Here's a layman's explanation of what is going on: This motor is designed to run at constant RPM (Hence it is a synchronous motor) but when it is off it takes a lot of energy to get it spinning because its magnets aren't in sync yet. To make it easier to start, the housing of the motor is left free spinning at first and electricity is put in, which makes the housing spin up to full speed. When that happens, the guy with the big wheel starts putting a brake on the housing, which brings the motor out of full speed, and the rotor inside starts to spin to compensate. By slowly putting the brake on, the motor can be made to start up whatever the load is, until finally the motor housing stops spinning altogether and the rotor is driving the load at speed. Its a really brilliant way of making something work for a relatively co
K. Meinzer *its a really brilliant way of making a motor work for a relatively constant load without requiring more horsepower for the startup condition.
+K. Meinzer Why didn't you just edit your original posting instead? Anyway, wow, that seems like a weird way to have to start something that's just electric. I'm glad we don't have to do that with much newer equipment. It kind of reminds me of starting old big diesel engines with small engines -- "pony motors" or pony engines -- except that this doesn't have a smaller motor hooked to it.
An interesting thing is that 60 Hz was also a parralell standard in Europe as well during that period. (Not sure if it came from US or if it always been that way). (At least in my country.)
William Sheppard THAT OLD?? WOW!! Still running strong!! Must be quality! And synchronous motors are efficient, so I guess it won't need to be replaced anytime soon!
Some CEILING FANS use motors like that, BTW, but they use a spring to self-start. They're the ones that are really small and lightweight, and typically have a cord and plug. They're probably not common in the USA, but they are common in the Philippines, and other parts of Asia. They're known as "mini ceiling fans".
90 year old syncro motor/ almost brand new switch gear. We had these at a steel rolling mill in Cleveland untill just a few years ago. They ran large 250 volt DC generators that provided power to slitters and narrow line pinch mills. The syncro motors helped correct the power factor for the plant.
I had a similar synchronous motor with 220Vdc generator. The MCC cabinets were made about 1928. They were wood and concrete and looked like 10 ft tall kitchen cabinets.
Thanks for the bit of history. I took a machines class back in the 1970s whose lab looked a bit like the set from the Frankenstein movie. The synchronous motor was pretty neat. It was about 10 HP or so. It is pretty cool that with a little tweaking, you can make either leading or lagging phase. I never had to use that in actual practice. The facility where I worked was mostly office equipment and lighting, so a capacitor bank was all that was necessary to correct the power factor.
@@zinckensteel I took Machines at a University which had a positively ancient lab, but at least the principles were sound. I worked in an office for most of my work life. Some of my relatives worked in a steel mill. I never got the chance to tour because I was under 18 at the time, and mill policy was no one under 18 allowed in.
I love this! My dad was one of the fathers of solid-state motor control but he loved old tech, whether it was steam, early diesel, or olde-tyme electric, and I wish to God he was still alive to see this! He'd love it even more than *I* do!
love these motors they will go for 300 years I pulled a 2 hp century american repulsion motor out of a field - it had a damn rats next in it - cleaned it up vacuumed etc - oil bath bearings - went first go and runs like a sowing machine - these machinist engineers made things to last.
@@markflierl1624 I have to agree picked a massive 90 year old century motor made in the usa - been in rain in a field and had a rat living in it (found the nest) cleaned it up and it fired and works like a sowing machine 1st go - if you saw the photos you would not believe it.
Jesus the sheer amount of kinetic energy built up in that thing. I would feel so unnerved standing near it, like standing over the edge of a sky scraper.
I think I get how it works - it's like the predecessor to modern soft start technology using mechanical means, letting the motor housing to rotate initially then gradual braking to get the housing to slow down, the magnetic field counter force starts the rotor spinning the opposite direction and the slow braking effect brings the load on gradually reducing inrush current, clever and simple, I love it!
+deezelfairy It's because of a lack of starting torque. Synchronous motors of this size usually don't even start under their own power because line frequency is too fast for them and they just sit there and hum. You can see in the video when it is starting up that the rotor doesn't even budge but after the thing gets going it can actually make enough torque to start rotating the line off the inertia of the stator.
I though sync motors needed a pony motor to get started. I guess this is what deez is suggesting, the outer stator is a rotor, but to get that amount of mass spinning I would think still needs a good lump of power, maybe that's why it hummed so much on start.
They start the stator into rotation, by a secondary small asynchronous motor, thats attached with a belt or chain of some sort, I can't tell by picture, because it's behind the stator. Once it comes into step with synchronous speed they start applying the brakes on the housing, of the stator.
@@victordubowski1276 The motor doesn't use a start motor at all. The motor housing is energized and spins due to repulsion with the run rotor. As the brake is applied, the rotor starts to spin in the opposite direction until the housing fully stops and the rotor is up to operational speed. An elegant design.
Ive seen a lot of synchronous motors (worked in a paper mill) but never one that had a "soft start" like that before. Really great to see that category of motor running. Looks about 240 rpms.
@@RedRatFPV no, synchronous motors still only have one moving component, the rotor, it's that the magnetic field is rotating at a frequency that matches the frequency of the ac signal being applied.
I used to motivate myself watching this while I was preparing for one of the toughest competitive exams for engineers in India. Today I have got a job of class one executive Electrical Engineer. Now looking at this video has made me nostalgic...
