As someone who agrees with the general take that HDZ is not the best recommendations for most new pilots without more context, there is one exception for those like me who live in a city... Tinywhoops. If you need to fly indoors often or don't have a lot of space to fly bigger drones, Analog and HDZero are really the only options (and I have really tried to fly DJI indoors. Just too big and heavy to really have fun).
Actually for the same reason I reccomended my friend HDzero because I knew he couldnt take analog image quality, but I knew if he was crashing alot the lighter the better for tinywhoops. He loves the Mob6 Eco he has and its still on all original parts. I have yet to see a walksnail or dji whoop that is easy to fly inside, durable and comes in a BNF configuration.
@@AnAnAsbAnAnAshAkAr that "kind of" is why I did not mention it. The HDZ AIO and the Eco are the only two that do not compromise the handling and flight characteristics of a 65mm 1s. The HDZ whoop lite and Avatar 1s are like 25%+ of the weight of an average whoop, that would be like flying a 1kg 5inch
Just pointing out because this wasn't obvious to me. All the Whoop cameras only do 720p60. While the HD Zero goggles are nice, they're not needed. Both the Emax box goggles and the VRX support 720p60. Considering HD Zero goggles + analog will easily cost $700+, you're not missing out on much by going with less expensive analog goggles + VRX like skyzone Cobra X or 04O pro.
@@itsjase92 as a Walksnail 75 an 85mm whoop flyer they fly much better on HDZERO and analogue but the weight and flight time you give up is worth the digital video
Thats if the board doesnt break down after your third flight. The main reason why I waited to see DJIs new 04 drop was to see if they were coming out with a lite version, and they did. My hdzero 65mms, 75, and 2 inchers rip and love them. I up the vtx to 400mw and i literally can fly a mile away with good quality and thats all I need on my micros and 3 inch. Its amazing to me how much better the digital does it and I respect that.
I started on HDZ. I don't race, but I'm a latency snob (i hated variable bitrate mp3's), I tried walksnail and it was almost unflyable for me. Granted, the picture was better, but I hand to fly slower and more careful on that system. I love my 2in 2s hdz.
He.. kinda missed the point of what I said and gaslighted one part of it though. See my reply above. I was saying that range/penetration/resolution should not be the primary focus of a newcomer, and if it is, we should change that focus, or tell them to buy a DJI at best buy.
I am a beginner who chose HDZero as my first pair of goggles. I totally agree here. One of the first things I noticed was how bad the range and penetration was. I bought the avada 2 not long after and was like “this is how video transmission should be in 2024…” I will say, I love HDZero though and I’m quite happy to have it. As a huge gamer, latency has always been a big deal for me and I can REALLY feel the difference between DJI and HDZero. I quite enjoy having both now (especially with the O4 release to use with my goggles 3), and I think it’s the perfect combination. I feel like I can do any kind of flying I want now. The HDZero capability to also run analog with the module was also huge for me as a beginner. Good way to buy once cry once on the goggles but then have sooooo many options for drones in both HDZero and analog.
Location should also be mentioned. As a whoop guy and back yard flyer, I love HDZ and analog. I added the WS vrx to my HDZ goggles and it was definitely worth it for park flying. That latency thing is real, I'm not good enough to adapt quickly like top pilots. So the micros are mostly HDZ and 3-5in are on WS. Chicago-land is not weather friendly and so there aren't many days I can make it to the park after work. But the basement (man cave) is always open for use. Onboard 4k recording would be nice. DJI build a vrx. Or WS catch up to DJI.
You missed my point about why I criticized your view. New FPV pilots SHOULD NOT focus on range, penetration, or resolution as their primary concern. There's no arguing that HD-Zero is occasionally worse for range and penetration, (although I would argue it's better for reflections & interference over analog), but telling beginners that this actually matters to anyone except bando flyers, long range pilots, and occasional park flyers, is misrepresenting our hobby to newcomers. THAT was my point. Most beginners buy a tiny whoop, or a 2/3" and fly around their house and close by. They SHOULD NOT be flying far enough where HD-Zero's downside is seen in most cases, and they'd only get the up side until then. Plus, the HD-Zero goggles is arguably the most versatile goggle set out there if they DO want to try walksnail or analog. So, change their point of view, and wind up supporting a company (Divimath & HD-Zero) who listens to and helps our hobby in the process. On another note, I've enjoyed your stuff for years and years. I'm sorry our first interaction had to be an argument. I wish I could respect your reasons for saying what you did, but newcomers flying bandos and long range is just not a use case I see often.
I would still recommend any beginner to analog. HDZero goggles are too expensive and even their vtx & cams are expensive for people living in middle eastern and Asian countries.
As a non-racing DJI pilot, I find myself picking up HDZ way more now… but JB is right, without coming into the hobby with DJI I doubt I would have stuck with it and gone so far into FPV and wanted to see what I was missing with other systems later on.
HDZero are really expensive too. $600 plus antennas seems expensive for a beginner (and a non-beginner for that matter). During xmas when they had 100 off I wanted to get HDZero goggles but didn't have the money. A week later I did have the money and asked if I could still get the discount and they said no. I has explained the situation in my request. I ended up getting Skyzone 04X Pro.
Joshua, as always, good advice. I would add in HDZero's favor, their excellent backward and forward compatibility, particularly when compared to DJI. And, not on the technical side, but HDZero is a USA company. Dave Messina
I started a few months ago with analog and tiny whoops. I thing analog will get you to put your hands in the mud a little more than the rest, due to the extensive choices and you can break or lose it. No stress. Bash...bash..baaaaaaash until you speed 40cm from the ground at 70km/h without even changing altitude in hard turns and place a necessary S-loop to get into an horizontal hole....And noooooow you are ready for biggest and better. I think DJI is a spoiler, you should take time to enjoy the grind.
