Mark Rylance could act out the phone book and it would be totally mesmerising. He holds you attention with his whole demeanour. Fantastic acting, fantastic script, and basically fantastic everything! Well done to everyone involved in this production. The BBC at its best.
Heartbreaking ? i question your sanity mr sapita. We are as likely to find heartache in this series as we are on the moon . I hereby section you under the uk mental health act you have the right to be silent if you break silence you shall be gagged on put in a padded room .
@@PapaPalpatine666 Are you sure you are watching the right series? There have been many sad moments. If you are referring to Wolf Hall your heart must be of stone!
Do you mean Richard Rich? (Rafe is played by Thomas Brody Sangster & isn’t in this scene). Agree that Sir Mark Rylance is a joy to watch. Really admire this actor!
Different level. Did you see The Guardian 50 best TV shows of 2024 had it 6th. The top 5 are yet to be published but I can't think of anything that comes close?
I love how Cromwell's not scared, merely disgusted. When he destroyed Anne Boleyn he did so in the full knowledge that he was doing a terrible thing, but didn't have any good alternatives, and he never pretended to himself that any of it was actually justified. He also looked her right in the eye as she was arrested (unlike her uncle Norfolk who lacked the guts to do so). Having this rabble of spineless worms and gleeful sadists (many of whom are only alive and/or powerful because of him) actually JUDGE him is more aggravating than the prospect of death.
@@jellicle2023 Yes, I had to look up what happened to Norfolk (and the despicable Wriesley) post Cromwell. No justice indeed and Rylance's Cromwell summed it up well to his face when he said he, Norfolk, the Poles and Courtneys, viewed the kings family as a temporary interruption to their own rule (they were from the Yorkist side before Henry VII came to the throne).
He may not have held any illusions or pretensions that his acts on Henry's behalf weren't terrible but a necessary political reality to avoid another bloody, civil war if Henry died without a male heir but his unapologetic scheming, plotting and "thuggish" intimidation tactics at Lord Chancellor to what he did to Katherine of Aragon, Thomas More, Thomas Fisher, Anne Boleyn plus the fact that most of Henry's nobles and high-ranking gentry disliked him due to his low birth (like Cardinal Wolsley before him) and it really was only a matter of time before one of those avenging, antagonistic nobles found something on Cromwell that would implicate him enough that Henry would have him arrested and executed for treason or some other trumped-up charge. Cromwell made a lot of the wrong enemies way too fast and these powerful political enemies were in the long run, far more powerful and influential then he was that he could successfully hold them off indefinitely. Cromwell, in reality, didn't have too many political allies after Anne Boleyn's death and aside from the King's support, he was left very vulnerable. I do think Cromwell eventually retires from court politics and dies an old man if Jane Seymour doesn't die from post-birth complications. In retrospect, it mightve been wise if Cromwell had retired from court politics after Seymour's death because while she died unfortunately, Cromwell's and Henry's long, frustrating task had been achieved: Henry VIII now had a male heir. If I'm Cromwell, as terrible as Seymour's death is, what reason do I have to be around here anymore?
@@davidroberts7282 That's an interesting perspective and one I'd agree with entirely but for Thomas More, I'll lose no sleep over him. The Man for all Seasons? Unless Hillary Mantel is particularly unfair to him? Mantel also echos your last point with Cromwells illegitimate daughter urging him to return to Antwerp. Did the unheard of power for one so low born prove too much to be resisted? Or was it concern for the ongoing welfare of Gregory?
That Cromwell actually succeeded where his distant ancestor failed and for 5-6 years until he died, he ruled England more like a military dictatorship but some have argued, a King in all but name alone and Oliver Cromwell did strongly consider at one point, naming himself a king but reconsidered after he was informed it might anger some high-ranking officers in his very politicized New Model Army. If Oliver Cromwell had lived maybe a decade or so longer, it's plausible the notion of the Commonwealth remaining some semblance of a full republic, or becoming more like the Dutch staat holders, an "elected monarchy" where the major nobles and lawmakers elect or appoint a king and he rules sort of akin to "first amongst equals" which ironically, is sort of what Parliament arranged with Charles II's representatives in Holland before his announced Restoration in 1660. Charles II did insist on some of the more major Parliamentarians who judged, decided over and signed his father's death sentence (at least those still in England in 1660) to be put on trial for regicide, including Parliament's main prosecutor in 1649 and a hot-headed Puritan firebrand who returned from colonies to serve as Parliament's unofficial religious, political propogandist.
This Cromwell was brilliant. Sometimes, i supported him. Other times I wondered whether he was what the others alleged. Great job by all. Hilary Mantell's writing, great direction, and superb acting by Mark Rylance. A pity there can't be a third series.
You had the rich lords going against the poor bit educated. The catholics going against protestants. And using every method to seek advantage and to remove enemies. This also included illegal torture. The even had an arrest warrant out for Catherine Parr, luckily she was made aware of it. It wasn't just Henry VIII being a monster.
Every time Riche said or did anything on screen, I couldn't help but hear Moore's words in A Man for All Seasons. "But, Richard, for Wales?" He really was a nasty piece of work.
Hilary Mantel. A brilliant tribute to 'Danny Dyer's', famous ancestor 'Thomas Cromwell'. Her book Wolf Hall, and Mark Rylances brilliant portrayal of this man in the BBC drama, totally makes you fall in love with & feel for ' Cromwell's', underlying humanity through the situation that he is in, and the fates that he has little choice over. She brings him to life as being brave, intelligent, loyal in his reserve, ephemeral, dignified, a true man.
Rylance understates Cromwell so much its interesting to see the 'steel' come out it scenes like this. None of them could lay a finger on him in this scene but Cromwell knows he's doomed anyway.
What is so poignant, of course, in all of this, is that, after so much intrigue and slaughter, all for the purpose of trying to provide a male heir for Henry, our present King is descended, instead, from his sister Margaret! Then, the belief that the nation could never survive under a female Sovereign has been disproved, by Mary I, Elizabeth I, Mary II, Anne, Victoria and Elizabeth II.
