I can tell the difference at 100% even though TH-cam compression and low resolution mitigates most of the difference. The issue comes when you CROP and don't show videos over the internet, then you may see the difference quite well.
The best compromise is offered by Pentax cameras which omit a physical Bayer-AA filter (technically it is not a "low pass filter" but a "birefringent plate") but allow one to optionally simulate its effect by moving the sensor by tiny amounts. This technique even supports the selection of different strengths of anti-aliasing.
Did you notice the dithering in the Hires mode pictures from the S1H? Look at the window frames on the right at 5:55, there is white/blue dithering around the windows, on the left there is just a stepped gradient.
yes i can see some small dithering from S1H hi-res. But from memory I was using a beta RAW converter to convert the hi res raw to JPG so it could be caused by software? If i have a chance to borrow the S1H again, i'll give it a try again
With video, the AA filter can eliminate or greatly diminish the shimmering/pulsing effect that is often visible when panning across things like trees, shrubs or anything else with variable lines or colors, which is very difficult to fix in post.
Nicely explained with well chosen examples - thanks. When I experienced some false colours with an α7R III (no OLPF) in the blinds of a building recently I was able to improve the image in Lightroom by applying the Moiré slider, which is found under the Adjustment Brush. One just has to be aware of repeating patterns, particularly if they're close to the horizontal or vertical axes. I'm sure you already knew this :)
The S1H seems to have a very slight green tint compared to the S1. I'm assuming you kept the settings identical on both cameras. Could the OLPF also be filtering out some infrared light?
All cameras are auto WB and yes I agree there is a slight green tint on the s1H footage. Could be the auto wb difference or could be the sensor/processing itself not too sure
Seeing this, I definetly wish, every camera would use am optical low pass filter. This tiny bit of sharpness totally does not justify the much more visible color errors on fine contrasty structures! 😕
the problem is most obvious when shooting human made structure with regular patterns. Fabrics or metal mesh etc. Organic scenes usually don't suffer much from this issue
@@drbeardo6960 Since I watched this video and see the comparison I have gone with Nikon without the low pass filter! To me its like shooting jpg or Raw, jpg with filter, raw without
I’m very new to the camera world like very new, is this something that is built on to the sensor whereby some cameras come with it and some don’t or is this a setting that can be turn off and on in the menu settings. Sorry if my questions sounds dumb, heard a lot of ppl talk about this so decide to research it
Yes correct. Some sensor has the filter and some dont. You can't really turn it on/off. There is no dumb question only people who want to learn and understand more :)
@@TheRealRichardWong Hi Richard. Thank you for this video, which supports my thoughts on the use of an AA filter in camera systems! As a landscape and product photographer (and image sharpness fanatic) currently using the Fuji X-System (no AA filter on the X-T3), I'm strongly considering going FF only because I print large posters, and though my X-T3 with some very sharp Fujinon XF lenses does give good results at 24" x 36", I believe that I could get even better (sharper/more detailed) prints with a FF System. My big conundrum, is deciding between the S1 with the Lumix S-Pro 24-105 f/4 Macro, OR the Nikon Z7 System. I'm especially attracted to the S1's "High Resolution Mode" that outputs a 96MB RAW file!). My question is, have you tested/compared these 2 systems, and can you recommend one over the other, in terms of an improvement in sharpness/detail retention from my Fuji X-T3, in large poster prints? (And is this 24-105 f/4 Macro sharper than, say, the Nikkor S 24-70 F/4? Thanks!
I wonder if an alternative de-bayering filter will improve the aliasing? I used Darktable and find that AMaZe does a good job at removing the cross channel noise in some photos.
Too late i already bought panasonic s1 for video. But if i shoot 10bit may be that time? Anyway i never live that color shift issue. Thanks for video 🙏
The false colour may not be a problem at all it really depends on what you shoot. If you mostly shoot people, wedding, documentary you may not see it at all. Also if you shoot full frame, the S1 does a full sensor downsample which also reduce the unwanted artifacts as well.