I agree, and another angle on this topic is like in my case, I want to start the hobby by getting second hand gears such as goggles and controllers first then getting a drone. And on the second hand market, it seems much easier to get a DJI goggles to start, than trying to get an HDZero goggle.
It certainly doesn't measure up in range and penetration - and the cost for the full "Swiss army knife" goggle setup to add analog and walksnail to the hdz goggle is a bit dear. But flying three of the 4 systems on a single goggle is quite nice.
It can be nice, but I find there’s enough overlap you can be covered by 2 systems. There’s also other downsides like the extra bulk and weight it adds to the goggles. I think they’re pretty much only worth getting if you’re really into HD Zero.
Bardwell is right. My first ever FPV was the Avata 2. Blew my mind at the time. Now I barely touch it compared to my other drones. I have everything except walksnail and I love them all but if the experience with DJI and the Avata 2 wasn't so fun I would have never made it to this point
This is why it's good that Bardwell still says that everyone should ultimately decide for themselves. I happen to disagree slightly with his "supporting the hobby" stance. Part of my reason for choosing HDZero wasn't because they support the hobby, rather because everything I knew or read about DJI and Walksnail's behaviours and business practices turned me off to giving them any of my money. I might care less if their products were superior in every way to HDZero, but they aren't. HDZero does business better. Plus HDZero's products are partly open-source, which I know from past experiences with other products, that would eventually support me as a customer.
Same. Loved the open source of hdzero and the future of it. Walksnail has issues with the longevity and life of their electronics which turned me away, and I didnt like the closed source nature of DJI. Hdzero was the perfect middle for me. Not gonna say I just didnt buy a pair of G3s and an 04 unit lite though 😅. Looks promising.
I fly dji on anything 3” and over and needed some new analog goggles as I only had the quanum box goggle I started with and really enjoy flying whoops so went the extra and bought the hdzero goggles in the sale before the holidays ..loving the goggles and the 1s hdzero aio as it fits perfectly for that need 🙃
I think the FPV community as a whole needs to just encourage people to start out with analog. I feel as if there are no downsides if you are a noob to FPV to start with analog, you are more likely to learn quickly, and spend less money repairing, and you'll always have some kind of analog whoop, or whatever to fall back on when you upgrade to digital and realize you're not quite ready to hit a certain gap and you just want a basher to test the waters. I see a lot of new people jumping in full digital and getting a bad experience because the FPV hobby is so complex and you have to approach it slowly and steadily.
If a friend asks me where to start, I always hand them a line of sight eachine whoop and tell them to learn how to fly an entire pack without crashing, then spend 20$ and add a camera to it, make them solder it themselves, then get a OTG phone receiver and maybe a phone VR google cardboard thingy. Usually by that point they have already figured out what route they want to go, and they've only spent like $60
Thanks for Answering my question, I was not able to stay for the live steam to see it. Latency is a big thing for me and I enjoy freestyle the most, have been dabbling into racing in Liftoff and Liftoff Micro Drones and have been getting the Itch to do it more. I think going into HDZero is for me despite the issues. The other goggles I was looking at on the cheaper end was the Sky Zone 040 Pro.
I started with HDO2 goggles for the first two years, then went with the HDZ goggles to begin dabbling into digital. I now happily still use analog on the HDZ goggles, as well as HDZ and walksnail through their vrx. All three systems on the one goggle. To me it's more of a question of: do you want to go with DJI, or everything excluding DJI.
This is my take on it, HDZero is Linux and will last for years, like Analog, the goggles wil not need to be upgraded every 2-3 years for the latest vtx. but they are 200+ more than analog. Also HDZero penitration is lower that the competition but does have AIO boards for 1s whoops , Walksnail is not much better for range and has poor quality control so expect bad parts delivered. Walksnail have VTX's in all sizes apart from AIO , DJI have best penitration but expect you to buy a new goggle every 2-3 years to stay connected to newest VTX's although they now have a lite VTX for 2s whoops. in all cases once you are into the hobby $$$$
Is the underlying architecture of the Divimath chipset that powers HDZ systems still the same chip set they have been using since 2017-2018. Are they now on a gen 2 system or is it just tweaks on the same gen 1 hardware? Unless there is something I missed, it looks like HDZ has just been tweaking the same tech for almost 8yrs with no significant jumps to what you could call a gen 2 system.
As a new drone hobbyist who went with HDZero I feel that Bardwell is right to make this recommendation. I'm happy with my choice but I did my research and knew that if I wanted a better experience for most of my flying besides racing I'd have to do something like grab a walksnail vrx. I'm fine with that but it's not realistic to expect most new users to shell out a big pile of cash just to get the experience they should have from the start.
My opinion is that the best freestyle, racing or bando drone for a BEGINNER is a ready to fly Analog kit. Why? It just works out of the box and it is cost effective. Then, once they've learned the basics, they can then decide what kind of flying suits them best and get better goggles etc. Then choosing the right digital system won't be overwhelming. Digital systems aren't plug and play. There's a lot more steps than an analog RTF kit. Unfortunately, I've seen a few videos lately by influencers talking down HDZero. Not sure why, but it is unnecessary.
Any company that sells drone stuff to consumers supports the hobby. In regards to picking HD systems this is how I see it. DJI Best Video Quality / higher cost WS lowest cost / fragile "I get better range/pen than DJI O3's not sure about O4's .... yet" HDZ lowest latency / lowest video quality OpenIPC ....... needs a lot of work
Went with it bc your versitle comments a few months back. I hope it will last a few generations due to the hdmi input and output. Guess we will see lol, range is LOS any how right😅.
Yall need to realize that every non racer GOAT in the industry, even some of the racers(Vannover) ALL prefer to fly on DJI most of the time. There’s a reason.
