The tushy chooses the saddle, those who've studied bicycle lore have always known this... Seriously though, good video explaining the sentence above in usable information.
If you want a longer Power that is more comfortable for all day riding or maybe gravel/MTB, the Phenom is essentially its long-nosed sibling. Both very good saddles.
I've gone through 9 different saddles (varying length, width and padding) before finding the Selle Italia SLR boost ti gravel. I can finally go for 45min+ rides with going numb.
I went through so many expensive saddles to find mine: selle smp stratos. It's the ugliest saddle but has solved my issues of saddle discomfort even on 100mile rides.
Very timely video. After watching this two weeks ago I bought the Power Pro Mirror ($325). Solved chaffing (didn’t expect that), no saddle pressure in the drops anymore, and overall comfort improved where my sit bones hit. I can now ride for longer periods without getting numbness and overall saddle fatigue. Price wasn’t a concern if it could fix all that. It just got to the point where I had to do something. Thank you Jeff!
I would say that saddles are the most important component in a road bike. Thanks again for another important video and I encourage you to post more videos about saddles.
Excellent video. Just after watching 3 other videos about saddles and it was like they are just looking for air time, this is the best and worst saddle, with this video i learnt what to look for.
The longer saddle is for those who like to move around a lot. This also supports guys/gals with larger quad muscles who need the rotational clearance when pedalling. The power is more “V” shaped which can dig into the back of certain people’s legs.
My issue with the Specialized Power saddles is that the wide is too wide and the smaller on is too small for me. Fizik Argo in 150mm is perfect for me, I really like my 3d one. Worst saddle for me was the long nose Fizik Antares.
Man i wanted to see a video of you explaining why you used the ism back in the day. I think it has its uses outside TTs. A few track cyclists use it due to the nature of their positions (extremely long and low, higher than usual saddles heights). It might be beneficial for riders like me, with natural anterior pelvic rotation and bulky tights near the glutes. I find that modern wide saddles (143mm and upwards) are too wide and get uncomfortable due to chafing.
I've been using ism pl 1.1 saddle since half a year, after testing around 10 different saddles from different brands. The issue with other saddles was that I always experienced numbness, as I do really like to rotate my pelvis forward, therefore was always landing on the nose of the 'noseless saddles'. Ism was a bless as it is constructed the way that your whole weight is being transferred on to your sit bones and your soft tissues can rest. I needed about 2 weeks of riding to get more comfortable in this saddle, as my sitbones experienced me sitting on them for the first time ever. After that both sitbones as well as soft tissues always feel perfect. Ism has it's legacy when it comes to TT bikes, however they create their saddles for basically every type of riding. I use my ism saddle on my road bike, doing lots of climbing as well as numerous efforts with 90degrees bent elbows, sitting on the edge of the saddle. I believe that anybody who has numbness issues and nothing seems to work should give a try to ism saddles, as in my case it was a blessing. The only thing I would focus on is to check out their website and choose the saddle that would suit rider's riding style, as putting a pure tt style saddle on a grand fondo bike would probably not solve above mentioned issues...
to answer your question at the end, there seems to be a trend going back to traditional length of saddles. well for me it allows me to adjust my position to go back and forward to choose relax/aggressive respectively
With short nosed saddles (and I tested quite a variety), I always have the feeling of falling off to the front. Moreover, as you control and steer the bike mostly with weight shift through the bum, there is material missing to press the legs against somehow. I'm a relatively high and big rider though, mabe different for the skinny types.
Yeah, that Ronin Evo was great for me. Unfortunately, I forgot my size after the first one broke. Specialized got me the other one you showed because they didn't have any Ronin's on hand. I had to ride back home. Unfortunately, I bought two 143s and they were the wrong size and past the dates to send them back when I seen I need the 155. I definitely need to get that correct size back. Some of my best KOMs were with the correct size saddle.
Second aftermarket saddle I ever bought was the Romin and It's been perfect for me. Bonus points: I found one in sky blue that perfectly matched my frame color!
I never realized how important the right saddle height is to you liking your saddle or not. Once I got that right, my range of usable saddles went up considerably. I’m not too picky, I do like a cutout and narrow but other than that I can deal. Before I was chasing saddles left and right, saddle sores, etc.