@@abdulazizhawsah9884 Joining is getting delayed due to corona virus condition. Let's see how does it look like.. in india, jobs are classified in descending order as group A, group B, group C etc. Group A jobs are also called Class 1 jobs or sometimes Executive job..
@@versedbridge4007 yeah does sound like my 35 plus year old Kenmore. Keeps on going though! Get something new and see if your Samsung will run that long. Awe yea and I'll get a text when the spin cycle is done on my washing machine.
Great! Have not seen a super-synchronous motor in quite a while these were often used in cotton mills and for driving large compressors. This one will run forever THANKS for the treat...Dave S.IEEE
The old engineers knew what they were doing. Not possible: Impossible. Instead of VFDs and all other sorts of complex solutions, just use the most simple mechanical solution possible, which can not randomly fail btw. and call it a day. Lovely.
The inventor Lawrence Hammond used very small synchronous motors of his own invention first in his electric clocks and then in his famous electric organs. The motors' ability to run at one continuous speed for an indefinite period of time would, of course, be necessary for accuracy (in the clocks) and for sustaining a constant musical pitch (in the organs).
I would say that inside the casing between the stator and the large gear there IS a planetary gear set. You can see the large gear if you look through the stator to just beyond the poles.
Love how beefy it sounds when first firing up. I love how you can actually hear the revolutions increasing by the second. It’s like music. For saying that motor is 85 or 90 years old wow! What a machine
Synchronous motors like this have very little starting torque but are extremely efficient. Complex electrical gear is required to protect the motor in cases of overheat or loss of line frequency synchronizaion.
Steel alloy synchronous motors are like asteroids: their only terminal velocity is what has yet broken them. What a mighty beast and oh how great luck I am to witness such magnificence.
They sure don't build them like that anymore and it's comical how they underrated motors back then. I bet she has the capacity to pull 1000 HP. Great video, glad to see that machine still functioning.
+fla playa Yeah in contrast with today where you buy power tools and vacuum cleaners and they use this bullshit "x hp 'developed' " rating! you might see a bandsaw or something with a dinky little power cord and the label might say " 2 hp developed" and the motor is like the size of a softball, 2 hp yeah right!!!! I have a 1928 Century repulsion-induction motor that is 2 hp, it weighs 290#
fla playa No, it is positively 2 hp it states it on the motor plate, it's 60 cycles, 220 v single phase 1165 rpm th-cam.com/video/U1SlR7dMbLg/w-d-xo.html
I didn't understand until it stopped spinning! During the startup I was just "thaaaaat's not synchronous...with anything...". A non-static stator, just the thing to make my day! :)
Right? When I was a kid we had an (old at that time), electric fan that was reversible, the sounds that induction motor made when I reversed it at full speed as it decelerated, reversed and came back up to speed were great. Of course it got very hot if I did it several times in a row, probably why I don't have that fan anymore ;)
Simontay: This is a repulsion start motor. The spinning hub is the repulsion windings that spin up first and allow it to be used as a clutching mechanism to the main rotor. If the brake was fully applied at start the motor would sit there buzzing very angrily at you. Induction motors don't like being stalled.
I have no idea how this motor works, but the first thing I would hazard to guess would be old brakes=asbestos like some fibrous webbing or many small plates of asbestos friction material.
+Ethan Smith I'd guess the motor is a simple synchronous design. Since line-synchronous motors have almost zero torque at 0RPM, the original plant engineers got around that problem by letting the much lighter stator rotate and apply brakes to it after it got to speed to progressively transfer torque to the shaft instead of using a clutch and multi-speed transmission which would only gets used at startup once a day at most. With modern electronic controls, it should be possible to retrofit the motor with rotor position sensors and use an electronic drive to eliminate the brake. With asbestos being banned or restricted in an increasing number of countries, I doubt its braking pads have contained much if any of it in the past 20 years or so.
Ethan Smith I don't know if it does or not. It certainly wouldn't be the first time I hear of a factory using some 60+ years old equipment. Based on how modern the control/supply room looks, if it has been decommissioned, it must not have been that many years ago. (The video itself is from 2013.)
GE does make a synchronous motor that has a very heavy amortisseur winding in the salient pole piece faces. This allowed the synchronous motor develop a much higher starting torque than a motor with a light (damper) winding. One of the motors I was familiar with was a synchronous motor driving a chipper disc in a plant that made ceiling tiles - not a good choice for a sync. motor because it would be knocked out-of-sync frequently, but the motor sometimes operated without any load for an extended period of time. The motor was rated 350 HP at 514 RPM.
esta muy bueno el video, de hecho se puede apreciar de forma muy básica la explicación sobre el principio de arranque de un motor síncrono, este motor está diseñado para funcionar a RPM constantes (por lo tanto, es un motor síncrono), pero cuando está apagado se necesita mucha energía para que gire porque sus imanes aún no están sincronizados. Para facilitar el arranque, la carcasa del motor se deja girando libremente al principio y se pone electricidad, lo que hace que la carcasa gire a toda velocidad. Cuando eso sucede, la persona con la rueda grande comienza a aplicar un freno en la carcasa, lo que saca el motor de la velocidad máxima, y el rotor interior comienza a girar para compensar. Al poner lentamente el freno, se puede hacer que el motor arranque sea cual sea la carga, hasta que finalmente la carcasa del motor deje de girar por completo y el rotor impulse la carga a gran velocidad
ez nem semmi , hogy kezzel utanna kell allitani dolgoknak. This is very facinating process to start up an electric motor with high voltage. thanks for the vid .
