J-11 Flanker-L with SD-10 Fox 3 Vs F-15 Eagle Peer to Peer BVR Engagement | DCS |
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jf17 vs rafe
Little tip, you can generally tell how far away the aim120 is by reading the signal strength on RWR, it is very helpful in pulling last second maneuvers.
If the j11 doesnt have the rw engine performance (or lack there of) i call bs
I love watching these every single day
@@abdullahkhan-vu1lc Rafale would badly fuck the JF-17
So I guess in conclusion what I'm saying is the Flanker needs some love, I don't know how that can be achieved but the red planes are defiantly in a bad place right now and could use some sort of assistance. Back in the day the Flankers at least had a Datalink advantage over the blue aircraft and could lure blue into bad situational awareness areas and confuse them and kill them, but since the new updates to DCS the blue side have seen a major improvement to their data link so red don't even have that advantage anymore. Now I'm not saying take a garbage missile and buff it just to create a balance in the Sim, the last thing I want to see is DCS balancing things like its battlefield but in the real world East and West are always fighting for an advantage over the other one and it seems like right now blue aircraft have moved 30 years into the future and red is still stuck in the 1980s. Anyway I welcome your thoughts on this topic guys let me know what you think. Thanks for watching and all your support with the channel, Much Love.
Realistically, Flankers are neglected IRL too, this could arguably be the most realistic scenario in game for how Flankers perform IRL. Unless we actually get some realistically modelled Chinese Flankers, ingame, they are going to continually get whacked.
@@arslankhan2134 There are many upgraded versions of the Flanker out there
@@arslankhan2134 ????????????????
@@arslankhan2134 wether better or not its not neglected
@@arslankhan2134 its a top fighter of Russia, china so upgraded to the best ability
Eastern block aircrafts are really interesting planes, would be an absolute shame if they dont get updates
I'm glad you tweaked your intro. I finally stopped bleeding from my ears.
lol yaa sorry about that boss.
That's what the volume control is for. Lol Personally, I like bleeding eardrums as long as it's because of a turbine of some sort.
The first intro was the best.
Growling Sidewinder noooo bring it bacc man pls i loved it Rip
Hmm I liked that intro! :(
Not having R-77 on the flanker has irritated me for ten years. It would be really cool if you get some traction on this. However its not hard to imagine this isnt allowed.
There is simple mod that allows you to load R77 To Su27/33
so why not just Fly J11 with R77??
Because not everybody wants To fly as chinese
@@Joruzhia it's a game?
@@Joruzhia cowardly
It's the same story for the mirage, mirage 2000-C is an 80' version, we need a mirage 2000-5
We need the MiG-31 carrying R-33's
If you remember the release of the JF-17 with its SD-10, the issue about the whole AMRAAM kinetics was only addressed the moment the AMRAAM was no longer "the top dog". I don't foresee a more modern red plane coming to DCS anytime soon, for two reasons, one of which you mentioned:
1. Chinese and Russian limits of information release.
2. Likely to sour a majority of the DCS community (F-series pilots)
Its fun to think back to the days when DCS Su-27 and F-15 combat was interesting, one having AMRAAMS, and the other having datalink. Each one could leverage their advantage differently leading to an even playing field.
I have to say, I’m learning a lot from your videos about air to air fights. I’m not a dog fighter to be honest but watching your videos and the analysis afterwards really does help my understanding. Thanks GS, seriously, I appreciate it.
It’s my pleasure Paul I’m glad you’re finding the videos useful thank you for the kind comment.
I couldn't agree with you more. When I fly the "blue fighters" I pretty well dominate the sky against the red and its gotten boring so I recently started flying the J-11 and I love it. It does get frustrating when I'm going head to head against a F-15 and he is able to launch on me and I'm sitting there waiting for launch authority lol, the only way I have had some success is to do a lot of missile dodging and dragging them into my firing range. I doubt they will do anything about it, they seem slow to get things done(I'm still waiting for the F-16 maverick which they have saying is close to being done for months now) I think they are more interested in releasing new half completed modules then actually finishing the already released modules. Thanks for the great videos.
10:42 ED is a Russian company, they're going to be much more restricted by Russian government desires than US government desires. Also, at least as far as US hardware goes, there's an awful lot of open source data on US weapons systems out there, and as long as ED is very very careful to document their sources so that they can prove that they're not using classified data to create their models, they don't need US government approval for anything. Things may be, and are very likely, much different for both modern Russian and Chinese hardware, and whether there are any protections around recreating the performance of that hardware.
