I really think they are setting up A War of Jokes and Riddles to let them use already an established villain in Riddles in this universe and joker who is the most recognized euper villain around the real world. Using this story line lets them also use villains we already know of that may also be in arkham or outside of it that are forced to choose sides in this war. My theories are bane, league of shadows, two face, maybe mad hatter, maybe puppet master, more villains like that. War of Jokes and Riddles also leads directly into court of owls. Which is hinted at many times in the movie and by the cast and director. This also let's them use Robin as well in the second film potentially.
You can see the 3rd paper clip is missing in the 2nd picture, after Joker returned those files to Batman. Joker must be already working on his escape plan.
At firt I didnt get why they left this out but the more I've seen it and thought about it, I realise it's because Joker makes so many predictions about Riddler that all come true that Riddler's own reveal wouldnt have been as impactful. This scene works realllllly well as smth released after the fact but having it all foreshadowed so plainly and unsubtly would've taken away from the actual main villain of the movie. Still glad we got to see the scene regardless tho
dude if this have been in the movie everyone would've completely forgotten about riddler, especially considering how actually wack Riddler was in the movie, idk who was playing him but his acting was just over the top amount of cringe
@@0912sooli I'm not opposed to the sequel referencing the deleted scene being with a lil "Told ya" or smth just to have that hang over the character but it totally would've messed with the movie flow
@@accountnew7030 Idk man I didnt find it cringe at all. Like I cant even imagine what bits you might consider to be cringey and I can typically do that
@@BTBSOUNDS yeah I think most of the world is with you, don’t worry. I don’t think many people think riddler was cringe at all. They played into the typical riddler campiness by having him be eccentric and loud/shouting when he is getting his point across but as I said, that’s typical for the character. Wasn’t anything cringe about it.
Actually Matt revealed that this one got a disease, a laughing disorder, 2nd his skin disease sort thing we can see his hairloss, skins wer swollen etc
@@theinspiredmindYT the problem with the skin disorder is that the skin disorder is focused on the hands and the face. Skin disorders typically present throughout the body without bias. On top of that, Reeves, mentioned the Joker having a congenital disease. That could explain the smile and the laughing, but those don’t usually go with skin conditions. If it’s a second congenital disease dictating the skin condition, that’s a problem - 1) congenital skin diseases are rare and in most cases fatal and 2) if this conditions are dictated by two separate congenital diseases, most likely Joker wouldn’t even be functional. If Reeves wants to make this grounded, I’m sure he took those into account, but even then some of these conditions I wouldn’t expect a director to know about. A lot of these look like lesions following chemical exposure. Finally Mat Reeves is the same guy that went as far as telling the press that Barry Keoghan was cast as Officer Merkel to keep his Keoghan’s surprise role as the Joker hidden.
The one issue with this scene - and probably why it was pulled - is that Joker pretty much figures out everything correctly, or very close to it. They may have felt that it lead people's thoughts down directions they might not have otherwise, and spoiled what Riddler considered The Batman to be in relation to himself. (edit to fix typo)
Yeah, that's what I thought. On one hand, it shows how EXTREMELY smart the joker is, but it also kinda spoils the mystery of the Riddler, if that makes sense
@@WanderingNerd21 completely makes sense - among all the other things Joker gets right is that Riddler is a fan, and putting that into the head of the audience does spoil the revelation of Riddler and where he sees the Batman/Riddler relationship. I love this scene, but think releasing it after the movie was the right call. It shows why Joker is Batman's greatest adversary - he's not just insane, he's *intelligent* and insane. Since we already know the story, it doesn't spoil anything.
@JW The competency part wouldn't bother me that much. He's a young Batman, still learning. Even seasoned investigators sometimes bring in outside subject experts to help. Batman is observing Joker break down the Riddler through the pictures and psych write-up - and he'll remember that, so next time he can figure it out himself.
@JW agreed, there would've been continuity issues on top of kind of spoiling key plot points. It's a cool scene to watch *after* one has seen the movie.
@@WanderingNerd21 I do like the fact it makes him look smart. I tend to suspend disbelief a lot in Batman films because the Joker never seems to be a real threat aside from Ledger’s portrayal, who was a complete wild card Joker. This Joker actually seems to be as smart as, if not smarter, than Batman
The last scene was actually planned to be removed as well, but Matt Reeves said that the movie would completely change because there was no impact when Batman and Catwoman were talking about how Gotham is gonna get worse and all, and it makes sense because it adds to that feeling of "there are still more crazy guys out there".
That's interesting, i didn't know that tidbit. Makes sense. I think they could have gotten the same effect by giving Penguin another scene at the end there in place of Riddler and Joker. Penguin is clearly still going to be around in The Batman 2/3 as the organized crime element of Gotham, regardless of what other bigger villain like Mr Freeze or Joker will be at play in the sequels too. So i think they could have still teased "we're only just scratching the surface of Gotham" with a scene showing Penguin gearing up to take over or amassing power or something. Would have helped the movie still feel self contained and not as much like "sequel bait" as the Riddler/Joker scene did.
@@VMYeahVN yeah it could be, the Penguin will definitely be around, but maybe they didn't do that because the audience already knew that Penguin was around, and imo he didn't feel that much of a threat in the movie so maybe that's why Matt felt the need to show that there are other "Riddlers" out there.
It kinda makes sense why they cut it, this scene dampens the detective abilities of Batman a bit because here he seems so desperate he came to the guy who he put in jail. And also would've taken away from the impact of Riddler and his plan as Joker here seems to point out almost everything accurately as to why the Riddler did what he did. Atleast that's what I think. And i was fine with the Joker tease that was in the movie. It can be called sequel bait but it was so well done that it left me smiling.
But Batman, as a detective, has always investigated using criminals to interrogate them, in order to obtain more information to conclude when this villain acts, his motivations and who he could be, and nothing better than a very smart psychopath to do. a reading from someone else with problems. EDIT: Otherwise, I fully agree. Great scene! A totally manipulative, intelligent and disturbed Joker, just as the character should be portrayed, but which, in my opinion, has never been shown so well in theaters. I think we have a golden opportunity to have the most unlimited interpretation, in the sense of disgust, horror and sickening. I hope that when he is the main antagonist, the movie will be literally horror/suspense, as never seen before, also being for adults, so there are no limitations. Imagine the potential...
