Gotta tell ya folks - I’m 72 and this episode gobsmacked me. I’ve seen a lot of reactions to death and I’ve witnessed a similar circumstance between the best of friends after one of them passed. The fear of loneliness and the fear of not being touched ever again - the exquisite pain of loss - makes people vulnerable. The people I’m speaking of also suffered more from guilt and shame. It had its own price. The rest of us tried to help both - but, it didn’t end well. I was married almost half a century. I felt like Claire when she was sitting on the floor. “How should I do it?” It’s been almost 6 yrs. since my guy passed and it took me almost 2 yrs. to stop that “Stinkn’ Thinking”. I just met a lady who was in her 60s and had just lost her husband. ( Under a year ) He was her only boyfriend and they too had been married forever. We were at a cocktail gathering in the neighborhood and somehow she made her way to me. She wept. Told me her story. Asked me if I ever felt like checking out. And, the best thing I could do is be honest with her and listen. I hoped I helped.
I was clinging on to this man’s lips and eyes in these scenes. Believing every emotion he converted through his expressions and body language. Sam’s talented beyond words. What a master class in acting.
I agree 100 percent regarding Sam /Jamie....He has made us feel as though he were him.... However ....Sam is not that way in all movies... Jamie is HIS lifetime masterpiece.
Well said. He is Oscar worthy if there were Oscars for television. He is just soooo emotional in every scene that calls for it, with the eyes tearing up and the mouth quiver. I just can't imagine another actor doing this character justice. Gabaldon has to be so very pleased with their choice for Jamie.
So good, so good. "That bloody Englishman". Jamie both loves John for loving him and hates him for loving him. Claire gets it. And Jamie gets Claire too.. knows she is a kinetic person, she needed to feel and express her grief physically somehow. And Jamie has to (reluctantly) realise that John was there for her too. The acting, wow! Very much how I pictured that conversation in the book (except in a garden, of course).
@@MeyaRoseGirl That's such a good point! AND now they have BOTH slept with Claire while they raised HIS KIDS! I'd be so pissed if I were Jamie. I love John still and was so angry when I first saw that Claire and he had slept together too, but come on! This is getting ridiculous! Jamie's entanglements with Englishmen, oooiiih. Smh😅🤭
I love watching thrse 2 they are so belivable! I love that feeling of being so lost in his story the pressure of my day is gone somewhere beyond me!I love Outlander !Thank ypu,Starz for bringing this epic story to life!
Yeah, she is in a class all by herself. I have said that both her and Sam deserve Oscars if there were such a thing for television. Somehow, Emmys just don't do them justice.
This was a very emotional moment for both of them. Both were relieved that they were able to express their feelings. Their love for each other is very intense and admirable. They are true sole mates.
The raw emotion between Jamie and Claire in this episode really struck me! These two have been through so much during all the years we have watched Outlander and I have been with them all the way! I can see both sides of their situation- it’s really unique but in the end we know they will forgive each other because their love is boundless! We just love Jamie and Claire together and now Jamie has to apologize to Lord John and forgive him too! 🤍💙🙏🏻
After finally hearing Claire's explanation, Jamie TRULY listened, and acknowledged JLG's role in his life, as a Healing Presence. Right there, he FORGAVE John [ and C ] for Sleeping w his wife, but it will take years to forgive the MAJOR LINE that John crossed upon shouting "We were both f-ing YOU". PTSD is POWERFUL, all encompassing and life altering !!
I understand Jamies perspective here but that was really a low blow. To say she thinks with her body is just like a punch in the stomach. I felt that😂What i love about Claires character is shes relatable. I have never watched a series where ive felt that until Outlander. I just love them together❤️
I agree ..I am glad C slapped him ...with J she does think with her body and her heart and soul with every fiber of her being ...just because the others might not have with J shows that C is with him 100 percent ....it was an insult to say that to her ...He probably said that because he thought that is how she was with LJG but he just ASSUMED! so good slap on C's part .
Maybe this is the book reader in me but the “think with her body” line isn’t meant in anyway to be negative, nor is it a new idea between them. He tells her right from book one whatever she was thinking was plain on her face, she IS a very physical person. It’s why she is a surgeon, why they constantly use touch to center themselves and why she needed to find a physical outlet to be able to grieve. It’s also why he is quick to forgive her for it even if he can’t forgive John, who is NOT a person who thinks with his body. And John crossed a line that goes far beyond sleeping with a woman who he believed to be his lawful wife, but that is a different issue.
Jaime Fraser is a violent and jealous man who runs by his own moral code. It comes out a lot more in the books. In their eyes, Jaime's dead and Claire has no one else but Jaime. John is like OMG, WTH did we do?! All Jaime's thinking about is getting back to her and not understanding what happened. He's curious, furious, and violently jealous. Jaime has to have vengeance for his lost honor, his wife sleeping with his BFF of 20y, and then reclaiming Claire's honor. He wants his answers in jealousy so hence the details.
Great acting Jamie, you deserve an Oscar for your acting better in time great. Lynne wish I could see the show in person but I live in New York. Great!!!!
Although im not 100% understand and accept with Claire explanation, especially making love with John not in sad but in violence!(wasn't she in grief), but both willing to reason out their heart knots with open conversation, which shows they love each other so much and nothing can come in between or break them apart, well said Jamie.
Anger and bargaining are absolutely parts of grief. There is a reason this happens when it does, not in the immediate aftermath, when she is stuck in denial, but as she is pushed out of that and is forced by John’s grief to address the reality of hers. When she reached anger it was going to be so huge she was either going to tear the house down or bloody someone, and John got there first. It wasn’t lust, or comfort it was John’s way of pushing her to actually start grieving because up until then she was stuck. The “I’m not grieving alone” isnt just that he and Claire are grieving in separate rooms, it’s that he is actively moving through the stages of grief and she is stuck in denial.
@@joborison9764well said then, from denial to acceptance, hell lots of anger and negative emotion Claire was upholding. appreciate ur explanation, which definitely help me to be more empathy in understanding people in grief. tqvm❤❤❤
This season is so wonderful, The Love between Claire and Jamie is so strong and so convincing much like Season 1. These two actors capture the true essence of love so remarkably beautiful.
И в чем эта суть , в пьяных оргиях с лордом ? Они надругались над памятью Джейми ! И это нелепое объяснение " мы трахали тебя " И он еще не о чем не жалеет ,этот похотливой извращенец! Мало Джейми ему надавал! Актерам 👏,а повествование испортило образ Клер разрушив его 👎👎👎😢
All the arguments that they had before, I always thought Claire is in the right side , not this time . I don’t see any sense in what she did , and even more nonsense is that Jamie forgives her and immediately makes love with her after .
Claires always been a hypocrite in my mind. Always sitting on her high horse, judging things she doesnt understand, while also having the biggest fucking mouth on the planet. This is no different.
I will never forgive Diana for this unnecessary, totally OOC behavior. Tbh, she seems to delight in hurting them. Almost like she resents that Jamie and Claire chose each other from the beginning.
@@harsharnsandher1363 Oh, I literally threw my book away from me when all this happened. Especially that Claire went back for seconds of a sort before Jamie came back. Don't get me started how she wrote the Geneva mess.... The writers definitely cleaned it up.
@@L.U.-og5nd You’re absolutely right about the author’s take on the relationship between Claire and Jaime, and a few others. Critics of her books have disliked her constant using themes of rape, among a few others complaints. Why did she have to have Jamie, Claire and Brianna all have to go through the trauma of it. Go Tell the Bees, didn’t far any better. There is Claire and Jenny having an enjoyable time buying items together, and Claire spying the man she who resembles the man who raped her when she was abducted, tortured and tied up. There was no need to bring this character back, so that Claire start having panic attacks all over again. Worse still on their way back to the ridge, Jenny makes Claire tell her what’s up, she tells her. Jenny tells her she has to tell Jaime, Claire says there’s no need she’ll be over it soon. Jenny then starts telling that her daughter Maggie was raped by her husband’ brother, and pregnant , and what ensued from it. I personally cannot see any reason why the author had a need add this to book. There was no reason as far as I can see for dredging Claire’s assault back, the man should have died with the rest of the gang. Nor was there any reason for the Maggie bit. The all happens near the first few chapters, with Jamie going off with a rifle to shoot the man, so Claire can rest her mind that he is not about. To be honest, though I love the books, I personally have issues with some of the storylines. I didn’t like Loaghaire being brought back in the 3rd book, Voyager, the whole marriage was pointless. Fergus could have met her without all that, he was after all at Lallybroch growing up and the two just have met. Geneva story as you point out is also annoying, it’s there just in a way to bring William into the story. The timeframes in the books are always all over the place, there is too much jumping about, to episodic,
Not only one of the best scenes from this episode, but of the entire TV series. This episode is one of the top of the entire series. This is almost the same as what was in the books. Terrific job. Classic Jamie Fraser - the stubborness and temper come thru in his love as well, Claire knows that all too well. I didn't like the make-up love scene on the table though, even with clothes on (I think to 108, 111 and 309 as classic examples of clothed love scenes that are still perfect), Sam and Caitriona usually give more emotion to these scenes than what came thru here. It also didn't help that their scene got interrupted by LJG - but maybe that is the entire point - he is the distraction in both of their minds at the time, how appropriate for them to be cutting to him in the middle of their sexy times.