@@ultimatist opposite. Too low. Part of the issue with fitting yourself is you read about how high saddle is going to wreck your back etc etc. went to see a fitter and I was about 30mm low. Oddly, same symptom, back pain from too low of a saddle. The body is amazingly adaptable albeit wrong at times.
@@10ktube yes yes, I've been in both camps. I'd pick too low over too high, it was much less painful, but agree that both can take a viable saddle and make it feel wrong. Among other issues.
I use ISM for my bikes. Track cycling lends to staying tucked and aero and my outdoor rides are long fun rides where I'm seated most of the time. Also their road bike variant saddles do differ in their shape compared to their TT saddles
@@lolbubs11111 i used to run power but got some seriously bad sores when I went into a training regimen and spending a lot more time on the bike. ISM PN3.0 became my saddle of choice. My most comfortable bike is my track bike.
I had the ism on my bike and it was so comfortable and practical. I also had the s works power and it is very wide that you keep gravitating forward or you have to tilt it a lot so you slide again if not putting 250 watts. As for the Roman, it is very hard in the middle section
I would add a "step saddle" to the mix for anyone interested. They are particularly good at keeping you seated in position as opposed to what many of us did as younger racers which was to slide back and forth on the saddle. It does seem from my experience much better to be seated in the "optimum position" even if the power output goes up or down etc. The creeping forward you often see even in the pro ranks is probably not helpful. But as so much of cycling still sticks to tradition for the sake of tradition many still think a flat saddle which allows that sort of forward position is a good thing etc. I am sure some will debate this however.
Been using an ISM saddle for about 10 years now for road and gravel. Just really comfy and no pressure problems even on 7+ hour rides, but curious about the Specialized Mirror tech. Based on your insightful vid I might try and find a shop that'll let me try one out to see if it's worth considering switching.
You made a very informative video and the presentation was great. I would be interested to hear what you think of the Bontrager Aeolus Pro saddle given the use parameters you have just described ? Thanks, Dave
I dont have saddle issue with my stock Giant Approach saddle on TCR, but i ventured on available short nosed saddle to give best comfort for extreme long distance ride time (duathlon/long epic rides) on tri bars. Found out ISM PN 1.1 works best for me (other candidates includes Pro Stealth vanilla and Bontrager Aeolus vanilla)
AliExpress has heavily inspired versions of most saddles and I've bought several to try what I would agree / disagree with, I then sell the ones i disagree with or give them out. They often even have the carbon versions themselves. I've been using a 3d printed Racework one with carbon shell and rails, 155g, I don't love it as much as I I was hoping I would, but I forget about it, which probably makes it a good saddle. Given manufacturing costs, I'll blow my dad before I spend 300 or more USD on a saddle.
Wouldn't it mean that the Fizik Transiro Mistica Kium (especially the wider 141mm version) would be excellent for both criterium and triathlon/TT? It's wide and chunky on the front, has a channel and has some support at the back too if you would do some climbing with it. Plus it doesn't cost you a fortune haha. When my local bike fitters measured my sitbones we always measured very wide sitbones (155-158mm) but funny enough, my first ever road bike's (Vitus Zenium SL VR from 2018) 138mm Vitus saddle was perfect even for 200-250 mile long rides with not too much stopping for 12-15 hours of riding. Is it possible that I have mostly been comfortable with riding in a more aero position even on the climbs and on longer rides when I didn't sit on the widest part of my sitbones?
You can also sit on a polystyrene offcut, same impression pushed in. Im so fed up buying flucking saddles, on the sworks 3d at the moment and still trying to adjust..
Most important takeaway from this video... get a bike fit from a professional bike fitter. Good information about lots of different saddles. But dont guess on which saddle might fit if you are new to cycling or are having issues with your undercarriage/bum. Have a pro take a look and get your bike to fit you.