I totally agree that HDZero is not a good choice for most beginners unless their main use case is racing. Yes 4ms latency is extremely good and beneficial for freestyle but the vast majority of people will think that the additional range and penetration that DJI and Walksnail are offering is a better trade off even if the latency jumps to 25ms.
@@JeanFrancoisPoulin1 With the o4 "lite" you could get away with a 2s 85mm tiny whoop but it wouldn't really be a great indoor whoop if that's what you're looking for. I went with both hdzero (using a vrx on analog goggles) and dji to cover all bases. If they come out with a 1s o4 tinywhoop it's going to fly like a brick.
As someone getting into the research faze and diving heavily into SIMS. I was leaned towards HDZero for better video but also the ability to try and racs on occasion. What ability is there to race with DJI or Walksnail? I thought they arent allowed at MultiGP events or most any local ones for interference.
For o3 and older DJI air units they aren't great for racing for a number of reason. I have an o3 and I wouldn't try to race it due to signal interference with other pilots/race gates and latency. Apparently the new o4 has a race mode that fixes some of this but I haven't tried it. It also depends what you are racing. If you are racing tinywhoops then hdzero is still the best option no question due to the weight which is so important on micros. But on larger quads the o4 "might" make racing more viable on DJI. Walksnail also has a similar racing mode.
@Arbi5577 thanks for responding. Would walksnail be allowed then? Or in my situation of just wanting to build one quad to still go with hdzero and just deal with the downsides? Originally was going to go walksnail but recently through watching and diving I started leaning into hdzero. I wouldn't say money isn't an option but the 100 dollar difference for a one time investment compared to saving that money and having to build/repair two quads isn't worth it in my mind.
Bad take.I started DJI and instantly regretted it after trying to show up to my first race due to people making recommendations. I didnt know racing was how I wanted to interact with the hobby until I did it. Im an odd ball and just bought all systems then. I daily reach for hdzero over DJI most of the time but enjoy them both. Im not sponsored or a fan boy. Taking into account whoops being the entry point for most beginners is a miss as well where hdzero is king.
That's a very interesting opinion. I will say I personally haven't lost video at 500 feet behind a tree. The total image will degrade of course. Overall alot of these opinions kind of mask the fact that all of these video systems have a "weakness" and it's not just dji has infinite range and penetration like call of duty. Or walksnail. They have their crutches. My opinion. If you are new. Analog is a kind entry into the hobby. But everyone's miles may vary
I'm hearing that Caddx is coming out with some new digital VTX/camera offerings at analog prices. But don't let that hold you back. Get an analog rig, and a cheap headbox; learn the basics and go from there. The hobby's still sorting itself out. No matter what you choose, it's gonna cost you over the long haul, so get used to it. The trick is to not jump at every new innovation with the expectation that it'll make things better. Wait a few months to see what others have to say - and for the firmware fixes to get released.
Im new in fpv, and i started with HDzero goggles, i tried dji avata 2 in china for test in the shop, and i don't like it. So i bought hdz for cruise aroud me, i build speedy for it on hdz, but before i bought gepcr t-cube18 on hdz, and i like it, and now i build long range 13 inch drone(now its on analog and i use analog module on my goggles) later will be on freestyle v2. And i like option that later i can add walksnail. So i think for me as beginner i use HDZ.
I guess its about using the right tool for the job. HDZ needs a better range & pen. DJI needs lower latency. 2025 will be a big year for modifications and workarounds.
I chose walksnail as my system, as I could not stand DJI's crappy behaviour. It was not because of supporting or whatever, I wanted good video system. It had it's issues. I would say it's almost perfect now. I have 7 drones currently with WS system. I believe I'm supporting the hobby :)
This is helpful to help me make my own decision. I have a bunch of analog gear, and fatshark box goggles, which I'm growing to hate. They receive terribly compared to a separate, simple diversity receiver I use to DVR my flights. Since I have a big investment in Analog gear already and want new goggles, I've considered HDZERO for my transition. Given that Josuha uses HDZERO as analog goggles, and that they would give me an opportunity to dabble in digital, they may be the right choice for me. I'm probably more interested in range than anything else, but I could put hdzero digital on quads I play freestyle with, and use my existing analog gear for range, when needed. That would beat buying two different sets of goggles.
I have yet to meet someone who regrets purchasing the HD-Zero goggles. I see plenty of DJI goggles being sold by pilots after they do. You do you. Joshua's point of view is only one of many in this hobby.
I feel like the range is fine for a begginer on HDZ. Penetration is a bit diff scenario though if they end up getting lost or something. You cant beat the N3 or Goggles L and a vision 40 for the price of the hdzero goggles though. A great begginer experience of digital at great price point to experience it all. I do think bardwell went a little too hard on HDZ for its range and penetration while not giving enough brownie points for its versatility and handling basically all the systems at great functionality aside from DJI.
S.O.B...literally just cleared my Hdzero goggles and mobula6 thru customs today...🤦♂️🤷♂️ last time i listen to anyone...just buy and fly whatever tf you want at this point. These guys go back and forth w their recommendations 😆😆
Hd zero and micro's are awesome, JB is correct if you want to fly 3.5 or bigger quads. There is a strong argument for learning with micros, you will get more flight time and everything is harder to break and cheaper to fix. If you want the feel of a larger quad build a 3" toothpick
I'm a freestyle pilot, and I do love the low latency, and the type of breakup image. I'm flying analogue but looking for trying digital system, And I really want to get and love HDzero, but, when I compare the range and penetration that people are getting with DJI or even Walksnail.... Do you think Walksnail VRX is worth it? paired with the 1st version of FATSHART HDo googles? or is the latency to high? I don't like the walksnail googles, DJI for sure is the best and now with the O4 on race mode, the latency is getting to the point i would risk go DJI, but the price of the googles... dammm .