Hello Sir. Thank you for sharing this great content. I shoot music videos 80% of the time and documentaries and fiction for the 20% left. I would like to upgrade from my Canon 5D mark 3 that I bought about 5 years ago. What would you rationally recommend? Thank you for helping?
Thank you@@TheRealRichardWong . I will go for the S1H. I don't like changing cameras frequently. With the S1H, I have about 3 to 5 years before thinking of upgrading.
Perhaps it would have been more appropriate to use a portrait photograph where details such as eyelashes, wrinkles, skin pores can be appreciated ... Thank you very much for the review anyway
I'm trying to upgrade my camera I'm looking at the d7500 and the d7200 however they do not have the low pass filter and it is an important feature I don't want to lose my question is can this be recouped in lightroom or placing a filter over the lens? if so where can I buy?. I currently have the d5100 I wish I could get the pro-grade D500 but it's not in my budget at all. I want 4k, wifi low pass filter, the touch screen feature where you can touch the part of the subject and do continuous shoots, I need a faster shutter speed and faster zoom the d5100 is so slow, I have to go Nikon because I invested already in thousands in lenses and cannon is more for people who think they can do photography but cant. The perfect camera for me would be the Nikon d850 with the video and the megapixel is the best but that camera is extremely unaffordable. So what Nikon do you recommend under 1,000 that I can find that has mostly all these features.
Question, if S1 uses a perfectly sharp macro lens at 1:1 working distance, to shoot an ideally lit S1`s full frame sensor colour array filter mosaic without AA, what image would it get? A true to life mosaic RGGB. B every pixel is white C a grey scale photo of RGGB.
What resolution of monitor do you use? high resolution monitor will easily to see the difference of sharpness and better for high resulation camera? I plan to upgrade my monitor.
Im confused. If the OLPF softens the S1H enough to let the S1 out resolve it, then the S1H 6k will not have any more resolution than its 4k or the S1's 4K?
Hey Cliff, The soften by the OLPF is not really significant. Both the S1H and S1 can capture nice and clean 6k footage (for S1, you have to shoot in 6k photo mode), but the footage from the S1H should be marginally softer but still 6K resolution and would have less moire pattern / false colour. Hope that make sense.
Nice review using 2 cameras with same MP sensors, this is not possible for some other manufactures as they usually put low AA in the lesser MP sensors and non low AA for the higher one, such comparison will not be very meaningful. Guess you've been waiting for the S1H to come out to do this comparison
Haha yes. I was really quite curious to see the difference myself as well, so when I heard about the s1h, one of the first thing I did was to shoot this comparison photos
Maybe without AA filter is bad because for me I shot widlife so the fur from the birds will create moire which is very very annoying so I’ll keep the AA filter. I would sacrifice some quality then moire
THe first time you showed the without filter it didn1t have the artefactes the second time it did. somewhere you maniipulated the given info either obn purpase or not.
sorry I am not sure I understand. The first time I zoom in at 400% at 3:50 you can see the false colour already, actually the first time at 200% zoom at 2:59 you can also see a bit of false colours if you look closer.
Doesn't make sense to put AA filter in every new camera. 24mp full frame is very low pixel density by today's standard. Higher pixel density, less moire issue because each pixel occupies smaller area, less chance to have demasaic algorithm contamination. Nikon didn't put AA in D810 D850 Sony didn't put it in A7R3 R4 for a reason. ApsC has much higher pixel density, AA is less required.
you know... you don't need to shoot your videos on the right third of the rule of thirds for composition, it doesn't look good if you don't know when to use it. It's a bit unconfortable to be looking at the side of the screen, plus if you're gonna do that you can fill up some space on the left with whatever, it's a huge amount of dead space. Nice explanation though
Interesting topic and a good video. I use a GH5 now, so obviously interested in both these cameras.... although I have to be honest, I still love me some micro four thirds! Thanks for posting! liked/subbed
Thank you evil genius (haha great name) yes micro four thirds definitely still has a lot of advantages even compared to their big brothers. Thanks for the sub.. I got quite a few m43/l mount video coming very soon!