No he doesn’t he had sex with three other women when she went back to the future where he made her go by the way that woman 👩 n the cave and if stoped their then ok but then Williams mother and then he married a women who tried to have Claire burned as a witch no he has no right to be angry no right at all that’s what wrong men think women belong to them they own them they can do whatever the hell they want but women can’t do the same he not made at cause he knows he can’t judge her for doing the same only difference is Claire had sex once with her first husband Frank and once with Jamie best friend and a man who loved as much as Claire while Jamie did one of his servants a woman he didn’t like and a women who tried to kill his wife 3 to Claire 2 no I think forgiveness is he ask of Claire not her to him
Truly in the book we all thought Jamie was dead. We were actually more upset at ljg. Bc he used such language. It honestly should’ve been Claire to tell him. And while I understand in the circonstances why ljg did; bc he never knew about jack randell, that phrasing really f’d jamie up. I am glad that some people seem to understand that Jamie’s anger was not irrational. But she really was distraught. Also they thought they were husband and wife. It’s not like if they didn’t just get married, they would have sex. It was because they were married and were trying to go by the letter of the law. Technically if never consummated, the union could be called into question. If you watch a lot period pieces, you get it. In fact, in the marriage with Jamie, that was the exact reason why she had sex with Jamie. It wasn’t bc she wanted to, per se, it was bc they had to make sure legal there were no loop holes. The series already did it once. It is his best friend, who wants to sex him, and honestly he tried never to think about that. He’s really uncomfortable with the idea that one, ljg got a taste of him (through Claire), and that his friend had sex with the love of his life. He is not even really mad at Claire for having sex with another man. Both of them have been grapped, and had to have sex with other people, during the marriage. For Jamie, it’s like anyone but her. Anyone but him. I always was irritated with ljg bc he used such language to describe the sex. I think that really sex Jamie off.
@@monicad99It wasn't after 2 days. It just look like fast because the show didn't have the luxury of time but Claire and John marriage lasted 2 months. It was due to deep grief/drunkenness and Claire being suicidal.
Ich denke das jeder Mensch anders trauert . Claire hatte schon einmal Jamie verloren , Culloden . Nun ertrank er , und sie war wieder allein . Im Buch dauert es länger , bis sie mit Lord John im Bett landet . Und ja , sie schlägt auf John ein , meint damit aber Jamie . Vorher hatte sie mehrmals versucht sich das leben zu nehmen . Und John sieht in ihr eine Verbindung zu Jamie . Und das ist es auch , wie sich herausstellt . Jeder hat es mit Jamie getrieben . Und das ist es , was Jamie wütend auf John macht und ihn zusammen schlagen läßt . John bestätigt das ja auch : wir haben es mit dir getrieben , und es täte ihm nicht leid . Da Jamie aber Claire über alles liebt , versteht er es und vergibt ihr . Jamie ist sehr eifersüchtig was Claire betrifft . Wer die Bücher gelesen hat , weiß , das es viele Hinweise darauf gibt . Ansonsten finde ich , das die Darstellung emotional war . Sam und Cait waren perfekt .
Актёры согласна 👏👏, а содержание рушит образ Клер ! Эта пьяная оргия , надругательство над памятью Джейми ! И это объяснение " мы трахались с тобой" 👎👎👎
"il a stoppé mon hémorragie en plaquant sa peine contre la mienne" dit Claire ... oui, " il a soigné mes plaies, avec son amitié" dit Jamie... John est donc comme maitre Raymond finalement, il a une part de magie en lui, lui aussi, avec son amour et sa bienveillance désintéressée... 🥰
So Jamie’s not supposed to have any feelings about what happened??? That slapping always makes me mad how her and Brianna!! In the books Jamie’s always good! My opinion! And she didn’t have to jump in bed with LjG
@@swervo6660some things should remain sacred. Claire cheapened that. No words or explanations can give that back to Jamie. Claire has no morals to keep this special relationship for Jamie alone.
Seems John and Claire weren’t as drunk as they led on. They got it done. Shame neither of them gave any thought to honoring the memory of the person they loved that died tragically.
I swear, the only way I can swallow this series (both the series and the books) is if I think of Jamie as a bisexual man who is fighting incredibly hard to repress his bisexuality due to the trauma he went through and that in order to stop all this violence and nonsensical stuff he is going to have to face that and come to terms with it (because a person can love two people at the same time, just like Claire did, too, with him and Frank). Because, otherwise, if I don't see it like this? I probably will never be able to stand Jamie as a character and all the BS he does when it comes to John, a character who has done nothing more in this series than love him, selflessly. So yeah, this is either going in the direction of brilliant story-telling, if we do head in that direction (and one can hope, because the books keep on heavily implying this), or absolutely disaster, for my views of Jamie as a character, if we don't.
Well they get something right. Suddenly he’s the bad guy even though she was the one that was technically wrong. And no matter what he says she’s concocting something out of his words to make him even more wrong and to make her the aggrieved party here. Yep that’s how it goes in real life.
Nope. Jamie is in the wrong. Claire and John had proof of his death and the sex was out of grief and desperation. She was suicidal and John brought her out of it. Neither of them did anything wrong. Jamie was an a** to Claire, ignoring what she went through and a brute to John. If not for these two people in his life Jamie would have been dead a long time ago. You also seem to conveniently forget that Jamie had sex all night with 16 yo Geneva who told him to stop but he ignored her, got her pregnant, slept with Mary McNabb when he knew that Claire was still alive and married the woman who tried to kill Claire. Jamie isn't the man many women in this fandom placed him on. He's most flawed but is the luckiest 17th century male to have a 20th Century woman of Claire caliber fall in love with and who prolonged his life over and over again.
u know what, I've been watching this clips more than 20 times for the passed 2 weeks, in the hope of finding a slightest consodation from Claire's explanation. Frankly, i still feel my heart is being cut n squeeze deeply. I hv to say i would do far more worst than Jamie did. Sorry Claire, i just can't help myself in blaming u since u hv such an strong characters in faith, integrity etc etc.....i think I am too obsessed with Claire, nor i can accept anybody come in between you n Jamie, regardless whatsoever consciously or unconsciously. i think im sick...undeniably😢😢😢
Brilliant scene! kudos to the actors. I think Clarie is kind of a hypocrite in this scene. She flies off the handle when she finds out that Jamie married Laoghaire and Claires also flies off the handle when Malva falsely accuses Jamie of fathering her child. Claire felt jealousy, betrayal and rage and yet when Jamie flies off the handle because she slept with John just mere weeks after he was presumed dead somehow Jamie is in the wrong for being angry and jealous. Really Claire? Nothing about this twist makes any sense. Not a fan of this storyline it cheapens Jamie and Claire's relationship.
Claire is OFTEN the hypocrite! Tks for noticing! Telling HIMSELF that he is NOT the aggrieved Party, here is TOTALLY wrong! He IS !! Was Claire the aggrieved Party when she found out Jaime married L ? She packed n was walking out, n ONLY stayed because L. SHOT HIM ! She always says/acts " What's Good for the Goose, is Good for the Gander ", but doesn't Practise what she Preaches!!
Poor LJG ! All he had to do was just be his Proper, British, Stoic SELF, n GENTILELY explain to Jamie what happened...BUT NO! He used Claire's vulgar modern Curse Words n delivered them forcefully n violently like Jamie would! ...HOW IRONIC!
@@sulleys1929 I agree she is always high handed. Though she didn’t lose it with him over Malva in the book, she knew instinctively that Malva was lying, slapped the girl so hard and then bolted out of the house because she was so angry felt like killing her for her deceit. Claire did feel guilty later for just leaving Jaime to tackle the whole situation, as it did make it look like she had believed Malva. When Jamie found her later, she did explain this to him, that she knew he was totally innocent.