Now this is why we love JB. Ive been watching every single stream in reverse chronological order, and I 1000% agree with this take even though I'm a hardcore HDZ pilot. At the end of the day, the noobs and casuals just want a few months of the best experience possible before they forget about the hobby altogether. Every time I fly DJI I wonder why I didn't go with it to begin with. Its beyond superior in almost every regard. Amd should be looked at as the minimum standard for 2025 tech. Then I look at all my gear, knowledge, and expectations and remember why I didn't buy into the mega corps products. But I'm 1 person, insignificant, and don't have any room to talk about opinions. (Though since the 04, he has been a bit shitty towards anything else, makes me wonder why??)
@vitamin350z Now I wouldn't go that far. It's not behind in any means, it's just a different system for people who care about different interests. I could care less about a mega corporations walled off development of an ecosystem even if it's superior in some things, lacking in others. I respect it, but don't find value in it's products like others might. But again, I'm 1 individual. Insignificant. JB is correct when he says it's not for beginners, I agree. Most people won't stay in this hobby longer than a few months, so let them enjoy the stuff they known nothing about and just have fun. If they grow out of it, then that's even better.
@vitamin350z I guess.... DJI definitely sets a "standard" but the real question is 'who's standard?' If you fly and need penetration, then its your standard. I typically don't. I'm racing in a field, or doing long-range on a cliffside, and/ or using analog. My HDZ system absolutely kills and is way more developed in everything about the parts of the hobby I enjoy tinkering with. That's all I'm saying. Honestly, I hate arguing about it because it's pointless. If I had more throw away money, you bet your ass id have a DJI setup just to enjoy the cinematic flight feel and picture in the goggles. I think the product is amazing. The company is shit, but it's the world we live in. I'll take what I can get before I stand against them for petty personal problems I have. HDZ isn't for everyone. But for the people who know.... know 😀
You can start with any system , they all have their good and bad side, DJI on the other hand is just better than the rest, but can you afford it, thats the important part, and learning the system you buy , is the other part. JB will square you away, just listen and learn, too easy.
if you don't get hd zero googles, you will always wonder what they like! personally they are my first per of googles. no regerts. but after buy them you realize everything they are saying ! hd zero googles are heavy compared to analog, sometime i wish i had a light weight pair of googles. hd zereo bad for range, any time you wanna fly long distant behind buildings and trees its analog, also curious how dji would go, but honestly don't think I'm missing out, image doesn't make a better piolet, it makes a better video
Damn I watched his review on HD zero and it really seemed like the googles to get, after watching this I’m wondering if I should return them and get something else.
If you plan to fly analog (i.e. cheaper whoops or buying used larger drones, which is a great choice for beginners), AND you are rich to not care about the price of the goggles+receiver module+adapter, the HDZ goggles are a great luxury item. Whether you need to use HDZ as the HD protocol is a separate question.
I must dissagree about better range and penetration in Walksnail system, compare to HDZERO. I try Avatar in autumn last year, and I was very dissapointment. Range is smaller, penetration weaker, latency is very feel vs HDZERO. Only image is definitely better in Avatar system. I started flying in 2016 with analog system on board. Maybe this is the reason why I like HDZERO regarding image quality. And I prefer HDZERO about "presentation of weak signal" vs digital FPV systems. DJI in my opinion, is also not perfect and sometimes consumers experience such unexpected problems (like cut off RX singal in last year). But for beginners maybe this is the best FPV system. Especialy with O4 Air Unit. But is expensive and not good tested for now. We don't know what potentialy problems may it be hidden. But this is only my private, maybe rash concerns.
When you first get into flying you are not going to tell the difference of the latency of the DJI versus HD 0 I personally could not tell the difference between latency until about a year and a half to two years into flying
So for the guy that starts with DJI then learns he wants to start racing. He now has to buy new goggles or never consider that route since DJI doesn’t support racing. New pilots will need to know this in their decision making as well.
As someone who agrees with the general take that HDZ is not the best recommendations for most new pilots without more context, there is one exception for those like me who live in a city... Tinywhoops. If you need to fly indoors often or don't have a lot of space to fly bigger drones, Analog and HDZero are really the only options (and I have really tried to fly DJI indoors. Just too big and heavy to really have fun).
Actually for the same reason I reccomended my friend HDzero because I knew he couldnt take analog image quality, but I knew if he was crashing alot the lighter the better for tinywhoops. He loves the Mob6 Eco he has and its still on all original parts. I have yet to see a walksnail or dji whoop that is easy to fly inside, durable and comes in a BNF configuration.
Not anymore, dji has a 04 system for whoops now and I hear it's pretty light. May not be as low than a hdz aio but idk for sure
Also Walksnail has kind of whoop compatible vtx, even lighter than O4 lite
@@AnAnAsbAnAnAshAkAr that "kind of" is why I did not mention it. The HDZ AIO and the Eco are the only two that do not compromise the handling and flight characteristics of a 65mm 1s. The HDZ whoop lite and Avatar 1s are like 25%+ of the weight of an average whoop, that would be like flying a 1kg 5inch
Just pointing out because this wasn't obvious to me. All the Whoop cameras only do 720p60. While the HD Zero goggles are nice, they're not needed. Both the Emax box goggles and the VRX support 720p60. Considering HD Zero goggles + analog will easily cost $700+, you're not missing out on much by going with less expensive analog goggles + VRX like skyzone Cobra X or 04O pro.
HDZero is also best for anyone that loves Tiny Whoops. Otherwise JB is spot on.
