I flew analog for about 7 years, then switched to o3 in November 2023, I can clearly see I keep adjusting all the time because I am disconnected to the quad. A couple weeks ago I flew one of my analog quads again, and man, I felt like I was Vanover. I like how DJI looks, but the connection I feel with analog is just so good.
This is my biggest takeaway from flying after filing this. It still feels very weird to fly DJI again… I can compensate for it and I can fly it, but it always feels like something is slightly off… I’m actually regretting trying this now as I would never have known there was something better 😂
Yep same,I fly walksnail but lately I've gone back to Analogue and it's been a blast especially as you don't need to think about crashing and breaking a hd camera, Analogue is so much cheaper to replace.
That’s why when it came time to replace my old HD3’s, I got the HDZero goggles, cause all I flew was analog. The interlacing was an immediate unexpected benefit. Ten I could ease my way into hd as I bought HDZero quads. Don’t regret my choice. Would never buy anything from that proprietary company DJI
I'm nearly 60 years old and got into racing shortly after I started FPV. I'm old and slow but love it. I flew analogue for a good while but picked up an HDZero VRX on flash sale when they launched the HDZero goggles.The VRX does not support 540p 90fps but the VRX and my Skyzone O4X goggles with OLEDs are still a pretty low latency combo. I've gradually moved most of my quads to HD0. It has been said HD0 is for the really quick pilots but I'm more of the opinion that older and slower pilots notice the difference even more. The young guys at my club can race anything and be quick. If I change anything at all it throws me off for at least 6 packs. Switching from a 25 degree camera angle freestyle quad to a 50 degree race quad used to mess with my brain. Now I have both down and can switch in 1 pack. I'd like to try DJI but whenever I've tried other people's DJI it has felt all weird. I'm afraid if I bought my own then it would take me another 12 months to be able to add that third set of muscle memory to my brain. Your video seems to back up my thoughts. Thanks for a great vid.
I think at some point I’ll get used to switching between the two, I didn’t think it would feel as different as it does. Going back to DJI afterwards was quite a shock, it took a few packs to get used to it again but I hope this will become easier as I’d love to be able to fly both
I fly analog and DJI. The first time I tried DJI I felt like I was having half a second delay and couldn't handle it. Now, I switch in between the two systems even on the same flying session and I don't notice it. What I do notice and can't explain is that analog feels more immersive to me. DJI is so clean it feels more like I'm watching a screen.
That's a really good description... and going back to DJI from HDZ that delay although small felt really strange and I'm sure I'll get to the point where I can switch between the two easily... right now it still takes me a couple of packs to readjust every time I use the other. For me the O3 image that takes up all of the goggles feels more immersive when I'm cruising around... but there's definitely a much greater feeling of being connected to the quad with HDZ...
@@GarethDix I mean, the O3 image is really amazing, but for me the clincher is that you said you managed to save the quad multiple times on HDZero that you wouldn't have been able to on DJI... I don't like needlessly damaging my gear.
Fair review. I've been on HDZero since 2021 and I love the system, but I can totally get why someone raised on DJI would have a hard time switching back and forth between systems, and why they might not decide to make HDZ their daily driver. It's pretty specialized for racing, and the performance envelope for range and penetration more closely resembles analog, where I came from. For me, it was a straight upgrade from analog in every way, and being into racing made it a no-brainer to stick with it. I've yet to be interested enough in DJI to buy it, but I have flown it. It's impressive, but it felt dull compared to 60 Hz HDZ, and 90 Hz certainly blows it out of the water in terms of pure flight feel. I can adapt to higher latency, to the point that I wouldn't notice anymore, but the knowledge that I'm being held back would always be there. That slight bit of uneasyness would always be there. Fine for certain flight styles, but proximity flight would be a bit harder. With HDZero, the machine gets out of your way and unlocks substantially more of your potential. Ignore the comments about your flying. You're doing well and flying smoothly without a lot of micro-corrections or sloppiness. People nowadays are spoiled by watching top pilots all the time and waaayyy overestimate their own skill.
Since filming this I find myself reaching for the HDZ quad way more often. As a daily driver it’s actually not about the system itself just the goggle comfort (which the comments have given me some options) and the file handling. Otherwise I would probably fly this way more than DJI now. In a way I kind of wish I hadn’t tried it… a sort of ignorance is bliss type thing. I was happy with DJI, but now it always feels like something is off which I never had an issue with before.
For your flying style DJI is good enough. Hdzero is for racers and people who fly crazy fast in close proximity like Nick Burns and many others. If you want to feel one with the drone, a connection beyond image quality and experience the incredible sensation when you hit gaps zipping through obstacles and race course getting your adrenaline super high, sweating and trembling fingers the crazy experience of fast FPV then HDzero is for you. I fly Analog and HDzero mainly, I wish HDZero had better penetration at least as good as analog, other than that I got no complaints.
I completely agree… but the weird thing for me trying HDZ is that it made me realise what’s possible flying wise… I wasn’t ever really interested in that snappy quick freestyle but it feels so natural to push that side of things with HDZ. Even since recording this going back to DJI I’m pushing the quad a lot more than before because I know it can do it
HDz love on my whoops.. I started doing walksnail but realized it dies at 3.06v and 1s whoops will get to 3.0v or 2.9v at lower voltages thr blips so it shut off. HDzero goes to 2.75v
@@divingfalconfpv4602The newest eco goes down that far, but the image quality is basically slightly better analog. That said, fractal sells a booster that only weighs 0.4 grams(tiny bit under actually) and allows you to remotely shut off the vtx power via switch on the radio. Well worth the $6.99 and allows 1s walksnail to run down below 3v.
in one of the discord channels I brought this up and seems like a few other Mac users were having issues at 90fps. at 60fps it seems the files work just fine
I always flew analog before HD was a thing recently got the DJI fpv drone and honestly I can never go back to analog now and even with o3 I don't notice any latency
i started with o3 in fpv, them i decided to build one analog quad, now i prefer fly and build analog quads, just left o3 for long range and smooth flying. but.. there is a trick with dji which improves the latency feel. use the ham file and select manually a 20 mhz channel, and set resolution to 1080, 100 fps, it really helps.
I feel like that’s what’s happened to me after filming this video… DJI hasn’t really felt the same so although I’ll still use it I’m definitely planning on more HDZ / analog quads I’ll check out that trick thanks!
@5:50 so you're gonna love Betaflight 4.6 because it has Disarm on Landing now. It works GREAT! Off by default, in the OSD menu under MISC under TPA is EZ landing something something. Try setting it to 50 (less is more sensitive, higher is less sensitive). Then just land and lower your throttle... its like magic 😁
that could be a game changer... usually my terrible landing is because I blip the throttle and disarm whilst in the air haha... but I look forward to trying it out
@@conorstewart2214 I haven't tried wall taps with a whoop yet, the only way it's going to trigger is if you have your throttle all the way down and your roll and pitch totally centered and then tap over the threshold.
If you want fly proximity analogue or hdzero is best. The other digital systems will gradually nudge you away from wanting to fly proximity into basically just cruising. I find with HDZERO you can almost look through the image to see the world you're flying but with avatar/dji your kind of just aware you're staring at a screen. I think HDZERO and Analogue perfectly capture the motion of the flight but the other digital systems seem to get more unsettled by rapid motion in the view.
That’s pretty accurate… I don’t think I really noticed it until trying HDZ. What I have found is when I’m hitting gaps with HDZ I tend not to clench up hoping I don’t hit something. Which is what I always do with DJI. But yeah really impressed by how different it feels from DJI
One thing people never get is that analog still uses digital cameras, digital vtx, digital goggles. And so just cause you are on analog is no guarantee to have low latency. Fixed, yeah but low ... It depends. My analog staten before 03 gave me 20 Ms of latency. 14 Ms on the cam, 4 on the vtx and 6 on the goggles. Now with DJI I got 25 to 36 Ms but usually I manage to have it be stable at 26. So I never noticed latency difference with analog. Now hdzero 90 and under 14 Ms, I would love to try it!!!
Weirdly HDZ got me flying analog a lot more too… and analog being that happy medium has helped me transition between the systems way more easily than I did in this video a few months back
the Pyrodrone foam is designed by the same guy that made your current DJI foam. I was "testhead" for that foam and helped design it. Later he made foams for Walksnail and HDZERO too after many asked for it. Pyrodrone sells them branded as theirs, but also other shops sell them in US and EU.
@@GarethDix yeah it took some effort to get something that works for Caucasian face structures on a goggle molded on an Asian face😂. But in the end after some revisions we had something that allowed eyes to come close enough for good focus for many of us and still being comfortable. Glad you like it. According to the manufacturer the Pyrodrone foam for HDZ should have a similar face fit. Haven't tried it myself though as I only have the dji system myself.
Someone probably already said this but you have to format your sd card as fat32 on your mac first and then you can use it on your hdz goggles and record as mp4 instead of .ts and you'll be able to read it and go straight into imovie or davinci. I still record as .ts because it supports unplugging and not having to close the .mp4 file to keep it from corrupting. You can also upgrade your vtx and camera by saving the update file on your sd card in your goggles and using a cable to your vtx from your goggles.
For me picture quality is everything. If you have a computer with a RTX 4090 and you run it on a 14” 720 dpi monitor it totally defeats the object. Hence, even though it has its haters, it is DJI all the way for me until someone comes up with a realistic alternative.
Think of it more like gaming online using that RTX so graphically it’s immersive AF, but your ping is 300ms. I use both systems and each has its merits and downfalls
Interesting video and take. I fly analogue and digital. Have used pretty much all of them (because I can afford it) and each brand has its own uniqueness amd capabilities. In a good hands and skills of a pilot, adjustments and compensation can be made for the flight. FYI, I've been in this hobby for more than a decade and have seen the rapid change in technology. Things get better.
I agree the more I’ve flown both the easier it’s been to switch between the two and I love them for different reasons the first pack always feels a little iffy but much less of a shock as it was when I recorded this
Great review, im currently on vacation brought my hdzero goggles, pocket radio and aos 35, running 4s with 1505 motors with 3400kv. Im using the hdzero v3 cam with the freestyle vtx. Its annoying I dont have the cable to unlock 1 watt, thanks Carl lol. Honestly switching from crossfire to elrs was a game changer, I found 1watt crossfire really intefered with the video.
ahh that's really interesting, I rarely fly far away so haven't had to jack my tx power up on crossfire. all I have found is that if I go to 1watt on ELRS my batteries don't last very long in my radio!
When superb racer Vanover tried DJI for the first time he said he could notice a very slight delay, but he could adjust to it. In the video, they ran multiple laps of a legit race track. In the end after running lots of laps with both analog and DJI he ended up having his fastest lap with analog, but I think it beat DJI 's fastest lap by 3 or 4 HUNDREDS OF A SECOND. He said he could easily adjust to the very slight additional latency, but it was no big deal. HDzero and analog have the same latency. It's something most don't even notice, including myself. But, some want to make a big deal about it. I'd like to make a big deal about how crappy the image quality is on HDZero, especially how short a distance you can fly close to the ground. 100 meters and full on square color pixels and rainbow screen of death! DJI can fly forever and a day and still have superb image quality so you can explore so far with a crystal clear image it's crazy. That's not even taking about flying around buildings, of which HDZero can't fly 50 feet around a corner of a building and it's done!
I totally agree about the image quality difference, and I can also go between analog and hdzero and walksnail in the same session, my brain adjusts, as it does for different power quads, brushed/brushless etc. But I've noticed not everyone can adjust. Some people get totally disoriented by the slight change, even feeling nauseous. For these people hdzero is perfect... But we are all different, we need these choices, and we need to stop putting crap on other systems because choice is important
Do you mean that O3 has bigger penetration inside a city ? I saw that there are 10 watts analog VTX, I wonder if that would allow to not lose connection if you fly behind a building.
@Anadrolus With more power multipathing (reflections of the video signal bouncing between buildings) can often make the image worse. ... sure, It is possible that running higher power could stop you completely losing video signal as fast but due to how it adversely affects image quality, the trick is to run your VTX at as low power as possible for your particular urban environment.
So the firmware update dongle is only PC but I’ve found that the file issue only happens with 90fps footage. I’ve also found a workaround to convert the files quickly to make them work on a Mac but it’s still an extra step. 60fps works well though
I fly HDZero since about a year and got to try DJI on one of my friend's quad lately and I got to say, I'm happy that I did not go with DJI when I made my decision ! I guess it's a matter of being used to it, but as soon as I took off, I felt like something wasn't right for me.. We were crusing in a forest through trees and I did not feel confident enough to roam around at all haha. The goggles 3 didn't have enough diopter adjustments for me to have a clear image though, that surely didn't help! I think some people are less affected by latency overall, which is why this "debate" on how latency affects flying or not will never end.
Yeah I didn’t realise what a controversial topic this is… I definitely feel more confident flying HDZ but not so much when I’m in trees as that 540p resolution is a killer compared to DJI. But if anything it’s made me feel that I’m missing something flying DJI when I never had done before
I had been flying HDZero for over a year after flying analog for 8+ years..I finally switched to DJI and you can imagine how much I have struggled with the latency... To add insult to injury, I decided to switch controllers and so I have switched from pinching to thumbs.... I'm still after several weeks struggling with freestyle that used to come so easily... The upside is much better image and range and I've just kinda switched modes to be more cruising... So latency is definitely a thing and definitely affects the flying .. Some adjust more early to it... It's been a struggle for me. As for your reasons to not use it...I can completely agree. I've switched to PC but used Mac for many years and hdzero did make that more of a pain... The main issue I ran into with hdzero though was quality control with the cameras getting specks of dust on the sensor and durability issues. I'm glad I switched though even with the struggles.
