How to use Safety Capacitors - What are they?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ค. 2024
- This video is about Safety Capacitors and how to use them and what they are. I'll talk about the difference of an X and Y capacitor. There are X1, X2, and Y1, and Y2 capacitors sometimes referred to as RFI capacitors.
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This is a terrific video. You're right that many engineers don't design with capacitors. I'm a software engineer and appreciate how you explain the concept and application. Subscribed!
Thank you - and welcome to the team!
Engineers do design with capacitors. I think what you meant is "design with safety capacitors".
I have studied common mode filters and chokes for a long time. I have never heard it explained so plainly ! Great Job !
Keep coming across these little gems of videos that you've put out over the years Eddie, and I'm only just discovering them now. Fantastic explanation of a very important topic. Two thumbs up on this one !! Nice job.
Great Video Thank You for clearing up a few questions I had about X and Y caps .
You bet! Thanks for the feedback!
Thanks for the video. And way cool on designing the power supply for the set-top boxes!
Thanks so much!
thanks for the depth keeping it explainable for the non-electrical engineers. Very informative and detailed. Two thumbs up
Thanks so much!
Ohh....i really needed this info so badly...had a short on a chassis of an vintage receiver. Now i know why and how to fix it... the safety caps where partially clipped of...🙈
Thanks for sharing
You Bet! I'm glad it helped;)
Just what I was looking for.
Thanks!
That's great! Let me know if there is something specific that you would like to see.
Thank You!! I heard of a safety cap but never understood what they did.
You are welcome! I'm glad this was informative. Just one of those things that doesn't come up often.
Listen, I subscribed just even for the fact that you care of eq you voice cutting off bass that is something i hate people not doing so. Great video and very informative and clear. Bigs thank yous!
Thank you for sharing your experience!
My pleasure! I appreciate you!
Excellent explanation thanks!
Thanks so much!
Wow! GREAT tutorial! Thanks!
Thanks Dan! I appreciate you!
Beautifully explained...thank you
Thank you! I really appreciate you!
Thank you. Really helpful! SUBSCRIBED!
Thanks so much! Great to have you on board!
Thank you for this very useful video explaining X, Y capacitors. I'm looking forward to the next videos from a master engineer worked at Hughes. 20 years back, I'm very familiar with HNS PES8000, PES5000 VSAT earth station products. Amazing devices from HNS.
I really appreciate that! Very nice of you! I had a lot of fun at HNS;) Great to have you here!
Thank for this...being an embedded engineer by trade, I have always heard about X and Y caps. Now I know.
That’s great - thanks!
Awesome video really learned something! Thank you.
Glad it was helpful! I appreciate you!
I really liked your video you explain things where I can understand them thank you
I'm so glad! I appreciate you!
Nice explanation on safety caps.. Thank you..
Thanks! Glad it was helpful!
I needed that refresher course forgot what I read back in the college textbooks.
That's great! Thanks for that feedback:)
Thanks, learned a lot
Awesome! Thanks for your feedback!
Hi Eddie, great video. Thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
Oh, Roederstein! I know them quite well. I passed their plant in Landshut, Germany for many weeks when i worked at Siemens as a student. I lived in Landshut at my fathers home that time and took the train to munic every day. I should have visited the plant and let them show me the production process - maybe they would have handed my such a box of probes as well :-) No comparison to the cheapies made in china...
When I was an audiophile - and trying to build the best audio quality - we loved Roederstein capacitors and resistors. I use these poly caps when making speaker crossovers or anything in the signal path. I'm sure that they would have given you a cool sample kit. If I find the sample books - I'll show them in a video. Really cool the way they show the specs.
Hey, 😮 great to know that you have worked for HNS, Maryland. I have been to Germantown/ Maryland HNS in 2005!
That's awesome! I really enjoyed it there!
Great video...Bless Your Bunions!
Thank you - I need it;)
informative video thanks
Thanks so much!!
