Student vs Pro Saxophone - YAMAHA Edition!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
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Back with the age old instrument debate- Student vs Professional model saxophones. This time I'm featuring one brand - YAMAHA! I compare the YTS-23 with the YTS-62. Have a listen and see if you can tell which is which, and let me know which sound you prefer. Hope you enjoy!
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I think alot of the difference comes from the player, a good player can make any horn sing!
Agreed I saw another video similar to this
You don't need a professional horn to sound good
All sound great.
Both sounded great overall
Great playing man!
90% if the time I agree but I witnessed a great tenor player sound terrible. He'd had just bought the black laquer Yani and it sounded tinny compared to his Mark VI. It was a long night when he brought the Yani instead of the six to the gig.
Well duh
While the tone on a well-made student instrument can be surprisingly good, it's often forgotten that where pro instruments really make their value felt is in things like ergonomics, key fit, build quality, quality of materials, etc. Those things are usually appreciated over long periods of time.
Yup, I talk about that in my original video.
Yeah, my local service center told me that they don't service the cheap, no-brand Chinese saxophones, since the material quality is poor and there's a high chance something will break.
But you can buy like 10 of the students for the same length of time lol.
Not skipping ahead but imo #1 is a bit richer and has a little more character, but honestly the difference is so minute. I think the real takeaway is you're a damn good tenor player
Yep. He is good.
Same. The low razzle and high dazzle on #1 seemed better. Nice playing!
I was using my phone to listen and there was almost No difference.
It's the player. A great player (like you) can make them All sound great.
Thanks!
I would swear the 2 was the pro.
I agree, same for me
Same
YTS-23!!! YES 👍🏼🙌🏼
I couldn't care less about the "tone" - your body, the reed, mouthpiece, ligature and neck are responsible for >95% of it. Which one was easier to keep in tune? How did each of them feel under your hands? Are the ergonomics on the 62 better? Will any of them get me closer to the raw speed and virtuosity of our lord and saviour Kenny G?
Kenny G man he's not in the top 10 of the all-time greats sax players
@@dukecurry5523 heresy
I prefered the YTS-23 ... I'm baffled, I thought it was the other way around, the sound trough my studio monitors is very close ... I'm sure the feel will be different though
Agreed
I too - listening on Alesis M1.
Me too. A bit richer, warmer sound, the 62 sounded a little thinner and lighter.
So called experts: before the reveal: "I think the professional one was #2. You could tell the darkness and deepness of tone....
So called experts: after the reveal: "I could have told you #1 was the pro model, you can tell by the partials and the overtones coming from the brass and the triple annealing and resonance that comes straight from my ass, etc, etc... blah, blah, blipity blah.
I liked #1, and as soon as #2 sounded, it sounded tinty, there was more body, richness, and soul in #1. To me the difference was immediate. Is it worth the price difference, I ain't gonna speak on that.
Better sax just amplifies the players natural abilities, compliments them
I prefer the 62 by a country mile, the 23 sounds thin and green in comparison
Bottom line is ur a great player overall. You don't need a professional horn to sound good. I thought that number 2 was the professional until I was proven wrong. Great job man! I love where you traded 8's it sounded good!
I have strong opinion about this kinda of stuff. I don't wanna trigger the sax community- but honestly the best horn is the one that you own. I've heard great players play on sewage plumbing and they all say the same thing to me when I ask, "I just like how it feels".
I think that's all that really matters in the end.
100%!
Truth. I’ve had the same horns forever and never really felt the need to switch.
While the sound of the two is pretty close, there are other things to consider between a student model and a pro model. The 'feel' of the Mark VI in your hands is undeniable. That is, the key work has a very solid feel an that translates into an ergonomic interface with your hands. Secondly, there's something about the way a pro horn (not all but many) 'speak'. That is the horn's ability to immediately and with little effort, produce sound. You some cheaper horns take considerable effort to 'initiate' the sound (of course the mouthpiece/reed setup effects this but when comparing apples to apples), the play-ability can be significant. A better player like Pollack can overcome the limitations much easier, but most quality instruments of any type (trumpet, piano, sax etc.), the 'feel' is where the pro instrument starts to show its stuff. Cheers to all who make music!
I thought they both sounded pretty much the same in the higher register but #2 more defined in lower register.
This makes my wallet very happy. listened to heaps of different comparisons and always liked the student one more :)
Hey Dave! I thought number one sounded the best but it was very close. My belief is that you can have the greatest Sax equipment in the world but if you don’t sound good as a player, none of that matters. 😄🎷👍
Number 1 just sounded richer to me, #2 a little thinner.
