Arguing with the internet about suppressors
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
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Perfect timing for the upload 😀
Maybe less articulated but i tried to make the same point in our video. If you shoot rifles you most probably shoot supersonics (especially in the case of 5.56) - if you shoot supersonics there is no suppressor that can make them hearing safe - if you use earpro, it doesnt really matter if the suppressor is a bit louder but it matters a lot if you're getting blasted with gasses in your eyes and face.
So if you shoot a lot or shoot multiple rounds in fast succession, flow through suppressors are the way to go
Americans have access to new tech that is changing the paradigm on what was thought possible in Sound Suppression. We have .308 caliber cans now that impart nearly the equivocal risk to the shooter as some .300 BLK subsonic set ups. Just because the bullet goes supersonic doesn't mean the overall signature can't be tame. Most of the noise is the propellant gasses and their associated blast load. Lots of misconceptions with people who own silencers unfortunately.
@@Argentum88 lol, the other way around
If you have a supersonic projectile you wont be able to make it hearing safe unless you attach a 5 meter suppressor that will move the exit point further away from the shooter.
The only way you can make it "hearing safe" is to say that 140 decibels is ok at shooters ear (which is definitely not safe)
Also either you never shot .300blk subsonics with a suppressor or you are just straight up lying. It's crazy to compare it to supersonic .308
The mach wave from the sonic crack is less severe than the physical report of the weapon. @@PolenarTactical
Hearing damage is cumulative. Saying a massive difference at the muzzle or the shooter's ear doesn't matter because "earpro" is insane. I thought Pew Science put this to bed years ago.
@@computer_carnivore what are you talking about?
This should be good, two different groups of people with different use cases talking past each other.
Is sitting in a safe for eternity a use case?
@@Scorch789 Its certainly a fate I’m afraid.
Seems like Ben understands fully the larpers
Most of the people with opinions don’t even own a suppressor
Gun gets dirtier, not "hearing safe", NFA item, shot timer has issues picking up shots..... I don't care for suppressors much. They look cool.
People arguing about what is “better” while ignoring Ben’s criteria.
1 Durability 2 Low maintenance 3 Not gassy. dBs don’t matter to him, at all. He bought the RC3 because he had to have something and he doesn’t have to mess with it. I don’t know why that’s hard to understand.
I guess if you think unsuppressed is fine the selection of the RC3 makes total sense 😂
What's wrong with unsuppressed? Where's yours?
“I think there’s inherent issue with the flow through … there’s gas coming out the front of it, it’s gonna be louder”
This is why RC3 users only compare it to Hux. They do not understand that there’s a bunch of high-flow cans with significantly better muzzle suppression than the RC3 or any Hux.
It sounds to me like Ben needs an Alleycat.
Ben, question that may help these jabronis understand: is it true that you must have a suppressor not because you want one but because you’re teaching in situations where it’s mandated? Therefore your measure of success is simply the one that lasts the longest? Seems completely simple.
he pretty much said as much, I thought. Didnt he say in his last video that his use case is extremely niche?
My buddies are obsessed with suppressors. I have no clue why. I could only ever see myself putting one of my bolt action rifle for hunting or my predator gun.
I don't think it's that complicated. There's a muzzle device that suits peoples needs, if you want flash suppression but don't care about sound, there's a solution for that. If you want maximum recoil reduction with minimal weight increase, there's an option for that. If reduction in sound, flash, and recoil is your goal, that's where suppressors come in, but even then, not all suppressors are going to accomplish the same thing.
I personally want to minimize hearing damage, I also wanted something small and light enough that I wouldn't want to just take it off, and I didn't want to deal with a ton of gas to the face. The Flow 556K works for my purposes. I'm sure that someone else might find a 30cal can more versatile, or maybe they don't need maximal at the ear noise reduction and they just want something that takes a little bit of the bark out of their gun , or maybe someone wants something super quiet, or a can that they can beat the fuck out of and have it keep running with no cleaning.
Think about what works best for you, and buy it, although I would highly suggest borrowing a suppressed gun before you buy one. Get an idea of whether it works for you.
