Fawning is an automatic nervous system response outside of our conscious choice. When fight or flight is not accessible the alternative is freeze or fawn. We can get stuck in a chronic fawn state when access to fight or flight was repeatedly denied (such as in childhood). There is nothing rude about being assertive and standing up for your boundaries. I just yesterday went into fawning when someone was violating a physical boundary and rubbing my back. I would have not been a jerk by stating what I wanted to but my nervous system would not let me which would have been stating “ excuse me I am not comfortable with you touching me”.
Hey there - thanks for your insight and sorry this has happened to you. Could you resolve it later on? I know that I have both problems. I usually dont like physical contact but try to be open about it, by having learned to hug people; but when people hug for longer or they touch me on the shoulder etc.; I always feel unease too. On the opposite side of things.. I know that sometimes people really like a pat on the shoulder or what not, esp. close people and I have a hard time learning when to do that. To read the room right and to not be afraid to just have some superficial touch.
The scary part about my fawning is how little self-awareness I have that I'm doing it. Later on I'll see the pattern clearly, but in the moment it's like I'm completely blind to what's happening. I liked that tip of ask yourself what you would do if the other person weren't there. When I first left my husband grocery shopping was so strange, I forgot what I liked entirely somehow and just wandered around lost. It came back to me pretty quickly though!
Yes!!! It's taking me sooooo long to learn how to pause when I'm in a moment when I feel myself doing this. But even when I have a little awareness in the moment (which I'm having more of now that I've been practicing it for a bit) I still struggle to STOP IT and switch gears. OMG
Its because you have been put on spot and didn't have time to think about the answer. Write down all the situation you are commonly exposed to which leads you to Fawning and write the responses. Learn it by heart so next tine you are put on spot you already have an answer. Hope it helps.
It's just beginning to dawn on me that one of my weird compulsions is fawning. Recently I've been calling it the customer service voice. As soon as I perceive potential conflict, I automatically switch into a mode where I deal with the other person's emotions, while temporarily feeling numb to my own emotions. This video expresses the concepts so clearly, extremely eye-opening!
2:44 - 3:25 This is so true about how children are being conditioned to ignore their needs in order to prioritize the needs of the adult instead of teaching the child how to express their feelings according to their age and other developmental factors.
It’s so important to teach children to express their feelings. My parents were the old school type, who expected kids to keep their mouths shut. Then they acted like I had done something wrong when I had been a victim of SA, and didn’t tell them (only censoring myself so YT doesn’t drop my comment). If kids aren’t taught it’s acceptable to express unpleasant emotions and experiences, why would they talk to you when something bad happens. It’s unacceptable…right? That’s one major problem with telling kids to be “seen and not heard.” Everyone, kids included, has a need to be heard, especially when they need help. I still know college kids who are afraid to ask questions in school, if they don’t understand or agree with something. That’s a sad state of affairs. How are people supposed to magically develop assertiveness skills and confidence just because we are adults now? What we learn at an early age sticks with us a long time!
@@sciencenotstigma9534 I told my mother years later about my sa and her response was "well what about me?" I got up walked out of her house and I never spoke to her again
@@BobSmith-kd4oc Good for you! I’ve been there. You can’t deal with someone in such a selfish space, much less when they’re supposed to be your protector.
@@BobSmith-kd4oc I hope life is treating you much better now! By drawing that boundary, you invited in the possibility of being around people who deserve you. Even if I’m alone at times, it’s better than being around a hostile and/or selfish person. Hope and healing ❤️🩹 to you!
Agreed , friendliness and simple kindness are underrated . I am a friendly person and appreciate meeting friendly people . Being friendly ain't being a doormat .
i was for most of my life a people pleaser. Late in life I realized that by being this way, Invited abuse. I came to see that there were many out there without a shred of empathy. I live now a mostly solitary life, but I am happier for it. I keep my boundaries strong and am much more discerning when it comes to who I spend time with and how long.
Im similar but Im trying to find a middle ground. Chose solitude for some time but it didnt have to be long term Theres a way to get that earnest connection back. Its worth it
You are right. It is sad that people take my kindness for weakness and stupidity. It feels like being kind invites assholes and disrespectful people. It think i am trying so hard to get along with people that i do not defend myself and set boundaries and accept others being rude and try to explain their behavior and even wonder if i provoked them or put them into a situation where they a put in pressure by other people but know what? I try to excuses for them and blame myself while i am simply dealing with populistic lying gaslighting assholes. And did not realise who they were and what they were doing because i did not want to see their bad and refused to confront them. I need to promise myself to speak up and tell them what is truly on my mind and bot caring being an asshole. Why care if they dont either. It is hard but seems to be necessary. Very sad. I hate human people.
This is incredibly spot on with my own life/experiences however I am still struggling with setting boundaries, though doing my best with the help of therapy and self-love. I wish you the best and so much happiness in your solitude. You are an inspiration to those who currently struggle in the same way or have.
Ah yes this is a problem I've been dealing with for most my life. I constantly get told that I'm "too nice" and I need to stop letting people walk all over me. I agree that I let people get away with a bit too much because I'm very non-confrontational and I tend to keep the peace and avoid conflict at all costs. I am an ENFP and I also have C-PTSD (was just diagnosed last year), and I'm definitely familiar with what fawning is. I'm aware I do it and yet I'm always just too afraid to stand up for myself a lot of the time.
I think putting it in context that conflict isn't always a bad thing. Your need matter and if you don't exert them sometimes, you will grow resentful, and the relationship is in more jeopardy than if you just assert your needs in a polite way. If you find yourself around a lot of people who are always inconsiderate of your needs, only take advantage of your need to give in, and don't really want to make you happy, think what that means for you. If you're capable maybe move away from that and towards others who encourage you to express your wants, and self actualize.
Thank you for this video!! I've been struggling with this my whole life. I grew up always fawning and trying to make people happy because I was scared of being abandoned, and recently I kind of realized it so I went hard in the opposite direction. This has made people visibly uncomfortable, because, well, i've kind of been a jerk. This video right here is exactly what I needed to hear. You can still be a nice person and not fawn :)
I always say, there is no such thing as being too nice, only other people taking advantage of a person's niceness. Need to surround yourself with people who appreciate your kindness.
When it's coming from a place of trauma from trying to survive abuse as a child and not genuine or authentic it goes deeper than what you're describing. Which btw I totally get .
You’re describing my ideal world. I LOVE the fact that I’m authentically appreciative and kind. I have been through enough unkindness in my 63 years to really, really admire genuine kindness and compassion. Imagine if everyone were authentically kind. Not pushovers. Kind. There’s a difference.
I was confused about fawning for awhile. I definitely know that it's a defense mechanism that I have... so I started paying more attention to when friends and I were choosing food or locations. I have almost always been the, "I'll go where ever you all want to go" person. So, I was trying to figure out if this was a fawning reaction. I finally decided it wasn't fawning because I really didn't care. If they weren't there, I'd have a hard time choosing because I'm not a picky eater and my main goal was usually the social aspect of it less than the food... so I had no problem going with other people's choices. My fawning mechanisms usually kick in more in work situations and if someone is angry. Then my brain just goes on auto-pilot fawning and I usually hate myself afterwards. I still haven't been able to recognize and regulate in the moment yet. Working on it.
Im so happy and grateful when I see you in this case or anyone else doing inner work and learning about themselves. Excellent job making the world a better place.
I'm wondering if it's not better in such a condition to go all out in the moment, radically, then rethink and then set up a middle ground. Fawning is troublesome but in the relationship there are both sides, not only me fawning - there is also that angry one who would probably not understand feelings unless confronted with a harsh response. However the downside of it is that when you'll use that strong response then afterwards the guilt could beat you to the ground. So it is important to remember that you have given all that you have at the moment even though it is imperfect. Besides it's worth considering that your strong response (objectively or for the other side) might not be that harsh at all. I mean, like for a fawning, delicate person. Besides it's just a dinner.
I at times want caretaking. I recognize I had little care growing up and I want people to show that they care. Now with that being said I notice that for the last few years I have been finding out what my needs are and working on fulfilling them. I feel as if I am slowly pulling away from caretaking behavior. I also am a people pleaser and just received a book on this subject. I am learning to pause or "sleep on things" before I give an answer. I have also learned to go back as early as I can and let a person know to whom I overcommitted that I actually can't do xyz. I am learning to gently disappoint people so that I do not disappoint myself. The more I check inward the more secure I feel about my responses.
There is also "flop" as part of the four f's creating the 5fs; and this was a really great video as always; I love how you convey things so clearly and fluidly... another example of Fawning would be over explaining oneself
Great video. Thanks for addressing this. Many people consider fawning behavior to be "compromise" and many people think "compromise" is the "key " to a good relationship, but I disagree, because compromise equates to sacrifice. The key is in synergy; considering people's wants and needs and finding creative solutions to meet both. I don't believe anybody needs to sacrifice anything they want, especially not what they need. Having a synergistic attitude has improved my relationships tremendously!!!