So much important and good information
I really interesting
Thank you! Much appreciated!
Thanks, Eddie.
You bet Robert - great to hear from you!
THE FIRST THING THAT COMES TO MIND WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT SINGLE ENDED AND DIFFERENTIAL MODES IS DIFFERENTCIAL AMPLIFIERS INPUTS AND OUTPUTS.
I do plan to do a video on amplifier types:)
Thanks master for explanation of gfi we in the Netherlands we have the safery switch and for use near shower a special wall outlet with 40 mA max power for shaving Thanks again
Bert van Lelieveld Thanks Bert! Glad to hear from you! It is very interesting to hear how things are done in other countries.
Great info. Do you have a video on characterizing one of these filters (CM-DM) filters with a vector network analyzer for it's RF response? I'm curious what the procedure is since most VNAs are not differential and must use the earth ground as a reference...
What a great and educational video! I really appreciate the effort that you went to. How would you apply these capacitors to inverter design? i.e. when running from a LV DC source and creating an output mains AC (120VAC/60Hz or 230VAC/50Hz) but one that is not a utility sourced AC supply but instead made by the inverter - should the safety capacitors be used in the output filter stage of the inverter or are HV caps that are not safety rated sufficient?
Nice video man, as a newbie in electronics this video of yours was quite helpful :)
If I may... you look like James Hetfield if he designed his own amplifiers 😅🤘
Cheers from Romania!
Wow, thanks!
*googles what a common choke is*....*simultaneously 'Kiss Analog' says, "Well let me explain what a common choke is"*. Loving the detail!!!
LOL, thank you Stephen!
Hi Eddie - great video. I was wondering what people were describing as Y capacitors in the FY6900 signal generator power supply. You’ve made it clear - thank you
Thanks David! I appreciate you!
Great video, very informative and easy to understand.
Could you please tell me, I have a 5V 5A power supply, it doesn't have any X caps, but there's a place for one. Can I use 0.022uf 250V X cap? (Which I have in hand). Line voltage is 230V.
Thank you!!!!!
You're welcome! And thank you for your feedback;)
@@KissAnalog I had been looking for information on X2/Y2 caps. I have been in electronics since the mid-70's but never studied them. All of the industry instruments I worked (still work) on are portable or non-portable have power entry modules that in addition to fuses have the line filters built-in. Now I plan to play with restoring old tube radios and other tube equipment and needed to learn about the capacitors tied to the power line. Your video was perfect and what I was looking for. The only other thing I was taugh from elsewhere: Y1/X1 = Industrial, Y2/X2 = consumer. You cover a little bit about that. One thing that possibly could be added is the failure mode of each type. I think Y caps open, X Caps short. I would be interested in a demonstration video of Y/X cap failures and how they are built to open or short. Maybe not important but interesting.
Hi Eddie!
Great introduction into the topic!
Could you make a tutorial on the design?
I think we all know how we can build up frequency dependent attenuators/filters, but is this way really the right way by your experience?
I know there are many approaches like only a X cap over mains or only a Y cap over mains and PE. I've seen it oftenly on older appliances from the 80s, that had linear PSUs or only motors.
Like one of my lab power supplies (linear type, from the 80s, Polish made) has got only a Y cap, nothing more. Also I've seen an old HILTI power drill with only a X cap across mains (sure it's appliance class II). But every time I was wondering how they did determine the value of the caps.
For a good filter I need high Ls or Rs with a C, but did they really depend on the Z of the power cord?
For Roederstein:
They make good film capacitors, but the old (80s) electrolytics give me the creeps. I'm talking about the red/brown full hard plastic ones (i.postimg.cc/gjLxzPzV/roe-elko.jpg). By now the all crack and leak physically.
Once I was having a PCB from a fork lift on my bench and one of that guys did explode. I'm happy that I have to wear glasses otherwise I would be blind by now.