However, i started to regret myself or more preciously, getting suspicious on the storyline's sensibility and credibility. These feeling of being a dump fool all started from watching season 7 episode 11, when Claire sleep with LjG. I was like jaw dropping and my heart was crunching and screaming, hysterically specifically on 2 scenes, which caught me in nightmare and cold sweating for a few weeks. Those 2 scenes had really make me stopped reading the story book instantly. I don't even want to know where it's either. I think i got the phobia of it, not to exaggerate. Scene 1 How, on earth, my dearest Claire will have sex with the bloody Englishman LJG who's her beloved husband's best friend in just a unreasonably short time,!!!!! It was like the whole storyline becomes soap opera instantly, cheap and tasteless. The whole character of Claire for the past 10 yrs has been collapsed, horribly twisted as needed, especially at such tragical moment. Where is the integrity and faith that Jamie treasure the most?? What's puzzled me is that a moment before, Claire was still aware enough to yell at LJG that Jamie was her, nobody can steal him from her, immediately after, both were shoving into a so called violent, awkward love making night like they had decided not to mourn Jamie alone!!! My eyes were popping out and totally speechless and giggled in disgraced. Scene 2 The next morning's intimacy conversation btw Claire and LJG. The whole thing really make me feel cheated and disgraceful if i choose to believe that, they were just making love out of over grief or so called mourning Jamie's death.A part from Claire has curiosity about LJG's sexual history and LJG's skittish apology, the deer story appeared the most hilarious comfort that LJG wishes Claire to believe and get enlighten from it. (Actually, my eyes was in tears and red, my emotions was outraged and anguished with disappointment. I felt completely spend and despaired. What a waste!!! What a fxxking waste!!! (Not to mention in the story book, Claire and LJG admire each other naked body, and Claire even praised LJG warrior's body; and Claire gave LJG a good hand jxb when LJG proudly presented his body to her in month later) What turned out amused to me the most was many viewers blamed Jamie for being too violent on LJG after being told when he returned. I started questioning myself whether am i too naive to acknowledge what the true love is ???Being righteous upon ppl telling you they have carnal knowledge about your wife??? Being thankful for ur best friend for saving ur wife by making love to her??? Or being forgiven for what Claire said, LJG has more courage and gave something for her to hit(my god!! really Claire) or else she will remain too numb, and LJG was just timely to perform a heavenly triage she desperately needed??? Honestly, im more sympathy for Jamie, for these unnecessary mess he has to dealt for the rest of his life. For me, i just quit. Enough is enough.
Yeah it's ridiculous how many people are saying they understand it. As a gay fan of the show trust me there is no way in a trillion years this would ever happen unless the character was bisexual at least. Gay people don't sleep with women when grieving. What nonsense.
@@generaliroh8879yeah, I’m not gay but I care very much about their stories and love being love. It doesn’t make sense to me either that they would’ve slept together just because they love and mourned the same guy. Especially when Claire was downright homophobic to John in s4 when she nursed him back to health. And compared the whole Frank & Jamie situation to John’s struggle of having to marry a woman he can’t love because he has unrequited feelings for Jamie.
Gabaldon non doveva scrivere la storia in questo modo, ma chi ha riscritto per la serie l'episodio, ha stravolto molto rispetto al libro, gli attori bravissimi come sempre è l'accaduto che non doveva essere scritto vista tutta la storia di Claire e Jamie
The past couple of episodes, everyone has been gloriously out of character. It's like the author didn't know how to create character growth, so had them all go through a bunch of things they'd been through several times before, but without learning anything, so it all ends up a massive unfortunate cul-de-sac. The actors are so good they almost manage to sell it, but it only works if you forget the previous six and a half seasons. That the show must necessarily rush things doesn't help. This should be a huge turning point in their relationship - instead it's a blip, like when she slept with King Louis, or he married Leghair. (I didn't buy either of those either, for the record.) And let's be honest - did these two really need MORE tension and drama in their lives? Let alone such obviously manufactured drama? It's like slapping a low-grade plastic jack-o-lantern bucket on top of a professionally crafted blue and white wedding cake - it's cheap, unnecessary, out of place, and utterly inexplicable. But the actors ARE awesome, and they almost manage to rise above it, bless them.
@@EmmaOnATangent If you’re criticising the television episodes, it’s the scriptwriter and the producers of the series that are at fault for anything you haven’t liked, not the author or the book. The series has never completely followed the books, each series has varied from what’s in the books. They have either added bits not in the books, left events or characters from the books, changed some of the storylines. They have have even kept characters still alive when they died! Murtagh died at Callodon in the third book.
This is the side of Jamie I really hate. Yes he is justified in his anger but he also has to be a misogynist jerk when he’s mad at Claire. And no Claire isn’t perfect with how she deals with him either but Claire is way less spiteful.
Her excuses are ridiculous, She got drunk and acted stupid and grieved him for what a week! Claire has always looked out for Claire when she went Back to the future she did not have to go back to Frank she could have raised her daughter on her own but she had to have a man in her life looking out for her . She married Jamie to save herself. It is a pattern with her, Jamie's right she thinks with her body and not her brain
She married John not to protect herself but the rest of the family. She didn't want to go back to Frank. Jamie forced her to. She told Frank the truth and offered him a divorce from the moment she went back. She and John were grieving with her on the verge of killing herself. Grief sex is not unusual and they were married. Every man she slept with were her husbands. Mid 40s Jamie slept with a 16 yo, got her pregnant, had sex with his house maid and married the woman who tried to kill Claire. She was also forced to marry Jamie and tried to go back to her time days after the wedding. The reason Jamie said that she thinks with her body is because she's a surgeon who needs to be tactile while dealing with patients through surgery and treatments. So no, her explanation was perfectly legit but Jamie is an ass and is excused by the predominate female fandom.
I'm not defending Claire but clearly you're not watching well. It was Lord John Gray who asked her for marriage and went to her while she was very drunk and grieving. She didn't go to Frank after going back to her time, it was Frank who found her. She was in the hospital and Frank wanted her back and claimed Jaime's child as his. The marriage with Jamie is also not her doing but because of Dougal forcing her to marry Jamie. You have a selective memory for hating Claire. I don't think she's perfect and she's done many dumb decisions but the patterns you're saying are not mainly Claire's fault.
@@Richie-rs3wp "hating Claire" my goodness she's a character in a series ! That's a ridiculous statement. Try to remember people are giving just their opinions on fictional characters, not a real life person ! I hate knowone real or unreal .
I need to say that I'm not enjoying this last chapters....I don't know if the writer is trying to finish her book fast or the producers are just willing to finish this series. Something is missing, a lot.
There's 10 books at the end of the series. Season 7 runs books 6-8 and Season 8 is book 9. They had to rush the plot lines quickly before they were unsure about the renewal. We weren't exactly even going to be able to see the end. Sam and Caitríona fought for it, for us.
@@anasaboiamccaughey2058 You're welcome. I know that not everyone follows up with the show. I'm a super Sassenach who follows socials and associated websites.
I agree ..It was like he was getting revenge or marking his territory ...especially since they were on LJG dinner table!!! I heard the books in this part was much better...
There was no need at all for this scene. The book handled it far better. Also the scene between John and Claire when drunk and grieving is very different. In the book John comes into Claire’s bedroom and says he doesn’t feel like drinking alone. Next sentence in book is the two of them waking up naked in bed in the morning. They do lighthearted pull the bed cover down and look at each other’s body, John tells her she’s beautiful, she compliments his. They both resolve that what happened during the night would never happen again. Their relationship does go through a change, they have developed a warmth towards each other that wasn’t there before. The whole dynamic in the relationship between Jamie and John also changes. A certain coolness enters between them.