I am literally about to switch controllers 😂 But yes I totally agree with you, I think weirdly for me I enjoyed flying HDZ way more than I thought I would and although I think most people will go with one system or another but I’ll definitely keep flying both as they have different applications. I haven’t seen the QC issues yet with HDZ yet but I’ve definitely had issues with O3 cameras and the lens being loose… which makes that $250 way harder to swallow
The new 1w hdzero vtx is a game changer vs where they were a year and a half ago on smaller quads limiting it to 250mw. What I have noticed is the lack of a fan in the Goggles 2 and Goggles X that drives me nuts in hot weather vs the fans in hdzero goggles. You can also set the recording file type via the HDZ Goggles as well. Nice work!
It's one of the main problems with the DJI goggles the best setup is an analogue camera and a separate HD camera for filming because you can set the two cameras up differently one for flying ones for filming
I am currently looking at a Runcam Thumb Pro, I've destroyed plenty of external cameras in crashes that when the O3 came out it was a better option... but if I can run HDZ with an ext camera and keep it under 250g that's even better
Haha great video! Was really funny as you said: the image quality 😂 and me thinks of all the years I flown in nearly black and white and 240p and horrible signal quality 😂 but yeah sure dji looks incredible but as you get used to lower quality video feed, it doesn't matter at all. Like your brain is looking at the trees, buildings, ground whatever and not the nice hdr cinematic picture composition 😅
For me it's not so much that DJI has a higher latency but it's that it's variable... I'm not that fast if a racer and not all that great at freestyle but having a determined response that is consistent makes the difference for me.
I fly whoops in analogue and HDZ, a DJI avata (O3) and a 3.5" analog. I do notice going from an analogue to HDZ whoop regarding latency. At first, I crashed a lot going back to analogue because I got used to quick reaction, proxi flying about the house evading a chompy dog. But eventually, I got used to the two. Though, I'm a lot more confident with HDZ. Definitely one for racing. Hey, but we are each our own pilots so whatever works works.
I would love to have HDZ on more of my whoops but the one I’m using in this video is sooooo heavy it kind of ruined the experience of me so all my other whoops are analog. I’m hoping the new HDZ AIO is fairly light so I can try this out. But the mob6 HDZ from this video I’ve been upgrading it to see if I can get it to fly like a decent whoop
Bro! First, I love your videos because you always think of unique, entertaining, and informative ideas. I've built a few analog racing quads and I love the way they fly. I recently decided to build an analog 5" freestyle bird and I was blown away! As you know, I started with DJI and the vast majority of my fleet are O3AUs and Vistas. I figured since I've got these fancy Skyzone O4X Pro goggles, I might as well try a little analog freestyle. The bird flies AMAZING! It feels so "locked in" (now that I actually know what that means) I'm using high-quality analog VTX and Camera (Rush Max Solo 2.5w and Foxeer Predator 5 Micro) so the image isn't even bad. I can do proxy work and not worry too much about "ghost branches". I still love my DJI quads, but they don't have that same "locked in" feeling as the analog bird does. At the risk of spending even more money on the fourth and final FPV system, I might have to pick up some HD Zero gear and give it a go. (I wasn't a huge fan of Walksnail, BTW.) Anyway, Its always great to see a notification from your channel! Keep up the great work!
Thanks!! I actually have a Speedybee TX800 sitting on the bench that I'm considering putting into a 5inch just to see if I can fly a big quad with analog and I'm trying to get hold of a Foxeer Predator to put in it too. I've been bashing analog whoops around for awhile now and it's been a lot of fun and I don't miss the O3 image quality.... until I go back to the O3 and it's like "WOW". I completely understand that feeling of going back to DJI though and thinking that something is off when flying... I honestly thought this was because people didn't like DJI as a company, but I've been converted. Flying my DJI quads now has been hilarious though it's like riding a bike except when you turn the handlebar the wheel is going the other way haha. The main reason I got HDZ goggles was because I could put an analog module on them too... the skyzone goggles I looked at weren't that much cheaper... although I'm sure the analog image is way better than what I get.
The difference between 60 fps and 90fps is also quite noticeable when flying near stuff. I friend of mine who moved from DJI to HDZero to race is using the DJI foam on HDZero goggles :)
I'm going to try the 60fps mode this weekend to see what the image quality is like and hopefully it's a happy medium. I'll take a look and see if my DJI goggle foam fits as I thought it would be too small but that will save me some money if it does!
@@GarethDix what DJI goggles are you using? You could maybe change the settings for better latency. The goggles V2 with the o3 air unit have 40 ms latency at 60 fps and 28 ms latency at 120 fps. The goggles 3, goggles integra and goggles 2 have 40 ms latency at 60 fps and 30 ms latency at 100 fps. When the o4 air unit comes out it should get better similar to how it is with the Avata 2 with the goggles 3 with the latency being 40 ms at 60 fps and 24 ms at 100 fps. In comparison hdzero claims to get as low as 14 ms latency at 90 fps and 20 ms at 60 fps. So the DJI goggles even at their best aren’t as good as analogue or hdzero in terms of latency but you can still improve the DJI goggles latency by changing your settings.
Nurk FPV did a great test of DJI vs Analog for racing. He ran many packs on a race course (maybe 20 packs) using each system. He was faster with analog but not by much... if memory serves, only like a second per lap which is unacceptable if you are trying to be a top racer. What he did prove is unless you are a top 1% pilot you can fly DJI and achieve very close to the same results as with analog but get the huge benefit to the experience of flying with the awesome view.
I’ll take a look I haven’t seen that video. Not that I think I’ll be racing any time soon, but it does feel very different to fly. It’s a bit like going from playing video games on an old TV and switching to a gaming monitor. it’s not going to turn someone into a pro gamer but going back to the TV you realise what you’re missing out on. When I fly with my DJI O3 quad now I got used to it again but it feels like something is slightly off
I switched from hdzero to dji and tbh DJI is the better choice for 90% or the freestyle/LR/cruise pilots. The latency might be lower, but the range and penetration feels like switching from crossfire/elrs to Frsky
I'd agree I think you can't really go wrong with DJI... but there's definitely something about flying HDZero that made me want to fly more aggressively
As a Mac user and HDZERO fanatic I do wish the programmer had software for Mac. But the video files are viewable on Mac either the VLC video player. I have DJI also for certain applications but find myself enjoying the racing community and HDZERO a lot. Thx for the video 😎
The issue with VLC player is that on a Mac you have to convert them one by one... and for some reason converting the 90fps files just wasn't possible. I found a workaround with ff-works and it works great. But yeah I agree I still like flying DJI... but I have found a weird love for HDZero since I filmed this
Years ago, my brother gifted me a FatShark and a BetaFPV85. I liked training FPV on the simulator, and I managed to fly the BetaFPV85 accurately through my flat and later a 5-inch freestyle outside. Still, the video quality always bothered me, and I eventually lost interest. A couple of months ago, I bought the DJI Avata 2, and I was impressed by the video quality, and it caught my attention again. I now have a current 5-inch AOS 5 V5 and a Flylens 85 lite, and I love it now and have flown every day since - all because of the DJI video quality. =)
I use an after market foam on my HD Zero goggles so they are available - no light leaks and comfortable even when loaded up with a Walksnail VRX. Have pretty much completely switched to Walksnail for image quality, flexibility etc. and don’t want to get locked into the DJI ecosystem. If I become a better freestyle pilot I might do another Hd Zero build but Walksnail is fine for my flying needs.
any idea what that aftermarket foam is called? I'll take a look. I hadn't really thought about walksnail until recently with the moonlight camera and goggles L they're fast becoming a good option and I'm sure I'll test it out soon
Having tried all the big 3 I like walksnail best. It has extremely low latency. Low enough to make it a non issue anymore at the same time as being HD. And you can tune the video transmitter settings to get down to like 18-20ms. Which is wild btw.
I've yet to experience analog myself. First drone I ever flown was avata 1. I never felt latency on my avata 1. Fly it through very tight spaces that are like 1ft by 1ft big with no problems at all. Maybe my mind is somehow compensating for the latency? Now that I've seen this, I'm going to pay attention to my next flight and see if I can notice any sort of latency.
I’ve flown DJI based quads since I started the hobby and honesty had no idea why people complained about latency with DJI. But this was pretty eye opening and it’s kinda ruined my thinking why anyone would fly anything other than DJI except cost. You probably wont be able to notice the latency in normal flight if you aren’t flying something else (kind of like not knowing what it’s supposed to fly like if it wasn’t there) but if you fly into a building or behind a large tree far away you’ll feel the video feed slow down a little just for a short period of time. You don’t really get this with HDZ or analog you just get interference with the picture instead.
@GarethDix I see. Yes that type of flight is out of by ball park. I usually fly it a half mile out in wide open field with small trees, cactuse and no buildings nearly. Yep that's all I got where I live in arizona... nothing. When I mentioned small spaces earlier that's when I fly it indoors which it shouldn't have latency issues since I am right there next to it
The MP4’s the V2 freestyle unit generates still have to be converted. On the whoop lite VTX it works straight off. It’s to do with the h.265 codec being used
I really liked the video! Interesting topic and wonderful quality. Just can't believe the straight up rudeness of some of the comments you've gotten. Fly the way you want and upload as many videos as you want. I personally picked hdzero as I was interested in tiny whoops and was ok with sacrificing some of the performance for better image quality. I however remain very interested in also dji and walksnail and will probably try out one or the other in the future!
Thanks… and I’m ok with the comments… a lot of people found it interesting regardless of me not being a pro pilot. But I’m hoping the new whoop AIO will be really light as I’ve gotten used to flying analog whoops but miss that HDZero image. DJI O3 and I’m guessing WS moonlight quality will be like nothing you’ve ever seen, but I think it’ll feel very strange to fly fast if you’ve only flown HDZero… but it’s still amazing
What mode do you have the DJI system in? I believe the video filming mode is the mode that gets sent to the goggles too, so if you have it set to 30 fps then that is what goes to the goggles, same with 60 and 100 fps. Hence most pilots fly with it on 60 fps to get a balance between latency, frame rate and file size.
I’m not sure if you touched on this. Biggest difference for me from 03 to HDZ was switching from 16:9 to 4:3. That makes it way harder to judge how close you are to objects if you aren’t used to it. Also a Mac user. I made a folder with the unzipped files for each portion of firmware updating and power unlocking. Since they all need to be named the same gets confusing if you do it from download. I basically only fly HDZ anymore. Love having every size from whoop to 5” on the same goggle
Actually that's a good point I didn't mention that... I think weirdly for me 4:3 just feels very odd as 16:9 feels more immersive... but I hadn't considered that I can see more vertical as a result... actually that's quite interesting with that in mind I'll think about that as I fly HDZ this weekend again. But yes I totally get what you mean about the firmware... I've been deleting it from my folders as soon as I know it's working so there's no confusion, just wish that dongle I bought would work on a Mac!
@@GarethDix after getting used to 4:3 I find myself flying much closer to the ground than I did with 03. I think both have their use cases. If I’m doing hard “sbangy” freestyle I prefer hdz. But if I just want to sit in my truck and not point towards my quad 03 wins there for sure.
As someone who flies HDZ, and has also had their turn trying DJI on my quads, I can definitely feel the difference. Being so used to the fixed, super low latency of HDZ, the DJI system is really disorientating for me, especially with that variable latency.
I'm surprised DJI haven't just added a fixed latency mode. Sure HDZ hasn't got the same penetration as DJI but I've been able to fly through really bad breakup on HDZ whereas the stuttering in the video on DJI always ends up with me crashing
@@GarethDix imo HDZero is actually better than DJI for long range, mainly because it reconnects instantly instead of having to wait for the handshake process to finish, which can take up to 5 seconds on DJI. Also, I like how HDZero's breakup gives you a "warning" when you're reaching your max range, where other, compressed HD systems like DJI or Walksnail will just randomly drop out.
on DJI it gives a red line to warn you that you're loosing signal that grows as the connection starts to drop... the problem is that it appears all of a sudden and then your connection is gone. Not that I fly long range, but certainly when I'm flying behind things. but yeah that breakup is a better warning than the camera just lagging all of a sudden!
@@GarethDixdji can’t do fixed latency because of how their system works fundamentally. It gets such a good image at the cost of higher latency because when processing what to send when (frames) it waits till a good image (frame) is assembled and then sends it, this takes longer and is variable. HDz and analog just send the frames as they become available with noise etc at a consistent rate (fixed latency), which is a fundamentally different approach.
You can see in the OSD that he is already using something other than DJI for the RC link, so he is probably using the same transmitter for both quads. Most of the latency will be in the video anyway. The control link is a relatively small amount of data to send and doesn’t need much processing, the video on the other hand is a lot of data and needs a lot of processing to display it in the goggles so that is where most of the latency comes from.
I’m using crossfire on these quads and I have ELRS on other O3 quads and haven’t noticed much of a difference other than ELRS goes further than the mini crossfire antenna
Why would it change anything? The radio link was presumably the same for both the DJI and hdzero tests. The delay is just a body reaction to what the respective VTXs were sending. If anything it's just get worse with a faster rate ELRS link. But that's typically something only folks dialed into a racer flight style are really going to feel.