In my experience most people will fit on most saddles and saddle choice is much less important than we think. If you're experiencing pain after trying many saddles, it's most likely a bikefit issue. Also the ISM has a cutout in the front because when your pelvis is rotated, like in a tt position, that's where your perineum is. Pressure on the perineum causes genital numbness, which I have experienced and do not recommend 😅
hey! just noticed that your code for Stages powermeters is not working :( . Huge fan of the channel and trying to start training for some races this year!
i Bought the mirror pro saddle and it was the biggest mistake I've ever made. It is one of the most uncomfortable saddles ever I been struggling since I bought it I can not find a comfortable fit with it I've kept removing in it change the position til and everything nothing works
Personally I really can't get along with the specialized power, although it seems to work for a lot of people. I get a lot of chafing and it feels like it's to flat and thus physically blocking my thighs moving up and down. Saddle selection is really personal, and I don't think saddle width and ride style is the only factors to consider. I use the fizik aliante open 141mm, only one that worked for me.
Hey guys, I need your help here. When you rotate your hips forward, how do you avoid sitting on your junk? I’ve found that if I rotate much at all everything goes numb down there and then I start to worry about ED. I have everything pulled up as high as possible inside my shorts. Serious question. No joke.
I dunno man. I’m definitely on the bones. But the soft tissue is getting squeezed between my pubic bone and the saddle nose. Any advice? I’m no Ron Jeremy either. 😅
buy a cheap ali expeess knockoff, try it out see if u like it then after u know u like the saddle pull the trigger on the legit one. I bought a cheap prologo dimension knockoff and love it
Just get a specialized power saddle.. any of them.. i found these work for MOST people and i have 2 of them, one on gravel and one on road bike.. lighter one on the roadie.
What is the front of the saddle for? It's specifically designed to catch in your shorts as you sit down again from an out of the saddle effort. Trust me, sketchy😂
Only problem - Big-S saddles are cheap (as to what Big-S pays for 'em) junk that won't last long. My friends at SMP offer test centers (along with high-quality Made-in-Italy products) so a rider can try various models to find out what works for them.
I have own several saddlers Give many to none profit Btw we have the same size sit bones . The last purcase I made was fine later realize for distances 20miles I did try Century test and it was a true nightmare realize @ 60 mile had already paifull experiance but I continue to reach my home all I can say those last 20 miles was unbearable. Of course the saddler purchase was no return that was my fault. My point is not me is Manufactures marketing promotions the problem!! Im 5'7 125 lb run several Marathons also long distance Biking!!
Aside from his relatively _advanced age_ (had to throw that in :-), Jeff's basically COACHING all of us...in addition to riding very competitively. Almost all the best coaches were NOT the MVP in any of their sports. Why so haughty, @mbastos - are you regularly winning TdF stages?
The tushy chooses the saddle, those who've studied bicycle lore have always known this...
Seriously though, good video explaining the sentence above in usable information.
important that when you take a sit bone measurement you sit in the position that you're riding at, not sitting up normally like you would on a chair
good point - probably why this old way of doing things isn't perfect. Also, the position you're riding in changes, like i discussed in the vid.
*90mm Sit Bones!* - A weight-saving opportunity by eliminating the top saddle entirely and riding on the rails! (just like WvA)
Eventually there'll just be a cleat that you click into with your butt
If you want a longer Power that is more comfortable for all day riding or maybe gravel/MTB, the Phenom is essentially its long-nosed sibling. Both very good saddles.
I've gone through 9 different saddles (varying length, width and padding) before finding the Selle Italia SLR boost ti gravel. I can finally go for 45min+ rides with going numb.
I went through so many expensive saddles to find mine: selle smp stratos. It's the ugliest saddle but has solved my issues of saddle discomfort even on 100mile rides.
Very timely video. After watching this two weeks ago I bought the Power Pro Mirror ($325). Solved chaffing (didn’t expect that), no saddle pressure in the drops anymore, and overall comfort improved where my sit bones hit. I can now ride for longer periods without getting numbness and overall saddle fatigue. Price wasn’t a concern if it could fix all that. It just got to the point where I had to do something. Thank you Jeff!
I would say that saddles are the most important component in a road bike. Thanks again for another important video and I encourage you to post more videos about saddles.