Our local pulp and paper mill used to have a couple of huge pre 1920's 400+ hp wagon wheel type electric motors that ran various equipment at the site until they were replaced in the early 1990's
A giant Hammond Organ... Laurens Hammond invented the synchronous motor. Star-delta works on polyphase induction motors... synchronous motors have lower torque, so must be helped to start... hence the two-stage, two-switch method to start your Hammond organ. Wiki has an excellent article on this, although I don't believe that they cover this exact scheme. Great video! Ungodly noise on startup... I've had crashed sound cards make that exact same noise.
+scowell While directly line-driven synchronous motors may have very low startup torque and require slip to limit startup (a stalled motor acts almost like a dead short), modern synchronous motors with VFDs can provide massive torque by letting the VFD provide current limiting instead of the motor - the only limit to torque is the motor and VFD startup current limit. That's why modern locomotives are diesel-electric - full torque and 3000+HP available from 0RPM/dead-stop without the ginourmous and notoriously unreliable mechanical transmission. The newest generation of cordless power tools are going brushless synchronous as well. Same power and torque using smaller motors, simpler/no gearbox and no brushes to wear down.
+Teardown Dan The classic synchronous motor such as found in old electric clocks has no startup torque including this one. It is being spun up by another motor, likely a 3 phase induction motor. Most big VFDs are induction motors and also are not synchronous. However, brushelss DC motors have a permanent magnet rotor and a rotating stator field. Cordless drills do still have a gear reduction.
Marv Kausch A brushless "DC" motor is little more than a synchonous motor with the rotor field replaced with a permanent magnet and some form of position feedback to make the driver generate the correct stator drive timings to make it turn at a given speed for a given load.
What is cool to me, is that it looks like this is actually still being used somewhere,, not in a museum. Is it possibly for some public utility like a ventilation fan for a subway or something ?
When I was an apprentice, there wer some really great motors, ie:DELCO has a 3/4 hp motor 1 phase, but to replace that motor with a modern one was about a 5 hp, also WAGNER had a wonderful 1 phase motor1.5 hp repulsion start induction run to reverse it yoy moved the brushes 90 degrees, it also was a hernia buster, a new motor was probably 5hp -7.5, yes They do not make them like that anymore , the basic synchronous motors were 1800RPM, and every one I saw drove a large AMMONIA REFRIGERATION COMPRESSORS NH3, or R717. .🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Looking at my old GE-Canada synchronous motor catalog, I believe GE called this a "Super-Synchronous" motor. Most large synchronous motors utilize squirrel cage bars in the rotor for starting on 3-phase AC, and a separate exciter unit is used, as seen here when the camera rotates over to the 2 guys at the electrical cabinet. Other synchronous motors have the exciter on the rotor shaft, opposite end of the output shaft. Honestly, I had no idea that the stator rotated to start the motor, I assume that the fellow is turning a hydraulic brake valve to slow and finally lock-down the stator, after the rotor is up to synchronous speed. I believe that there are squirrel cage bars for the AC stator to react with and start spinning around the rotor. The spinning field must cause the rotor to develop massive starting torque. Motor looks to be driving a very large belt. In my catalog, the super-synchronous motors were driving cement factory equipment. This is a GREAT video!!! It is so wonderful to see an old, open motor in service today, most new sync and induction motors of high HP look like enclosed boxes...booring!!! Thanks for this awesome video!!
In one of their synchronous motor catalogs, this type was called the "super synchronous" motor, their photos showing them running in a cement plant. Most large, old synchronous motors are self-starting...They have a squirrel cage in their rotors so they start like a standard 3-phase induction motor to get them up to speed. As far as I am concerned, this type here requires alot to get it going. The standard synchronous motor is easy to start: Soft-start it like an induction motor and it is running!
So a small motor brings the big rostator up to speed, which induces the starotor to rotate. Once that is up to speed, the manual brake brings the rostator down to stator mpode, with the starotor now operating as a rotor. Neat!
When the motor first starts, the motor housing itself spins around the stationary shaft. As the rpm's increase the guy turning the wheel is applying brake to that spinning motor housing causing the shaft to use the increasingly held housing as a reaction surface, and as the housing is braked, the shaft begins to spin turning the machinery. Finally the housing is completely held and all electric power is turning the shaft alone and running the machine. Just a way to bring it up to speed.
Very interesting how the clutch system works. I figured out how it works just watching the video. I have a very old 1/4 HP Emerson motor that has a centrifugal clutch built right inside the motor giving the motor very high starting torque.
I'll just bet it smells like frying brake shoes in there! Very old motor! They had one just like it at the lehigh cement plant in buffalo new york years ago. My father did his apprenticeship for IBEW local 41 there and told me there was an entire room full of burnt out brake pads from starting this motor. I believe it ran the conveyor belts. They couldn't just slam those on so they used this
Yes, the brake are effectively stalling out 350hp and holding it, every time they start the motors. They must have been pretty big. This is an early method of variable frequency starters. Should give very high torque.
Weird how the electric motor is spinning CW, and the engine it's starting is spinning CCW. I don't fully understand how it works when applying the brake to stop the electric motor, but I will research it and see how it all works. Thanks for the awesome video.
