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@@incogspectator3042I never noticed that corrolation, very interesting 🤔 did theon die in the end by the way? You can put a spoiler warning in your answer. I can't remember because I haven't watched the full game of thrones in a long while. I think I rewatched it three or four times when it ended lol, but that was years ago.
He surrendered the castle because Jamie told him he would launch his baby into the castle with a catapult if he didn’t. Honestly, you believe everything everyone says in the show and you must know y now that you just can’t do that. Jamie made that threat to get him to relent so Jamie wouldn’t have to slaughter everyone. He did what Browne asked.
When Margaery visits her brother Loras in his cell to encourage him to be strong, is instead shocked to find a broken, severely tortured man. Loras compels her to make it stop. This moment Margaery begins her plan of their escape through playing the Sparrow’s game. Everything she is doing is for the love of her brother Loras and her desire to save him.
Jaime's reaction after finding out Blackfish is dead is very important. Especially after speaking with Edmure, it shows he's not going to sleep tonight. The series don't show us Jaime's POV and his thoughts as much but his whole life is struggling with the concept of honour (also the name of his white horse). Blackfish is someone he respected a lot. Renowned as one of the greatest battle commanders in Westeros, Jaime looked up to him. It was Blackfish who led Tully and Stark forces in the battle of the Whispering Woods, so he basically captured Jaime and took him from Cersei for years, but Jaime still respected him. He only met him 2-3 times but Jaime was desperate for his respect. He felt the same way about other people like Barristan Selmy and Arthur Dayne, not so much about Tywin because he never wanted to be like him. Hearing that Blackfish died an honourable death only reminded him of who he is. Edmure hit the nail on the head when they spoke, and he understood that in that moment. To me, Jaime is an absolute masterpiece of a character by GRRM, and Nikolaj does a wonderful job portraying him with the limited material.
Great comment. The Blackfish is definitely one of Jaime's personal heroes. There is just one thing I think you might be wrong about. I don't think they ever met before, which is why Jaime is eager to finally meet the hero he lionized for so long. Am I wrong?
You were surprised when Edmure gave up so easily & ordered his men to lay down their weapons & leave the castle , but remember earlier Jamie threatened Edmure that he would catapult his baby into the river & would do whatever it takes in order to get back to Cersei. After hearing that Edmure decided to completely submit to Jamie's demands which is understandable but also horrifying & disturbing.
Exactly. Edmure surrendered the castle -- and the entire Tully army. In effect, he has become a vassal of the Lannisters. I am not sure why Spartan and Pudgey did not understand that. Edmure capitulated to save his family -- it was all he had left. But he is not an independent agent now. The Lannisters could put the entire Tully garrison in irons or even put them to the sword. Edmure has no power to stop them.
....and that's the reason Jaime made the threat. He knew what kind of person Edmuire thought he was, and he played up to it. He resolved the conflict with virtually no violence. He did the right thing, and was seen as dishonourable for it. That's kind of his character's whole theme and motivation.
And it's important to remember that Lord Edmure does not know the Jamie that Brienne does. To Edmure, Ser Jamie Lannister is the Kingslayer, so he has no trouble believing his terrible threats.
That’s where reaction videos annoy me sometimes. People miss important dialogue trying to act up for the reaction. Should stop, chat and then start again
It's the 'Brotherhood WITHOUT Banners', the idea is that they fight for justice for everyone, especially for the poor, not just for the interests of one Family or another. In a society where eveyone is affiliated with some family's sigil, the people with Beric and Thoros have renounced to alll Banners and fight for the ones suffering because of the wars fought among the big lords.
@@estebanroque504 😂 I have noticed that too...he's either dead on or so far out of the park it's another sport. Props to him for putting it himself out there though. Takes guts to do it.
Correct but you dont understand what Spartan was saying. Cersei backed down for a second during their conversation, not during the overall altercation.
Jaimie threatened Edmure that he would launch his baby son over the walls of the castle and slaughter everyone in the castle unless he went in there as its Lord and told the army to stand down and give the castle to the Frey forces. Jaimie is trying to do this as Brienne asked to take the castle without bloodshed, while still achieving his goal. Brienne had to get out of there as everyone will be prisoners once the castle is taken. Jacqen is proud of Arya. He likes her. He knows that she will give names to the faceless God, whether she is there with him or if she leaves. Their God got his name since rhe waif died. He trained Arya so now she can look after herself. It's much better than when she came to him.
@@knowmoremutants the girl doesn't make sense in the show. She is ALREADY no one, so she doesn't need to be tested AND she is envy and angry but she shouldn't be like that because she's no one and no one doesn't care for sh** like that
Your guys interpretation of Aryas arc is right on point. She would never lose her Stark heritage as the waif said "She'll never be one of us." To be no one you serve with no regard for self or judge you just kill. The Faceless Men are a mysterious religion that worships death so long as someone dies the debt is paid. Never underestimate Cersei.
But that can't be the way of the Faceless Men if they could just kill anyone why even bother going on "missions". Besides when she had to kill the Thin Man she went after Meryn Trant and killed him instead but that was a problem to Jaqen so that whole "as long as someone dies the debt is paid" doesn't really hold water imo. We do not know much about the Faceless Men but what we do know doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
@@PohiI mean, as much sense as what got Arya into Jaquen's gold graces to begin with. Arya saved him and Rorge and Biter from captivity and, as a "reward" for sparing 3 names from the one true god, Jaquen offered his services to send 3 names in exchange that Arya named (with him phrasing it as meeting the quota of lives that should have ended that she saved). Yet when she names him to force his hand, he tries to bargain with her to make her change his mind and "un-name" him and he eventually gives her the coin, changes his face, and fucks off...not even mentioning that we have no clue (beyond fan theories) why the hell a faceless man is just chilling in a caravan going North from King's Landing. So Jaquen was in the area to fulfill a contract, we don't know who for, but still flippantly makes a deal with this little girl who rescued him and two others to fulfill marks just because she saved them from dying? Or the fact that he managed to be captured at all and I guess was seemingly resigned to death because he includes himself as one of the names Arya taken from the Many Faced God and would have just allowed himself to die or only kill one person to meet the quota for himself then escape but then also had to bargain with Arya to name someone other than Jaquen and then didn't actually take a third name iirc? The Faceless Men have been very wonky and all over the place since the beginning, not just here. And that's not even talking about their origins in Valyria and the group taking vague credit for the end of the Dragonlords...aka the Doom of Valyria.
@@Mrryn I'm not sure, if I understood all of that you wrote, but the Faceless Men are just people, in the books that's pretty clear in Arya's training, they're not ninjas or god like, they're good at planning and killing, they can be capture and kill, but they're like religious fundamentalist with the dead thing
@@TheReDeeMeR1988 I mention the books because the show is an adaptation and because the books have consequences, the show loses that. We have clever characters in the show who make dumb decisions, we have characters who change and then they aren't changed, we have people who should be loyal (for example the northmen) but then they don't want to revenge their deaths. The show is different and that's ok, but its not ok when the story or characters become trash because of the changes
Been telling them all along, they still think he is on some kind of redemtion arc and it's Cersei that doesn't allow him to go there or whatever, and changes him back Jaime Lannister is just Jaime Lannister, always has been, we just met him when he pushed kid out of window because of incest, then we learned other facts about him, like killing the Mad King, and we somehow think he changes (literally re-telling what happened 17 years ago with him, that's not change)
19:09 One thing you can't ignore is that no one can play Cersie Lannister better than Lena Headay even her walk is so much in character that even when she is down/beaten you still want her to suffer
My interpretation of Jaqen H'ghar's reaction at the end is that what he really wanted to test is Arya's ability to stay herself in spite of all their attempts to destroy her identity. The many-faced god represents death, and you have to fight against him in order to stay yourself, not to sink into oblivion.
When Daenerys showed up, The look on her face was like that of a parent who comes home early just to find the kids threw a party that has gone out of control. Next two episodes are not only the best of the season, they’re part of the top 10 of the show!
Remember when nobody was safe on this show? Now we have Arya getting stabbed multiple times in the gut, thrown into sewerage water, and then somehow being completely healed by some soup and a good night’s rest. Then the next day she is expertly parkouring through the streets like nothing happened. Goes to show just how laughable the writing became when they ran out of book material.
No one is safe, and Arya is no one. 😅 Also, Arya in the books will be safe until the end because that's the deal GRRM made to his wife whose favorite character is Arya. Unless he managed to wiggle through a loophole in that deal and kill her in the end. But i get you, and i share your frustration, GRRM wouldn't write something as stupid as what Arya had gone through shown in the tv series. 😂
@@ceazer5963 First of all it's called fantasy, not sci-fi. And just because a fantasy story has dragons in it, it doesn't mean that all arguments for logic, realism, and consistency should be dismissed.
Hahaha same.. Actually I thought by having seen HOTD first with the "Prince that was promised" storyline they would have catch it before. But it looks like they have no clue
I genuinely don't know if I would have realized Brienne and Jaime were on a collision course here if I hadn't already read it in the books. Good catch, Spartan, credit where credit is due.
17:47 The idea that the Blackfish wouldn't care about helping Sansa is ludicrous. In the books, he thinks all of Cat's children are dead, so he is hoping to fight for Robin Arryn, his last remaining grandnephew, and since Robb was king of the Trident, the heir to the Riverlands.
he chooses to pointlessly die for the sake of an old castle that hasnt been his home for decades rather than help his own family that's desperately asking for his help, so dumb
In the book, he escapes the castle by swimming down the river. He'll turn up again sometime. In the show, they just wanted to dispose of a character for whom they had no further use.
Initially, I found the plot of "The Faceless Man" somewhat perplexing, but upon deeper analysis, it began to unravel and make more sense to me. It seems that in order for Arya to become a faceless man, she had to first master her own identity. When Jaqen broke and blinded her, it was as if he granted her the ability to truly see herself. It was a transformative experience that required her to embrace her true nature and understand her own character. Now, Arya is a faceless man embodying the persona of Arya Stark completely, for she has gained a profound awareness of her own identity and is able to play herself perfectly. Jaqen is happy as he sees that she has mastered her fist face witch is Arya Stark, this will aid her in assuming other faces and being able to inbody other characters in the future.
Spartan you like the High Sparrow because of how he treated Cersei. But he also imprisoned Margaery and Loras without any good reason. He's a pretentious asshole who uses fanatics under him to wield his power. He doesn't need to be bought because he got power the other way around. Imo he's just as power hungry as the rest of them lords.
The High Sparrow is literally a homophobe and sexist who's using his religion and power to torture innocent people. Still, they somehow find a way of saying Cersei is wrong in this (?) Man, I spent the whole season ROOTING for Cersei to kill them all haha
40:29 You do realize that that wasn't really Tommen's decisions right? That he is bacially the High Septon's puppet now. And the High Septon essentially coerced Margaery into converting Tommen.
Really surprised by Spartan that he liked that decision and especially when Tyrion had used trial by combat twice already. I'd understand if they just removed possibility of using champions but removing the whole concept is whack.