But ugh, when a person has no idea what their own needs are no one else can know either. That is their personal work and can only be done be them. I see people who don’t have a clue as to their own essential needs adopting a power, control, manipulation dynamic with the world in which the simply try to “win” as much material goods, services, power over others as a substitute for figuring out and fulfilling their own CORE ESSENTIAL needs.
That's all fine and good if you attract people in your life willing to work with you and not walk away when they don't get what they think they want or they don't essentially care about your feelings
Let those other people walk away. Unless, of course, you are dependent on them for your very survival. If you can possibly do for yourself, they can keep it moving! ❤
Having grown up with undiagnosed ADHD and a pretty narcissistic mother, the need to always do right by people was a constant cause of added stress and anxiety, while being so far out of touch with myself lead to years of indecisiveness and self neglect. It took a long time to get to the point where I could confidently assert myself, say no, or even just remember to check in with myself. The ADHD memory meant that so often I'd agree to do a favour for someone that cost me time or money or just more stress, and it wouldn't be until hours or maybe days later when I'd get blindsided with the thought that I could have just said 'no'. Doh! One tip for getting out of the people pleasing and being more assertive is to replace the word "can't" with "won't". Trust me it makes a massive difference.
😮 Yikes! Using "won't" puts the responsibility back on ME--WAYYYY too transparent to say. "Can't" sounds much more like, "oh, sorry, it's out if MY CONTROL or I WOULD 😊(" There! Look how NICE I am")
@@clarkl4177 Obviously sometimes "can't" is the correct word to use. I find that when you use the word "can't" instead of "won't" I often inadvertently invite the other person to try to find some solution or way around it. Put simply, it backfires quite often.
I had always been told I was too nice and that my biggest flaw was that I was a people pleaser but I didn’t know how to be a different way or why it was so hard to change. When I learned that fawning is a trauma response it made so much sense and took the pressure of me feeling like there is something wrong with me. It gives a whole new perspective and realization about why I do it and that it’s possible to change by healing and doing the work on yourself. Thank you for sharing this information!
I’m a recovering fawner ☺️ found out about it in the last year or two and am working on being in touch with what I want. Honestly even when I’d be alone I wouldn’t know what I want or love and care for myself so I’d just work myself to the bone. This ignorance lead me to seek out relationships because the other persons needs and presence would give me a break from my own internal taskmaster. So glad for resources and channels like this!! You’re an absolute life saver ☺️🙏
😢ugh... once again I am CAUGHT! YEP. The whole "getting along is IMPERATIVE (which means NO conflict whatsoever 😮)" has pretty much been my MO. Sigh. Thanks for shining the light of truth on what Kindness vs Niceness looks like ❤
I just discovered you and I'm blown away by all of this!💥I had never heard of Pete Walker or a "Fawn Response" or CPTSD until I stumbled onto a video of yours yesterday and now I'm having all of these "ah-ha" realizations. And I can't get enough of your videos!! I am such a FAWNER and I had no idea. I've never thought that I was "too nice" exactly, because I sort of sensed that it wasn't about being "nice" (and I agree that MORE kindness is needed in our lives, not less), but more about people pleasing and having shitty boundaries. I wish I would've figured this shit out before I had my daughters because I've been accidentally modeling this behavior for them now, too!😫
This is such powerful stuff! I know it can be painful to realise we've been modeling trauma related behavior for our kids, but I've found that it's really healthy and healing for kids to have their parents openly talk about their less than healthy behaviors and be openly working to improve them. Like, I think my step daughter may have actually benefited more from me being like that than of i had just been 100% healthy, because she got to see that it's normal to look at our own behavior and how it impacts others, and makes efforts to change. Like, a simple example would be a time I got very impatient with her, then I stopped and just said to her, "Oh gosh! I'm sorry. I may be impatient, but it's not ok that I spoke to you that way. I love you and I want to be gentle with you. I think what I need is just a few minutes of quiet time to calm down so that I can be nicer again. Would you be ok with playing for 5 minutes by yourself while I make myself a cup of tea?" And also say, "I understand if you're feeling upset or angry at me. That's ok and it makes sense to be unhappy when somebody speaks to us in a way that feels bad." (and offer her a hug if she wants, and maybe ask her if she wants to tell me how she's feeling) Sorry for the long comment but I felt compassion reading your comment and hope you aren't being hard on yourself for being certain ways when you didn't know different options 💖
Seeing you realize you are making mistakes, course correct, and apply effort and determination to heal for the sake of yourself and everyone is an incredibly valuable thing to model. They are going to have wounds and scars, maybe tiny ones, maybe bigger ones, but we all have them. But not all of us get the chance to see our caregivers recognize their scars and make hard efforts because they love us. Life is a learning pathway. Hugs and best wishes!
Practising staying in my own body and be open to feeling what I need and want and calmly, considerately express it, rather than abandoning myself in co-dependent over-care, uncertain whether my need/wish is reasonable or not, and wanting to be nice to ensure the continuation of the contact, by catering for their needs. I also tend to treat men as though they were (women) like myself: Very attentive to the other's need, especially if I he did sth for me.
For so many years I kept silent about my desires. So once I gained some independence in my 20s I swung to being inconsiderate. I’ve realized now that it hasn’t brought me the results that I had hoped.
How am I this old and just learning about CPTSD? My goodness, this changes everything. A lifetime of struggles explained so simply; now comes the hard part. It will be one thing to overcome this to create a healthy balance in my life, it will be quite another to not feel guilty about actually doing something for myself. This is devastating to me. It's not the things done to me, it is a lifetime of lost potential and not knowing why. I am having a hard time with that and wonder just who I really am. I'd like to meet him, he has been hiding all his life. I guess I have been waiting for someone to tell me it is safe to come out of my hiding closet, he is gone forever and is no longer a threat. Thank you Heidi for painting a very practical picture we can all see clearly. Let me tell you, it is on! I just needed to know, I cannot address what I do not understand. Time to take my life back, this is NOT over!
Me neither! I always thought it was like flirting, because I have heard the term used differently, in that context. This makes much more sense, without the demeaning connotation.
I want to thank you so much for bringing up that while we’re responsible for our own emotions, that doesn’t give us the right to block, “call out,” ignore or shun another person, especially a so-called friend! So many people just decide someone’s all bad and overuse that block button, overuse the term “psychic vampire” and just discard a relationship like trash. Communication seems to be becoming a lost art and that is very sad. Personally, when I tell someone they’ve hurt me and why or that at the very least, I FEEL hurt as a result of their actions, I often get the response, “That is on YOU.” And, “You are responsible for your own happiness and self-worth.” Which, to an extent, I agree. But say everyone dismissed and rejected a highly confident person. I feel like the constant negativity of others would eventually chip away at that person’s self-esteem. So I don’t like this new way of thinking that we are in no way responsible for other people’s feelings. I find it selfish and rude and I really appreciate your calling that out in this video. Do you have a video on this topic specifically? Thanks for your content, I’m really learning from your videos!
Yes! This all the way!!! This has been on my mind for years. My family has been calling me really negative lately after being devastated by friends who constantly were inconsiderate to me and left me feeling super gaslit about the whole situation. I eventually parted ways with many of them because I knew in my heart we probably couldnt reconcile the situation without me being considered clingy or them having resentment for expressing my needs. Relationships are a two way street and feeling like you're walking on eggshells is never a good sign.
My mother was a psychopathic narcissist. She taught us the fawn response and demanded it whenever she made a "request" of us. She wasn't satisfied with obedience; she wanted the reassurance of obedience PLUS mutual agreement. I think my brothers and I were pretty much aware of this two-fold demand. And we kind of acknowledged her conditions, while being aware we were not being asked our preference. I think the three brothers were aware of compliance, but because of the strength of each others' role in the family - golden child, scapegoat, and lost child - which roles we had NOT figured out at the time, we complied with the whole fawning response routine. My oldest brother, as a feature of his role as the Golden Child, was also required to stand by her when a REQUEST was made, and to strike out at my scapegoat brother or me who might be independent enough to question such a request.
So sorry you all had to suffer through that. It warms my heart that at least you've reached a certain amount of clarity, enough that you can share a bit which might help others. Best wishes towards total health, if we can dare to dream so boldly. :)
Chronic fawner here, I just thought I was being submissive and agreeable. But it does certainly bottle up. I’m sure my body diffuses some of that energy but occasionally I do swing the pendulum!
Thank you for this video. I agree 1000%. I'd add that that there seems to be this idea that either everyone has to be friends or you hate each other and are enemies. There's a middle ground known as peaceable coexistence. Not everyone is going to like you, but you CAN exist in the same space or even work together and not be at war.
It is so challenging to break this response. Often, I don’t recognize that I am doing it until I look back later. Thank you for sharing you kindness, compassion, and wisdom. ❤❤❤
It fauned on me as I was watching that it was this particular perspective/description that I was searching for in differentiating between "PP & C-D". Huge reconciliation! Thank you for shining bright!
