The Downfall of Storytelling in Call of Duty Zombies
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Modern Warfare 3 Zombies is already dangerously close to breaking a tradition held for 10+ years of past Zombies maps.
Let's talk about how the Zombies story started, and the knife-edge it finds itself on today.
Please leave a like if you enjoyed the video and want more Call of Duty Zombies video essay style thinkpieces from me in future! Maybe even suggest a topic in the comments 👀
🥞 Follow Milo here:
🐦 / mrroflwaffles
📸 / milo_bc
💸 / mrroflwaffles
Holding a community's hand through a simple 'Good Vs. Evil' story. A community that literally deciphers morse codes from random flashing lights and a hidden piece of paper in less than a day
We are the good activision is the evil
@@ProdLucio fr tho
To be honest though we kinda brought that upon ourselves, though Treyarch certainly didn't help. The hardcore fans absolutely loved the easter eggs, which made them solve the puzzles faster and a sort of frenzy began. Which in turn led to Treyarch making harder ones, and then that cycle kept feeding itself until Treyarch probably saw a decline in people doing the easter eggs (or the game numbers, or zombie numbers), either due to people losing interest or the puzzles getting too hard/tedious/convoluted. So then they do a complete 180 due to losing numbers either in zombies, the game as a whole, or just specifically the easter eggs, which could also be attributed to the later game's qualities in the other areas of the game like single player or multiplayer, to be fair.
@@ProdLuciothen playtesters must be the zombies crew fighting activisions questionable code 💀🧌💀🧌
As a zombies veteran I laughed out loud at how good some of your points were. You should be lead story developer lmao
How do we make this happen ?
I would love what he'd do but having to deal with the requirements of Microsoft/Activision/"modern gaming" would burn him out
"Hey Milo this story is great, but we can't have 4 main characters because that limits the amount of skins we can sell"
"Hey Milo we need you to make the story 'more accessible' for 'broader audiences'"
@@gansotonto I understand. It wouldn't just be story ideas and world creation. Somewhere in the multiverse, activation is actually cool
HIRE THE FANS!!!!!! HIRE THE FUCKING FANS!"""" FIRE THE HANS!!!
@@ginger6757In that universe we get Tony Hawk’s Underground remastered sheesh.
Milo’s been going crazy this last few weeks and I’m so here for it
He got that crazy Professor vibes... but the crazy professors mostly know what the f they are talking about, so let him preach!
he hates wm3 so much if you saw that
@@threaper8262that’s not what he said at all lmao
@Joshbob567 he speaks in code so if you deciphered it ,then yeah that's pretty much exactly what he said
@@andykod77Speaks in code? He throughly communicated a very nuanced stance. Obviously he isn't a huge fan of the outbreak route but to try and reduce his hour long conversation to "he hates it lol" is so lazy and weird
I can tell Milo has started leaning more to doing videos he enjoys making rather than just focusing on what he thinks we want to see, which I hope he taps into even more
Milo isn't crazy, (probably) just a fellow human being like some of us here
What bothers me the most, is the fact that we probably wouldn't have this discussion if Treyarch (and i guess Activision) kept their promisse and continued/finished the Chaos Storyline.
They said "fuck it" and revived the Aether Storyline for no reason. Which in my perspective completely disrespects both storylines.
Rev ending was honestly shit, Tag is way better.
@OpticHamster69 both ending arent what we wanted at the time. But i made peace with tag ending. And even the VAs thanking us for there time with the community. I just wish that was the end of at least THIS story.
@@OpticHamster69 Rev ending was just "oh it's over" because Dr Monty snapped his fingers and said so.
Tag ending was actually pretty good. Lacking animations or a good last map, but it was very heartwarming and the VAs making peace with their characters and thanking us... it was beautiful.
Until Cold war fucked it up
@@Timtamdajellyman well Tag at least gave the story some sort of closure and ended the cycle instead of the events just happening over and over until no end like Rev.
@badcatgames783 Yeah, that's what I liked about Tag. The story comes to an end and gives closure, seeing how we learn that Richtofen only wanted to do the right thing of getting rid of all the nonsense that happens but couldn't come to the realization/didn't want to commit to closing all the timeliness in order for it to end and have everyone die, etc
The way you opened this vid with describing the mystery of early zombies was incredible. It doubles as a way to convey how to explain how to paint a mystery for the player, and I can draw similarities to other experiences I've had when exploring games
Milo has been killing it with his videos lately. He is single-handedly keeping the zombies community alive. This man deserves to be the official zombies community manager.