Mary I had a terrible time ruling, disliked by nearly all and sundry. It was hardly rule and more simple existence. Elizabeth was heavily influenced by several men, such as Cecil. Many battles were fought by her nobles and decisions made by her ministers. Mary II had the assistance of the William Prince of Orange, Anne I know too little about, but Victoria was again influenced by men such as Albert during their reign, and the Ministers in Parliament begin to take the reigns at this period. As for Elizabeth II, she was a good figurehead, but hardly a monarch by the standards of her ancestors. Such was her inheritance. While I agree that the people of the time overexaggerated the dangers of a queen over a king, We'd had unchecked ambition by queens and powerful ladies in this country before, and it was far more destructive than most of the worst kings.
Remember the wars of the roses was the bloodiest fighting on English soil,also remember the civil war between Maude and Stephen,Henry VIII came to the throne via Victory primarily through the Stanley's betrayal of Richard iii at bosworth. Remember the princes in the tower showed what could happen during a minority kingship and Henry VIII older brother died,and in some quarters that could show god's disapproval. Add that to the lack of male heirs. Henry,and England,needed that heir.
@ Given the relative strengths of their supporters, it was expected that the forces of Lady Jane Grey would defeat those of Mary. A set of fortuitous circumstances led to the forces of Mary gaining the victory. So, we might, very well, have had a Queen Jane. By another unexpected turn of events, we did not, as Parliament intended, have a Queen Sophia - she died of a severe chill three weeks before Queen Anne so never succeeded to the Throne.
I don't think it was treason. Cromwell here is made to sound as if he tried to avoid more bloodshed than there was. Whether it was down to him I don't know. Henry just needed to save face by having a scapegoat to blame for the failed marriage with Anne of Cleves. Henry detested being humiliated or feeling that he was. Also I suspect, as he had his eye on marriage with Catherine Howard, that Cromwell's enemy, Catherine's Uncle Norfolk, was working on Henry behind the scenes to procure his downfall, Gardiner too, I imagine.
He wasn't guilty, the charges were phony. Cromwell was hated by most of the privy council (& many others). They took advantage of the king's anger (which was directed at Cromwell due to the marriage situation) to convince Henry that Cromwell had committed treason. It’s why there was no trial. If there was a trial he’d have been found not guilty. They wanted him dead, so they took advantage of a law which allows parliament to skip trial & automatically find him guilty. & Henry found out shortly after the execution. Long story short, Henry was paranoid that Cromwell’s close associates might be plotting against him so the likes of Rafe were arrested & interagated. Rafe provided evidence that got him released very quickly. We don’t know what the evidence was but it seemed to be enough to convince Henry that Cromwell was innocent as about a month later the french ambassador wrote about the king lamenting the loss of his “most loyal servant” blaming Cromwell’s enemies for misleading him with false accusations. As for his son, he was given back some of the land/properties that were taken from his dad when he was initially convicted & was invited back to court. Norfolk was arrested a few years later (his son commited treason) Henry wanted him killed (possible that this made Henry question his loyalty). Unfortunately he was due to be executed on the day Henry died, so it was called off. the exceution was quietly cancelled by the council & he was pardoned by Mary I a few years later. Gardiner didn't have any kind of close calls like that , but there are signs He'd fallen down the pecking order in the years after this (perhaps in part due to his involvement here, but we don't know)
They knew that, and it is like watching rats turn on each other. Henry killed Cromwell because he was annoyed about a failed marriage.But Norfolk actually had a claim to the throne and was thus a potential threat to Henry (they were distantly related). Norfolk's eldest son rather foolishly incorporated the arms of Edward the Confessor in his own heraldry, which was taken to imply a claim to the throne, and was executed. Norfolk was himself under sentence of death but Henry died before the sentence could be signed. He still stayed in prison.
Henry must have been very paranoid to interpret that as a threat because Edward the Confessor had last reigned nearly 500 years before being killed by a Norman arrow through his eye at the Battle of Hastings in 1066 and Confessor was the last Anglo-Saxon king of England and most medieval English historians will tell you pre-1066 England was a radically different country culturally, politically and even socially. Before the Norman Conquest, English royal houses, nobility, entire political infrastructure was heavily Scandivinavian influenced and many historians believe England might be culturally, politically akin to Norway or Iceland today if it weren't for Norman Conquest. England pre-1066 had far closer ties to Scandivinavia then mainstream Continental Europe. It strikes me as odd that even Henry would be that paranoid of any royal pretender or threat based on him using the icons and heraldry of a long-dead King who.didnt even share the same ethnicity or lineage the Tudors had.
I never thought I would feel that amount of pity for Thomas Cromwell. Mark Rylance this is thy doing! Damien Lewis also an immense Henry VIII in every way. Some of Cromwell's deeds were horrendous, but he was a Tudor public servant who was loyal to his King in a court full of conspirators. His advice on foreign policy was basically sound at that time. Apparently Henry VIII finding himself with less capable or courageous advisers following his marriage to Catherine Howard regretted having Cromwell executed. Catherine Parr did prove herself to be trustworthy and Henry appointed her Regent while he went to war in France. She undertook her role with skill and intelligence.
Thank you. Yeah you totally said it right. In the End it was really a loss to Henry to be surrounded by 'Yes men creeps of a lesser intelligence, & manly engagement'. This still Echoes from the past to the present day. To not take the lesser options or do hindsight regrets. 😊❤ love your comment. Great!
In the end, poor Cromwell describes himself in 'an open context of brave defiance' , to Norfolk and others: As being like ' a dog or a slave ', who had no choice but to give service, but still be mistrustd by the very rewards bestowed. Like a dangerous & harmful affection. I love this man so much, the next time I'm in London I'm taking a reef of tribute for him by the Thames. What incredible humaness & bravery against the odds.
0:18 - “Oh dear, he’ll have to find somewhere else to have his dinner.” - Fantastically dry sense of humour, excellent timing. I’m not familiar with Mark Rylance’s work, but what little I’ve seen of Wolf Hall has made me realise I need to see more of his work!