For 65mm yeah, but even for 75mm walksnail is light enough for most freestyle
@@itsjase92 as a Walksnail 75 an 85mm whoop flyer they fly much better on HDZERO and analogue but the weight and flight time you give up is worth the digital video
Thats if the board doesnt break down after your third flight. The main reason why I waited to see DJIs new 04 drop was to see if they were coming out with a lite version, and they did. My hdzero 65mms, 75, and 2 inchers rip and love them. I up the vtx to 400mw and i literally can fly a mile away with good quality and thats all I need on my micros and 3 inch. Its amazing to me how much better the digital does it and I respect that.
@ That's fair, I've already converted a 2s whoop to o4 and am just waiting for the new betafpv board to convert my 1s whoops
I started on HDZ. I don't race, but I'm a latency snob (i hated variable bitrate mp3's), I tried walksnail and it was almost unflyable for me. Granted, the picture was better, but I hand to fly slower and more careful on that system. I love my 2in 2s hdz.
i fly all systems interchangeably and have had 0 issues adjusting between the platforms..
@@warmfreezewell whooopdi do for you! 😂
I like the opinion. Didn't duck the question, had reasons, shared the reasons.
He.. kinda missed the point of what I said and gaslighted one part of it though. See my reply above. I was saying that range/penetration/resolution should not be the primary focus of a newcomer, and if it is, we should change that focus, or tell them to buy a DJI at best buy.
I am a beginner who chose HDZero as my first pair of goggles. I totally agree here. One of the first things I noticed was how bad the range and penetration was. I bought the avada 2 not long after and was like “this is how video transmission should be in 2024…”
I will say, I love HDZero though and I’m quite happy to have it. As a huge gamer, latency has always been a big deal for me and I can REALLY feel the difference between DJI and HDZero.
I quite enjoy having both now (especially with the O4 release to use with my goggles 3), and I think it’s the perfect combination. I feel like I can do any kind of flying I want now.
The HDZero capability to also run analog with the module was also huge for me as a beginner. Good way to buy once cry once on the goggles but then have sooooo many options for drones in both HDZero and analog.
Location should also be mentioned. As a whoop guy and back yard flyer, I love HDZ and analog. I added the WS vrx to my HDZ goggles and it was definitely worth it for park flying. That latency thing is real, I'm not good enough to adapt quickly like top pilots. So the micros are mostly HDZ and 3-5in are on WS. Chicago-land is not weather friendly and so there aren't many days I can make it to the park after work. But the basement (man cave) is always open for use. Onboard 4k recording would be nice. DJI build a vrx. Or WS catch up to DJI.
Joshua you help me and so many other support the hobby regardless of opinions, keep up the great work!!!
You missed my point about why I criticized your view. New FPV pilots SHOULD NOT focus on range, penetration, or resolution as their primary concern. There's no arguing that HD-Zero is occasionally worse for range and penetration, (although I would argue it's better for reflections & interference over analog), but telling beginners that this actually matters to anyone except bando flyers, long range pilots, and occasional park flyers, is misrepresenting our hobby to newcomers. THAT was my point. Most beginners buy a tiny whoop, or a 2/3" and fly around their house and close by. They SHOULD NOT be flying far enough where HD-Zero's downside is seen in most cases, and they'd only get the up side until then. Plus, the HD-Zero goggles is arguably the most versatile goggle set out there if they DO want to try walksnail or analog.
So, change their point of view, and wind up supporting a company (Divimath & HD-Zero) who listens to and helps our hobby in the process.
On another note, I've enjoyed your stuff for years and years. I'm sorry our first interaction had to be an argument. I wish I could respect your reasons for saying what you did, but newcomers flying bandos and long range is just not a use case I see often.
I would still recommend any beginner to analog. HDZero goggles are too expensive and even their vtx & cams are expensive for people living in middle eastern and Asian countries.
I honestly see where both of you are coming from. Really good discussion here
As a non-racing DJI pilot, I find myself picking up HDZ way more now… but JB is right, without coming into the hobby with DJI I doubt I would have stuck with it and gone so far into FPV and wanted to see what I was missing with other systems later on.
HDZero are really expensive too. $600 plus antennas seems expensive for a beginner (and a non-beginner for that matter). During xmas when they had 100 off I wanted to get HDZero goggles but didn't have the money. A week later I did have the money and asked if I could still get the discount and they said no. I has explained the situation in my request. I ended up getting Skyzone 04X Pro.
You got me into the hobby Joshua, and we appreciate your experienced views.
Joshua, as always, good advice. I would add in HDZero's favor, their excellent backward and forward compatibility, particularly when compared to DJI. And, not on the technical side, but HDZero is a USA company. Dave Messina
I started a few months ago with analog and tiny whoops. I thing analog will get you to put your hands in the mud a little more than the rest, due to the extensive choices and you can break or lose it. No stress. Bash...bash..baaaaaaash until you speed 40cm from the ground at 70km/h without even changing altitude in hard turns and place a necessary S-loop to get into an horizontal hole....And noooooow you are ready for biggest and better.
I think DJI is a spoiler, you should take time to enjoy the grind.
I agree, and another angle on this topic is like in my case, I want to start the hobby by getting second hand gears such as goggles and controllers first then getting a drone. And on the second hand market, it seems much easier to get a DJI goggles to start, than trying to get an HDZero goggle.
It certainly doesn't measure up in range and penetration - and the cost for the full "Swiss army knife" goggle setup to add analog and walksnail to the hdz goggle is a bit dear. But flying three of the 4 systems on a single goggle is quite nice.
It can be nice, but I find there’s enough overlap you can be covered by 2 systems. There’s also other downsides like the extra bulk and weight it adds to the goggles.
I think they’re pretty much only worth getting if you’re really into HD Zero.