That is facts 🔥🔥
That is facts 🔥🔥
Idk about that statement, I feel like Lex and probably Noah have been consistent with zombies content. I mean Lex basically makes zombie vids almost daily so what you said is a hot take 💀
@@Aether_Rxse yeah that’s a fair point that lex and Noah upload daily but they haven’t spoken up for the zombies community like Milo has in my opinion, don’t get me wrong they definitely have too just not to the extent that Milo has (perhaps the reason he wasn’t invited to COD next 👀 controversial opinion) and I’m not throwing shade at either lex or Noah here but they both upload reactions to zombies speed runs which feels like all the time it seems. Noah just does customs which is nice to see him supporting the community map creators don’t get me wrong. Lex’s content has gone a bit stale which is no fault of him more so there’s no new zombies content to cover and has reverted to posting EE tutorials. My point is that Milo seems like the only one calling treyarch out on their bullshit and properly going into detail and making arguments for both sides of the hardcore and casual fans while also pushing forward the fact that this new stuff doesn’t feel like zombies and more so that the hardcore round based fans are being neglected. I feel like Milo is doing the best for the zombies community rn and I think that’s what I_O246 probably means
@@Aether_Rxse they can also be community members, but Milo has been showing his honest opinions and he has been trying to hear all sides. Early on when black ops 4 was out, I could see Milo enjoying the franchise less and less but was not really having the discussion about it, he was ranting. Noah can’t really share his true opinions because he doesn’t want to lose his relationship with cod, and activision.
I miss the cryptic stuff of the old story. The cyphers, the obscure EEs, the radios scattered around the map that posed new questions, etc.
It feels like the new story is just babying us
It feels so spoon fed dude. The EE is just handed to you now. It can’t even be classified as an EE anymore, there’s literally fucking objective markers!!
Bring back Jimmy Zelinksi
@@OwNAvenged hellll no.
@@imabipolarbear9324 I preferred his story-telling waaaay more than anything post BO2.
@@OwNAvenged lol he literally didn’t even know what to do with the story, said so himself with BO2. And the only two good maps from that game were both of Blundell’s. 🤣
Just the downfall in general…
I miss when zombies was actually filled with funny characters and lots of story. Lots of the old devs left, so everyone who made what we loved is gone.
Sad but true
Ain't had a good zombies experience since bo3
Wrong
@@SchwackedOk.
You nailed it 🎯
Part of the zombies charm was for the community to talk about theories and figure out what’s going on… it’s the mystery that’s lacking now.
The main quest Easter egg was the second thing that brought the community together… again involving mystery and figuring it out together.
I remember having conversations with my friends about all the different theories. Good times.
Sick. I never realized the community was just dummies wanting red herrings.
@@rydz656 lmao. Back in the day there was no information so everything was speculation until things were confirmed. And Easter eggs were alot more cryptic then they are now
@@foxyfarhad The issue is when we get to the heart of the mystery you destroy 90% of theories and 90% of the fanbase with it, because their theories wasn't correct and the correct answer was either too obvious or too random for the sake of being random.
@@thechugg4372 I see your point but I’m not sure getting to the heart of a mystery destroys 90% of the fanbase. It’s exciting when we figure things out…I think the downfall of zombies was a few things:
1. Getting rid of the core characters we loved. The banter between each other, the cryptic hints they would give (hints now just flat out tell the player where to go and what to do)
2. Up until revelations, every single map that came out was unique and completely different than other maps. They even had a special beast gun for each map which made it unique. -- looking at the trailer for the new game, we see a lot of old recycled zombies from the past and I don’t think they will release new maps with each season which will make it stale.
3. The main Easter egg hunts - what exciting time with the community it was - watching Noah and Milo and the gang try to solve and be the first while the community got involved… that won’t come back with this new game.
This is so sentimental man. So much time spent watching zombies theories, even tried my hand at some. This is a true walk down memory lane, I feel like I’m at my mommas house again, even though I’m in my apartment and she’s been gone for one year now. Thank you Milo for continuing to do what you do.
The whole Zakhaev vs. Richtofen comparison had me thinking about one of my favorite cutscenes in Zombies: the mind-bending end to the Shadows of Evil easter egg. You just finished exploring this new map in this new time and place with all these new enemies, and out of nowhere this familiar face jumps out of a portal and is like "Hey, I need this important relic. I literally don't have time to explain. I need to fix the universe. Thanks!" Like that was mind-blowing to me. I miss those days when a few seconds of showing a particular character or object could generate hundreds of questions. That's why I'm not interested in new Zombies content. I don't need my hand held going through a REVEAL TRAILER of all things.