Learned with Analog, HDZero was just a natural fit for me. I cannot stand the latency with DJI/Walksnail at all. It's just a night and day difference. Super not worth the slightly better image quality to feel so disconnected from your machine. It's better suited for fixed wing applications for my tastes. I need instant reaction, not a variable delay. I need shit to happen when my brain tells my hands, otherwise I may crash or hit something I don't wanna. More power to you for trying it, however, it's not gonna be something you'll enjoy coming from DJI unless you take the time to learn what it's actually like, a flight or two won't do it. You have to remap your brain to get rid of the latency compensation it does.
Completely agree... I feel like this test kind of opened pandoras box for me and in a way has ruined flying DJI for me... I just feel like there's something missing when I fly it now. I still love the immersive image quality etc but that latency is a bit like living in ignorance of something and then as soon get a glimpse at what's possible you can't stop thinking about it
@@GarethDix I mean, if nothing else, it'll just make you a better pilot to be able to have the flexibility, however they sorta work against each other in a way since the response feel and the way you have to act/react is different. Tbh, it's not a challenge I do a ton, or when I do it, I pick my flight path very carefully (i.e. I'll opt for more cinematic/high flying away from things, just to absorb that scenery) vs when I'm flying HDZero, I don't tend to worry about much apart from obstacles that'll kill my reception. It's definitely weaker re: penetration as you have experienced yourself, though I'd say I've gotten a lot more confident flying through interference because I know that my quad will still respond to what little I can see, not that I tend to have to do that a lot (again, just being aware of where I choose to fly)
I can't wait to get mine, they will be shipped tomorrow. The only pair of goggles I used are very cheap eachine box goggles i got years ago for like 70 bucks. Going from the bottom tier goggles to the very top. I hope it's worth it, almost had to sell a kidney for them. Shipping and VAT to germany is so expensive and after i get the analog module and antennas i spent nearly a 1000 clams on them :o
Yeah I think the price of the HDzero goggles was the big shock for me... originally I was considering getting a pair of high end analog goggles and they weren't much cheaper... but then I hadn't considered the analog module bay, the module itself and all the antennae. But with one goggle you can do 3 systems now depending on what you need and HDZ image quality can be pretty good in comparison
The main reason for choosing or not choosing HDZERO is flying style. If you are not racing or advanced freestyle then you likely won’t pick hdzero. Park flying, cruising, cinematic, and long range pilots will mostly prefer DJI/Walksnail. But there’s good reasons absolutely no one brings dji or walksnail to an organized club event.
Totally agree… I’ve only ever flown DJI and was happy with it and although I’m not an advanced pilot in any way, trying HDZ has made me question what I want from a system and what I want to learn as a pilot. With DJI I was happy cruising around and throwing in a trick or two every so often. With HDZ it’s like it’s poking me saying “go on send it a little harder” really eye opening and even since filming this I keep reaching for that HDZ quad more often
Pyrodrone makes a really nice aftermarket replacement foam for the HDZ goggles, After using the stock foam until it started falling apart i can say that it is terrible, the pyrodrone foam made me actually fall in love with my goggles again. Another thing is the stock antenna that comes with the HDZ freestyle vtx, it's complete garbage. Any decent antenna will drastically increase your range and pen. Also for the 90 HZ camera runcam makes a replacement lens that lessens the fisheye and makes it much nicer to fly in proximity. Personally I started with analog and then HDZero, and only recently did I get to try out DJI O3 on the Goggles 2. The video quality absolutely blew my socks off but the second I touched the sticks i could feel the latency. Would I get used to it over time? probably, both systems have their place. When flying low and fast you don't think about the video quality much and it really makes HDZ shine, but cruising around nice and slow really makes me wish for DJI or Walksnail, HDZ 1080p30 mode just does not compete.
This is 100% accurate. After breaking that stock antenna I now have a Rush Cherry antenna on it and it hasn't broken yet! I'll take a look at the lens replacement, someone else mentioned another one in the comments earlier so really interested in trying it out. I have to admit flying HDZ felt like I wanted to be more aggressive than I am flying DJI... and then trying to translate that back to DJI was... well yeah terrible. I'll take a look at the pyrodrone foam, someone else mentioned that skyzone foam fits and someone else was Using DJI Goggles 2 foam that fits... and I have a few of those spare so I'll see if it works
HD Zero and analogue are better for flying, I've been flying for many years, I tried DJI and hated it. The youth play games 🎮 bluetooth headphones 🎧 you kinda all ready prepared for the delay. At the end of the day it's down to you! My choice HD Zero or the old school ano! Feel it fly it! Try it!
I flew analog, bought a O3 System and Goggles 2. Tried it out, switched back to RapidFire 😂 With Analogue I feel like a a drone, on O3 I feel like a human Controlling a drone. And I really missed the breakup. That makes me feel so much safer, than this Little HD Bar in the O3..
I did a few other tests that the video didn't work on that I wish I could have shown in this video. I flew into a huge concrete structure and the even with the HDZ breakup I managed to fly slowly around and out of. Even with DJI O3 I get a frozen picture or huge lag that I just end up crashing in there.
Something I rarely see noted in dji/walksnail reviews. All the problems they can cause in the field if flying with mixed groups..DJI/WS should have a separate chapter in their manual addressing the conflicts except it might turn off some potential buyers..😕
I rarely fly with more than one other person (as there’s fewer people that fly FPV near where I live) but what I have noticed is when I fly with a friend of mine that uses DJI my analog signal doesn’t seem to be affected but it drops my DJI signal almost by half when he flies between me and my quad so it’s definitely doing something weird
Best way I can describe DJI latency: it is like when you play a game and suddenly turn ,Game Mode, off from your lcd tv. Maybe it won't matter much on GTA, but you won't win an assault at any fighting game.
I currently fly DJI (mostly O3) and Analog. I'd consider trying out HDZero but I don't like the digital snow and the lack of on-board DVR is a deal breaker for me, personally, after so much time with O3. I have an action cam on my Crux35 with Vista, but I rarely fly it because O3 is so much nicer. If I want to bash, I can fly analog. I'd like a second HD system that's compatible with small quads, but given I'm already used to O3's latency, Walksnail is probably where I'll end up. And your statement of "Oh, now I can see" is exactly what I don't really consider HDZero much of an HD system for general use.
I guess if i fly them back to back it might mess me up but i can fly dji one day and analog the next day and it doesn't really bother me. i guess i expect what I'm seeing in both. not to mention im racing in analog and doing freestyle on dji so that might play a factor.
Great video was very intertaning. I fly dji, anolog and hdzero. I like dji for its picture quality and the vtx is tuff and reliable. Anolog is great for its very lightweight and cheap and fast. HDzero gives anolog speed with a much better image but the vtx is not as durable as i would like for the cost.
Great video! In my humble opinion you would see a lot more progress and confidence in your freestyle if you find what rates you are most comfortable with. In this video it looks like your spins, corrections and saves overshoot your desired target and to me that is an issue with rates and not latency. Would enjoy a video of you tweaking and finding your correct rates :)
I'm starting to think I should have flown my DJI quad first before going to HDZ given the comments on my flying haha. it took me awhile to get to the rates I use on my O3 quad but going to HDZ initially I felt like my visual queue to stop a roll/pitch was way off because it felt like I was seeing faster, then I'd over compensate the other way... ironically going back to DJI I ended up having the same thing happen the other way around but I felt like I was stopping or turning too late. I'll probably do some figuring out of rates with the HDZ quad then see if I can just compensate with DJI rather than the other way around. But watch this space for video on rates!
To get around the problem of being a MAC user (me also) you can install Parallels Desktop VM and just use windows sometimes when you need inside MAC. Great explanatory vid. Can you compare Walksnail also?
i have recently switched to walksnail after flying analog for years. I dont notice that big of a difference in latency. Latency is NOT just in the goggles, i fly my goggles at 720p 100fps, 50mbps(lowest possible latency), run elrs 500hz , do a step response tunning (seriously you can cut 10ms just from your pid balance), play with FF. Im not saying is analog like latency but i am happy and i feel i fly better viewing things more clearly, also penetration is NUTS
I totally agree... I've been flying a meteor 65Pro around and I love it... I recently got the Air65 and Air75 and they're even better, totally changes the whoop experience... just wish HDZ was lighter to put in those
The weight difference of the systems is around 15-17g so pretty significant… however I didn’t apply the same weight saving I normally would with my DJI builds (eg titanium hardware/lightweight TPU etc) so the builds both came in at 249g
This is awesome, thanks for sharing it, but I also hate you because now i have to go buy it and try it. I have an Avata 2 and 3 Rotor Riot quads, all DJI, and I have just swtiched all of them to ELRS and started using the Boxer in place of the DJI remote 3. I did adjust my throttle midpoint and expo quite a bit as well as my expo on pitch and roll, but I also turned up my rates on pitch, roll, and yaw to moderately high. Anyway my point is just swtiching to the Boxer and ELRS was an immediate improvement in my acro and hitting gaps (I am still not great) and overall control with hovering and landing esp--I am nearly perfectly in control of where I land, and my hover is 1000x better just from the ELRS switch. I now feel like I need to try HDZero, and I have been considering a 2nd goggle option anyway as I want my son to take my Avata 2 and goggles 3 so I have a flying partner as going alone every day gets boring. I had been thinking Fat Shark though as that seems to be the more popular around the Rotor Riot team and others online. I also wanted to try analog because there are some really killer options for $200-300 in numerous highly rated quads because I think maybe having a non $600+ quad might make me be less hesitant to hit smaller gaps and attempt more acro through gaps. Anyway, thanks for the video review, great job in comparing and explaining and sparking my interest more into looking into Analog or perhaps at least other HD video systems and not just being a DJI fan boy (can't imagine giving up my image quality is going to make me happier with flying....). By the way, if you are having throttle control issues, instead of just banging your head into the wall practicing, lower your throttle midpoint to .1-.3ish and turn up the expo and keep adjusting until you find a low throttle response that suits you. I am not ashamed to admit that's what I did and it made my flying 1000X better which made it 10000x more fun, so let the haters laugh at me for the ridiculously high expo and low throttle midpoint (.20 TMP and .50 Expo). How often do you go over 50% throttle for more than 1-3 seconds anyway?
I honestly still love flying my DJI quads, going back to it after a day with analog still blows my mind on the image quality. That said if I had to choose between the DJI vista and HDZ I wouldn't hesitate to go with HDZ it just works way better at speed. But I'm always torn when I'm using an O3 quad because of that sweet image quality. I'm also really interested to see what these new HDZ goggles are like, right now walksnail seem to be killing it with the goggles L, and now analog integration in the goggles X plus being able to fly it on 1s whoops all the way up to much bigger quads. If you can get a pair of secondhand analog goggles I'd highly recommend it, and it's true, I just send my analog quads through gaps without worrying about breaking them whereas I'm a little more cautious with my DJI O3 quads. that said I definitely feel a difference when I'm gapping with analog or HDZ... I don't feel like I'm holding my breath hoping I'll get through as much, I just point it and send it.
Ahh and I almost forgot, I used to run expo on my throttle when I started FPV to tame it a little and make it easier to control/hover. However as I progressed I found it way more difficult to control without the linear throttle so I've used that ever since. The hovering in this video (which a few people have mentioned) was mainly because I was over correcting based on what I was seeing... I probably should have shown me hovering later once I was used to it. But since this first test of HDZ I can switch back and forth between DJI HDZ and analog and it doesn't take me as long for me to adjust anymore.
This is the one I have, I think it’s a generic one but it’s the only one out of the 5 I tried that is actually comfortable n-factory.de/Ultimate-Replacement-Foam-for-DJI-Goggles-2
You can change the dvr rec format btw. That being said…I’m converting from a long time apple user. Apple sucks now. Also, I’m a fast flying freestyle pilot and hdz is the way! Good video.
It's weird as I tried changing the format but still had the same issue.... on the whoop HDZ VTX it all works fine. I've figured out a workaround but still requires conversion (I think it's the 90fps h.265 throwing it off)
What camera, VTx, and antennas are you using on the analog version? The video looks so clear. I'm constantly trying to improve mine but just cant get it to look so good. Thank you
It’s HDZero rather than analog in this video using the HDZ nano 90cam with TrueRC patch antennas and foxeer stubbies on the goggles. For analog my dvr isn’t so clear so I’m current testing out a bunch of antennae to see if I can get something much clearer
I think you need to adjust your rates mate. Regardless of what you flying dji, analogue , hdz once your rates are set to you and your reaction speed you’ll become a better pilot.
That's actually something that was annoying me whilst I was doing this test. It took me ages to get my rates right for my normal DJI quads. Just before this I started flying whoops a lot and then had to increase the rates on roll. Going to HDZ where I would normally finish a roll/flip with my muscle memory wasn't translating to what I was seeing in the goggles... then going back to DJI I was expecting things to happen faster so came off the controls too early... then overcompensated etc... but I think it's a good shout... I might fix rates whilst flying HDZ and then just compensate for DJI rather than using the rates I'm used to.
Thanks for sharing your experience! What foam are you using with DJI goggles 2? Both original and a replacement foam from aliexpress - feel very uncomfortable:(
The foam I have is called Ultimate replacement foam for DJI goggles 2 (it’s German so very specific name 😂) n-factory.de/Ultimate-Replacement-Foam-for-DJI-Goggles-2
would of been nice to see more of the 10day footage. looks like just one day but it fully shows the latency you must experience with DJI. i never thought it would be that big of a change but dji must really be that much slower. or HD0 that much faster.
Thanks and I had planned on doing back to back full flights HDZ/ DJI on the last day but broke the damn antenna 🤦🏻♂️ and didn’t have a spare at the time. There will be more HDZ coming though I really like the system it’s been eye opening!