Bardwell is right. My first ever FPV was the Avata 2. Blew my mind at the time. Now I barely touch it compared to my other drones. I have everything except walksnail and I love them all but if the experience with DJI and the Avata 2 wasn't so fun I would have never made it to this point
This is why it's good that Bardwell still says that everyone should ultimately decide for themselves. I happen to disagree slightly with his "supporting the hobby" stance. Part of my reason for choosing HDZero wasn't because they support the hobby, rather because everything I knew or read about DJI and Walksnail's behaviours and business practices turned me off to giving them any of my money. I might care less if their products were superior in every way to HDZero, but they aren't. HDZero does business better. Plus HDZero's products are partly open-source, which I know from past experiences with other products, that would eventually support me as a customer.
Same. Loved the open source of hdzero and the future of it. Walksnail has issues with the longevity and life of their electronics which turned me away, and I didnt like the closed source nature of DJI. Hdzero was the perfect middle for me. Not gonna say I just didnt buy a pair of G3s and an 04 unit lite though 😅. Looks promising.
BTW this hobby IS COOOL... and also an incredible rabbit hole!!
I fly dji on anything 3” and over and needed some new analog goggles as I only had the quanum box goggle I started with and really enjoy flying whoops so went the extra and bought the hdzero goggles in the sale before the holidays ..loving the goggles and the 1s hdzero aio as it fits perfectly for that need 🙃
I think the FPV community as a whole needs to just encourage people to start out with analog. I feel as if there are no downsides if you are a noob to FPV to start with analog, you are more likely to learn quickly, and spend less money repairing, and you'll always have some kind of analog whoop, or whatever to fall back on when you upgrade to digital and realize you're not quite ready to hit a certain gap and you just want a basher to test the waters. I see a lot of new people jumping in full digital and getting a bad experience because the FPV hobby is so complex and you have to approach it slowly and steadily.
If a friend asks me where to start, I always hand them a line of sight eachine whoop and tell them to learn how to fly an entire pack without crashing, then spend 20$ and add a camera to it, make them solder it themselves, then get a OTG phone receiver and maybe a phone VR google cardboard thingy. Usually by that point they have already figured out what route they want to go, and they've only spent like $60
Thanks for Answering my question, I was not able to stay for the live steam to see it. Latency is a big thing for me and I enjoy freestyle the most, have been dabbling into racing in Liftoff and Liftoff Micro Drones and have been getting the Itch to do it more. I think going into HDZero is for me despite the issues. The other goggles I was looking at on the cheaper end was the Sky Zone 040 Pro.
I started with HDO2 goggles for the first two years, then went with the HDZ goggles to begin dabbling into digital. I now happily still use analog on the HDZ goggles, as well as HDZ and walksnail through their vrx. All three systems on the one goggle. To me it's more of a question of: do you want to go with DJI, or everything excluding DJI.
I stand by what you said too JB!
I agree. Another thing that supports the hobby is keeping people in it. It's really hard to beat the durability of DJI products.
This is my take on it, HDZero is Linux and will last for years, like Analog, the goggles wil not need to be upgraded every 2-3 years for the latest vtx. but they are 200+ more than analog. Also HDZero penitration is lower that the competition but does have AIO boards for 1s whoops , Walksnail is not much better for range and has poor quality control so expect bad parts delivered. Walksnail have VTX's in all sizes apart from AIO , DJI have best penitration but expect you to buy a new goggle every 2-3 years to stay connected to newest VTX's although they now have a lite VTX for 2s whoops. in all cases once you are into the hobby $$$$
Is the underlying architecture of the Divimath chipset that powers HDZ systems still the same chip set they have been using since 2017-2018. Are they now on a gen 2 system or is it just tweaks on the same gen 1 hardware? Unless there is something I missed, it looks like HDZ has just been tweaking the same tech for almost 8yrs with no significant jumps to what you could call a gen 2 system.
As a new drone hobbyist who went with HDZero I feel that Bardwell is right to make this recommendation. I'm happy with my choice but I did my research and knew that if I wanted a better experience for most of my flying besides racing I'd have to do something like grab a walksnail vrx. I'm fine with that but it's not realistic to expect most new users to shell out a big pile of cash just to get the experience they should have from the start.
My opinion is that the best freestyle, racing or bando drone for a BEGINNER is a ready to fly Analog kit. Why? It just works out of the box and it is cost effective. Then, once they've learned the basics, they can then decide what kind of flying suits them best and get better goggles etc. Then choosing the right digital system won't be overwhelming. Digital systems aren't plug and play. There's a lot more steps than an analog RTF kit. Unfortunately, I've seen a few videos lately by influencers talking down HDZero. Not sure why, but it is unnecessary.
Any company that sells drone stuff to consumers supports the hobby. In regards to picking HD systems this is how I see it.
DJI Best Video Quality / higher cost
WS lowest cost / fragile "I get better range/pen than DJI O3's not sure about O4's .... yet"
HDZ lowest latency / lowest video quality
OpenIPC ....... needs a lot of work
Went with it bc your versitle comments a few months back. I hope it will last a few generations due to the hdmi input and output. Guess we will see lol, range is LOS any how right😅.
Yall need to realize that every non racer GOAT in the industry, even some of the racers(Vannover) ALL prefer to fly on DJI most of the time. There’s a reason.
I totally agree that HDZero is not a good choice for most beginners unless their main use case is racing. Yes 4ms latency is extremely good and beneficial for freestyle but the vast majority of people will think that the additional range and penetration that DJI and Walksnail are offering is a better trade off even if the latency jumps to 25ms.
I'm with DJI family and I thing its limitative for Tiny whoops, what else would you recommend? Fat shark?
With DJI 04 we might have access to more TinyWhoops anyway no?