국내번역이 잘 못됐는지 아니면 원래 책의 내용이 그런건지 이 에피소드는 3류 prono 보다 못합니다 시리즈 전반적으로 흐르는 jamie and claire 의 성격이나 행동과도 전혀 부합도 안되고 그리고 침대에서 일어나는 john 과 claire 정말로 끔찍 그 자체였습니다
Diana gabaldon 의 그 독특하고 정신이상적인 가치관이면 john 은 jamie 의 딸인 brianna 와 동침을 할수도 william 은 claire 와 드라마에서 동침을 심지어 퍼거슨도 클레어와 시즌1 에 나왔던 듀갈도 역겨웠는데 다이아나 개벌든의 정신이상적인 상태라면 충분히 그럴수도 있다는 생각이 드네요 이 존과클레어의 동침이라는 이 신은 그들의 능력으로는 해결할 방법이 없네요
시즌7 11화 에 나오는 john 과 claire 의 동침신은 outlander 전체의 시리즈를 엉망으로 만들어 버렸습니다 스코틀랜드에서 미국으로 존의 조카를 수술하러 온다는것도 이해가 안되고(17세기) 무슨 옆동네로 가는것도 아니고 몇달이 걸릴텐데 또한 드라마상 그 당시 미국은 제이미나 클레어는 영국에게는 반군의 위험한 인물인데 이안은 폐결핵으로 죽어가는데 그리고 시리즈 전체의 캐릭터를 보면은 jamie claire john은 정의롭고 john 도 게이라고는 하지만 반듯하게 그려졌는데 jamie 도 클레어가 루이 국왕과 잤다고 얘기 했을때도 프레이저 리지에서 납치를 당해서 집단으로 강간을 당했을때도 그 전에 무수한 폭력 강간 불합리한 일을 서로서로 헤쳐서 나왔는데 뜬금없이 이 세명의 주인공(캐릭터)들을 존은 친구의 아내를 클레어는 남편의 친구를 클레어를 자기 목숨보다 아끼는 제이미를 이 episode 에서는 진흙탕으로 만들어습니다 이 시리즈는 john 과 claire 의 섹스신으로 인해 3류 개막장 porno로 만들어서 더 이상의 기대는 하지를 않는게 맞고 중간에 감독이 바뀌었는지 전개도 매끄럽지 않습니다 내가 제일로 좋아했단 드리마를 prono로 만들어버린 감독에게 원작자인 다이아나 개벌든에게 다시한번 경악을 금치 못합니다
Jamie e Claire estão lindos como nunca 💞Como não amar essa série? Só não gostei da cena desse reencontro. Muito diferente do livro. Sexo frio sem amor ❤️
If you notice ever since they brought on that intimacy coordinator The chemistry between them has all but flattened. Just compare their chemistry before season 6, Then after season 6.
Jamie knows that John is in love with him. And John knows that Jamie does not think of John in that way. Jamie being straight and all and completely in love with Claire. Also, Jamie has a been a victim of a violent rape by a man but John is unaware of that. So, the beating that Jamie laid down on John is mostly about John insinuating that he was thinking of being with Jamie when he was with Claire. It was a PTSD fueled response.
@@thekrayonkidsbookadventures NO! LJG has no knowledge of the BJR rape of Jamie. There was a slight reference in one of the LJG books prior to 'The Scottish Prisoner'. LJG said something like, "I could make you scream .... meaning having sex with him." Jamie did NOT takes this well at all!!! LJG realized something had happened to Jaime but no details. They had a major falling out over it for a number of years. If you read 'The Scottish Prisoner', the beginning of the book Jamie is very hostile to LJG. by the end they have become friends again.
Sam cait díganme por fanor si hacen el último episodio los dos si no yo me retiro y no veomás. No vi hasta acá para no ver que terminan juntos co o toda pareja de una cerie pero Diana esta tan loca con briana que quiere ter I ar co o pareja con briana y sam así que yo no veo mas..
Esam tubo por ahí hijos es el que hizo todas las cagadas y siempre culpando a cler no me gusta esa forma que se hace el santo y a sido de lo peor lejos de casa.
@@pbjer2q-hj3yr haha i guess you havent fangirled the show enough if you do not know they dated for about 2 years lol and i know it isnt right but i hated sam for it 😂
She left all her great 20th century life and a successful medical career to be with Jamie, a man who has nothing to offer her but love. You still think she cares more about others than him???
This is so dumb like i cannot fathom how someone would think of sleeping with another man when their husband dies presumably like wouldn't you want nothing to do with other men. When you're grieving. At least jamie had years or months before he was forced to sleep with williams mom and that other woman idk about her cuz i skipped some seasons. But even jamie is at fault. They both boasting about their love for each other then they quickly go sleep with someone else
You guys put too much importance on sex. Sex is just another form of self expression. She was grieving and was numb. She wanted to feel something and turned to someone who felt her pain on some level.
@@olavihekandjo2928 and yet Claire wouldn't even let Frank (her husband) touch her when she was grieving losing Jamie the first time. That is why this makes no sense it is not consistent with the character of Claire. But I suppose Diana needed some conflict and also needed shock value even at the cost of her own characters and the show followed suit with Diana's storyline.
@@sulleys1929 For Frank, there was 3 big reasons, 1) They were already had sort falling out due being separated so long to the war, remember their trip to Scotland was them "reconnecting" post WWII. 2) Claire and Jamie even before this and after returning to Frank had shared years of time together as well as a loss of a child. And 3) She could never get fully over that Frank being sort of a dead ringer for Black Jack Randall.
Gotta tell ya folks - I’m 72 and this episode gobsmacked me. I’ve seen a lot of reactions to death and I’ve witnessed a similar circumstance between the best of friends after one of them passed. The fear of loneliness and the fear of not being touched ever again - the exquisite pain of loss - makes people vulnerable. The people I’m speaking of also suffered more from guilt and shame. It had its own price. The rest of us tried to help both - but, it didn’t end well. I was married almost half a century. I felt like Claire when she was sitting on the floor. “How should I do it?” It’s been almost 6 yrs. since my guy passed and it took me almost 2 yrs. to stop that “Stinkn’ Thinking”. I just met a lady who was in her 60s and had just lost her husband. ( Under a year ) He was her only boyfriend and they too had been married forever. We were at a cocktail gathering in the neighborhood and somehow she made her way to me. She wept. Told me her story. Asked me if I ever felt like checking out. And, the best thing I could do is be honest with her and listen. I hoped I helped.
Lord, may you have no more losses in your lifetime 🙏
That is such a relatable response. Grief is a powerful emotion and it’s difficult for anyone to know how they will respond.
@@olivemcintosh6601 That kind of grief -- it's like you will reach out to anyone who can give you solace.
Thank you Ignatie. I appreciate your prayer. ❤️
So understand what you when through!!!
I was clinging on to this man’s lips and eyes in these scenes. Believing every emotion he converted through his expressions and body language. Sam’s talented beyond words. What a master class in acting.
Agree! Sam has been phenomenal as Jamie. He never misses!
His eyes tell everyone everything they need to know.
I agree 100 percent regarding Sam /Jamie....He has made us feel as though he were him.... However ....Sam is not that way in all movies... Jamie is HIS lifetime masterpiece.
Well said. He is Oscar worthy if there were Oscars for television. He is just soooo emotional in every scene that calls for it, with the eyes tearing up and the mouth quiver. I just can't imagine another actor doing this character justice. Gabaldon has to be so very pleased with their choice for Jamie.
I couldn't agree more! This eyes alone speaks! What an excellent actor! 🥹
So good, so good. "That bloody Englishman". Jamie both loves John for loving him and hates him for loving him. Claire gets it. And Jamie gets Claire too.. knows she is a kinetic person, she needed to feel and express her grief physically somehow. And Jamie has to (reluctantly) realise that John was there for her too. The acting, wow! Very much how I pictured that conversation in the book (except in a garden, of course).
Hahaha, at various points Jamie calls both John and Frank "that bloody Englishman" because he both loves and hates them both for raising his kids.
@@MeyaRoseGirl That's such a good point! AND now they have BOTH slept with Claire while they raised HIS KIDS! I'd be so pissed if I were Jamie. I love John still and was so angry when I first saw that Claire and he had slept together too, but come on! This is getting ridiculous! Jamie's entanglements with Englishmen, oooiiih. Smh😅🤭
I love watching thrse 2 they are so belivable! I love that feeling of being so lost in his story the pressure of my day is gone somewhere beyond me!I love Outlander !Thank ypu,Starz for bringing this epic story to life!
The acting and emotions portrayed this season are exemplary!
Master class in acting by Caitriona. Phenomenal actress. Can't wait to see what she does next. 👋👋👋👋👋
Yeah, she is in a class all by herself. I have said that both her and Sam deserve Oscars if there were such a thing for television. Somehow, Emmys just don't do them justice.