Indeed …. Watched it all at least twice - but enjoying the full reading of The Mirror and the Light read by Ben Miles (Cromwell in the initial stage version) it’s on Spotify - not the BBC’s shortened version.
Mr. Rylens, it's stupid to hope that you will read this here, but since there is minimal hope, I can't help but write. This series struck me. I saw a wise courtier in your Cromwell, but here I saw a sarcastic, self-confident Italian mercenary, as if Cromwell from his past incarnated in him again before his death. The way you showed your departure with Cromwell's unprincipled win, the way you changed your view of those who issued an indictment - as if Cromwell no longer had a reason to pretend in his respect for his former associates - is higher than a brilliant, stunning game. And especially your view of Cromwell, when he looked at Reesley - everything was said without words.
Brilliant acting by ' Timothy Spall ', When you know that it is really 'Norfolk', who would be slimey enough to break his word instead. Sublimely acted as this hypocritical little cad 😮
@@heliotropezzz333 They lacked Cromwell's administrative ability. Not to say that they were hopeless incompetents but Cromwell was good at running things.
Henry VIII habitually blamed everyone but himself as did so many monarchs. How could anyone appointed by God be mistaken or wrong? They had to be the victims of false or malicious information. He regretted the execution of Thomas More as well. If anyone is interested Tracy Borman's book "Henry VIII and the men who made him: The secret history behind the Tudor throne" is worth reading. She also made a three part series based on her text.
It is a common misconception that Cromwell's execution was botched. On research it would appear he was killed instantly and did not suffer as was once the thought. Initially it was believed the axe hit him in the head and that the executioner was drunk when in fact it didn't and he wasn't. His head was added to traitors gate so must've been in a condition to display. Many of the claims of the botched execution were written over 40 years later.
OMG you are in for a treat….im actually jealous that you still have this to look forward to. Get yourself a large Bourbon ,switch your phone off and just wallow in its production .
Using Wormtail makes it so much easier for me to despise Norfolk. I miss Bernard Hill (RIP), but truth, was, I felt sympathy for his Norfolk because at heart, he will always be Theoden.
That opportunist Thomas Wriothesley is mostly cut out of this scene. The disgust Cromwell shows towards him is plain to see considering it was mostly Wriothesley's words that condemned him!
CROMWELL FACES THEM ALL BACK ON THE 'QUESTION' OF THEIR OWN POSITION OF STANDING & VULNERABILITY? AS IF IT IS 'THEY' WHO ARE ON TRIAL AND NOT HIMSELF. WHAT A MAN!!! WHAT WOMAN WOULD NOT WANT HIM IN THEIR BED !? (JUST DONT TELL HENRY!!!)
An interesting question for a pub quiz. After Queen Elizabeth II, which of our Sovereigns lived to be the second oldest? Answer? Richard Cromwell, who while only Sovereign for nine months, lived to die at the age of 85.
It's King Henry himself, the master & not his dog slaves: Who should have thought that ' An honest man as ' Moore', was less likely to betray him than the suck up cringers. I think that Elizabeth 1st would have tried to tell him this, but Henry be like 'brake the table in anger!!! But 4 sure he regretted honest man gone afterwards
@@EluminahArty Elizabeth would've had Thomas More killed as well as Thomas was not on good terms with her mother, who may have been the one to instigate Thomas's murder. Henry is ultimately responsible of course, but Cromwell is not innocent.
Earlier in Hilary's accounts & tails of Cromwell's life. She brilliantly brings to life how : Jane Seymours Gorgeously Atrractive female relative offers herself to Cromwell: but his eyes talk in the loudest silence ever as ' No, No, No, No ' the King will have me on suspicion charges'. But this is the most crucial moment that 'Hilary', shows Cromwell with a greater innocence. That he should not have been ultimately blamed 4 conspiracy
Thank you, Cromwell, for all your work in putting England on the course that would one day make her a Protestant nation - despite the anti-Lutheran prejudice of a monarch who thought he was cleverer than he was.
Was that a good thing? Because it seems to me, as a foreigner, that the UK would have done pretty much the same things it did, without Protestantism. If anything, the Reformation caused more turmoil and trouble than it was worth. England would have still risen to become a global power had it remained Catholic.
Not quite as ‘gripping’ as ‘Wolf Hall’. Hilary Mantel,I feel, would not have be impressed with casting choices. I wasn’t! Mark Rylance was, however, superb in his role as Cromwell. This mini series did not do full justice to the final book of Mantel’s brilliant work or show Rich’s ,Gardiner’s and `Norfolk’s sheer malice and hatred and ultimate betrayal of Cromwell.
@@heliotropezzz333the multitude of black actors in court as nobles and as guards, we only know of one black Tudor and he was a trumpeter, there were ZERO black nobles in the country, and somehow Wolsey's daughter was Indian....
Do you have some examples? It's not a history, it's a novel so you would not expect complete accuracy, partly because the author would have to guess some scenes that are not recorded in history and partly because of dramatic licence. My surpise was how forthright Cromwell was sometimes in expressing his (unwelcome) views to Henry. Historically I don't think he would have dared.
@ good point. Perhaps I should read Mantels novel. I think Cromwell must have been quite bold and no doubt Henry at least initially, appreciated and possibly liked this characteristic of him. He was quite successful and this engendered jealousy and enemies who determined his downfall by briefing against him. I think this aspect is plausible.
The second series didn't quite live up to the impossibly high bar the first season set, but it was still an 8/10. It's a shame they decided to cheapen this season with the colorblind casting nonsense. A de-wokeified fan edit using some AI video editing magic to remove that blunder would be amazing.
Everything about this was believable and excellent until the final line “leave it with me, and kick yourself out” which came out of nowhere and absolutely smacks of contemporary slang. Illusion immediately broken. 😂
I get that is off-putting, but on the other hand, I don't see it as completely ruining a series. I've seen good woke stuff and bad woke stuff. Being woke in and of itself can be a minus, but I don't think it ruins things automatically.