I've been talking to Vishay people (we have a semiconductor plant nearby) and the quality standars are high. Also from my experience the Vishay products are really trustworthy.
Keep up the good work!
Thanks BeamFinder! Yes, I will do an EMI filter design tutorial. It is interesting how little is done in some cases, but some filtering is better than none I suppose;)
Oh my - I've forgotten about those old caps! I think the capacitor could be the most explosive thing on the board;) I'm always afraid of a cap going nuclear! I'm glad you were not hurt!
I have had to replace numerous capacitors of this type in Hewlett-Packard Equipment. They have 250 ac clear cased brand that are fine on 120ac lines but usually go up in smoke within minutes when exposed to 240ac lines. I replace them with modern 275Vac XY types that are actually physically smaller than the originals. So things are improving all the time.
Thanks for this great feedback! Were those clear looking capacitors kind of a gold or silver under the clear plastic? We need to use X1 and Y1 caps on the 240Vac applications. The X2 and Y2 are for the 120 VAC lines.
Just had a HP 8640B billow fire and smoke after running 30 mins on 230V. Y cap had failed spectacularly.PME271Y cap
Excellent video. Explained everything in a simple and easy to understand way. I have a question. I'm trying to repair my dishwasher board that has a 250V 0.04 uF X2 cap. The closest I can find is a 250V X2 47 nF +/-10%. Would that be OK to use?
Thank you! The smaller caps are probably ok. If it noisy and interferes with other devices then you will have to get larger caps:)
Yes, Important Informations! If safety rules are neglected, the fire brigade's phone number may be essential........
LOL - but so true;)
Thank you very much. Hey, what brand is your watch ? 🙂
You Bet! It is a Gamin Fenix ;)
Nice video, i have some questions and sidenote.
You mentioned that you can change the X cap with a Y cap ? But i always though that X and Y capacitors are not interchangeable due there design.
In case of failure (overvoltage, surge, lightning etc....) of a X cap, these create a short, to trip a circuitbreaker, and the Y capacitor in case of failure to go open circuit, to prevent electrocution.
As a sidenote, some people who start in Electronics, and purchased there first scope, will try to protect his/her scope as much as possible,
and read on the internet, to use a powercord without earthpin for connecting there scope to the mains outlet, or use of a isolation transformer.
But in both cases, when there is no earth connected to a scope, these "safety" capacitors in the EMI filter will leak a small current to the earthwire inside the scope,
and put arround 50% of the main voltage to the BNC connectors at the front.
This wil result in false readings, because the earth or negative lead of the scope is no longer 0volts.
And as final question, what are the advantage of using a X cap for overvoltage, surge, lightning protection instead of a TVS diode ?
I'm working since a few months on a as i call it "passive differential scope probe" (differential probe without the extra need for a powersupply), and for overvoltage protection i use a TVS diode, for the reason that this TVS diode does not interfere with the signal, untill the treshold voltage is exceeded and the TVS diode goes short to trip the fuses on the + and - inputs.
I first wanted to use X capacitor, but this interfere with the signal , and also i have seen video's of blown safety caps that cause serious damage and can create a fire hazard, while a TVS diode in case of een event doesn't blow up (test done by myself with 600V and 0,4A).
So can you trow your light on this.
Thanks in advance.
Greetings from Belgium
Thanks Bjorn! Yes, some safety caps are actually marked Y1 X1, or Y2 X1 for instance. So, I've always thought it was OK to replace an X type with a Y type but not the other way around. I'll have to talk to a capacitor vendor to get the latest.
I've worked in a lot of labs that use what they call cheater plugs to get rid of the chassis connection. The power supply in the scope is isolated, so the BNC connector will tie the scope ground to the signal ground, but it cuts the connection from the chassis to the Neutral of the power input. I could see it adding noise though.