I was definitely fooled. I thought #1 had more sizzle, #2 darker. Both great, obviously. The Yamaha 23 series is so solid, everyone should have a few around just in case!
Number 2 sounds smoother with a slightly richer tone.
I believe.... if I buy any product costing 3.000, 4.000 euros or more, instead of a 1.000 one, the manufacturer makes very clear where the gap cost goes. I believe manufacturers have a good marketing study that allows them to sell saxophones costing 3 or 4 times more than the "student" ones, where the difference is so little we should be paying probably 200, 300 euros plus for the more expensive one.... They just call the less expensive "student", then put on top a few extra bling bling, and make us to believe it's worth the money.
Interesting video and great playing! As you know, there are all sorts of reasons we pick the horn(s) we play, so this is a useful argument, but so much of it comes down to personal preference and perception. Many years ago, Yamaha sent me an unstamped prototype for evaluation. I gigged it and really liked it. I was aware it wasn't a top of the range 'custom' horn, but was so surprised when they told me it was their prospective student model (it became the YAS 275). Sadly they wanted it back. Now I play a gold plated YAS 875 EX. It's a great horn, but is it worth the nearly 10 times the price of the student model? Actually, for me, yes it is. Even though I'm happy to gig a cheaper horn, tiny differences make a difference to the way we play. We spend silly money on mouthpieces and reeds etc, but I believe it's worth it if we perceive it makes us better... I hope that makes sense! Keep up the good work.
I got it right, and one of the main reasons is because on both the higher and lower registers, it was louder on #2 which could mean it's harder to get high notes out and needed more air to get out well, which I definitely find to be the case on student instruments so I guessed #2 was the YTS-23
I don’t appreciate much difference between them, but being a little picky #2 (the cheaper one) sounded slightly better to me.
Yamaha horns are made extraordinarily well. Honestly, if you're a quality player and have a good mouthpiece and reed, then the average listener would not know the difference and in the end thats all that matters.
Personally the audience doesn't care if your a semi professional player cheaper is always best if your not touring ...
Man... The 23 sounds better... lol ( for jazz definitvely better )
I liked the pro horn (just going from the "blind" test). That horn had a little more bite to the sound. I wouldn't necessarily say it was "Better" but it was more of a sound I gravitate towards.
I appreciate the feedback!
I actually prefer the sound of the student horn..lol! The "pro" horn sounded edgy and the student horn was nice and warm.
1 sounded better to me..Fuller more powerful sound.Sounded like the notes really popped out of the instrument.
i own the YTS 23 and paid only $ 450 for it . As a former professional saxophonist i say there is no difference in the sound . However. its the Player not the horn that sounds difference .
I use a Runyon Mouthpiece and a # 2 Fiber Cell Reed and its a very bright sound .
bobby G..
Ok i was really worried that in the end i would had not reconize the Student one from the professional one cause they were very similar, but i did. The interesting point is that the difference beetween each one is very thin and that's because most of the work is done by the player. You can probably hear the differences better only if you hear someone playing live, professional Horns are more powerful and keep the harmonics better, but with a mic on this difference is flattened; still, in the end i think the player is the most important thing; i've played live with people who had a YAS-62 and my YAS-25 still sounded much better and much more powerful, so just stop buying and start practice more often.
I absolutely adore the YAS-25.
I was trying to be super critical, I honestly thought the student model was the pro! 😅
After reviewing the comments below, I am not embarrassed to say that I honestly couldn't tell much of a difference! I'm assuming you are using the same mouthpiece and reed to play both to get the similar sound.
the only diference is that one maybe lasts longer than the other, the sound comes from the player and having a good reed (:
They sounded the same until you played "Straight No Chaser" - then #1 sounded better. But I must add, then difference was minimal.
Your skills and talent essentially obscure the differences between the two, amazing demo! Thanks! Rocket 🚀
Thanks so much!
This X1000
The #2 horn student horn sound better for me.
Crazy right??
It sound better for me too. However I was not playing it. What the player feel could be completly different. Recently I played on my former sax (low cost brand) and it plays well. But once I re-played the same stuff on my Selmer Mark VII it was like night and day for ME as a player. What was the feeling of the player for that trial ?
Yamaha makes student horns at such a high level that they might as well be pro compared to a lot of other student models out there.
They both sound great to me nice sound by the way man! 🎷
True a good player can make any horn sound great, but considering the huge price difference, it's hard to see $2600 more for the pro.