@@erycM3 but in this scene, he's the one who's vulnerable imo and Joker seems to be just playing with him rather than giving him something of substance.
@@erycM3 I agree. People act as those this isn’t a new Batman who doesn’t want/need help from time to time. This scene adds so much to Batman. It explains that Bruce knew all along what Riddler goal was but didn’t want to admit it because he would have to face the fact that deep down he agrees with what the Riddler is doing.
I mean, the whole movie basically dampens his detective abilities lol he was never able to get anything from Riddler and he had to clue him in personally. Even then, he was too late to prevent it. For me, it just dampens Riddler's reveal which they built up a lot.
Joker's extended presence and this scene would've diminished the effect of the Riddler as a villainnnn.. given how the joker figured him out in a few seconds
Matt himself debated if the end scene in the prison cells should stay in the movie but he ultimately decided to keep it in because 1. It takes place after the events of Riddler’s bombings and 2. It doesn’t definitively set up Barry’s Joker as a sequel villain it merely confirms that a Year Two version exists in this timeline
That in itself was not necessary for the movie. The movie would've been fine without that scene either way. But it does make sense why Reeves cut this scene out of the final cut as it was too on the nose and felt like it was spoon feeding the intentions of Riddler to the audience.
The way he was laughing in the end is one of the best laughs ive seen….. when the door shut n he continues to laugh looked so real and if a joker was real thats how he would be….. See in the end heaths always on top. But barry Is talented n give credit where its due!
Man ive been 150% on board with this new batman, as soon as the first trailer dropped i was all in...and it honestly just keeps getting better! The only small nit pick i have about the movie is i wish we saw more of paul danos riddler unmasked because that arkam scene was👌 and then they release this god damn give me 3 sequels tomorrow please
The biggest reason I think it shouldn't be in the film and I'm relieved that they cut it - is because it undermines Riddler and his big confrontation scene. Joker basically spells out Riddler's entire motivation on whim. And though it's cool - it undermines Dano big time. The big suspense for a first-time viewer is, WHY Riddler is doing what he's doing. Also, when you show an iconic villain like Joker with such extreme fucked up prosthetics, it's hard for the audience to go back to Riddler, whose not operating at a 110 like Joker is. What i mean is, this scene would've stolen the thunder from Riddler. And I'm glad they didn't do that. Still a fantastic scene and seeing Reeves' vision of a manipulative Joker - I really really dig it.
The way he was laughing in the end is one of the best laughs ive seen….. when the door shut n he continues to laugh looked so real and if a joker was real thats how he would be….. See in the end heaths always on top. But barry Is talented n give credit where its due!
By far one of the few creators on TH-cam that I gravitate towards and respect for my Batman commentary after the AMAZING essays reviews you graced us with. I’ve watched this scene now 6 times because the dialogue is hard to hear. I agree and wish this was in the film but think I understand why they chose to leave it out. Great video Jaby🥰
This is the 1st time we saw batman in his fullest detective form. So the reason of cutting the scene I think is, it's kinda takes away the greatest detective vibe from batman as he is asking for someone else's help to solve the mystery. It also questions his ability of solving something on his own. Joker also reveals almost the whole psychology, motive and goal of riddler in that scene which would have been frustrating to watch as we would have already know these big narrative reveals long before the movie ends. Also it's riddler's movie, not joker's. This scene is too long for just a joker confirmation and aslo would have underwhelmed the riddler character. I think Matt took a great decision of cutting it out.
Lots of talk about is this a good Joker or not, but what about what a beautifully shot scene? The tension, the way that the audio changes if you are in or outside of the cell and the fact that we don’t get everything. Some have claimed that as a deleted scene it did not go through ADR yet to clean up the audio.
Very creepy..kinda felt a twisty the clown vibe which is cool...i think Barry held his own....he left you wanting more and i love that they are emphasizing joker is very intelligent, hes a psycho but hes incredibly smart and can get into your head. i also like in matt reeves world they have already met...and while we know the backstory of these 2 ,,but we only get a glimpse of just how morbid,scary creepy and dark it was..i love the mystery which is what the other Batmans were missing..
I think they removed the scene because it is almost a replication of the Riddler scene in Arkham. Joker actually reveals whole of the motivation of Riddler.
Appreciate you pointed out the bane effect. I didn’t have a good first impression of this scene as I just couldn’t understand what he was saying. Watched it a couple times now and I think it’s great, but I’m left wondering how I would feel in the theatre if I couldn’t understand what he said.
matt reeves actually talked about the joker cameo in the end he said that without it looks like gotham had a happily ever after which is not true basically it increases the stakes
Did anybody notice the missing paper clip from the file that Batman handed him??? There were three and when Batman took it there were two left?? Just me?? Ok then. He’s going to pick the lock and escape
I think this is the creepiest Joker yet. Or I should say, his pre -Joker era. I can see why Reeves left it out. I also think his voice was muffled on purpose to coincide with his blurred image for most of that scene until the end where it's a lot clearer
Jaby, I had straight chills watching this scene. People complaining about Joker being repetitive or are "fatigued" by him can go and kick rocks somewhere else. Are people "fatigued" by Batman or Spider-Man or Marvel? I don't think so. I am already in love with Barry Keoghan's version of the Joker. So freaking satanic and insane. I love the aesthetic to him. The hair, the eyes, the voice, the smile caused by his birth defect, the look of someone who has survived being burned in a vat of chemicals (even though Matt Reeves stated that it isn't the case with this Joker). Everything about this was picture-perfect. I can't wait to see more of him down the line (but NOT in The Batman 2).