I don't think the Russian government restricts that much info. Attempts at 1:1 recreations? Maybe. But I think creative liberties are not only allowed, but maybe endorsed. I mean, we can see this a lot on games like War Thunder or Stalker where Russian/Soviet weapons are either better, cheaper, more readily available, or some combination of the three.
@@TheRibbonRed You need proof to make something better/worse, more reliable/less reliable in DCS, it's that simple. If you can find any source (has to be legal of course) that indicates R-77s/AMRAAM or anything is stronger/weaker than what we have ingame, give it to ED and they would change it.
After the DIS stuff, ED now has the right to change the capability of any third-party weapons, no need to contact the third-party developers as well.
@@z1maass727 I was talking about OP's comment on the Russian government.
As for ED themselves, I'm gonna call doubts on that one. One of the proof being the F-16 module when it first released.
DCS may be the closest thing we have to a 1:1 experience with military aircrafts out there, but it is by no means an actual 1:1. Just like what GS & you stated, most data has to come from legally declassified documents. The rest would be holes that ED, Razbam, Heatblur, and other module devs would have to fill.
@@TheRibbonRed I recall ED saying they hires third-party consultant to do the physical simulation stuff thus estimate the performance of each type of missiles, if no info was found/given to them by the third-party developers. I think this apply to 120s, R-27s, R-77 and PL12/SD-10, while the rest, older stuff is made with accurate data.
@@z1maass727 EDs part-time joke of a CEO has literally said in a recent interview that they have no access to the actual launch data for either country, so it`s all hogwash. It`s on this very channel, lol.
After parachuting, you find each other on the ground and continue the fight. :D
the M2000C, which can carry only 2 fox2 and 2 fox1 missiles, is even worse than the flankers in terms on competitivity against nato aircrafts
but the satisfaction when you kill an F-16 is unparalleled..
@@stalinium4769 when?
Vivek Kaushik DCS server
But it is nato too.
@@ricardohumildebrabo i should have write "against others nato aircrafts AND flankers by the way"
My 16 year old self, 30 years ago, was content looking over Jane's and other hardcovers; never would of he imagined this would replace that.
these vids always make my day better and get me excited about finally trying this game. keep up the great work GS 👌 love your channel ❤️
thank you man, I appreciate the support.
It's refreshing to see this kind of gentle comments on TH-cam amids all the hate. You must be a good person.
@@tommasofrisone2643 lol i duno about that man but I try
Great thoughts and great video.
DCS Mig and Su aircraft are suitable for simulating the early 90s.
Do an interview with one of the DCS managers to see what their plans are on the red side in future.
The Su-35sz simulation, I think they wouldn’t get enough information about how work the plane avionics and systems . Maybe the Su-27SM with R-77 could have a chance to get meaningful information to simulate in DCS.
The Mig-29s simulation is incomplete, no simultan four R-77, lock only two, no Lazur systems.
The 80-90"s russian aircraft is use the different thactics than Nato.
Always get a kick seeing you fight in and win with Flankers and Fulcrums. The underdog fighting the merciless giants, I admit to getting tired of seeing everyone flying NATO aircraft.
It would be nice to see the MiG-29M or SMT and Su-27SM in the game. Not the highest end fighters like the Su-30SM or 35S but certainly respectable steps up from the late Cold War stuff. But thats up to the Russian and Chinese governments and what they say goes. Or a Third Party willing and able to begin working on them, something people forget about.
BTW I really enjoy the external views of you flinging the Flanker and Fulcrum through the air. Really get a sense of their power, agility and handling characteristics and the cinematography is excellent.
Su25 vs A10.
A-10 Wins, I already tested. I mean, the Su-25 can't turn for shit so it sucks in dogfights. But if the A-10 becomes too much of a threat, you just dive and run because the A-10 can't catch you lol
The clash of kings
1 Big brrrrrrt against 4 brrrrrrts.
🤦🏻♂️........
It everyone used the SD-10 Fox 3 mod that would be a work round on a server.