That surprised me when you revealed them as I actually preferred the tone of the YTS-23 a little more but I didn't hear much of a difference and I wouldn't say the 62 was better. I do wonder if going a little higher end and comparing the 23 against maybe a Custom Z or 875ex would show a bit more of a difference. What this does show is that a lot has to do with the player, not necessarily what they are playing as long as the saxophone is built and maintained well and sounds good to start with.
I compared what I could get my hands on - if someone wants to lend me some other horns I'd be glad to do another video!
There is a very nice video of a guy comparing a 23 with a mark VI I really can't tell much difference in sound if any. th-cam.com/video/6ooPTXG1q10/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=StantawnKendrick
I have play for 50years and I can tell you with certainty,. The horn is only 10% of the sound. 90% of it is the player. I liked #2 better. Had a richer sound in those in between spots, the little subtly notes. Greater sound over full range of the "AX". You play very, well. With a solid tone. I'll subscribe.
Thank you! I appreciate that
Next video should be “are pro mouthpieces a waste!”
No way. Anything under $40 is cheap plastic and sounds like it. A pro mouthpiece on a cheap horn will make it sound better. A cheap mouthpiece on a Selmer will make it sound like a cheap sax.
Premiere by Hiite is under $40 (for alto, and tenor), and its a solid mouthpiece. Heard good reviews on the bari one too. It is unusually cheap though. A $49 or less mp (Yamaha 4C) vs an Ottolink or something similarly priced would be really cool to hear I think.
There’s a lot of BS on this subject. Companies push their MP as having this and that and people actually believe it. It doesn’t have to cost $300 to sound great.
I am a beginner, I play an Otto Link metal "Super" tone master 7*, already the sound is smooth combined with Legere reed 2.5.
They are definitely not...once a you try a pro-level mouthpiece you'll be a believer. It's simply an upgrade in how the reed seals, how the mouthpiece blows, and the ease of playing throughout the register, including lows, mids, highs and altissimo. On my Yanagisawa T901 (Pro horn) I tried (all 7*) 3 Otto Links (STM, NY and FL) as well as 2 Rico Metalites (M5, M7) and a 5 Yanagisawa. Of those, the Yanagisawa plastic piece was the best, although the opening was too small...then I tried Theo Wanne Durga 2 and Gaia 2. The Gaia 2 was "WOW!!!!...so balanced, free blowing, amazing tone...I decided to keep it and sell everything else. It is worth every penny. I'm selling off all the others. Someone listening to those pieces may well have a different preference, but behind the horn, the Wanne Gaia 2 was the best for me. And...I still sound like ME no matter what mouthpiece I use :( Too many people spend money thinking they'll get "chops in a box", LOL.
Wierd, i thought #2 was the professional sax. For some reason I prefer the sound of the student model better.
glad im not the only one go figure
I noticed on Straignt No Chaser #1 sounded notably fuller, especially at the extremes of the range. #2 just sounded downright thin relative to #1 in the extremes and #2 simply sounded a little sloppier. Maybe a response thing was in play there. Both sounded great overall though, and my playing can't come close, so know that this isn't meant as judgement, just observation
I liked the tone on the YTS - 23 slightly better.
I liked the tone better on the YAS-23 SAX too.
Got #1 right in the first take. Sound wise rather minimal difference. But the main differences between pro and student horns is how long they stay adjusted. All the student horns I played the last 40 years had rather weak material for the mechanics and went out of adjustment rather quick. I’m talking of months compared to years.
Funny, I've done blind ABing between YAS 61 and a YAS 23 and it was much easier to tell the difference there than with the tenors. I was having a hard time telling when you switched without looking
I could tell the difference instantly.
Neither!........😁 just joking! Sound great on both! I’ve been through the selmer snob stage, get a working horn and heck the rest!😡👊🏾 I have a mark 6 , 66r and a custom 875 and out of all three, I like all three!😎
interestingly i thought the 23 handled the low notes in straight no chaser better but the high notes on the 23 didn’t sound as full and clean as the 62. could’ve just been the take though
# 2 Sax sounded better than the # 1 pro Sax,. It had a richer sound, the # 1 pro Sax had a brighter, more treble like sound, and I was actually fooled
The main difference is the skill of the player, a good intermediate or professional player can make any horn sound good, however pro horns typically have better keywork and are easier to play
Who does number two work for? They both sound good because you sound good.
Probably worth noting-- you're comparing the best student horn money can buy with one of the best pro horns money can buy. I liked the YTS-23 sound better, but that's a great horn and both sounded very similar.