+RakinBill Here's a layman's explanation of what is going on: This motor is designed to run at constant RPM (Hence it is a synchronous motor) but when it is off it takes a lot of energy to get it spinning because its magnets aren't in sync yet. To make it easier to start, the housing of the motor is left free spinning at first and electricity is put in, which makes the housing spin up to full speed. When that happens, the guy with the big wheel starts putting a brake on the housing, which brings the motor out of full speed, and the rotor inside starts to spin to compensate. By slowly putting the brake on, the motor can be made to start up whatever the load is, until finally the motor housing stops spinning altogether and the rotor is driving the load at speed.
Here's a layman's explanation of what is going on:
This motor is designed to run at constant RPM (Hence it is a synchronous motor) but when it is off it takes a lot of energy to get it spinning because its magnets aren't in sync yet. To make it easier to start, the housing of the motor is left free spinning at first and electricity is put in, which makes the housing spin up to full speed. When that happens, the guy with the big wheel starts putting a brake on the housing, which brings the motor out of full speed, and the rotor inside starts to spin to compensate. By slowly putting the brake on, the motor can be made to start up whatever the load is, until finally the motor housing stops spinning altogether and the rotor is driving the load at speed.
Its a really brilliant way of making something work for a relatively co
K. Meinzer *its a really brilliant way of making a motor work for a relatively constant load without requiring more horsepower for the startup condition.
+K. Meinzer Acts just like a big electric clutch it seems. Genius.
+K. Meinzer
Why didn't you just edit your original posting instead?
Anyway, wow, that seems like a weird way to have to start something that's just electric. I'm glad we don't have to do that with much newer equipment. It kind of reminds me of starting old big diesel engines with small engines -- "pony motors" or pony engines -- except that this doesn't have a smaller motor hooked to it.
They are, *****, but you don't have to do anything close to this with them.
...on modern ones, that is, yeah, *****.
This motor runs the main line shaft of a flour mill. Motor is 85 - 90 years old.
+William Sheppard Which mill is that? Do you have more videos?
An interesting thing is that 60 Hz was also a parralell standard in Europe as well during that period.
(Not sure if it came from US or if it always been that way).
(At least in my country.)
how many amps does it draw
William Sheppard THAT OLD?? WOW!! Still running strong!! Must be quality! And synchronous motors are efficient, so I guess it won't need to be replaced anytime soon!
Some CEILING FANS use motors like that, BTW, but they use a spring to self-start. They're the ones that are really small and lightweight, and typically have a cord and plug. They're probably not common in the USA, but they are common in the Philippines, and other parts of Asia. They're known as "mini ceiling fans".
Electrical engineers: A motor always has a stator and a rotor.
This motor: ALL ROTOR!
All Motor
Reminds me of BLDC Outrunner motor.
wrong...
Electrical engineers: A motor have rotating part called rotor and static part called stator
+Mauro behold the Statator lol (joke). But it's interesting to see how they swap places mid operation
Actually the stator is also rotating to get the rotor turning.
everybody gangsta until the stator starts rotating.
Wouldn't it blow if your name was Fuse
😀
@@TheLightningStalker 🤣🤣
The reason the stator start rotating is because of the repelling electromagnets in the permanent magnets on the rotor
When the stator ain't static
90 year old syncro motor/ almost brand new switch gear. We had these at a steel rolling mill in Cleveland untill just a few years ago. They ran large 250 volt DC generators that provided power to slitters and narrow line pinch mills. The syncro motors helped correct the power factor for the plant.
I had a similar synchronous motor with 220Vdc generator. The MCC cabinets were made about 1928. They were wood and concrete and looked like 10 ft tall kitchen cabinets.
Thanks for the bit of history. I took a machines class back in the 1970s whose lab looked a bit like the set from the Frankenstein movie. The synchronous motor was pretty neat. It was about 10 HP or so. It is pretty cool that with a little tweaking, you can make either leading or lagging phase. I never had to use that in actual practice. The facility where I worked was mostly office equipment and lighting, so a capacitor bank was all that was necessary to correct the power factor.
Was that part of the old continuous casting steel foundry? I toured that place in 1999 iirc, very impressive memories.
@@zinckensteel I took Machines at a University which had a positively ancient lab, but at least the principles were sound. I worked in an office for most of my work life. Some of my relatives worked in a steel mill. I never got the chance to tour because I was under 18 at the time, and mill policy was no one under 18 allowed in.
Technically it is then no longer a Synchronous motor but a Synchronous Condenser
I love this! My dad was one of the fathers of solid-state motor control but he loved old tech, whether it was steam, early diesel, or olde-tyme electric, and I wish to God he was still alive to see this! He'd love it even more than *I* do!
What’s your father’s name sir😮
That is one bad ass motor. Awesome video. Love the way it spins and the starting sounds.
RODALCO2007 Agree
RODALCO2007 99
RODALCO2007. This monster powerful motor would probably be something I would install under my house.........
I work at this location and it is quite amazing how a 90 year old motor is still running almost everyday 24 hours at a time
Good old quality piece right there!
love these motors they will go for 300 years I pulled a 2 hp century american repulsion motor out of a field - it had a damn rats next in it - cleaned it up vacuumed etc - oil bath bearings - went first go and runs like a sowing machine - these machinist engineers made things to last.
It's not amazing. Today, they build crap. Google the light bulb conspiracy.
are the bearing oil bath or oil film with a reservoir and a ring that pick up the oil?
@@markflierl1624 I have to agree picked a massive 90 year old century motor made in the usa - been in rain in a field and had a rat living in it (found the nest) cleaned it up and it fired and works like a sowing machine 1st go - if you saw the photos you would not believe it.