The depth of Diana Gabaldons texts is pure l❤ve. And where else do you hear a woman and a man talk to each other like this?❤❤❤❤❤
Love how true to the book this is
This was a very emotional moment for both of them. Both were relieved that they were able to express their feelings. Their love for each other is very intense and admirable. They are true sole mates.
The raw emotion between Jamie and Claire in this episode really struck me! These two have been through so much during all the years we have watched Outlander and I have been with them all the way! I can see both sides of their situation- it’s really unique but in the end we know they will forgive each other because their love is boundless! We just love Jamie and Claire together and now Jamie has to apologize to Lord John and forgive him too!
🤍💙🙏🏻
Yes ...I agree....I wish LJ would have explained a little more ....I am sure J would have still mad ..but I think he could have made J understand .
@ I totally agree!
After finally hearing Claire's explanation, Jamie TRULY listened, and acknowledged JLG's role in his life, as a Healing Presence. Right there, he FORGAVE John [ and C ] for Sleeping w his wife, but it will take years to forgive the MAJOR LINE that John crossed upon shouting "We were both f-ing YOU". PTSD is POWERFUL, all encompassing and life altering !!
Jamie’s heavy on the “you are *mine* “ in this scene
I understand Jamies perspective here but that was really a low blow. To say she thinks with her body is just like a punch in the stomach. I felt that😂What i love about Claires character is shes relatable. I have never watched a series where ive felt that until Outlander.
I just love them together❤️
John wasn’t thinking with his. LOL
I agree ..I am glad C slapped him ...with J she does think with her body and her heart and soul with every fiber of her being ...just because the others might not have with J shows that C is with him 100 percent ....it was an insult to say that to her ...He probably said that because he thought that is how she was with LJG but he just ASSUMED! so good slap on C's part .
Maybe this is the book reader in me but the “think with her body” line isn’t meant in anyway to be negative, nor is it a new idea between them. He tells her right from book one whatever she was thinking was plain on her face, she IS a very physical person. It’s why she is a surgeon, why they constantly use touch to center themselves and why she needed to find a physical outlet to be able to grieve. It’s also why he is quick to forgive her for it even if he can’t forgive John, who is NOT a person who thinks with his body. And John crossed a line that goes far beyond sleeping with a woman who he believed to be his lawful wife, but that is a different issue.
The way these two look at each other with so much love, after everything they’ve been through together
Can someone explain why Jamie has yet to be told WHY Lord John married Claire, to save her from arrest, imprisonment, and possible hanging as a spy?!
exactly!! Why didn't ANYONE tell him this in the episode??
Jaime Fraser is a violent and jealous man who runs by his own moral code. It comes out a lot more in the books.
In their eyes, Jaime's dead and Claire has no one else but Jaime. John is like OMG, WTH did we do?!
All Jaime's thinking about is getting back to her and not understanding what happened.
He's curious, furious, and violently jealous.
Jaime has to have vengeance for his lost honor, his wife sleeping with his BFF of 20y, and then reclaiming Claire's honor.
He wants his answers in jealousy so hence the details.
@@kirstynweinbergYour 'Spaining things VERY Well ! Tks !
❤LOVED: "He's Curious, He's Furious " and not to be trifled with!!!😂❤
@@kirstynweinberg still confused why no one in this episode explain to Jamie that they were married and why
Great acting Jamie, you deserve an Oscar for your acting better in time great. Lynne wish I could see the show in person but I live in New York. Great!!!!
Although im not 100% understand and accept with Claire explanation, especially making love with John not in sad but in violence!(wasn't she in grief), but both willing to reason out their heart knots with open conversation, which shows they love each other so much and nothing can come in between or break them apart, well said Jamie.
Anger and bargaining are absolutely parts of grief. There is a reason this happens when it does, not in the immediate aftermath, when she is stuck in denial, but as she is pushed out of that and is forced by John’s grief to address the reality of hers. When she reached anger it was going to be so huge she was either going to tear the house down or bloody someone, and John got there first. It wasn’t lust, or comfort it was John’s way of pushing her to actually start grieving because up until then she was stuck. The “I’m not grieving alone” isnt just that he and Claire are grieving in separate rooms, it’s that he is actively moving through the stages of grief and she is stuck in denial.
@@joborison9764well said then, from denial to acceptance, hell lots of anger and negative emotion Claire was upholding. appreciate ur explanation, which definitely help me to be more empathy in understanding people in grief. tqvm❤❤❤
This season is so wonderful, The Love between Claire and Jamie is so strong and so convincing much like Season 1. These two actors capture the true essence of love so remarkably beautiful.
И в чем эта суть , в пьяных оргиях с лордом ? Они надругались над памятью Джейми ! И это нелепое объяснение " мы трахали тебя " И он еще не о чем не жалеет ,этот похотливой извращенец! Мало Джейми ему надавал! Актерам 👏,а повествование испортило образ Клер разрушив его 👎👎👎😢
Sam and Caitriona was brilliant as always 👏 👌 ❤️
All the arguments that they had before, I always thought Claire is in the right side , not this time . I don’t see any sense in what she did , and even more nonsense is that Jamie forgives her and immediately makes love with her after .
Claires always been a hypocrite in my mind. Always sitting on her high horse, judging things she doesnt understand, while also having the biggest fucking mouth on the planet. This is no different.
I will never forgive Diana for this unnecessary, totally OOC behavior. Tbh, she seems to delight in hurting them. Almost like she resents that Jamie and Claire chose each other from the beginning.
What you see in this episode is a shortened version of what happened in the book when Jamie confronted her in the gardens collecting herbs.
@@harsharnsandher1363 Oh, I literally threw my book away from me when all this happened. Especially that Claire went back for seconds of a sort before Jamie came back. Don't get me started how she wrote the Geneva mess.... The writers definitely cleaned it up.
@@L.U.-og5nd
You’re absolutely right about the author’s take on the relationship between Claire and Jaime, and a few others. Critics of her books have disliked her constant using themes of rape, among a few others complaints. Why did she have to have Jamie, Claire and Brianna all have to go through the trauma of it.
Go Tell the Bees, didn’t far any better. There is Claire and Jenny having an enjoyable time buying items together, and Claire spying the man she who resembles the man who raped her when she was abducted, tortured and tied up. There was no need to bring this character back, so that Claire start having panic attacks all over again. Worse still on their way back to the ridge, Jenny makes Claire tell her what’s up, she tells her. Jenny tells her she has to tell Jaime, Claire says there’s no need she’ll be over it soon. Jenny then starts telling that her daughter Maggie was raped by her husband’ brother, and pregnant , and what ensued from it. I personally cannot see any reason why the author had a need add this to book. There was no reason as far as I can see for dredging Claire’s assault back, the man should have died with the rest of the gang. Nor was there any reason for the Maggie bit. The all happens near the first few chapters, with Jamie going off with a rifle to shoot the man, so Claire can rest her mind that he is not about.
To be honest, though I love the books, I personally have issues with some of the storylines. I didn’t like Loaghaire being brought back in the 3rd book, Voyager, the whole marriage was pointless. Fergus could have met her without all that, he was after all at Lallybroch growing up and the two just have met. Geneva story as you point out is also annoying, it’s there just in a way to bring William into the story.
The timeframes in the books are always all over the place, there is too much jumping about, to episodic,
Not only one of the best scenes from this episode, but of the entire TV series. This episode is one of the top of the entire series. This is almost the same as what was in the books. Terrific job. Classic Jamie Fraser - the stubborness and temper come thru in his love as well, Claire knows that all too well. I didn't like the make-up love scene on the table though, even with clothes on (I think to 108, 111 and 309 as classic examples of clothed love scenes that are still perfect), Sam and Caitriona usually give more emotion to these scenes than what came thru here. It also didn't help that their scene got interrupted by LJG - but maybe that is the entire point - he is the distraction in both of their minds at the time, how appropriate for them to be cutting to him in the middle of their sexy times.
This was superb acting❤💯👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾❤️🌟
Jaime had every right to be mad at Claire & LJG. But he loves Claire too much that even her sleeping with his best friend didn't make him leave her.
They thought he was dead
@@daesgatling1345that doesn’t excuse sleeping with your spouse’s best friend and y’all know that’s not ok period
No he doesn’t he had sex with three other women when she went back to the future where he made her go by the way that woman 👩 n the cave and if stoped their then ok but then Williams mother and then he married a women who tried to have Claire burned as a witch no he has no right to be angry no right at all that’s what wrong men think women belong to them they own them they can do whatever the hell they want but women can’t do the same he not made at cause he knows he can’t judge her for doing the same only difference is Claire had sex once with her first husband Frank and once with Jamie best friend and a man who loved as much as Claire while Jamie did one of his servants a woman he didn’t like and a women who tried to kill his wife 3 to Claire 2 no I think forgiveness is he ask of Claire not her to him
No, he was dead.