Me personally I haven't flown analog or HD zero, I bought directly into dji with there v2 goggles....I'm not a racer or anything but I am a gamer and it feels pretty much the same to me...(input latency ect. So I'm used to it and just want to stick with dji
Honestly that's how I felt going into this... and figured it wouldn't make much difference... but the best way to describe it is like playing online and using an old TV vs a gaming monitor... you don't realise how different it is until you try and play the same thing on the TV again. But if you're used to DJI I wouldn't switch just enjoy the flight... I enjoyed DJI way more before this
For the Mac & video conversion issue, I'm rather surprised that Mac can't handle .TS videos... They're a pretty standard file format - I had other devices that recorded in that format long before HDZero was around. But in any case, you should be able to just write a small script that uses ffmpeg to losslessly (stream copy) convert all .TS files in a given folder to .MP4 - and because it's stream copy mode, it should be extremely fast since there's no conversion of the video stream itself.
It’s not the TS file that’s the issue I think it’s the 90fps as even after converting the mp4 doesn’t work either but not having issues with 60fps recording. That said I used ffmpeg to convert to a h264 mp4 and it works perfectly… it’s just an additional step that still has to happen
@@GarethDix That'd be a pretty fundamental flaw in Mac if it can't handle 90 fps in an mp4 file... It might not be the framerate though: I think there is something about the 90 fps video mode recording in a different codec than the 60 fps mode. Like one's h264 and the other's h265. Could be that your Mac doesn't support one of the two. Might be able to download a "codec pack" to fix it, or simplest is to use a different video player - what player do you use now? I use VLC a lot and it works great. Do 100 fps or something recordings from your DJI goggles play on the Mac? 'Cause if so then it's likely the codec not the fps.
@Vousie so yes it looks like at 90fps it’s in h.265 at all other frame rates it’s in h.264. I shoot video with my cameras at 120fps and 100fps and never had an issue but with more digging it looks like Apple refused to support h.265
@Vousie vlc could play the files but not convert them so I’m using ff-works which is a shell for ffmpeg. VLC player on the mac only lets you convert individual files for some reason whereas ff-works can convert multiple files
@@GarethDix RIght, but your original issue was the extra step of converting so many files before you can go through them to see which ones you wanted to use. Now you can use VLC to check through them and then only convert the ones yo uwant to use.
It's called Ultimate replacement foam - n-factory.de/Ultimate-Replacement-Foam-for-DJI-Goggles-2 I've tried about 5 different foams and this was the only one that was any good... there's no nose piece though
Was u even running it in the low latency mode? Or a higher definition mode? I fly analog and Walksnail, Walksnail is much lower latency then DJI but no where near as low as analog or HDzero, but yeah going from analog to Walksnail like you do definitely feel it, slower reactions and such, i fly analog during winter wet months and Walksnail summer, after winter going back to walksnail always feels like wading in waist deep water instead of jogging on a track or walking in sand. Dji was unflyable for me due to it makes me feel ill! Hdzero and analog video quality difference just isn't enough to make a difference for me, im happy with my analog which i have flown for 9 years now, but Walksnail is super enjoyable, i have tried Walksnails race mode, i just dont like the image, it was too distracting to notice if latency was better. FYI, Alot of people keep trying to compare analog on hd goggles like dji v2 or hdzero goggles which adds alot more latency doing the conversion, which just isn't the same as using something like hdo2, orcas, or skyzone analog goggles, i got my goggle x with intention of selling my hdo2 which there just is no way thats going to happen... Since you have the hdzero googles you really should tey a Walksnail VRX on them with the moon light and do same kinda video comparing the moonlight to the DJI... Sure googlex would be better latency, but I'd really like to see someone do that to see what they thought, but also take in consideration that Walksnail has the 1s lite vtx that can run on a tinywhoop vs o3...
Yes I did all my testing in the 540p 90fps mode, I'll try testing the 720p 60fps mode this weekend to see if the image is better. but I totally understand how you feel going back to walksnail, I've been flying my DJI quad since filming this and it now always feels like something is off. I fly analog with my whoops and may do a larger build at some point as well. I'm using the analog module on the HDZ goggles but might have to try a pure analog goggle to see what it's like. Walksnail is on the list to try now they have the moonlight camera and 1s vtx for whoops... but rather than the module I might have to give the goggles L a go as they work out cheaper!
@@GarethDix i hear the goggles L are great, but in my experience the dual screen does give a better feel for proximity, even though it isn't true effect, your eyes are just more relaxed and you can definitely tell distance better. When it comes to the latency i think we can feel 10-15 millisecond in my opinion, it may not make a huge difference in performance, but i think at least 20 millisecond does
I find analog even better, cheaper, easy to use. The video quality is enough. And is clearly better for long range, with video feedback of the link quality. HDZero is good, but after tried it, i want back on full analog. (Also don't put an analog module on the HDZero goggles, its messes up the glitch's)
Until I got these I honestly didn't even want to bother with analog, but I've been flying a lot of whoops with these and an analog module and I'm enjoying it way more than I thought I would. But yeah the image quality doesn't look like it's as good as I see some analog pilots using so I'll have to do some more investigating on that side
I think u have a faulty module then. Works like a charm for me. The only thing i had was a faulty right screen. It died from one day to the other... was fixed in 5 days tho. Outstanding customer service from Gao.
@@GarethDix The goggles have issues when the signal get lower. And also the colors flickers way more. It still works, but for some goggles that are advertised as "the best analog goggles" on it's website... I don't think that they are updating those issues anymore (not sure). But in the end, if your having fun and it works, well that fine!
Funny that many pilots fly aggressive bando freestyle through ultra tight gaps and in brutal locations using DJI. Can't be so bad, then. Those situations would scream for low latency.
I think from all the comments I’ve been getting on that statement, I should have been more specific in the video… it was that specific whoop I was referring to as it’s heavy and underpowered. I have a few analog whoops with loads of power and I love them. The 2023 mob6 HDZ just isn’t one of them
@Sugar_K I’m about to upgrade this one with webleed screamers and a new frame so I can’t wait to see what happens! I hadn’t realised the HDZ AIO was already out but that’s a complete gamechanger if it’s good!
This is the foam I use for the DJI Goggles 2, I have tried about 5 different ones and this is the only one that is comfortable for my face. however it doesn't have a nose piece but I honestly don't need it (apparently my nose it too big) n-factory.de/Ultimate-Replacement-Foam-for-DJI-Goggles-2
For me its not like the DJI latency is high its just that its inconsistent and fucks with me. If it was 50ms with no variability it would be easier for me to compensate. Even HDZERO 1080p @ 30fps doesnt bother me
I'd have thought DJI would have put a fixed latency mode in there somehow especially as walksnail offer it. I didn't think I was that sensitive to it until after this... ignorance was bliss!
I have vista quads but here I was using an O3. I would happily convert all my vista quads to HDZero as in my opinion I prefer the HDzero image as you don’t get that weird compression as you start to travel faster
Is possible to record directly from the camera so interference/connectivity issues will not be shown in the recording? something like putting a microsd card in the vtx to have it record locally.
Great video of what you experienced with HDZ Gareth 👍 I‘ve also got HDZ, analog, DJI and Walksnail and I can very much relate what you found. Some people are also much more sensitive to latency than others. There are a variety of foams for the HDZ goggles that should make them more comfortable. I had the issue that my face wouldn‘t fit the newer DJI goggles so I always prefered Walksnail or HDZ goggles 🤣 wich foam are you using on them? Take care mate
I think given some of the things walksnail is currently doing I need to give that a go too... when DJI O4 comes I'm sure it'll be over $300 an air unit. Any particular foam you're using on the HDZ goggle that you'd recommend? I think I've got a workaround for the video file issue but if I could get that foam perfect I would 100% be using these more often on the Goggles 2 this is the foam I'm using, I've tried about 5 different types and this is the one that I've stuck with n-factory.de/Ultimate-Replacement-Foam-for-DJI-Goggles-2
Some people just aren't sensitive for high latency. My collegues say that they don't feel the difference at at, but i wasn't flying digital for one season after getting it - it was making me nauseating. Same colleagues says that high fps screen isn't making any difference for them. For me it's like night and day.
I think in that first flight I only noticed it because my control was all over the place, but was surprised how different it felt... going back to DJI and feeling disconnected from the quad I fly the most... like it's someone else's was surreal. I enjoyed HDZ way more than I thought I would though as a result!
One thing that is also a factor. And get me wrong ive listened and skipped a few parts.. is your input latency. By the looks of your osd.. you are flying crossfire.. When I flew analogue.. and even now 03.. I still notice the lag in input.. for this test. Mayb it was better to boost tlto 500mw or more output.. and get 2:100 the entire time in that small park. Then u know the latency is lurely the image..
I kept the crossfire output the same in both tests to make sure it was consistent but yes I can up the output and see how that feels too. I’m slowly moving my builds over to ELRS so let’s see how that goes
This is actually what I was thinking based on some of the other comments on rates... I might actually go through the process of adjusting my rates with HDzero and then seeing if I can just adapt to it with DJI rather than the other way round
Weird… as most top freestyle content creators these days are flying the 03 with the exception of Steele and a handful of others. I just fky what visually looks better. Long gone are the days of flying through static and snow when going into tree groups or around buildings. My style is comparable to some snappy stuff mixed with flow. I just don’t see why the analog vs digital is even still a thing as most have picked their side and got what works for them
The HDZero Micro V3/2 camera with 720p60fps probably would have been better for pic quality and decent low latency, especially for freestyle. Sort of a compromise.
I'm actually going to try out the nano 90 cam at 720p 60fps this weekend hopefully. I did a bench test and it even solves the issue I've been having with the video files too so it could be a win win... I just hope it feels the same as the 90fps
@@GarethDix yeah I think for freestyle it still feels pretty snappy at 720p60. I do feel like the pic quality on the Micro cameras is still better though.
Yes both quads weigh exactly the same as I didn't have to do the same weight saving as I did with the DJI O3 version (e.g. titanium hardware, lightweight TPU, shorter wires etc). so I guess technically the weight distribution will be slightly different as well as the ends of the arms will have a little more weight too
I flew analog for about 7 years, then switched to o3 in November 2023, I can clearly see I keep adjusting all the time because I am disconnected to the quad. A couple weeks ago I flew one of my analog quads again, and man, I felt like I was Vanover. I like how DJI looks, but the connection I feel with analog is just so good.
This is my biggest takeaway from flying after filing this. It still feels very weird to fly DJI again… I can compensate for it and I can fly it, but it always feels like something is slightly off… I’m actually regretting trying this now as I would never have known there was something better 😂
I must have missed the memo...still flying freestyle w/hdzero.
Yep same,I fly walksnail but lately I've gone back to Analogue and it's been a blast especially as you don't need to think about crashing and breaking a hd camera, Analogue is so much cheaper to replace.
I changed a year ago. 2 weeks ago I tried out one of my analog quads again. When I got home i took out the VTX and ordered another O3 lol
That’s why when it came time to replace my old HD3’s, I got the HDZero goggles, cause all I flew was analog. The interlacing was an immediate unexpected benefit. Ten I could ease my way into hd as I bought HDZero quads. Don’t regret my choice. Would never buy anything from that proprietary company DJI
I'm nearly 60 years old and got into racing shortly after I started FPV. I'm old and slow but love it. I flew analogue for a good while but picked up an HDZero VRX on flash sale when they launched the HDZero goggles.The VRX does not support 540p 90fps but the VRX and my Skyzone O4X goggles with OLEDs are still a pretty low latency combo. I've gradually moved most of my quads to HD0. It has been said HD0 is for the really quick pilots but I'm more of the opinion that older and slower pilots notice the difference even more. The young guys at my club can race anything and be quick. If I change anything at all it throws me off for at least 6 packs.
Switching from a 25 degree camera angle freestyle quad to a 50 degree race quad used to mess with my brain. Now I have both down and can switch in 1 pack. I'd like to try DJI but whenever I've tried other people's DJI it has felt all weird. I'm afraid if I bought my own then it would take me another 12 months to be able to add that third set of muscle memory to my brain.
Your video seems to back up my thoughts. Thanks for a great vid.
I think at some point I’ll get used to switching between the two, I didn’t think it would feel as different as it does. Going back to DJI afterwards was quite a shock, it took a few packs to get used to it again but I hope this will become easier as I’d love to be able to fly both
I'm 46 and I just got into fpv. I'm flying good old analog and I'd love to try dji air unit and it's goggles. Only problem is the budget.
I fly analog and DJI. The first time I tried DJI I felt like I was having half a second delay and couldn't handle it. Now, I switch in between the two systems even on the same flying session and I don't notice it. What I do notice and can't explain is that analog feels more immersive to me. DJI is so clean it feels more like I'm watching a screen.
That's a really good description... and going back to DJI from HDZ that delay although small felt really strange and I'm sure I'll get to the point where I can switch between the two easily... right now it still takes me a couple of packs to readjust every time I use the other. For me the O3 image that takes up all of the goggles feels more immersive when I'm cruising around... but there's definitely a much greater feeling of being connected to the quad with HDZ...
@@GarethDix I mean, the O3 image is really amazing, but for me the clincher is that you said you managed to save the quad multiple times on HDZero that you wouldn't have been able to on DJI... I don't like needlessly damaging my gear.