@@Pohi Also, by law, the Queen wether its Margaery or Cersei, can only have a knight of the King's Guard as her champion in a trial by combat. Nobody else. In the books, Lora is not in KL, and he's wounded. Jaime is in the Riverlands, so she can't name him either. It's too bad that the show didn't make it a point to show who all the knights of the King's Guards are. Because originally, Cersei can't have the Mountain as her champion because he's not a member. But after the Arys Oakheart get killed in Dorne protecting Myrcella, that's when Cersei see an opening to have The Mountain in the King's Guard so he can be her champion.
In the books this was Jaime acting up to Edmures expectations of him being this evil villain. Jaime wouldn't kill a baby with no purpose to it, the threat though ends the siege. It was a smart play playing on peoples expectations of him. Remember the first season he always allowed others to think of him as their predisposed perceptions were an never corrected them. Layer of self defense I guess? Made into a useful tool here
Jamie wouldn't launch a baby with a catapult?? 😅😅How much blood has Jamie shed in the name of house Lannister? In the name of cersei? His redemption arc is a myth
@@82joon He would not even have done it in season 1. It's not because he pushed Bran that he would be willing to throw a baby on a castle! lol please check your brain. He didn't stab the Mad King for joy, he didn't it to avoid a catastrophe. Secondly, Jaime has changed a lot. Just in his personaly itself. He is completely different and it would be lying to yourself to think that. He is not the cocky lead rooster of the barn.
@Johnny Skinwalker Who else validates Jamie's mad king "burn them all" narrative ?..has it ever occured to you that Jamie's side of the story helps him sleep a little better at night after seeing how the consequences of his decision would haunt his future ? What about strangling his cousin to death while imprisoned by the north ? I don't get u fans' Jamie delusion
That scene with Brienne returning Oathkeeper, there's pure magic in their chemistry. When she looks at him painfully, hesitates for a second as it seems like her stoic disposition is about to break, but then she abruptly turns her head and walks out of the camp...that part hits me in the feels everytime. It's a tragedy that's fated to be. Those who look at these things as filler on some "let's get to the fighting" shit, I genuinely feel we were watching the show for different reasons.
@@skurinski ya idk how they don't like or at least appreciate her character and how good she is at playing " the game of thrones"..They always shit on Cersei but the same 2 ppl both had Little Finger on their like list at 1 point because how clever and good he was at "playing the game"..makes no sense
Perhaps but Jaime did push a child out a window to protect Cersei so i wouldn't be surprised if it was an empty threat but i also wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't. That's what makes/made Jaime such a great character arguably the second best one in the show.
@@NiKiMa023 i would say LF imo. Every time the guy is on screen, it feels like everyone suddenly sits properly and increases the volume even though they have subtitles on, and then make 50 different interpretations of why he used a fullstop and not a comma and what does it mean when his 4th blink is a little faster than his 2nd one.
I like Pudgey's interpretation of Arya's story line. The more they tried to get her to abandon her true self, the more Arya rebelled against them. Basically, everything she had experienced since season 1 was conspiring and acting to tear her down. First she had to pretend to be "Arry," then she was Tywin Lannister's servant, and then she was told directly to be "no one." Finally, she gained the strength to fight for her own identity. All of the childhood innocence has now been completely burned away. But in its place, she has been empowered to truly be who she is destined to be.
Remember what Jaquen said when they first met, You stole a life from the Red God,you must give it back.. So when she refused to kill the actress, a life was still needed...So Jaquen sent the other girl to claim Arya. or if Arya was the more skilled either way the Red God is satisified. And He then said finally she is No One... but she said no i am Arya Stark.. so you can take that two ways.. She is back to being Arya.. or she is No One merely in the role of Arya Stark who knows her background and her list.
@@littlemcguire15 well that in itself could flip it on the waif,as the waif was sanctioned only to Kill Arya. not the actress.. so then she stole from the Red God.. and in doing that...Did that action mean Arya shouldnt die.. hence her victory..???
40:40 Idk what Spartan would consider Cersei “doing something on her own” is. When little finger or Tywin had other people do things, it’s considered “clever” but when Cersei does, it’s highlighted that it’s not Cersei physically involved.
Cersie is a spoilt brat who abuses power she didn't earn. Tywin and Littlefinger earnt their way to where they are so they have more credibility. still there's room to consider your points, she does get her victories in the current timeline in a similar manner. I just dont like Cersie 😂
@@SpartanandPudgey not a fan of Cersei either, just saying that she makes use of the tools available to her with the skills she was raised with from Tywin’s upbringing and that it’s not really realistic to expect her to be leading an army with fighting skills. I bet if she had shown any interest in fighting as a child like Arya did, Tywin would have been very dismissive instead of how Ned was encouraging. So she never had that opportunity afforded to her. She even talks about how annoyed she felt with her and Jamie being raised so differently because he’s a man and she’s a woman. So she tries to make the use of the skillset she was raised with. She’s still awful. Just don’t think criticizing her for not being like Stannis leading physically is really warranted
@@SpartanandPudgeyHow did Cersei not earn her power? The Mountain is here because she instructed Qyburn to save him and offered him whatever he needed, and she has Qyburn on her side because she saw the potential in him and recruited him. These are all power points she earned.
I’m so glad they’re liking Seasons 5-6. I think the quality of the shows was sustained beginning to end. Enjoying watching this with y’all. Love from Texas, USA.
For Arya, I didn’t like the fact that anyone receiving those types of stabs to the stomach would die (during those times). Any perforation of the intestines or bowels you would go septic. However, I thought they could get around it by Lady Crane saying as she stabbed former lovers then patched them up she used some magical healing drops she discovered from the far end of the world where they toured and these would help heal Arya faster. If we have dragons, Melisandre, and people that come back to life surely we can have some magical healing drops?
When Jaime says 'It's yours. It'll always be yours', I legit got sentimental just thinking what a long journey these two characters have had. A really compelling scene between the two hopeless romantics. If this was any other show they would be making out in that tent, you know that. Well they would've made out long before this, in that bath, back in Season 3. And yet, that look of pure sadness they gave each other said more than a thousand make out scenes could've ever expressed. There's something refreshingly organic to this emotion here that's often missing elsewhere. Probably just for how agonizing the build has been. Btw Jaime taking Riverrun with Rains of Castamere playing in the back is my type of aesthetic. Tywin's probably somewhere looking up, finally proud of his son.
Aria is brilliant. She set up that stand-off with Waif. Getting stabbed wasn’t part of the plan but running through the city with Waif following her was the real plan. She knew she was gonna be hunted, and she knew who would come after her. It’s why she didn’t have Needle on her. Didn’t it seem strange that despite knowing the dangerous people looking for her, she didn’t have her best weapon on her? She left a blood trail on purpose. So that she would be followed into that dark room. Why else would she leave Needle there? She left it where she knew she was gonna need it. She knew that is how she will beat her, by forcing Waif to fight blind, something that Aria learned how to do. There was no need to see the fight. Once the candle went out, that fight was over.
And the writers are awful, Waif (a faceless man) a master assassin. Just decides to run and chase her? This whole arc is so poorly written. Hyped when I first watched it but rewatching it, it makes no sense.
_Meh,_ the Arya scenes here are just stupid. She would be lucky to survive this kind of trauma with 21st century medical care. And then there is a year, or more probably two, of reconvalescence. Instead, she runs and jumps off walls as though she only had some bruises, 12 hours after the injury. It's just plain stupid.
So basically, after all these injuries in her belly Arya was healed by some magic soup. While common people would probably be dead, Arya instead runs from Waif so fast, that any special agent or marine these days would feel ashamed of himself. Don't forget jumping from the balcony, falling on the street, etc. An improved version of James Bond, that's for sure.
Show Cersei was a deeply flawed human, who got dealt a pretty shit hand in life all things considered and still snagged victories for herself here and there (often to the detriment of everyone else). Cersei in the books is an irredeemable unhinged monster.
Exactly! He's just SOOO salty about her he's inventing stuff like "she backed down in the conversation", never recognizes when she does something good, and so on.... Pretty grating.
I feel that the faceless men are using her to help fight the undead. The central tenet of the faceless men is that “all men die” and the undead challenge that notion.
@@havok6280 maybe because the baby was not shown and only mentioned in dialogue it slipped their mind. Especially when in the moment they are getting frustrated with Jaime's loyalty to Cersei, someone who is beyond awful and treats him like shit
If you remember Jamie just threatened to kill Edmure's infant son if he didn't go in and get the castle to surrender. That's why he "turned". It's not weird when you think of it like that.
25:17 The Riverrun soldiers are not dumb. They know it's likely a trap, but honor and loyalty compels them to open the gates, because legally Edmure is the Lord of Riverrun, not the Blackfish.
Well he is legally the head of the Tullys, but he is not the legal ruler of Riverrun. Legally the castle belongs to Walder Fray, but Blackfish is the current ruler by right of conquest. Edmure does not really have any claim to Riverrun as of right now. The solodiers are however honourbound to obey Edmure as they are Tully soldiers and he is their rightfull ruler.
@@rahilrameez8635 That's fair. I'm guessing you think they shouldn't have opened the gate, which is totally valid. The question then becomes, do you think Jaime would have followed through on his threat? Would he have killed Edmure and his son?
@@Mic-Mak well he makes a point to tell the Frey idiots to never make a threat you won't follow through on. So I guess he really would have killed Edmure if it came to that.
@@whateverreally1347 Good point, but the truth is, we don't know. In the books, it is very clear that Jaime is on somewhat of a mini redemption arc, and it's therefore very unclear if he would actually do it. However, when he threatens Edmure in the books, there is a witness, and that witness is likely to cause trouble for Jaime. Even if Jaime never had decide on whether or not he'd kill Edumure and his son, the simple fact that he threatened him in front of a witness is going to cause him trouble. He promised to Lady Catelyn that he would never harm Stark or Tully again, but threatening them could still be seen as doing just that, because we have no proof that he wouldn't follow with his threat.
The Waif had gotten the best of Arya over and over again and there's no reason to believe this time would've been any different. Except in the only situation where she had an advantage over The Waif...in blindness. A skill that she had acquired specifically because she refused to let go of her human emotions. That moment of her slicing out the candle with Needle was pretty badass. One more typical headchopping sequence wouldn't have done anything for her character. The Mountain already had that covered. The way this was done, bringing it full circle to the blind training and leaving the rest to imagination, was much more inventive and made for an awesome climax.
The reason Jaqen is pleased with Aria goes back to a side comment earlier in the series that most people missed or didn't give any weight to. The Waif says (about Aria), "She'll never be a Faceless Man" and Jaqer responds "No. Perhaps she will become something else." (not sure if exact but this is the base of his answer).
40:30 Cersei is undoubtedly a bad leader, but I reject the general idea that a leader who doesn't physically fight is automatically a bad leader. There are a lot of good leaders who are not fighters. All that being said, a leader should have an appreciation for the risk he is asking his followers to take, and Cersei definitely doesn't have that.