Excellent video. Just after watching 3 other videos about saddles and it was like they are just looking for air time, this is the best and worst saddle, with this video i learnt what to look for.
The longer saddle is for those who like to move around a lot. This also supports guys/gals with larger quad muscles who need the rotational clearance when pedalling. The power is more “V” shaped which can dig into the back of certain people’s legs.
My issue with the Specialized Power saddles is that the wide is too wide and the smaller on is too small for me. Fizik Argo in 150mm is perfect for me, I really like my 3d one.
Worst saddle for me was the long nose Fizik Antares.
I'm just looking at a new saddle because of numbmess after 45+min on the bike. Perfect timing.
just get an slr boost
It's probably your bike fit moreso than the saddle.
just lower your sadle height by 1-3mm and try again
Man i wanted to see a video of you explaining why you used the ism back in the day.
I think it has its uses outside TTs. A few track cyclists use it due to the nature of their positions (extremely long and low, higher than usual saddles heights).
It might be beneficial for riders like me, with natural anterior pelvic rotation and bulky tights near the glutes. I find that modern wide saddles (143mm and upwards) are too wide and get uncomfortable due to chafing.
I've been using ism pl 1.1 saddle since half a year, after testing around 10 different saddles from different brands. The issue with other saddles was that I always experienced numbness, as I do really like to rotate my pelvis forward, therefore was always landing on the nose of the 'noseless saddles'. Ism was a bless as it is constructed the way that your whole weight is being transferred on to your sit bones and your soft tissues can rest. I needed about 2 weeks of riding to get more comfortable in this saddle, as my sitbones experienced me sitting on them for the first time ever. After that both sitbones as well as soft tissues always feel perfect.
Ism has it's legacy when it comes to TT bikes, however they create their saddles for basically every type of riding. I use my ism saddle on my road bike, doing lots of climbing as well as numerous efforts with 90degrees bent elbows, sitting on the edge of the saddle. I believe that anybody who has numbness issues and nothing seems to work should give a try to ism saddles, as in my case it was a blessing. The only thing I would focus on is to check out their website and choose the saddle that would suit rider's riding style, as putting a pure tt style saddle on a grand fondo bike would probably not solve above mentioned issues...
@@xVertOx thanks for sharing your experience!
to answer your question at the end, there seems to be a trend going back to traditional length of saddles. well for me it allows me to adjust my position to go back and forward to choose relax/aggressive respectively
With short nosed saddles (and I tested quite a variety), I always have the feeling of falling off to the front. Moreover, as you control and steer the bike mostly with weight shift through the bum, there is material missing to press the legs against somehow. I'm a relatively high and big rider though, mabe different for the skinny types.
Yeah, that Ronin Evo was great for me. Unfortunately, I forgot my size after the first one broke. Specialized got me the other one you showed because they didn't have any Ronin's on hand. I had to ride back home. Unfortunately, I bought two 143s and they were the wrong size and past the dates to send them back when I seen I need the 155. I definitely need to get that correct size back. Some of my best KOMs were with the correct size saddle.
Second aftermarket saddle I ever bought was the Romin and It's been perfect for me. Bonus points: I found one in sky blue that perfectly matched my frame color!
I never realized how important the right saddle height is to you liking your saddle or not. Once I got that right, my range of usable saddles went up considerably. I’m not too picky, I do like a cutout and narrow but other than that I can deal. Before I was chasing saddles left and right, saddle sores, etc.
As in, you had the saddle too high? Very common issue.
@@ultimatist opposite. Too low. Part of the issue with fitting yourself is you read about how high saddle is going to wreck your back etc etc. went to see a fitter and I was about 30mm low. Oddly, same symptom, back pain from too low of a saddle. The body is amazingly adaptable albeit wrong at times.
@@10ktube yes yes, I've been in both camps. I'd pick too low over too high, it was much less painful, but agree that both can take a viable saddle and make it feel wrong. Among other issues.
I use ISM for my bikes. Track cycling lends to staying tucked and aero and my outdoor rides are long fun rides where I'm seated most of the time. Also their road bike variant saddles do differ in their shape compared to their TT saddles
I've seen some track racers use the Specialized Sitero but haven't tried it myself. I race on the Power (base model).