Jaby -- you should just like it, mate, this bloody scene. Haha! Barry brings to the table what Joker would really be like in our natural world. Joker did fall into a vat of acid -- he has been through many violent encounters, so, all of those scars are justified -- even his fingernails, (many of which are either disfigured or missing entirely). The voice is brilliant -- it is VERY creepy and unsettling: some of his lines are murmured, that's one of the MAIN points as to why he is so creeper-like! And with a mouth like his, and that damn acid situation, your vocal projection would change. Why just look up the many acid victims we have today. Goodness me, it is heartbreaking to watch. Another thing -- I think, at times, people forget as to how smart the Joker really is. Hell, how many times has he even out-witted Batman himself?! So, when he made mention of the Riddler and Batman having matters in common, it was spot on. Notice in the scene -- the Joker didn't take forever with the Riddler's file -- he merely gave it a brief overview, and still, he noticed how both men are two sides of the same coin: both gentlemen have been severely traumatized, both men have trust and human relations issues -- they both possess high intelligence and are fastidious about whatever projects / puzzles are set before them. This scene should have been in the film, for sure! A side note: there was a paperclip attached to those documents. When the Joker gave the documents back out of a mild case of annoyance with Batman's line of questioning -- notice that the paperclip is no longer with the Riddler's file. (Just sayin'). The Joker is one crafty son of a b*tch.
Easily the most terrifying Joker yet. No makeup on his face, just straight up deformities which causes him to always look like he’s smiling maniacally. Love how when Joker is out of focus in frame, it looks like he’s wearing makeup, and we can piece together what he looks like from the variety of shots, without them providing too much clarity. His intelligence is insane and he psychoanalyzes Batman with ease. I love how they don’t show their history but we already know how their relationship works. Both this joker and Batman are very young and inexperienced, and I love how they aren’t enemies necessarily, just two fucked up and emotionally disturbed characters feeding off each other. I do hope he doesn’t become a central villain until the third movie, but nonetheless, this portrayal of the Joker is darker than ever before and fits perfectly into this Batman universe. Shoutout to Barry.
I remember being about 10 yrs old, watching Batman: The Animated Series when it came out and the Joker's story in that was that he fell into a vat of acid. I always got annoyed thinking you would NOT look like that if you fell into acid. I still loved (and love) The Joker, it was just always in the back of my mind. This Joker is everything I always wanted. This dude looks like he fell in some fucking acid.
This scene was so unsettling, even with most villains in movies I can sort of reason with their morale and actions and really see them as victims or misguided, but not far from redemption. This Joker, however, looks like he has completely snapped, he’s broken BEYOND repair, there’s no reasoning or salvation for someone like him. He’s completely lawless, he has no code, no conscience, he is unsettling and evil. The way I see it, his only aim is to expose society in the same way it exposed him to be: an absolute abomination. To the joker, he is essentially the embodiment of the true nature of society.
I subscribed to your channel because of your “The Batman” reviews! But I see you have Solid Snake behind you as well sir! You are my people for sure!!! ❤️❤️🦇🦇💯💯 thanks for the content!!
I feel like the Joker figures out more than Batman realizes when he points out that the violence is "so Baroque" (or to put another way, messy and irregularly shaped), while his puzzles are so meticulous. This is a huge clue that The Batman is overlooking HOW people were murdered and that it would make sense that The Riddler would be meticulous in the violence (murder weapon) as well.
i think it was a right decision to remove this scene from the final product because then it would have decreased the detective skills of the batman and made us feel like he is dependent (and yeah joker is smart even he is so psycho).
The interesting thing with this Joker too is that Reeves said in an interview, similar to Batman in that this is just year 2 Batman (he's only just BARELY Batman at this point basically), this Joker is early days. He's not "The Joker" yet. So that gives them a lot of room to show his growth into the Joker in the next movie.
All I know is that this portrayal was easily the most unsettling. He felt like he could be a real person. I suppose you could say the same about Arthur Fleck, but there was still a kind of barrier on that portrayal as well...something that stopper you from believing that he could easily be walking around in the real world.
I think having this scene in this movie would've put more attention on the Joker than the Riddler. The fact that Bruce wants to consult the Joker, the way he got absolutely everything right, and the terrifying makeup, sets the bar for the Joker higher than it has ever been.
Aside from the reasons that you pointed out on why this scene got taken out in which I agree, I think it was also because this scene can easily gave off the fact that Riddler was a "fan" of Batman, and his fascination towards Batman gave birth to whatever he's doing as the Riddler. That revelation was supposed to be revealed and made clear by the Riddler himself during the interrogation scene. So putting this scene before that scene could potentially stole the spotlight from the main antagonist.
Joker probably is one of the hardest movie roles an actor can get. And as time passes by, it gets even harder and harder to make the iteration unique from previous Jokers while still maintaining its Joker-ness.
I think this scene really nailed it home the message of the movie, which is his "Vengeance" caused more harm by inspiring criminals to take matters into their own hand, regarding the lives at stake. Also Joker pointed out that deep down Batman thinks these victims deserved to be killed and I think this characterization is overlooked due to the many plots in the movie.
The scene is reminiscent of the scene in the movie MANHUNTER.MANHUNTER came out in 1985 and it was one of the first movies on serial killers and the first time the audience is introduced to Hannibal Lecter and I'm pretty sure the writer had that in his mind.
I think it was always intended to be released later on because this way what joker said about riddler was right after commissioner was murdered and it wouldn't Have made riddler's reveal much impactful. The way reeves planned was much better
Considering The Batman takes place during year 2 of him being Batman, and Joker saying here it was almost their one year anniversary, it would've stretched credibility a bit for me had the scene been included that he at only barely a year in had managed to face and capture the Joker of all criminals already. As presented in the final cut it could be viewed as Batman not yet having crossed his ultimate foe.
What the actual fu- He looks inhumane I have to give it to them man they have successfully made the creepiest looking joker of all time Although heath ledger's version is still the most intimidating but I would not like to be in a room with this joker either
This would ideally be included in the film, because Batman, despite his "brilliant" detective mind, quite often visited the Joker in Arkham to investigate cases and to get advice + Reeves is a good fellow for leaving consequences on the Joker's body after a vat of acid, burns, abrasions, the ugliness itself because of this, unlike the fact that we have seen in previous versions where they were sewn to the nines and without injuries on the body, I even wonder how Reeves would have introduced Superman...Maybe he would be like a Homelander? A bioproduct?
Dude yes! Finally someone that thinks that! I feel like has a really good combination of Mark and Heaths jokers. It blows my mind how no one else says that. They always reference Joaqins but it doesn’t fit to me at all.