Another super clear and helpful video. Thanks, Heidi. Love the way you've explained the middle ground and that it's human and respectful to ask people what they need.
Therapist mentioned codependency like the codependency no more book type. Due to mental illness in a parent. But this makes sense too. I feel it was enlightening as well and provided reassurance on actions steps for both. Extremes and how not to fall into them.
So, I would say that fawning, like fighting, is a response that is reserved to social stressors, where no escape or distance is possible, while flight and freeze can be responses to environmental, non-social threats aswell.
OMG!!! The dinner conversation is exactly what I go through when we are trying to go out as a family. My son has a strong fawning response and I feel awful about it. Thank you for explaining this and for approaches to address it.
Recently learning there was a word for this has been so helpful. The amount of shame and self gaslighting I’ve done around this has been immense. I go into a fawn response when someone asks for anything. I had to start treating the word “help” as a four letter word. That was my first boundary to stop doing this. Another was learning that I’m aloud to change my mind, and I don’t have to explain myself. I grew up super poor in a narcissistic family system. It explains how I got here, but trying to heal and be better has been a life pursuit. I’m a self employed carpenter, I’ve been basically working for free for a couple decades because of this and have no real sense of my self worth. Most of my life I have been punished for asking or stating my needs because I managed to surround myself with all manner of narcs apparently from being groomed by them from birth. As I continue to learn I also realize that I fawn in their presence in general if I’m not keeping up on my grounding and meditation. If I fawn I spend so much time ruminating on, why did I say that, why did I agree to such a thing, why on earth would I offer to do such a thing? What the f is wrong with me?
I always hate it when people around calling me a kind or an easy going person. It just it didn’t feel right I never felt like I’m kind, but also didn’t know what I was doing exactly. Now I know that I was fawning all the time
Once again you have proven to give us exceptionally good advice. I think this is one of the problems we ENFPs have the most, we want so much to make others feel good that we consciously or unconsciously harm ourselves. It happened to me many times that I spent more time helping others than helping myself, in a way that was not very sustainable for me. The best thing to do is to realize this as soon as possible and also start realizing that things have to be balanced. The advice you have given is excellent and it is perfectly possible to say "No" without being an ungrateful or unpleasant person.
I have just realized I do this all the time. Inhave no idea what I want… I am also learning about the C-PTSD and Trauma I have (as a Fearful-Avoidant)… OMG… This is very hard to realize. I am currently looking for a therapist… I do need help. Even though its causing a very negative and gross feeling inside… Thank you Heidi, you videos finally made me hear this… in a way that it has finally promoted something inside of me to get help and go deeper…🙏🏼🌷
Ah!! This is such helpful information!! I've historically thought I was "to nice" and need to be "more of an ass hole" because I was always doing what others wanted instead of what I wanted. But something always didn't seem to add up, how can being less nice to people help anyone? Now I see the difference between niceness and fawning. Thank you.
I'm trying to think before fawning - what am I frightened of, that I am defending myself by burying my needs? That the person wont like it - that's fine, they dont have to like everything about me. That the relationship will break down - it wasnt right in the first place if they respect my needs so little. It's highly unlikely that there is a physical danger to stating your needs (although if there is then escape quick), even if someone is angry about it. They can be angry, that is their emotion to deal with. Once they calm, then there can be a discussion. I'm also working on only saying sorry when I have genuinely messed up, rather than just to placate the other person. But it is hard after a life of doing it.
Each day I get more signs that my calling is to leverage off my pain and healing, follow my calling (despite at age 44 having no uni qualifications, but a lifetime of reading and selfwork) to follow your lead and do this work, maybe start my own channel to spread the good work. You are been the single most influential and helpful resource to date and I want more than anything to help people the way you have helped and inspired me.
It took me a lifetime of experience, reading, and working on myself and, at 42, I now have one more year of uni before I have a psychology and neurobiology degree! I already have a Chemical Dependency certification, and am doing patient advocacy in mental health and addiction treatment systems! I love it! Personally, it’s something I’ve been through before. Therefore, I really understand that individuals have specific needs and treatment styles they respond to. I’m sure your reading and experience has left you with insight into something, or things, you are passionate about. I told my counselor, “If I go to university at 41, I’ll be 45 when I finish.” She asked, “How old will you be in 4 years, if you don’t go to school?” That is the wisest, most helpful advice I have ever received! It took me a year to get funds and get accepted, but I have a career now. Keep your resolve…you can do it! Whether you will need further education or not to fulfill your dreams, don’t let anything stop you. We do learn a tremendous amount by living. ❤
@@sciencenotstigma9534Amazing! Thanks for much for responding. I totally agree with you. Funnily enough your reply reads like I could have written it to someone is this situation... hahaha ENFP? 😆 After realising the 30 + hours a week I spend on my self education, is a workload similar to 2 uni papers a semester, I've decided to sit in ny knowledge and understand that instead of doing a BA in Pysch, with a bunch of mandatory papers, I've done in incredibly intense deep dive of specialist study into areas that mean, I most likely have a broader and more specific understanding of my special interest areas. Making me an SME whether or not I have a degree, plus lived experience. So I'm going to claim that and work with what I've got, which is an awful lot. I'm going to do the Gabor Mate Compassionate Enquiry self study course and build my skills selectively and strategically ❤️ All the best of your degree and your new career! Reach for the stars 🌟 then shake them a little 😄 and a little sprinkle star dust on the world 🌎 ✨️ 🎶 ♥️
I'm 33 and just learning about this. Raised by a somewhat authoritarian mother. Thank you Heidi, this and your other videos have been incredibly enlightening.
OMG, hahaha, that comment about the North American school system is the BEST!!!! We need more of the type of commentary that ties these types of pathologies to bigger systems and structures and societal forces, these days!
I'm a frequent fawner, as a 21M, it's been difficult to navigate but I appreciate this video for shedding light on the behavior. I was in a relationship a few years ago with someone who would get angry with me, & it was a cyclical routine of apologies and growing resentment. 1:1 with the description in this video. Since then I've organically set much more of my own boundaries, it has helped a lot, but I'll still put my head down in moments of weakness sometimes. it's a work in progress! Good content!
Very helpful. Its so new that the don't care about what you want i need my ... And i will have it. Is one extreme on a spectrum. I fawn a lot. I fawn, resentment is growing, then i flip and i get me what i need. Usually i hide this too. So my needs are protected from being seen and taken advantage of. I try to learn feeling and saying my no. Guess what. I feel that threatened and overwhelmed that i forget to check in with the other person's needs. But only when the relaitionship is one where i don't feel safe. When i feel threadened by the past boundary crossings that come up because the conflict never got not endet. What's pretty difficult with a fawn response. Plus I go numb at some point, i shift from fawning into disoziating freeze into functional freeze with some fawn response so... It's a learning and healing process to get connected to my needs at all. My needs made me feel as demanding to much as a kid what brought me in danger so. It have been necessary to fawn to stay connected with my caregivers and it have been so long where i had to suppress my needs that i started to dissociate to not always feel the pain that intense and to stay functioning.
As a person with disabilities, I can relate to this! I’m not sure what your situation is, but it sounds like you’re doing the best you can. When you’re threatened by people you depend on for your survival, it’s a normal response. If they can be replaced by someone more responsive to your needs, then it’s a good time to resist learned helplessness. If you don’t need someone who treats you poorly and can end that relationship safely, it’s not healthy to stay and fawn and dissociate. There are situations where it’s a bit more complicated, however. ❤
How do I become this emotionally mature and accountable?? I'm 44 and seemingly clueless. I lack the ability to become this self-aware, let alone communicate it to the other individual.
I’m watching this in 2024 because I recently discovered your channel. I had no idea that I was doing this, but I do it all the time. My mom used to do this and it drove me crazy. I can’t believe I’m doing it as well. I think your videos are brilliant. You totally hit the nail on the head about how we can ping-pong between fawning and then sometimes just expecting other people to meet our needs and not even thinking about how that impacts them. My friends often describe me as “too nice“, but I totally agree with you that there’s no such thing as too nice. Now it’s clear to me. And I have a bad habit of doing things for people and then turning resentful after I realize I didn’t really want to do it. It’s not their fault! Thank you for pointing that out to me. I really appreciate your videos and I also appreciate your willingness to be vulnerable with us. Thank you so much, Heidi! You’re a treasure.💕
You actually made me wonder about something I was asked to do two days ago, and question myself if I was fawning to please someone I like and I'm getting to know now, or if it was genuine. I've had a fawning response in the past, based upon a childhood issue, and very, very recently just got taken for granted to a scale that costed me my whole social group for saying "no, this is not fair to me" for maybe the first time with those people. As you can imagine, I'm a bit wary about going into the same patterning again. But, to be honest, what this person asked me to do is actually something I enjoy doing, I'm flattered to be asked to take part into something this important (I'm just entering their social group), and I do enjoy contributing to things. So I think not fawning this time!