Yeah look the thing with suppressors is you have regular guys that don’t *really* need them but they’re a nice and cool thing to have, those guys are going to nerd out on the pew science ratings etc. none of the high flow stuff does all that great with the exception of newer companies that specialize in those designs (CAT CGS etc), its kind of inevitable that these guys are not going to be interested in that stuff. Then there are the guys who are going to be *ACTUALLY* using them in confined spaces where you have to deal with eating brake blast or getting gas in your face on top of being shot at, yeah I’ll take the RC3 in those situations even if it isn’t the quietest. None of those teams give a shit if the newest boutique silencer shaves 10db off at the shooters ear because they all have earpro anyways, is it going to fucking work when it needs to is the main concern. Also, suppressors suck to shoot with, I get that its been a novelty forever because of the form 4 times but once people start using them they’ll realize how unimpressive they are without a real use case.
This is essentially what my opinion is as well. I’m poor so I have Yhm. Honestly, I only wanted a can for home defense and once or twice a year pig hunting.
@@joie0 perfect use case for a can honestly, for the longest time those were the only real reasons people would stick out the wait. Happy you found a can that works for you man, my understanding is the YHM cans are great for the price.
“Flow Through” is a licensed Huxwrks technology. The correct work outside of that is high flow rate. The problem with the RC3 is that surefire hyped it up like it was super advanced, being designed with super secrete AI 3D modeling,then proceeded to make it with one of the simplest ways to make a high flow rate can, and then overpriced the shit out of it for such subpar technology. They simply made a very direct outer annulus that vents directly to atmosphere. Basically a shitier Huxwrks can except is doesn’t need cleaned as much. And I’m not even a fan of Hux. Almost Every other company making modern hybrid designs are doing much more advanced stuff that still greatly reduces backpressure but still maintains decent to amazing muzzle suppression. Cans like the SiCo Velos LBP, LPM Vented Torch, FOR Systems Monarch, and especially CAT with their Surge Bypass tech and PTR with their PiP Tech. Both of those are maintaining RC2 levels or better at muzzle suppression, while still achieving Huxworks/Velos levels of backpressure reduction.
Ben; if you really want to piss the nerds off….. dump water onto your can after getting it warm. The nerds HATE it soooo much
Why's that?
I think the main discrepancy here is people who shoot heavy volume and those who don’t. Rifle cans get so stupid hot, so fast, that it’s a real problem. Sure you can spend $300+ for a Liberty’s cover but that’s an irritating extra cost that adds a noticeable amount of extra weight on top of already being front heavy. I still love having cans but rifle cans aren’t some voodoo space magic that has no downside and is all pros
once you go KAC you never go back. glad to hear you're willing to at least look into the Knight's MCQ. I promise you will not be disappointed, especially because you don't really care about decibels, and mostly care about things like durability and the can not affecting your ability to shoot (like on target transitions).
I run a surefire SPS300 on my 300blk MCX because the backpressure doesnt really matter with a piston system, but outside of that I will always go with Knight's (if possible).
I dislike shooting pistols suppressed, but I generally prefer to run my rifles suppressed for my specific use case. Most of the rifle shooting I do is 500-1200 yards and slow fire. Not having to double up on ear protection is nice and the people around you will also thank you.
Most of the nerds pulling up dBs dont even shoot theirs they just take pictures of it. Thats why so many get the cheapo cans
More butt hurt with the suppressor guys than the Sig fan bois.
people are so emotionally connected to things they bought, it's crazy. The funniest part about it is that all anybody would need to do to have the correct opinion on any number of topics, would be to ask me what mine is.
Combat vet and psychologist here. If you value your brain health get a suppressor. Hearing loss is associated with higher rates of dementia. It's so stupid to not use a suppressor and risk hearing damage if you can afford it.
How good is doubling up? I use orange foam under some standard $60 ear muffs. It seems pretty effective, except for indoor rifles
Finally some common sense on this thread. People have no concept of how damaging the concussion is from a rifle, and not just to your hearing. Even the most basic of suppressors these days eliminates that concussion, and is well worth it if you can swing it.
I don't understand the amount of guys that are emotionally attached to suppressors. I shoot tons of suppressed rifle. I'd much rather shoot without one except in some specific use cases. Nobody really cares if a PRS dude says he prefers muzzle brakes for most stages. Why are the "tactical" guys so emotional about this?
Because their favorite aesthetic is having a can and they get bullied on Facebook without it. Lmao.