It does when it's a series like this and although I do think black and Asian actors should be represented,after all we are a diverse society I really do not think it has a place here .@@octavianpopescu4776
It is hard to feel any sympathy for Cromwell after stitching up so many only to find his own tactics coming back to haunt him. I always felt Mark Rylance was a poor choice for the role of Cromwell. Fine stage actor he might be, but this does not always translate to screen. Laurence Olivier was hammy AF on screen. IMHO Cromwell should have been played by Gary Oldman. God, he would have been electrifying. Lilit Lesser was wonderful as Lady Mary (later Queen Mary I) and Thomas Brodie-Sangster as Rafe Sadler was a complete revelation. What a tremedous performance from him, especially when he knows he is saying goodbye to his mentor and father figure. Wow, just wow!
Completely disagree with your opinion on Mark Rylance. His portrayal of Cromwell may not have been historically accurate, but he brought a sensitivity and vulnerability to Cromwell which added an extra layer to his already nuanced performance. He portrays a man who is incredibly complex and conflicted, and I thought his performance was absolutely compelling! He absolutely owned the part and I can't imagine any other character portraying the role of Cromwell like Rylance
Henry was a monster, but I cannot feel one ounce of sympathy for Cromwell, after his ruthless take down of Anne Boleyn. If this last episode is accurate, he got more leniency than he ever allowed her, getting visitors, not being spied on while arrested and being able to write to the king and for the king to read his letter. Anne, as the king's own wife, got none of those considerations, and could only plead her case in court, where she wasn't even aware of what her charges would be. That's all on Cromwell, who made sure she couldn't work on Henry's conscience to try to save her life. He can rot. This series was far too sympathetic to him.
@heliotropezzz333 Jane Boleyn cast as black. Black people in the Privy Council. Something that would never have happened. Numerous black people in the crowd, black guard, to name a few. This series is another that has fallen to woke diversity! I like history and historical dramas but I hate facts being changed, or in this case untrue character portrayal. Yes I am agreeable to a black character being played by a black actor/actress but when it comes to Anne Boleyn's sister and ladies in waiting it is just ridiculous.
BBC selling out H Mantell is an obscenity. She had no say in this, for obvious reasons, although I have heard a rumour that the Mantell Estate is THINKING of taking legal action for miscasting. We can only hope.
@heliotropezzz333 Jane Seymour's sister played by a black actress, ladies in waiting, members of the Privy Council played by black actors which would never have been, black actors in the crowd scene,, black guards. Cardinal Wolsey's daughter Asian Indian! Absolute travesty. The people who produce characters not true to life must think the viewing public will accept whatever is shown. Some do but a lot do not!
@@dianeunderhill8506 It's dramatic licence. If it helps people from diverse backgrounds to take an interest in English history, I don't mind. It didn't affect the main characters.
Did this happen? He was not charged with a crime. He was attainted. And why was it up to Cromwell to kill a man in Italy. Do we have transcripts for this?
Mark Rylance could act out the phone book and it would be totally mesmerising. He holds you attention with his whole demeanour.
Fantastic acting, fantastic script, and basically fantastic everything! Well done to everyone involved in this production. The BBC at its best.
The scene between Rafe and Cromwell was utterly heartbreaking. Bravo! Superb acting. Mark Rylance is a joy to watch.
Heartbreaking ? i question your sanity mr sapita. We are as likely to find heartache in this series as we are on the moon . I hereby section you under the uk mental health act you have the right to be silent if you break silence you shall be gagged on put in a padded room .
@@PapaPalpatine666 Are you sure you are watching the right series? There have been many sad moments. If you are referring to Wolf Hall your heart must be of stone!
Do you mean Richard Rich?
(Rafe is played by Thomas Brody Sangster & isn’t in this scene).
Agree that Sir Mark Rylance is a joy to watch. Really admire this actor!
@@m.h.6499 The scene was between Rafe and Cromwell!
@@dianeunderhill8506 I’m referring to the one in this video. I don’t see Rafe. (Sincere question).
One of the best TV Series I've seen for a long time, Good Writing and Brilliant Acting.
Absolutely
Different level. Did you see The Guardian 50 best TV shows of 2024 had it 6th. The top 5 are yet to be published but I can't think of anything that comes close?
That "look at me!" made me jump more than Rich
That "look at me" reminded me of Game of Thrones The Hound.
I love how Cromwell's not scared, merely disgusted.
When he destroyed Anne Boleyn he did so in the full knowledge that he was doing a terrible thing, but didn't have any good alternatives, and he never pretended to himself that any of it was actually justified. He also looked her right in the eye as she was arrested (unlike her uncle Norfolk who lacked the guts to do so).
Having this rabble of spineless worms and gleeful sadists (many of whom are only alive and/or powerful because of him) actually JUDGE him is more aggravating than the prospect of death.
Norfolk only escaped execution because Henry died before he could sign the warrant. And Norfolk ended up dying an old man in his bed. No justice.
@@jellicle2023 Yes, I had to look up what happened to Norfolk (and the despicable Wriesley) post Cromwell. No justice indeed and Rylance's Cromwell summed it up well to his face when he said he, Norfolk, the Poles and Courtneys, viewed the kings family as a temporary interruption to their own rule (they were from the Yorkist side before Henry VII came to the throne).
He may not have held any illusions or pretensions that his acts on Henry's behalf weren't terrible but a necessary political reality to avoid another bloody, civil war if Henry died without a male heir but his unapologetic scheming, plotting and "thuggish" intimidation tactics at Lord Chancellor to what he did to Katherine of Aragon, Thomas More, Thomas Fisher, Anne Boleyn plus the fact that most of Henry's nobles and high-ranking gentry disliked him due to his low birth (like Cardinal Wolsley before him) and it really was only a matter of time before one of those avenging, antagonistic nobles found something on Cromwell that would implicate him enough that Henry would have him arrested and executed for treason or some other trumped-up charge.