He(jaqen) was proud of her. You can see the proud look on his FACE as She Leaves as his sword of vengeance on the world... he realizes he cant conyrol her, but shes his most promising student, so hes fine with arya being unleashed on westeros.
So the dude that gets a finger in his bum is from my city Ottawa Ontario Canada. He was invited to appear on the show because the producers saw his TH-cam video doing GoT impressions and loved it. His name is Steve Love and he was my Uber driver once.
In the books The Blackfish is a legendary fighter and Jamie knew of his exploits and admired him. Their interaction was great and the actor who played him was perfect.
Hey crew! About that confusing end scene in the House of Black and White. Here's a perspective. Arya completed the training. The Old Gods put a lot of faith in the concept of Trial by Combat. If the Faceless God had not wanted Arya as one of their Servants, they would have let the Waif kill Arya, but the opposite happened, so of course, Arya has proven her favor in the eyes of her God. Arya passes her trial by combat, returns the Waif's face to the House of Black and White, and the High Priest there, Jacqen, declares in the temple that Arya's training is complete. She's a jedi like her father. "Finally a girl is no one." Arya, as a newly graduated Faceless Man, stands in the House of Black and White, among every Face the Faceless have accumulated for their use, and declares as her first statement as a priestess, what her mission is going to be, and where she's going to go. "A girl is Arya Stark, of Winterfell, and I'm going home." She's not disobeying him. She's telling him that the Faceless God is sending No One to resume the life of Arya Stark in Westeros to serve the God's purposes in whatever the hell is afoot in Westeros. And he knows she is perfect for the role, but he also knows she was able to overcome the emotional ties to her old identity to leave her cold enough and ruthless enough to do whatever the Faceless God might require. She's a jedi now. Go dance faces with the blessings of Mother Temple, No One of the House of Black and White, and send the Faceless God their tribute in lives spilled. If Arya had been quitting or disobeying or denying the Game of Identities (which never ends) she wouldn't have used such a precise sentence structure. She starts agreeing she is No One, because when she speaks, she uses the third person. "A girl is Arya Stark". And after she declares the Face that she is now wearing and the identity that she is going to use, "A girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell." She then switches and assumes that identity again fully, and flips to the first person, "And I'm going home." If she were disobeying or rebelling against Jacqen, the line woud have been "- I - am Arya Stark of Winterfell, and I'm going home." But "A Girl" is Arya Stark, so she's promising to stay true at heart to the training of the Faceless Men. She is now one of them forever.
But "no one" is not supposed to choose her task and Jaqen hasn't been able to give her one since this is apparently the first time they speak again after she left for the theatre.
@@Leo_ofRedKeep Not so. When Jacqen tries to recruit Arya in S2, he tempts her with "A girl has many names on her list ... She can offer them up to the Manyfaced god."
Yes, exactly! I wrote something similar in a separate comment: "Jaqen smiles when Arya says "a girl is arya, and I'm going home," and he lets her go. Because from his point of view, he has succeeded in training a perfect assassin. And like he says to her when first offering to train her, he knows that she will offer MANY names to the many-faced god, one by one. And so it doesn't matter if she really is or isn't Arya Stark. She's going to Westeros to deal a bunch of death, and to Jaqen, it doesn't matter is she's doing it as an assignment, or to just be a free-roaming faceless man, dealing out justice. It's super ambiguous, and I think it's the perfect setup for whatever's next in Arya's story."
wow that's really insightful Adam, thanks for clarifying that. very interesting subtle writing that makes these interactions so much deeper than at first glance
Great banter as always! Regarding Arya, The House of Black and White stuff in the books was going in a different direction. As for Riverrun, Jaime told Edmure he'd launch his infant son out of a catapult in one of the most chilling monologues of the series. I think that, on top of the Black Fish callously disregarding his imprisonment for years during the siege gave Edmure a pretty logical reason to hand over the Castle, as foolish or sudden as the change of heart may have seemed for house Tully.
Almost like instead of experiencing that total death of the ego, losing herself and becoming no one, Arya was able to find herself - and we know a warrior is her true self, as she never wanted to "be a lady".
The High Sparrow hasn't stripped His power. He got His power through His religion. He says it's the will of the Gods what he does. But actually he does what He wants to do and hides His hunger for Power behind his religion.
We are now just 1 episode away from it. What is 'it' you ask? 'It' is only the best hour ever put on a screen in the history of all screens. Episode 10 "The Winds of Winter" will NEVER be topped by any movie, show, production, commercial....ANYTHING. Every single second of the episode is sheer perfection. PERFECTION.
Jaime in the books is so much more rich and "noble". The books are written as Point of Views so you spend alot of time inside character's thoughts. Jaime spends alot of time figuring out how to end the Tully rebellion while still honoring his vow to Catelyn not to ever take up arms against the Tully's. He's extremely clever and somewhat vicious "on the surface" but it's all in service to avoid actual bloodshed. Also, again...at least in the books, at this point, Jaime is done with Cersei. She sends a raven asking him for help but he doesn't even read it...he throws it into the fire.
the shows' writers are big Lena Heady simp so they kept Jaime like that. But I don't understand how even watching this scene with Edmure on the show, people don't realise Jaime is doing this as a strategy.
Daenerys may be the mother of dragons but Cersei "I choose violence" Lannister was the mother of a thousand memes 😂😂😂. Also Tyrion breaking fourth wall with that "most famous dwarf in the world" quip 😂
That’s why Ian McShane’s short arc is so nice for perspective. He’s in the same position as the high sparrow and says “violence is a disease. can’t get rid of it by spreading it”
“What did they do to turn him so much?” I don’t know.. maybe threatening to launch his baby into the castle with a catapult had something to do with it. Also I think Jaime just said all of that to end the conflict with as little violence as possible. He clearly doesn’t mind being seen as the villain when he knows he’s doing what he thinks is right.
I don't know if these guys read the talkbacks but here we go: You didn't seem to get what Jaime was trying to do. He tried to reason with Edmure but Edmure would not have it, he kept seeing Jaime as a monster. So Jaime used the perception Edmure had in him to scare him into giving up the castle(talking about killing the Tullys and his wife and kid). And it worked! It was a genius powerplay by Jaime. Whatever side he is in, you should be proud of him. Spartan keep loving people that do good battle strategies, that was an epic one.
@@sandimcalisterblood2675 Agree. Spartan even said that about the Battle of the Bastards "this is probably the best battle in tv shows i ever saw". It's that good!
Blackfish dying off screen in the show with only the line “he died fighting” when he’s still alive in the books after escaping to continue the fight still pisses me off
Jaqen always knew Arya would never be a faceless man...he said so a few times. Like when the Waif said, "you'll never be one of us," he says "she's right you know." Arya thought she wanted to be No One, but Jaqen helped her see she didn't really want that. Like Pudgey said, he helped her strengthen her resolve to be who herself, while simultaneously training her to be a badass. She STILL serves the Many Faced God as a trained killer...it's all the same to the Many Faced God. Jamie isn't different than he was in the beginning. He had more of a guard up, but he's always been who we see now. We just thought he was "changing" because the perspective of the story telling changed from Ned, to Jamie, to Brianne. He's always wanted to be a good knight, but his reputation was sullied. He sees that in Brianne, that's why he appreciates and respects her. He's a Lannister, they will do anything to get what they want, he's not the exception. He's always loved Cersei...he pushed a child out of a window for her (she didn't ask him to do that). Edmure brokered the surrender of of the castle because he feared what Jamie would do to his family. Edmure knows Jamie pushed a kid out of a window, and also feels like Jamie is a man of no honor, so he believes Jamie. That agreement was to surrender the castle and it's forces, and hand over the Blackfish.
the whole Jaime-Edmure-Blackfish thing relies heavily on subtext so if you just take everything at face value you are likely to get the wrong impression on several things. Jaime: as Edmure kept arguing that he's an awful person who shouldn't live with himself, Jaime relied on that reputation (and perhaps by extension Tywin's) as ruthless and evil, so his threatening Edmure's family has weight. he knows Edmure would believe his threats and uses it to end the siege efficiently without any loss of life (Blackfish's death was on Blackfish himself). Edmure: the Tully words are "Family, Duty, Honor". it's arguable with that in mind, that the most important thing for Tullys is family. the most important thing for Edmure to do is to ensure the continuation of his family and House Tully. believing Jaime's threats to end the House Tully (since there is no other apparent heir, as Blackfish has no family), Edmure agrees to surrender Riverrun in exchange of the survival of House Tully. Blackfish: I have nothing here lmao. imo, same scenario as Barristan - producers trying to cut costs and cast size, simplifying writing, logistics, etc. both characters making stupid "last stand" decisions dying in the same way.
The Blackfish felt compelled by honor, because he ran away during the Red Wedding. He felt that he should've died there, and the only way to make it right was to die fighting the Lannisters, even if it's a pointless death. Also, he *was* quite old and looking for a warrior's death anyway.
@@ArgusStrav "as long as I'm still breathing, the war isn't over" - Blackfish so instead of: a) surrendering to Jaime and perhaps finding a chance to fight another day or... b) escaping with Brienne and try to rally some Tully loyalists to fight for Sansa's cause - he chooses to completely contradict his 'badass' mantra by dying, as you agreed, pointlessly. again, 100% same scenario as Barristan. we could also make the argument that Barristan died fighting because it's compelled by honor. but again, dig deeper and you find that it's an abdication of his own principles and duties, and in the end is just a collateral of the cheapening of ideas in the writer's room.
@@rudy_4ier What do you mean Barristan died fighting because he was compelled by honor? He heard the sounds of fighting, ran in, and then there wasn't an opportunity to escape, if I recall correctly. Or are you saying he should've run away the second he heard fighting while he was still on the street?
@@rudy_4ier Re: the alternatives to dying: you seem to not want to accept the honor argument. Your B option of him literally running away would obviously be dishonorable. I don't get how you think that would be honorable. Your A option is arguably acceptable, but I still think it makes logical sense that he's old and just wants a good death rather than having to surrender to a man he looks down upon, a man who is (in his eyes) the embodiment of dishonor.
@@ArgusStrav you've just ignored the second part of my option b, and made an argument against a strawman. you gonna continue to be dishonest? I'll even copy and paste exactly what I wrote in case you want to try to be dishonest a second time: b) escaping with Brienne and try to rally some Tully loyalists to fight for Sansa's cause it's funny that you're preaching about a character being honorable, dishonorable, yet you're there blatantly misrepresenting my point. what a hypocrite. try again.
Lady Brienne, Heir to the Emerald Isles, King's Guard Champion, Maker of Vows, Breaker of Hounds . . . and the series isn't finished. She probably has the most satisfying arc given her motivations when we meet her, get some back story, see her in action and eventually end the series.
The only thing I can say about feeling disappointed/confused by certain plot points or endings to story arcs is that those instances are only going to increase from here on out.
The books had not been written this far when the show was made. I have never seen a satisfying explanation of Jaqen's motives with regards to Arya. I think it was made ambiguous to keep people talking about the show. The closest people get to explain Jaqen is that he is repaying Arya saving his life in Season 2 with a free training as a Faceless Man. It does not explain the line "finally, a girl is no one", which is only there to justify the reply "a girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell and I'm going home". This line is pure fan service.
