Tony-NY | Atheism Only Works In The Physical World | Talk Heathen 06.25
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.พ. 2025
- Talk Heathen 06.25 for June 19, 2022 with Katy Montgomerie and Kenneth Leonard.
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Talk Heathen is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared toward long-form and on-going dialogue with theists & atheists about religion, theism, & secularism. Talk Heathen is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.
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The Atheist Community of Austin is organized as a nonprofit educational corporation to develop & support the atheist community, to provide opportunities for socializing & friendship, to promote secular viewpoints, to encourage positive atheist culture, to defend the first amendment principle of government-religion separation, to oppose discrimination against atheists & to work with other organizations in pursuit of common goals.
We define atheism as the lack of belief in gods. This definition also encompasses what most people call agnosticism.
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NOTES
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Wittgenstein would be proud. language makes things exist.
basically, he thought up an argument and didn’t want to hear that it wasn’t valid.
11:00 How can you show happiness? With an MRI, my friend 😊.
So he's saying that theism can only work in a fictional universe? Sounds about right to me.
hes cool
🤣🤣🤣🤣
11:48 this reminded me of the speech between Picard and Deanna when they are refering to a language barrier between them and another species.
Deanna held up her cup of tea and said a word in her own language, then asked picard what she said. He guesses cup but she questions wether thats true or wheter she could have meant cuo, tea, brown, hot etc. He cant know just from a word and a gesture.
She did a good job of talking about it, without getting to confusing.
Tonys in another dimension
"Atheism Only Works In The Physical World "
Well, with no evidence for any other world, that is not a problem.
@Handsome Wade Brody Jr. Probably because they are surrounded by people who believe exactly as they believe so when they talk with someone who doesn't agree with them, they aren't able to present any convincing arguments.
I agree, so I guess we're done here.
Another way to say it is "Atheism only works in reality".
There's the realm of dreams and nightmares and there's also Halloweentown. I could go on.
Show me the non physical world now. Go.
Failed
Sad 😥
He was calling from a non physical world...
I could not hear him 😂
Yeah. Caller audio is too low. I was listening in my car with volume up 3 quarters and could barely hear him while the hosts were quite loud.
Lame
"Money's not real" Tell that to the clerk at the grocery store or your landlord, or the tax collector...
Or my bank statement: or my physical money I hold on hand. I’m surprised they think up these “arguments” and think “nailed it!”
thats what im going to say to the IRS. Lol Money isnt real! hey hey what are you doing, put down the handcuffs! Halp!
Or the megapreacher. I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the hat is passed around, and one of the members offers thoughts and prayers in lieu of cash.
Let's try not paying our fuel bills because money isn't real lol
Value is real, and money is the battery for value for a lot of things.
Tony , gold medal in mental gymnastics.
No, I have met people with much better imaginations. I would give him a participation prize though, perhaps a certificate.
It’s not gymnastics if the ideas fall flat when explained. More like a mental three-legged race.
Tony, you're struggling horribly but you don't even realize it!
"All our thoughts are in the non physical world. So you can't think for yourself or make any choices. Instead you MUST listen to all my crap, believe everything I say and never question me, you have to live your life the way I tell you to live and you must give me money. My god says so!" "My god is real and your thoughts and feelings and choices are not real. Praise and obey my god!"
I want to start a atheist rock band called Chemical Beliefs.
I caught the scent of Jordan Peterson's hair product in this call.
If nothing else, I admire Peterson for his ability to instantly trigger the left, and the legions of same in whose heads he lives rent free.😂
I miss Kenneth. ❤
13:34 my effin ears
Only take about two minutes to get € euros changed to $ dollars in NY.
Money is simply a medium of exchange. We use it as a place holder to measure the value of objects we wish to trade/buy/sell. Like a book we value at $5. The $5 bill may not have value in and of itself, however, we know now that $5 is worth that book. Because we've assigned it.
Thanks a lot guys!! You just ruined Christmas for my kids!
Just because it's in a book, it doesn't mean it exists.
I feel like the most stoned high school student of all time just called in to the show to be like "What if The Matrix, man?"
That would've been more entertaining
This caller proves my point since a child, gods exist out of reality, in fiction. Thanks.
He asked how do you show happiness? The big AZZ ear to ear smile I got when this call was over.
ROTFL "the scalpel you use [on my brain] will have to be very small" No doubt about that.
This was honestly insufferable
I can agree that God is a social construct the same way money is. Or Santa.
Huh?
You might be blocking out the part where it wasn’t his knee you were sitting on
Money is a redeemable token for reciprocal altruism - (Thx Dawkins). Cod is an idea that has no external form, is unreal, untestable, and unverifiable. To get these two mixed up is strange, other than money has moved from pieces of paper or coin into the realm of bits, and bytes - both are still real. Cod never was, and still isn't real.