I would love to see a new zombies storyline in the future but the aether story will always be the best!
if Treyarch had just given Aether its proper finish by allowing BO4 to be all aether and then brought Chaos in later, we would've been probably approaching the Revelations equivalent of that storyline if not a new one all together
I would love the chaos story to continue as originally promised 💀
@@letubbzy4103 same but it feels like people who actually want that to happen are in the minority so I think it'll likely never happen
@@EinsNiemand"minority"
Most of the people don't care about the new storyline or don't care anymore about zombies at all. From what i've seen, at least half of the people who actually love zombies still, wants Chaos back.
The actual problem is that the people who originally worked on Chaos doesn't work at Treyarch anymore so that's a bummer.
@@Lynch2507 aether got its proper finish with tag der toten.
You put it into the best words possible, the zombies community is so lucky to have big voices like yourself to speak up for it and actually be talking the most sense. Keep up the great uploads Milo 🔥
for me, it went downhill when the apothicons were brought in. All the conspiracy stuff and real world events like the great leap forward made it juicy. It was a great time :)
So the downfall is bo3?
Would you say that aliens don't fit in zombies?
I actually agree a lot with this, I just lost interest when it went from gritty, grungy horror with alien scifi elements to "epic heroic" stuff + dragons
@pet_silencieu115 when it comes to the story yes. The game itself was still fun to play but without a good story it sadly became an arcade game to me
same, I feel like the horror creepy aspect was dropped a lot in bo3, which I continue to miss even now. Still love to play zombies just miss that old time scary feel yk
This might get a bit abstract but bear with me. Essay incoming…
Environmental storytelling was utilized a great amount in the earlier zombies. I think it's interesting how a shocking amount of writers or directors think you need to tell people everything. I think personally the reason there's so much telling instead of showing nowadays is linked to propaganda and how these things are made (they are also not viewed as art pieces but products) but also lack of faith in the audiences intelligence or just plain conceitedness in their own intelligence.
Part of the fun of being a reader, player, or audience is putting pieces together. Not to mention it feels more organic that way instead of having exposition dumps, even if exposition can be a valid tool if used properly.
Zombies alludes to many things and actually rewards exploration and player curiosity. Basically the mode rewards you for using your brain which is an amazing irony in a mode about zombies.
The storyline was also great and tackled many heavy themes, and even if it seemed like some schizo stuff, it amazingly had historical backing. I don't know about you, but the stuff I learned about the nazi regime from researching stuff due to zombies was way more interesting then anything I learned back in high school. Like the Vril-ya, Die Glocke, the Black Sun, Argartha, Wonder Weapons, the search for ancient artifacts. It seems like some wacko conspiracy stuff but a lot of it is real. And I believe it ties into what zombies really got right. It married myth and history.
It leaned more into myth and fantasy later on, mostly departing from the horror mad scientist vibe, in turn becoming less grounded, which some people didn't like but I'd argue with the help of the occult references it was always there as an undertow. The existential horror was residually still there but instead it tackled existential themes with various references to mythology. I think it also reveals the genius of zombies in a way. Inevitably in its depth and existential stakes you find mythological and religious themes in its narrative. The zombie itself can be seen as a metaphor for a nihilistic person. I think it's why the idea of zombies has made a resurgence in recent years. But the symbolism in zombies inevitably emerges. And I think it may even make the claim that mythology applies to general history. Which is why I think zombies transcends simple militaristic narratives in most Call Of Duty's.
But a basic gestalt is there is an underlying hidden order in the chaos… Which I think people loved to explore and is true for many aspects of life. And maybe it even revealed a profound meaning that emerged from the chaos of the narrative.
Another problem with modern zombies is a feel like the characters are not memorable. But let's be honest, will the old characters ever be topped? Probably not. But old Treyarch did a fantastic job of making us interested or invested in characters in one off maps. I'd say Mob Of The Dead comes to mind (Victus is a mixed bag).