Jesus the sheer amount of kinetic energy built up in that thing. I would feel so unnerved standing near it, like standing over the edge of a sky scraper.
Try standing next to a hydro turbine shaft 😳
Energy density/kg is a lot denser than that spinning wheel in batteries, sugars ect.
But this one is kinetic. Be interesting to compare joules with gasoline in an internal combustion motor
Right, like what if it grenades and chunks start flying lmao
Fantastic!, I have never seen a motor start like that before!
What a fantastic sound
This motor usually seen in cement plants and minning
They had amazing tech
Rest in peace , aussie.
:'(
I think I get how it works - it's like the predecessor to modern soft start technology using mechanical means, letting the motor housing to rotate initially then gradual braking to get the housing to slow down, the magnetic field counter force starts the rotor spinning the opposite direction and the slow braking effect brings the load on gradually reducing inrush current, clever and simple, I love it!
+deezelfairy It's because of a lack of starting torque. Synchronous motors of this size usually don't even start under their own power because line frequency is too fast for them and they just sit there and hum.
You can see in the video when it is starting up that the rotor doesn't even budge but after the thing gets going it can actually make enough torque to start rotating the line off the inertia of the stator.
I though sync motors needed a pony motor to get started. I guess this is what deez is suggesting, the outer stator is a rotor, but to get that amount of mass spinning I would think still needs a good lump of power, maybe that's why it hummed so much on start.
DKJones96 I suppose when I don’t want to work, I just sit there a hum too 😂
They start the stator into rotation, by a secondary small asynchronous motor, thats attached with a belt or chain of some sort, I can't tell by picture, because it's behind the stator. Once it comes into step with synchronous speed they start applying the brakes on the housing, of the stator.
@@victordubowski1276 The motor doesn't use a start motor at all. The motor housing is energized and spins due to repulsion with the run rotor. As the brake is applied, the rotor starts to spin in the opposite direction until the housing fully stops and the rotor is up to operational speed. An elegant design.
Ive seen a lot of synchronous motors (worked in a paper mill) but never one that had a "soft start" like that before. Really great to see that category of motor running. Looks about 240 rpms.
Probably a wound rotor motor based on its appearance.
Wound rotor is my guess too, but you can send DC through the rotor to get synchronous operation.
Teacher... What are the stator and rotor in a motor ?
Teacher: The stator is the stationary part of the motor and the rot.... HEY !! WAIT A MINUTE !!!
both stator and rotor rotating right?
@@samueladitya1729 on a synchronous motor yes, on an asynchronous no.
@@RedRatFPV no, synchronous motors still only have one moving component, the rotor, it's that the magnetic field is rotating at a frequency that matches the frequency of the ac signal being applied.
I used to motivate myself watching this while I was preparing for one of the toughest competitive exams for engineers in India. Today I have got a job of class one executive Electrical Engineer. Now looking at this video has made me nostalgic...
Executive Electrical Engineer??
What is that like?
Is it hard?
@@abdulazizhawsah9884 Joining is getting delayed due to corona virus condition. Let's see how does it look like.. in india, jobs are classified in descending order as group A, group B, group C etc. Group A jobs are also called Class 1 jobs or sometimes Executive job..
ESE ?
GATE
@@wanderswings1993 I'm preparing for gate '21 also
:)
Lol. That sounds like my computer turning on.
This sounds like my washer during the spin cycle
Reminds me of those IBM PC/XT models.
@@versedbridge4007 yeah does sound like my 35 plus year old Kenmore. Keeps on going though! Get something new and see if your Samsung will run that long. Awe yea and I'll get a text when the spin cycle is done on my washing machine.
Loads of steam comes out of my computer
Oh its probably your hard drive
I'm going to play this this through the speakers in my work shed on a weekend close to midnight and see how the neighbors react
yeah drive them crazy :D
R5H4D0W you get evicted?
R5H4D0W sound proof room would help lol
@@savagesock3598 Make the street lights flicker they would thing some one is in the Electric chair,
5 years later: so how’d it go?
The rotating stator is basically a huge startup clutch, allowing slow start of the following machine.
That was satisfying. Neat to see old electric tech has just as much character as old fuel fired machines.
I bet everyone would want an electric car if they sounded like this when starting
Motor porn right here... Love that AC buzz
+coolbluelights Absolutely !!!!!
me too
coolbluelights I do too ^_^
Yeah
me too
Great! Have not seen a super-synchronous motor in quite a while these were often used in cotton mills and for driving large compressors. This one will run forever THANKS for the treat...Dave S.IEEE
The old engineers knew what they were doing. Not possible: Impossible. Instead of VFDs and all other sorts of complex solutions, just use the most simple mechanical solution possible, which can not randomly fail btw. and call it a day. Lovely.
Exactly. Back when writing a man a paycheck wasn't seen as a cardinal sin amongst shareholders.
Can't be hacked remotely, either. Only maintenance it needs is a bit of oil in the bearings. Turbine oil lasts years.
I work with the modern solutions, whilst they are easier most of the time, as you say they do randomly fail and it is a massive pain in the ass. It
And cannot be killed by solar sunspot flares, or buggy software.
TheTarzan58 yes it can wires would melt
The AC buzz.... Its sounds soooooooo good :P
KaienSander10 its nice when you are there in person
I agree.