Thanks for the clarification! I am a fawner, burned in me for surviving, and have trouble now that I am out of this situation. I couldn't quite pinpoint my problem tho for a while. Your video helped in giving me proper words and contextualising what I do more
Omg Heidi it feels like every one of your recent videos has been Taylor made for what I'm going through real time! Do you have a fly on my wall?! Please know your process and work is having immediate real life impact on my situation and (sadly) self guided work and giving me insight and guidance I can find no other place! Thanking you and most grateful for your wisdom and authenticity every day.
This was extremely difficult for me to watch because I have been fawning all my life. I am truly thankful for the way you are helping me despite it being painful to go on this journey 😢
wow, i really needed this this week more than ever. i never knew the terminology for this patterning, so thank you for clearing that up and distinguishing it so thoroughly! never heard of fawning and it's nice to now know how to navigate the highest possible harmony for all my relationships. i also really appreciate you providing actual actionable steps and 'how-to's, if you will, in order to put your education on these topics into practice within our lives. hope you're having a very pleasant day!
I am first hearing about fawning from your video. And I do it so often that it's painful emotionally. I realized my people pleasing/codependent nature perhaps a year ago. But I just discovered your channel and am already picking up new insights to myself. I appreciate the steps you provided. I'm gonna try my best to ask myself how I would act if I were alone before responding. I especially have a knee jerk reaction to say sorry hopefully I can apply these themes to that tendency.
❤ Thank you.. Thank you!!! This brings me Some Sanity and Humanity to combining Freeze, Fawn, Enmeshment, Lack of Identity, Detachment (a step out of unbearable zombie land). This has Sooooo given me hope. ❤❤❤
What's also wild is that for years I would constantly almost push and ask people what they wanted ask them to tell me, especially in relationships only to realize years later that I wasn't clearly asking for what I wanted in multiple romantic relationships and friendships, either. And I still struggle to ask for what I want directly. I struggle to acknowledge my own agency and responsibility. It's devastating, really, to be so far back inside your own head and closed off from your own wants and needs. It's wild how I expected people to do things I didn't really know how to do myself. I just pretended.
I have never been a fawner. I'm more of a flight or fighter. I really like the way you explain things and I will be sharing this video with a friend who may find it helpful (highly doubt they will watch though but I can try). This just sounds like a great video that could go into a compilation on how to help an anxious person learn confidence with social skills!
I realize these days I fawn. This was a good video. I gotta be better about being in the middle ground and considering my wants and needs, as well as others. I still catch myself fawning too much, and it does show in resentments.
When we are too nice, this allow people to take advantage of us because those too nice do not know how to discern between healthy strangers and dangerous strangers. 😮
Another great video, Heidi. Definitely new to fawn response recovery. My only contribution is that I think the word “nice” may be beyond redemption, and is too loaded with people-pleasing connotations to ever again be something to aspire to. “Kind” and “considerate” are the ones for me.
I am learning to avoid extremes. Being able to use discernment in each situation and at the same time owning up to who I am with self respect. It's a balancing act. Good video.
I didn't know!?! Learned from Dr. Gaber Mate, being nice all the time is a trauma response, but to explain it's fawning took my understanding to a whole new level. Also, you explained my responsibility in understanding and communicating my needs and wants. Wow, I needed that! Thanks Heidi😊
🙌🏾 thank you for this! I am definitely going to do more reading about this! I often referred to it as people pleasing. I had no idea this was an actual response state. I’ve done this majority of my life. I actually finally come to the realization in my life that this is probably why I don’t have many genuine healthy relationships 😢! But it’s something I am definitely working through this year!!
We are expected to put the other's needs before our own, usually the other won't take advantage over your kindness, & ordinarily the kind one will pull out from being used, for me going so slow now has been detrimental in many ways cause I'm not quick to recognize being used, & responding appropriately..
Very clearly explained. From definition to how to catch oneself . Thank you!!! I used to use the word 'placate', as thats what i saw my mother do with my step-father growing up, now i know it as 'fawning' and it all makes much more sense. Down to why sometimes i dont feel like a full person. Duh, i put myself on the backburner most of my life! After my mom passed almost 2 yrs ago, i swore off ever placating again. Tho...I suppose my villain stage of being inconsiderate may have to be over now 😅. I'm no fan of emotional libertarianism. Thank you for giving the examples of fawning vs. inconsiderate vs. kind. It is immensely helpful to have those examples!
Thank you Heidi - this has been long on my list and I have been learning to stay focused while fawning and interrupt that pattern. What I have learned is; that due to all the fawning, many people assumed (or were conditioned by me lol) that I am more of a listener. And when I am now voicing my opinions and so on, I realize that people interrupt me pretty often. Its still triggering to me, because of emotional neglect as a kid; I always feel the pain that my opinion doesnt matter. I still need to learn to be more assertive in those moments and at least say sth. along the lines of "hey..please let me finish my thoughts on that matter; I dont feel respected when you interrupt me all the time"
I recently discovered this channel. Heidi you are such a great teacher. Your insights are helping me understand myself and my loved ones and the world around me. I’m in the recovery process from abuse in childhood and in my adult life. I still have triggers but I’m learning how to get through them better and heal the root cause. This video was PERFECT for me. Thanks for so generously sharing your wisdom and knowledge with the world. This knowledge needs to be common so that we can live in a much more peaceful and harmonious world!
The first kindness is listening to others' opinions. I used to take the floor to much with my neurosis and admittedly bad stuff happening. I have to listen well by telling myself that even people I don't agree with have a psychological or spiritual message worth listening to. I have to take every discussion with a spiritual angle.
I was just recently in a situation where after it was over I could look back in hindsight trying to find where it went wrong and I got to a point of understanding where I told myself I know i wasn't being too nice but I was being nice in an inappropriate way and now I know there's a word for it. Thanks for that
I love this distinction and concept. It makes me think of situations in which I've been on either end of that response. It's often joked how someone needs to take charge and make a decision, but that never sat right with me either. An ability to build consensus takes communication and maybe that's the part friends can be a in a rush to skip over because it can be uncomfortable/because they might not know how? I wonder. I like the perspective of actually being nice needing to find that middle ground. Learning to model it and also to cultivate it in others for better outcomes and relationships, this is really cool.
This was really good. i had a habit of fawning and going along with whatever the person wanted, now I am doing a good job of speaking up, stating what I want. i like the example of asking myself, if this person wasn't here, what would i want? pure perfection
I appreciate you demonstarating the healthy way of doing things. It can be incredibly confusing sometimes. I don’t know why it’s so hard to know what the right thing is 😂
Fawning is an automatic nervous system response outside of our conscious choice. When fight or flight is not accessible the alternative is freeze or fawn. We can get stuck in a chronic fawn state when access to fight or flight was repeatedly denied (such as in childhood). There is nothing rude about being assertive and standing up for your boundaries. I just yesterday went into fawning when someone was violating a physical boundary and rubbing my back. I would have not been a jerk by stating what I wanted to but my nervous system would not let me which would have been stating “ excuse me I am not comfortable with you touching me”.
I only recently heard of this. I was shockef to see that in my,own life. I'm 66, better late than never.
Hey there - thanks for your insight and sorry this has happened to you. Could you resolve it later on? I know that I have both problems. I usually dont like physical contact but try to be open about it, by having learned to hug people; but when people hug for longer or they touch me on the shoulder etc.; I always feel unease too. On the opposite side of things.. I know that sometimes people really like a pat on the shoulder or what not, esp. close people and I have a hard time learning when to do that. To read the room right and to not be afraid to just have some superficial touch.
The scary part about my fawning is how little self-awareness I have that I'm doing it. Later on I'll see the pattern clearly, but in the moment it's like I'm completely blind to what's happening. I liked that tip of ask yourself what you would do if the other person weren't there. When I first left my husband grocery shopping was so strange, I forgot what I liked entirely somehow and just wandered around lost. It came back to me pretty quickly though!
I sooooo relate!
That is my experience also. Trauma fawned response kicks in before I can adjust....clear as mud in that moment!
Yes!!! It's taking me sooooo long to learn how to pause when I'm in a moment when I feel myself doing this. But even when I have a little awareness in the moment (which I'm having more of now that I've been practicing it for a bit) I still struggle to STOP IT and switch gears. OMG
Its because you have been put on spot and didn't have time to think about the answer. Write down all the situation you are commonly exposed to which leads you to Fawning and write the responses. Learn it by heart so next tine you are put on spot you already have an answer. Hope it helps.
I can relate so much with you, it's amazing how difficult it's to notice the constant fawning we give 😢
It's just beginning to dawn on me that one of my weird compulsions is fawning. Recently I've been calling it the customer service voice. As soon as I perceive potential conflict, I automatically switch into a mode where I deal with the other person's emotions, while temporarily feeling numb to my own emotions. This video expresses the concepts so clearly, extremely eye-opening!