Fair review. I've been on HDZero since 2021 and I love the system, but I can totally get why someone raised on DJI would have a hard time switching back and forth between systems, and why they might not decide to make HDZ their daily driver. It's pretty specialized for racing, and the performance envelope for range and penetration more closely resembles analog, where I came from. For me, it was a straight upgrade from analog in every way, and being into racing made it a no-brainer to stick with it. I've yet to be interested enough in DJI to buy it, but I have flown it. It's impressive, but it felt dull compared to 60 Hz HDZ, and 90 Hz certainly blows it out of the water in terms of pure flight feel. I can adapt to higher latency, to the point that I wouldn't notice anymore, but the knowledge that I'm being held back would always be there. That slight bit of uneasyness would always be there. Fine for certain flight styles, but proximity flight would be a bit harder. With HDZero, the machine gets out of your way and unlocks substantially more of your potential.
Ignore the comments about your flying. You're doing well and flying smoothly without a lot of micro-corrections or sloppiness. People nowadays are spoiled by watching top pilots all the time and waaayyy overestimate their own skill.
Since filming this I find myself reaching for the HDZ quad way more often. As a daily driver it’s actually not about the system itself just the goggle comfort (which the comments have given me some options) and the file handling. Otherwise I would probably fly this way more than DJI now.
In a way I kind of wish I hadn’t tried it… a sort of ignorance is bliss type thing. I was happy with DJI, but now it always feels like something is off which I never had an issue with before.
For your flying style DJI is good enough. Hdzero is for racers and people who fly crazy fast in close proximity like Nick Burns and many others. If you want to feel one with the drone, a connection beyond image quality and experience the incredible sensation when you hit gaps zipping through obstacles and race course getting your adrenaline super high, sweating and trembling fingers the crazy experience of fast FPV then HDzero is for you.
I fly Analog and HDzero mainly, I wish HDZero had better penetration at least as good as analog, other than that I got no complaints.
I completely agree… but the weird thing for me trying HDZ is that it made me realise what’s possible flying wise… I wasn’t ever really interested in that snappy quick freestyle but it feels so natural to push that side of things with HDZ. Even since recording this going back to DJI I’m pushing the quad a lot more than before because I know it can do it
HDz love on my whoops.. I started doing walksnail but realized it dies at 3.06v and 1s whoops will get to 3.0v or 2.9v at lower voltages thr blips so it shut off. HDzero goes to 2.75v
@@divingfalconfpv4602The newest eco goes down that far, but the image quality is basically slightly better analog. That said, fractal sells a booster that only weighs 0.4 grams(tiny bit under actually) and allows you to remotely shut off the vtx power via switch on the radio. Well worth the $6.99 and allows 1s walksnail to run down below 3v.
This is some alright flying for someone starting out. Just keep at it, and you'll be more smooth with it!
Skyzone Sk04x fake leather foam fits hdzero perfectly. Also i think your lens wants a bit of adjustment, it can look a bit sharper than that.
Sounds like the skyzone O4 foam is the way to go!
I’ll take a look at the lens I thought it was just because it was 540p thanks!
I did not know that about the preference towards PC systems. Thanks for making light of this point.
in one of the discord channels I brought this up and seems like a few other Mac users were having issues at 90fps. at 60fps it seems the files work just fine
I always flew analog before HD was a thing recently got the DJI fpv drone and honestly I can never go back to analog now and even with o3 I don't notice any latency
You'll notice it if you put high image quality on.
i started with o3 in fpv, them i decided to build one analog quad, now i prefer fly and build analog quads, just left o3 for long range and smooth flying. but.. there is a trick with dji which improves the latency feel. use the ham file and select manually a 20 mhz channel, and set resolution to 1080, 100 fps, it really helps.
I feel like that’s what’s happened to me after filming this video… DJI hasn’t really felt the same so although I’ll still use it I’m definitely planning on more HDZ / analog quads
I’ll check out that trick thanks!
@5:50 so you're gonna love Betaflight 4.6 because it has Disarm on Landing now. It works GREAT! Off by default, in the OSD menu under MISC under TPA is EZ landing something something. Try setting it to 50 (less is more sensitive, higher is less sensitive). Then just land and lower your throttle... its like magic 😁
How is recording and the VTX power handled with Disarm on Landing? Do you need to Pre-arm and arm again to continue flying? Thanks
that could be a game changer... usually my terrible landing is because I blip the throttle and disarm whilst in the air haha... but I look forward to trying it out
Seems like that could cause more issues than it solves, especially if it falsely triggers on bumps.
@@conorstewart2214 I haven't tried wall taps with a whoop yet, the only way it's going to trigger is if you have your throttle all the way down and your roll and pitch totally centered and then tap over the threshold.
I love analog.. but my dji freestyle quads can fly behind and thru buildings amd trees and I don't have to worry about dropout of video
If you want fly proximity analogue or hdzero is best.
The other digital systems will gradually nudge you away from wanting to fly proximity into basically just cruising.
I find with HDZERO you can almost look through the image to see the world you're flying but with avatar/dji your kind of just aware you're staring at a screen.
I think HDZERO and Analogue perfectly capture the motion of the flight but the other digital systems seem to get more unsettled by rapid motion in the view.
That’s pretty accurate… I don’t think I really noticed it until trying HDZ. What I have found is when I’m hitting gaps with HDZ I tend not to clench up hoping I don’t hit something. Which is what I always do with DJI. But yeah really impressed by how different it feels from DJI
One thing people never get is that analog still uses digital cameras, digital vtx, digital goggles. And so just cause you are on analog is no guarantee to have low latency. Fixed, yeah but low ... It depends. My analog staten before 03 gave me 20 Ms of latency. 14 Ms on the cam, 4 on the vtx and 6 on the goggles. Now with DJI I got 25 to 36 Ms but usually I manage to have it be stable at 26. So I never noticed latency difference with analog. Now hdzero 90 and under 14 Ms, I would love to try it!!!
Weirdly HDZ got me flying analog a lot more too… and analog being that happy medium has helped me transition between the systems way more easily than I did in this video a few months back
I enjoyed your video. I've only flown HDZero for little more than a year! Lately I have been wondering about DJI! But can't afford a switch!
the image quality of the O3 will blow you away... it did that after to me after flying two weeks with HDZero... but it does feel different to fly
Currently using and really like the Pyrodrone HDZERO goggle foam.
A few people have mentioned the same foam so I’ll give it a go! Thanks!
the Pyrodrone foam is designed by the same guy that made your current DJI foam. I was "testhead" for that foam and helped design it. Later he made foams for Walksnail and HDZERO too after many asked for it. Pyrodrone sells them branded as theirs, but also other shops sell them in US and EU.
@proshotfpv5337 that’s completely sold me on it the DJI version of that foam is so good
@@GarethDix yeah it took some effort to get something that works for Caucasian face structures on a goggle molded on an Asian face😂. But in the end after some revisions we had something that allowed eyes to come close enough for good focus for many of us and still being comfortable. Glad you like it. According to the manufacturer the Pyrodrone foam for HDZ should have a similar face fit. Haven't tried it myself though as I only have the dji system myself.
Someone probably already said this but you have to format your sd card as fat32 on your mac first and then you can use it on your hdz goggles and record as mp4 instead of .ts and you'll be able to read it and go straight into imovie or davinci. I still record as .ts because it supports unplugging and not having to close the .mp4 file to keep it from corrupting. You can also upgrade your vtx and camera by saving the update file on your sd card in your goggles and using a cable to your vtx from your goggles.
For me picture quality is everything. If you have a computer with a RTX 4090 and you run it on a 14” 720 dpi monitor it totally defeats the object. Hence, even though it has its haters, it is DJI all the way for me until someone comes up with a realistic alternative.
Think of it more like gaming online using that RTX so graphically it’s immersive AF, but your ping is 300ms.
I use both systems and each has its merits and downfalls
Interesting video and take.
I fly analogue and digital. Have used pretty much all of them (because I can afford it) and each brand has its own uniqueness amd capabilities. In a good hands and skills of a pilot, adjustments and compensation can be made for the flight.
FYI, I've been in this hobby for more than a decade and have seen the rapid change in technology. Things get better.
I agree the more I’ve flown both the easier it’s been to switch between the two and I love them for different reasons the first pack always feels a little iffy but much less of a shock as it was when I recorded this
Great review, im currently on vacation brought my hdzero goggles, pocket radio and aos 35, running 4s with 1505 motors with 3400kv. Im using the hdzero v3 cam with the freestyle vtx. Its annoying I dont have the cable to unlock 1 watt, thanks Carl lol. Honestly switching from crossfire to elrs was a game changer, I found 1watt crossfire really intefered with the video.
ahh that's really interesting, I rarely fly far away so haven't had to jack my tx power up on crossfire. all I have found is that if I go to 1watt on ELRS my batteries don't last very long in my radio!
I use the foam from the skyzone o4x work perfect for me no light leakage.
When superb racer Vanover tried DJI for the first time he said he could notice a very slight delay, but he could adjust to it. In the video, they ran multiple laps of a legit race track. In the end after running lots of laps with both analog and DJI he ended up having his fastest lap with analog, but I think it beat DJI 's fastest lap by 3 or 4 HUNDREDS OF A SECOND. He said he could easily adjust to the very slight additional latency, but it was no big deal. HDzero and analog have the same latency.
It's something most don't even notice, including myself. But, some want to make a big deal about it.
I'd like to make a big deal about how crappy the image quality is on HDZero, especially how short a distance you can fly close to the ground. 100 meters and full on square color pixels and rainbow screen of death! DJI can fly forever and a day and still have superb image quality so you can explore so far with a crystal clear image it's crazy. That's not even taking about flying around buildings, of which HDZero can't fly 50 feet around a corner of a building and it's done!
I totally agree about the image quality difference, and I can also go between analog and hdzero and walksnail in the same session, my brain adjusts, as it does for different power quads, brushed/brushless etc. But I've noticed not everyone can adjust. Some people get totally disoriented by the slight change, even feeling nauseous. For these people hdzero is perfect... But we are all different, we need these choices, and we need to stop putting crap on other systems because choice is important
HDzero 90 is faster than analogue by a noticeable margin. Makes a big difference for racing.
Do you mean that O3 has bigger penetration inside a city ?
I saw that there are 10 watts analog VTX, I wonder if that would allow to not lose connection if you fly behind a building.
@Anadrolus With more power multipathing (reflections of the video signal bouncing between buildings) can often make the image worse. ... sure, It is possible that running higher power could stop you completely losing video signal as fast but due to how it adversely affects image quality, the trick is to run your VTX at as low power as possible for your particular urban environment.
@@paulhope3401 thank you so much, very interesting answer, I would have never guessed that the power could be too high
Thanks for the info regarding MacOS compatibility! Nobody mentions that. Wanted to buy the HDZero, but now I will stay away! Fantastic video!
So the firmware update dongle is only PC but I’ve found that the file issue only happens with 90fps footage. I’ve also found a workaround to convert the files quickly to make them work on a Mac but it’s still an extra step. 60fps works well though
I fly HDZero since about a year and got to try DJI on one of my friend's quad lately and I got to say, I'm happy that I did not go with DJI when I made my decision ! I guess it's a matter of being used to it, but as soon as I took off, I felt like something wasn't right for me.. We were crusing in a forest through trees and I did not feel confident enough to roam around at all haha. The goggles 3 didn't have enough diopter adjustments for me to have a clear image though, that surely didn't help! I think some people are less affected by latency overall, which is why this "debate" on how latency affects flying or not will never end.
Yeah I didn’t realise what a controversial topic this is… I definitely feel more confident flying HDZ but not so much when I’m in trees as that 540p resolution is a killer compared to DJI. But if anything it’s made me feel that I’m missing something flying DJI when I never had done before
I had been flying HDZero for over a year after flying analog for 8+ years..I finally switched to DJI and you can imagine how much I have struggled with the latency... To add insult to injury, I decided to switch controllers and so I have switched from pinching to thumbs.... I'm still after several weeks struggling with freestyle that used to come so easily... The upside is much better image and range and I've just kinda switched modes to be more cruising... So latency is definitely a thing and definitely affects the flying .. Some adjust more early to it... It's been a struggle for me.
As for your reasons to not use it...I can completely agree. I've switched to PC but used Mac for many years and hdzero did make that more of a pain...
The main issue I ran into with hdzero though was quality control with the cameras getting specks of dust on the sensor and durability issues.
I'm glad I switched though even with the struggles.
I am literally about to switch controllers 😂
But yes I totally agree with you, I think weirdly for me I enjoyed flying HDZ way more than I thought I would and although I think most people will go with one system or another but I’ll definitely keep flying both as they have different applications.
I haven’t seen the QC issues yet with HDZ yet but I’ve definitely had issues with O3 cameras and the lens being loose… which makes that $250 way harder to swallow
Why switch from pinching to thumbs?! I personally wouldn’t be able to fly like that. That’s a big change.
For me it’s just the radio I’m changing… that said the gimbals feel way different
@@GarethDix Looks like a Tango 2 in the video? What radio are you switching to? The full-sized RadioMaster gimbals have been my favorite so far.
Couldn’t you just change to longer sticks to let you pinch again?
The new 1w hdzero vtx is a game changer vs where they were a year and a half ago on smaller quads limiting it to 250mw. What I have noticed is the lack of a fan in the Goggles 2 and Goggles X that drives me nuts in hot weather vs the fans in hdzero goggles. You can also set the recording file type via the HDZ Goggles as well. Nice work!
that fan is loud... but I agree that helps soooo much in hot weather!