Hey, nobody has ever managed to prove Santa doesn’t exist.😜
@@FourDeuce01 No one can prove that there isn't a teapot orbiting the sun between Mars and Jupiter - thx Russel - the burden of proof is upon the claimant, not the person who does not accept the claim.
Only works in the physical world???? There is nothing other than the physical world.
Except for Tony's wonderful world of Woo and BS.
That is where they should have begun, asking Tony what other "world" he can demonstrate that is NOT physical. But I guess they got there. Tony was maddeningly obtuse about his assumptions.
He's actually Pipi Longstocking and makes his own worlds, beside the we live in.
"Vide-vide-vit, I make the world how I like it ." It works, for him! 😂
Well, to my understanding, the modern study of Philosophy, in all of its esoteric forms, isn't in the physical world.
Just look at all the wild, weird and disgusting things that roll out of William Lane Craig's or Jordan B. Peterson's mouth that originated in their respective metaphysical substrates! 🙄
@@soonerarrow Philosophy is the result of physical brains, so it very much is a part of the physical world.
"The question is designed where I'm forced to agree with you." Immediately followed by "What was the question?" SMH...
I truly have no clue what tony was trying to say, and I'm not sure if I want to know
Generally I can at least follow arguments when i think they're silly, but i just don't get what the argument he's making is.
You can often hear Tony talking in the background while the hosts are talking. Like many religious apologists, Tony isn’t used to participating in a conversation. Theists are often unable to see the difference between a conversation and a sermon.
i would like to say something about what tony said at about 1:40 in the video.
"you only exist in the physical world" now to me that statement says that there is no non physical world for you to live in like let's say heaven for instance.
tony if you only exist in the physical world then there is and can be nowhere else for you to exist when you die...
When you throw in ET's everything changes
I know we are discouraged from saying that religious people are dumb or stupid, but we HAVE to make an exception in Tony's case!
I didn't have to think about that car hitting me to experience the effects
Go back 10,000 year and more Tony, humans didn't have money. In fact the first idea of money comes with trade,
"We can show that the Queen exists"
Well, not any more... 😆
I would pick santa.
He has not commited mass genocide!
Tony owes me 26 minutes. In Reality, not Narnia.
Ya, I'll give him the 28 seconds but I want those 26 minutes back.
Thanks for saving 26 min of my life by wasting your 26 min and commenting it here
Lucky me for getting out at 15. ...jeezy krist
26 Minutes in Narnia? I love that band!
Money began with bartering, 'what will you give me for a dozen eggs?', 'I have three cabbeges.', 'well a dozen eggs will 'cost' you four cabbages'.
Tony’s discourse belongs on r/iam14andthisisdeep.
when i point out that people like tony, we can agree that 100's of other gods does not exist. but when we get to his chosen version he moves the goal post 1b light years away.
Words are like sheets we put over reality. We can take them off, switch them out, and mix them around. We can put a sheet we put on a dog onto a tree, but that doesn't make the tree a dog. Words have no effect on reality. Reality just is.
This Tony guy is putting me to sleep with his rambling and talking nonsense.
Omg me too!! Was just about to fall asleep then saw this comment lol
Sometimes I feel that's an intentional Christian tactic.
I like the color of Katy's nails :)
10:11 SOMEONE CALL AN 911 his guy obviously has a screwdriver stuck in the head.
You do an fMRI scan on a conscious subject, and you see correlations between the scan and the thoughts of the subject. But, still, it's only a correlation, not necessarily a causation. But thoughts DO have existence in physical reality and can influence MRI scans.
Still pound notes in Scotland and all the note designs different than England, just for reference.
Yeah that's one dinner invite I don't need to send 🙄
This is my favorite Atheist program. Katy is always so calm and rational that she makes me feel better about humanity. Tony just cannot stop interrupting. Why be so adamant and persistent about a god that has nothing to do with us. Deism is the least threatening to me of all religions but at the same time the most baffling. Love the calico kitty! I have a calico also.
Same... I started following because of Katy... I could listen to her soothing voice of reason all day ❤️
Big Katy fan here too. Lots of compassion, intelligence, and thoughtfulness.
Agree shes so sweet
She fucking shreds metal guitar too what a badass
@@trulydef418 intellect, metal and cats. Hard to beat.
Money is a part of our barter system. We can demostrarte it's existence. Money is the medium we use for the exchange without having to exchange goods and services directly for one another.