Thanks so much for this video. For me it was number one, but not because of tone, they are similar. But in terms of breathing and technique it sounds easier on number one, whilst Dave seems to be working harder with number two. I've got a YTS-21 and tone is pretty good but you can't play "lazy" with it. So my guess is the YTS-23 would be the same.....now it makes me want to hunt down a YTS-62, I'm at the age I want to be a little bit lazy some days :-)
My conclusion is - the player makes ALL the difference. I thought #2 was the pro horn because u it seemed easier to blow, and had a bigger tone at least to my ears. It seemed to have more harmonics as well. But then a gd player can make any horn sound good 👍🏼
Wow! I think even if you play on a wood saxophone, you would sound fantastic!
I appreciate that!
Wow! I liked #2 better.
At first #1 sounded a little stuffy and preferred the sound of #2, but as the video went on I couldn’t hear any noticeable difference between the two on my tablet speakers. It’s more player than horn when it comes to sound, I guess, but it sure is nice to have a couple of high-end axes in the arsenal, if it’s in the budget. 🎷😎👍
Forget about the saxes, the one in the middle sounded the best! Great playing man!
Thanks!
I was right in my guess its not really that noticeable to the average listener..owner of a YAS 23.
I did pick right, but definitely started wondering as it went on. Very little, if any difference in sound at all.
I will say, as someone who did jump from a YAS280 to a YTS82Z, that it does feel different (not just alto to tenor) to play, particularly the ergonomics. Was it worth the $5k difference? Don't know about that.
But in the end, I guess it comes down to what it's worth to you
I am just learning and I read sheet music and until I can get to the point of reading sheet music and be able to play any song after a few practices I feel a student model is just fine for me. I have so many song books my place looks like a song book store everywhere I turn in my chair there is a song book on my keyboard on the keys laid out on the board on the book rack of the keyboard on my computer desk on printer two music stands not one but clip on lights holding book open on the other. I did not hear the difference between the two horns but then again look at who is playing them a pro sax player who can most likely tie a string as a ligature and make the sax sound great. One of my song books is "techniques of the saxophone" volume 1. It has all the chords of all the notes up and down and I can play any page fluently and now I know three easy by memory. Thanks Dave. Pete
I like the sound of number 2 more.
Sounds like my B&H 400 (student model made in the 80’s, I think) :-)
I honestly thought the 23 sounded better but the 62 had a better sound up high
goes to show that when some store sells a young student a Yamaha student horn alto or tenor and say "This will get you by for 2 years" its a lie. I'm not saying the pro horn isn't great but you can certainly play professionally with a YTS23 without a problem.
100%
Vladimir Lopez has saved my money thx
I could tell the difference, especially in the low register, but really, in every register, the student horn is just thinner sounding. Great Vid! Thanks!
thanks so much!
A gente percebe muita diferença nos graves onde o 62 tem mais volume e mais harmônicos. No geral percebe-se que o PRO é mais volumoso e cheio porém o student é um excelente sax mas perde para o 62 nas articulações e dinâmica que neste são mais proeminentes do que naquele. O som do 62 é bem mais vivo!!!
Sounding great Dave! I'm always surprised how consistently dialed in the Yamaha student horns are. I actually prefer the bright sound than some modern pro horns. One really nice thing about the Yamaha saxophones is the quality control straight from the factory. There's also a great video of Bob Reynolds playing on an older student Conn and (as you can imagine) he sounds amazing. th-cam.com/video/qS1gtxUfW7Y/w-d-xo.html
23 is not bad for a student sax
They both sounded good on the low end but when you started getting mid range and higher the 62 sounded more full to me, but I am just getting started back taking lessons. My sax falls right in between I have a YTS 52.
The difference is so clear
#1 is the best
YTS 62 is so warmer sound
I’ll take the player 🤣
No matter what I think pro horns are way better hands down
Where the heck do you get a YTS-23 for only $400?
Did it retail for that much originally?
No idea on retail...I just know that people sell them used for around that currently
@@DavePollack wow really? all I see them posted for is $600-700 when they're beat up and then up to $900-$1000 for better conditions and possibly upgraded mouthpieces.
Personally, from the first comparisons I recognized the 62 from the 23, I really like the 62, balanced on all registers and it sounds less "fluty" and three-dimensional on the higher octaves. Having said that, they are both splendid instruments, I am a happy owner of the intermediate version (yts 475) and appreciate the whole series which has a super quality/price ratio.
Second Was better :)I have sold my conn 21m from 90s ,and bought a Taiwanese Antigua for ergonomic keys.But can not find the sound like it is in conn.I am really disappointed.Why new saxes don’t sound like old ones ?I think old saxes are more solid or something.also new Antigua 4348 is so bright with the same mouthpiece used on conn.I am confused.How to make new sax sound like the old conn ?thanks
I thought #1 sounded more open in your upper register and richer in the lower register. Nice work on both horns and agree with prior comments re: build quality and personal preference. Always great to know you can buy a Yammy at whatever level and it will sound great.