Fun historical fact: The term 'Fox' was first used in WW1, when RFC pilots would literally drop foxes onto German cavalry units, to scare their horses. Prove me wrong...
lol a good try, but no cigar "Fox" is short for "foxtrot", the NATO phonetic designation for the letter "F", which is short for "fire". The radio call announcing that a weapon has been fired is intended to help avoid friendly fire, cueing other pilots to avoid maneuvering into the path of harm.
@@GrowlingSidewinder *sad fox noises*
Your editing awesome. I think I said that before but it's got even better since then. I really enjoy the pieces you put together - they're cinematic. Cheers!
I wold like to see the SU-35 with its masive radar with R77 and R27EA....and of course the AL-41 engines
won't happen the next 40-60 years...
Ahaha, man they can’t even get permission for SU-30SM and u talking about SU-35XD never man, it’s sad but never
@@иванвасильевич-к1т mig 29smt is way to go now
Masoud Kh not rly, this plane is still in Russian Air Force, this mean that we could see only Mig-29A(Mig-29 9-12).
Careful with turning upside down after guiding/supporting a missile in the flanker,
Past 130-180 degrees of bank you will lose STT/TWST or radar picture.
The bad side lobe issues of the N001 Mech radar is modelled in DCS
I believe DCS is heavily modelled off what was once known LOMAC and Flaming Cliffs.. Both of those simulators were russian companies and had direct communication with a lot of russian defence contractors.. Eagle Dynamics however is a western based company and probably doesn't allow for trade secrets to be shared the same way they were back in those days.. and in LOMAC the Western and Soviet aircraft were equally matched..I remember guys in Flankers smoking F 15s like it was no big thing..
I winced when you got hit by the AMRAAM but was relieved when we discovered you got him as well haha!
You always have the best commentaries 💯. It would be fantastic to have the Soviet planes up to par . I’m red blooded American af but the flanker is just a work of combat art . First love will always be the eagle but given the choice to fly I’d ride the su hands down.
It's so sad to see this kind of fight probably will never happen for the J11 in DCS. The J11B is still largely in service in China, and it is still classified. J11B can take PL12(AKA SD-10) AND PL15 very long-range missile which is super powerful with its newest AESA radar. J11A's cockpit is also incomparable to the J11B's glass cockpit. I assume the Red side will continue to have a very hard time in the future because the F15E and Eurofighter Typhoon are coming to DCS, and they are probably will be on the Blue side. What is even worse is that there are really no other options for the Red side to have except for the Chinese and Russian aircraft.
I only fly the mig-29S due to it having the R-77. That’s the only eastern fighter I’m willing to take to a multiplayer server.
Yea, but migs don't have datalinks.
Maximus Parker442 I know, if I’m playing on a server I’m in either the tomcat or hornet
I don’t know anything about this game but somehow TH-cam told me to watch this. Enjoying it.
TH-cam gets things right every now and then lol
I think one of the key solutions to mitigate these concerns regarding balance could be missions designed to take place in say, a late cold war scenario, so hornets with sparrows (for example) and stuff to create a resonable parity between east vs west.
Totally agree.. i particularly love RED planes, and is really frustrating to not been able to flight them in an more competitive way.. both mig 29 and su 27. Having better missiles, or improvement in sit. Awarness would be great.. an SM version with data link and better radar, for example.. hope ED has something behind scenes..
Vids like this are one of the reasons I'm a subscriber: fun to watch and incredibly informative. Nice one GS
Such a lot of valid points - I applaud your unbiased views as well as your respect for the big Flanker, which is a real beast in real life, but unfortunately gets the short end of the stick in the current setup ☝🏼. As always, thanks for the great content.
PL12(SD10) was developed by major Russian missile design buro NPO Vympel (R77 family developers) , to fit Flanker pylons that carried R77 . To be potentially used with all Flankers in times of joint war effort. J11A is original test firing platform for PL12. Interchangeability of the armament is inherent basis of a Soviet school of thought that ensured versatility among all Soviet/Russian Flankers and their younger Chinese twins. GK Chairman `,)
Well, there is a photo with J-11A with PL-12 from the official Chinese DoD website. You can tell it's the J-11A rather than J-11B, since the IRST is offset to the center line in the normal flanker position rather than right at the center line like the B version.
eng.mod.gov.cn/news/2018-07/16/content_4819381.htm
So flying J-11A with SD-10 is sort of legit without a J-11B make over. Though in real life, there is probably some electronics refit to make it work. BTW, Su-30MKK are seen with PL-12 as well, so the refit appears to be quite common for Russian flankers in Chinese service.