Also an underrated point is difficulty. People weren't great back then since we were all new players, but the round counter was a measurement of skill and the natural inclination of many players to get better was there, whether to get to a higher round for egoic boasting or just the satisfaction of growing in skill. Not to mention, the small RNG aspects of the mode that give it replayability, and the satisfying growth in strength as a player alongside the increasing demand of the strength and ferocity of the zombies. All of it was a recipe for a masterpiece. I feel like with this new mode it doesn't do any of that. If you enjoy it and have fun with it, more power to you. But to me, its just more generic, bland, and boring. Admittedly, I haven't played anything past BO4. But instead of moving on in a different direction they cling to the past to cash in on nostalgia and their old golden egg. Do the mystery box or wall Weapons make sense thematically anymore? Is that really all the veteran players mean to them?
They want to catch lightning in a bottle again, and I would honestly go so far as to say without understanding what made zombies so great. They're kicking a soulless dead corpse that won't reanimate…
A song comes to mind. You know the line lmfao.
K.
@@BoogerBoy1027 u rite
What a great breakdown of the mode mate, I don't think I could've explained to any other person on some forum like the cod zombies reddit where people are defending this modern day slop they call a "video game" lol. The 2 biggest and most simplest things to me that matter in cod zombies was 1. Passion, this is the most important aspect to me, it doesn't have to be the most amazing story line or mythology or historical connections of the mode to real life, but something where it feels like the devs genuinely TRIED to make something new and innovative, for example IW zombies.
I know alot of people didn't like it when it released especially during bo3 craze ( me included ). But after deciding to play all the dlc's/ zombie maps for the game I loved it. It didn't have any sort of storyline or deep meaning that the treyarch games had, but uk what it did have? Charm and passion for creativity in their map design and gameplay. I just don't understand how anyone can look at mw3 zombies and can't see that the mode is a glorified XP weapon grinder with the most bare minimum effort put in, THE MAP IS LITERALLY PORTED OVER FROM FUCKIN WARZONE LIKE COME FUCKIN ON.
And for the 2nd most important thing in cod zombies? It's what you said near the end a 'challenge'. I absolutely hate everything about cold war zombies and everything onwards it's a complete fuckin joke of a mode that can be played by brain dead toddlers with dyslexia. The lack of any challenge whatsoever is what disappoints me the most, even bo3 makes me pissed off with how easy it is to survive (bo4 included), BUT uk what these 2 games are really good at? Their easter eggs for dedicated players and those always give me a great challenge and tons of replayability. It's the reason why bo1 has out of nowhere become one of my favourite cod games for zombies BECAUSE of it's incredibly hard round difficulty trying to survive despite not having very good easter egg runs.
But challenge isn't just dying out in cod it's dying everywhere in the online video game atmosphere. For example one of my most played games of all time Destiny1/ 2. Destiny 1 had been one of my most favorite games of all time despite lacking content on release and it's 'questionable' releases of cut out content in the dlc's because it GAVE ME A CHALLENGE and what did I get for completing the hardest modes in the game? exclusive armour and weapons and all kinds of good loot.
Destiny 2 has absolutely killed rewarding good players for doing anything that requires more than a minimum 10 IQ. Master raids? why do that when u can get all the gear from doing the normal version of the raid ur not missing anything from not doing the master version. Master dungeons to get the best min/max armour in the game? No point pay 10 dollars for the season and play most braindead easy activities to instantly get the best armour in the game.
Honestly yeah, Cold War Zombies feels like I'm only playing to get camos on one gun at a time, feeling like a chore more than an actual experience in a world of conspiracy and fantasy
@socksfc4162 Some people like the grind, which fair enough. But to me, if I'm going to grind, I need to enjoy the game. It has to have a meaning more than just for the sake of the grind. I think BO3 did an okay job on progression. Red Hex was a cool camo. The other camos weren't great, though. Except for the Pack-a-Punch camos which became available later- those were fuckin' awesome. You could do Gobblegum loadouts which fit thematically and were a nice addition if admittedly some were a little broken. But it was fun. And you could earn Liquid Divinium pretty easily to get stuff, and the best part is the Gumballs weren't required to play. Overall it wasn't incredible, but it was something neat. Now it's just a grocery list. Endless tasks. It's just fast food gaming. Rehashed and uninspired and sometimes with the cherry on top being paid progression.
It’s so damn awesome just hearing Milo’s passion for Zombies. Feels like the BO3-4 days
lol y’all sound like bots
@@MrAjking808 Ya mum
BO3 was peak zombies. I miss those days 2015-2016
BO3 was the last time I played zombies with passion. Anything after that I didn't feel like investing the time.
@@saveyourhero3307 wasn't a huge fan of the BO3. I liked it but just dealing with all the secret shit was frustrating.