I think at this point of time people are trying to find plot holes and problem with this movie if you look at it from the outside this might be the best superhero movie
A younger joker is fine..but honestly, willem dafoe or mark hamill as a physical joker would be fun. I like the younger joker here cause in a way they "grow up" together.the jokers obsession with batman isnt just villainy. He is willing to chat with him and even help him. That is so fascinating
I like the scene, but I understand why it was cut. Personally, I think it was cut because it was repetitive, as we already had the scene where Batman goes to the orphanage and pieces things together about the Riddler from there. Also, I think Barry's performance was so dam good, it would of stolen Paul Dano's thunder as the Riddler. But Barry impressed Matt Reeves so much that he felt compelled to put him in the movie somewhere. Can you imagine putting on all of that makeup and prosthetics, costume, getting into character and then giving a great performance, only for it to be cut. That would suck. So I'm glad they found a way to include him in the movie, even if it felt tacked on, now we know it certainly was not tacked on.
no doubt that performance freaked me out.. fantastic stuff. this version of the joker for me is so realistic and totally an insane genius. barry keoghan is an irish actor and he comes from summerhill in dublin that is litterally a 20 min drive from me..very proud of him as hes doing so well for himself....he was in dunkirk...chernobyl.... marvels eternals and now this beside being in aload of irish movies like 71...and the huge irish crime drama show love/hate... relly hope we see more as him as the joker in this trilogy.
I honestly don’t think Joker is going to be the main villain in the next one. I think Matt just wanted to make the Joker’s presence known because the Joker is a big part of Batman’s story. The best thing would be to set him up, keep him as a side/background villain next movie, and maybe 3rd or 4th film pay it all off with Joker being main baddy. I believe that’s what Reeves is doing.
It's Jocks artwork from the cover of Batman 880 & Lee Bermejo's Joker come to life! & I wonder if he's still recovering from falling in the vat at Ace chemical plant?🤡🦇
This scene was awesome, but I'm glad it's not in the film. I feel like it would have shifted the focus of the movie, since The Joker is such an iconic and important character. Plus, like some other commenters have mentioned, Joker's observations would have affected too much. The ending scene was pretty out of place too, and yeah it would have been cool combined with the deleted scene.
It’’s very silence of the lambs. They would have have to set up something on the Joker to make him relevant to the film. Why would a Batman bring a file to a random inmate? They’d need to establish that in film.
In my honest opinion, this was not included coz that would have taken all the focus away from the riddler, and kept everyone wondering and gasping about this Joker instead. Good that it wasn't included as far as I can tell.
I’m with you in thinking that at least part of Reeves’s decision to cut this scene, was a concern that it might draw the audience’s attention away from the Riddler for the rest of the movie(?)
I think the scene was removed because fans get super hyped about the joker, if this scene took place as the story got going, it might have taken away from Riddler, just my thoughts, what do you guys think about that?
This scene took place after the commissioner died "second murder" So it was too early in the movie to let people know that the batman and the Riddler were somewhat similar in their disdain for the politics/crime of Gotham and they both wanted vengeance albeit different methods. It would have ruined the pacing and reveal. That is what the director Matt Reeves said but not verbatim. Glad they released it though it gives the joker a perfect lift off point.
Or...hear me out they had the scene just as a scene in jail. (The one that made the cut) It's not like Arkham is empty there are others that can have roommates. Like the CW had a Harley Quinn stand-in when the heroes were recruiting a Suicide Squad sometimes villains in prison are just there.
![The Batman 2 - All 7 Villains Set up + New Origin Story For [SPOILERS] Smile (Deleted Scene)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MWZFUU-zU5U/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Batman 2 - All 7 Villains Set up + New Origin Story For [SPOILERS] Smile (Deleted Scene)](/img/tr.png)
If you look carefully, he steals the paperclip from the files
WHOA
Jesus you have the eyes of an eagle🦅
I thought he did something to the files, I assume he planted something but that makes more sense
@CARLOS MENDOZA no need for timestamp, just see the files before and after Joker reads them
I really think they are setting up A War of Jokes and Riddles to let them use already an established villain in Riddles in this universe and joker who is the most recognized euper villain around the real world. Using this story line lets them also use villains we already know of that may also be in arkham or outside of it that are forced to choose sides in this war. My theories are bane, league of shadows, two face, maybe mad hatter, maybe puppet master, more villains like that. War of Jokes and Riddles also leads directly into court of owls. Which is hinted at many times in the movie and by the cast and director. This also let's them use Robin as well in the second film potentially.
You can see the 3rd paper clip is missing in the 2nd picture, after Joker returned those files to Batman. Joker must be already working on his escape plan.
whoa yeah man you are right. Damn joker
Oh shit your right..
or the crew just forgot to put back the clip? You're overthinking it lmao
@@drew_lg2132 it's a fun theory. Chill. You must be a joy to be around
@@drew_lg2132 it is a good theory
At firt I didnt get why they left this out but the more I've seen it and thought about it, I realise it's because Joker makes so many predictions about Riddler that all come true that Riddler's own reveal wouldnt have been as impactful. This scene works realllllly well as smth released after the fact but having it all foreshadowed so plainly and unsubtly would've taken away from the actual main villain of the movie. Still glad we got to see the scene regardless tho
dude if this have been in the movie everyone would've completely forgotten about riddler, especially considering how actually wack Riddler was in the movie, idk who was playing him but his acting was just over the top amount of cringe
But imagine what Batman feels now about the fact how close Joker was
@@0912sooli I'm not opposed to the sequel referencing the deleted scene being with a lil "Told ya" or smth just to have that hang over the character but it totally would've messed with the movie flow
@@accountnew7030 Idk man I didnt find it cringe at all. Like I cant even imagine what bits you might consider to be cringey and I can typically do that
@@BTBSOUNDS yeah I think most of the world is with you, don’t worry. I don’t think many people think riddler was cringe at all.
They played into the typical riddler campiness by having him be eccentric and loud/shouting when he is getting his point across but as I said, that’s typical for the character. Wasn’t anything cringe about it.
Obviously cut because it ruins the reveal at the end, still an epic scene though, Joker actually looks like he fell into a vat of acid 😳
Actually Matt revealed that this one got a disease, a laughing disorder, 2nd his skin disease sort thing we can see his hairloss, skins wer swollen etc
How did his eyes survive though?