Yeah hairdresser mode.😂
Ugh same sis. Same.
@@stonedoliveees😂
I think considering the emotions of others and keeping a conflict from escalating is a part of being self aware. So striking the balance is key.
Customer service voice 😂 wonderful said ❤
2:44 - 3:25 This is so true about how children are being conditioned to ignore their needs in order to prioritize the needs of the adult instead of teaching the child how to express their feelings according to their age and other developmental factors.
It’s so important to teach children to express their feelings. My parents were the old school type, who expected kids to keep their mouths shut. Then they acted like I had done something wrong when I had been a victim of SA, and didn’t tell them (only censoring myself so YT doesn’t drop my comment). If kids aren’t taught it’s acceptable to express unpleasant emotions and experiences, why would they talk to you when something bad happens. It’s unacceptable…right? That’s one major problem with telling kids to be “seen and not heard.” Everyone, kids included, has a need to be heard, especially when they need help. I still know college kids who are afraid to ask questions in school, if they don’t understand or agree with something. That’s a sad state of affairs. How are people supposed to magically develop assertiveness skills and confidence just because we are adults now? What we learn at an early age sticks with us a long time!
@@sciencenotstigma9534 I told my mother years later about my sa and her response was "well what about me?" I got up walked out of her house and I never spoke to her again
@@BobSmith-kd4oc Good for you! I’ve been there. You can’t deal with someone in such a selfish space, much less when they’re supposed to be your protector.
@@BobSmith-kd4oc I hope life is treating you much better now! By drawing that boundary, you invited in the possibility of being around people who deserve you. Even if I’m alone at times, it’s better than being around a hostile and/or selfish person. Hope and healing ❤️🩹 to you!
@@sciencenotstigma9534 actually I prefer to be alone as much as possible not that I'm lonely but I prefer to be alone
Agreed , friendliness and simple kindness are underrated . I am a friendly person and appreciate meeting friendly people . Being friendly ain't being a doormat .
Yes. And it's also NOT a come on, which much of the male population does not understand.
Yes and, its naturally attractive
YES. It changed my life to discover that my fawning was a trauma response. Love how nuanced & insightful your information on this topic was!!
Same!
Yeah I had no idea!!!
i was for most of my life a people pleaser. Late in life I realized that by being this way, Invited abuse.
I came to see that there were many out there without a shred of empathy.
I live now a mostly solitary life, but I am happier for it. I keep my boundaries strong and am much more discerning when it comes to who I spend time with and how long.
Am also solitary, older, and have lost so much.
Im similar but Im trying to find a middle ground. Chose solitude for some time but it didnt have to be long term
Theres a way to get that earnest connection back. Its worth it
You are right. It is sad that people take my kindness for weakness and stupidity. It feels like being kind invites assholes and disrespectful people. It think i am trying so hard to get along with people that i do not defend myself and set boundaries and accept others being rude and try to explain their behavior and even wonder if i provoked them or put them into a situation where they a put in pressure by other people but know what? I try to excuses for them and blame myself while i am simply dealing with populistic lying gaslighting assholes. And did not realise who they were and what they were doing because i did not want to see their bad and refused to confront them. I need to promise myself to speak up and tell them what is truly on my mind and bot caring being an asshole. Why care if they dont either. It is hard but seems to be necessary. Very sad. I hate human people.
@@ifyourepeatalieoftenenough8500 dont engage with assholes. Walk away. they want to provoke. Dont feed the trolls!
This is incredibly spot on with my own life/experiences however I am still struggling with setting boundaries, though doing my best with the help of therapy and self-love. I wish you the best and so much happiness in your solitude. You are an inspiration to those who currently struggle in the same way or have.
Denying our intuition is the guillotine. Always trust your gut.
Have spent years fawning - and coming to realize it is not only not appreciated but I have been really taken advantage of. Time to set up boundaries!
I really recommend the episode on Boundaries on the We can fo hard things podcast.
yes or they can be confused as walls if not understood. That episode helped me understand healthy creation of them@@beatsg
Ah yes this is a problem I've been dealing with for most my life. I constantly get told that I'm "too nice" and I need to stop letting people walk all over me. I agree that I let people get away with a bit too much because I'm very non-confrontational and I tend to keep the peace and avoid conflict at all costs. I am an ENFP and I also have C-PTSD (was just diagnosed last year), and I'm definitely familiar with what fawning is. I'm aware I do it and yet I'm always just too afraid to stand up for myself a lot of the time.
This is me also. It’s nice to know you’re not the only one ❤
I think putting it in context that conflict isn't always a bad thing. Your need matter and if you don't exert them sometimes, you will grow resentful, and the relationship is in more jeopardy than if you just assert your needs in a polite way. If you find yourself around a lot of people who are always inconsiderate of your needs, only take advantage of your need to give in, and don't really want to make you happy, think what that means for you. If you're capable maybe move away from that and towards others who encourage you to express your wants, and self actualize.
Yep that's me too
Undiagnosed but same
Start taking cold showers, they will cut the fawn response at the core.
Thank you for this video!! I've been struggling with this my whole life. I grew up always fawning and trying to make people happy because I was scared of being abandoned, and recently I kind of realized it so I went hard in the opposite direction. This has made people visibly uncomfortable, because, well, i've kind of been a jerk. This video right here is exactly what I needed to hear. You can still be a nice person and not fawn :)
I had a conversation with my brother about this and we call it "being a recovering need-nothing"
lol…..yes
My mom made me a fawning people pleaser. I was parentified child to my two younger sisters one was down syndrome
I always say, there is no such thing as being too nice, only other people taking advantage of a person's niceness. Need to surround yourself with people who appreciate your kindness.
When it's coming from a place of trauma from trying to survive abuse as a child and not genuine or authentic it goes deeper than what you're describing. Which btw I totally get .
You’re describing my ideal world. I LOVE the fact that I’m authentically appreciative and kind. I have been through enough unkindness in my 63 years to really, really admire genuine kindness and compassion. Imagine if everyone were authentically kind. Not pushovers. Kind. There’s a difference.
2:31 "Giving ourselves amnesia about our own wants and needs" GENIUS definition, thank you!
I was confused about fawning for awhile. I definitely know that it's a defense mechanism that I have... so I started paying more attention to when friends and I were choosing food or locations. I have almost always been the, "I'll go where ever you all want to go" person. So, I was trying to figure out if this was a fawning reaction. I finally decided it wasn't fawning because I really didn't care. If they weren't there, I'd have a hard time choosing because I'm not a picky eater and my main goal was usually the social aspect of it less than the food... so I had no problem going with other people's choices. My fawning mechanisms usually kick in more in work situations and if someone is angry. Then my brain just goes on auto-pilot fawning and I usually hate myself afterwards. I still haven't been able to recognize and regulate in the moment yet. Working on it.
Im so happy and grateful when I see you in this case or anyone else doing inner work and learning about themselves. Excellent job making the world a better place.
I'm wondering if it's not better in such a condition to go all out in the moment, radically, then rethink and then set up a middle ground. Fawning is troublesome but in the relationship there are both sides, not only me fawning - there is also that angry one who would probably not understand feelings unless confronted with a harsh response. However the downside of it is that when you'll use that strong response then afterwards the guilt could beat you to the ground. So it is important to remember that you have given all that you have at the moment even though it is imperfect. Besides it's worth considering that your strong response (objectively or for the other side) might not be that harsh at all. I mean, like for a fawning, delicate person. Besides it's just a dinner.
Yeah mine is mainly in work situations. Like if ever there's a problem I'll pretty much llow myself to take the blame, every if it wants me.
I at times want caretaking. I recognize I had little care growing up and I want people to show that they care. Now with that being said I notice that for the last few years I have been finding out what my needs are and working on fulfilling them. I feel as if I am slowly pulling away from caretaking behavior. I also am a people pleaser and just received a book on this subject. I am learning to pause or "sleep on things" before I give an answer. I have also learned to go back as early as I can and let a person know to whom I overcommitted that I actually can't do xyz. I am learning to gently disappoint people so that I do not disappoint myself. The more I check inward the more secure I feel about my responses.
I líke the term you use of gently dissapointing others. Definitely something for me to work on.
There is also "flop" as part of the four f's creating the 5fs;
and this was a really great video as always; I love how you convey things so clearly and fluidly...
another example of
Fawning would be over explaining oneself
❤
Great video. Thanks for addressing this. Many people consider fawning behavior to be "compromise" and many people think "compromise" is the "key " to a good relationship, but I disagree, because compromise equates to sacrifice. The key is in synergy; considering people's wants and needs and finding creative solutions to meet both. I don't believe anybody needs to sacrifice anything they want, especially not what they need. Having a synergistic attitude has improved my relationships tremendously!!!