Thanks for the quick reply! Awesome about the MFT vids. I'm hoping the GH6 (assuming there is one) will be announced soon as I've really fallen in love with the format.
I can tell the difference at 100% even though TH-cam compression and low resolution mitigates most of the difference. The issue comes when you CROP and don't show videos over the internet, then you may see the difference quite well.
The best compromise is offered by Pentax cameras which omit a physical Bayer-AA filter (technically it is not a "low pass filter" but a "birefringent plate") but allow one to optionally simulate its effect by moving the sensor by tiny amounts. This technique even supports the selection of different strengths of anti-aliasing.
oh that sounds very interesting. i didn't know that at all Thanks for sharing that info TK Imagine Studio!
Did you notice the dithering in the Hires mode pictures from the S1H? Look at the window frames on the right at 5:55, there is white/blue dithering around the windows, on the left there is just a stepped gradient.
yes i can see some small dithering from S1H hi-res. But from memory I was using a beta RAW converter to convert the hi res raw to JPG so it could be caused by software? If i have a chance to borrow the S1H again, i'll give it a try again
With video, the AA filter can eliminate or greatly diminish the shimmering/pulsing effect that is often visible when panning across things like trees, shrubs or anything else with variable lines or colors, which is very difficult to fix in post.
Nice on Richard. The S1 will catch you out on the odd occasion when shooting clothing or fabric with a fine pattern, the moire can be a pain!
Hi Hugh, yeah I can imagine it would be a nightmare when you have some nasty moire pattern in your video!
Thank you, your video answered some questions I had.
In my opinion, anything you have to zoom in 400% to see is not an issue.
i would agree with you :)
@@TheRealRichardWong 😎👍
Nicely explained with well chosen examples - thanks. When I experienced some false colours with an α7R III (no OLPF) in the blinds of a building recently I was able to improve the image in Lightroom by applying the Moiré slider, which is found under the Adjustment Brush. One just has to be aware of repeating patterns, particularly if they're close to the horizontal or vertical axes. I'm sure you already knew this :)
Now I understand. The examples were better than any explanation. Thanks
Glad it helped!
The S1H seems to have a very slight green tint compared to the S1. I'm assuming you kept the settings identical on both cameras. Could the OLPF also be filtering out some infrared light?
All cameras are auto WB and yes I agree there is a slight green tint on the s1H footage. Could be the auto wb difference or could be the sensor/processing itself not too sure
I am having a hard time seeing the difference, even at that zoom. I think I'll keep my D750. Thanks!
Anti-Aliasing is mainly for moving lines in the video. Do you have a video comparison, please?
Fascinating with excellent examples. I have always wondered about this. Thank you very much!
How often do you get moire? Just the fact the low pass filter blurs the entire image a little is enough for me not to want it! I will go Nikon
Seeing this, I definetly wish, every camera would use am optical low pass filter.
This tiny bit of sharpness totally does not justify the much more visible color errors on fine contrasty structures! 😕
the problem is most obvious when shooting human made structure with regular patterns. Fabrics or metal mesh etc. Organic scenes usually don't suffer much from this issue
@@TheRealRichardWong Yes. Still I would prefer the filter. It's easy to sharpen things a bit in post ... to remove those color errors will be harder.
@@uhu4677 true, definitely harder to remove moire in post than sharpen up a bit
So, is Canon doing right thing.?
They put LPFilter in almost every cam
@@drbeardo6960 Since I watched this video and see the comparison I have gone with Nikon without the low pass filter! To me its like shooting jpg or Raw, jpg with filter, raw without
I’m very new to the camera world like very new, is this something that is built on to the sensor whereby some cameras come with it and some don’t or is this a setting that can be turn off and on in the menu settings. Sorry if my questions sounds dumb, heard a lot of ppl talk about this so decide to research it
Yes correct. Some sensor has the filter and some dont. You can't really turn it on/off. There is no dumb question only people who want to learn and understand more :)
Richard Wong thanks mate :)
Thank you for making this so easy to understand for me.
