I disagree about the higher S weapons having less impact from the Detachment Rule. It really helps hits major threshholds for a lot of Tau's guns. Bringing Sunforges to S10 for example makes them wound any non-heavy vehicle on 3s/4s like Armigers, it's a huge breakpoint there. Ghostkeels with a Fusion Collider hit a similarly huge S13 instead of S12, so they can wound heavy tanks and knights on 3s/4s. In terms of pure math, it may not seem huge, but actually running them feels incredible. Starflare Ignition System on a Plasma Rifle Fireknife unit for example basically guarantees they hit S9 so they can punch into light vehicles and do major work against all those pesky 3-Wound models (or 2-5-Wound for things with FNP) since they don't even really need the 6" AP for stuff like that.
I have to agree about the ghostkeel, especially if you run them in teams of 2-3. They're terrifying to heavy armored targets and do everything a riptide can do, only better. Even with the LO nerfs. The only problem is that Sunforge suits are ten points cheaper and one more wound than the Keels.
Sunfishes are ok into armies that don’t have invulns or good overwatch. I’d say they’re just ok, space marine eradicators are way better for just a bit more points wise as they reroll everything and don’t rely on another unit to have line of sight for a guide.
Love the videos and always appreciate them! only thing is I think it’s important to flag this doesn’t take armor of contempt style stratagems into account. Really hurts/reduces the impact of missile fire knives and breachers
You say breachers are better than fireknives against eldar guardians because of their -1AP. However starscythes have ignore cover on their flamers (can be argued as -1AP), -1AP for targeting infantry, as well as another -1AP per the detachment rule. So I’m confused how they didn’t come out on top if the AP is what determined it?
I really enjoy these videos, one thing I'm curious about mathhammer wise... how do you account for dev wounds in your calculations for riptides and hammerheads? I've found it's awkward using unit crunch to do it because you have to split the calculations and add together. Any who just wondering if maybe I'm using the tool wrong!
Would pathfinders be even more beneficial because of the 2 markerlights ability? That would help ensure the -1 ap is able to be used, right? And wouldn’t stealthsuits be even better because of their ability to guide? I understand that you are just breaking down with no buffs, but as a whole wouldn’t those units be the best option for ret cod?
He is just providing the most efficient targets for shooting units. Not which units are best for army composition. These lists will only feature units based on their damage dealt per point. Every detachment wants to be guided, guiding in retcadre is no more or less important than in montka or kauyon.
I've played a lot of RC, gotta say, Stealth suits yes, Pathfinders no. They're just kind of unnecessary IME and the rerolls are more important. This video isn't suggesting that you not guide, but guiding doesn't really make a difference to these charts, and it's all unit by unit not by army comp. Flamescythes work fine as Spotters too and actually are Battlesuits for RC
How are starscythe with burst not more efficient than stealth suits? 3 starscythe with burst are 110p, 3 stealth are 60p. You get double the firepower for less than double the points AND extra ap against preferred targets through their ability which should make them more efficient. They also have deepstrike, higher movement, can be lead by a commander and are a perfect target for the sustained hits strat but those last bits wont show up in the data. I feel like you favour the flamer starscythes and i agree but isn't there at least something to be said in favor of burstcannons?
Fireknifes into 2+ saves T11? lol. Missileknifes literally is one of the worst unit in the codex if you're using RC detachment. Their strenght comes from range, if you're withing 6" for the +1 AP to boost it to +2AP at that point is way better to use Starscythes or even Sunforges. Remember that AoC strat exists so most of the times with Missileknifes they will use normal saves (+2 or +3 most of the times) so you'll barely wound
I disagree about the higher S weapons having less impact from the Detachment Rule. It really helps hits major threshholds for a lot of Tau's guns. Bringing Sunforges to S10 for example makes them wound any non-heavy vehicle on 3s/4s like Armigers, it's a huge breakpoint there. Ghostkeels with a Fusion Collider hit a similarly huge S13 instead of S12, so they can wound heavy tanks and knights on 3s/4s. In terms of pure math, it may not seem huge, but actually running them feels incredible. Starflare Ignition System on a Plasma Rifle Fireknife unit for example basically guarantees they hit S9 so they can punch into light vehicles and do major work against all those pesky 3-Wound models (or 2-5-Wound for things with FNP) since they don't even really need the 6" AP for stuff like that.
I have to agree about the ghostkeel, especially if you run them in teams of 2-3. They're terrifying to heavy armored targets and do everything a riptide can do, only better. Even with the LO nerfs. The only problem is that Sunforge suits are ten points cheaper and one more wound than the Keels.
@@J.Panxer What Loneop nerf are you referring to?
@@Johnny_Nodes18 to 12" no shoot zone.
@@J.Panxer LoneOp is still 12. It's on strats that give you LoneOp that are 18
Sunfishes are ok into armies that don’t have invulns or good overwatch. I’d say they’re just ok, space marine eradicators are way better for just a bit more points wise as they reroll everything and don’t rely on another unit to have line of sight for a guide.
Love the videos and always appreciate them! only thing is I think it’s important to flag this doesn’t take armor of contempt style stratagems into account. Really hurts/reduces the impact of missile fire knives and breachers
You say breachers are better than fireknives against eldar guardians because of their -1AP. However starscythes have ignore cover on their flamers (can be argued as -1AP), -1AP for targeting infantry, as well as another -1AP per the detachment rule. So I’m confused how they didn’t come out on top if the AP is what determined it?
I really enjoy these videos, one thing I'm curious about mathhammer wise... how do you account for dev wounds in your calculations for riptides and hammerheads? I've found it's awkward using unit crunch to do it because you have to split the calculations and add together. Any who just wondering if maybe I'm using the tool wrong!
Would pathfinders be even more beneficial because of the 2 markerlights ability? That would help ensure the -1 ap is able to be used, right? And wouldn’t stealthsuits be even better because of their ability to guide? I understand that you are just breaking down with no buffs, but as a whole wouldn’t those units be the best option for ret cod?
He is just providing the most efficient targets for shooting units. Not which units are best for army composition. These lists will only feature units based on their damage dealt per point. Every detachment wants to be guided, guiding in retcadre is no more or less important than in montka or kauyon.
I've played a lot of RC, gotta say, Stealth suits yes, Pathfinders no. They're just kind of unnecessary IME and the rerolls are more important. This video isn't suggesting that you not guide, but guiding doesn't really make a difference to these charts, and it's all unit by unit not by army comp. Flamescythes work fine as Spotters too and actually are Battlesuits for RC
How are starscythe with burst not more efficient than stealth suits? 3 starscythe with burst are 110p, 3 stealth are 60p. You get double the firepower for less than double the points AND extra ap against preferred targets through their ability which should make them more efficient. They also have deepstrike, higher movement, can be lead by a commander and are a perfect target for the sustained hits strat but those last bits wont show up in the data. I feel like you favour the flamer starscythes and i agree but isn't there at least something to be said in favor of burstcannons?
Burst cannon starsythes.. not flamers
Uhh Ghostkeels can also Fall back and shoot?? You just lose smoke
thank you very much for the video.
it would be helpful to place units by damage per point comparison as well😊
Fireknifes into 2+ saves T11? lol. Missileknifes literally is one of the worst unit in the codex if you're using RC detachment. Their strenght comes from range, if you're withing 6" for the +1 AP to boost it to +2AP at that point is way better to use Starscythes or even Sunforges. Remember that AoC strat exists so most of the times with Missileknifes they will use normal saves (+2 or +3 most of the times) so you'll barely wound
I’ve witness this first hand they’re terrible against marines or anything that can give itself cover with a decent save