But ugh, when a person has no idea what their own needs are no one else can know either. That is their personal work and can only be done be them. I see people who don’t have a clue as to their own essential needs adopting a power, control, manipulation dynamic with the world in which the simply try to “win” as much material goods, services, power over others as a substitute for figuring out and fulfilling their own CORE ESSENTIAL needs.
That's all fine and good if you attract people in your life willing to work with you and not walk away when they don't get what they think they want or they don't essentially care about your feelings
Let those other people walk away. Unless, of course, you are dependent on them for your very survival. If you can possibly do for yourself, they can keep it moving! ❤
Having grown up with undiagnosed ADHD and a pretty narcissistic mother, the need to always do right by people was a constant cause of added stress and anxiety, while being so far out of touch with myself lead to years of indecisiveness and self neglect. It took a long time to get to the point where I could confidently assert myself, say no, or even just remember to check in with myself. The ADHD memory meant that so often I'd agree to do a favour for someone that cost me time or money or just more stress, and it wouldn't be until hours or maybe days later when I'd get blindsided with the thought that I could have just said 'no'. Doh!
One tip for getting out of the people pleasing and being more assertive is to replace the word "can't" with "won't". Trust me it makes a massive difference.
😮 Yikes! Using "won't" puts the responsibility back on ME--WAYYYY too transparent to say. "Can't" sounds much more like, "oh, sorry, it's out if MY CONTROL or I WOULD 😊(" There! Look how NICE I am")
@@clarkl4177 Obviously sometimes "can't" is the correct word to use. I find that when you use the word "can't" instead of "won't" I often inadvertently invite the other person to try to find some solution or way around it. Put simply, it backfires quite often.
I had always been told I was too nice and that my biggest flaw was that I was a people pleaser but I didn’t know how to be a different way or why it was so hard to change. When I learned that fawning is a trauma response it made so much sense and took the pressure of me feeling like there is something wrong with me. It gives a whole new perspective and realization about why I do it and that it’s possible to change by healing and doing the work on yourself. Thank you for sharing this information!
I’m a recovering fawner ☺️ found out about it in the last year or two and am working on being in touch with what I want. Honestly even when I’d be alone I wouldn’t know what I want or love and care for myself so I’d just work myself to the bone. This ignorance lead me to seek out relationships because the other persons needs and presence would give me a break from my own internal taskmaster.
So glad for resources and channels like this!! You’re an absolute life saver ☺️🙏
😢ugh... once again I am CAUGHT! YEP. The whole "getting along is IMPERATIVE (which means NO conflict whatsoever 😮)" has pretty much been my MO. Sigh. Thanks for shining the light of truth on what Kindness vs Niceness looks like ❤
I just discovered you and I'm blown away by all of this!💥I had never heard of Pete Walker or a "Fawn Response" or CPTSD until I stumbled onto a video of yours yesterday and now I'm having all of these "ah-ha" realizations. And I can't get enough of your videos!! I am such a FAWNER and I had no idea. I've never thought that I was "too nice" exactly, because I sort of sensed that it wasn't about being "nice" (and I agree that MORE kindness is needed in our lives, not less), but more about people pleasing and having shitty boundaries. I wish I would've figured this shit out before I had my daughters because I've been accidentally modeling this behavior for them now, too!😫
This is such powerful stuff!
I know it can be painful to realise we've been modeling trauma related behavior for our kids, but I've found that it's really healthy and healing for kids to have their parents openly talk about their less than healthy behaviors and be openly working to improve them. Like, I think my step daughter may have actually benefited more from me being like that than of i had just been 100% healthy, because she got to see that it's normal to look at our own behavior and how it impacts others, and makes efforts to change. Like, a simple example would be a time I got very impatient with her, then I stopped and just said to her, "Oh gosh! I'm sorry. I may be impatient, but it's not ok that I spoke to you that way. I love you and I want to be gentle with you. I think what I need is just a few minutes of quiet time to calm down so that I can be nicer again. Would you be ok with playing for 5 minutes by yourself while I make myself a cup of tea?" And also say, "I understand if you're feeling upset or angry at me. That's ok and it makes sense to be unhappy when somebody speaks to us in a way that feels bad."
(and offer her a hug if she wants, and maybe ask her if she wants to tell me how she's feeling)
Sorry for the long comment but I felt compassion reading your comment and hope you aren't being hard on yourself for being certain ways when you didn't know different options 💖
Seeing you realize you are making mistakes, course correct, and apply effort and determination to heal for the sake of yourself and everyone is an incredibly valuable thing to model.
They are going to have wounds and scars, maybe tiny ones, maybe bigger ones, but we all have them. But not all of us get the chance to see our caregivers recognize their scars and make hard efforts because they love us. Life is a learning pathway. Hugs and best wishes!
Practising staying in my own body and be open to feeling what I need and want and calmly, considerately express it, rather than abandoning myself in co-dependent over-care, uncertain whether my need/wish is reasonable or not, and wanting to be nice to ensure the continuation of the contact, by catering for their needs. I also tend to treat men as though they were (women) like myself: Very attentive to the other's need, especially if I he did sth for me.
Thanks for your perspective. I agree.
For so many years I kept silent about my desires. So once I gained some independence in my 20s I swung to being inconsiderate. I’ve realized now that it hasn’t brought me the results that I had hoped.
@Doomthepixarkid: sometimes you're screwed either way it seems.😊😊😊
How am I this old and just learning about CPTSD? My goodness, this changes everything. A lifetime of struggles explained so simply; now comes the hard part. It will be one thing to overcome this to create a healthy balance in my life, it will be quite another to not feel guilty about actually doing something for myself. This is devastating to me. It's not the things done to me, it is a lifetime of lost potential and not knowing why. I am having a hard time with that and wonder just who I really am. I'd like to meet him, he has been hiding all his life. I guess I have been waiting for someone to tell me it is safe to come out of my hiding closet, he is gone forever and is no longer a threat. Thank you Heidi for painting a very practical picture we can all see clearly. Let me tell you, it is on! I just needed to know, I cannot address what I do not understand. Time to take my life back, this is NOT over!
I've never heard fawning explained as well before as in this video. Thank you.
Me neither! I always thought it was like flirting, because I have heard the term used differently, in that context. This makes much more sense, without the demeaning connotation.
This is so insightful. I've definitely fawned. I've also been told I'm "too nice" because I refused to be rude and demanding.
I’ve just turned 39 and figuring this stuff out - thanks Heidi! I’ve got some topics to discuss with my therapist
66 here, better late than never. 😊
I want to thank you so much for bringing up that while we’re responsible for our own emotions, that doesn’t give us the right to block, “call out,” ignore or shun another person, especially a so-called friend! So many people just decide someone’s all bad and overuse that block button, overuse the term “psychic vampire” and just discard a relationship like trash. Communication seems to be becoming a lost art and that is very sad. Personally, when I tell someone they’ve hurt me and why or that at the very least, I FEEL hurt as a result of their actions, I often get the response, “That is on YOU.” And, “You are responsible for your own happiness and self-worth.” Which, to an extent, I agree. But say everyone dismissed and rejected a highly confident person. I feel like the constant negativity of others would eventually chip away at that person’s self-esteem. So I don’t like this new way of thinking that we are in no way responsible for other people’s feelings. I find it selfish and rude and I really appreciate your calling that out in this video. Do you have a video on this topic specifically? Thanks for your content, I’m really learning from your videos!
We co-create the relationship so it’s not all on the individual to own it all the time.
Yes! This all the way!!! This has been on my mind for years. My family has been calling me really negative lately after being devastated by friends who constantly were inconsiderate to me and left me feeling super gaslit about the whole situation. I eventually parted ways with many of them because I knew in my heart we probably couldnt reconcile the situation without me being considered clingy or them having resentment for expressing my needs. Relationships are a two way street and feeling like you're walking on eggshells is never a good sign.
My mother was a psychopathic narcissist. She taught us the fawn response and demanded it whenever she made a "request" of us. She wasn't satisfied with obedience; she wanted the reassurance of obedience PLUS mutual agreement. I think my brothers and I were pretty much aware of this two-fold demand. And we kind of acknowledged her conditions, while being aware we were not being asked our preference. I think the three brothers were aware of compliance, but because of the strength of each others' role in the family - golden child, scapegoat, and lost child - which roles we had NOT figured out at the time, we complied with the whole fawning response routine. My oldest brother, as a feature of his role as the Golden Child, was also required to stand by her when a REQUEST was made, and to strike out at my scapegoat brother or me who might be independent enough to question such a request.
So sorry you all had to suffer through that. It warms my heart that at least you've reached a certain amount of clarity, enough that you can share a bit which might help others. Best wishes towards total health, if we can dare to dream so boldly. :)
Chronic fawner here, I just thought I was being submissive and agreeable. But it does certainly bottle up. I’m sure my body diffuses some of that energy but occasionally I do swing the pendulum!
Thank you for this video. I agree 1000%. I'd add that that there seems to be this idea that either everyone has to be friends or you hate each other and are enemies. There's a middle ground known as peaceable coexistence. Not everyone is going to like you, but you CAN exist in the same space or even work together and not be at war.