It's one of the main problems with the DJI goggles the best setup is an analogue camera and a separate HD camera for filming because you can set the two cameras up differently one for flying ones for filming
I am currently looking at a Runcam Thumb Pro, I've destroyed plenty of external cameras in crashes that when the O3 came out it was a better option... but if I can run HDZ with an ext camera and keep it under 250g that's even better
Haha great video! Was really funny as you said: the image quality 😂 and me thinks of all the years I flown in nearly black and white and 240p and horrible signal quality 😂 but yeah sure dji looks incredible but as you get used to lower quality video feed, it doesn't matter at all. Like your brain is looking at the trees, buildings, ground whatever and not the nice hdr cinematic picture composition 😅
For me it's not so much that DJI has a higher latency but it's that it's variable... I'm not that fast if a racer and not all that great at freestyle but having a determined response that is consistent makes the difference for me.
I fly whoops in analogue and HDZ, a DJI avata (O3) and a 3.5" analog. I do notice going from an analogue to HDZ whoop regarding latency. At first, I crashed a lot going back to analogue because I got used to quick reaction, proxi flying about the house evading a chompy dog. But eventually, I got used to the two. Though, I'm a lot more confident with HDZ. Definitely one for racing. Hey, but we are each our own pilots so whatever works works.
I would love to have HDZ on more of my whoops but the one I’m using in this video is sooooo heavy it kind of ruined the experience of me so all my other whoops are analog.
I’m hoping the new HDZ AIO is fairly light so I can try this out. But the mob6 HDZ from this video I’ve been upgrading it to see if I can get it to fly like a decent whoop
Bro! First, I love your videos because you always think of unique, entertaining, and informative ideas. I've built a few analog racing quads and I love the way they fly. I recently decided to build an analog 5" freestyle bird and I was blown away! As you know, I started with DJI and the vast majority of my fleet are O3AUs and Vistas. I figured since I've got these fancy Skyzone O4X Pro goggles, I might as well try a little analog freestyle. The bird flies AMAZING! It feels so "locked in" (now that I actually know what that means) I'm using high-quality analog VTX and Camera (Rush Max Solo 2.5w and Foxeer Predator 5 Micro) so the image isn't even bad. I can do proxy work and not worry too much about "ghost branches". I still love my DJI quads, but they don't have that same "locked in" feeling as the analog bird does. At the risk of spending even more money on the fourth and final FPV system, I might have to pick up some HD Zero gear and give it a go. (I wasn't a huge fan of Walksnail, BTW.) Anyway, Its always great to see a notification from your channel! Keep up the great work!
Thanks!! I actually have a Speedybee TX800 sitting on the bench that I'm considering putting into a 5inch just to see if I can fly a big quad with analog and I'm trying to get hold of a Foxeer Predator to put in it too. I've been bashing analog whoops around for awhile now and it's been a lot of fun and I don't miss the O3 image quality.... until I go back to the O3 and it's like "WOW". I completely understand that feeling of going back to DJI though and thinking that something is off when flying... I honestly thought this was because people didn't like DJI as a company, but I've been converted. Flying my DJI quads now has been hilarious though it's like riding a bike except when you turn the handlebar the wheel is going the other way haha.
The main reason I got HDZ goggles was because I could put an analog module on them too... the skyzone goggles I looked at weren't that much cheaper... although I'm sure the analog image is way better than what I get.
The difference between 60 fps and 90fps is also quite noticeable when flying near stuff.
I friend of mine who moved from DJI to HDZero to race is using the DJI foam on HDZero goggles :)
I'm going to try the 60fps mode this weekend to see what the image quality is like and hopefully it's a happy medium. I'll take a look and see if my DJI goggle foam fits as I thought it would be too small but that will save me some money if it does!
@@GarethDix what DJI goggles are you using? You could maybe change the settings for better latency.
The goggles V2 with the o3 air unit have 40 ms latency at 60 fps and 28 ms latency at 120 fps. The goggles 3, goggles integra and goggles 2 have 40 ms latency at 60 fps and 30 ms latency at 100 fps.
When the o4 air unit comes out it should get better similar to how it is with the Avata 2 with the goggles 3 with the latency being 40 ms at 60 fps and 24 ms at 100 fps.
In comparison hdzero claims to get as low as 14 ms latency at 90 fps and 20 ms at 60 fps.
So the DJI goggles even at their best aren’t as good as analogue or hdzero in terms of latency but you can still improve the DJI goggles latency by changing your settings.
Nurk FPV did a great test of DJI vs Analog for racing. He ran many packs on a race course (maybe 20 packs) using each system. He was faster with analog but not by much... if memory serves, only like a second per lap which is unacceptable if you are trying to be a top racer. What he did prove is unless you are a top 1% pilot you can fly DJI and achieve very close to the same results as with analog but get the huge benefit to the experience of flying with the awesome view.
I’ll take a look I haven’t seen that video. Not that I think I’ll be racing any time soon, but it does feel very different to fly. It’s a bit like going from playing video games on an old TV and switching to a gaming monitor. it’s not going to turn someone into a pro gamer but going back to the TV you realise what you’re missing out on.
When I fly with my DJI O3 quad now I got used to it again but it feels like something is slightly off
I switched from hdzero to dji and tbh DJI is the better choice for 90% or the freestyle/LR/cruise pilots.
The latency might be lower, but the range and penetration feels like switching from crossfire/elrs to Frsky
I'd agree I think you can't really go wrong with DJI... but there's definitely something about flying HDZero that made me want to fly more aggressively
As a Mac user and HDZERO fanatic I do wish the programmer had software for Mac. But the video files are viewable on Mac either the VLC video player.
I have DJI also for certain applications but find myself enjoying the racing community and HDZERO a lot. Thx for the video 😎
The issue with VLC player is that on a Mac you have to convert them one by one... and for some reason converting the 90fps files just wasn't possible. I found a workaround with ff-works and it works great.
But yeah I agree I still like flying DJI... but I have found a weird love for HDZero since I filmed this
Years ago, my brother gifted me a FatShark and a BetaFPV85. I liked training FPV on the simulator, and I managed to fly the BetaFPV85 accurately through my flat and later a 5-inch freestyle outside. Still, the video quality always bothered me, and I eventually lost interest. A couple of months ago, I bought the DJI Avata 2, and I was impressed by the video quality, and it caught my attention again. I now have a current 5-inch AOS 5 V5 and a Flylens 85 lite, and I love it now and have flown every day since - all because of the DJI video quality. =)
I use an after market foam on my HD Zero goggles so they are available - no light leaks and comfortable even when loaded up with a Walksnail VRX. Have pretty much completely switched to Walksnail for image quality, flexibility etc. and don’t want to get locked into the DJI ecosystem. If I become a better freestyle pilot I might do another Hd Zero build but Walksnail is fine for my flying needs.
any idea what that aftermarket foam is called? I'll take a look. I hadn't really thought about walksnail until recently with the moonlight camera and goggles L they're fast becoming a good option and I'm sure I'll test it out soon
Having tried all the big 3 I like walksnail best. It has extremely low latency. Low enough to make it a non issue anymore at the same time as being HD. And you can tune the video transmitter settings to get down to like 18-20ms. Which is wild btw.
I do need to try walksnail given what they've been releasing recently I think caddx are onto something good there
I've yet to experience analog myself. First drone I ever flown was avata 1. I never felt latency on my avata 1. Fly it through very tight spaces that are like 1ft by 1ft big with no problems at all. Maybe my mind is somehow compensating for the latency? Now that I've seen this, I'm going to pay attention to my next flight and see if I can notice any sort of latency.
I’ve flown DJI based quads since I started the hobby and honesty had no idea why people complained about latency with DJI. But this was pretty eye opening and it’s kinda ruined my thinking why anyone would fly anything other than DJI except cost.
You probably wont be able to notice the latency in normal flight if you aren’t flying something else (kind of like not knowing what it’s supposed to fly like if it wasn’t there) but if you fly into a building or behind a large tree far away you’ll feel the video feed slow down a little just for a short period of time. You don’t really get this with HDZ or analog you just get interference with the picture instead.
@GarethDix I see. Yes that type of flight is out of by ball park. I usually fly it a half mile out in wide open field with small trees, cactuse and no buildings nearly. Yep that's all I got where I live in arizona... nothing. When I mentioned small spaces earlier that's when I fly it indoors which it shouldn't have latency issues since I am right there next to it
You can save to MP4 instead of TS format, settings in the goggles
The MP4’s the V2 freestyle unit generates still have to be converted. On the whoop lite VTX it works straight off. It’s to do with the h.265 codec being used
@GarethDix Update the goggles and vtx. Never had that problem and i have almost every vtx (except the v1 freestyle because of the crappy formfactor) .
That’s what I also thought so it was the first thing I did but still had the same issue. I’ve found a workaround though
I really liked the video! Interesting topic and wonderful quality.
Just can't believe the straight up rudeness of some of the comments you've gotten. Fly the way you want and upload as many videos as you want.
I personally picked hdzero as I was interested in tiny whoops and was ok with sacrificing some of the performance for better image quality. I however remain very interested in also dji and walksnail and will probably try out one or the other in the future!
Thanks… and I’m ok with the comments… a lot of people found it interesting regardless of me not being a pro pilot.
But I’m hoping the new whoop AIO will be really light as I’ve gotten used to flying analog whoops but miss that HDZero image.
DJI O3 and I’m guessing WS moonlight quality will be like nothing you’ve ever seen, but I think it’ll feel very strange to fly fast if you’ve only flown HDZero… but it’s still amazing
What mode do you have the DJI system in? I believe the video filming mode is the mode that gets sent to the goggles too, so if you have it set to 30 fps then that is what goes to the goggles, same with 60 and 100 fps. Hence most pilots fly with it on 60 fps to get a balance between latency, frame rate and file size.
I'm running DJI at 4k 60fps... I'm going to test out HDZero at 60fps but I'll also try DJI at 100fps and see how that feels
I’m not sure if you touched on this. Biggest difference for me from 03 to HDZ was switching from 16:9 to 4:3. That makes it way harder to judge how close you are to objects if you aren’t used to it.
Also a Mac user. I made a folder with the unzipped files for each portion of firmware updating and power unlocking. Since they all need to be named the same gets confusing if you do it from download. I basically only fly HDZ anymore. Love having every size from whoop to 5” on the same goggle
Actually that's a good point I didn't mention that... I think weirdly for me 4:3 just feels very odd as 16:9 feels more immersive... but I hadn't considered that I can see more vertical as a result... actually that's quite interesting with that in mind I'll think about that as I fly HDZ this weekend again. But yes I totally get what you mean about the firmware... I've been deleting it from my folders as soon as I know it's working so there's no confusion, just wish that dongle I bought would work on a Mac!
@@GarethDix after getting used to 4:3 I find myself flying much closer to the ground than I did with 03. I think both have their use cases. If I’m doing hard “sbangy” freestyle I prefer hdz. But if I just want to sit in my truck and not point towards my quad 03 wins there for sure.
As someone who flies HDZ, and has also had their turn trying DJI on my quads, I can definitely feel the difference. Being so used to the fixed, super low latency of HDZ, the DJI system is really disorientating for me, especially with that variable latency.
I'm surprised DJI haven't just added a fixed latency mode. Sure HDZ hasn't got the same penetration as DJI but I've been able to fly through really bad breakup on HDZ whereas the stuttering in the video on DJI always ends up with me crashing
@@GarethDix imo HDZero is actually better than DJI for long range, mainly because it reconnects instantly instead of having to wait for the handshake process to finish, which can take up to 5 seconds on DJI. Also, I like how HDZero's breakup gives you a "warning" when you're reaching your max range, where other, compressed HD systems like DJI or Walksnail will just randomly drop out.
on DJI it gives a red line to warn you that you're loosing signal that grows as the connection starts to drop... the problem is that it appears all of a sudden and then your connection is gone. Not that I fly long range, but certainly when I'm flying behind things. but yeah that breakup is a better warning than the camera just lagging all of a sudden!
@@GarethDixdji can’t do fixed latency because of how their system works fundamentally. It gets such a good image at the cost of higher latency because when processing what to send when (frames) it waits till a good image (frame) is assembled and then sends it, this takes longer and is variable. HDz and analog just send the frames as they become available with noise etc at a consistent rate (fixed latency), which is a fundamentally different approach.
Wonder the difference running DJI 03 with ELRS and how or if that would change things.
You can see in the OSD that he is already using something other than DJI for the RC link, so he is probably using the same transmitter for both quads. Most of the latency will be in the video anyway. The control link is a relatively small amount of data to send and doesn’t need much processing, the video on the other hand is a lot of data and needs a lot of processing to display it in the goggles so that is where most of the latency comes from.
I’m using crossfire on these quads and I have ELRS on other O3 quads and haven’t noticed much of a difference other than ELRS goes further than the mini crossfire antenna
Why would it change anything? The radio link was presumably the same for both the DJI and hdzero tests. The delay is just a body reaction to what the respective VTXs were sending.
If anything it's just get worse with a faster rate ELRS link. But that's typically something only folks dialed into a racer flight style are really going to feel.
Learned with Analog, HDZero was just a natural fit for me. I cannot stand the latency with DJI/Walksnail at all. It's just a night and day difference. Super not worth the slightly better image quality to feel so disconnected from your machine. It's better suited for fixed wing applications for my tastes. I need instant reaction, not a variable delay. I need shit to happen when my brain tells my hands, otherwise I may crash or hit something I don't wanna. More power to you for trying it, however, it's not gonna be something you'll enjoy coming from DJI unless you take the time to learn what it's actually like, a flight or two won't do it. You have to remap your brain to get rid of the latency compensation it does.