@@JeanFrancoisPoulin1 With the o4 "lite" you could get away with a 2s 85mm tiny whoop but it wouldn't really be a great indoor whoop if that's what you're looking for. I went with both hdzero (using a vrx on analog goggles) and dji to cover all bases. If they come out with a 1s o4 tinywhoop it's going to fly like a brick.
As someone getting into the research faze and diving heavily into SIMS. I was leaned towards HDZero for better video but also the ability to try and racs on occasion. What ability is there to race with DJI or Walksnail? I thought they arent allowed at MultiGP events or most any local ones for interference.
For o3 and older DJI air units they aren't great for racing for a number of reason. I have an o3 and I wouldn't try to race it due to signal interference with other pilots/race gates and latency. Apparently the new o4 has a race mode that fixes some of this but I haven't tried it. It also depends what you are racing. If you are racing tinywhoops then hdzero is still the best option no question due to the weight which is so important on micros. But on larger quads the o4 "might" make racing more viable on DJI. Walksnail also has a similar racing mode.
@Arbi5577 thanks for responding. Would walksnail be allowed then? Or in my situation of just wanting to build one quad to still go with hdzero and just deal with the downsides? Originally was going to go walksnail but recently through watching and diving I started leaning into hdzero. I wouldn't say money isn't an option but the 100 dollar difference for a one time investment compared to saving that money and having to build/repair two quads isn't worth it in my mind.
Waiting for the the parts for my first drone, agree 100%. I want 90+ Hz as a gamer and then range and quality. Not planning on racing at all
Bad take.I started DJI and instantly regretted it after trying to show up to my first race due to people making recommendations. I didnt know racing was how I wanted to interact with the hobby until I did it. Im an odd ball and just bought all systems then.
I daily reach for hdzero over DJI most of the time but enjoy them both. Im not sponsored or a fan boy. Taking into account whoops being the entry point for most beginners is a miss as well where hdzero is king.
That's a very interesting opinion.
I will say I personally haven't lost video at 500 feet behind a tree. The total image will degrade of course. Overall alot of these opinions kind of mask the fact that all of these video systems have a "weakness" and it's not just dji has infinite range and penetration like call of duty. Or walksnail. They have their crutches.
My opinion. If you are new. Analog is a kind entry into the hobby. But everyone's miles may vary
I'm hearing that Caddx is coming out with some new digital VTX/camera offerings at analog prices. But don't let that hold you back. Get an analog rig, and a cheap headbox; learn the basics and go from there. The hobby's still sorting itself out. No matter what you choose, it's gonna cost you over the long haul, so get used to it. The trick is to not jump at every new innovation with the expectation that it'll make things better. Wait a few months to see what others have to say - and for the firmware fixes to get released.
Judging by the looks it's gonna be another OpenIPC board. So more of a beta test than anything.
Im new in fpv, and i started with HDzero goggles, i tried dji avata 2 in china for test in the shop, and i don't like it. So i bought hdz for cruise aroud me, i build speedy for it on hdz, but before i bought gepcr t-cube18 on hdz, and i like it, and now i build long range 13 inch drone(now its on analog and i use analog module on my goggles) later will be on freestyle v2. And i like option that later i can add walksnail. So i think for me as beginner i use HDZ.
HDzero goggles ,, Analogue Modual ,, Avatar VRX you got all bases covered
I guess its about using the right tool for the job. HDZ needs a better range & pen. DJI needs lower latency. 2025 will be a big year for modifications and workarounds.
If money is no object then it makes sense to recommend digital. If it is a consideration then analog is the sensible choice
DJI is now cheaper than the top analog systems. Do your research.
DJI is interesting with the O4 Lite but I'm already on HDZ and WS. A third pair of goggles is a lot. I love the hdz latency
I'm a recreational park and guerrilla flyer and prefer low latency over resolution.
I agree 100 percent
I chose walksnail as my system, as I could not stand DJI's crappy behaviour. It was not because of supporting or whatever, I wanted good video system. It had it's issues. I would say it's almost perfect now. I have 7 drones currently with WS system. I believe I'm supporting the hobby :)
This is helpful to help me make my own decision. I have a bunch of analog gear, and fatshark box goggles, which I'm growing to hate. They receive terribly compared to a separate, simple diversity receiver I use to DVR my flights. Since I have a big investment in Analog gear already and want new goggles, I've considered HDZERO for my transition. Given that Josuha uses HDZERO as analog goggles, and that they would give me an opportunity to dabble in digital, they may be the right choice for me. I'm probably more interested in range than anything else, but I could put hdzero digital on quads I play freestyle with, and use my existing analog gear for range, when needed. That would beat buying two different sets of goggles.
I have yet to meet someone who regrets purchasing the HD-Zero goggles. I see plenty of DJI goggles being sold by pilots after they do. You do you. Joshua's point of view is only one of many in this hobby.
@@aphinityyou have a very one sided view here….
I feel like the range is fine for a begginer on HDZ. Penetration is a bit diff scenario though if they end up getting lost or something. You cant beat the N3 or Goggles L and a vision 40 for the price of the hdzero goggles though. A great begginer experience of digital at great price point to experience it all. I do think bardwell went a little too hard on HDZ for its range and penetration while not giving enough brownie points for its versatility and handling basically all the systems at great functionality aside from DJI.
S.O.B...literally just cleared my Hdzero goggles and mobula6 thru customs today...🤦♂️🤷♂️ last time i listen to anyone...just buy and fly whatever tf you want at this point. These guys go back and forth w their recommendations 😆😆
Idk man there’s a huge difference with HDZero and mini whoops. I’d say it definitely has that absolutely going for it.
I hope you enjoy your HD-Zero goggles as much as I have! Best thing I've purchased in this hobby in a very long time. To each their own tho.