@@Luca___00 Not all fanservice. George RR Martin did discuss his plans for the books with the showrunners, so they had a rough idea of where the story was headed.
When you consider that the Faceless Men deal in the currency of death, you'll understand that Arya paid for her training by killing The Waif. I actually thought that was fairly straight forward.
I do like that they left the interpretation of Jaqen's actions at the end open to the viewer. Arya already had the debt repaid, she got two kills and unnamed Jaqen to escape. However, she neatly trapped Jaqen by naming him, and he seemed impressed with her. So recruiting and training her and then pitting Arya against the Waif may be some sort of graduation ceremony. Two students fighting to the death is not uncommon in cults. Arya choosing to go back to Westeros and finish her business there may lead her back to the Many Faced God. Jaqen knows that she will be a right killer unleashed upon those deserving of it, so the Many Faced God will be served time and time again with every death Arya metes out. The House of Black and White is a place for assassins to train. It's not mentioned about what is done with their assassins once training is completed. Do they go back home, as Arya does? Do they create a new life and wait for word from the higher ups at the House for assassination missions? Do they stay at the House and train future students? Don't forget, Arya is part of House Stark. Jaqen may be playing a long game by training her, and if Arya succeeds in her mission to eliminate the enemies of House Stark, then her Stark name will give her access to many high profile targets that would possibly be inaccessible for Faceless Men otherwise. There are many possibilities, but I would not count the House of Black and White to be out of the picture forever in Arya's future.
Sparta: "Jamie screwed that (the siege of Riverrun) up bigtime". - I think you guys rather missed the point; Riverrun _had_ to be taken, it's war and Jamie can't unilaterally end it. But he managed to end the siege with not a drop of blood being shed and without having to take up arms against the Tullys. It's not "screwed", it's actually a big win for Jamie; he got the job done, no-one died and he kept his promise to Brienne. I do understand that by this point pretty much everyone who watched the show had their own agenda, but I always enjoy seeing such agendas crash against the show's own reality. :)
Unfortunately the books are only finished through season 5 of the show, so we can't refer to the books anymore. In the books, they left off with Jon being dead, Danni is riding Drogon above the Dothraki which is a bit different than the show where she is taken by the Dothraki. Aria is still being trained by the faceless men. We are still waiting for "The Winds of Winter" but GRR Martin has not finished it yet. Not sure if he is ever going to finish it given his age.
Jacken(sp?) is Jacken. He didn't die. He may say he is no one, but he clearly has a distinct personality. He can mimic others to such a degree that faceless men claim to be "no one." However, I take it as fantastic hyperbole on their part. He said Arya is finally "noone" as an invitation to join the faceless men as a full fledged member. She had acquired all of the prerequisite skills required. Though, this was just an invitation. Jacken knows and reads people too well to miss how fiercely independent and self aware Arya is. He was not surprised, and I believe more than a little proud, that she returned to her path. I've not read the books just my take.
The faceless man doesn’t push external events. If it’s outside of his mission he accepts what happens. So when Arya finally became nobody and rejected her promotion, he simply accepted it. It’s what was supposed to happen as far as his beliefs go.
It's miles better than him joining the circus and riding a pig - yes, that's what happens in the book. Painfully bad writing and butchering of a character there. This scene is important because it establishes better the characters of Missandei and Grey Worm. Unfortunately what it establishes is how simple of people they are. Tyrion is sizing them up wrt their leadership abilities and they don't pass the test.
IMO Arya's arc was all about realising who she was destined to be. She was completely lost, and driven by rage before and during the faceless initiation. She had the potential to become a powerful weapon, but she was undisciplined. The whole "no one" identity struggle was there to give her the strength, focus, and cunning to face what she had to do as Arya Stark. I think Jaqen always knew that she could never let go of her identity, she just had to realise it for herself.
26:56 What did they do? He just went on a spheel about I’ll launch youre new born baby over the walls I’ll slaughter all the tullys….you telling me you’d just let that happen 😂😂🤣🤣
Nothing special about the High Sparrow, he is after power just like any of the other players in the GoT. His only difference is that his source of power is the fanaticism of his followers, which he attracts through his veneer of piety and poverty.
"The girl is finally no one". The waif was supposed to be no one but she hated Arya and made it personal. She wasn't supposed to do that. It was against the rules. So by dying she finally became no one.
I have to say that I love that they made Cersei not back down. Really pay attention to when she’s says “I choose violence” she means it. The familiar with Jacken is the same faceless person Arya 1st met with each encounter. He knew exactly what he was doing. He needed to train her and throughout the story every time she countered the faceless woman he had snark/face but always sided with Arya. He saw the fight in her when they first met/ like her father did. If you pay attention throughout the story each men that helped Arya the ones that were around fit enough time resemble characteristics her father had. Sansa on the other hand was had women come to her rescue throughout her entire run mostly. All the men she dealt with harmed her in some way.
So the thing with Jaqen and the faceless men is they serve the god of many faces. The god of many faces requires sacrifices and even if Arya isn’t officially a faceless man she will still serve the god of many faces by providing those sacrifices in her revenge. Jaqen knows she will give those sacrifices, that’s why he smiled.
Arya’s arc is confusing because it doesn’t make sense. She’s been training to be “no one” only to be back where she started only with better fighting skills.
I took his reaction to mean that J'aqen wanted Arya to be a Faceless Man, but he likes her enough to respect that she not only survived the Waif's attempt to kill her but finally made up her mind and made a decision and she's going back to Westeros to go on a murder rampage with the skills he taught her. Maybe he'll get in trouble with a higher ranking Faceless Man for letting her go, maybe there are no higher ranking Faceless Men, maybe their rules allow him to make that call. Who knows?
It's normal to feel a bit let down by off camera fights & deaths but that's also what prevents the main course from getting cheapened. Not blowing the load early or repetitively was the key ingredient that made the big moments of this show so iconic imo. Having Arya cut out the candle makes for a much better suspense scene than another generic sword fight. They could've easily given the Blackfish a heroic sendoff like every other show would've done...and his fight scene would've meant nothing after the next fight. The last words to Brienne meant more. Yes Asoiaf Blackfish is legendary but he was never more than a side character in the show. You can't highlight all ten thousand book characters. A battle weary Blackfish opting to lay down arms at his ancestral home instead of jumping on a wild goose chase on the other side of the continent makes sense. What the Tully troops did was very much in line with history too. An oath to his liege lord took precedence in all decisions for an *honorable* knight. Honor...which brings us to Brienne & Jaime. This episode is theirs, the fighting at Riverrun is just the backdrop. Yet this obvious fact seem incomprehensible to the freefolk types. It would've been impractical to waste a season on a plot as complicated as the Siege of Riverrun. So why not incorporate it within the broader Jaime arc? The story of two star crossed lovers stuck on opposite sides of loyalty is shown phenomenally here. This is a great emotion driven episode. The blowout we'll get.
Jaghen... smiles at the end, I'd like to think..because the debt was paid. And the God of death has a tremendous asset, and ARYA IS now an exceptional killer 😊
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Like Theon was broke and became Reek and Reek became the alias Theon. Arya was broke and became no one from no one she became Arya Stark.
@@incogspectator3042I never noticed that corrolation, very interesting 🤔 did theon die in the end by the way? You can put a spoiler warning in your answer. I can't remember because I haven't watched the full game of thrones in a long while. I think I rewatched it three or four times when it ended lol, but that was years ago.
He surrendered the castle because Jamie told him he would launch his baby into the castle with a catapult if he didn’t.
Honestly, you believe everything everyone says in the show and you must know y now that you just can’t do that. Jamie made that threat to get him to relent so Jamie wouldn’t have to slaughter everyone. He did what Browne asked.
When Margaery visits her brother Loras in his cell to encourage him to be strong, is instead shocked to find a broken, severely tortured man. Loras compels her to make it stop. This moment Margaery begins her plan of their escape through playing the Sparrow’s game. Everything she is doing is for the love of her brother Loras and her desire to save him.
Margaery is the best
Jaime's reaction after finding out Blackfish is dead is very important. Especially after speaking with Edmure, it shows he's not going to sleep tonight. The series don't show us Jaime's POV and his thoughts as much but his whole life is struggling with the concept of honour (also the name of his white horse). Blackfish is someone he respected a lot. Renowned as one of the greatest battle commanders in Westeros, Jaime looked up to him. It was Blackfish who led Tully and Stark forces in the battle of the Whispering Woods, so he basically captured Jaime and took him from Cersei for years, but Jaime still respected him. He only met him 2-3 times but Jaime was desperate for his respect. He felt the same way about other people like Barristan Selmy and Arthur Dayne, not so much about Tywin because he never wanted to be like him. Hearing that Blackfish died an honourable death only reminded him of who he is. Edmure hit the nail on the head when they spoke, and he understood that in that moment. To me, Jaime is an absolute masterpiece of a character by GRRM, and Nikolaj does a wonderful job portraying him with the limited material.
I concur. Well said.
Shame they ruined him later.
Great comment. The Blackfish is definitely one of Jaime's personal heroes. There is just one thing I think you might be wrong about. I don't think they ever met before, which is why Jaime is eager to finally meet the hero he lionized for so long. Am I wrong?
Exactly.
@@Pelagion98 Only to fools who never understood him in the first place.
You were surprised when Edmure gave up so easily & ordered his men to lay down their weapons & leave the castle , but remember earlier Jamie threatened Edmure that he would catapult his baby into the river & would do whatever it takes in order to get back to Cersei. After hearing that Edmure decided to completely submit to Jamie's demands which is understandable but also horrifying & disturbing.
Exactly. Edmure surrendered the castle -- and the entire Tully army. In effect, he has become a vassal of the Lannisters. I am not sure why Spartan and Pudgey did not understand that. Edmure capitulated to save his family -- it was all he had left. But he is not an independent agent now. The Lannisters could put the entire Tully garrison in irons or even put them to the sword. Edmure has no power to stop them.
@@johnalden5821 they didn't catch on it because they were talking over that Scene were he said that 😂
....and that's the reason Jaime made the threat. He knew what kind of person Edmuire thought he was, and he played up to it. He resolved the conflict with virtually no violence. He did the right thing, and was seen as dishonourable for it. That's kind of his character's whole theme and motivation.
And it's important to remember that Lord Edmure does not know the Jamie that Brienne does. To Edmure, Ser Jamie Lannister is the Kingslayer, so he has no trouble believing his terrible threats.
That’s where reaction videos annoy me sometimes. People miss important dialogue trying to act up for the reaction. Should stop, chat and then start again
It's the 'Brotherhood WITHOUT Banners', the idea is that they fight for justice for everyone, especially for the poor, not just for the interests of one Family or another. In a society where eveyone is affiliated with some family's sigil, the people with Beric and Thoros have renounced to alll Banners and fight for the ones suffering because of the wars fought among the big lords.
Pudgy is right, Cercei didn't back down there, she was just saying there was a promise made to her, which they then denied.