@jordanwilliams6972 yeah I have to remember that the majority of people don't actually care about measurable performance. I look at taking a can off to shoot/train like putting on running shoes to run. Sure, in real life if I have to run to save my life, I'm going to be wearing something different. That doesn't mean I only wear jeans and boots to go on a run.
i have one as it's far easier to get a new person to shoot a gun the cooler it looks.
Lol I think Ben messed the bed up before the video ! Lol
I have the RC3 and the knights CRS and MCQ, Knights have a better mount system IMO but the parts availably is awful and I would not recommend. Where I shoot its just good manners to have some suppression, but I also dont want to breathe cancer all day when shooting.
Is there a POI shift difference between the 3? Also, what about precision differences? Does one shrink the group size more than the other?
Curious if you tried any of the widely touted "fixes" for gassy suppressors before getting the rc3? RTV sealant on the charging handle, bootleg bcg, adjustable gas block, brt eztune gas tube etc?
Hey Ben, whatever happened to your trainer suppressor from Surefire? Is it not a viable alternative for some of these ranges? Seems like it would do enough of what you need a suppressor to do to make the RC3 unnecessary, at least during day shooting. Thanks.
As an owner of a B&T SRBS we're entering an age/development of suppressor technology that traditional hasn't been there. Traditionally the mindset and rational with regard to suppressor design and use was reduction in noise and flash with newer flow through/low back pressure cans it's a fundamental shift in that view. It's not so much about noise and flash reduction more so a balance between noise, flash, and toxic gas reduction. Making it safer overall, and that is something people tend to forget with flow through cans. The reason shooting suppressed is unpleasant or sucks for long periods of time unless you're gun is super tuned for suppressed use is because of those hot gasses that contain very nasty chemicals are getting jetted back in your face. And if you do have that highly tuned gun can only run for so many mags before it bogs down with carbon and it's even worse with an overgassed gun that beats itself while dumping all that carbon back into its guts. There's trade offs to both types of cans and people need to start viewing suppressors in a more nuanced way it's not black and white and it's not linear.
Meanwhile, Silencerco Velos owners just in the corner, minding their own business. It’s like Chevy vs Ford, but then there’s Toyota.
I like how this conversation is couched as RC3 vs everything when most of the important points aren't being discussed and relevant contenders aren't even mentioned.
Im convinced people who die on the “suppressors on everything” hill have too much of their identity tied up in them. Shooting 556 with suppressors just sucks.
Ben laughed at my NVG comment, and didn’t answer, which definitely mean he has Panos.
Every time I think about buying a suppressor I ask myself, why? I’m going to wear ear pro anyway, it can add unnecessary stress to the firearm, they need regular cleaning, they can cause malfunctions, and my name gets added to a list. But damn they look cool
Cans can make loud guns less loud. Some more so than others.
That may matter to you, the people you are shooting around, or your neighbors. Or not.
They add weight, cost, complexity, make the guns get dirty quickly, and make the guns harder to swing around quickly.
Some of these factors can be mitigated through choice of can, and/or modifications to the gun.
I prefer cans for some applications and not so much for others.
Only you can decide if the juice is worth the squeeze.
Or maybe you just want it.
You do you, people.
I have competed in several night matches. One thing I've noticed in the white light division is that people using flow through suppressors have a worse time with gun smoke obscuring their vision of small/distant targets. Based on how those people have done in the matches, the flow through cans seem to not offer a huge benefit over an unsuppressed gun, and traditional cans seem to have a clear advantage in that one aspect. I'm curious if Ben has made similar observations?
I have a discontinued 556 HX-QD and it’s heavy but I like it. Absolutely no gas to the face on a 16in gun
Supressors are dumb..the tax stamp alone makes it not worth it at all. No need, save your money for anything else. There are other options that the govt does not need to know about but i dont know anything about that.
With your level of round count, what would you prefer as far as cleaning goes…monocore or baffle stacks?
9:39 why isn’t knights flow threw suppressors in on the conversation?
I have my own opinions and thoughts about suppressors.
But I keep them quiet.
All the activities that Ben doesn’t tell us about will soon be available on his upcoming OF
Look forward to seeing you run the rc3 at pcsl nats next year
I love all firearms and firearm accessories. ;) including suppressors.