Cromwell made a lot of the wrong enemies way too fast and these powerful political enemies were in the long run, far more powerful and influential then he was that he could successfully hold them off indefinitely. Cromwell, in reality, didn't have too many political allies after Anne Boleyn's death and aside from the King's support, he was left very vulnerable. I do think Cromwell eventually retires from court politics and dies an old man if Jane Seymour doesn't die from post-birth complications. In retrospect, it mightve been wise if Cromwell had retired from court politics after Seymour's death because while she died unfortunately, Cromwell's and Henry's long, frustrating task had been achieved: Henry VIII now had a male heir. If I'm Cromwell, as terrible as Seymour's death is, what reason do I have to be around here anymore?
@@davidroberts7282 That's an interesting perspective and one I'd agree with entirely but for Thomas More, I'll lose no sleep over him. The Man for all Seasons? Unless Hillary Mantel is particularly unfair to him?
Mantel also echos your last point with Cromwells illegitimate daughter urging him to return to Antwerp. Did the unheard of power for one so low born prove too much to be resisted? Or was it concern for the ongoing welfare of Gregory?
"Now kick yourselves out" rhe bravado!
I came to say the same!!
'the king hates a man who breaks his word' - thats fkin hilarious
Yes exactly...and coming from the very sneaky & slimey 'lord Norfolk', but ' Timothy Spall ', plays this baddie sublimely.
Excellent production. Well done to all involved. Mark Rylance brilliant in the role. Can't wait for a similar series.
Perhaps the other Cromwell?.........that could be another Wolf Hall.
@@neilsailing Warts and all?! 😊
That Cromwell actually succeeded where his distant ancestor failed and for 5-6 years until he died, he ruled England more like a military dictatorship but some have argued, a King in all but name alone and Oliver Cromwell did strongly consider at one point, naming himself a king but reconsidered after he was informed it might anger some high-ranking officers in his very politicized New Model Army. If Oliver Cromwell had lived maybe a decade or so longer, it's plausible the notion of the Commonwealth remaining some semblance of a full republic, or becoming more like the Dutch staat holders, an "elected monarchy" where the major nobles and lawmakers elect or appoint a king and he rules sort of akin to "first amongst equals" which ironically, is sort of what Parliament arranged with Charles II's representatives in Holland before his announced Restoration in 1660. Charles II did insist on some of the more major Parliamentarians who judged, decided over and signed his father's death sentence (at least those still in England in 1660) to be put on trial for regicide, including Parliament's main prosecutor in 1649 and a hot-headed Puritan firebrand who returned from colonies to serve as Parliament's unofficial religious, political propogandist.
I did honestly prefer watching Cromwell rise to power. This season has been very sad to watch
agreed
perhaps fittingly
This Cromwell was brilliant. Sometimes, i supported him. Other times I wondered whether he was what the others alleged. Great job by all. Hilary Mantell's writing, great direction, and superb acting by Mark Rylance. A pity there can't be a third series.
And the costume design?
@@olivergill2903Yes, indeed. Every element really lifted the production. I was riveted by the whole thing, and that's unusual these days.
You just knew how Cromwell's story ends, but this is still brutal.
Absolutely riveting last episode. Bravo !
Look at me ! I jumped out of my skin !
Mark Rylance is fantastic! I wish this show didn't finish
Cromwell was fine in using Richard Rich to allege things about Thomas More in open court. How the tables have turned.
Interesting they were happy to try More in court but Gardiner did not want to risk it with Cromwell
You had the rich lords going against the poor bit educated. The catholics going against protestants. And using every method to seek advantage and to remove enemies. This also included illegal torture. The even had an arrest warrant out for Catherine Parr, luckily she was made aware of it. It wasn't just Henry VIII being a monster.
Except Thomas More was guilty of what they accused him of.
Every time Riche said or did anything on screen, I couldn't help but hear Moore's words in A Man for All Seasons. "But, Richard, for Wales?" He really was a nasty piece of work.
@@GiliGulu1969 Please share what More was guilty of and on what grounds?
Fantastic drama, Mark Rylance was amazing
Hilary Mantel. A brilliant tribute to 'Danny Dyer's', famous ancestor
'Thomas Cromwell'.
Her book Wolf Hall, and Mark Rylances brilliant portrayal of this man in the BBC drama, totally makes you fall in love with & feel for
' Cromwell's', underlying humanity through the situation that he is in,
and the fates that he has little choice over. She brings him to life as
being brave, intelligent, loyal in his reserve, ephemeral, dignified, a true man.
Nobody does period historical dramas like the BBC.
Rylance understates Cromwell so much its interesting to see the 'steel' come out it scenes like this. None of them could lay a finger on him in this scene but Cromwell knows he's doomed anyway.
What is so poignant, of course, in all of this, is that, after so much intrigue and slaughter, all for the purpose of trying to provide a male heir for Henry, our present King is descended, instead, from his sister Margaret! Then, the belief that the nation could never survive under a female Sovereign has been disproved, by Mary I, Elizabeth I, Mary II, Anne, Victoria and Elizabeth II.
For mine almost none of the male sovereigns of England/Britain/UK compare remotely to the two Elizabeths and Victoria.
Mary I had a terrible time ruling, disliked by nearly all and sundry. It was hardly rule and more simple existence. Elizabeth was heavily influenced by several men, such as Cecil. Many battles were fought by her nobles and decisions made by her ministers.
Mary II had the assistance of the William Prince of Orange, Anne I know too little about, but Victoria was again influenced by men such as Albert during their reign, and the Ministers in Parliament begin to take the reigns at this period. As for Elizabeth II, she was a good figurehead, but hardly a monarch by the standards of her ancestors. Such was her inheritance.
While I agree that the people of the time overexaggerated the dangers of a queen over a king, We'd had unchecked ambition by queens and powerful ladies in this country before, and it was far more destructive than most of the worst kings.