For surge protection, a capacitor can absorb some low energy spikes, but for more protection it would be better to use large TVS diodes or MOVs - if done correctly;) I have used large capacitors with small resistors, like say 22 uF with a 5 ohm resistor to absorb some transients. I like this better than a TVS as it is more robust. But if we are talking lightning protection - then that is not enough. I do like the failure mode of a TVS more than a MOV. The TVS will short then maybe crack open - where the MOV can start a fire.
So, if you are looking to protect from a transient coming into your diff probes from the circuit that they are monitoring - then they are high impedance, so a TVS should work great. The TVS also has a parasitic capacitance, so if this is a problem - you can place a signal diode with low capacitance in series with the TVS diode.
I will be doing some more videos on surge protection, so stay tuned;)
@@KissAnalog thank you for the quick reply. Regarding the scope ground, the powersupply is isolated, but in the modern scopes where the chassis is made of plastic, the incoming groundwire is connected to the negative part of the BNC connectors. If you then use a "cheater plug" or a isolation transformer, the incoming mains will leak for 50% to the negative part of the BNC connectors and has influence on the quality of measurements.
The EMI filter is useally as follow : Neutral wire - X cap - Ground - X cap - Hot wire , but if the ground is not connected to the mains outlet (but still connected inside the scope to the negative part of the BNC connectors, then the neutral and hot wire will leak this small current to the BNC connectors.
After reading on the internet about removing the ground pin for eliminating damage to the scope, i though this was the solution, because i have a modern Atten 60Mhz scope, with plastic chassis and no danger for getting a hot chassis.
After some testing with this, i came to the conclusion that there was arround 120V on the negative part of the BNC connectors (i didn't feel anything when by touching it, but a tester with neon bulb did light up). And the measurements with the scope gave false readings.
Then i did experiments with different small value X1 capacitors in series between the groundpin of the mains inlet (inside the scope), to the ground of the scope, to enduce this leaking to ground (has with connected earthpin was originally), but also the possibility for limiting high currents when accidentally the ground of the probe is connected to a hot wire. That worked, but even with 15a30V remaining on the negative part of the BNC connectors, it will give not accurate measurements. I even placed a white powerled in series, this powerled glows for a minutes and then failed due the high voltage.
The same above about removing the earth to a scope occurs when a scope is placed behind a isolation transformer. That's why it is not recommended to place a scope behind a isolation transformer, but only the DUT (Device Under Test). Also when a DUT is placed behind a isolation transformer, and if safety caps are used inside the DUT, this leaking of the safety caps will then also give false readings on the scope if the ground of the DUT is not 0Volts.
I was asked by a major vendor of set top boxes once to tell them how they should run power; 3 prong or 2 prong power cord,
. They had several manufacturers making boxes for them and they wanted to have them all follow one method. After thinking about it I wrote a white paper explaining why I thought it should be a 2 wire cord. The housing was plastic so no need to use ground and some people still don’t have ground and some people use extension cords that remove the ground. But the BNC will have a floating charge on it due to the Y caps, and UL requires transient protection to ground if 3 conductor. Just another potential that is not good if ground is not used. So I agree with you. I should experiment with my scope;)
I believe that they both go open. How could they rate it as X1Y1, if X would short and Y would open?
@@kgsalvage6306 The X capacitor is placed across line and neutral, in case of a surge or transient, or failure, they go short and pop a fuse or circuitbreaker, where the Y capacitor between line and ground goes open, when in case of failure there is no risk for shock (hot chassis).
www.tecategroup.com/products/capacitors/ac-safety-capacitors.php
Very timely - I was looking at building an input filter for a DC-DC Isolator. It's small - 15Vin, 5Vout - but there is a recommended filter in the datasheet. I notice here that there is no damping filter between the Cx and the PS, just the Cy caps - do these perform the same purpose? In my scenario, the 15Vin is coming from a wall wart SMPS so I'm wondering, really, if an input filter is worth it, or maybe just a PI filter at the front? Any advice - I'm learning this stuff as I go along and don't yet have the empirical design experience, just what I read theoretically via Google! And videos like this. Very interesting so thanks for doing.