Truly in the book we all thought Jamie was dead. We were actually more upset at ljg. Bc he used such language. It honestly should’ve been Claire to tell him. And while I understand in the circonstances why ljg did; bc he never knew about jack randell, that phrasing really f’d jamie up. I am glad that some people seem to understand that Jamie’s anger was not irrational. But she really was distraught. Also they thought they were husband and wife. It’s not like if they didn’t just get married, they would have sex. It was because they were married and were trying to go by the letter of the law. Technically if never consummated, the union could be called into question. If you watch a lot period pieces, you get it. In fact, in the marriage with Jamie, that was the exact reason why she had sex with Jamie. It wasn’t bc she wanted to, per se, it was bc they had to make sure legal there were no loop holes. The series already did it once. It is his best friend, who wants to sex him, and honestly he tried never to think about that. He’s really uncomfortable with the idea that one, ljg got a taste of him (through Claire), and that his friend had sex with the love of his life. He is not even really mad at Claire for having sex with another man. Both of them have been grapped, and had to have sex with other people, during the marriage. For Jamie, it’s like anyone but her. Anyone but him. I always was irritated with ljg bc he used such language to describe the sex. I think that really sex Jamie off.
Jamie married Learie when they were appart.
JAMIE no right to blame her for what she did
Neither she nor John have done anything wrong. Jamie was dead and they were deeply grieving.
Jamie didn’t punch John until John said he was basically just using Claire to fantasize about having sex with Jamie.
yeah, after a loooooooooong f-ing time. not two days in.
@@monicad99It wasn't after 2 days. It just look like fast because the show didn't have the luxury of time but Claire and John marriage lasted 2 months. It was due to deep grief/drunkenness and Claire being suicidal.
CAN WE JUST GIVE CAITRIONA HER GOLDEN GLOBE? Kthxbye ;)
Ich denke das jeder Mensch anders trauert . Claire hatte schon einmal Jamie verloren , Culloden .
Nun ertrank er , und sie war wieder allein . Im Buch dauert es länger , bis sie mit Lord John im Bett landet .
Und ja , sie schlägt auf John ein , meint damit aber Jamie . Vorher hatte sie mehrmals versucht sich das leben zu nehmen .
Und John sieht in ihr eine Verbindung zu Jamie . Und das ist es auch , wie sich herausstellt . Jeder hat es mit Jamie getrieben .
Und das ist es , was Jamie wütend auf John macht und ihn zusammen schlagen läßt . John bestätigt das ja auch : wir haben es mit dir getrieben , und es täte ihm nicht leid .
Da Jamie aber Claire über alles liebt , versteht er es und vergibt ihr .
Jamie ist sehr eifersüchtig was Claire betrifft . Wer die Bücher gelesen hat , weiß , das es viele Hinweise darauf gibt .
Ansonsten finde ich , das die Darstellung emotional war . Sam und Cait waren perfekt .
Актёры согласна 👏👏, а содержание рушит образ Клер ! Эта пьяная оргия , надругательство над памятью Джейми ! И это объяснение " мы трахались с тобой" 👎👎👎
"il a stoppé mon hémorragie en plaquant sa peine contre la mienne" dit Claire ... oui, " il a soigné mes plaies, avec son amitié" dit Jamie... John est donc comme maitre Raymond finalement, il a une part de magie en lui, lui aussi, avec son amour et sa bienveillance désintéressée... 🥰
Well said!
2000-3000 at least... I've always thought that coming back to Jamie during menopause was an excellent choice for these two.
So Jamie’s not supposed to have any feelings about what happened??? That slapping always makes me mad how her and Brianna!! In the books Jamie’s always good! My opinion! And she didn’t have to jump in bed with LjG
Jamie didn"t have to marry Laoghire either. And she slapped him.because he was implying she becomes whoriish when she drinks.
Thank you at least a few viewers have morals
@@swervo6660 She didn't have to sleep with John, but it was either that or off herself.
@@swervo6660some things should remain sacred. Claire cheapened that. No words or explanations can give that back to Jamie. Claire has no morals to keep this special relationship for Jamie alone.
Seems John and Claire weren’t as drunk as they led on. They got it done. Shame neither of them gave any thought to honoring the memory of the person they loved that died tragically.
Claire was so beautiful here
I swear, the only way I can swallow this series (both the series and the books) is if I think of Jamie as a bisexual man who is fighting incredibly hard to repress his bisexuality due to the trauma he went through and that in order to stop all this violence and nonsensical stuff he is going to have to face that and come to terms with it (because a person can love two people at the same time, just like Claire did, too, with him and Frank). Because, otherwise, if I don't see it like this? I probably will never be able to stand Jamie as a character and all the BS he does when it comes to John, a character who has done nothing more in this series than love him, selflessly. So yeah, this is either going in the direction of brilliant story-telling, if we do head in that direction (and one can hope, because the books keep on heavily implying this), or absolutely disaster, for my views of Jamie as a character, if we don't.
Well they get something right. Suddenly he’s the bad guy even though she was the one that was technically wrong. And no matter what he says she’s concocting something out of his words to make him even more wrong and to make her the aggrieved party here. Yep that’s how it goes in real life.
What do you mean he was technically wrong?
@ That’s actually a typo. Should’ve said she. I correct that now.
@@straycat1674 ohhhh, ok. Had me a bit confused there hehe
Nope. Jamie is in the wrong. Claire and John had proof of his death and the sex was out of grief and desperation. She was suicidal and John brought her out of it. Neither of them did anything wrong. Jamie was an a** to Claire, ignoring what she went through and a brute to John. If not for these two people in his life Jamie would have been dead a long time ago. You also seem to conveniently forget that Jamie had sex all night with 16 yo Geneva who told him to stop but he ignored her, got her pregnant, slept with Mary McNabb when he knew that Claire was still alive and married the woman who tried to kill Claire. Jamie isn't the man many women in this fandom placed him on. He's most flawed but is the luckiest 17th century male to have a 20th Century woman of Claire caliber fall in love with and who prolonged his life over and over again.
u know what, I've been watching this clips more than 20 times for the passed 2 weeks, in the hope of finding a slightest consodation from Claire's explanation. Frankly, i still feel my heart is being cut n squeeze deeply. I hv to say i would do far more worst than Jamie did. Sorry Claire, i just can't help myself in blaming u since u hv such an strong characters in faith, integrity etc etc.....i think I am too obsessed with Claire, nor i can accept anybody come in between you n Jamie, regardless whatsoever consciously or unconsciously. i think im sick...undeniably😢😢😢
Brilliant scene! kudos to the actors. I think Clarie is kind of a hypocrite in this scene. She flies off the handle when she finds out that Jamie married Laoghaire and Claires also flies off the handle when Malva falsely accuses Jamie of fathering her child. Claire felt jealousy, betrayal and rage and yet when Jamie flies off the handle because she slept with John just mere weeks after he was presumed dead somehow Jamie is in the wrong for being angry and jealous. Really Claire? Nothing about this twist makes any sense. Not a fan of this storyline it cheapens Jamie and Claire's relationship.
He ate a girl out in a brothel in Paris while she was pregnant with faith... not a hypocrite
I thought the timeline was around 6 months, not weeks. We're talking oceans, not planes.
Claire is OFTEN the hypocrite! Tks for noticing! Telling HIMSELF that he is NOT the aggrieved Party, here is TOTALLY wrong! He IS !! Was Claire the aggrieved Party when she found out Jaime married L ?
She packed n was walking out, n ONLY stayed because L. SHOT HIM ! She always says/acts " What's Good for the Goose, is Good for the Gander ", but doesn't Practise what she Preaches!!
Poor LJG ! All he had to do was just be his Proper, British, Stoic SELF, n GENTILELY explain to Jamie what happened...BUT NO! He used Claire's vulgar modern Curse Words n delivered them forcefully n violently like Jamie would! ...HOW IRONIC!
@@sulleys1929
I agree she is always high handed. Though she didn’t lose it with him over Malva in the book, she knew instinctively that Malva was lying, slapped the girl so hard and then bolted out of the house because she was so angry felt like killing her for her deceit. Claire did feel guilty later for just leaving Jaime to tackle the whole situation, as it did make it look like she had believed Malva. When Jamie found her later, she did explain this to him, that she knew he was totally innocent.