@@theinspiredmindYT the problem with the skin disorder is that the skin disorder is focused on the hands and the face. Skin disorders typically present throughout the body without bias. On top of that, Reeves, mentioned the Joker having a congenital disease. That could explain the smile and the laughing, but those don’t usually go with skin conditions. If it’s a second congenital disease dictating the skin condition, that’s a problem - 1) congenital skin diseases are rare and in most cases fatal and 2) if this conditions are dictated by two separate congenital diseases, most likely Joker wouldn’t even be functional. If Reeves wants to make this grounded, I’m sure he took those into account, but even then some of these conditions I wouldn’t expect a director to know about. A lot of these look like lesions following chemical exposure.
Finally Mat Reeves is the same guy that went as far as telling the press that Barry Keoghan was cast as Officer Merkel to keep his Keoghan’s surprise role as the Joker hidden.
@@noctambule5726 skin disease or smth
reminds me of the Joker from the Arkham game, after he falls sick
The one issue with this scene - and probably why it was pulled - is that Joker pretty much figures out everything correctly, or very close to it.
They may have felt that it lead people's thoughts down directions they might not have otherwise, and spoiled what Riddler considered The Batman to be in relation to himself.
(edit to fix typo)
Yeah, that's what I thought. On one hand, it shows how EXTREMELY smart the joker is, but it also kinda spoils the mystery of the Riddler, if that makes sense
@@WanderingNerd21 completely makes sense - among all the other things Joker gets right is that Riddler is a fan, and putting that into the head of the audience does spoil the revelation of Riddler and where he sees the Batman/Riddler relationship.
I love this scene, but think releasing it after the movie was the right call. It shows why Joker is Batman's greatest adversary - he's not just insane, he's *intelligent* and insane. Since we already know the story, it doesn't spoil anything.
@JW The competency part wouldn't bother me that much.
He's a young Batman, still learning. Even seasoned investigators sometimes bring in outside subject experts to help.
Batman is observing Joker break down the Riddler through the pictures and psych write-up - and he'll remember that, so next time he can figure it out himself.
@JW agreed, there would've been continuity issues on top of kind of spoiling key plot points.
It's a cool scene to watch *after* one has seen the movie.
@@WanderingNerd21 I do like the fact it makes him look smart. I tend to suspend disbelief a lot in Batman films because the Joker never seems to be a real threat aside from Ledger’s portrayal, who was a complete wild card Joker. This Joker actually seems to be as smart as, if not smarter, than Batman
I like the fact that the joker was probably one of the Batman’s first villains in his first year. That’s cool to me.
The last scene was actually planned to be removed as well, but Matt Reeves said that the movie would completely change because there was no impact when Batman and Catwoman were talking about how Gotham is gonna get worse and all, and it makes sense because it adds to that feeling of "there are still more crazy guys out there".
That's interesting, i didn't know that tidbit. Makes sense. I think they could have gotten the same effect by giving Penguin another scene at the end there in place of Riddler and Joker. Penguin is clearly still going to be around in The Batman 2/3 as the organized crime element of Gotham, regardless of what other bigger villain like Mr Freeze or Joker will be at play in the sequels too. So i think they could have still teased "we're only just scratching the surface of Gotham" with a scene showing Penguin gearing up to take over or amassing power or something. Would have helped the movie still feel self contained and not as much like "sequel bait" as the Riddler/Joker scene did.
@@VMYeahVN yeah it could be, the Penguin will definitely be around, but maybe they didn't do that because the audience already knew that Penguin was around, and imo he didn't feel that much of a threat in the movie so maybe that's why Matt felt the need to show that there are other "Riddlers" out there.
@@VMYeahVN honestly its more impactful with the two psychos than it is with Penguin
It kinda makes sense why they cut it, this scene dampens the detective abilities of Batman a bit because here he seems so desperate he came to the guy who he put in jail. And also would've taken away from the impact of Riddler and his plan as Joker here seems to point out almost everything accurately as to why the Riddler did what he did. Atleast that's what I think. And i was fine with the Joker tease that was in the movie. It can be called sequel bait but it was so well done that it left me smiling.
But Batman, as a detective, has always investigated using criminals to interrogate them, in order to obtain more information to conclude when this villain acts, his motivations and who he could be, and nothing better than a very smart psychopath to do. a reading from someone else with problems.
EDIT:
Otherwise, I fully agree. Great scene! A totally manipulative, intelligent and disturbed Joker, just as the character should be portrayed, but which, in my opinion, has never been shown so well in theaters. I think we have a golden opportunity to have the most unlimited interpretation, in the sense of disgust, horror and sickening. I hope that when he is the main antagonist, the movie will be literally horror/suspense, as never seen before, also being for adults, so there are no limitations. Imagine the potential...
@@erycM3 but in this scene, he's the one who's vulnerable imo and Joker seems to be just playing with him rather than giving him something of substance.
They removed is because as Joker said he knows how he thinks so it was pointless too to him. Plus he had help all throughout this movie.
@@erycM3 I agree. People act as those this isn’t a new Batman who doesn’t want/need help from time to time. This scene adds so much to Batman. It explains that Bruce knew all along what Riddler goal was but didn’t want to admit it because he would have to face the fact that deep down he agrees with what the Riddler is doing.
I mean, the whole movie basically dampens his detective abilities lol he was never able to get anything from Riddler and he had to clue him in personally. Even then, he was too late to prevent it. For me, it just dampens Riddler's reveal which they built up a lot.
Hands down, creepiest live action joker EVER. PERIOD.
@@_ripVanWinkle_ stop lying to yourself this new joker is creepier than heath ledger
Suits to the most intimidating live action Batman EVER😏
Genz joker.
@@0912sooli yes it does
@@battleaxe8252 well it is movie made for gen z, for the modern generation
Want to see more of This Joker!!! He seems genuinely terrifying
Hi
Joker's extended presence and this scene would've diminished the effect of the Riddler as a villainnnn.. given how the joker figured him out in a few seconds
Matt himself debated if the end scene in the prison cells should stay in the movie but he ultimately decided to keep it in because 1. It takes place after the events of Riddler’s bombings and 2. It doesn’t definitively set up Barry’s Joker as a sequel villain it merely confirms that a Year Two version exists in this timeline
That in itself was not necessary for the movie. The movie would've been fine without that scene either way. But it does make sense why Reeves cut this scene out of the final cut as it was too on the nose and felt like it was spoon feeding the intentions of Riddler to the audience.
