 and the Moonraker (which many would call BS on as well), the precision baskets aren't anything to go out and get if you can get your hands on the Pesado baskets.
The Pesado one is great. Really enjoying the espresso out of it particularly with light roasts
Small nit "leaves little to be desired" means the opposite! It means it satisfies so many desires that there are few left!
normcorewares has a new pvd coated HE basket. Worth a try, for me it was a middle ground between a VST and a Pesado w/o the clogging holes of the pesado :)
So many baskets! I have to try it 😝
@@homecafecharlie totally! :D
1:52 don’t finer particles have more surface area and extract slower compared to the same mass with a larger particle size?
You're right, smaller grind particles have a larger surface area relative to their weight. So for a finer grind size, which you need to do to get a good extraction in a precision basket, it will have a larger surface area, so it is a more complete extraction of the grinds, which leads to a higher extraction percentage.
It's possible to get overextracted this way, but for espresso since the total volume is low I find it almost impossible to overextract a coffee that is ground and distributed correctly. If you're not channelling and getting a good extraction timing in a standard 1:2 ratio shot, I don't think the equipment exists yet to overextract that coffee. ;)
I can see that in your graph you have a varying number of time for extraction. Wouldn’t that influence the TDS and so the extraction % ?
The time is less important since the grind settings are the same, the main thing is output weight which I tried to keep as close to 1:2 ratio as possible. Without an advanced machine like a Decent this is as close as I could get. It might influence the results a little bit but we're talking a tiny fraction of a %. I also taste tested. Like I said at the end the differences are less clear than manufacturers say, but all of them were significantly better than stock, so basically you should get one cos the stock is bad 🤣
@@homecafecharlie I have a vst and a Mhw Dex and I prefer the DEX.
The main downside with the Pesado is the ridiculous £20 shipping charge 😠
Check local distributors. In the UK I picked one up from Functional Accessories and the shipping wasn't too bad from what I remember
@@homecafecharlie Thanks for the tip, £3 postage is a hellva lot better :)
Unfortunately Pesado basket doesn’t fit to SAGE/Breville Oracle
I think they have a 54mm one now don't they?
I meant that 58mm doesn’t fit to Breville oracle. There is 58mm portafilter group
@@PaoloItaliano-k9v Oh I see. I didn't know that. Yeah I think they should standardise the basket fit, and like I said it got stuck in my Flair so I haven't used it for that since. If it fits, it's a killer basket, but it's a shame that it doesn't universally fit
My next coffee machine will be lever. There are only 2 top lever machine on the market: La Marzocco Leva X and Kees van der Westen Spiritello. The last one is just too expensive 😢
As long as you don't do blind tastings, everything you say is just a matter of taste
I'm stuck between two IMS baskets for my Delongi Dedica 51mm. The main difference is the ammount of coffe they can hold: H22 can hold from 12g - 14g while the H24 range from 14g - 16g. Which would you advice for making expresso only on this machine?
I don't know about the Delonghi, but go with the one you want. You want more coffee, get the bigger one 😉
Go for the h24 one
The h22 can be a bit too small when you happen to have some low density dark roasts at home for 14g doses
I find it unlikely that no one submitted a question about Brexit. It is irresponsible not to talk about Tory responsibility for this generally agreed mistake and what to do now to remedy it.