Great Question! No the damping filter (Cx in series with an R) can keep an input from ringing in some cases - depending on input impedance. A dampened input is not a bad idea. Depending on the power level - the filter can be quite simple.
Some of them there TDK film caps have 200,000 hour rating. I used to live right down the freeway from that there Vishay HQ in San Jose.
Thanks for your feedback! I do like the TDK capacitors - especially the ceramics;)
Thank you for your great channel! I noticed that some vintage lowend audio gear doesn't have X(2) Caps' between hot and neutral. What would be the best way to find out which capacitance I should take? does it realy matter if take a 100nf instead of a 220nf or vice-versa?
Thanks for the great question! The value would depend on the noise that you want to get rid of. If you have both caps try the biggest one;)
@@KissAnalog thank you, you're best :-)
Hi. Really good and informative video. Important stuff for sure.
I restore old radios and stuff, often units without any safety caps.
So I usually install an X1 cap right after the power switch.
Maybe I should throw in 2 Y-Caps to ground also?
Thanks Geir! If you have a ground wire in the power cable, then you could try Y caps, but if not - then it could actually be a safety issue. I'll have to cover this in a video:)
I actually learned something today. Thank You. Do those caps have any other Uses and Values salvaged ? I suppose they could be used for there actual Cap Values any place ? Size not a issue. Say I had 20 of them. Build Voltage multiplayer with those and diodes for a Ion Generator ?
Great point - I'm so glad that you made it! Yes, these are great caps - just big - but high quality. The film caps would be great for speaker crossovers or the generator that you mentioned. Polypropylene caps are a great choice for many applications.
Hi great video and thanks for sharing. One thing that I am confused about is the restrictions on class X capacitor placement imposed by IEC 62368-1, the IT safety standard. The standard prohibits the use of X capacitors on circuits which are not isolated from the mains. Do you have any idea why this restriction is in place?
That’s a great question. I think it is because it is possible to have an undetected short or fault to ground. If this happens then the X type capacitor is not as safe as a Y type capacitor. Hope that makes sense.
@@KissAnalog thanks for your reply. But if there was a short to ground/earth then the RCD at the consumer unit would trip. I'm in the UK so probably using different terminology to North America. Do you think the restriction is to cater for old wiring installations which may not have been upgraded for many years and therefore not have an RCD fitted? Or for a faulty RCD (one where the contacts have stuck)? i think I may have answered my own question lol.
Awesome! Subscribed! Working on a RCA Victor VHT33W Console radio/phono and have what I believe is a blown 470pf 1.4kv disc cap, haven’t positively verified yet. It goes from line to ground. Now I know why it’s 470pf. Pulling chassis out tomorrow, hopefully there’s writing on other side of cap. Do you have any recommendations on part?? Thanks for sharing knowledge.
There is typically one on each line to chassis. The largest value for this is 4700 pF. It is advisable to replace both. Poly caps would be a great alternative.
Nice! It's been a while since iv'e heard a good ole circuit discussion. Everything is so condensed and surface mounted these days.
Hi Glenn - it has been awhile! Good to hear from you. Yes, the SMT is making it hard for me to solder - well I mean mostly impossible;)
I am really appreciate your very informative videos and valuable comments, I got a problem with a very old Braun blender Machine, the XY Capacitor which is 0.2uF + 2x2500pF blown up and this part is not available any more in where i live, and there was a resistor 6.5 ohm between the 220 volt lines I searched and many forum suggest to just use the X capacitor and connect it but i dont know if it is safe or not and what is the alternative, ? Should i use a TVS or flyback diode?