RIGHT! milo hit the nail on the head. this is exactly why the new mode is unapealing to me. its not just the gameplay. the marketing tells me theres nothing for me to do in the game. This also reminds me of the reocccuring concept that is being brought up online of the internet managed to reinvent the cable model. But in this instance i feel like its similar because now every game wants a disclaimer on everything, a sanitization of everything, and frankly also a subscription for everything.
milo i just wanted to say this is one of my favorite videos this year or maybe even past few, and i would love to see more stuff like this. your the reason i love zombies in the first place and why im so passionate about it. i hope the new zombies is good for the communitys sake, but i will always watch anything you put out. my man keep up the fantastic work.
thank you buddy!! glad you enjoyed it!! 😊
@@fahadmalik8862 the real question here is WHO ASKED LMAOOOOOO
@@fahadmalik8862you just tried to make a really moronic statement sound smart by using smart sounding words. 🤣🤣 What an embarrassing comment, you’re literally upset about the word vanilla. Like what? And for someone trying to sound so smart, you couldn’t even understand that he meant he doesn’t care about your comment. Vanilla, referring to the basic default flavor, not whatever made up reference you’re desperately trying to be offended about.
You know, you make an excellent point about the whole "zombies being something completely alien, something completely unexpected" thing. The more I think about it, the more I realize just how DIFFERENT zombies was to the campaigns and multiplayers - and how much we needed that. The campaigns were fantastic and the multiplayer was always a ton of fun too, but there was just something about zombies that was so different and off the rails when compared to the rest of the Call of Duty content that made it so special.
The piece at the end about the storytelling went crazy and really is a microcosm of the entire storytelling strategy at large since cold war began.
Very well said! The way that info is given instead of left as a mystery takes away from the player's experience in the end
Milo man, i gotta say how nice it is to see your videos popping up so much recently, I grew up with your channel and i'm really digging your new video style, feels like my own personally tailored podcast.
This is the first CoD im not buying but i will be here for every single video you make Milo. I love listening to you to talk to us hardcore fans like adults
People grew so accustomed to full on opening cutscenes for maps but I do love and miss the days of the comic book style loading screens for maps like Nuketown, Moon, Ascension, even Buried. This left it up to you to try and decipher what you think the meaning of it was. A lot of times you don’t even know in Black Ops 1 why our characters are here on this map.
Milo is speaking on the behalf of a lot of us tbh
trying to make sure our voices are heard! 🙏
This is definitely my position
Thanks for making this video Milo💙. Been feeling for years even during Cold War that trearch no longer care about US “veteran players” 😔 I wish there was two separate game modes now zombies and the new zombies stuff for the war zone crowd
This is incredibly put together and you explained and articulated every point so well (just like they’re doing for zombies lore 🙃). Totally agree. It’s sad to say, but we will never reach the peak that was bo3 zombies again. I don’t think we’ll even come close. It may sound harsh, but we’ve lost all creativity in the mode with the likes of blundell, Ross etc. all leaving their respective studios, and the modes feel like (and mostly are) a total cash grab now that relies on fan nostalgia to rake in pity bundles.
I remember taking a ‘sick’ day off school to dedicate it to solving the GK Easter egg and figuring out all the lore. Watching along to countless livestreams from you, pizza, lex, Noah, pretty much everyone lmao, and getting so hyped when we thought we found something. Nowadays, everything is spelled out and it panders to casual players and non zombie players by making itself too simple. That was the last time I was THAT invested in zombies, coming up to a decade ago.
They followed the same pattern with zombies through WaW - Black ops 3 and it got increasingly better, to the point where ZC became (if not, one of) the best selling dlc of all time. They changed the formula for BO4, and things started to go downhill. They changed more and more, until now when it’s a completely different game mode to what it used to be, numbers are at an all time low for zombies, and the vast majority of people are upset. They didn’t listen to the community, and tried to one up themselves by ignoring out wants and focusing on making unnecessary changes we didn’t ask for in a hope to “freshen” a mode that didn’t really need that much freshening.