Completely agree... I feel like this test kind of opened pandoras box for me and in a way has ruined flying DJI for me... I just feel like there's something missing when I fly it now. I still love the immersive image quality etc but that latency is a bit like living in ignorance of something and then as soon get a glimpse at what's possible you can't stop thinking about it
@@GarethDix I mean, if nothing else, it'll just make you a better pilot to be able to have the flexibility, however they sorta work against each other in a way since the response feel and the way you have to act/react is different. Tbh, it's not a challenge I do a ton, or when I do it, I pick my flight path very carefully (i.e. I'll opt for more cinematic/high flying away from things, just to absorb that scenery) vs when I'm flying HDZero, I don't tend to worry about much apart from obstacles that'll kill my reception. It's definitely weaker re: penetration as you have experienced yourself, though I'd say I've gotten a lot more confident flying through interference because I know that my quad will still respond to what little I can see, not that I tend to have to do that a lot (again, just being aware of where I choose to fly)
I can't wait to get mine, they will be shipped tomorrow.
The only pair of goggles I used are very cheap eachine box goggles i got years ago for like 70 bucks.
Going from the bottom tier goggles to the very top. I hope it's worth it, almost had to sell a kidney for them. Shipping and VAT to germany is so expensive and after i get the analog module and antennas i spent nearly a 1000 clams on them :o
Yeah I think the price of the HDzero goggles was the big shock for me... originally I was considering getting a pair of high end analog goggles and they weren't much cheaper... but then I hadn't considered the analog module bay, the module itself and all the antennae. But with one goggle you can do 3 systems now depending on what you need and HDZ image quality can be pretty good in comparison
The view is the best. I enjoyed the video.❤
Thank you 🙏🏻
The main reason for choosing or not choosing HDZERO is flying style. If you are not racing or advanced freestyle then you likely won’t pick hdzero. Park flying, cruising, cinematic, and long range pilots will mostly prefer DJI/Walksnail. But there’s good reasons absolutely no one brings dji or walksnail to an organized club event.
Totally agree… I’ve only ever flown DJI and was happy with it and although I’m not an advanced pilot in any way, trying HDZ has made me question what I want from a system and what I want to learn as a pilot. With DJI I was happy cruising around and throwing in a trick or two every so often. With HDZ it’s like it’s poking me saying “go on send it a little harder” really eye opening and even since filming this I keep reaching for that HDZ quad more often
Pyrodrone makes a really nice aftermarket replacement foam for the HDZ goggles, After using the stock foam until it started falling apart i can say that it is terrible, the pyrodrone foam made me actually fall in love with my goggles again. Another thing is the stock antenna that comes with the HDZ freestyle vtx, it's complete garbage. Any decent antenna will drastically increase your range and pen. Also for the 90 HZ camera runcam makes a replacement lens that lessens the fisheye and makes it much nicer to fly in proximity.
Personally I started with analog and then HDZero, and only recently did I get to try out DJI O3 on the Goggles 2. The video quality absolutely blew my socks off but the second I touched the sticks i could feel the latency. Would I get used to it over time? probably, both systems have their place. When flying low and fast you don't think about the video quality much and it really makes HDZ shine, but cruising around nice and slow really makes me wish for DJI or Walksnail, HDZ 1080p30 mode just does not compete.
This is 100% accurate. After breaking that stock antenna I now have a Rush Cherry antenna on it and it hasn't broken yet! I'll take a look at the lens replacement, someone else mentioned another one in the comments earlier so really interested in trying it out. I have to admit flying HDZ felt like I wanted to be more aggressive than I am flying DJI... and then trying to translate that back to DJI was... well yeah terrible.
I'll take a look at the pyrodrone foam, someone else mentioned that skyzone foam fits and someone else was Using DJI Goggles 2 foam that fits... and I have a few of those spare so I'll see if it works
HD Zero and analogue are better for flying, I've been flying for many years, I tried DJI and hated it.
The youth play games 🎮 bluetooth headphones 🎧 you kinda all ready prepared for the delay.
At the end of the day it's down to you!
My choice HD Zero or the old school ano!
Feel it fly it! Try it!
I flew analog, bought a O3 System and Goggles 2. Tried it out, switched back to RapidFire 😂 With Analogue I feel like a a drone, on O3 I feel like a human Controlling a drone. And I really missed the breakup. That makes me feel so much safer, than this Little HD Bar in the O3..
I did a few other tests that the video didn't work on that I wish I could have shown in this video. I flew into a huge concrete structure and the even with the HDZ breakup I managed to fly slowly around and out of. Even with DJI O3 I get a frozen picture or huge lag that I just end up crashing in there.
Something I rarely see noted in dji/walksnail reviews. All the problems they can cause in the field if flying with mixed groups..DJI/WS should have a separate chapter in their manual addressing the conflicts except it might turn off some potential buyers..😕
I rarely fly with more than one other person (as there’s fewer people that fly FPV near where I live) but what I have noticed is when I fly with a friend of mine that uses DJI my analog signal doesn’t seem to be affected but it drops my DJI signal almost by half when he flies between me and my quad so it’s definitely doing something weird
Best way I can describe DJI latency: it is like when you play a game and suddenly turn ,Game Mode, off from your lcd tv. Maybe it won't matter much on GTA, but you won't win an assault at any fighting game.
I think I mentioned to someone in the comments it’s like gaming using a gaming monitor vs an old TV
I currently fly DJI (mostly O3) and Analog. I'd consider trying out HDZero but I don't like the digital snow and the lack of on-board DVR is a deal breaker for me, personally, after so much time with O3. I have an action cam on my Crux35 with Vista, but I rarely fly it because O3 is so much nicer. If I want to bash, I can fly analog. I'd like a second HD system that's compatible with small quads, but given I'm already used to O3's latency, Walksnail is probably where I'll end up. And your statement of "Oh, now I can see" is exactly what I don't really consider HDZero much of an HD system for general use.
Such a great video I'm totally subscribing!!....we need more videos like this....cheers mate
Thanks man!
I crashed yesterday trying dji high quality for the first time... Yeah. It was noticeable. First crash in years.
I’m managing to switch between the two much easier now, but the first pack with DJI flying a lot of HDZ is always a little sketchy
Dont use the original foam from HDZero. Buy the skyzone foam instead. You must cut a bit but it fits better
I think someone mentioned the sky zone O8(?) fits perfectly
@@GarethDix i have the SKYZONE SKY04X foam and it fits better :)
@error86 I’ll check it out thank you!
I guess if i fly them back to back it might mess me up but i can fly dji one day and analog the next day and it doesn't really bother me. i guess i expect what I'm seeing in both. not to mention im racing in analog and doing freestyle on dji so that might play a factor.
No you just make sense. Most folks I know in the hobby knock components they can’t afford or have some anti corporation mentality
Great video was very intertaning. I fly dji, anolog and hdzero. I like dji for its picture quality and the vtx is tuff and reliable. Anolog is great for its very lightweight and cheap and fast. HDzero gives anolog speed with a much better image but the vtx is not as durable as i would like for the cost.
Are you using the freestyle v2 VTX? The only issue I could see from a durability POV would be that mipi cable connection to the camera
@@GarethDix whoop light vtx.
@winder6 ahh makes sense, the V2 freestyle feels fairly bulletproof and I’ll find out what the new AIO is like shortly
Great video! In my humble opinion you would see a lot more progress and confidence in your freestyle if you find what rates you are most comfortable with. In this video it looks like your spins, corrections and saves overshoot your desired target and to me that is an issue with rates and not latency. Would enjoy a video of you tweaking and finding your correct rates :)
I'm starting to think I should have flown my DJI quad first before going to HDZ given the comments on my flying haha. it took me awhile to get to the rates I use on my O3 quad but going to HDZ initially I felt like my visual queue to stop a roll/pitch was way off because it felt like I was seeing faster, then I'd over compensate the other way... ironically going back to DJI I ended up having the same thing happen the other way around but I felt like I was stopping or turning too late. I'll probably do some figuring out of rates with the HDZ quad then see if I can just compensate with DJI rather than the other way around. But watch this space for video on rates!
To get around the problem of being a MAC user (me also) you can install Parallels Desktop VM and just use windows sometimes when you need inside MAC. Great explanatory vid. Can you compare Walksnail also?
Or use mp4 and update via the goggles like normal people.. the Mac issues are a case of not doing any/enough research..
I remember your flying location from one of your tpw vids!
Haha so weird how many pilots we start recognising from the location! Are you doing it too?
i have recently switched to walksnail after flying analog for years. I dont notice that big of a difference in latency. Latency is NOT just in the goggles, i fly my goggles at 720p 100fps, 50mbps(lowest possible latency), run elrs 500hz , do a step response tunning (seriously you can cut 10ms just from your pid balance), play with FF. Im not saying is analog like latency but i am happy and i feel i fly better viewing things more clearly, also penetration is NUTS
Mobula 6 Is nowhere near to meteor 65/75 performance, I switched to 75 pro walksnail and flies so good
I totally agree... I've been flying a meteor 65Pro around and I love it... I recently got the Air65 and Air75 and they're even better, totally changes the whoop experience... just wish HDZ was lighter to put in those
Weight also has a big impact on a sub 250, how good it flys. How much is the weightdifference of the two systems?
The weight difference of the systems is around 15-17g so pretty significant… however I didn’t apply the same weight saving I normally would with my DJI builds (eg titanium hardware/lightweight TPU etc) so the builds both came in at 249g
I fly analog for micros. But when it comes to 3 1/2 and UP, I fly only DJI. There's nothing better out there. It's excellent and unbreakable.
That's what I've been doing as well... HDZ was kind of a surprise to be honest, I didn't think I'd like it as much as I did
caddx moonlight is better
@@FürstKöterichvery subjective as I disagree… I use both
This is awesome, thanks for sharing it, but I also hate you because now i have to go buy it and try it. I have an Avata 2 and 3 Rotor Riot quads, all DJI, and I have just swtiched all of them to ELRS and started using the Boxer in place of the DJI remote 3. I did adjust my throttle midpoint and expo quite a bit as well as my expo on pitch and roll, but I also turned up my rates on pitch, roll, and yaw to moderately high. Anyway my point is just swtiching to the Boxer and ELRS was an immediate improvement in my acro and hitting gaps (I am still not great) and overall control with hovering and landing esp--I am nearly perfectly in control of where I land, and my hover is 1000x better just from the ELRS switch. I now feel like I need to try HDZero, and I have been considering a 2nd goggle option anyway as I want my son to take my Avata 2 and goggles 3 so I have a flying partner as going alone every day gets boring. I had been thinking Fat Shark though as that seems to be the more popular around the Rotor Riot team and others online. I also wanted to try analog because there are some really killer options for $200-300 in numerous highly rated quads because I think maybe having a non $600+ quad might make me be less hesitant to hit smaller gaps and attempt more acro through gaps. Anyway, thanks for the video review, great job in comparing and explaining and sparking my interest more into looking into Analog or perhaps at least other HD video systems and not just being a DJI fan boy (can't imagine giving up my image quality is going to make me happier with flying....). By the way, if you are having throttle control issues, instead of just banging your head into the wall practicing, lower your throttle midpoint to .1-.3ish and turn up the expo and keep adjusting until you find a low throttle response that suits you. I am not ashamed to admit that's what I did and it made my flying 1000X better which made it 10000x more fun, so let the haters laugh at me for the ridiculously high expo and low throttle midpoint (.20 TMP and .50 Expo). How often do you go over 50% throttle for more than 1-3 seconds anyway?
I honestly still love flying my DJI quads, going back to it after a day with analog still blows my mind on the image quality. That said if I had to choose between the DJI vista and HDZ I wouldn't hesitate to go with HDZ it just works way better at speed. But I'm always torn when I'm using an O3 quad because of that sweet image quality.
I'm also really interested to see what these new HDZ goggles are like, right now walksnail seem to be killing it with the goggles L, and now analog integration in the goggles X plus being able to fly it on 1s whoops all the way up to much bigger quads.
If you can get a pair of secondhand analog goggles I'd highly recommend it, and it's true, I just send my analog quads through gaps without worrying about breaking them whereas I'm a little more cautious with my DJI O3 quads. that said I definitely feel a difference when I'm gapping with analog or HDZ... I don't feel like I'm holding my breath hoping I'll get through as much, I just point it and send it.
Ahh and I almost forgot, I used to run expo on my throttle when I started FPV to tame it a little and make it easier to control/hover. However as I progressed I found it way more difficult to control without the linear throttle so I've used that ever since.
The hovering in this video (which a few people have mentioned) was mainly because I was over correcting based on what I was seeing... I probably should have shown me hovering later once I was used to it. But since this first test of HDZ I can switch back and forth between DJI HDZ and analog and it doesn't take me as long for me to adjust anymore.
hello, Gareth, do you have the link for this after market foam? Very informative vid, cheers thanks
This is the one I have, I think it’s a generic one but it’s the only one out of the 5 I tried that is actually comfortable
n-factory.de/Ultimate-Replacement-Foam-for-DJI-Goggles-2
@@GarethDix Appreciate, cheers!💪
You can change the dvr rec format btw. That being said…I’m converting from a long time apple user. Apple sucks now. Also, I’m a fast flying freestyle pilot and hdz is the way! Good video.
It's weird as I tried changing the format but still had the same issue.... on the whoop HDZ VTX it all works fine. I've figured out a workaround but still requires conversion (I think it's the 90fps h.265 throwing it off)
Keeping it real!!! That's all we want!!!
Thank you!