I have Knigjts and surefire and Knights IS NOT better, not sure why someone made that comment, probably validate his purchase. That simply isn't true
Suppressors are the way, I have used many professionally CONUS and OCONUS from surefire, thunderbeast, AAC, dead Air, Griffen Armament, and other. They all pretty much do the same, I personally really like my Griffen HRT556 can. It's a K size can with flow through technology I have it on a 8.5inch barrel. It provides probably the least backpressure and gas then any others I have shot. Plus their dual lock mount technology is absolutely bomb proof
Lok cease 20/20. No more carbon lockup.
A lot of people thinking Ben is out under NV hiding from the Chinese.
NEWS FLASH: USPSA grand wizard doesn’t have the same gear considerations as a tactical/military minded individual.
Use some perspective folks.
Be reasonable on the internet? Surely, you must know that you are asking too much.
Shartfire RC3 lol
Suppressors suck except
11:55 lol
cool shirt
I have a Sandman K. I have been told it sucks but I like it and it works for me.
It does suck
@@KartSmarter do you own one? Why does it suck?
@@NBT31 high back pressure, low suppression. Used to be a very popular can.
I feel like I’m taking the bait. According to PewScience the Sandman K has very low back pressure.
That said it is not a quiet suppressor. With supersonic rounds it takes the edge off of the shot.
As the shooter, I can’t tell the difference between it and a surefire mini II. On a 5.56, it has pretty low back pressure.
If you want a quiet can, then the K is not for you. If you want a can to train a lot, it’s pretty good.
I have read somewhere to use a blank when shooting off a surefire silencer.
Blank is preferable since it’s less powder and no projectile. You can you live ammo it just launches your can farther and harder. If you scrub the mount now and again and hit it with CLP before you throw it on chances are you’ll never use that feature
So Stoeger only owns a can because some ranges he goes to require it. That is a very niche reason to own a supressor which 99% of people aren't buying a supressor for. I think advice or discussion about supressors from someone whos only interest in them is because a range they go to requires it isn't very valuable.
The Surefire is a superior can to the hux.. Period.
The construction and metal is significantly more durable and will live longer on a short barrel that just about any other can except for a few that are Inconel or stelite (knights or CGS)…
The knights cans cost more than the RC3 and the muzzle devices are unobtanium..
I suggest CGS if you can get 1 in stock…?
My guess is not many have seen rapid baffle degradation?
This is why barrel length specifications exist.. short 556 is absolutely brutal on baffles. Short barrel with a 3 prong shows interesting results on the blast baffle..
@@PnP-td1mt yeah i have been running a hux can and if i was an armorer dealing with cleaning 50 of these things every 2k rounds I would be pretty pissed.
@@DavidsLongRangeShooting yeah I don’t care what you run..
The surefire use of a most robust can that will tolerate A LOT more abuse.
Your cleaning comment tells me you haven’t been using suppressers that long.
I have yet to see a can that needed regular cleanings that wasn’t a 22LR can.
@@PnP-td1mt i’m agreeing with you, the surefire is less maintenance with a longer lifespan. Going off of manufacturers spec on the hux can is what most agencies will do, that’s where the cleaning comment comes from, those hux cans get dirty quick. Primed for confrontation much?
@@DavidsLongRangeShooting have to forgive me…
I am typically bombarded with utter stupidity 😂
I used to make my own cans. Not only have the ability to machine and EDM exotic metals but also print it..
form 1’s were all the rage until the aft changed the form process and started locking people up over the word “intent”.
@@PnP-td1mt you’re good dude no worries.
Only 70 views in 5 minutes. Been fell off.
We were all washing our hair waiting for Ben
Have you ever considered people are busy and have lives and don’t just wait around for someone to post a video?
Because TH-cam doesn’t like his content. He’s being shadow banned.
@@Jonka710 fake Ben fan
Stock, milspec, unsuppressed ar’s are under rated. The huge mess around suppressors is a hard pass for me. Also, watch some combat footage, dudes struggle with pinpointing where direct fire is coming from all the time(if you’re thinking you need a can for that reason). But, the merits of them are not lost on me, just my humble opinion.
socom mini 2 is 🤌 but it's also carbon locked hard🥲
huxwrx works its way off....huh