Yeah, Cersei said one of the most epic lines "I choose violence". Spartan's takes either hit or miss hard
@@estebanroque504 😂 I have noticed that too...he's either dead on or so far out of the park it's another sport. Props to him for putting it himself out there though. Takes guts to do it.
100 percent.
Correct but you dont understand what Spartan was saying. Cersei backed down for a second during their conversation, not during the overall altercation.
I'm pretty sure he meant that she became defensive, because she definitely didn't back down about going to the Sept.
Jaimie threatened Edmure that he would launch his baby son over the walls of the castle and slaughter everyone in the castle unless he went in there as its Lord and told the army to stand down and give the castle to the Frey forces.
Jaimie is trying to do this as Brienne asked to take the castle without bloodshed, while still achieving his goal.
Brienne had to get out of there as everyone will be prisoners once the castle is taken.
Jacqen is proud of Arya. He likes her. He knows that she will give names to the faceless God, whether she is there with him or if she leaves. Their God got his name since rhe waif died.
He trained Arya so now she can look after herself. It's much better than when she came to him.
And why did he say to the girl she should kill arya? Sorry, but that doesn't make sense
@Karim Abidi Because that girl was also being tested. Winner got to be "no one" loser is a face on the wall.
@@knowmoremutants the girl doesn't make sense in the show. She is ALREADY no one, so she doesn't need to be tested AND she is envy and angry but she shouldn't be like that because she's no one and no one doesn't care for sh** like that
@Karim Abidi No she is an acolyte, just one further along than Arya.
@@karimabidi8312 part of Arya's test!
Appreciate the intelligence of Jaime lannister he took the castle without fight because he knew lord edmure was always afraid and he afraid him more .
These guys liked Jaime early on but they so completely jumped off his bandwagon that they don't get how great a move that was.
With the way Spartan keeps down talking Cersei, I can’t wait to see their reaction to the season finale.
Same, he's gonna be proven so wrong
expect him to say something along the lines of her being a tyrant and not finding any other way to solve the issue
yea but the "high sparrow" is a saint in his eyes lol.. hes just another extremist. im glad Cersei blew them all up
@@ducksauce9187 If you think Cersei isn't an "extremist" your brain isn't properly functioning.
This is a soft spoiler btw
Your guys interpretation of Aryas arc is right on point. She would never lose her Stark heritage as the waif said "She'll never be one of us." To be no one you serve with no regard for self or judge you just kill. The Faceless Men are a mysterious religion that worships death so long as someone dies the debt is paid. Never underestimate Cersei.
"Arc"
But that can't be the way of the Faceless Men if they could just kill anyone why even bother going on "missions". Besides when she had to kill the Thin Man she went after Meryn Trant and killed him instead but that was a problem to Jaqen so that whole "as long as someone dies the debt is paid" doesn't really hold water imo. We do not know much about the Faceless Men but what we do know doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
@@PohiI mean, as much sense as what got Arya into Jaquen's gold graces to begin with. Arya saved him and Rorge and Biter from captivity and, as a "reward" for sparing 3 names from the one true god, Jaquen offered his services to send 3 names in exchange that Arya named (with him phrasing it as meeting the quota of lives that should have ended that she saved).
Yet when she names him to force his hand, he tries to bargain with her to make her change his mind and "un-name" him and he eventually gives her the coin, changes his face, and fucks off...not even mentioning that we have no clue (beyond fan theories) why the hell a faceless man is just chilling in a caravan going North from King's Landing. So Jaquen was in the area to fulfill a contract, we don't know who for, but still flippantly makes a deal with this little girl who rescued him and two others to fulfill marks just because she saved them from dying? Or the fact that he managed to be captured at all and I guess was seemingly resigned to death because he includes himself as one of the names Arya taken from the Many Faced God and would have just allowed himself to die or only kill one person to meet the quota for himself then escape but then also had to bargain with Arya to name someone other than Jaquen and then didn't actually take a third name iirc? The Faceless Men have been very wonky and all over the place since the beginning, not just here. And that's not even talking about their origins in Valyria and the group taking vague credit for the end of the Dragonlords...aka the Doom of Valyria.
@@Mrryn I'm not sure, if I understood all of that you wrote, but the Faceless Men are just people, in the books that's pretty clear in Arya's training, they're not ninjas or god like, they're good at planning and killing, they can be capture and kill, but they're like religious fundamentalist with the dead thing
@@TheRubenMarwell, yes and no. Jaqen killed Pate with what seemed like sorcery.
If you think about it, Jaime threatening Edmure that way was calculated. He avoided a battle by making Edmure think he’s just as bad as everyone says.
Jamie hasn't changed ..only your perspective of him has...this is the brilliance of this show
No. That is not the case at all lmao.
He hasn't changed a lot in the show, that's true, but he changed. In the books he really became an other man after losing his hand
@@TheReDeeMeR1988 I mention the books because the show is an adaptation and because the books have consequences, the show loses that. We have clever characters in the show who make dumb decisions, we have characters who change and then they aren't changed, we have people who should be loyal (for example the northmen) but then they don't want to revenge their deaths. The show is different and that's ok, but its not ok when the story or characters become trash because of the changes
Been telling them all along, they still think he is on some kind of redemtion arc and it's Cersei that doesn't allow him to go there or whatever, and changes him back
Jaime Lannister is just Jaime Lannister, always has been, we just met him when he pushed kid out of window because of incest, then we learned other facts about him, like killing the Mad King, and we somehow think he changes (literally re-telling what happened 17 years ago with him, that's not change)
@@TheReDeeMeR1988 what a brain dead response, nearly all tv shows stories come from books go troll somewhere else.
19:09 One thing you can't ignore is that no one can play Cersie Lannister better than Lena Headay even her walk is so much in character that even when she is down/beaten you still want her to suffer
One of my favorite actors
The blackfish was one of Jaimie’s Heroes since he was a little boy before he joined the kings guard
My interpretation of Jaqen H'ghar's reaction at the end is that what he really wanted to test is Arya's ability to stay herself in spite of all their attempts to destroy her identity. The many-faced god represents death, and you have to fight against him in order to stay yourself, not to sink into oblivion.
When Daenerys showed up, The look on her face was like that of a parent who comes home early just to find the kids threw a party that has gone out of control.
Next two episodes are not only the best of the season, they’re part of the top 10 of the show!
Remember when nobody was safe on this show? Now we have Arya getting stabbed multiple times in the gut, thrown into sewerage water, and then somehow being completely healed by some soup and a good night’s rest. Then the next day she is expertly parkouring through the streets like nothing happened.
Goes to show just how laughable the writing became when they ran out of book material.
No one is safe, and Arya is no one. 😅 Also, Arya in the books will be safe until the end because that's the deal GRRM made to his wife whose favorite character is Arya. Unless he managed to wiggle through a loophole in that deal and kill her in the end.
But i get you, and i share your frustration, GRRM wouldn't write something as stupid as what Arya had gone through shown in the tv series. 😂
We have dragons in this show. Its called sci-fi😆
Right, Ned was hospitalized, sick, and were then limping for several episodes when he got a spear through his leg.
She wasn't completely healed. She had milk of the poppy to help the pain.
@@ceazer5963 First of all it's called fantasy, not sci-fi. And just because a fantasy story has dragons in it, it doesn't mean that all arguments for logic, realism, and consistency should be dismissed.
Oh man, when Spartan said he thought of something important I was, oh wow, did he decipher the Tower of Joy scene? Oh well, nevermind 😂
Me too.
Hahaha same.. Actually I thought by having seen HOTD first with the "Prince that was promised" storyline they would have catch it before. But it looks like they have no clue
@@NilofarCODsoft spoiler
I genuinely don't know if I would have realized Brienne and Jaime were on a collision course here if I hadn't already read it in the books. Good catch, Spartan, credit where credit is due.
Really? Riverrun / The Blackfish were mentioned multiple times during both stories. We knew both were headed there.
Love your profile photo 🔥
17:47 The idea that the Blackfish wouldn't care about helping Sansa is ludicrous. In the books, he thinks all of Cat's children are dead, so he is hoping to fight for Robin Arryn, his last remaining grandnephew, and since Robb was king of the Trident, the heir to the Riverlands.
he chooses to pointlessly die for the sake of an old castle that hasnt been his home for decades rather than help his own family that's desperately asking for his help, so dumb
In the book, he escapes the castle by swimming down the river. He'll turn up again sometime.
In the show, they just wanted to dispose of a character for whom they had no further use.
@@Leo_ofRedKeep Yeah, I know. It's disappointing.
@@Leo_ofRedKeep Shame, he's a cool character and the actor was amazing
Initially, I found the plot of "The Faceless Man" somewhat perplexing, but upon deeper analysis, it began to unravel and make more sense to me. It seems that in order for Arya to become a faceless man, she had to first master her own identity. When Jaqen broke and blinded her, it was as if he granted her the ability to truly see herself. It was a transformative experience that required her to embrace her true nature and understand her own character. Now, Arya is a faceless man embodying the persona of Arya Stark completely, for she has gained a profound awareness of her own identity and is able to play herself perfectly. Jaqen is happy as he sees that she has mastered her fist face witch is Arya Stark, this will aid her in assuming other faces and being able to inbody other characters in the future.
Spartan you like the High Sparrow because of how he treated Cersei. But he also imprisoned Margaery and Loras without any good reason. He's a pretentious asshole who uses fanatics under him to wield his power. He doesn't need to be bought because he got power the other way around. Imo he's just as power hungry as the rest of them lords.
@Pohi : true. He is a liar! He spread a few truths - he is power hungry as the rest. He is hypocritical. 🤮
The High Sparrow is literally a homophobe and sexist who's using his religion and power to torture innocent people. Still, they somehow find a way of saying Cersei is wrong in this (?) Man, I spent the whole season ROOTING for Cersei to kill them all haha
40:29 You do realize that that wasn't really Tommen's decisions right? That he is bacially the High Septon's puppet now. And the High Septon essentially coerced Margaery into converting Tommen.
Really surprised by Spartan that he liked that decision and especially when Tyrion had used trial by combat twice already. I'd understand if they just removed possibility of using champions but removing the whole concept is whack.
@@Pohi Also, by law, the Queen wether its Margaery or Cersei, can only have a knight of the King's Guard as her champion in a trial by combat. Nobody else. In the books, Lora is not in KL, and he's wounded. Jaime is in the Riverlands, so she can't name him either.
It's too bad that the show didn't make it a point to show who all the knights of the King's Guards are. Because originally, Cersei can't have the Mountain as her champion because he's not a member.
But after the Arys Oakheart get killed in Dorne protecting Myrcella, that's when Cersei see an opening to have The Mountain in the King's Guard so he can be her champion.
In the books this was Jaime acting up to Edmures expectations of him being this evil villain. Jaime wouldn't kill a baby with no purpose to it, the threat though ends the siege. It was a smart play playing on peoples expectations of him.
Remember the first season he always allowed others to think of him as their predisposed perceptions were an never corrected them.