The way he was laughing in the end is one of the best laughs ive seen….. when the door shut n he continues to laugh looked so real and if a joker was real thats how he would be…..
See in the end heaths always on top.
But barry Is talented n give credit where its due!
@@shantanu4423 its world building which is what matt intended to do with this film. he's going to be in the Arkham series
@@shantanu4423 I think it's more impactful to the line that Catwoman gives about how Gotham will never change.
Barry Keoghan was also great in the Killing of a Sacred Deer, creepy af
I'm so glad you both watched this separately. It means I get to watch the reaction again but with you instead.
Man ive been 150% on board with this new batman, as soon as the first trailer dropped i was all in...and it honestly just keeps getting better! The only small nit pick i have about the movie is i wish we saw more of paul danos riddler unmasked because that arkam scene was👌 and then they release this god damn give me 3 sequels tomorrow please
He almost looks inhuman, I love it.
The biggest reason I think it shouldn't be in the film and I'm relieved that they cut it - is because it undermines Riddler and his big confrontation scene. Joker basically spells out Riddler's entire motivation on whim. And though it's cool - it undermines Dano big time. The big suspense for a first-time viewer is, WHY Riddler is doing what he's doing. Also, when you show an iconic villain like Joker with such extreme fucked up prosthetics, it's hard for the audience to go back to Riddler, whose not operating at a 110 like Joker is.
What i mean is, this scene would've stolen the thunder from Riddler. And I'm glad they didn't do that. Still a fantastic scene and seeing Reeves' vision of a manipulative Joker - I really really dig it.
The way he was laughing in the end is one of the best laughs ive seen….. when the door shut n he continues to laugh looked so real and if a joker was real thats how he would be…..
See in the end heaths always on top.
But barry Is talented n give credit where its due!
By far one of the few creators on TH-cam that I gravitate towards and respect for my Batman commentary after the AMAZING essays reviews you graced us with. I’ve watched this scene now 6 times because the dialogue is hard to hear. I agree and wish this was in the film but think I understand why they chose to leave it out. Great video Jaby🥰
Aw thank you!
@@CinePals 🥰🥰
This is the 1st time we saw batman in his fullest detective form. So the reason of cutting the scene I think is, it's kinda takes away the greatest detective vibe from batman as he is asking for someone else's help to solve the mystery. It also questions his ability of solving something on his own. Joker also reveals almost the whole psychology, motive and goal of riddler in that scene which would have been frustrating to watch as we would have already know these big narrative reveals long before the movie ends. Also it's riddler's movie, not joker's. This scene is too long for just a joker confirmation and aslo would have underwhelmed the riddler character. I think Matt took a great decision of cutting it out.
OH SHIT JOKER TOOK THE PAPER CLIP FROM THE FILES
Lots of talk about is this a good Joker or not, but what about what a beautifully shot scene? The tension, the way that the audio changes if you are in or outside of the cell and the fact that we don’t get everything. Some have claimed that as a deleted scene it did not go through ADR yet to clean up the audio.
I 100% agree. I think they should have either included this scene, or kept both Joker scenes out. Only leaving in that cameo at the end felt jarring.
Very creepy..kinda felt a twisty the clown vibe which is cool...i think Barry held his own....he left you wanting more and i love that they are emphasizing joker is very intelligent, hes a psycho but hes incredibly smart and can get into your head. i also like in matt reeves world they have already met...and while we know the backstory of these 2 ,,but we only get a glimpse of just how morbid,scary creepy and dark it was..i love the mystery which is what the other Batmans were missing..
I think they removed the scene because it is almost a replication of the Riddler scene in Arkham. Joker actually reveals whole of the motivation of Riddler.
Appreciate you pointed out the bane effect. I didn’t have a good first impression of this scene as I just couldn’t understand what he was saying. Watched it a couple times now and I think it’s great, but I’m left wondering how I would feel in the theatre if I couldn’t understand what he said.
since it's a deleted scene i think it prob would've been better mixed and edited in some aspects, they can always improve it on post production
matt reeves actually talked about the joker cameo in the end he said that without it looks like gotham had a happily ever after which is not true
basically it increases the stakes
This gives me heath ledger joker vibe with different laugh but the way he talks ...
Did anybody notice the missing paper clip from the file that Batman handed him??? There were three and when Batman took it there were two left?? Just me?? Ok then. He’s going to pick the lock and escape
I think this is the creepiest Joker yet. Or I should say, his pre -Joker era. I can see why Reeves left it out.
I also think his voice was muffled on purpose to coincide with his blurred image for most of that scene until the end where it's a lot clearer
Jaby, I had straight chills watching this scene.
People complaining about Joker being repetitive or are "fatigued" by him can go and kick rocks somewhere else. Are people "fatigued" by Batman or Spider-Man or Marvel? I don't think so.
I am already in love with Barry Keoghan's version of the Joker. So freaking satanic and insane. I love the aesthetic to him. The hair, the eyes, the voice, the smile caused by his birth defect, the look of someone who has survived being burned in a vat of chemicals (even though Matt Reeves stated that it isn't the case with this Joker). Everything about this was picture-perfect.
I can't wait to see more of him down the line (but NOT in The Batman 2).
The daredevil figures in the background tho! A daredevil fan too I see. Respect!
To all those complaining about too much Joker, feel the same with too much Vader & Luke Skywalker.