The inventor Lawrence Hammond used very small synchronous motors of his own invention first in his electric clocks and then in his famous electric organs. The motors' ability to run at one continuous speed for an indefinite period of time would, of course, be necessary for accuracy (in the clocks) and for sustaining a constant musical pitch (in the organs).
Hammond organs also used start motors. The old organs had a start and a run switch.
Everyone else: "wow that's amazing it's so strong!"
Me: *_ÜÜNNNNNNN_*
for dessert maybe a ... HUUUUUMMMH ?
ÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜNNNNN
It’s the 50-60hz frequency
@@WELLINGTON20 Yeap made by Nikola Tesla using Alternating current AC
@@WELLINGTON20 100volts-240volts
Anybody else notice he managed to brake the motor housing to exactly where it was before it was even turned on? Impressive! haha
Yes, i noticed that too.
dumb luck xD
Must be a high or low spot in the brake and it stops there everytime
I can only imagine that's the case. unless the flywheel's weight distribution is not balanced
@@MrAlex3461 would explain all the noise when the flywheel was free spining
Never got to see Rosie Odonell's treadmill control room before. Thanks!
I was drinking coffee...now I need to change my shirt! 😝
This is the power supply for Chuck Norris' beard trimmer.
0:03 thats the sound of pure electrical current🔥🔥
The similarity to a planetary gear set, including the band brake is striking
I would say that inside the casing between the stator and the large gear there IS a planetary gear set. You can see the large gear if you look through the stator to just beyond the poles.
@@smitajky why would it need to be there? Can't it run on pure EMF?
Love how beefy it sounds when first firing up. I love how you can actually hear the revolutions increasing by the second. It’s like music. For saying that motor is 85 or 90 years old wow! What a machine
Synchronous motors like this have very little starting torque but are extremely efficient. Complex electrical gear is required to protect the motor in cases of overheat or loss of line frequency synchronizaion.
Steel alloy synchronous motors are like asteroids: their only terminal velocity is what has yet broken them. What a mighty beast and oh how great luck I am to witness such magnificence.
when a electric motor sounds like this... then you know your playing with POWAAAH! it sounds like hell is opening at the beginning of the start
They sure don't build them like that anymore and it's comical how they underrated motors back then. I bet she has the capacity to pull 1000 HP. Great video, glad to see that machine still functioning.
+fla playa Yeah in contrast with today where you buy power tools and vacuum cleaners and they use this bullshit "x hp 'developed' " rating! you might see a bandsaw or something with a dinky little power cord and the label might say " 2 hp developed" and the motor is like the size of a softball, 2 hp yeah right!!!!
I have a 1928 Century repulsion-induction motor that is 2 hp, it weighs 290#
Victorian Sculptures Probably 20 HP. Is it 25 cycles by any chance?
fla playa
No, it is positively 2 hp it states it on the motor plate, it's 60 cycles, 220 v single phase 1165 rpm th-cam.com/video/U1SlR7dMbLg/w-d-xo.html
The real doktorbimmer I remember you. Shouldn't your name be The Real Stalkerbimmer? Lol. You got problems.
Victorian Sculptures Cool thanks I'll check it out now.
I seem to have watched this video about twenty times over the past couple of years - and it still captivates :D
Same here... Twenty or more times.
I didn't understand until it stopped spinning! During the startup I was just "thaaaaat's not synchronous...with anything...". A non-static stator, just the thing to make my day! :)
I would love to be there in person when they turn this bad boy on. I love electrical noises like this, it's like music to my ears.
Nothing like 60Hz music in the morning.
Right? When I was a kid we had an (old at that time), electric fan that was reversible, the sounds that induction motor made when I reversed it at full speed as it decelerated, reversed and came back up to speed were great. Of course it got very hot if I did it several times in a row, probably why I don't have that fan anymore ;)
Simontay: This is a repulsion start motor. The spinning hub is the repulsion windings that spin up first and allow it to be used as a clutching mechanism to the main rotor. If the brake was fully applied at start the motor would sit there buzzing very angrily at you. Induction motors don't like being stalled.
I wonder how often the brake band material must be replaced, and what it's made of?
I have no idea how this motor works, but the first thing I would hazard to guess would be old brakes=asbestos like some fibrous webbing or many small plates of asbestos friction material.
and as for the replacement period in assume once a month? just a shot in the dark
+Ethan Smith I'd guess the motor is a simple synchronous design. Since line-synchronous motors have almost zero torque at 0RPM, the original plant engineers got around that problem by letting the much lighter stator rotate and apply brakes to it after it got to speed to progressively transfer torque to the shaft instead of using a clutch and multi-speed transmission which would only gets used at startup once a day at most. With modern electronic controls, it should be possible to retrofit the motor with rotor position sensors and use an electronic drive to eliminate the brake.
With asbestos being banned or restricted in an increasing number of countries, I doubt its braking pads have contained much if any of it in the past 20 years or so.
+Teardown Dan I was under the assumption that the this was an old piece in a old facility that wasn't producing anymore.
Ethan Smith
I don't know if it does or not. It certainly wouldn't be the first time I hear of a factory using some 60+ years old equipment. Based on how modern the control/supply room looks, if it has been decommissioned, it must not have been that many years ago. (The video itself is from 2013.)
That was awesome!!! Love stuff like this! Thanks for sharing.