The love of money is the route of all evil. I do firmly believe that.
sounds more like Darth Dawkins
My volume button is in shambles
5:56 The nitpicking Prince says: if you want to use euros in the US the money might be rejected because its not acceptable in that establishment. Other establishments *will* accept it because they deal with foreign currency all the time and they *can* be bothered to change it later....also, the money will *always* be worth something because all currency is collectible no matter how old...💴💵💶💷💸💰😊
Interesting that he brought up the Hitchens quotation while clinging to his deistic teddy bear
"I can prove the queen exists."
Not any more Ken. Not any more.
Also... I need money to live, without it I die as food costs money. A roof over my head costs money, to stop me dying from exposure. It isn't about happiness.
Like gods, there are numerous queens. One dies out and another comes along.
Yeah. Now we got Charlie 3.🤪
Katy, I was wondering if we could make like Adam and Eve and populate the earth😍😍😍😍
Tony doesn't even know how a conversation works, how can he ever understand the difference between fantasy and reality, or creationism and evolution?
What is MY CURRENCY, my Dude?!!
Judging by the comments I guess im lucky I could barely here him
You didn’t miss anything interesting mate, you’re definitely lucky, the rest of us came away with less brain cells hahaha
We are not “plagued” with the idea of money. There has always been a need to exchange one thing for another. Even with tribal people, who do not interact with people outside their tribe, they still exchange things amongst themselves. I caught these fish and I will share these fish if you share the tubers and fruits you gathered. As society became more complex, with members interacting with members outside their immediate society, members found they may want something someone else caught or made but not have anything to directly trade for it. But a third member may want something the 2nd member has. Member 2 may not want anything from the third but the 1st member does. So instead of having to find multiple people to trade things with until the one member has acquired the item the first member will trade for, they all agreed that certain tokens have worth and can be used as a substitute to trading for actual goods or services. Religion is of no comparison to money because it’s just a service or good. It’s more akin to a fish, or an article of clothing, or a plumbing job. Something traded for with the established tokens of exchange.
Communism comes pretty close. I suppose in a sense, you’re still “exchanging” but it’s not a direct exchange. You’re supplying society with goods and also receiving them from others. Full scale collectivism. In that way, sort of exchanging. But you need everyone “bought in.”
@@joemiller7082 And that’s why communism cannot work on larger scales (it does work in small, specific, communities). You will never get the “buy in” you need.
@@joemiller7082 And it doesn't work. Communism and Socialism have aspects necessary to a functioning society. Either, taken as a whole, however, result as taking the whole pack of sleeping pills.
This caller is incredibly dense.
"Money is a god."
No money is a tool I need to be able to live in todays society. Nothing more!
Tony was so sure this sounded smart.
Does he realize that Muslim is the younger religion?
Atheism only works in the physical world and then he says that's all we have is the physical world..so is he saying there is no god?
Money has flexibility in both value and presentation, unlike religion is supposed to.
Money,as far as I know,was created by religion as an alternative to penance .
It's easier to carry monetary "tokens" than say, a pair of doves.
tony's voice is so quiet that I can't even be interested in his inaudible voice. I like the host voices. Their voices are clear. 🐂💩
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
Tony, maybe this might help. From Psych Central- "You might think of your emotions as non-material or as only happening in your mind, but emotions are also very physical. In fact, there’s a constant feedback loop between your body and mind, known as the mind-body connection. Think about how you felt the last time you were really happy. Maybe you felt more energy coursing through your body, you felt light on your feet, and you couldn’t help but have a big smile on your face. It was an entire body experience.
Whenever you experience an emotion, it sets off a series of impulses in your brain and body which leads to specific physiological effects. So whether you’re feeling happy, sad, or angry, you experience immediate changes in your body movements as well as your autonomic nervous system (breathing, heartbeat)."
Strange, I find it very easy to be an atheist and have done since birth. If it ever gets too tough maybe I'll rethink.
This is NOT a conversation when the caller just regurgitates the exact same BS without acknowledging the questions.
Essential his argument is “I’m right, you’re wrong and my evidence is ‘because I say so’”.
What evidence is there for a non-physical world?
This.
If thoughts are non-physical, demonstrate a thought that is totally independent of a brain or other physical mechanism designed to reproduce it.
Tony's inability to hear what others are saying is only surpassed by his inability to even bother listening...
You could tell early on he was here to assert a wild proposition and defend it blindly. He was never interested in discussion.
This is a guy who’s just intelligent enough to be dangerous.
In Kratos we trust.
Only with spoons....he couldn't figure out how to use anything more complicated than that; without one of the nurses helping, he'd enucleate himself with one of those spoons, every time he tried to fasten the velcro on his shoes. A parody of intelligence
😴
What is this with young American people just interrupting and continuing to talk while someone is talking to them? Are people outside of America this rude? Dunning Kruger is my uneducated guess. It's a bad social habit that started only recently.