@@lolbubs11111 i used to run power but got some seriously bad sores when I went into a training regimen and spending a lot more time on the bike. ISM PN3.0 became my saddle of choice. My most comfortable bike is my track bike.
I had the ism on my bike and it was so comfortable and practical. I also had the s works power and it is very wide that you keep gravitating forward or you have to tilt it a lot so you slide again if not putting 250 watts. As for the Roman, it is very hard in the middle section
Thank you for considering the hip rotation!
I would add a "step saddle" to the mix for anyone interested. They are particularly good at keeping you seated in position as opposed to what many of us did as younger racers which was to slide back and forth on the saddle. It does seem from my experience much better to be seated in the "optimum position" even if the power output goes up or down etc. The creeping forward you often see even in the pro ranks is probably not helpful. But as so much of cycling still sticks to tradition for the sake of tradition many still think a flat saddle which allows that sort of forward position is a good thing etc. I am sure some will debate this however.
Been using an ISM saddle for about 10 years now for road and gravel. Just really comfy and no pressure problems even on 7+ hour rides, but curious about the Specialized Mirror tech. Based on your insightful vid I might try and find a shop that'll let me try one out to see if it's worth considering switching.
Question: as you point out, your sit bone width varies depending on how rotated your hips are. So when measuring, how are you seated? Vertical?
You made a very informative video and the presentation was great.
I would be interested to hear what you think of the Bontrager Aeolus Pro saddle given the use parameters you have just described ?
Thanks, Dave
I dont have saddle issue with my stock Giant Approach saddle on TCR, but i ventured on available short nosed saddle to give best comfort for extreme long distance ride time (duathlon/long epic rides) on tri bars. Found out ISM PN 1.1 works best for me (other candidates includes Pro Stealth vanilla and Bontrager Aeolus vanilla)
Selle Italia SLR Boost
Amen.
AliExpress has heavily inspired versions of most saddles and I've bought several to try what I would agree / disagree with, I then sell the ones i disagree with or give them out. They often even have the carbon versions themselves. I've been using a 3d printed Racework one with carbon shell and rails, 155g, I don't love it as much as I I was hoping I would, but I forget about it, which probably makes it a good saddle. Given manufacturing costs, I'll blow my dad before I spend 300 or more USD on a saddle.
TMI
Tried so many saddles. Finally landed with an SqLabs 612. Don't even notice it's there.
Wouldn't it mean that the Fizik Transiro Mistica Kium (especially the wider 141mm version) would be excellent for both criterium and triathlon/TT? It's wide and chunky on the front, has a channel and has some support at the back too if you would do some climbing with it. Plus it doesn't cost you a fortune haha.
When my local bike fitters measured my sitbones we always measured very wide sitbones (155-158mm) but funny enough, my first ever road bike's (Vitus Zenium SL VR from 2018) 138mm Vitus saddle was perfect even for 200-250 mile long rides with not too much stopping for 12-15 hours of riding. Is it possible that I have mostly been comfortable with riding in a more aero position even on the climbs and on longer rides when I didn't sit on the widest part of my sitbones?
You can also sit on a polystyrene offcut, same impression pushed in.
Im so fed up buying flucking saddles, on the sworks 3d at the moment and still trying to adjust..
I’d love to hear your opinion about (and possibly experience with) sq lab 612r or 612. Thanks for the video.
Most important takeaway from this video... get a bike fit from a professional bike fitter. Good information about lots of different saddles. But dont guess on which saddle might fit if you are new to cycling or are having issues with your undercarriage/bum. Have a pro take a look and get your bike to fit you.
Love my Power Mirror Pro saddle, I have the Ti rail version though. Think it's a good compromise to save a few bucks.