GE does make a synchronous motor that has a very heavy amortisseur winding in the salient pole piece faces. This allowed the synchronous motor develop a much higher starting torque than a motor with a light (damper) winding. One of the motors I was familiar with was a synchronous motor driving a chipper disc in a plant that made ceiling tiles - not a good choice for a sync. motor because it would be knocked out-of-sync frequently, but the motor sometimes operated without any load for an extended period of time. The motor was rated 350 HP at 514 RPM.
Amortisseur? You are using a lot of words that aren't English words.
pole slip, that's going to be harsh on the motor, mechanical pieces, and the electrical grid.
Never seen one of these in the flesh so thankyou UTOOB
esta muy bueno el video, de hecho se puede apreciar de forma muy básica la explicación sobre el principio de arranque de un motor síncrono, este motor está diseñado para funcionar a RPM constantes (por lo tanto, es un motor síncrono), pero cuando está apagado se necesita mucha energía para que gire porque sus imanes aún no están sincronizados. Para facilitar el arranque, la carcasa del motor se deja girando libremente al principio y se pone electricidad, lo que hace que la carcasa gire a toda velocidad. Cuando eso sucede, la persona con la rueda grande comienza a aplicar un freno en la carcasa, lo que saca el motor de la velocidad máxima, y el rotor interior comienza a girar para compensar. Al poner lentamente el freno, se puede hacer que el motor arranque sea cual sea la carga, hasta que finalmente la carcasa del motor deje de girar por completo y el rotor impulse la carga a gran velocidad
Copiar está feo
@@MorganSullivan así es aunque yo solo traduje el comentario amigo
ez nem semmi , hogy kezzel utanna kell allitani dolgoknak. This is very facinating process to start up an electric motor with high voltage. thanks for the vid .
Hands down the best startup Video I have ever seen on TH-cam. thank you for posting it!
Our local pulp and paper mill used to have a couple of huge pre 1920's 400+ hp wagon wheel type electric motors that ran various equipment at the site until they were replaced in the early 1990's
That is an amazing, and totally badass motor design. Love it and would definitely like to see it in person some time.
I like the sound when it accelerated
That sound at the start.....
"LIFT OFF!"
The sound of that buzz at startup. Beautiful...
A giant Hammond Organ... Laurens Hammond invented the synchronous motor. Star-delta works on polyphase induction motors... synchronous motors have lower torque, so must be helped to start... hence the two-stage, two-switch method to start your Hammond organ. Wiki has an excellent article on this, although I don't believe that they cover this exact scheme. Great video! Ungodly noise on startup... I've had crashed sound cards make that exact same noise.
+scowell While directly line-driven synchronous motors may have very low startup torque and require slip to limit startup (a stalled motor acts almost like a dead short), modern synchronous motors with VFDs can provide massive torque by letting the VFD provide current limiting instead of the motor - the only limit to torque is the motor and VFD startup current limit. That's why modern locomotives are diesel-electric - full torque and 3000+HP available from 0RPM/dead-stop without the ginourmous and notoriously unreliable mechanical transmission.
The newest generation of cordless power tools are going brushless synchronous as well. Same power and torque using smaller motors, simpler/no gearbox and no brushes to wear down.
+Teardown Dan The classic synchronous motor such as found in old electric clocks has no startup torque including this one. It is being spun up by another motor, likely a 3 phase induction motor. Most big VFDs are induction motors and also are not synchronous. However, brushelss DC motors have a permanent magnet rotor and a rotating stator field.
Cordless drills do still have a gear reduction.
Marv Kausch A brushless "DC" motor is little more than a synchonous motor with the rotor field replaced with a permanent magnet and some form of position feedback to make the driver generate the correct stator drive timings to make it turn at a given speed for a given load.
Hammond did not invent the synchronous motor. He just managed to find other applications for it... The clock and then the organ.
Correct. Tesla almost spun over in his grave.
What a beast!!! Greetings from Brazil!
What is cool to me, is that it looks like this is actually still being used somewhere,, not in a museum. Is it possibly for some public utility like a ventilation fan for a subway or something ?
Not sure if you saw the posters reply or not, it’s the main power source in a flower mill
When I was an apprentice, there wer some really great motors, ie:DELCO has a 3/4 hp motor 1 phase, but to replace that motor with a modern one was about a 5 hp, also WAGNER had a wonderful 1 phase motor1.5 hp repulsion start induction run to reverse it yoy moved the brushes 90 degrees, it also was a hernia buster, a new motor was probably 5hp -7.5, yes They do not make them like that anymore , the basic synchronous motors were 1800RPM, and every one I saw drove a large AMMONIA REFRIGERATION COMPRESSORS NH3, or R717. .🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
WOW what a fantastic way to startup a load by slipping outer at first then braking it to transfer load to rotor FANTASTIC !
Wounded how long it took to figure that out way back in 1907?
Props to the camera guy for making it easy to see what’s going on too!
Fr
wow.... just wow... the way its starts is amazing!
Looking at my old GE-Canada synchronous motor catalog, I believe GE called this a "Super-Synchronous" motor. Most large synchronous motors utilize squirrel cage bars in the rotor for starting on 3-phase AC, and a separate exciter unit is used, as seen here when the camera rotates over to the 2 guys at the electrical cabinet. Other synchronous motors have the exciter on the rotor shaft, opposite end of the output shaft. Honestly, I had no idea that the stator rotated to start the motor, I assume that the fellow is turning a hydraulic brake valve to slow and finally lock-down the stator, after the rotor is up to synchronous speed.