Thank you - I appreciate you! Is the X cap blown up, or also the Y caps? Was it shattered or burnt looking? I wonder if it was slowly damaged over time or burst from a lightning or surge? Is it a ceramic or poly (disc or box cap, or possibly Orange drop (molded type))? Is it X1, probably is. You can replace it with any type of X1 with a larger value as well. This filters noise from the blender so not to put the motor noise on the ac lines. They would likely use the smallest possible to save the cost. The Same goes for the Y caps, use Y1 and the same value any type or smaller value. The Y caps add leakage current on the ground and you don’t want too much of that. Don’t add TVS unless they are rated 10,000 Amps, but if they are rated in Watts they are not strong enough and will blow up eventually. The resistor value is too small, or was it in series with the X cap? If right across the lines it is probably k ohms. Did you measure it? Is it physically large?
@@KissAnalog Thank you for your fast reply, It is a cylinder combo XY capacitor in one component with five wires sticking out, the middle one (differing color, like transparent insulation hose) is supposed to be connected to the motor's stator iron it was an aluminium foil type with wax paper insulation layers rolled in between, this type of capacitors are known to explode and to pop their contents with force, which is my case, since the wax vaporizes and expands much more intensely and quickly than any plastic foil material will. I think it damaged over time because of deterioration of the insulation, this type of capacitor is so rare and I didn't find any with the same values, i just found one with same shape but with different value it was 0.1uF + 2x2700pF but i didn't purchase it because the 0.1 is far and not the same as 0.2uF and i need to connect it in parallel with other 0.1uF to obtain the 0.2uF.
so i got from that store a 0.22uF X2 MKP type and i intend to connect it only without any Y capacitor. sorry about the resistors it is 1.65 Mega ohm and it is ordinary physical resistor
I don’t think I’ve seen a capacitor like that. The poly caps used to be expensive, but they seem very reasonable now. Is the X2 cap rated for the voltage? The MKP are self healing too, so probably a nice upgrade. Thanks for sharing this;)
@@KissAnalog yes, 250 Volt I will send a photo for you
Thanks for this Very good explanation about Safety, the leakage 3mA from the capacitor to Gnd what about the differenceswitches or earth leak switch Only al the equipment on your table shoot trip the earth leak switch of 30 or 40 mA How you solved that problem?
Thanks Bert! Are you talking about the GFCI circuits?
I live in Thailand and see 1000 volt blue disc capacitors substituted for safety caps quite often. They obviously must be cheaper. But almost everything is still made in China.
That was awesome. Short and concise - a good reference for those that have trouble mixing their pluses and minuses. I'm sure I'll never remember which capacitor's which so it's good to have something to refer back to.
I'm not sure you had mentioned elsewhere that you were a closet audiophile. Now that we know that, can we hope into some "audiophile" stuff? For example (and it's not just audiophile related), I've always had trouble finding out why there are motor run caps and motor start caps and then there are just plain old regular caps. Now I know I'm never supposed to use a motor run cap as a motor start cap and vice-versa (especially vice-versa) but can I use a large capacitance, cheap motor start cap in my loudspeaker crossover or not? Or how about in a tube radio power supply? So can we have a similar video about these two specialized capacitor classes and their interchangeability with regular capacitors perhaps?
Thanks for the great feedback! The idea about the motor start caps is a great idea! Here's a link to an audio playlist: th-cam.com/play/PLZ0_iMoMBSsmeLp-eZfrBKMGOxrNQT_Mo.html
@@KissAnalog Ha! I see you've done a Gainclone too! This definitely takes me a while back! Re. motor start caps: I've been trying to find out about their general applicability/corresponding de-rating without success for ages. Not that I'd recommend it, but very often these can be had for nothing when scavenging parts from old equipment. At the same time, sometimes people throw away equipment just because of bad motor cap (which of course they wouldn't know about). All the same, these caps are cheap, and maybe sometimes free, when their regular equivalents (?) cost 10x more.
I agree. We need to do a good video to better explain this type of capacitor.
Now I know why you haven't been mountain biking
Yep - this is time consuming;) I hear the trails calling...
Great video! Excellent explanation!