However, i started to regret myself or more preciously, getting suspicious on the storyline's sensibility and credibility. These feeling of being a dump fool all started from watching season 7 episode 11, when Claire sleep with LjG.
I was like jaw dropping and my heart was crunching and screaming, hysterically specifically on 2 scenes, which caught me in nightmare and cold sweating for a few weeks. Those 2 scenes had really make me stopped reading the story book instantly. I don't even want to know where it's either. I think i got the phobia of it, not to exaggerate.
Scene 1
How, on earth, my dearest Claire will have sex with the bloody Englishman LJG who's her beloved husband's best friend in just a unreasonably short time,!!!!!
It was like the whole storyline becomes soap opera instantly, cheap and tasteless. The whole character of Claire for the past 10 yrs has been collapsed, horribly twisted as needed, especially at such tragical moment. Where is the integrity and faith that Jamie treasure the most?? What's puzzled me is that a moment before, Claire was still aware enough to yell at LJG that Jamie was her, nobody can steal him from her, immediately after, both were shoving into a so called violent, awkward love making night like they had decided not to mourn Jamie alone!!! My eyes were popping out and totally speechless and giggled in disgraced.
Scene 2
The next morning's intimacy conversation btw Claire and LJG. The whole thing really make me feel cheated and disgraceful if i choose to believe that, they were just making love out of over grief or so called mourning Jamie's death.A part from Claire has curiosity about LJG's sexual history and LJG's skittish apology, the deer story appeared the most hilarious comfort that LJG wishes Claire to believe and get enlighten from it. (Actually, my eyes was in tears and red, my emotions was outraged and anguished with disappointment. I felt completely spend and despaired. What a waste!!! What a fxxking waste!!! (Not to mention in the story book, Claire and LJG admire each other naked body, and Claire even praised LJG warrior's body; and Claire gave LJG a good hand jxb when LJG proudly presented his body to her in month later)
What turned out amused to me the most was many viewers blamed Jamie for being too violent on LJG after being told when he returned. I started questioning myself whether am i too naive to acknowledge what the true love is ???Being righteous upon ppl telling you they have carnal knowledge about your wife??? Being thankful for ur best friend for saving ur wife by making love to her??? Or being forgiven for what Claire said, LJG has more courage and gave something for her to hit(my god!! really Claire) or else she will remain too numb, and LJG was just timely to perform a heavenly triage she desperately needed???
Honestly, im more sympathy for Jamie, for these unnecessary mess he has to dealt for the rest of his life.
For me, i just quit. Enough is enough.
So the gay dude who is in love with Jamie, had sex with his wife because they both thought he was dead?? Makes a lot of sense! 😅
mix alcohol and complicated feelings and i get how it could happen lol
I’m just laughing at all the people in the comments who are acting like that explanation made any sense claire is hilarious and not in a good way
@@swervo6660 I agree. I don't buy or understand Claire's so-called explanation for a second. Plus, she's so hypocritical ugh.
Yeah it's ridiculous how many people are saying they understand it. As a gay fan of the show trust me there is no way in a trillion years this would ever happen unless the character was bisexual at least. Gay people don't sleep with women when grieving. What nonsense.
@@generaliroh8879yeah, I’m not gay but I care very much about their stories and love being love. It doesn’t make sense to me either that they would’ve slept together just because they love and mourned the same guy. Especially when Claire was downright homophobic to John in s4 when she nursed him back to health. And compared the whole Frank & Jamie situation to John’s struggle of having to marry a woman he can’t love because he has unrequited feelings for Jamie.
Gabaldon non doveva scrivere la storia in questo modo, ma chi ha riscritto per la serie l'episodio, ha stravolto molto rispetto al libro, gli attori bravissimi come sempre è l'accaduto che non doveva essere scritto vista tutta la storia di Claire e Jamie
The past couple of episodes, everyone has been gloriously out of character. It's like the author didn't know how to create character growth, so had them all go through a bunch of things they'd been through several times before, but without learning anything, so it all ends up a massive unfortunate cul-de-sac. The actors are so good they almost manage to sell it, but it only works if you forget the previous six and a half seasons. That the show must necessarily rush things doesn't help. This should be a huge turning point in their relationship - instead it's a blip, like when she slept with King Louis, or he married Leghair. (I didn't buy either of those either, for the record.) And let's be honest - did these two really need MORE tension and drama in their lives? Let alone such obviously manufactured drama? It's like slapping a low-grade plastic jack-o-lantern bucket on top of a professionally crafted blue and white wedding cake - it's cheap, unnecessary, out of place, and utterly inexplicable. But the actors ARE awesome, and they almost manage to rise above it, bless them.
@@EmmaOnATangent
If you’re criticising the television episodes, it’s the scriptwriter and the producers of the series that are at fault for anything you haven’t liked, not the author or the book. The series has never completely followed the books, each series has varied from what’s in the books. They have either added bits not in the books, left events or characters from the books, changed some of the storylines. They have have even kept characters still alive when they died! Murtagh died at Callodon in the third book.
You obviously haven’t read the books.
@@pearlshaynea I WAS talking about the episodes, so. . . . .
Spot on! Well said in a nutshell!
The story would end the moment that tension and drama are in the past. You can't make 14 episodes about living happily.
jamie is so
awesome..amazing actor..he deserves more credit..he thinks more about taking care of others than of himself
Why miss out at the end.... Jamie saying " Then I'm done with talking" 😜🙃
Seems he was thinking with his body?
시리즈 내내 jamie 와 claire 의 그 애절하고 사랑스러운 love scene 은 최고였어요
This is the side of Jamie I really hate. Yes he is justified in his anger but he also has to be a misogynist jerk when he’s mad at Claire. And no Claire isn’t perfect with how she deals with him either but Claire is way less spiteful.
Her excuses are ridiculous, She got drunk and acted stupid and grieved him for what a week! Claire has always looked out for Claire when she went Back to the future she did not have to go back to Frank she could have raised her daughter on her own but she had to have a man in her life looking out for her . She married Jamie to save herself. It is a pattern with her, Jamie's right she thinks with her body and not her brain
She married John not to protect herself but the rest of the family. She didn't want to go back to Frank. Jamie forced her to. She told Frank the truth and offered him a divorce from the moment she went back. She and John were grieving with her on the verge of killing herself. Grief sex is not unusual and they were married. Every man she slept with were her husbands. Mid 40s Jamie slept with a 16 yo, got her pregnant, had sex with his house maid and married the woman who tried to kill Claire. She was also forced to marry Jamie and tried to go back to her time days after the wedding. The reason Jamie said that she thinks with her body is because she's a surgeon who needs to be tactile while dealing with patients through surgery and treatments. So no, her explanation was perfectly legit but Jamie is an ass and is excused by the predominate female fandom.
I'm not defending Claire but clearly you're not watching well. It was Lord John Gray who asked her for marriage and went to her while she was very drunk and grieving. She didn't go to Frank after going back to her time, it was Frank who found her. She was in the hospital and Frank wanted her back and claimed Jaime's child as his. The marriage with Jamie is also not her doing but because of Dougal forcing her to marry Jamie. You have a selective memory for hating Claire. I don't think she's perfect and she's done many dumb decisions but the patterns you're saying are not mainly Claire's fault.
@@Richie-rs3wp "hating Claire" my goodness she's a character in a series ! That's a ridiculous statement. Try to remember people are giving just their opinions on fictional characters, not a real life person ! I hate knowone real or unreal .
I think Jamie's accent is different. Back to season 1 Scottish 😂 maybe.
I need to say that I'm not enjoying this last chapters....I don't know if the writer is trying to finish her book fast or the producers are just willing to finish this series.
Something is missing, a lot.
There's 10 books at the end of the series. Season 7 runs books 6-8 and Season 8 is book 9.
They had to rush the plot lines quickly before they were unsure about the renewal.
We weren't exactly even going to be able to see the end. Sam and Caitríona fought for it, for us.
@kirstynweinberg Thank you for your answer. I didn't know that.
@@anasaboiamccaughey2058 You're welcome. I know that not everyone follows up with the show. I'm a super Sassenach who follows socials and associated websites.
Bravissimi attori
Sam siempre echándole la culpa a cler
I think the love seen should of been more gentle
I agree ..It was like he was getting revenge or marking his territory ...especially since they were on LJG dinner table!!! I heard the books in this part was much better...