This a big reason why I'd welcome an Su-27SM, J-11B or Su-30M even if they were low-fidelity FC3 aircraft.
i heard about Deka is doing something to make a J11A MLU , which can use PL12 and a new DDI . but i dont know when it can be done
老兄是哪里获得的消息？
@@RedPanda-mu1qy 我忘了是油布老爷还是谁提过这事儿，加上我一个给deka建模的朋友又说他们接下来不会做新机。那可能。。。就做点小东西呗
GS thank you so much for doing this video, I personally really appreciate it. You may remember me requesting it before and I want to say this opens Pandora’s box for western fighters.
I want to see the R-77-1 and the PL-12. This would allow a scenario designer to choose what weapons are going to make for a challenging scenario. Both weapons should be ahead of an AIM-120B and close to the capabilities of an AIM-120C.
Not sure if ED can work on this but it would be cool if they could.
PL-12 actually exists in the game, separated with the SD-10.
I'm just now getting into DCS and only have FC3 planes... so I love the Su-27 currently. Glad to hear that I've been in unfair fights trying to defend AIM-120's and I'm not just a garbage pilot! Lol
Made your case in a convincing manner. And even if I'm not QUITE ready to give the Flanker the love it deserves, I think I am at least open to the possibility of dating one on a casual basis - it's a start! ; - )
Awesome video dude, the camera work is amazing.
Agree with your points, but I think it's important to be careful to not sound like "we've got to 'balance' the game so that both sides are even". No, this should be as close to a simulation as possible and should be as realistic as possible, but of course like you mentioned, there may be some roadblocks such as licences and permissions that are preventing us from getting newer red missiles.
At the end of the day I feel like it's a never ending one-upping war when it comes to these new features and weaponry in DCS (obviously, this is the case in real life), but it's just funny to see that you throw in your 2c about the R-77 then someone comes along and tosses their 2c about upgrades for a, b, c, d, x, y, z and justifying why it should be in DCS etc etc, never ending haha
-he mostly meant to balance in terms of what aircraft are added
for example russia lacks its upgraded su27s and migs along with r77-1 and r77s and upgraded r-27s for most aircraft while nato gets its aim120 spam and vastly upgraded planes
all in all nato is in the 1990s to 2000s while russia is 1980 to 1990s and are significantly behind in terms of bvr since they lack the r77 and r77-1 which is basically an aim120 equivelant
Dude, wow what a video! Great weather preset, I need to get that right someday!
anyone else think F-14 v MiG-29 would be cool?
Only because MiG-28 would be a foreseen conclusion :-D
With GCI, and at least a slight numbers advantage for MiG-29, that could be interesting.
right now its up to the servers to implement the balance. if you want what you say you want, remove the 120C, limit the amount of amraams you can take into the air, disable nato datalinks or some other factors the curb the power of viper/hornet. Theres really no other options right now unless ED is going to get proper CFD and guidance updates out the door for red missiles
I heard the same stories that ED don't want to anger the MoD of Russia to introduce a high fidelity Su-27SM model with R-77 precise flight model as the pentagon analytics would buy DCS in hundreds so that they could exactly estimate the strength and develop tactics to counter them...
Hey GS A new version of the R27 with active radar seeker has been launched with a seeker from the R77 on a R27 EA with a range of 130kms it wud be nice to see that with a Flanker!!
Growing I'm missing the Tomcat missions from your channel. If possible, next time let's see how a F-14 Tomcat holds up against the Flankers.
And I agree with you, with Flankers needing some updates, and I really like the SU-30 a lot, and these red aircrafts do need a up in their game against the NATO aircrafts 👍🏼
AX PETER unfortunately we wouldn’t see SU-30SM1 or SM3 in nearest future. Maybe after 15-30 years
I wonder if the competitive side would work if various servers limited loadouts specific to some era. I am not on MP in DCS yet unlike IL-2, but some good severs there also provide campaigns for specific time so that P-51 do not fight BF-109E and F.
Great fight, great commentary, great vid!
Very good video. I agree wholeheartedly.
How much are the Flanker ECM pods doing in DCS right now? Do they allow closing the gap at all in BVR, or are they not very effective right now?
They are effective only to other FC3 plane i think.....
So... Su 27 and F 15 confirmed for War Thunder?