You can literally see thoughts in the brain with a cat scan. Happiness can be seen in a cat scan.
Tony sounds like a sedated Darth Dawkins.
That was my exact thought.
Shit!! Maybe he is!! Darf's discovered drugs!!!!!
Gods are intrinsically cultural in the same way as food, architecture, language, fashion, money, politics, etc. The gods are completely dependent on people because they are a product of the cultural expression. This is why gods vary across cultures, have personal nuisances, and change over time - just like people. I wonder why that is?
Exactly :)
I've just finished two anthropologists' books that suggest precisely that: Pascal Boyer's "Religion Explained" and Scott Atran's "In Gods We Trust." Philosopher Daniel Dennett discussed both anthropologists in his book "Breaking the Spell"
Tony: that's why it's difficult to be an atheist.
No Tony, it's really really easy to be an atheist.
How can we show happy thoughts in the physical world? Brain scans show different neural activity patterns in the brain depending on emotional state.
I can prove money is real & has value by just going to the store to buy something. I can't take a Bible verse into In & Out & get a double-double.
"hinduism which has its multiple variants and beliefs in it"..
Um, how many variants and beliefs are in christianity alone?
Atheism Only Works In The Physical World
Well that's okay it's the only world we got.
Money are simply universal goods to simplify the goods and services exchange process. That's it. Idk how this guy can live in a world he doesn't know shit about.
I thought Geebuzz dissed the moneychangers? This guy says they were in the temple creating the monetary system as if that were a good thing.
2:44 remember a version of Santa Can be real. but not GOD.
Gods do not exist in the physical world that surrounds me. They exist in stories and legends that become images inside my brain.
How can you grow up and miss the understanding that money is just an organized form for exchanging debt among people?
And while writing this I hear Tony's voice:
"But debt doesn't exist" or "what is debt?" 😅
Larry King called in the show to make a stupid point, confusing virtual with supernatural, so interesting.
Why did he keep interrupting the hosts? It's like he doesn't actually want to hear their input.
lol Katy got a gun!
In the end, it sounds like Tony is broke and he's pissed off that other people have money, so he wants to destroy the very concept of money itself.
I'd bet all the money I actually have that if money were "abolished", Tony would still be poor because he's lazy, both mentally and most likely physically as well.
I would like to be Kenneths friend. what a wonderful and kind person he is :)
My guy!! I agree, he seems like a very nice fellow.
@@TheTruthKiwi He is naïve and confused about whats real but he seems like a nice guy.
@@jonwood6101 Ahhh, ok. What do you think is real Jon?
@@TheTruthKiwi Reality! The time to believe something should come after there is evidence to validate it. Not before. I realize that is not how most Christians come to believe in their god. That typically comes from childhood indoctrination later dubbed as "Faith". Christians use Logic, reason and known science in everyday life decisions to determine if something is true or real but when it comes to determining if there is a god, they have no choice but to believe on faith based on claims. But claims are not evidence and when claims and assertions violate everything we know about the how the brain and thoughts work, Yeah that person is naïve and confused.
What do consider as Real? Please don't say a biblical flat earth, or souls etc.. I'm referring to the physical world that most of us do live in and interact with. BTW I agree Tony sounded like a nice guy, he also sounded desperate to invalidate or ignore science to make his god seem real and that's really sad.
@@jonwood6101 Read J.J Stoopid's initial comment again man.
We monitor the brain to see happiness and sadness. It is proof that damage to certain parts of the brain can destroy your emotional reactions. Thought this was common knowledge...
Atheism works very well in my dreams as well as when I am awake.
Tony has a very valid point, and Kenneth and Katy don't get it. There is no intrinsic value to money. It only holds value because the mass of people have faith that it holds value. Without that faith, a suitcase full of hundred dollar bills would hold no more value than a suitcase full of tissue paper. Kenneth is 100% wrong when he says that money is objectively useful. Money is only valuable because of belief and faith. Also, I HATE the way Kenneth muted Tony when the hosts of this show frequently interrupt the callers. Everyone should be expected to play by the same rules. Just because Kenneth doesn't have the wherewithal to understand what Tony is talking about doesn't mean that what Tony is saying is "wacky nonsense". Tony intellectually kicked their butts, and neither one of them even realize it....
He just chatted shit for half an hour. Didn't listen and went off on odd tangents.
Waste of time.
Can you prove money exists though?
Reality itself is an illusion we create in our own minds.
Yeah dude, pass the bong.