How do I measure blown safety capacitor? Do I measure same as capacitor? I have been using a server type power supply for home use PC since 2008 and stopped working last week (12 yrs not bad!). Safety capacitor is X1. X1 is difficult to find in Thailand except importing from Taiwan. Would X2 work since I am using mainly at home (220v).
Hi Jun-Hwa that is a great question! You should be able to test it with a capacitor measurement meter - like the one on your multimeter. If there is no physical damage and the meter reads OK in capacitance - then it probably is OK. What is the reason you suspect the capacitor? You can safely replace an X1 with two X2 capacitors. Try to get double the value so in series it is back to the original value. Let me know how it goes...
@@KissAnalog Thank you for your reply and apologized for not backing to you sooner. I did a simple heat air blow onto the PSU and it turned on. Saw somewhere on youtube and tested it myself. So I started my project by getting all replacement caps (without cap measurement meter, a proper soldering gun and solder sucker pump :P). I replaced all caps, burned circuit board and RIP to old PSU lol. In the process, I found out that PSU manufacture used higher grade solder alloy probably mixed silver (melting point is 420C). Removed old caps took much long including X1. PSU didn't turn on T-T. Long story short, my friend gave me his spare 1000W PSU and PC is up running :)
Few days later, I ordered new digital clap meter with cap measurement meter later on and tested all old caps from PSU. Caps (Chemi-con Japanese caps) turned out values are in acceptable range after 12 years of use. X1 cap also fine. Could have waited for the new meter before starting the task but it was a good learning curve.
Master en Eddy about The Wall outlet in the Bathroom the normal wall outlet must be atleast 2 mtr away from the shower and not in the direction of the water spray and also the specia Switch GFI for safety
Sounds like a safe control. Thanks for sharing that - great info!
I have a bunch of surge protectors, each showing around 30 mA current at 240 VAC measured using a digital clamp ammeter. I'm trying to understand what is going on! They have 0.22 - 0.47 uF X2 capacitors across the line. I was concerned that this is wasted power. Is this leakage current or is it reactive power -- how can I tell? Someone suggested that it is reactive power that is not billed by the electric company. Would love your insights!
Thanks for the great question! This is very intersting - as it is reactive power - in a sense. However, it is actually a load so it will dissipate a very small amount of power. The X2 caps are well worth it - as it is an infantly small amount of dissipation.
Surge protectors typically have MOV protection devices which are also capacitive, so they will draw a bit of current - but not as much as the X caps.
I hope this helps.
@@KissAnalog I have another SPD that is only MOV based and has no X2 capacitor. The current is below my digital ammeter's measurement capabilities.
@@KissAnalog can you point me to any technical information that gives numbers for active vs reactive power of X2 capacitors (at 240 VAC 50Hz)? I did some googling and came up empty handed. Perhaps it is possible to derive this from the datasheets, but if so then I don't yet have the knowledge to do so.
So, which is actually better. 1 or 2? 1 will handle higher surge voltage, but will pass more leakage current. Correct?
1 is needed for higher voltage. Leakage is a function of the capacitor value.
I just found out about these things through Mr. Carlson's Lab. I've been an Electronics Engineer since 1982! In any case, thanks so much for taking the time to explain how these work along with a usable circuit diagram. Is my calculation correct that there would be 425mA leakage under normal conditions (assuming the neutral is not grounded to the chassis) for the series 4700pF Y2s? Isn't that a bit excessive...? I usually fuse my 35-watt tube radios with a 1/2 amp slow-blow fuse!
Thanks for the great question Denny! Leakage current should come out to just under the limit of 0.5 mA, so it looks like you might have got one of the numbers to the wrong power.
@@KissAnalog - Wow. You are right! Pico is -12, not -9... Duh!!
LOL
Do they not also fail open as well?