I have the hornet and the viper, as well as the flaming cliff planes. I don't really like the eagle, I love my viper, don't really care for the hornet, but i love the flanker and J-11. I really like the flight model. It's a challenge of its own compared to the high fidelity planes. But I'm not impressed with its long range capability. I find myself defensive before I can engage because the missiles just don't have the speed or range. Still end up in dog fight range for best use.
That's the saddening part about recent management of simulator games, release an update to some parts, neglecting the other side, making it terribly unplayable for the neglected side, so it seems as if it's a constant buff nerf fiesta, while really, it's just an incremental update. ED would do very well if only they withheld the new missile updates until they can come up with a similar counterpart from the other side. I'd rather have periodic updates that changes the *whole* game rather than have the game updated constantly but it's a partial update that neglects some other aspect of the game which is now incompatible with the more recent updates. Imagine I update my house with a brand new floor, but I have not yet put any additional weight bearing pillars to hold the new floor up, isn't that just asking for the house to collapse?
props to the servers that withheld the newer updates and keep the game in the older flavor to keep the gameplay coherent
Even the Russian missiles we have in DCS now are grossly under-performing compared with all of the IRL information we have on missiles like the R--27ER and the base model of R-77. We know from your interview with Nick Grey that they are planning to do a major kinematic performance update on these missiles to make them more realistic and I fully expect that like the AIM-120 update this will result in a major improvement in performance for these missiles in DCS.
Even when that happens it would still be nice to see technology updates for Russian and Chinese aircraft come to DCS. I'd really like to see full fidelity modules for more modern Russian and Chinese jets added too.
The US government and state deliberately do not allow Russian vehicles or weapons to be more dominant in the game and all other games, which is why DCS and Russian planes have not had new missiles for years.
the jian j-11-flanker the chinese version of russian sukhoi-su-27+flanker.
Thank you for this video!
This is exactly what red players would like to have, just missile parity, based on ingame variants corresponding to stated IRL characteristics. ED has no access to real launch data for any country anyway, they said so themselves.
It is a fight of missiles. Put the same fox3 on a virtual Mig-21and it will be competitive.
It all does sounds good to add more modern Russian missiles variants so we don’t have to use soviet era versions, but there will be only one who will not gain on any of those additions, red carrier bois, we will be stuck with the R-27ER and ET while other flankers will be using at least EA models, the only alternative is to jump chassis to J-15 or mig-29MT
Is that a mod?
I completely agree and have heard the same rumours, to the same conclusions.
You don't happen to know of an FC3 mod to get Su30 loadouts for Su27S for an ad hoc Su27SM midlife update do you? There used to be one for FC2 but I can't find any for DCS.
Aggressiveness carries the fight!
HOT TAKE: ED should take the realism hit and add peer missiles for the multiplayer. Radar's and tws are shittier for Red anyway.
Is there a reason why the Su-27 doesn’t have its R-77’s? The MiG-29S has had them since forever.
They don’t have them in DCS for some reason and they’re not preforming anywhere near the amraam so it feels kind of pointless to use them at all. That’s why I made this version with the fox3 sd10s
24 seconds, why are you uploading at 5 am? lmao
World is a sphere. İ mean he may not live in north america.
it was uploaded at 8am local time, and also, youtube lets you schedule a video release I could release a video at 3am while i'm dead asleep if I wanted to lol.
I own SU-33 it's almost year when I tried on multiplayer server, they need to work on these models they r beautiful and need attention
Hello GS!! sorry but.. how do you make the J-11 carry the Sd-10?? Is it a MOD or something like that? I've been looking in Dcs forums but couldn't find anything.
Great video as allways! thanks!
Hey man from what I remember it’s a LUA editing thing you have to add the sd-10 code to your j-11 folder I recommend not trying it if u don’t know what ur doing as it will corrupt your install I did it more as a proof of concept
@@GrowlingSidewinder okok! a bit risky if that's the case. Well.. thanks for the answer and congrats for your channel!! Greetings from Argentina
Su-27/J-11 vs F-15 but in Fox 1 scenario
Do you have a sound mod or is the default sound for DCS?
Is their another former satellite country that has modified/updated a fox 3 missle that WOULD allow for a more up to date experience? Ukraine perhaps?
Why not keep the way the missile looks but update the technology for today? So you get an old looking missile but with more up to date technology.
Flanker def needs some love.