I believe that there are squirrel cage bars for the AC stator to react with and start spinning around the rotor. The spinning field must cause the rotor to develop massive starting torque. Motor looks to be driving a very large belt. In my catalog, the super-synchronous motors were driving cement factory equipment.
This is a GREAT video!!! It is so wonderful to see an old, open motor in service today, most new sync and induction motors of high HP look like enclosed boxes...booring!!! Thanks for this awesome video!!
In fact, he's turning a lever connected to the riveted steel belt around the motor stator -you can see the whole brake mechanism at 2:15.
Now you know where your Corn Pops and Cap’n Crunch all started!
I love the knee-height "safety" rail.
Back then, people had more common sense.
and people were shorter !
This is fascinating! Its like having a clutch, but the clutch (brake) is actually acting on the stator.
Tasty sound while startin' up
WOW, that's so cool! It's a clutch set up quite unconventionally.
Actual leaked footage of my brain trying to generate a response other than “You too” when the waitress says “Enjoy your meal”
Man, standing next to that would surely get your heart going! All that barely-constrained power!
Love inhaling brake band asbestos lining in the morning!
hah thats awesome, reminds me of the old radials engines that used to spin the entire block around the crankshaft.
0:03 my microwave oven at 3am
Fantastic sounds. Even more entertaining than old HDD sounds
The sound is just like an old time machine came back in operation...
This makes me smile.
That's a powerfull sound!
Wow, forget what I said on the last video i watched, THIS sounds like an old spaceship reactor starting up!
holy shit this is awesome
We had an 800 HP running our flour mill in Medicine Hat.
the perfect ringtone for my alarm-clock
nice to see and hear, we love big engines
MENZEL MOTORS its not a engine so your incorrect
Sounds like my PCs case fan spinning up
Looks and sounds like something you’d start up in Riven.
In one of their synchronous motor catalogs, this type was called the "super synchronous" motor, their photos showing them running in a cement plant.
Most large, old synchronous motors are self-starting...They have a squirrel cage in their rotors so they start like a standard 3-phase induction motor to get them up to speed. As far as I am concerned, this type here requires alot to get it going. The standard synchronous motor is easy to start: Soft-start it like an induction motor and it is running!
Wow, that was cool on so many levels!!
Soundly Like an Old Diesel.
So a small motor brings the big rostator up to speed, which induces the starotor to rotate. Once that is up to speed, the manual brake brings the rostator down to stator mpode, with the starotor now operating as a rotor. Neat!
I can't resist watching this every time it comes up on my recommended list. What kind of factory is this? - And where?
I saw somebody mentioned a mill, but I do not know where.
iannickCZ you do realize the post you reply to is 3 years old
bryan young so what? Just because its 3 Years old doesnt mean its not a question
lolol xD
Great video. Thanks for posting this. Have a nice day.
When the motor first starts, the motor housing itself spins around the stationary shaft. As the rpm's increase the guy turning the wheel is applying brake to that spinning motor housing causing the shaft to use the increasingly held housing as a reaction surface, and as the housing is braked, the shaft begins to spin turning the machinery. Finally the housing is completely held and all electric power is turning the shaft alone and running the machine. Just a way to bring it up to speed.
That is one unique motor! I really like it!
Very interesting how the clutch system works. I figured out how it works just watching the video. I have a very old 1/4 HP Emerson motor that has a centrifugal clutch built right inside the motor giving the motor very high starting torque.
I'll just bet it smells like frying brake shoes in there! Very old motor! They had one just like it at the lehigh cement plant in buffalo new york years ago. My father did his apprenticeship for IBEW local 41 there and told me there was an entire room full of burnt out brake pads from starting this motor. I believe it ran the conveyor belts. They couldn't just slam those on so they used this
Yes, the brake are effectively stalling out 350hp and holding it, every time they start the motors. They must have been pretty big. This is an early method of variable frequency starters. Should give very high torque.
Wow at the freewheeling stator!!! This is an amazing machine. Thanks for sharing it.
What is the driven machinery?
Weird how the electric motor is spinning CW, and the engine it's starting is spinning CCW.
I don't fully understand how it works when applying the brake to stop the electric motor, but I will research it and see how it all works.
Thanks for the awesome video.
+RakinBill Here's a layman's explanation of what is going on:
This motor is designed to run at constant RPM (Hence it is a synchronous motor) but when it is off it takes a lot of energy to get it spinning because its magnets aren't in sync yet. To make it easier to start, the housing of the motor is left free spinning at first and electricity is put in, which makes the housing spin up to full speed. When that happens, the guy with the big wheel starts putting a brake on the housing, which brings the motor out of full speed, and the rotor inside starts to spin to compensate. By slowly putting the brake on, the motor can be made to start up whatever the load is, until finally the motor housing stops spinning altogether and the rotor is driving the load at speed.
Of some reason i find that old motor a bit eerie, like it´s the one that powers the escalator to hell.
The startup sound, that's be best part if you ask me.
Finaly a motor that fits into my electric scooter
jolie pièce de musée, à le voir de prêt je pense que ça doit être mieux.
merci pour la vidéo c'était super
I wonder if they used any asbestos in that motor? Maybe the friction brake?
most likely yes
Yes, but unless and until someone decides to tear into it on a rebuild, it's of very little danger to anyone.
That seems like a high rpm for that heavy outside case that is riveted together. Wow neat
Start sound like reactor purge from Alien Isolation :D
Modern day equipment contrasting to industrial age machinery is always such a dirty, but amazing sight