Remember the wars of the roses was the bloodiest fighting on English soil,also remember the civil war between Maude and Stephen,Henry VIII came to the throne via Victory primarily through the Stanley's betrayal of Richard iii at bosworth. Remember the princes in the tower showed what could happen during a minority kingship and Henry VIII older brother died,and in some quarters that could show god's disapproval. Add that to the lack of male heirs. Henry,and England,needed that heir.
@ Given the relative strengths of their supporters, it was expected that the forces of Lady Jane Grey would defeat those of Mary. A set of fortuitous circumstances led to the forces of Mary gaining the victory. So, we might, very well, have had a Queen Jane. By another unexpected turn of events, we did not, as Parliament intended, have a Queen Sophia - she died of a severe chill three weeks before Queen Anne so never succeeded to the Throne.
I wouldn't count Mary I's reign in with those others like it was some kind of a success.
I don't think it was treason. Cromwell here is made to sound as if he tried to avoid more bloodshed than there was. Whether it was down to him I don't know. Henry just needed to save face by having a scapegoat to blame for the failed marriage with Anne of Cleves. Henry detested being humiliated or feeling that he was. Also I suspect, as he had his eye on marriage with Catherine Howard, that Cromwell's enemy, Catherine's Uncle Norfolk, was working on Henry behind the scenes to procure his downfall, Gardiner too, I imagine.
He wasn't guilty, the charges were phony.
Cromwell was hated by most of the privy council (& many others). They took advantage of the king's anger (which was directed at Cromwell due to the marriage situation) to convince Henry that Cromwell had committed treason.
It’s why there was no trial. If there was a trial he’d have been found not guilty. They wanted him dead, so they took advantage of a law which allows parliament to skip trial & automatically find him guilty.
& Henry found out shortly after the execution.
Long story short, Henry was paranoid that Cromwell’s close associates might be plotting against him so the likes of Rafe were arrested & interagated. Rafe provided evidence that got him released very quickly. We don’t know what the evidence was but it seemed to be enough to convince Henry that Cromwell was innocent as about a month later the french ambassador wrote about the king lamenting the loss of his “most loyal servant” blaming Cromwell’s enemies for misleading him with false accusations.
As for his son, he was given back some of the land/properties that were taken from his dad when he was initially convicted & was invited back to court.
Norfolk was arrested a few years later (his son commited treason) Henry wanted him killed (possible that this made Henry question his loyalty). Unfortunately he was due to be executed on the day Henry died, so it was called off. the exceution was quietly cancelled by the council & he was pardoned by Mary I a few years later. Gardiner didn't have any kind of close calls like that , but there are signs He'd fallen down the pecking order in the years after this (perhaps in part due to his involvement here, but we don't know)
this is fiction in any case - yo u can believe what you want
These two series show Auntie at her best. Superb
The ending was brilliant.Programme written in first person..so his ending was in first person.
Like the Sopranos
It was brilliant all the way through worth the TV licence on its own loved Wolf Hall to.
Superb series. 🌟
Henry the 8th was a tryant no one was safe in court.
They knew that, and it is like watching rats turn on each other. Henry killed Cromwell because he was annoyed about a failed marriage.But Norfolk actually had a claim to the throne and was thus a potential threat to Henry (they were distantly related). Norfolk's eldest son rather foolishly incorporated the arms of Edward the Confessor in his own heraldry, which was taken to imply a claim to the throne, and was executed. Norfolk was himself under sentence of death but Henry died before the sentence could be signed. He still stayed in prison.
Henry must have been very paranoid to interpret that as a threat because Edward the Confessor had last reigned nearly 500 years before being killed by a Norman arrow through his eye at the Battle of Hastings in 1066 and Confessor was the last Anglo-Saxon king of England and most medieval English historians will tell you pre-1066 England was a radically different country culturally, politically and even socially. Before the Norman Conquest, English royal houses, nobility, entire political infrastructure was heavily Scandivinavian influenced and many historians believe England might be culturally, politically akin to Norway or Iceland today if it weren't for Norman Conquest. England pre-1066 had far closer ties to Scandivinavia then mainstream Continental Europe.
It strikes me as odd that even Henry would be that paranoid of any royal pretender or threat based on him using the icons and heraldry of a long-dead King who.didnt even share the same ethnicity or lineage the Tudors had.
I never thought I would feel that amount of pity for Thomas Cromwell. Mark Rylance this is thy doing! Damien Lewis also an immense Henry VIII in every way.
Some of Cromwell's deeds were horrendous, but he was a Tudor public servant who was loyal to his King in a court full of conspirators. His advice on foreign policy was basically sound at that time.
Apparently Henry VIII finding himself with less capable or courageous advisers following his marriage to Catherine Howard regretted having Cromwell executed. Catherine Parr did prove herself to be trustworthy and Henry appointed her Regent while he went to war in France. She undertook her role with skill and intelligence.
Thank you. Yeah you totally said it right. In the End it was really a loss to Henry to be surrounded by 'Yes men creeps of a lesser intelligence, & manly engagement'. This still Echoes from the past to the present day. To not take the lesser options or do hindsight regrets. 😊❤ love your comment. Great!
In the end, poor Cromwell describes himself in 'an open context of brave defiance' , to Norfolk and others: As being like ' a dog or a slave ', who had no choice but to give service, but still be mistrustd by the very rewards bestowed. Like a dangerous & harmful affection. I love this man so much, the next time I'm in London I'm taking a reef of tribute for him by the Thames. What incredible humaness & bravery against the odds.
0:18 - “Oh dear, he’ll have to find somewhere else to have his dinner.” - Fantastically dry sense of humour, excellent timing. I’m not familiar with Mark Rylance’s work, but what little I’ve seen of Wolf Hall has made me realise I need to see more of his work!
He has quite a range: Big Friendly Giant, Dunkirk, Ready Player One, Bridge of Spies.
Mark Rylance should along with the rest of the great cast should win Oscars for this great series .