Honestly I’m kinda glad they took this out of the movie because honestly if I saw this I wouldn’t think the Riddlers that big of a threat
man his laugh gave me chills
Did u all look closely, Joker stole the paperclip..😂🙌🙌
joker has more tha 200 iq he is damn smart
Jaby -- you should just like it, mate, this bloody scene. Haha! Barry brings to the table what Joker would really be like in our natural world. Joker did fall into a vat of acid -- he has been through many violent encounters, so, all of those scars are justified -- even his fingernails, (many of which are either disfigured or missing entirely). The voice is brilliant -- it is VERY creepy and unsettling: some of his lines are murmured, that's one of the MAIN points as to why he is so creeper-like! And with a mouth like his, and that damn acid situation, your vocal projection would change. Why just look up the many acid victims we have today. Goodness me, it is heartbreaking to watch. Another thing -- I think, at times, people forget as to how smart the Joker really is. Hell, how many times has he even out-witted Batman himself?! So, when he made mention of the Riddler and Batman having matters in common, it was spot on. Notice in the scene -- the Joker didn't take forever with the Riddler's file -- he merely gave it a brief overview, and still, he noticed how both men are two sides of the same coin: both gentlemen have been severely traumatized, both men have trust and human relations issues -- they both possess high intelligence and are fastidious about whatever projects / puzzles are set before them. This scene should have been in the film, for sure! A side note: there was a paperclip attached to those documents. When the Joker gave the documents back out of a mild case of annoyance with Batman's line of questioning -- notice that the paperclip is no longer with the Riddler's file. (Just sayin'). The Joker is one crafty son of a b*tch.
hell yeah! he planning already the end scene makes more sense now he trying to manipulate riddler and probably use him as he knew he likes riddles
Ok, this movie should get an Oscar nomination for best makeup. First the Penguin, and then this.
Easily the most terrifying Joker yet. No makeup on his face, just straight up deformities which causes him to always look like he’s smiling maniacally. Love how when Joker is out of focus in frame, it looks like he’s wearing makeup, and we can piece together what he looks like from the variety of shots, without them providing too much clarity. His intelligence is insane and he psychoanalyzes Batman with ease. I love how they don’t show their history but we already know how their relationship works. Both this joker and Batman are very young and inexperienced, and I love how they aren’t enemies necessarily, just two fucked up and emotionally disturbed characters feeding off each other. I do hope he doesn’t become a central villain until the third movie, but nonetheless, this portrayal of the Joker is darker than ever before and fits perfectly into this Batman universe. Shoutout to Barry.
Heath would be proud of him
This joker is from new 52 one. That was real freaky joker. He cut his face off.
I kinda like it. It feels way more messed up and sinister than even Ledger's, which is nuts.
Batman looked a bit nervous talking to him. This joker must be extremely dangerous.
when I found out this guy is bros with the other reactor guy...it made me smile. have you two ever done reactions together?
I remember being about 10 yrs old, watching Batman: The Animated Series when it came out and the Joker's story in that was that he fell into a vat of acid. I always got annoyed thinking you would NOT look like that if you fell into acid. I still loved (and love) The Joker, it was just always in the back of my mind. This Joker is everything I always wanted. This dude looks like he fell in some fucking acid.
This scene was so unsettling, even with most villains in movies I can sort of reason with their morale and actions and really see them as victims or misguided, but not far from redemption.
This Joker, however, looks like he has completely snapped, he’s broken BEYOND repair, there’s no reasoning or salvation for someone like him. He’s completely lawless, he has no code, no conscience, he is unsettling and evil. The way I see it, his only aim is to expose society in the same way it exposed him to be:
an absolute abomination. To the joker, he is essentially the embodiment of the true nature of society.
I subscribed to your channel because of your “The Batman” reviews! But I see you have Solid Snake behind you as well sir! You are my people for sure!!! ❤️❤️🦇🦇💯💯 thanks for the content!!
I feel like the Joker figures out more than Batman realizes when he points out that the violence is "so Baroque" (or to put another way, messy and irregularly shaped), while his puzzles are so meticulous. This is a huge clue that The Batman is overlooking HOW people were murdered and that it would make sense that The Riddler would be meticulous in the violence (murder weapon) as well.
i think it was a right decision to remove this scene from the final product because then it would have decreased the detective skills of the batman and made us feel like he is dependent (and yeah joker is smart even he is so psycho).
The interesting thing with this Joker too is that Reeves said in an interview, similar to Batman in that this is just year 2 Batman (he's only just BARELY Batman at this point basically), this Joker is early days. He's not "The Joker" yet. So that gives them a lot of room to show his growth into the Joker in the next movie.
Thats funny I heard everything clearly w/o headphones...
All I know is that this portrayal was easily the most unsettling. He felt like he could be a real person. I suppose you could say the same about Arthur Fleck, but there was still a kind of barrier on that portrayal as well...something that stopper you from believing that he could easily be walking around in the real world.
I think having this scene in this movie would've put more attention on the Joker than the Riddler. The fact that Bruce wants to consult the Joker, the way he got absolutely everything right, and the terrifying makeup, sets the bar for the Joker higher than it has ever been.
Aside from the reasons that you pointed out on why this scene got taken out in which I agree, I think it was also because this scene can easily gave off the fact that Riddler was a "fan" of Batman, and his fascination towards Batman gave birth to whatever he's doing as the Riddler.
That revelation was supposed to be revealed and made clear by the Riddler himself during the interrogation scene. So putting this scene before that scene could potentially stole the spotlight from the main antagonist.
I believe the audio may have been off due to the scene being cut early and no ADR was done on it. But that's just a guess.
Joker probably is one of the hardest movie roles an actor can get. And as time passes by, it gets even harder and harder to make the iteration unique from previous Jokers while still maintaining its Joker-ness.
I think this scene really nailed it home the message of the movie, which is his "Vengeance" caused more harm by inspiring criminals to take matters into their own hand, regarding the lives at stake. Also Joker pointed out that deep down Batman thinks these victims deserved to be killed and I think this characterization is overlooked due to the many plots in the movie.
Looks like something to look forward too...
Barry held his own against Heath despite the some of the writing being copied from The Dark Knight, especially the “ ahead of the curve “ quote
They actually planned for this to be a trilogy
You're right Jaby, just use Mark Hamill. And give him glorious Joker paint!!! One of the DC properties should've used him live action already.
The scene is reminiscent of the scene in the movie MANHUNTER.MANHUNTER came out in 1985 and it was one of the first movies on serial killers and the first time the audience is introduced to Hannibal Lecter and I'm pretty sure the writer had that in his mind.