No probs. Glad you find it useful
the fact you have to zoom in 100% and beyond* to see a difference then it means the difference inst big enough...
Yes i agree :)
@@TheRealRichardWong Hi Richard. Thank you for this video, which supports my thoughts on the use of an AA filter in camera systems! As a landscape and product photographer (and image sharpness fanatic) currently using the Fuji X-System (no AA filter on the X-T3), I'm strongly considering going FF only because I print large posters, and though my X-T3 with some very sharp Fujinon XF lenses does give good results at 24" x 36", I believe that I could get even better (sharper/more detailed) prints with a FF System. My big conundrum, is deciding between the S1 with the Lumix S-Pro 24-105 f/4 Macro, OR the Nikon Z7 System. I'm especially attracted to the S1's "High Resolution Mode" that outputs a 96MB RAW file!). My question is, have you tested/compared these 2 systems, and can you recommend one over the other, in terms of an improvement in sharpness/detail retention from my Fuji X-T3, in large poster prints? (And is this 24-105 f/4 Macro sharper than, say, the Nikkor S 24-70 F/4? Thanks!
I wonder if an alternative de-bayering filter will improve the aliasing? I used Darktable and find that AMaZe does a good job at removing the cross channel noise in some photos.
Oh i have never tried Darktable. Will give it a try when I have some spare time and see how it works! Thanks!
Too late i already bought panasonic s1 for video. But if i shoot 10bit may be that time? Anyway i never live that color shift issue. Thanks for video 🙏
The false colour may not be a problem at all it really depends on what you shoot. If you mostly shoot people, wedding, documentary you may not see it at all. Also if you shoot full frame, the S1 does a full sensor downsample which also reduce the unwanted artifacts as well.
Hello Sir. Thank you for sharing this great content. I shoot music videos 80% of the time and documentaries and fiction for the 20% left. I would like to upgrade from my Canon 5D mark 3 that I bought about 5 years ago. What would you rationally recommend? Thank you for helping?
S1H is the best video camera if it fits your budget. Otherwise s1 is pretty decent and still a huge upgrade from your 5D3.
Thank you@@TheRealRichardWong . I will go for the S1H. I don't like changing cameras frequently. With the S1H, I have about 3 to 5 years before thinking of upgrading.
man thanks for your deep knoledge in photography i can learn a lot
Thanks for watching! Glad the video helped! :)
Perhaps it would have been more appropriate to use a portrait photograph where details such as eyelashes, wrinkles, skin pores can be appreciated ...
Thank you very much for the review anyway
I'm trying to upgrade my camera I'm looking at the d7500 and the d7200 however they do not have the low pass filter and it is an important feature I don't want to lose my question is can this be recouped in lightroom or placing a filter over the lens? if so where can I buy?. I currently have the d5100 I wish I could get the pro-grade D500 but it's not in my budget at all. I want 4k, wifi low pass filter, the touch screen feature where you can touch the part of the subject and do continuous shoots, I need a faster shutter speed and faster zoom the d5100 is so slow, I have to go Nikon because I invested already in thousands in lenses and cannon is more for people who think they can do photography but cant. The perfect camera for me would be the Nikon d850 with the video and the megapixel is the best but that camera is extremely unaffordable. So what Nikon do you recommend under 1,000 that I can find that has mostly all these features.
Question, if S1 uses a perfectly sharp macro lens at 1:1 working distance, to shoot an ideally lit S1`s full frame sensor colour array filter mosaic without AA, what image would it get? A true to life mosaic RGGB. B every pixel is white C a grey scale photo of RGGB.
If the sensor pixel is clearly visible (like a monitor) I guess yes? But I don't know if that's the case.
What resolution of monitor do you use? high resolution monitor will easily to see the difference of sharpness and better for high resulation camera? I plan to upgrade my monitor.