What camera, VTx, and antennas are you using on the analog version? The video looks so clear. I'm constantly trying to improve mine but just cant get it to look so good. Thank you
It’s HDZero rather than analog in this video using the HDZ nano 90cam with TrueRC patch antennas and foxeer stubbies on the goggles. For analog my dvr isn’t so clear so I’m current testing out a bunch of antennae to see if I can get something much clearer
I think you need to adjust your rates mate. Regardless of what you flying dji, analogue , hdz once your rates are set to you and your reaction speed you’ll become a better pilot.
That's actually something that was annoying me whilst I was doing this test. It took me ages to get my rates right for my normal DJI quads. Just before this I started flying whoops a lot and then had to increase the rates on roll. Going to HDZ where I would normally finish a roll/flip with my muscle memory wasn't translating to what I was seeing in the goggles... then going back to DJI I was expecting things to happen faster so came off the controls too early... then overcompensated etc... but I think it's a good shout... I might fix rates whilst flying HDZ and then just compensate for DJI rather than using the rates I'm used to.
Try F1000 or 500 packet rate if on ELRS, f1000 is so wild I can notice my gimbals centering.
I was using crossfire in this video but I might do that with one of my ELRS quads for shits and giggles and see what happens haha
@@GarethDix crossfire is fast too!
Thanks for sharing your experience! What foam are you using with DJI goggles 2? Both original and a replacement foam from aliexpress - feel very uncomfortable:(
The foam I have is called Ultimate replacement foam for DJI goggles 2 (it’s German so very specific name 😂)
n-factory.de/Ultimate-Replacement-Foam-for-DJI-Goggles-2
Great video!
Thank you!
would of been nice to see more of the 10day footage. looks like just one day but it fully shows the latency you must experience with DJI. i never thought it would be that big of a change but dji must really be that much slower. or HD0 that much faster.
I'm just saying. It's made HD0 look really realty good now and it looks like I'm selling the other kidney now😂
Thanks and I had planned on doing back to back full flights HDZ/ DJI on the last day but broke the damn antenna 🤦🏻♂️ and didn’t have a spare at the time. There will be more HDZ coming though I really like the system it’s been eye opening!
Me personally I haven't flown analog or HD zero, I bought directly into dji with there v2 goggles....I'm not a racer or anything but I am a gamer and it feels pretty much the same to me...(input latency ect. So I'm used to it and just want to stick with dji
Honestly that's how I felt going into this... and figured it wouldn't make much difference... but the best way to describe it is like playing online and using an old TV vs a gaming monitor... you don't realise how different it is until you try and play the same thing on the TV again. But if you're used to DJI I wouldn't switch just enjoy the flight... I enjoyed DJI way more before this
Crane in the background calling to me😮
Someone may have dived it with a tinywhoop shortly after I shot this video… “someone” but no idea who 😏
For the Mac & video conversion issue, I'm rather surprised that Mac can't handle .TS videos... They're a pretty standard file format - I had other devices that recorded in that format long before HDZero was around.
But in any case, you should be able to just write a small script that uses ffmpeg to losslessly (stream copy) convert all .TS files in a given folder to .MP4 - and because it's stream copy mode, it should be extremely fast since there's no conversion of the video stream itself.
It’s not the TS file that’s the issue I think it’s the 90fps as even after converting the mp4 doesn’t work either but not having issues with 60fps recording.
That said I used ffmpeg to convert to a h264 mp4 and it works perfectly… it’s just an additional step that still has to happen
@@GarethDix That'd be a pretty fundamental flaw in Mac if it can't handle 90 fps in an mp4 file...
It might not be the framerate though: I think there is something about the 90 fps video mode recording in a different codec than the 60 fps mode. Like one's h264 and the other's h265. Could be that your Mac doesn't support one of the two. Might be able to download a "codec pack" to fix it, or simplest is to use a different video player - what player do you use now? I use VLC a lot and it works great.
Do 100 fps or something recordings from your DJI goggles play on the Mac? 'Cause if so then it's likely the codec not the fps.
@Vousie so yes it looks like at 90fps it’s in h.265 at all other frame rates it’s in h.264. I shoot video with my cameras at 120fps and 100fps and never had an issue but with more digging it looks like Apple refused to support h.265
@Vousie vlc could play the files but not convert them so I’m using ff-works which is a shell for ffmpeg. VLC player on the mac only lets you convert individual files for some reason whereas ff-works can convert multiple files
@@GarethDix RIght, but your original issue was the extra step of converting so many files before you can go through them to see which ones you wanted to use. Now you can use VLC to check through them and then only convert the ones yo uwant to use.
Whast foam do you use ? for the dji goggles
It's called Ultimate replacement foam - n-factory.de/Ultimate-Replacement-Foam-for-DJI-Goggles-2
I've tried about 5 different foams and this was the only one that was any good... there's no nose piece though
Was u even running it in the low latency mode? Or a higher definition mode? I fly analog and Walksnail, Walksnail is much lower latency then DJI but no where near as low as analog or HDzero, but yeah going from analog to Walksnail like you do definitely feel it, slower reactions and such, i fly analog during winter wet months and Walksnail summer, after winter going back to walksnail always feels like wading in waist deep water instead of jogging on a track or walking in sand. Dji was unflyable for me due to it makes me feel ill! Hdzero and analog video quality difference just isn't enough to make a difference for me, im happy with my analog which i have flown for 9 years now, but Walksnail is super enjoyable, i have tried Walksnails race mode, i just dont like the image, it was too distracting to notice if latency was better. FYI, Alot of people keep trying to compare analog on hd goggles like dji v2 or hdzero goggles which adds alot more latency doing the conversion, which just isn't the same as using something like hdo2, orcas, or skyzone analog goggles, i got my goggle x with intention of selling my hdo2 which there just is no way thats going to happen... Since you have the hdzero googles you really should tey a Walksnail VRX on them with the moon light and do same kinda video comparing the moonlight to the DJI... Sure googlex would be better latency, but I'd really like to see someone do that to see what they thought, but also take in consideration that Walksnail has the 1s lite vtx that can run on a tinywhoop vs o3...
Yes I did all my testing in the 540p 90fps mode, I'll try testing the 720p 60fps mode this weekend to see if the image is better. but I totally understand how you feel going back to walksnail, I've been flying my DJI quad since filming this and it now always feels like something is off.
I fly analog with my whoops and may do a larger build at some point as well. I'm using the analog module on the HDZ goggles but might have to try a pure analog goggle to see what it's like.
Walksnail is on the list to try now they have the moonlight camera and 1s vtx for whoops... but rather than the module I might have to give the goggles L a go as they work out cheaper!
@@GarethDix i hear the goggles L are great, but in my experience the dual screen does give a better feel for proximity, even though it isn't true effect, your eyes are just more relaxed and you can definitely tell distance better. When it comes to the latency i think we can feel 10-15 millisecond in my opinion, it may not make a huge difference in performance, but i think at least 20 millisecond does
@DigitalCruzer that’s good to know maybe I’ll try the VRX first and then see if I get into it enough to justify dedicated goggles
I find analog even better, cheaper, easy to use. The video quality is enough. And is clearly better for long range, with video feedback of the link quality. HDZero is good, but after tried it, i want back on full analog. (Also don't put an analog module on the HDZero goggles, its messes up the glitch's)
Until I got these I honestly didn't even want to bother with analog, but I've been flying a lot of whoops with these and an analog module and I'm enjoying it way more than I thought I would. But yeah the image quality doesn't look like it's as good as I see some analog pilots using so I'll have to do some more investigating on that side
I think u have a faulty module then. Works like a charm for me.
The only thing i had was a faulty right screen. It died from one day to the other... was fixed in 5 days tho. Outstanding customer service from Gao.
@@GarethDix The goggles have issues when the signal get lower. And also the colors flickers way more. It still works, but for some goggles that are advertised as "the best analog goggles" on it's website... I don't think that they are updating those issues anymore (not sure). But in the end, if your having fun and it works, well that fine!
Funny that many pilots fly aggressive bando freestyle through ultra tight gaps and in brutal locations using DJI. Can't be so bad, then. Those situations would scream for low latency.
22-29ms of dji is plenty, it slaughters HD Zero and Analog in penetration so bando bashers love it 👌
Whoops arn’t toys.. when you get a high power to weight one and set it up right AND don’t fly it in angle mode they are awesome! 😊
I think from all the comments I’ve been getting on that statement, I should have been more specific in the video… it was that specific whoop I was referring to as it’s heavy and underpowered. I have a few analog whoops with loads of power and I love them. The 2023 mob6 HDZ just isn’t one of them
I got the new hdz aio mob 65. With some mods it’s 18.9g and a weapon. Race whoops are pretty serious marines now
@Sugar_K I’m about to upgrade this one with webleed screamers and a new frame so I can’t wait to see what happens!
I hadn’t realised the HDZ AIO was already out but that’s a complete gamechanger if it’s good!
Anything that’s not a tool is a toy.
The Porsche in my garage… a toy. The truck next to it is a tool (daily driver)
hi,where can i buy the extra market foam for my dji google ?
This is the foam I use for the DJI Goggles 2, I have tried about 5 different ones and this is the only one that is comfortable for my face. however it doesn't have a nose piece but I honestly don't need it (apparently my nose it too big) n-factory.de/Ultimate-Replacement-Foam-for-DJI-Goggles-2
@@GarethDix thanks man 😃
For me its not like the DJI latency is high its just that its inconsistent and fucks with me. If it was 50ms with no variability it would be easier for me to compensate. Even HDZERO 1080p @ 30fps doesnt bother me
I'd have thought DJI would have put a fixed latency mode in there somehow especially as walksnail offer it. I didn't think I was that sensitive to it until after this... ignorance was bliss!
Are you using DJI caddex or DJI O3? Could there be a difference there?
I have vista quads but here I was using an O3. I would happily convert all my vista quads to HDZero as in my opinion I prefer the HDzero image as you don’t get that weird compression as you start to travel faster
Cool video bro 😎
Thanks man!
Is possible to record directly from the camera so interference/connectivity issues will not be shown in the recording? something like putting a microsd card in the vtx to have it record locally.
Great video of what you experienced with HDZ Gareth 👍
I‘ve also got HDZ, analog, DJI and Walksnail and I can very much relate what you found.
Some people are also much more sensitive to latency than others.
There are a variety of foams for the HDZ goggles that should make them more comfortable.
I had the issue that my face wouldn‘t fit the newer DJI goggles so I always prefered Walksnail or HDZ goggles 🤣 wich foam are you using on them?
Take care mate
I think given some of the things walksnail is currently doing I need to give that a go too... when DJI O4 comes I'm sure it'll be over $300 an air unit.
Any particular foam you're using on the HDZ goggle that you'd recommend? I think I've got a workaround for the video file issue but if I could get that foam perfect I would 100% be using these more often
on the Goggles 2 this is the foam I'm using, I've tried about 5 different types and this is the one that I've stuck with n-factory.de/Ultimate-Replacement-Foam-for-DJI-Goggles-2
@@GarethDix pyrodrone foam all the way, super comfy tried 3 foams so far and stuck with pyrodrone foam :)
Some people just aren't sensitive for high latency. My collegues say that they don't feel the difference at at, but i wasn't flying digital for one season after getting it - it was making me nauseating. Same colleagues says that high fps screen isn't making any difference for them. For me it's like night and day.
I think in that first flight I only noticed it because my control was all over the place, but was surprised how different it felt... going back to DJI and feeling disconnected from the quad I fly the most... like it's someone else's was surreal. I enjoyed HDZ way more than I thought I would though as a result!
One thing that is also a factor. And get me wrong ive listened and skipped a few parts.. is your input latency. By the looks of your osd.. you are flying crossfire..
When I flew analogue.. and even now 03.. I still notice the lag in input.. for this test. Mayb it was better to boost tlto 500mw or more output.. and get 2:100 the entire time in that small park. Then u know the latency is lurely the image..
I kept the crossfire output the same in both tests to make sure it was consistent but yes I can up the output and see how that feels too. I’m slowly moving my builds over to ELRS so let’s see how that goes
If you set the DJI camera up for the cinematic filming you will struggle to see properly
I run it at 60fps rather than 24/30 because of that
I thought hdzero has a digital HD module inside and you attach analog module if you want going analog.
try turning down feed forward
Would adjusting the rates/expo for each type of protocol (HDZero and 03) help to reduce the difference in how it feels to fly them?
This is actually what I was thinking based on some of the other comments on rates... I might actually go through the process of adjusting my rates with HDzero and then seeing if I can just adapt to it with DJI rather than the other way round
Weird… as most top freestyle content creators these days are flying the 03 with the exception of Steele and a handful of others. I just fky what visually looks better. Long gone are the days of flying through static and snow when going into tree groups or around buildings. My style is comparable to some snappy stuff mixed with flow. I just don’t see why the analog vs digital is even still a thing as most have picked their side and got what works for them
The HDZero Micro V3/2 camera with 720p60fps probably would have been better for pic quality and decent low latency, especially for freestyle. Sort of a compromise.
I'm actually going to try out the nano 90 cam at 720p 60fps this weekend hopefully. I did a bench test and it even solves the issue I've been having with the video files too so it could be a win win... I just hope it feels the same as the 90fps
@@GarethDix yeah I think for freestyle it still feels pretty snappy at 720p60. I do feel like the pic quality on the Micro cameras is still better though.
HDZ FTW!
Did you consider weight difference? More "snappy" b cause hdzero weights 20grams less
Yes both quads weigh exactly the same as I didn't have to do the same weight saving as I did with the DJI O3 version (e.g. titanium hardware, lightweight TPU, shorter wires etc). so I guess technically the weight distribution will be slightly different as well as the ends of the arms will have a little more weight too