There was no need at all for this scene. The book handled it far better.
Also the scene between John and Claire when drunk and grieving is very different. In the book John comes into Claire’s bedroom and says he doesn’t feel like drinking alone. Next sentence in book is the two of them waking up naked in bed in the morning. They do lighthearted pull the bed cover down and look at each other’s body, John tells her she’s beautiful, she compliments his. They both resolve that what happened during the night would never happen again.
Their relationship does go through a change, they have developed a warmth towards each other that wasn’t there before.
The whole dynamic in the relationship between Jamie and John also changes. A certain coolness enters between them.
❤❤
The entire premise is cray- cray. Marry the guy to save yourself but sleep with him….hell to the no!
Right?
국내번역이 잘 못됐는지 아니면 원래 책의 내용이 그런건지 이 에피소드는 3류 prono 보다 못합니다 시리즈 전반적으로 흐르는 jamie and claire 의 성격이나 행동과도 전혀 부합도 안되고 그리고 침대에서 일어나는 john 과 claire 정말로 끔찍 그 자체였습니다
Diana gabaldon 의 그 독특하고 정신이상적인 가치관이면 john 은 jamie 의 딸인 brianna 와 동침을 할수도 william 은 claire 와 드라마에서 동침을 심지어 퍼거슨도 클레어와 시즌1 에 나왔던 듀갈도 역겨웠는데 다이아나 개벌든의 정신이상적인 상태라면 충분히 그럴수도 있다는 생각이 드네요
이 존과클레어의 동침이라는 이 신은 그들의 능력으로는 해결할 방법이 없네요
이 정도면 Diana gabaldon 이라는 작가는 소설이나 영화속의 claire 에게 아주심한 열등감이 있어서 그렇게 비 상식적인 내용들을 썼나 싶네요
😢el tenia hijos y vos trabajando y estudiando para trabajar si algun dia volvia a su casa y vos yirando
시즌7 11화 에 나오는 john 과 claire 의 동침신은 outlander 전체의 시리즈를 엉망으로 만들어 버렸습니다 스코틀랜드에서 미국으로 존의 조카를 수술하러 온다는것도 이해가 안되고(17세기) 무슨 옆동네로 가는것도 아니고 몇달이 걸릴텐데 또한 드라마상 그 당시 미국은 제이미나 클레어는 영국에게는 반군의 위험한 인물인데 이안은 폐결핵으로 죽어가는데 그리고 시리즈 전체의 캐릭터를 보면은 jamie claire john은 정의롭고 john 도 게이라고는 하지만 반듯하게 그려졌는데 jamie 도 클레어가 루이 국왕과 잤다고 얘기 했을때도 프레이저 리지에서 납치를 당해서 집단으로 강간을 당했을때도 그 전에 무수한 폭력 강간 불합리한 일을 서로서로 헤쳐서 나왔는데 뜬금없이 이 세명의 주인공(캐릭터)들을 존은 친구의 아내를 클레어는 남편의 친구를 클레어를 자기 목숨보다 아끼는 제이미를 이 episode 에서는 진흙탕으로 만들어습니다 이 시리즈는 john 과 claire 의 섹스신으로 인해 3류 개막장 porno로 만들어서 더 이상의 기대는 하지를 않는게 맞고 중간에 감독이 바뀌었는지 전개도 매끄럽지 않습니다
내가 제일로 좋아했단 드리마를 prono로 만들어버린 감독에게 원작자인 다이아나 개벌든에게 다시한번 경악을 금치 못합니다
El se va tiene hijos por ahí nunca los va a ver y le hecha la culpa a cler xangano😊
What's wrong with her again?
Me gusta que cait le pegue a sam y el que siempre mete la pata es el teniendo mujeres hijos por otros lugares lejos de la casa.
Jamie e Claire estão lindos como nunca 💞Como não amar essa série? Só não gostei da cena desse reencontro. Muito diferente do livro. Sexo frio sem amor ❤️
If you notice ever since they brought on that intimacy coordinator The chemistry between them has all but flattened. Just compare their chemistry before season 6, Then after season 6.
Does Jamie understand that LJG is in love with him and what that means?
Jamie knows that John is in love with him. And John knows that Jamie does not think of John in that way. Jamie being straight and all and completely in love with Claire. Also, Jamie has a been a victim of a violent rape by a man but John is unaware of that. So, the beating that Jamie laid down on John is mostly about John insinuating that he was thinking of being with Jamie when he was with Claire. It was a PTSD fueled response.
@@sulleys1929 does LJG know about J with Black Jack ? I am not sure he ever told him or is it in the books?
@@sulleys1929John doesn't know (in the books )
@@thekrayonkidsbookadventures NO! LJG has no knowledge of the BJR rape of Jamie. There was a slight reference in one of the LJG books prior to 'The Scottish Prisoner'. LJG said something like, "I could make you scream .... meaning having sex with him." Jamie did NOT takes this well at all!!! LJG realized something had happened to Jaime but no details. They had a major falling out over it for a number of years. If you read 'The Scottish Prisoner', the beginning of the book Jamie is very hostile to LJG. by the end they have become friends again.
He doesn't know they got married yet! That'll change things again. :)
Sam no quieras echarle la culpa a cait vos sos el culpable no cai.t
앞으로 남은 시리즈는 더 말도 안되고 개연성이 없는 개막장으로 흘러갈겄이 눈에 보이네요
Ready this new episodes are nothing. Just repeating itself
El se caso con una loca y lo tu iste q buscar mientras el se habia casado con otra q co etio muchos herrores q no merece q le perdones cait
Y a cler la mandó 2.º años con otro hombre a vivir lejos y nunca fue a buscarla volvió ella x que quería estar en su casa,
Acá lejos teniendo hijos.
Google fordítást kérnék angol nyelvről magyar nyelvre! Köszi
Mandalo con atra mujer a sam ya no te sirve
Разочарование!👎
Sam cait díganme por fanor si hacen el último episodio los dos si no yo me retiro y no veomás. No vi hasta acá para no ver que terminan juntos co o toda pareja de una cerie pero Diana esta tan loca con briana que quiere ter I ar co o pareja con briana y sam así que yo no veo mas..
No me mientan ami
Esam tubo por ahí hijos es el que hizo todas las cagadas y siempre culpando a cler no me gusta esa forma que se hace el santo y a sido de lo peor lejos de casa.
Geneva who he only had one episode with, immediately became his real life girlfriend. 🙄
@@libraprncss
Geneva was never Jaime’s girlfriend, he didn’t even like her, he thought her spoilt and bossy amongst other things.
@@harsharnsandher1363 i said REAL life not the show!
@@libraprncss Not true either.
@@pbjer2q-hj3yr haha i guess you havent fangirled the show enough if you do not know they dated for about 2 years lol and i know it isnt right but i hated sam for it 😂
@@libraprncss Again, they didn't.
Why is Claire allways care more for others then for Jamie? Why does Claire more for John and Frank intesd of Jamie? It feels emotional abusive
She left all her great 20th century life and a successful medical career to be with Jamie, a man who has nothing to offer her but love. You still think she cares more about others than him???
❤❤❤❤
This is so dumb like i cannot fathom how someone would think of sleeping with another man when their husband dies presumably like wouldn't you want nothing to do with other men. When you're grieving. At least jamie had years or months before he was forced to sleep with williams mom and that other woman idk about her cuz i skipped some seasons. But even jamie is at fault. They both boasting about their love for each other then they quickly go sleep with someone else
You guys put too much importance on sex. Sex is just another form of self expression. She was grieving and was numb. She wanted to feel something and turned to someone who felt her pain on some level.
Grief sex is a real thing. Ask a psychologist. They'll tell you.
@@olavihekandjo2928 and yet Claire wouldn't even let Frank (her husband) touch her when she was grieving losing Jamie the first time. That is why this makes no sense it is not consistent with the character of Claire. But I suppose Diana needed some conflict and also needed shock value even at the cost of her own characters and the show followed suit with Diana's storyline.
But with LJG she could somehow share the love and memory for Jamie, with Frank she had to hide him deep in her heart. That’s a total different thing.
@@sulleys1929 For Frank, there was 3 big reasons, 1) They were already had sort falling out due being separated so long to the war, remember their trip to Scotland was them "reconnecting" post WWII. 2) Claire and Jamie even before this and after returning to Frank had shared years of time together as well as a loss of a child. And 3) She could never get fully over that Frank being sort of a dead ringer for Black Jack Randall.