Hd zero and micro's are awesome, JB is correct if you want to fly 3.5 or bigger quads. There is a strong argument for learning with micros, you will get more flight time and everything is harder to break and cheaper to fix. If you want the feel of a larger quad build a 3" toothpick
For HD 1s tinywhoops like the mobula6, hdzero is still king imo.
I'm a freestyle pilot, and I do love the low latency, and the type of breakup image. I'm flying analogue but looking for trying digital system, And I really want to get and love HDzero, but, when I compare the range and penetration that people are getting with DJI or even Walksnail....
Do you think Walksnail VRX is worth it? paired with the 1st version of FATSHART HDo googles? or is the latency to high?
I don't like the walksnail googles, DJI for sure is the best and now with the O4 on race mode, the latency is getting to the point i would risk go DJI, but the price of the googles... dammm .
it reminds me of the windows/linux discussion. i love linux for what it has the potential to be, but I run windows for the best experience.
It's rare these days to get an opinion from a you tuber that isn't financially motivated. Thank you JB
Now this is why we love JB. Ive been watching every single stream in reverse chronological order, and I 1000% agree with this take even though I'm a hardcore HDZ pilot. At the end of the day, the noobs and casuals just want a few months of the best experience possible before they forget about the hobby altogether. Every time I fly DJI I wonder why I didn't go with it to begin with. Its beyond superior in almost every regard. Amd should be looked at as the minimum standard for 2025 tech.
Then I look at all my gear, knowledge, and expectations and remember why I didn't buy into the mega corps products. But I'm 1 person, insignificant, and don't have any room to talk about opinions.
(Though since the 04, he has been a bit shitty towards anything else, makes me wonder why??)
Because it keeps getting further ahead. He’s right. They need to re invest their profits into developing better technology….its obvious.
@vitamin350z Now I wouldn't go that far. It's not behind in any means, it's just a different system for people who care about different interests. I could care less about a mega corporations walled off development of an ecosystem even if it's superior in some things, lacking in others. I respect it, but don't find value in it's products like others might. But again, I'm 1 individual. Insignificant. JB is correct when he says it's not for beginners, I agree. Most people won't stay in this hobby longer than a few months, so let them enjoy the stuff they known nothing about and just have fun. If they grow out of it, then that's even better.
@@rexfpv it’s true though….penetration and range needs to be stepped up if nothing else. Wouldn’t you agree?
It has its merits, but the overall picture(pun intended) is dropping packets. Sayin?!
@vitamin350z I guess.... DJI definitely sets a "standard" but the real question is 'who's standard?' If you fly and need penetration, then its your standard.
I typically don't. I'm racing in a field, or doing long-range on a cliffside, and/ or using analog. My HDZ system absolutely kills and is way more developed in everything about the parts of the hobby I enjoy tinkering with. That's all I'm saying.
Honestly, I hate arguing about it because it's pointless. If I had more throw away money, you bet your ass id have a DJI setup just to enjoy the cinematic flight feel and picture in the goggles. I think the product is amazing. The company is shit, but it's the world we live in. I'll take what I can get before I stand against them for petty personal problems I have.
HDZ isn't for everyone. But for the people who know.... know 😀
He's right HD ZERO is not that good a BEGINNER SHOULD START WITH ANALOG
10:30
Paradise?
You can start with any system , they all have their good and bad side, DJI on the other hand is just better than the rest, but can you afford it, thats the important part, and learning the system you buy , is the other part. JB will square you away, just listen and learn, too easy.
if you don't get hd zero googles, you will always wonder what they like! personally they are my first per of googles. no regerts. but after buy them you realize everything they are saying ! hd zero googles are heavy compared to analog, sometime i wish i had a light weight pair of googles. hd zereo bad for range, any time you wanna fly long distant behind buildings and trees its analog, also curious how dji would go, but honestly don't think I'm missing out, image doesn't make a better piolet, it makes a better video
Damn I watched his review on HD zero and it really seemed like the googles to get, after watching this I’m wondering if I should return them and get something else.
If you plan to fly analog (i.e. cheaper whoops or buying used larger drones, which is a great choice for beginners), AND you are rich to not care about the price of the goggles+receiver module+adapter, the HDZ goggles are a great luxury item. Whether you need to use HDZ as the HD protocol is a separate question.
Absolutely agree with Bardwell
Buy analog if you’re a brokie and buy hdzero if you’re ballin. DJI and Walksnail are dad drones 😴
I have appreciated many of your excellent videos. Thank you. But this one is a waste of time.
With the new 04 Pro I may just get back into FPV
I must dissagree about better range and penetration in Walksnail system, compare to HDZERO. I try Avatar in autumn last year, and I was very dissapointment. Range is smaller, penetration weaker, latency is very feel vs HDZERO. Only image is definitely better in Avatar system. I started flying in 2016 with analog system on board. Maybe this is the reason why I like HDZERO regarding image quality. And I prefer HDZERO about "presentation of weak signal" vs digital FPV systems.
DJI in my opinion, is also not perfect and sometimes consumers experience such unexpected problems (like cut off RX singal in last year). But for beginners maybe this is the best FPV system. Especialy with O4 Air Unit. But is expensive and not good tested for now. We don't know what potentialy problems may it be hidden. But this is only my private, maybe rash concerns.
i feel same with hdz vs walksnail.
No.
When you first get into flying you are not going to tell the difference of the latency of the DJI versus HD 0 I personally could not tell the difference between latency until about a year and a half to two years into flying
Anyone who owns a high refresh rate monitor to play games will find it obvious
Should start with LOS system like I did 👀
So for the guy that starts with DJI then learns he wants to start racing. He now has to buy new goggles or never consider that route since DJI doesn’t support racing. New pilots will need to know this in their decision making as well.