I could go on for triple this long, but I don’t have the time or patience. Good video Milo, these conversations that involve the lesser talked about things such as the way things are told, and the ignorance to the community need to be talked about if we have any hope of getting zombies even remotely close to what it should be. 👍
THIS. This is so well said and exactly how I feel about the state of the mode.
just wanna say i love the type of content you have been putting out lately.
milos american accent will forever haunt my dreams
Time stamp? Edit: nvm found it 28:20 the stuff of nightmares indeed lol
I hop on my PS4 to play OG Zombies from time to time and nothing compares. New zombie's just doesn't hit the same. The music, weapon sounds, atmosphere, sounds of the zombies. It was all so much more creepy and immersive. Ive been playing OG zombies since 2010 and I won't ever get into the newer zombies until they stop trying to bury their roots. Need to get back to the fundamentals and realize why zombies did as well as it did connected with so many people.
a new mrroflwaffles era has begun and im loving it
I felt this, homie just brought me back to the good old days when I didn’t know a thing about zombies but still trying to understand the story as to why they exist. It was a fun mystery and experience.
I think a lot of it comes down to gaming difficulty and accessibility. Back when WaW came out, gaming in general was less popular and games were a lot more difficult.
With gaming getting a rise in popularity, gaming companies want to make their games more accessible to gather a larger market share. Therefore Games have in general (in the mainstream) become easier. Because there are also so many more competing games, players are generally spending less time in each game. Storytelling has therefore become more streamlined, and things like Easter eggs and secrets get neglected in favor of mass market appeal and handholding. It’s such a shame!
It is true bit in a way formsofware game are really populaire
How old are you? Back in waw gaming was not less popular lol.
Therapist: Wide Milo isn't real he can't hurt you
Wide Milo: 20:06
Cool to see you play the old zombies maps again, would love to see more!
This is why the best zombies EE came from BLOPS1 and 2, after that they leaned way too hard being vague and cryptic where for me i couldnt figure out most easter eggs ever on my own. A nice mix of fun challenge with rewarding story bits or powerups or changes in the map
This is the only element of Zombies that made me infatuated.
I'm a filmmaker and have seen a lot of stuff, nothing in media has ever resonated or fascinated me like the decade of Zombie story-building. The ever evolving premise, characters and world hasn't been reached by any other format of media imo.
This is why one day I believe it has a chance to be one of the most successful TV shows of all time, but even a long running series would comparatively be a movie to the book that Zombies is.
I started playing zombies heavily in BO3, and what kept me in that game was the mystery of the story and the zombies community passion towards finding out what was going on. I wasn't even that deep into the story like Milo was, but it was still interesting to load into a game and do the Easter egg, progressing through the story each map. In Gorod , when Dr. Monty revealed himself, I lost my shit cause I personally didn't see it coming and we only had 1 map left, and so many questions to be answered. These things are what makes the maps so amazing and interesting. If you look at fan favorite maps like Origins, Mob, or Shadows, there all great lore wise. Yeah, they might have the most fun gameplay, but the story aspects are what truly makes those maps amazing. At the end of Origins, where the Samantha and Eddie cutscene happens and you see the characters as dolls, that shit blows your mind and keeps you thinking. Hope we can get something like that again!
I remember reading Reddit post after Reddit post about the mountains on Shangri la. Those were the days.
Loved hearing him talk about loving the flame thrower and then immediately cutting to the round end screen 😭
Storytelling shouldn't have been so obvious and in your face when it comes to zombies, it's what defined the mode
Salty
Idk what it is I normally didn’t watch Milo except for his no nonsense guides but lately I’ve been clicking on every notification of his and I’m all for it!
I forgot about the counter culture feel zombies had. In bo2 I used to always refuse to play multiplayer and exclusively play zombies
Old zombies maps always felt like there was so much more outside of the map. I loved exploring and imagining what was beyond the barriers
The great thing about the way the zombies story use to be told is that it scratches the same itch as Analog Horror.
Piecing together story and lore based on environmental story telling, puzzles and ciphers was always the most fun way to receive and interact with the story and characters.
Basically leaving us to figure it out rather than just giving it to us.
Bruh, HOW MANY VIDEOS. IS THIS EARLY CHRISTMAS!?
You make some very good points, what they’re doing with the newer story lines is like if from software made a new dark souls game and held your hand through it. When what makes those games so interesting is the mystery and discovery
im the most interested in stories that make me question things. i want the story to give me bits and pieces so that i can put them together myself. thats why i like from software games so much. explaining why when and where like this dude did in that reveal was bad cause it takes away any interest ive had in the mode. the best stories are the ones that create more questions than they answer. its an important thing to make your fanbase actively interact with each other to find a common ground on those things. thats the main reason the zombies community got so passionate in the first place. cause blundell knew what to say and what to keep secret. from software games are so vague in storytelling that all the things you hear around the world surrounding god like beings and higher purposes feel like legends, myths and folktales that could actually be true. it increases the believability by a factor of 100 in comparison to games that just straight up tell you how it is. vagueness is one of the best tools in storytelling but its sadly not used very often.