Layer of self defense I guess? Made into a useful tool here
Even on the show, I got it that this is what Jaime was doing. It's a brilliant strategy! I don't understand why they didn't get it.
Jamie wouldn't launch a baby with a catapult?? 😅😅How much blood has Jamie shed in the name of house Lannister? In the name of cersei? His redemption arc is a myth
@@82joon He would not even have done it in season 1. It's not because he pushed Bran that he would be willing to throw a baby on a castle! lol please check your brain. He didn't stab the Mad King for joy, he didn't it to avoid a catastrophe. Secondly, Jaime has changed a lot. Just in his personaly itself. He is completely different and it would be lying to yourself to think that. He is not the cocky lead rooster of the barn.
@Johnny Skinwalker Who else validates Jamie's mad king "burn them all" narrative ?..has it ever occured to you that Jamie's side of the story helps him sleep a little better at night after seeing how the consequences of his decision would haunt his future ? What about strangling his cousin to death while imprisoned by the north ? I don't get u fans' Jamie delusion
That scene with Brienne returning Oathkeeper, there's pure magic in their chemistry. When she looks at him painfully, hesitates for a second as it seems like her stoic disposition is about to break, but then she abruptly turns her head and walks out of the camp...that part hits me in the feels everytime. It's a tragedy that's fated to be. Those who look at these things as filler on some "let's get to the fighting" shit, I genuinely feel we were watching the show for different reasons.
Cersei was not backing down!!! Shes the biggest gangster on the show💯
Absolutely!
Literally, their under appreciation of her is annoying
Big facts
Its annoying how they downplay her
@@skurinski ya idk how they don't like or at least appreciate her character and how good she is at playing " the game of thrones"..They always shit on Cersei but the same 2 ppl both had Little Finger on their like list at 1 point because how clever and good he was at "playing the game"..makes no sense
I do think Jamie was playing up the mean-guy bravado to Edmure. Especially as Edmure lead with telling Jamie how awful he is.
Perhaps but Jaime did push a child out a window to protect Cersei so i wouldn't be surprised if it was an empty threat but i also wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't. That's what makes/made Jaime such a great character arguably the second best one in the show.
@@BhBc8f8 may I ask, who’s the first?
@@BhBc8f8the best you mean
@@NiKiMa023 i would say LF imo. Every time the guy is on screen, it feels like everyone suddenly sits properly and increases the volume even though they have subtitles on, and then make 50 different interpretations of why he used a fullstop and not a comma and what does it mean when his 4th blink is a little faster than his 2nd one.
@@BhBc8f8 interesting! He’s so integral to the show. The story is impossible without him
I like Pudgey's interpretation of Arya's story line. The more they tried to get her to abandon her true self, the more Arya rebelled against them. Basically, everything she had experienced since season 1 was conspiring and acting to tear her down. First she had to pretend to be "Arry," then she was Tywin Lannister's servant, and then she was told directly to be "no one." Finally, she gained the strength to fight for her own identity. All of the childhood innocence has now been completely burned away. But in its place, she has been empowered to truly be who she is destined to be.
Lol what strength she literally beat someone who was at a complete disadvantage, there was no training except 5 mins with a staff
Remember what Jaquen said when they first met, You stole a life from the Red God,you must give it back.. So when she refused to kill the actress, a life was still needed...So Jaquen sent the other girl to claim Arya. or if Arya was the more skilled either way the Red God is satisified. And He then said finally she is No One... but she said no i am Arya Stark.. so you can take that two ways.. She is back to being Arya.. or she is No One merely in the role of Arya Stark who knows her background and her list.
The waif killed the actress anyway so your first point is invalid. Jaqen let Arya go because the plot demanded it. It didn’t make sense.
@@littlemcguire15 yea but it was arya's chance to pay the debt not waif's
@@littlemcguire15 well that in itself could flip it on the waif,as the waif was sanctioned only to Kill Arya. not the actress.. so then she stole from the Red God.. and in doing that...Did that action mean Arya shouldnt die.. hence her victory..???
40:40 Idk what Spartan would consider Cersei “doing something on her own” is. When little finger or Tywin had other people do things, it’s considered “clever” but when Cersei does, it’s highlighted that it’s not Cersei physically involved.
Yeah he never responds rationally to hrr character. Like the way he defended Stannis. At least Cersei never burned one of her kids alive
Cersie is a spoilt brat who abuses power she didn't earn. Tywin and Littlefinger earnt their way to where they are so they have more credibility. still there's room to consider your points, she does get her victories in the current timeline in a similar manner. I just dont like Cersie 😂
@@SpartanandPudgey not a fan of Cersei either, just saying that she makes use of the tools available to her with the skills she was raised with from Tywin’s upbringing and that it’s not really realistic to expect her to be leading an army with fighting skills. I bet if she had shown any interest in fighting as a child like Arya did, Tywin would have been very dismissive instead of how Ned was encouraging. So she never had that opportunity afforded to her. She even talks about how annoyed she felt with her and Jamie being raised so differently because he’s a man and she’s a woman. So she tries to make the use of the skillset she was raised with. She’s still awful. Just don’t think criticizing her for not being like Stannis leading physically is really warranted
@@SpartanandPudgeyHow did Cersei not earn her power? The Mountain is here because she instructed Qyburn to save him and offered him whatever he needed, and she has Qyburn on her side because she saw the potential in him and recruited him. These are all power points she earned.
I’m so glad they’re liking Seasons 5-6. I think the quality of the shows was sustained beginning to end. Enjoying watching this with y’all. Love from Texas, USA.
For Arya, I didn’t like the fact that anyone receiving those types of stabs to the stomach would die (during those times). Any perforation of the intestines or bowels you would go septic. However, I thought they could get around it by Lady Crane saying as she stabbed former lovers then patched them up she used some magical healing drops she discovered from the far end of the world where they toured and these would help heal Arya faster. If we have dragons, Melisandre, and people that come back to life surely we can have some magical healing drops?
A Pudgey is No One
She’s “Nerrrrrr One” 😁😂💁🏼♂️
@@markquinlin5678 naur one
When Jaime says 'It's yours. It'll always be yours', I legit got sentimental just thinking what a long journey these two characters have had. A really compelling scene between the two hopeless romantics. If this was any other show they would be making out in that tent, you know that. Well they would've made out long before this, in that bath, back in Season 3. And yet, that look of pure sadness they gave each other said more than a thousand make out scenes could've ever expressed. There's something refreshingly organic to this emotion here that's often missing elsewhere. Probably just for how agonizing the build has been. Btw Jaime taking Riverrun with Rains of Castamere playing in the back is my type of aesthetic. Tywin's probably somewhere looking up, finally proud of his son.
When Spartan said ‘ yeah, hound have your way’ then heads start flying off shoulders 🤣🤣🤣
Aria is brilliant.
She set up that stand-off with Waif. Getting stabbed wasn’t part of the plan but running through the city with Waif following her was the real plan. She knew she was gonna be hunted, and she knew who would come after her. It’s why she didn’t have Needle on her. Didn’t it seem strange that despite knowing the dangerous people looking for her, she didn’t have her best weapon on her?
She left a blood trail on purpose. So that she would be followed into that dark room. Why else would she leave Needle there? She left it where she knew she was gonna need it.
She knew that is how she will beat her, by forcing Waif to fight blind, something that Aria learned how to do.
There was no need to see the fight. Once the candle went out, that fight was over.
And the writers are awful, Waif (a faceless man) a master assassin. Just decides to run and chase her? This whole arc is so poorly written. Hyped when I first watched it but rewatching it, it makes no sense.
I suppose you can read the writers' minds? lol
_Meh,_ the Arya scenes here are just stupid. She would be lucky to survive this kind of trauma with 21st century medical care. And then there is a year, or more probably two, of reconvalescence. Instead, she runs and jumps off walls as though she only had some bruises, 12 hours after the injury. It's just plain stupid.
So basically, after all these injuries in her belly Arya was healed by some magic soup. While common people would probably be dead, Arya instead runs from Waif so fast, that any special agent or marine these days would feel ashamed of himself. Don't forget jumping from the balcony, falling on the street, etc. An improved version of James Bond, that's for sure.
When people say it only stops making sense on season 8 I remember this, she is Wolverine
At this point I want Cersei to win just to see Spartan pissed off 😆
Show Cersei was a deeply flawed human, who got dealt a pretty shit hand in life all things considered and still snagged victories for herself here and there (often to the detriment of everyone else).
Cersei in the books is an irredeemable unhinged monster.
@@bradcarver8127 She is a complicated character. After she said give the food to the dog's and not the poor at the wedding was the last straw for me.
@@bradcarver8127 shut up dont spoil anything
@@bradcarver8127 not really...I respect her for being such a G!!
Exactly! He's just SOOO salty about her he's inventing stuff like "she backed down in the conversation", never recognizes when she does something good, and so on.... Pretty grating.
I feel that the faceless men are using her to help fight the undead. The central tenet of the faceless men is that “all men die” and the undead challenge that notion.
Pudgey went full Hermione on the Dracarys pronunciation
Edmure gave up the castle because Jaime threatened to kill his son
That seemed obvious... Guess not...
@@havok6280 maybe because the baby was not shown and only mentioned in dialogue it slipped their mind. Especially when in the moment they are getting frustrated with Jaime's loyalty to Cersei, someone who is beyond awful and treats him like shit
If you remember Jamie just threatened to kill Edmure's infant son if he didn't go in and get the castle to surrender. That's why he "turned". It's not weird when you think of it like that.
“This whole arc is so ambitious man” (or…uhh…bad)
"I'm going home" , I always get teary at that part.
25:17 The Riverrun soldiers are not dumb. They know it's likely a trap, but honor and loyalty compels them to open the gates, because legally Edmure is the Lord of Riverrun, not the Blackfish.
Well he is legally the head of the Tullys, but he is not the legal ruler of Riverrun. Legally the castle belongs to Walder Fray, but Blackfish is the current ruler by right of conquest. Edmure does not really have any claim to Riverrun as of right now. The solodiers are however honourbound to obey Edmure as they are Tully soldiers and he is their rightfull ruler.
@@rahilrameez8635 That's fair. I'm guessing you think they shouldn't have opened the gate, which is totally valid. The question then becomes, do you think Jaime would have followed through on his threat? Would he have killed Edmure and his son?
and fear, they don't really want to die in a siege
@@Mic-Mak well he makes a point to tell the Frey idiots to never make a threat you won't follow through on. So I guess he really would have killed Edmure if it came to that.
@@whateverreally1347 Good point, but the truth is, we don't know. In the books, it is very clear that Jaime is on somewhat of a mini redemption arc, and it's therefore very unclear if he would actually do it. However, when he threatens Edmure in the books, there is a witness, and that witness is likely to cause trouble for Jaime.
Even if Jaime never had decide on whether or not he'd kill Edumure and his son, the simple fact that he threatened him in front of a witness is going to cause him trouble. He promised to Lady Catelyn that he would never harm Stark or Tully again, but threatening them could still be seen as doing just that, because we have no proof that he wouldn't follow with his threat.