27" 4k screen :)
LG 4k monitors are very good, *very happy* with them. 27" good size for 4K
Im confused. If the OLPF softens the S1H enough to let the S1 out resolve it, then the S1H 6k will not have any more resolution than its 4k or the S1's 4K?
Hey Cliff, The soften by the OLPF is not really significant. Both the S1H and S1 can capture nice and clean 6k footage (for S1, you have to shoot in 6k photo mode), but the footage from the S1H should be marginally softer but still 6K resolution and would have less moire pattern / false colour. Hope that make sense.
Hi Richard Wong buying S1 for videos Is it a good idea I want your advice please let me know thank you
Yes I think so, unless you can afford s1h which is even better
@@TheRealRichardWong thank you
Great job. Thank you!
Thank you for watching
omg the difference is so tiny, why did they removed AA filter from S5II 😭
Nice review using 2 cameras with same MP sensors, this is not possible for some other manufactures as they usually put low AA in the lesser MP sensors and non low AA for the higher one, such comparison will not be very meaningful. Guess you've been waiting for the S1H to come out to do this comparison
Haha yes. I was really quite curious to see the difference myself as well, so when I heard about the s1h, one of the first thing I did was to shoot this comparison photos
Maybe without AA filter is bad because for me I shot widlife so the fur from the birds will create moire which is very very annoying so I’ll keep the AA filter. I would sacrifice some quality then moire
Nice lighting.
AVICIIZ Thank you Yes slowly getting the setup to what I like!
Good explanation, thanks.
thanks for watching :)
Wow nicely explained sir🔥
THe first time you showed the without filter it didn1t have the artefactes the second time it did.
somewhere you maniipulated the given info either obn purpase or not.
sorry I am not sure I understand.
The first time I zoom in at 400% at 3:50 you can see the false colour already, actually the first time at 200% zoom at 2:59 you can also see a bit of false colours if you look closer.
THANKSMAN for the valuable information 👏👏
My pleasure!
At the end I understood thanks u so much
You are welcome
Doesn't make sense to put AA filter in every new camera. 24mp full frame is very low pixel density by today's standard. Higher pixel density, less moire issue because each pixel occupies smaller area, less chance to have demasaic algorithm contamination. Nikon didn't put AA in D810 D850 Sony didn't put it in A7R3 R4 for a reason. ApsC has much higher pixel density, AA is less required.
Sony APS-C 24mp cameras have moire issues- I find it quite annoying shooting urban scenes (roof tiles, wires, etc.)
OLPF gives film-like results - not so sharp which looks unnatural. OLPF is a good thing
you know... you don't need to shoot your videos on the right third of the rule of thirds for composition, it doesn't look good if you don't know when to use it. It's a bit unconfortable to be looking at the side of the screen, plus if you're gonna do that you can fill up some space on the left with whatever, it's a huge amount of dead space. Nice explanation though
thanks for the feedback Pablo!
Thank you, very very useful information 🙏👌
Welcome 😊
Interesting topic and a good video. I use a GH5 now, so obviously interested in both these cameras.... although I have to be honest, I still love me some micro four thirds! Thanks for posting! liked/subbed
Thank you evil genius (haha great name) yes micro four thirds definitely still has a lot of advantages even compared to their big brothers. Thanks for the sub.. I got quite a few m43/l mount video coming very soon!
Thanks for the quick reply! Awesome about the MFT vids. I'm hoping the GH6 (assuming there is one) will be announced soon as I've really fallen in love with the format.
Yes Panasonic, hurry release the GH6!!!
Yes, it's about time. Hopefully Panasonic doesn't "cripple hammer" the GH6.
@@evilgeniusentertainment haha you watch Camera Conspiricy!
Look at the colour of the top row of windows in the high rise building lol. Dramatic difference.
thank you sir
Most welcome
I think a camera without an AA filter is much better when you're using software to enlarge images.
Awesome video!
Great video !!
Very informative
Thank you doctor!
Ok in the end there s no difference camon... We have to look at microscope to see "some" difference! 😒
*.jpg*
That's all you have to know about this video.