Rylance was suited to his Cromwell Character 😢
As it’s not a film the chances of winning Oscar’s is not on the table …. Let’s see what the BAFTAs say
Wonderful series more please!! ❤
I thought Alex Jennings was wonderful as Stephen Gardiner - truly menacing. A small part but he filled the screen every time he appeared.
Brilliant acting, the best series of the Year.
Mark Rylance is amazing
Five star performance.
Saw it! This is an excellent film series and an amazing cast. 👍👏👏🏆 And read the book too.
Still so sad the series is over forever :(
No more books, no more episodes...
Indeed …. Watched it all at least twice - but enjoying the full reading of The Mirror and the Light read by Ben Miles (Cromwell in the initial stage version) it’s on Spotify - not the BBC’s shortened version.
I found the whole thing heartbreaking.
Mr. Rylens, it's stupid to hope that you will read this here, but since there is minimal hope, I can't help but write. This series struck me. I saw a wise courtier in your Cromwell, but here I saw a sarcastic, self-confident Italian mercenary, as if Cromwell from his past incarnated in him again before his death. The way you showed your departure with Cromwell's unprincipled win, the way you changed your view of those who issued an indictment - as if Cromwell no longer had a reason to pretend in his respect for his former associates - is higher than a brilliant, stunning game. And especially your view of Cromwell, when he looked at Reesley - everything was said without words.
Cromwell must have realised this meeting/interrogation was a waste of time. When Henry wanted you gone, you were gone.
Grown up TV in stark contrasr to 'Blue Peteresque' BBC mainstream.
Brilliant acting, direction, production and music. More please.
Amazing actor's absolutely brilliant drama 👏👏
The fragmenty scene of Catherine Howard throwing a hissy fit over her dress fitting showed exactly how she would end. Brilliant cameo 3:04
Brilliant acting by ' Timothy Spall ', When you know that it is really 'Norfolk', who would be slimey enough to break his word instead. Sublimely acted as this hypocritical little cad 😮
I'd like another series showing what happened after because Henry was supposed to have regretted it.
And the government was clueless from then on.
@@heliotropezzz333 They lacked Cromwell's administrative ability. Not to say that they were hopeless incompetents but Cromwell was good at running things.
Sadly, the author is deceased.
@@stevekaczynski3793 Agreed.
Henry VIII habitually blamed everyone but himself as did so many monarchs. How could anyone appointed by God be mistaken or wrong? They had to be the victims of false or malicious information. He regretted the execution of Thomas More as well.
If anyone is interested Tracy Borman's book "Henry VIII and the men who made him: The secret history behind the Tudor throne" is worth reading. She also made a three part series based on her text.
It is a common misconception that Cromwell's execution was botched. On research it would appear he was killed instantly and did not suffer as was once the thought. Initially it was believed the axe hit him in the head and that the executioner was drunk when in fact it didn't and he wasn't. His head was added to traitors gate so must've been in a condition to display. Many of the claims of the botched execution were written over 40 years later.
The cast is absolutely wonderful. How can we see this in the US?
It will air on PBS starting in late March 2025.
You are in for an absolute treat!
Piratebay
OMG you are in for a treat….im actually jealous that you still have this to look forward to. Get yourself a large Bourbon ,switch your phone off and just wallow in its production .
Dudley Dursley & Peter Pettigrew 😂
Oh thanks for that. I didn't recognise Dudley Dursley.
Using Wormtail makes it so much easier for me to despise Norfolk. I miss Bernard Hill (RIP), but truth, was, I felt sympathy for his Norfolk because at heart, he will always be Theoden.
@ Right? And he got so old. Nicer to remember him as Theoden King
Baftas at the ready superb
That opportunist Thomas Wriothesley is mostly cut out of this scene. The disgust Cromwell shows towards him is plain to see considering it was mostly Wriothesley's words that condemned him!
CROMWELL FACES THEM ALL BACK ON THE 'QUESTION' OF THEIR OWN POSITION OF STANDING & VULNERABILITY? AS IF IT IS 'THEY' WHO ARE ON TRIAL AND NOT HIMSELF. WHAT A MAN!!! WHAT WOMAN WOULD NOT WANT HIM IN THEIR BED !? (JUST DONT TELL HENRY!!!)
An interesting question for a pub quiz. After Queen Elizabeth II, which of our Sovereigns lived to be the second oldest? Answer? Richard Cromwell, who while only Sovereign for nine months, lived to die at the age of 85.
Being a nonentity was safer.
Richard Cromwell was not a sovereign
Oliver Cromwell nor his kin were ever officially monarchs.
@ You get your head on the coins - you’re the Sovereign!
I certainly got 'Line of Duty' circa 1540 vibes from this scene
PLEASE GIVE ME NOTHING, UNLESS THE REWARDS BECOME THE ROBBERY OF MY WHOLE SOUL'S DIGNITY & SELF ESTEEM OR REPUATION
Its only what he put Thomas More through. What goes around comes around as they say.
It's King Henry himself, the master & not his dog slaves: Who should have thought that ' An honest man as ' Moore', was less likely to betray him than the suck up cringers. I think that Elizabeth 1st would have tried to tell him this, but Henry be like 'brake the table in anger!!! But 4 sure he regretted honest man gone afterwards
@@EluminahArty Elizabeth would've had Thomas More killed as well as Thomas was not on good terms with her mother, who may have been the one to instigate Thomas's murder. Henry is ultimately responsible of course, but Cromwell is not innocent.
Nothing Less .
The old man Norfolk, saw him in Brother Cadfael , minor role in “virgin in the ice”….
Earlier in Hilary's accounts & tails of Cromwell's life. She brilliantly brings to life how : Jane Seymours Gorgeously Atrractive female relative offers herself to Cromwell: but his eyes talk in the loudest silence ever as
' No, No, No, No ' the King will have me on suspicion charges'. But this is the most crucial moment that 'Hilary', shows Cromwell with a greater innocence. That he should not have been ultimately blamed 4 conspiracy
Rudolf Abel, Peter Pettigrew, and Edward VIII walk into a bar...