I put aim 120 on p51
How do I get that glow or bloom off of the cockpit lights?
How about a modernized Su-27SM3 with R-37 missiles?
Galm 1 vs Galm 2
Galm 2 be like
"Yo buddy... still alive ?"
Excellent!
I agree with every word you said
Or DCS should have age based matchmaking where you can only use the technology available at the time. Since chineses and russians ll never allow to model modern stuff
In the last moment you turned away from his missile. You should turn towards it.
Dead no matter what tho
@@phill5917 only chance is a Notch. But AMRAAMS are very notch resistant
I hope ED comes up with the su35/37 soon with r77 and k100. the Russian side is too underpowered. same with mig29m/35
The Flanker is my second favorite aircraft (favorite is F16). I still don't understand why the R77 is implemented on the J11 and Mig29 but not the Su27. That makes no sense, and is why I always fly the J11. I know the R77 is not as long range as the AMRAAM, but it is deadly within 20 miles. Your kill in this video could have been made with an R77.
Because version that we got is oldest possible one that didnt carry it. J11 is export version for china that eventualy could carry it. You would need Su27SM or later and even those dont carry R77 but R77-1.
Its about rcs. Flanker has comparable large rcs.that's maybe the reason.
do you get the j11 if you buy the su27? i need to know
no u get the j11 with the purchase of the entire FC3 pack. Just a disclaimer....but it doesnt come with SD-10s this was a mod.
@@GrowlingSidewinder thanks for the information, and i just want the j11 becouse asia, and i like all flankers
sorry my bad
i get confused between fulcrum and flanker
That is cool good job both.
I fly the flanker almost exclusively on the 162nd pvp server for the toughness factor. And boy when you get a sneaky ET kill on an F16. 👌
Sad A-10 noises.
What do you think of the new AI being used to control aircraft. It beat a very good pilot 5-0. I would imagine an aircraft that no longer has to care about the well being of a human and can turn at 15 G's would be in total domination of the air.
You know when i heared people say that the j-11 is a copy of the su-35 i thought it was similar to it in characteristics and used reverse engineered avionics but goddamn i didnt know they literally copy pasted it
It was originally built under licence for 200 airframes so it wasn't a copy as such, it was official production of the Su-27 in China. The J-11B muddied the water though. It isn't clear if they had a licence to build those or whether they were allowed to make improvements. Same goes for the J-15 carrier version.
j11 is a license production of su27 but j11b j15 j16 has the same exterior but everything else is Chinese missiles avionics and is much better but the only thing the Chinese are weak on is the engine .
@@munnumkhalid If they there much better, they wouldn't buy Su-35S.
@@Struktualnyj they buy to attain technology what do your think ..? how they develop j16 better version of su35s
What about you in J-11 vs experienced pilot in F-16 with AIM-120X and AIM-9X?
If you mean AIM-120D and AIM-9X (are they even modeled in DCS BTW?) then J-11 with SD-10 pretty much stand no chance in a peer - to - peer duel fight.
@@conghaoxu7344 At least AIM-9X is modeled.
AIM-120D is essentially the same as the DCS AIM-120C. The only change is the longer battery life and extra seeker performance. But the way PL-12/SD-10 is modelled (overpeforming btw), you can fight it.
@@MrZockerfreak11 How do you know how correctly or incorrectly missiles are modelled on DCS?
It is su 27 China edition
yeah i would like them to actually care about the game. It's like they really only care about the sim and like, yeah, okay, that can only be so fun. We get you're not gonna have an opportunity to study chinese and russian planes, but these things aren't magic man. We have a pretty good idea of like, what a su30 can do, what the SD-10 can do. Wikipedia is still free right? The gamer in me just doesn't care if someone at ED didn't have time with the real hardware.
So after some searching, the actual Wikipedia page on pl-12/sd-10 is pretty sparse on info, but the military wikia page has everything we need to make it happen.. I don't think we would be upset if ED added content with that data since it is all very plausible and in terms of balance, would only be almost as strong as the 120-c
Can’t we have a sever pvp fox 1 fox 2 only
I see MIG- 29
Why would they even need "permission" in the first place? BF3/4 built shit tons of RU/CN assets without any issue.
They actually license them as far as I know
Growling Sidewinder yeah, as this is probably for “security problems”, a game that promises they won’t include real data would be much more easier to get the “permission”
This is why china should not mess with the f-15
we need su35's XD