This gave me chills
I think it was always intended to be released later on because this way what joker said about riddler was right after commissioner was murdered and it wouldn't Have made riddler's reveal much impactful. The way reeves planned was much better
Considering The Batman takes place during year 2 of him being Batman, and Joker saying here it was almost their one year anniversary, it would've stretched credibility a bit for me had the scene been included that he at only barely a year in had managed to face and capture the Joker of all criminals already. As presented in the final cut it could be viewed as Batman not yet having crossed his ultimate foe.
This might be the joker I didn’t know I wanted. Good job Berry, whoever the hell you are.
That heath ledger Joker reference though. 😭
What the actual fu-
He looks inhumane I have to give it to them man they have successfully made the creepiest looking joker of all time
Although heath ledger's version is still the most intimidating but I would not like to be in a room with this joker either
This would ideally be included in the film, because Batman, despite his "brilliant" detective mind, quite often visited the Joker in Arkham to investigate cases and to get advice + Reeves is a good fellow for leaving consequences on the Joker's body after a vat of acid, burns, abrasions, the ugliness itself because of this, unlike the fact that we have seen in previous versions where they were sewn to the nines and without injuries on the body, I even wonder how Reeves would have introduced Superman...Maybe he would be like a Homelander? A bioproduct?
Dude yes! Finally someone that thinks that! I feel like has a really good combination of Mark and Heaths jokers. It blows my mind how no one else says that. They always reference Joaqins but it doesn’t fit to me at all.
BTW the jokers presence in the movie is a pure n pure fan service
I think at this point of time people are trying to find plot holes and problem with this movie if you look at it from the outside this might be the best superhero movie
A younger joker is fine..but honestly, willem dafoe or mark hamill as a physical joker would be fun. I like the younger joker here cause in a way they "grow up" together.the jokers obsession with batman isnt just villainy. He is willing to chat with him and even help him. That is so fascinating
I like the scene, but I understand why it was cut. Personally, I think it was cut because it was repetitive, as we already had the scene where Batman goes to the orphanage and pieces things together about the Riddler from there. Also, I think Barry's performance was so dam good, it would of stolen Paul Dano's thunder as the Riddler. But Barry impressed Matt Reeves so much that he felt compelled to put him in the movie somewhere. Can you imagine putting on all of that makeup and prosthetics, costume, getting into character and then giving a great performance, only for it to be cut. That would suck. So I'm glad they found a way to include him in the movie, even if it felt tacked on, now we know it certainly was not tacked on.
Don't know how anyone could speak down about the batman film. Was Perfection! 🎸⚡⚡⚡
no doubt that performance freaked me out..
fantastic stuff.
this version of the joker for me is so realistic and totally an insane genius.
barry keoghan is an irish actor and he comes from summerhill in dublin that is litterally a 20 min drive from me..very proud of him as hes doing so well for himself....he was in dunkirk...chernobyl.... marvels eternals and now this beside being in aload of irish movies like 71...and the huge irish crime drama show love/hate...
relly hope we see more as him as the joker in this trilogy.
This scene would have stole riddlers time this alone looks better than letos whole joker scene in SS and ZSJL
This Joker honestly reminds me of the Arkham Origins Joker
If Flashpoint opens the multiverse portal for DC, then having multiple version of characters by multiple would be a problem solver.
I honestly don’t think Joker is going to be the main villain in the next one. I think Matt just wanted to make the Joker’s presence known because the Joker is a big part of Batman’s story. The best thing would be to set him up, keep him as a side/background villain next movie, and maybe 3rd or 4th film pay it all off with Joker being main baddy. I believe that’s what Reeves is doing.
His face somewhat reminds me of the new 52 joker, when he cut off his face and sewed or stapled it back on upside down, shit was mad creepy
From what I heard, joker said it was close to their anniversary. Which I thought was really interesting.
Anyone saying this needed to be in the movie is wrong. This would have taken away from the Riddler being the main focus of the theme
It's Jocks artwork from the cover of Batman 880 & Lee Bermejo's Joker come to life! & I wonder if he's still recovering from falling in the vat at Ace chemical plant?🤡🦇
I couldn’t here some of the dialogue as well. Did Christopher Nolan do the sound editing on this scene?
This scene was awesome, but I'm glad it's not in the film. I feel like it would have shifted the focus of the movie, since The Joker is such an iconic and important character. Plus, like some other commenters have mentioned, Joker's observations would have affected too much. The ending scene was pretty out of place too, and yeah it would have been cool combined with the deleted scene.
It’’s very silence of the lambs. They would have have to set up something on the Joker to make him relevant to the film. Why would a Batman bring a file to a random inmate? They’d need to establish that in film.
Amazing performance by barry!!
Don't forget this is year 2!!!
In my honest opinion, this was not included coz that would have taken all the focus away from the riddler, and kept everyone wondering and gasping about this Joker instead. Good that it wasn't included as far as I can tell.
I’m with you in thinking that at least part of Reeves’s decision to cut this scene, was a concern that it might draw the audience’s attention away from the Riddler for the rest of the movie(?)
I really would like Willem defoe to play the joker i think he would be perfect what you all think
Willem should be play Old Joker(60 year old) like in the dark knight return
I think the scene was removed because fans get super hyped about the joker, if this scene took place as the story got going, it might have taken away from Riddler, just my thoughts, what do you guys think about that?
This scene took place after the commissioner died "second murder" So it was too early in the movie to let people know that the batman and the Riddler were somewhat similar in their disdain for the politics/crime of Gotham and they both wanted vengeance albeit different methods. It would have ruined the pacing and reveal. That is what the director Matt Reeves said but not verbatim. Glad they released it though it gives the joker a perfect lift off point.
The Matt Reeves version of Joker is absolutely Terrifying !!!
I would of loved this scene in the big screen but i completely understand why they removed it.
Or...hear me out they had the scene just as a scene in jail. (The one that made the cut) It's not like Arkham is empty there are others that can have roommates. Like the CW had a Harley Quinn stand-in when the heroes were recruiting a Suicide Squad sometimes villains in prison are just there.
Solid audio.
They already said they are making a second one and it will be out before 2025
6:41 that's why subtitles are present lol 🤣
Harley Quinn needs to be really drunk to sit on that face
Or CRAZY.