Of course he wasn't a traitor, he was just too clever and powerful and als a commoner of course He ran rings round the feeble minded aristocrats
Thank you, Cromwell, for all your work in putting England on the course that would one day make her a Protestant nation - despite the anti-Lutheran prejudice of a monarch who thought he was cleverer than he was.
Religion has caused most conflicts in the world.
Was that a good thing? Because it seems to me, as a foreigner, that the UK would have done pretty much the same things it did, without Protestantism. If anything, the Reformation caused more turmoil and trouble than it was worth. England would have still risen to become a global power had it remained Catholic.
Norfolk managed to survive as the premier Catholic nobleman.
Cromwell had it commin.
Not quite as ‘gripping’ as ‘Wolf Hall’. Hilary Mantel,I feel, would not have be impressed with casting choices. I wasn’t! Mark Rylance was, however, superb in his role as Cromwell. This mini series did not do full justice to the final book of Mantel’s brilliant work or show Rich’s ,Gardiner’s and `Norfolk’s sheer malice and hatred and ultimate betrayal of Cromwell.
Which casting choices disappointed you?
@@heliotropezzz333the multitude of black actors in court as nobles and as guards, we only know of one black Tudor and he was a trumpeter, there were ZERO black nobles in the country, and somehow Wolsey's daughter was Indian....
Very kind to the real Cromwell.
Superb acting and great series, but for the cultural lies in evidence throughout.
Do you have some examples? It's not a history, it's a novel so you would not expect complete accuracy, partly because the author would have to guess some scenes that are not recorded in history and partly because of dramatic licence. My surpise was how forthright Cromwell was sometimes in expressing his (unwelcome) views to Henry. Historically I don't think he would have dared.
@ good point. Perhaps I should read Mantels novel. I think Cromwell must have been quite bold and no doubt Henry at least initially, appreciated and possibly liked this characteristic of him. He was quite successful and this engendered jealousy and enemies who determined his downfall by briefing against him. I think this aspect is plausible.
The second series didn't quite live up to the impossibly high bar the first season set, but it was still an 8/10. It's a shame they decided to cheapen this season with the colorblind casting nonsense. A de-wokeified fan edit using some AI video editing magic to remove that blunder would be amazing.
Everything about this was believable and excellent until the final line “leave it with me, and kick yourself out” which came out of nowhere and absolutely smacks of contemporary slang. Illusion immediately broken. 😂
The recent series was woke nonsense, placing black people where there weren't any. Where were the Orientals and why no Asians.
Wolsey’s daughter was Asian.. apparently..
I get that is off-putting, but on the other hand, I don't see it as completely ruining a series. I've seen good woke stuff and bad woke stuff. Being woke in and of itself can be a minus, but I don't think it ruins things automatically.
It does when it's a series like this and although I do think black and Asian actors should be represented,after all we are a diverse society I really do not think it has a place here .@@octavianpopescu4776
@@octavianpopescu4776 Yes it does!
How do you know there weren't people of colour in the Tudor dynasty?
It is hard to feel any sympathy for Cromwell after stitching up so many only to find his own tactics coming back to haunt him. I always felt Mark Rylance was a poor choice for the role of Cromwell. Fine stage actor he might be, but this does not always translate to screen. Laurence Olivier was hammy AF on screen. IMHO Cromwell should have been played by Gary Oldman. God, he would have been electrifying. Lilit Lesser was wonderful as Lady Mary (later Queen Mary I) and Thomas Brodie-Sangster as Rafe Sadler was a complete revelation. What a tremedous performance from him, especially when he knows he is saying goodbye to his mentor and father figure. Wow, just wow!
Completely disagree with your opinion on Mark Rylance. His portrayal of Cromwell may not have been historically accurate, but he brought a sensitivity and vulnerability to Cromwell which added an extra layer to his already nuanced performance. He portrays a man who is incredibly complex and conflicted, and I thought his performance was absolutely compelling! He absolutely owned the part and I can't imagine any other character portraying the role of Cromwell like Rylance
Henry was a monster, but I cannot feel one ounce of sympathy for Cromwell, after his ruthless take down of Anne Boleyn. If this last episode is accurate, he got more leniency than he ever allowed her, getting visitors, not being spied on while arrested and being able to write to the king and for the king to read his letter. Anne, as the king's own wife, got none of those considerations, and could only plead her case in court, where she wasn't even aware of what her charges would be. That's all on Cromwell, who made sure she couldn't work on Henry's conscience to try to save her life. He can rot. This series was far too sympathetic to him.
Why do they talk as though they're on stage.
This channel’s impersonating BBC News? Lol. With these trash videos? 😂
Very good series spoilt by miscasting of characters!
Which ones?
@heliotropezzz333 Jane Boleyn cast as black. Black people in the Privy Council. Something that would never have happened. Numerous black people in the crowd, black guard, to name a few. This series is another that has fallen to woke diversity! I like history and historical dramas but I hate facts being changed, or in this case untrue character portrayal. Yes I am agreeable to a black character being played by a black actor/actress but when it comes to Anne Boleyn's sister and ladies in waiting it is just ridiculous.
BBC selling out H Mantell is an obscenity. She had no say in this, for obvious reasons, although I have heard a rumour that the Mantell Estate is THINKING of taking legal action for miscasting. We can only hope.
@heliotropezzz333 Jane Seymour's sister played by a black actress, ladies in waiting, members of the Privy Council played by black actors which would never have been, black actors in the crowd scene,, black guards. Cardinal Wolsey's daughter Asian Indian! Absolute travesty. The people who produce characters not true to life must think the viewing public will accept whatever is shown. Some do but a lot do not!
@@dianeunderhill8506 It's dramatic licence. If it helps people from diverse backgrounds to take an interest in English history, I don't mind. It didn't affect the main characters.
Adore the speculation…..hate to break this to you all but none of you were there….😂😂
The BBC had to have loads of black actors this time around……made a total nonsense of it all.
Did this happen? He was not charged with a crime. He was attainted. And why was it up to Cromwell to kill a man in Italy. Do we have transcripts for this?