I miss old zombies, i remember me and my cousin's all meeting up to complete the easter eggs. Countless days and weeks were put into the zombie modes over the years. We got an insane high when we hit wave 100 for the 1st time, taking shifts to eat/use the restroom while the others would juggle the last remaining zombies of a round. Watching the nukes leave the moon at the end was insane when we completed the moon base easter egg run
man milo really is pumping out these great videos lately
learned so many tidbits about der riese from this vid like the zombie hazard sign. pls make more like this on other maps
The reason i love milo is that he will make a video pleading for the devs to listen and revert zombies back to what it used to be, other than someone like lex who would prefer to give up on the future of zombies and focus on making remasters of old maps (not to say what lex is doing is bad, its just nice to see someone who has hope for the community.)
I’ve always loved how detailed and well spoken Milo is at explaining the zombies storyline, even way back 10 years ago
I thought the video was going to go in a different direction with talking more about the internal stuff within the game and game world only from the title name compared to the video which included a lot of the external things with Jason Blundell and Cod Next. However I still agree with a majority of what was said.
Externally away from the game, I don't feel like there's much mystery going into MWIII as answers were questioned and did feel talked down to a little. I never really thought about how other audiences would see that information and just assumed it benefited them without really thinking about it.
Internally in game , I'm not a fan of the "new" direction of learning stuff in lore. Yes I love the Intel/Notes system but man make 4 operators (similar to WWII) have actual Zombies Dialogue that can have interactive conversations and talk to us. I'd love the interactions in Blood of the Dead between Primis about there emotions and thoughts. I'm someone who has a pretty strong imagination and so I love putting myself if possible in the characters shoes in situations because it makes myself feel more emerged into the game world. In Cold War even with the notes, I couldn't get emerged into that game world because the interactions of what was happening were with Weaver, Dr Grey etc. all of which weren't me as the character and all of which aren't physically dealing with the danger of the game world. I love going back to Ancient Evil and putting myself in the shoes of a member of the Chaos Crew and work out what I'd be feeling and doing after the end of the main quest EE. Even still in Ancient Evil, I may learn a little new thing here and there from a conversation between characters.
Do I think storytelling is "dead" in zombies. Of course not. I'm just not as emerged into it and therefore my interest isn't there as much. That's why when at CoD Next, when I felt like I had no real story interest besides the Weaver Situation and I only cared for the gameplay aspect.
Sorry if this doesn't make sense or waffles too much. It's Midnight when this got released and I'm tired lmao
Facts! I also want to say that while I hated Ghosts... but the Alien mode really gelt like unique classic zombies.
the bags under milo’s eyes deepen every mw3 video he makes
I loved the early style of zombies so much, mainly gameplay that anyone can enjoy, with enough actual "easter eggs" and story hints through map design and character dialogue for people who wanted to speculate about what the story could be. I really feel like it lost its way around CotD where the EE turned into the "main quest" and the mystery started to get lost
I would never buy the door to the left, simply because of how OP that original camping spot was near that window. 👌🏼
The devs really want to make it easy for new players to understand and play the story. In the past new players would kill zombies and die and get over it because they didn’t want to put in the effort to learn the story. Now they just hold your hand and that makes it so much easier and “fun” for the casual player. Which I hate. I truly feel that zombies will never go back to that because at the end of the day the higher ups just want more people to play and the only way they can do that rn seems like Is to hold ur hand thru the story.
I don’t even know why people need to have the story showed so explicitly to them. I remember playing old zombies just for fun, I never cared about the deeper story, but it was there for people who did and payed attention to the maps. Left 4 dead also shows the story through it environment too.