Same, and perfectly works for me
👍
In my experience most people will fit on most saddles and saddle choice is much less important than we think. If you're experiencing pain after trying many saddles, it's most likely a bikefit issue. Also the ISM has a cutout in the front because when your pelvis is rotated, like in a tt position, that's where your perineum is. Pressure on the perineum causes genital numbness, which I have experienced and do not recommend 😅
i'm still confused. if you are buying a power saddle, do you still add the extra width when you order?
hey! just noticed that your code for Stages powermeters is not working :( . Huge fan of the channel and trying to start training for some races this year!
i Bought the mirror pro saddle and it was the biggest mistake I've ever made. It is one of the most uncomfortable saddles ever I been struggling since I bought it I can not find a comfortable fit with it I've kept removing in it change the position til and everything nothing works
What software do you use to get your data overlays onto your video?
Personally I really can't get along with the specialized power, although it seems to work for a lot of people. I get a lot of chafing and it feels like it's to flat and thus physically blocking my thighs moving up and down. Saddle selection is really personal, and I don't think saddle width and ride style is the only factors to consider. I use the fizik aliante open 141mm, only one that worked for me.
Thanks Jeff. That explained a lot!
Love your channel
For me, front of the saddle is to help you steer the bike with inner thigh (with hands off) 😅
Hey guys, I need your help here. When you rotate your hips forward, how do you avoid sitting on your junk? I’ve found that if I rotate much at all everything goes numb down there and then I start to worry about ED. I have everything pulled up as high as possible inside my shorts. Serious question. No joke.
Flexibility. Almost nobody talks about how flexible you need to be to race bikes.
Ok. But let’s take an extreme example of a Tri rider. His hips have to be rotated forward, no?
Weight needs to be on your bones no matter your position. If you’re numb weight’s not on your bones
I dunno man. I’m definitely on the bones. But the soft tissue is getting squeezed between my pubic bone and the saddle nose. Any advice?
I’m no Ron Jeremy either. 😅
@@jm3280 put the nose down or don’t rotate so aggressively
ism has been great for the indoor trainer
buy a cheap ali expeess knockoff, try it out see if u like it then after u know u like the saddle pull the trigger on the legit one. I bought a cheap prologo dimension knockoff and love it
Hard to get seat that's really comfortable tried different ones
I think the front of the saddles exist solely to poke your thighs and bum when you slip trying to clip in on a rainy ride.
I use Shimano PRO Stealth
Just get a specialized power saddle.. any of them.. i found these work for MOST people and i have 2 of them, one on gravel and one on road bike.. lighter one on the roadie.
Also, no saddle would feel right if bike fitting wasn't done properly.
You never revealed your chest mount for your gro pro🤔. First comment, I think
Yeah that's a $50 saddle that costs $500. I hear the women's model is cheaper but essentially the same without the 3d printed bs
What is the front of the saddle for? It's specifically designed to catch in your shorts as you sit down again from an out of the saddle effort. Trust me, sketchy😂
Only problem - Big-S saddles are cheap (as to what Big-S pays for 'em) junk that won't last long. My friends at SMP offer test centers (along with high-quality Made-in-Italy products) so a rider can try various models to find out what works for them.
I tried the towel and aluminium thing, and I got no markings what so ever. Am I too fat for this to work? Idk, but I am pretty normal sized.
Cardboard might work better for you. Push down into it with all your weight, you need to feel the bones making a mark.
Great video thank you!
I have own several saddlers Give many to none profit Btw we have the same size sit bones . The last purcase I made was fine later realize for distances 20miles I did try Century test and it was a true nightmare realize @ 60 mile had already paifull experiance but I continue to reach my home all I can say those last 20 miles was unbearable. Of course the saddler purchase was no return that was my fault. My point is not me is Manufactures marketing promotions the problem!! Im 5'7 125 lb run several Marathons also long distance Biking!!
Nice product placement.. ; )
This is a specialized ad.
That first saddle is just awful. Who wants to sit on something that looks like a rotten tooth?
Saddles are unnecessary. Look at van Aert, he wins races without one.
B…S how many real races you won last year using your fabulous techniques??? Answer: NONE, ZERO, NIL !!! 😂😂😂
Aside from his relatively _advanced age_ (had to throw that in :-), Jeff's basically COACHING all of us...in addition to riding very competitively. Almost all the best coaches were NOT the MVP in any of their sports.
Why so haughty, @mbastos - are you regularly winning TdF stages?