It is so challenging to break this response. Often, I don’t recognize that I am doing it until I look back later. Thank you for sharing you kindness, compassion, and wisdom. ❤❤❤
Thank you for all of your videos. Very clear. Very helpful. Very simple. Appreciate you.
It fauned on me as I was watching that it was this particular perspective/description that I was searching for in differentiating between "PP & C-D".
Huge reconciliation!
Thank you for shining bright!
What do the initials stand for? Sorry…not familiar.
Another super clear and helpful video. Thanks, Heidi. Love the way you've explained the middle ground and that it's human and respectful to ask people what they need.
Therapist mentioned codependency like the codependency no more book type. Due to mental illness in a parent. But this makes sense too. I feel it was enlightening as well and provided reassurance on actions steps for both. Extremes and how not to fall into them.
So, I would say that fawning, like fighting, is a response that is reserved to social stressors, where no escape or distance is possible, while flight and freeze can be responses to environmental, non-social threats aswell.
❤ I have learned you can’t fix potential and I stand on that
OMG!!! The dinner conversation is exactly what I go through when we are trying to go out as a family. My son has a strong fawning response and I feel awful about it. Thank you for explaining this and for approaches to address it.
Recently learning there was a word for this has been so helpful. The amount of shame and self gaslighting I’ve done around this has been immense. I go into a fawn response when someone asks for anything. I had to start treating the word “help” as a four letter word. That was my first boundary to stop doing this. Another was learning that I’m aloud to change my mind, and I don’t have to explain myself. I grew up super poor in a narcissistic family system. It explains how I got here, but trying to heal and be better has been a life pursuit. I’m a self employed carpenter, I’ve been basically working for free for a couple decades because of this and have no real sense of my self worth. Most of my life I have been punished for asking or stating my needs because I managed to surround myself with all manner of narcs apparently from being groomed by them from birth. As I continue to learn I also realize that I fawn in their presence in general if I’m not keeping up on my grounding and meditation. If I fawn I spend so much time ruminating on, why did I say that, why did I agree to such a thing, why on earth would I offer to do such a thing? What the f is wrong with me?
I always hate it when people around calling me a kind or an easy going person. It just it didn’t feel right I never felt like I’m kind, but also didn’t know what I was doing exactly. Now I know that I was fawning all the time
Once again you have proven to give us exceptionally good advice. I think this is one of the problems we ENFPs have the most, we want so much to make others feel good that we consciously or unconsciously harm ourselves. It happened to me many times that I spent more time helping others than helping myself, in a way that was not very sustainable for me.
The best thing to do is to realize this as soon as possible and also start realizing that things have to be balanced. The advice you have given is excellent and it is perfectly possible to say "No" without being an ungrateful or unpleasant person.
sustainability - key point
I have just realized I do this all the time. Inhave no idea what I want… I am also learning about the C-PTSD and Trauma I have (as a Fearful-Avoidant)… OMG… This is very hard to realize. I am currently looking for a therapist… I do need help. Even though its causing a very negative and gross feeling inside…
Thank you Heidi, you videos finally made me hear this… in a way that it has finally promoted something inside of me to get help and go deeper…🙏🏼🌷
Ah!! This is such helpful information!! I've historically thought I was "to nice" and need to be "more of an ass hole" because I was always doing what others wanted instead of what I wanted. But something always didn't seem to add up, how can being less nice to people help anyone? Now I see the difference between niceness and fawning. Thank you.
I'm trying to think before fawning - what am I frightened of, that I am defending myself by burying my needs? That the person wont like it - that's fine, they dont have to like everything about me. That the relationship will break down - it wasnt right in the first place if they respect my needs so little. It's highly unlikely that there is a physical danger to stating your needs (although if there is then escape quick), even if someone is angry about it. They can be angry, that is their emotion to deal with. Once they calm, then there can be a discussion. I'm also working on only saying sorry when I have genuinely messed up, rather than just to placate the other person. But it is hard after a life of doing it.
Wow same. Unnecessarily Apologizing is honestly the worse
@@Datb2physical violence is worse than overly apologizing
Super helpful for reconditioning. Also helpful to put my finger on a colleague's "emotional libertarianism" behavior. Thank you.
Each day I get more signs that my calling is to leverage off my pain and healing, follow my calling (despite at age 44 having no uni qualifications, but a lifetime of reading and selfwork) to follow your lead and do this work, maybe start my own channel to spread the good work. You are been the single most influential and helpful resource to date and I want more than anything to help people the way you have helped and inspired me.
It took me a lifetime of experience, reading, and working on myself and, at 42, I now have one more year of uni before I have a psychology and neurobiology degree! I already have a Chemical Dependency certification, and am doing patient advocacy in mental health and addiction treatment systems! I love it! Personally, it’s something I’ve been through before. Therefore, I really understand that individuals have specific needs and treatment styles they respond to. I’m sure your reading and experience has left you with insight into something, or things, you are passionate about. I told my counselor, “If I go to university at 41, I’ll be 45 when I finish.” She asked, “How old will you be in 4 years, if you don’t go to school?” That is the wisest, most helpful advice I have ever received! It took me a year to get funds and get accepted, but I have a career now. Keep your resolve…you can do it! Whether you will need further education or not to fulfill your dreams, don’t let anything stop you. We do learn a tremendous amount by living. ❤
@@sciencenotstigma9534Amazing! Thanks for much for responding. I totally agree with you. Funnily enough your reply reads like I could have written it to someone is this situation... hahaha ENFP? 😆 After realising the 30 + hours a week I spend on my self education, is a workload similar to 2 uni papers a semester, I've decided to sit in ny knowledge and understand that instead of doing a BA in Pysch, with a bunch of mandatory papers, I've done in incredibly intense deep dive of specialist study into areas that mean, I most likely have a broader and more specific understanding of my special interest areas. Making me an SME whether or not I have a degree, plus lived experience. So I'm going to claim that and work with what I've got, which is an awful lot. I'm going to do the Gabor Mate Compassionate Enquiry self study course and build my skills selectively and strategically ❤️ All the best of your degree and your new career! Reach for the stars 🌟 then shake them a little 😄 and a little sprinkle star dust on the world 🌎 ✨️ 🎶 ♥️
I'm 33 and just learning about this. Raised by a somewhat authoritarian mother. Thank you Heidi, this and your other videos have been incredibly enlightening.
OMG, hahaha, that comment about the North American school system is the BEST!!!! We need more of the type of commentary that ties these types of pathologies to bigger systems and structures and societal forces, these days!
I struggle so much with this response. Freeze is a problem too.
I'm a frequent fawner, as a 21M, it's been difficult to navigate but I appreciate this video for shedding light on the behavior. I was in a relationship a few years ago with someone who would get angry with me, & it was a cyclical routine of apologies and growing resentment. 1:1 with the description in this video. Since then I've organically set much more of my own boundaries, it has helped a lot, but I'll still put my head down in moments of weakness sometimes. it's a work in progress! Good content!
you're miles ahead of most 21M.
I run into this with my friend sometimes. Thanks for helping me to make sense of my life. Keep on bridging the gap, sister!
The problem is that a lot us “women” were never taught to set boundaries. I have finally learned to set boundaries.
Very helpful. Its so new that the don't care about what you want i need my ... And i will have it. Is one extreme on a spectrum. I fawn a lot. I fawn, resentment is growing, then i flip and i get me what i need. Usually i hide this too. So my needs are protected from being seen and taken advantage of. I try to learn feeling and saying my no. Guess what. I feel that threatened and overwhelmed that i forget to check in with the other person's needs.
But only when the relaitionship is one where i don't feel safe. When i feel threadened by the past boundary crossings that come up because the conflict never got not endet. What's pretty difficult with a fawn response. Plus I go numb at some point, i shift from fawning into disoziating freeze into functional freeze with some fawn response so... It's a learning and healing process to get connected to my needs at all. My needs made me feel as demanding to much as a kid what brought me in danger so. It have been necessary to fawn to stay connected with my caregivers and it have been so long where i had to suppress my needs that i started to dissociate to not always feel the pain that intense and to stay functioning.
As a person with disabilities, I can relate to this! I’m not sure what your situation is, but it sounds like you’re doing the best you can. When you’re threatened by people you depend on for your survival, it’s a normal response. If they can be replaced by someone more responsive to your needs, then it’s a good time to resist learned helplessness. If you don’t need someone who treats you poorly and can end that relationship safely, it’s not healthy to stay and fawn and dissociate. There are situations where it’s a bit more complicated, however. ❤
How do I become this emotionally mature and accountable?? I'm 44 and seemingly clueless. I lack the ability to become this self-aware, let alone communicate it to the other individual.