Can someone compliment the composer of soundtrack , he's brilliant .without the right soundtrack , scenes would not have same impact . great job.
Episode 6x10 is approaching. The best one I think :D
I fully agree. Masterpiece.
Dude. Please be quiet.
@@thesean3194 ? They already watched it and I dont spoil anything ;)
@@rickweijers500 The best experiences are when you know nothing and organically enjoy how the story evolves and plays out.
@@thesean3194 hmm. Even if that is true: all of us have already seen it. And our lovely couple as well ;)
The Waif had gotten the best of Arya over and over again and there's no reason to believe this time would've been any different. Except in the only situation where she had an advantage over The Waif...in blindness. A skill that she had acquired specifically because she refused to let go of her human emotions. That moment of her slicing out the candle with Needle was pretty badass. One more typical headchopping sequence wouldn't have done anything for her character. The Mountain already had that covered. The way this was done, bringing it full circle to the blind training and leaving the rest to imagination, was much more inventive and made for an awesome climax.
The reason Jaqen is pleased with Aria goes back to a side comment earlier in the series that most people missed or didn't give any weight to. The Waif says (about Aria), "She'll never be a Faceless Man" and Jaqer responds "No. Perhaps she will become something else." (not sure if exact but this is the base of his answer).
40:30 Cersei is undoubtedly a bad leader, but I reject the general idea that a leader who doesn't physically fight is automatically a bad leader. There are a lot of good leaders who are not fighters. All that being said, a leader should have an appreciation for the risk he is asking his followers to take, and Cersei definitely doesn't have that.
He(jaqen) was proud of her. You can see the proud look on his FACE as She Leaves as his sword of vengeance on the world... he realizes he cant conyrol her, but shes his most promising student, so hes fine with arya being unleashed on westeros.
So the dude that gets a finger in his bum is from my city Ottawa Ontario Canada. He was invited to appear on the show because the producers saw his TH-cam video doing GoT impressions and loved it. His name is Steve Love and he was my Uber driver once.
In the books The Blackfish is a legendary fighter and Jamie knew of his exploits and admired him. Their interaction was great and the actor who played him was perfect.
Shame they didnt even show his death, I would love to see him fight
Can't wait for your reaction for next episode. And the epic S6 finale!!
Hey crew! About that confusing end scene in the House of Black and White. Here's a perspective.
Arya completed the training. The Old Gods put a lot of faith in the concept of Trial by Combat. If the Faceless God had not wanted Arya as one of their Servants, they would have let the Waif kill Arya, but the opposite happened, so of course, Arya has proven her favor in the eyes of her God.
Arya passes her trial by combat, returns the Waif's face to the House of Black and White, and the High Priest there, Jacqen, declares in the temple that Arya's training is complete. She's a jedi like her father. "Finally a girl is no one."
Arya, as a newly graduated Faceless Man, stands in the House of Black and White, among every Face the Faceless have accumulated for their use, and declares as her first statement as a priestess, what her mission is going to be, and where she's going to go. "A girl is Arya Stark, of Winterfell, and I'm going home."
She's not disobeying him. She's telling him that the Faceless God is sending No One to resume the life of Arya Stark in Westeros to serve the God's purposes in whatever the hell is afoot in Westeros. And he knows she is perfect for the role, but he also knows she was able to overcome the emotional ties to her old identity to leave her cold enough and ruthless enough to do whatever the Faceless God might require. She's a jedi now. Go dance faces with the blessings of Mother Temple, No One of the House of Black and White, and send the Faceless God their tribute in lives spilled.
If Arya had been quitting or disobeying or denying the Game of Identities (which never ends) she wouldn't have used such a precise sentence structure. She starts agreeing she is No One, because when she speaks, she uses the third person. "A girl is Arya Stark". And after she declares the Face that she is now wearing and the identity that she is going to use, "A girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell." She then switches and assumes that identity again fully, and flips to the first person, "And I'm going home." If she were disobeying or rebelling against Jacqen, the line woud have been "- I - am Arya Stark of Winterfell, and I'm going home." But "A Girl" is Arya Stark, so she's promising to stay true at heart to the training of the Faceless Men. She is now one of them forever.
Yeah I agree, Arya's wording indicates her allegiance.
But "no one" is not supposed to choose her task and Jaqen hasn't been able to give her one since this is apparently the first time they speak again after she left for the theatre.
@@Leo_ofRedKeep Not so. When Jacqen tries to recruit Arya in S2, he tempts her with "A girl has many names on her list ... She can offer them up to the Manyfaced god."
Yes, exactly! I wrote something similar in a separate comment:
"Jaqen smiles when Arya says "a girl is arya, and I'm going home," and he lets her go. Because from his point of view, he has succeeded in training a perfect assassin. And like he says to her when first offering to train her, he knows that she will offer MANY names to the many-faced god, one by one. And so it doesn't matter if she really is or isn't Arya Stark. She's going to Westeros to deal a bunch of death, and to Jaqen, it doesn't matter is she's doing it as an assignment, or to just be a free-roaming faceless man, dealing out justice.
It's super ambiguous, and I think it's the perfect setup for whatever's next in Arya's story."
wow that's really insightful Adam, thanks for clarifying that. very interesting subtle writing that makes these interactions so much deeper than at first glance
Great banter as always! Regarding Arya, The House of Black and White stuff in the books was going in a different direction. As for Riverrun, Jaime told Edmure he'd launch his infant son out of a catapult in one of the most chilling monologues of the series. I think that, on top of the Black Fish callously disregarding his imprisonment for years during the siege gave Edmure a pretty logical reason to hand over the Castle, as foolish or sudden as the change of heart may have seemed for house Tully.
Almost like instead of experiencing that total death of the ego, losing herself and becoming no one, Arya was able to find herself - and we know a warrior is her true self, as she never wanted to "be a lady".
The High Sparrow hasn't stripped His power. He got His power through His religion. He says it's the will of the Gods what he does. But actually he does what He wants to do and hides His hunger for Power behind his religion.
Spartan being brainwashed by fictional fanatics just because of the hate he has for fictional character Cersei is honestly the best thing ever
We are now just 1 episode away from it. What is 'it' you ask?
'It' is only the best hour ever put on a screen in the history of all screens. Episode 10 "The Winds of Winter" will NEVER be topped by any movie, show, production, commercial....ANYTHING. Every single second of the episode is sheer perfection. PERFECTION.
💯😍
The waif chasing Arya was a huge meme when the episode released, shit was everywhere. :D
Jaime in the books is so much more rich and "noble". The books are written as Point of Views so you spend alot of time inside character's thoughts. Jaime spends alot of time figuring out how to end the Tully rebellion while still honoring his vow to Catelyn not to ever take up arms against the Tully's. He's extremely clever and somewhat vicious "on the surface" but it's all in service to avoid actual bloodshed. Also, again...at least in the books, at this point, Jaime is done with Cersei. She sends a raven asking him for help but he doesn't even read it...he throws it into the fire.
the shows' writers are big Lena Heady simp so they kept Jaime like that. But I don't understand how even watching this scene with Edmure on the show, people don't realise Jaime is doing this as a strategy.
@@johnnyskinwalker4095 they in general are lannister simps so anything tyrion/jaime does good that betrays that they don't like
@@nightfrost1891 they don't like Cersei and they pretty much turned on Jaime, they are not Lannister simps
Daenerys may be the mother of dragons but Cersei "I choose violence" Lannister was the mother of a thousand memes 😂😂😂. Also Tyrion breaking fourth wall with that "most famous dwarf in the world" quip 😂
That’s why Ian McShane’s short arc is so nice for perspective. He’s in the same position as the high sparrow and says “violence is a disease. can’t get rid of it by spreading it”
“What did they do to turn him so much?” I don’t know.. maybe threatening to launch his baby into the castle with a catapult had something to do with it. Also I think Jaime just said all of that to end the conflict with as little violence as possible. He clearly doesn’t mind being seen as the villain when he knows he’s doing what he thinks is right.
I don't know if these guys read the talkbacks but here we go: You didn't seem to get what Jaime was trying to do. He tried to reason with Edmure but Edmure would not have it, he kept seeing Jaime as a monster. So Jaime used the perception Edmure had in him to scare him into giving up the castle(talking about killing the Tullys and his wife and kid). And it worked! It was a genius powerplay by Jaime. Whatever side he is in, you should be proud of him. Spartan keep loving people that do good battle strategies, that was an epic one.
Prepare yourselves for the next episode. It's one of the best ever in TV shows history....
I would say that about the next two episodes😊
@@sandimcalisterblood2675 Agree. Spartan even said that about the Battle of the Bastards "this is probably the best battle in tv shows i ever saw". It's that good!
Blackfish dying off screen in the show with only the line “he died fighting” when he’s still alive in the books after escaping to continue the fight still pisses me off
Pudgey: That means I'm YOUR QUEEN
Me: You are my queen
Agree with Pudgy on the fanatics in King’s landing. He is power hungry and how to get power? Take it away from those who have it.
Jaqen always knew Arya would never be a faceless man...he said so a few times. Like when the Waif said, "you'll never be one of us," he says "she's right you know." Arya thought she wanted to be No One, but Jaqen helped her see she didn't really want that. Like Pudgey said, he helped her strengthen her resolve to be who herself, while simultaneously training her to be a badass. She STILL serves the Many Faced God as a trained killer...it's all the same to the Many Faced God.
Jamie isn't different than he was in the beginning. He had more of a guard up, but he's always been who we see now. We just thought he was "changing" because the perspective of the story telling changed from Ned, to Jamie, to Brianne. He's always wanted to be a good knight, but his reputation was sullied. He sees that in Brianne, that's why he appreciates and respects her. He's a Lannister, they will do anything to get what they want, he's not the exception. He's always loved Cersei...he pushed a child out of a window for her (she didn't ask him to do that).
Edmure brokered the surrender of of the castle because he feared what Jamie would do to his family. Edmure knows Jamie pushed a kid out of a window, and also feels like Jamie is a man of no honor, so he believes Jamie. That agreement was to surrender the castle and it's forces, and hand over the Blackfish.
Lmao Sparto continually being convinced that the Sparrow isn’t looking for power and is fighting for the poor is still funny
the whole Jaime-Edmure-Blackfish thing relies heavily on subtext so if you just take everything at face value you are likely to get the wrong impression on several things.
Jaime: as Edmure kept arguing that he's an awful person who shouldn't live with himself, Jaime relied on that reputation (and perhaps by extension Tywin's) as ruthless and evil, so his threatening Edmure's family has weight. he knows Edmure would believe his threats and uses it to end the siege efficiently without any loss of life (Blackfish's death was on Blackfish himself).
Edmure: the Tully words are "Family, Duty, Honor". it's arguable with that in mind, that the most important thing for Tullys is family. the most important thing for Edmure to do is to ensure the continuation of his family and House Tully. believing Jaime's threats to end the House Tully (since there is no other apparent heir, as Blackfish has no family), Edmure agrees to surrender Riverrun in exchange of the survival of House Tully.