Yes, I think the idea is that they fail open. However, I don’t think I’ve ever seen one fail;)
sir,one thing i want to know that is EMIS Supress film box capacitor and Pulse Film box capacitor are same or not?....and make a video about the difference between emi suppress capacitor,pulse capacitor and PF corrector capacitor.because all are the box capacitor,so i am very confussed.express all with circuit diagram,please my sir....and can i use a ac pulse capacitor as a emi supress cpaciotor?....
Thanks for the great question. I'm sorry it took me so long to get to it. I'm having trouble keeping up so I try to get subs first then work my way through the list;) I'll do a video on this.
@@KissAnalogThank you very much my respectable sir....
Iam sorry I do not know what a gfci circuit is But we have here in Holland a safety switch What is measure the difference between the Life and Neutral . If there is more then 40 mA current difference , The switch trip , and shut of all the power in the complete building.
Some times there is a second for the bathroom with use of a wassing machine
OK that's interesting. This device is the same - it is looking for current in the line and neutral to be nearly the same. In the states the new standard requires a GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interruptor) to be used in any location that there can be moisture. It was just for swimming pools and such, then it became necessary for bathrooms and kitchens, but now I think it is for any unfinished spaces or 'for any space that may have moisture'. And then there is a Class A which is used for residential and has a limit of 5 mAmps and a class B which is meant to be more safety for the equipment and has a limit of 30 mAmps. Sometimes it is referred to as the GFI without the C.
In the USA we have to have a GFI on the plug of all hair driers because of safety due to "wet" locations like a bathroom where most people dry their hair
after a shower. Eddie explains what a GFCI and GFI does above as a reply!
why do we/engineer/convention call some high value pF caps and not nF, like why 4700pF and not 4.7nF. Does that mean they are different somehow?
Capacitors never used nF, but as the Art of Electronics is slipping away, so to are the conventions. In this case it wasn't really a big deal maybe. The uF was used to standardize the units, it made for several advantages, but maybe today the use of nF makes sense...I'm not sure...
Why do some x2's ave three pin/leads? Please.
Great question Don! I didn't know that they did, can you give me a part number and I'll look it up? Thanks!
@@KissAnalog cpc.farnell.com/evox-rifa/pzb300mc23r30/capacitor-delta-network-0-15uf/dp/CA08124?mckv=sx5FCDr5d_dc|pcrid|490691434319|kword||match||plid||slid||product|CA08124|pgrid|48077370878|ptaid|pla-369572310414|&CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-SHOPPING&s_kwcid=AL!5616!3!490691434319!!!network}!369572310414!&gclid=CjwKCAjwv_iEBhASEiwARoemvJ53EX_COiDB4gGTr0WKik04XBjd90MMmZXDecUiunRtCfb4mVh39xoCDq8QAvD_BwE
Sir how do check this capacitor
Thanks for asking! Do you mean electrically or visually? They will show a marking X2, X1, Y1, or Y2 on them.
I have an old 400v inverter for my EV that leaked high voltage to chassis and fried my 12v board.
Thanks for your feedback! Did you have the inverter chassis grounded, or tied to your 12V board (was it just a board or was it in a metal box)? Have you seen this grounding Rant? ;) th-cam.com/video/sgp-0xR8Voc/w-d-xo.html
Hate the term “safety cap” as it is a street term that’s offers no understanding of the conditions components in these applications work under.
I agree, but it is used so often I used the 'safety' in this title. They should be safe for line voltage because of their construction. But, the names 'RFI' and 'XY' are also used. It is unsafe to use normal poly caps on line voltages, so they made these with extra insulation between the capacitive metal elements to be 'safe'.
Balderdash! Its all smoke and mirrors.
LOL what do you mean?
Why do vid makers stall, stall, and more stalling before they get to the meat of the video. It's like you never want the vid to start. You just can't stop talking about nothing.
Sorry you didn't learn anything. You can hit the fast forward... What do you think we gain by stalling? It takes time to do a video - so if viewers click off - it doesn't help us.
@@KissAnalogsome people just like to complain 😅