I’m watching this in 2024 because I recently discovered your channel. I had no idea that I was doing this, but I do it all the time. My mom used to do this and it drove me crazy. I can’t believe I’m doing it as well. I think your videos are brilliant. You totally hit the nail on the head about how we can ping-pong between fawning and then sometimes just expecting other people to meet our needs and not even thinking about how that impacts them. My friends often describe me as “too nice“, but I totally agree with you that there’s no such thing as too nice. Now it’s clear to me. And I have a bad habit of doing things for people and then turning resentful after I realize I didn’t really want to do it. It’s not their fault! Thank you for pointing that out to me. I really appreciate your videos and I also appreciate your willingness to be vulnerable with us. Thank you so much, Heidi! You’re a treasure.💕
You actually made me wonder about something I was asked to do two days ago, and question myself if I was fawning to please someone I like and I'm getting to know now, or if it was genuine. I've had a fawning response in the past, based upon a childhood issue, and very, very recently just got taken for granted to a scale that costed me my whole social group for saying "no, this is not fair to me" for maybe the first time with those people. As you can imagine, I'm a bit wary about going into the same patterning again.
But, to be honest, what this person asked me to do is actually something I enjoy doing, I'm flattered to be asked to take part into something this important (I'm just entering their social group), and I do enjoy contributing to things. So I think not fawning this time!
Thanks for the clarification! I am a fawner, burned in me for surviving, and have trouble now that I am out of this situation. I couldn't quite pinpoint my problem tho for a while. Your video helped in giving me proper words and contextualising what I do more
Omg Heidi it feels like every one of your recent videos has been Taylor made for what I'm going through real time! Do you have a fly on my wall?! Please know your process and work is having immediate real life impact on my situation and (sadly) self guided work and giving me insight and guidance I can find no other place! Thanking you and most grateful for your wisdom and authenticity every day.
This was extremely difficult for me to watch because I have been fawning all my life. I am truly thankful for the way you are helping me despite it being painful to go on this journey 😢
wow, i really needed this this week more than ever. i never knew the terminology for this patterning, so thank you for clearing that up and distinguishing it so thoroughly! never heard of fawning and it's nice to now know how to navigate the highest possible harmony for all my relationships. i also really appreciate you providing actual actionable steps and 'how-to's, if you will, in order to put your education on these topics into practice within our lives.
hope you're having a very pleasant day!
Please can you do more of these social skill/self awareness videos there amazing and have helped me so much ❤️ ♥️ 💖 💜
You have just unencrypted something on a magnitude way beyond interpersonal dynamics. Thank you.
I am first hearing about fawning from your video. And I do it so often that it's painful emotionally. I realized my people pleasing/codependent nature perhaps a year ago. But I just discovered your channel and am already picking up new insights to myself. I appreciate the steps you provided. I'm gonna try my best to ask myself how I would act if I were alone before responding. I especially have a knee jerk reaction to say sorry hopefully I can apply these themes to that tendency.
❤ Thank you.. Thank you!!! This brings me Some Sanity and Humanity to combining Freeze, Fawn, Enmeshment, Lack of Identity, Detachment (a step out of unbearable zombie land). This has Sooooo given me hope. ❤❤❤
What's also wild is that for years I would constantly almost push and ask people what they wanted ask them to tell me, especially in relationships only to realize years later that I wasn't clearly asking for what I wanted in multiple romantic relationships and friendships, either. And I still struggle to ask for what I want directly. I struggle to acknowledge my own agency and responsibility. It's devastating, really, to be so far back inside your own head and closed off from your own wants and needs. It's wild how I expected people to do things I didn't really know how to do myself. I just pretended.
I have never been a fawner. I'm more of a flight or fighter. I really like the way you explain things and I will be sharing this video with a friend who may find it helpful (highly doubt they will watch though but I can try). This just sounds like a great video that could go into a compilation on how to help an anxious person learn confidence with social skills!
I feel like I always stumble upon one of your videos when I need it the most, thank you for the content!!
I realize these days I fawn. This was a good video. I gotta be better about being in the middle ground and considering my wants and needs, as well as others. I still catch myself fawning too much, and it does show in resentments.
Loving these videos. Super helpful! You probably have ZERO control over this, but the Epoch Times is advertising on your videos, which is unfortunate.
Wow, it’s shocking to learn that I’ve been fawning for 29 years. What a blessing this video is!! Awareness is the key to change 🙌
We appreciate you creating this insightful, helpful, compassionate content, Heidi.
When we are too nice, this allow people to take advantage of us because those too nice do not know how to discern between healthy strangers and dangerous strangers. 😮
💯
Thank you this is soooo true never had the words to describe it 👍👍
Another great video, Heidi. Definitely new to fawn response recovery.
My only contribution is that I think the word “nice” may be beyond redemption, and is too loaded with people-pleasing connotations to ever again be something to aspire to. “Kind” and “considerate” are the ones for me.
Heidi, I absolutely love everything about this message. THANK YOU!
I love this- It is not nice to not make your wants & needs clear.
I am learning to avoid extremes. Being able to use discernment in each situation and at the same time owning up to who I am with self respect. It's a balancing act. Good video.
I didn't know!?! Learned from Dr. Gaber Mate, being nice all the time is a trauma response, but to explain it's fawning took my understanding to a whole new level. Also, you explained my responsibility in understanding and communicating my needs and wants. Wow, I needed that! Thanks Heidi😊
🙌🏾 thank you for this! I am definitely going to do more reading about this! I often referred to it as people pleasing. I had no idea this was an actual response state. I’ve done this majority of my life. I actually finally come to the realization in my life that this is probably why I don’t have many genuine healthy relationships 😢! But it’s something I am definitely working through this year!!
We are expected to put the other's needs before our own, usually the other won't take advantage over your kindness, & ordinarily the kind one will pull out from being used, for me going so slow now has been detrimental in many ways cause I'm not quick to recognize being used, & responding appropriately..
Very clearly explained. From definition to how to catch oneself .
Thank you!!!
I used to use the word 'placate', as thats what i saw my mother do with my step-father growing up, now i know it as 'fawning' and it all makes much more sense. Down to why sometimes i dont feel like a full person. Duh, i put myself on the backburner most of my life! After my mom passed almost 2 yrs ago, i swore off ever placating again. Tho...I suppose my villain stage of being inconsiderate may have to be over now 😅. I'm no fan of emotional libertarianism.
Thank you for giving the examples of fawning vs. inconsiderate vs. kind. It is immensely helpful to have those examples!
Thank you Heidi - this has been long on my list and I have been learning to stay focused while fawning and interrupt that pattern. What I have learned is; that due to all the fawning, many people assumed (or were conditioned by me lol) that I am more of a listener. And when I am now voicing my opinions and so on, I realize that people interrupt me pretty often. Its still triggering to me, because of emotional neglect as a kid; I always feel the pain that my opinion doesnt matter. I still need to learn to be more assertive in those moments and at least say sth. along the lines of "hey..please let me finish my thoughts on that matter; I dont feel respected when you interrupt me all the time"
Needed this - I had no idea about fawning
Thank you for the clear delineation of these behaviors. 😃❤🙏✌
I needed this. I often say no to a friend who's always there for me and I'm, sometimes, rude.
Such great explanations in your videos with clear examples, compassion and practical tips. Thank you 😊
I recently discovered this channel. Heidi you are such a great teacher. Your insights are helping me understand myself and my loved ones and the world around me. I’m in the recovery process from abuse in childhood and in my adult life. I still have triggers but I’m learning how to get through them better and heal the root cause. This video was PERFECT for me. Thanks for so generously sharing your wisdom and knowledge with the world. This knowledge needs to be common so that we can live in a much more peaceful and harmonious world!
I just found your channel and I think you’re awesome! Thank you for your content. ❤
What an enlightening video. Thank you.
Very informative and concise! Thank you!
The first kindness is listening to others' opinions. I used to take the floor to much with my neurosis and admittedly bad stuff happening. I have to listen well by telling myself that even people I don't agree with have a psychological or spiritual message worth listening to. I have to take every discussion with a spiritual angle.
I was just recently in a situation where after it was over I could look back in hindsight trying to find where it went wrong and I got to a point of understanding where I told myself I know i wasn't being too nice but I was being nice in an inappropriate way and now I know there's a word for it. Thanks for that
I love this distinction and concept. It makes me think of situations in which I've been on either end of that response. It's often joked how someone needs to take charge and make a decision, but that never sat right with me either. An ability to build consensus takes communication and maybe that's the part friends can be a in a rush to skip over because it can be uncomfortable/because they might not know how? I wonder. I like the perspective of actually being nice needing to find that middle ground. Learning to model it and also to cultivate it in others for better outcomes and relationships, this is really cool.
This was really good. i had a habit of fawning and going along with whatever the person wanted, now I am doing a good job of speaking up, stating what I want. i like the example of asking myself, if this person wasn't here, what would i want? pure perfection
I appreciate you demonstarating the healthy way of doing things. It can be incredibly confusing sometimes. I don’t know why it’s so hard to know what the right thing is 😂