Blackfish: I have nothing here lmao. imo, same scenario as Barristan - producers trying to cut costs and cast size, simplifying writing, logistics, etc. both characters making stupid "last stand" decisions dying in the same way.
The Blackfish felt compelled by honor, because he ran away during the Red Wedding. He felt that he should've died there, and the only way to make it right was to die fighting the Lannisters, even if it's a pointless death. Also, he *was* quite old and looking for a warrior's death anyway.
@@ArgusStrav "as long as I'm still breathing, the war isn't over" - Blackfish
so instead of:
a) surrendering to Jaime and perhaps finding a chance to fight another day
or...
b) escaping with Brienne and try to rally some Tully loyalists to fight for Sansa's cause
-
he chooses to completely contradict his 'badass' mantra by dying, as you agreed, pointlessly. again, 100% same scenario as Barristan. we could also make the argument that Barristan died fighting because it's compelled by honor.
but again, dig deeper and you find that it's an abdication of his own principles and duties, and in the end is just a collateral of the cheapening of ideas in the writer's room.
@@rudy_4ier What do you mean Barristan died fighting because he was compelled by honor? He heard the sounds of fighting, ran in, and then there wasn't an opportunity to escape, if I recall correctly. Or are you saying he should've run away the second he heard fighting while he was still on the street?
@@rudy_4ier Re: the alternatives to dying: you seem to not want to accept the honor argument. Your B option of him literally running away would obviously be dishonorable. I don't get how you think that would be honorable.
Your A option is arguably acceptable, but I still think it makes logical sense that he's old and just wants a good death rather than having to surrender to a man he looks down upon, a man who is (in his eyes) the embodiment of dishonor.
@@ArgusStrav you've just ignored the second part of my option b, and made an argument against a strawman. you gonna continue to be dishonest?
I'll even copy and paste exactly what I wrote in case you want to try to be dishonest a second time:
b) escaping with Brienne and try to rally some Tully loyalists to fight for Sansa's cause
it's funny that you're preaching about a character being honorable, dishonorable, yet you're there blatantly misrepresenting my point. what a hypocrite. try again.
33:00 I don't know if I would call the Faceless men Arya's friends, but his is a complete show invention.
"You're getting old, Clegaine".
"He's not...".
Best line in the series. 👍
Lady Brienne, Heir to the Emerald Isles, King's Guard Champion, Maker of Vows, Breaker of Hounds . . . and the series isn't finished. She probably has the most satisfying arc given her motivations when we meet her, get some back story, see her in action and eventually end the series.
I know these guys have already watched them but I am so excited to watch the next two episodes.
The only thing I can say about feeling disappointed/confused by certain plot points or endings to story arcs is that those instances are only going to increase from here on out.
The books had not been written this far when the show was made. I have never seen a satisfying explanation of Jaqen's motives with regards to Arya. I think it was made ambiguous to keep people talking about the show. The closest people get to explain Jaqen is that he is repaying Arya saving his life in Season 2 with a free training as a Faceless Man. It does not explain the line "finally, a girl is no one", which is only there to justify the reply "a girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell and I'm going home". This line is pure fan service.
After season 5 all Arya storyline is fanservice.
@@Luca___00 Mostly, yes. But I enjoyed the theatre play. Best rendition of the story so far ;)
@@Luca___00 Not all fanservice. George RR Martin did discuss his plans for the books with the showrunners, so they had a rough idea of where the story was headed.
I think Jaq knew she had more eyes to close. This was a way to ensure she was ready to do so.
When you consider that the Faceless Men deal in the currency of death, you'll understand that Arya paid for her training by killing The Waif. I actually thought that was fairly straight forward.
I do like that they left the interpretation of Jaqen's actions at the end open to the viewer. Arya already had the debt repaid, she got two kills and unnamed Jaqen to escape.
However, she neatly trapped Jaqen by naming him, and he seemed impressed with her. So recruiting and training her and then pitting Arya against the Waif may be some sort of graduation ceremony. Two students fighting to the death is not uncommon in cults.
Arya choosing to go back to Westeros and finish her business there may lead her back to the Many Faced God. Jaqen knows that she will be a right killer unleashed upon those deserving of it, so the Many Faced God will be served time and time again with every death Arya metes out.
The House of Black and White is a place for assassins to train. It's not mentioned about what is done with their assassins once training is completed. Do they go back home, as Arya does? Do they create a new life and wait for word from the higher ups at the House for assassination missions? Do they stay at the House and train future students?
Don't forget, Arya is part of House Stark. Jaqen may be playing a long game by training her, and if Arya succeeds in her mission to eliminate the enemies of House Stark, then her Stark name will give her access to many high profile targets that would possibly be inaccessible for Faceless Men otherwise.
There are many possibilities, but I would not count the House of Black and White to be out of the picture forever in Arya's future.
Sparta: "Jamie screwed that (the siege of Riverrun) up bigtime". - I think you guys rather missed the point; Riverrun _had_ to be taken, it's war and Jamie can't unilaterally end it. But he managed to end the siege with not a drop of blood being shed and without having to take up arms against the Tullys. It's not "screwed", it's actually a big win for Jamie; he got the job done, no-one died and he kept his promise to Brienne. I do understand that by this point pretty much everyone who watched the show had their own agenda, but I always enjoy seeing such agendas crash against the show's own reality. :)
u right
Unfortunately the books are only finished through season 5 of the show, so we can't refer to the books anymore. In the books, they left off with Jon being dead, Danni is riding Drogon above the Dothraki which is a bit different than the show where she is taken by the Dothraki. Aria is still being trained by the faceless men. We are still waiting for "The Winds of Winter" but GRR Martin has not finished it yet. Not sure if he is ever going to finish it given his age.
Which is kind of why I wish people would shut up with the "but in the books" nonsense. What books? Have they read Winds of Winter somehow?
Jacken(sp?) is Jacken. He didn't die. He may say he is no one, but he clearly has a distinct personality. He can mimic others to such a degree that faceless men claim to be "no one." However, I take it as fantastic hyperbole on their part. He said Arya is finally "noone" as an invitation to join the faceless men as a full fledged member. She had acquired all of the prerequisite skills required. Though, this was just an invitation. Jacken knows and reads people too well to miss how fiercely independent and self aware Arya is. He was not surprised, and I believe more than a little proud, that she returned to her path. I've not read the books just my take.
I love Beric's voice
Pudgey is not a Queen, she is THE Queen.
I'm so hyped about watching you guys react to this season's finale aaaaaaaaaaaah
The faceless man doesn’t push external events. If it’s outside of his mission he accepts what happens. So when Arya finally became nobody and rejected her promotion, he simply accepted it. It’s what was supposed to happen as far as his beliefs go.
20:34 I hate what Tyrion has become. 🙄
It's miles better than him joining the circus and riding a pig - yes, that's what happens in the book. Painfully bad writing and butchering of a character there.
This scene is important because it establishes better the characters of Missandei and Grey Worm. Unfortunately what it establishes is how simple of people they are. Tyrion is sizing them up wrt their leadership abilities and they don't pass the test.
IMO Arya's arc was all about realising who she was destined to be. She was completely lost, and driven by rage before and during the faceless initiation. She had the potential to become a powerful weapon, but she was undisciplined. The whole "no one" identity struggle was there to give her the strength, focus, and cunning to face what she had to do as Arya Stark.
I think Jaqen always knew that she could never let go of her identity, she just had to realise it for herself.
26:56 What did they do? He just went on a spheel about I’ll launch youre new born baby over the walls I’ll slaughter all the tullys….you telling me you’d just let that happen 😂😂🤣🤣
Nothing special about the High Sparrow, he is after power just like any of the other players in the GoT. His only difference is that his source of power is the fanaticism of his followers, which he attracts through his veneer of piety and poverty.
Jamie threatened to have Edmures son killed which is why he gave up the castle and Blackfish.
"The girl is finally no one". The waif was supposed to be no one but she hated Arya and made it personal. She wasn't supposed to do that. It was against the rules. So by dying she finally became no one.
lol seems like you are writing your own story in your head
I have to say that I love that they made Cersei not back down. Really pay attention to when she’s says “I choose violence” she means it.
The familiar with Jacken is the same faceless person Arya 1st met with each encounter. He knew exactly what he was doing. He needed to train her and throughout the story every time she countered the faceless woman he had snark/face but always sided with Arya. He saw the fight in her when they first met/ like her father did.
If you pay attention throughout the story each men that helped Arya the ones that were around fit enough time resemble characteristics her father had.
Sansa on the other hand was had women come to her rescue throughout her entire run mostly. All the men she dealt with harmed her in some way.
So the thing with Jaqen and the faceless men is they serve the god of many faces. The god of many faces requires sacrifices and even if Arya isn’t officially a faceless man she will still serve the god of many faces by providing those sacrifices in her revenge. Jaqen knows she will give those sacrifices, that’s why he smiled.
Arya’s arc is confusing because it doesn’t make sense. She’s been training to be “no one” only to be back where she started only with better fighting skills.
“I’m the king.”
Amazing music plays. The rise of Queen Pudgy!
Long may she reign!
I took his reaction to mean that J'aqen wanted Arya to be a Faceless Man, but he likes her enough to respect that she not only survived the Waif's attempt to kill her but finally made up her mind and made a decision and she's going back to Westeros to go on a murder rampage with the skills he taught her. Maybe he'll get in trouble with a higher ranking Faceless Man for letting her go, maybe there are no higher ranking Faceless Men, maybe their rules allow him to make that call. Who knows?
It's normal to feel a bit let down by off camera fights & deaths but that's also what prevents the main course from getting cheapened. Not blowing the load early or repetitively was the key ingredient that made the big moments of this show so iconic imo. Having Arya cut out the candle makes for a much better suspense scene than another generic sword fight. They could've easily given the Blackfish a heroic sendoff like every other show would've done...and his fight scene would've meant nothing after the next fight. The last words to Brienne meant more. Yes Asoiaf Blackfish is legendary but he was never more than a side character in the show. You can't highlight all ten thousand book characters. A battle weary Blackfish opting to lay down arms at his ancestral home instead of jumping on a wild goose chase on the other side of the continent makes sense. What the Tully troops did was very much in line with history too. An oath to his liege lord took precedence in all decisions for an *honorable* knight. Honor...which brings us to Brienne & Jaime. This episode is theirs, the fighting at Riverrun is just the backdrop. Yet this obvious fact seem incomprehensible to the freefolk types. It would've been impractical to waste a season on a plot as complicated as the Siege of Riverrun. So why not incorporate it within the broader Jaime arc? The story of two star crossed lovers stuck on opposite sides of loyalty is shown phenomenally here. This is a great emotion driven episode. The blowout we'll get.
The build up for the last 2 episodes are brilliant
Nah. You nailed it. Jaqen was all about her being someone. The look he had 'said' it all. She had to be stripped down to 'no one' to be herself.
Jaghen... smiles at the end, I'd like to think..because the debt was paid. And the God of death has a tremendous asset, and ARYA IS now an exceptional killer 😊