One also needs to consider the construction and durability. I bought my 220,XXX Mark VI brand new in ‘74 and in 20 years only had it in the shop 3 times. Now approaching 45+ years old she’s showing some of her age but will last another 20 easy. I have students who rent Bundy II saxes from the same era and they need to be scrapped, not rented. I also have a retired 1933 Selmer Supersax alto that I happily played for 25 years. Pro horns are built to last. Student horns, not so much.
To me the 23 sounds better. You are a good player on both.
Thanks!
I did guess right, but I feel like I based my decision on some arbitray set of notes where the tone sounded slightly more "thin" (comparatively) I guess? So don't count my decision probably. The seeming difference was so minor to my ear, even after knowing the identities of the saxes that I couldnt ever justify spending on the marked up price. especially with China rebranding the over-produced parts of these horns as their own, and selling them cheaper.
no surprise here
Sorry what model of mouthpiece does the tenor yamaha yts 23 use this video? Thanks for the reply
I'm using my 10mfan "Classic" size 7**
@@DavePollack metal? Ebanite?
Bought a $350 sax, learned, love the instrument and now certain spending a few grand is worth while. My teacher was shocked how well the cheap sax played and sound wise not bad. Not buying into the Mk VI romance b/s. For me a music instrument is about how they sound and how they play. The rest is ego. There's always elitists in anything you do. Chops count more than anything else.
First, you are obviously holding back. Why? You can't possibly blow that middle of the road and really get a good comparison. I think you would get a better sound on both horns if you if you played with a little more, what's the word I'm looking for, fortitude maybe. And what mic are you using to record? Is it your phone? I hope not.
Second, Yamaha makes a pretty good student horn. The brass is probably the same in both horns which means they will most likely sound the same, have similar resonance. There are some features on the pro models that make for better playability. IMO
I didn't have a preference and I'm wearing good headphones.
i was surprised I like the buzzier sound of the YTS 23
I like num 2
What about construction of each instrument? Ribbed vs post? Intonation, is it easier or harder to get on the extreme range of each instrument? A professional needs a rock solid instrument that can deal with the abuse it will get, on bandstands, in its case while travelling, when girls fondle it, and daily practice and gigs. This is what I want to know. Tone comes from the player (80%), the mouthpiece (15%), and the neck (5%) all of which can be upgraded and kept for a player's lifetime.
What year 62? What year 23? what state of repair? I bet if you thew a more modern neck on that 62 it would open the sound up. Also - He played the student model like pro, and the pro model like a student , IMO
The # 1 was my choice for pro.
Fact is that unless you concentrate and hear carefully one cannot differentiate.
Wow! Competely fooled. The student Yamaha sounded more focused and with a large sweet spot. It has a voice where the Pro sounded like a nice saxophone. Also, it sounded like your fingers had an easier time playing the YTS-23. I'm getting a YTS-23.
I figured out #1 was the YTS-62 but the difference was so minute that it does not justify the price difference. I felt the lower octave had a richer sound than the YTS-23. In a band environment, you really wouldn't be able to hear the difference.
"Too bad he's playing that YTS-23 again; he's so much better on the '62".....
Never happen.
I liked the YTS-23 better. You played them both very well.
A Fiat will drive the same as a Mercedes if you are just using it for grocery trip.
A pro driver can definitely make a Fiat drive like a Mercedes around the residence area, and can do it better than a student in a Hiway..
If you need to push the limit, get the pro version. If you have limited resource, get the student version or consider a used Pro if you can find one in good condition.
I mean if you get a Yamaha horn instead of a crappy Chinese brand then yeah it’ll be the horn but like everyone says, it’s the player. Also cause of reed and mouthpiece.
1 is pro and 2 student model, the first is most rich sound!
much like most instruments, its not hard or costly to make it sound good, i think that high-end instruments elevate the instrument in other areas besides the sound. How long it'll last the quality of its parts, how good it look, how well made it was how comfortable it is, etc. With electric instruments like guitars you can also add more to the instrument such as extra pick-ups, pick up configurations, floating bridges or even killswitches that can add on to the value. All you REALLY need is a mid-grade instrument, nothing fancy nothing special but if you can you might as well get something a bit more expensive if you really like it, but if you only have access to a cheaper option you can always sound as good as everyone else.
I used to play a purple logo 62 series, funny I did like #1 a bit better. Seemed to have a little more core. Interesting how close they were