@@BuzzingMeatI think that’s a point that the devs don’t understand anymore, the most important part is gameplay, good gameplay brings in new players, dumbing down lore only turns old fans away
Bravo Milo cracking for speaking out. My mate had a great quote the other day saying it's so insulting when devs do 'change for the sake of change, not refine or improve'. As a kid being one of those noobs back in the day of WAW, and loving the mode and community for all the points you've said... it is SO depressing, aggravating and demeaning to see what they're doing these days, it's insulting and really sad man. I've met tonnes of new mates this year come over for season work etc and MOST of the people are fans of zombies which is crazy! But the old mode and we play the older games regularly, NONE of the new stuff. They have a gold mine beneath them at Activision/Treyarch and it's just destroying seeing what they continue to do with it. Depressing man
I had this video on in the background while doing other things, and all I gotta say is you voiced my thoughts and opinions perfectly. I feel like us og players are no longer the main focus and that is just a bummer
i just love der reise, the atmosphere, lore, pap, its all so good
I love that he now kinda along with with his normal guides just throws shade at modern zombies
The genius of the COD Zombies storytelling back in the day of WaW & BO1 (kinda lost going into BO2), was that the story was delivered in breadcrumbs here and there throughout all of the maps that we have played. Being given an objective through a radio rather than just observing the space and putting together an objective through your own observations was part of how the storytelling started the crumble. The breadcrumbs in Verruckt, Shi No Numa, Der Riese, Kino Der Toten, etc was what made the storytelling in COD Zombies so unique and intriguing, it was not handed out to you on a silver platter and many different theories can be made about the story from those breadcrumbs was something back in the day truly special! Modern Zombies just gives the story to you through conversations with minimal environmental cues.
Honestly the change to changeable operators in Cold War killed it for me. Didn’t feel like it connected to me at all
Something I loved about the zelinsky maps in bo2 is that they had an amazing story going on in the background with the radios and the flesh and stuhlinger etc. it was so cool and felt like waw again
My friends and I in elementary at the time of WaW... went around this map together in the span of an hour basically just huddled up listening to every radio. We eventually figured out on our own the correct order of the radio stories. Just thinking about those times man...
Everyone praises FromSoft’s storytelling in games like Dark Souls and Elden Ring for being so groundbreaking and different. I personally first experienced that type of storytelling in WaW zombies and it was amazing. It was so mysterious and all the community theory crafting was great to follow. I miss it
It stopped being good in BO3 imo. It was much more interesting when it was grounded in historical fiction rather than the fantastical elements they moved towards
you have been on fire with the daily uploads thanks milo
I remember, looking up story videos for world at war zombies and all the videos were spooky music and images with texts on them. Yet it was one of the more frightening things when growing up. But it was also super fun to learn about the story and that’s partially why we stuck with it for so long in my friend group!
i still remember how insane the reveal for the bo3 campaign story was and how little information we were given. audio clips, pictures, etc, but none of it made sense and we had to piece everything together ourselves sort of like a scavenger hunt of information, and it was probably the last time i was invested in a cod game because of how good the marketing was. cold war was a little bit like it but still didn't really get me as excited. this though, with how complicated the story is and being spoon-fed information, there's no mystery and there's no enticement to actually try to figure things out on your own; and zombies felt like a mode where you were trying to piece bits of information together while simply trying to survive but it hasn't felt like that for so long
something that i really wish you got into, was Dark Aether Zombies being 100% canon to the events of Modern Warfare and Black Ops Campaigns now. I liked this at first but now that i've thought about it more, Zombies will never have that hard hitting storytelling that affects the world again, something as big as blowing up the Earth in Bo1, or Apothicons invading and destroying worlds in Bo3 can't happen anymore because TF141 need to go on there boring adventures in middle east and they can't do that if the there's a global outbreak of zombies. I fear all zombies will be moving forward will be very small outbreaks like we see in MWIII or Cold War, with the entire outbreak being resolved within that map, and that just sound so boring to me. I know i'm in the minority here but I really am not excited for the future of the mode i grew up loving anymore.
outbreak is our great war story line 😢
The BO1 & 2 events were the playground for so much storytelling. You could genuinely take any place on earth and build up a fully original map with unique crews and objectives. Also no interdimensional galactical alien space war.
I used to do these CoD Zombies animated videos just out of pure love for the storytelling methods Treyarch followed and how much room they left for our imaginations. The surface level was always the story of soldiers from WWII and, at the bottom of the iceberg, you had all of these occult elements like the Vrill, Illuminati, etc. I genuinely think someone should do a CoD Zombies remake that is a lot more focused and back to basics. I miss the old days when this franchise inspired me like it did.
Treyarch fan boys ruined zombies. All innovative maps are shunned
I was alive to play World at War zombies from the start and there was literally no talking or explanation of anything in the maps outside of what you would discover or hear from other players theorizing. Part of the fun of 2009-2010 was that a lot of people agreed on the essential story of WaW zombies, but outside of the few established facts, people’s opinions varied wildly on the ancillary details. There is so much mystery that is now gone nowadays, and part of the fun of WW2 zombies or Cold War was the fact we had little idea of what was going on outside of the broad details. I agree very much with the video, keep it up
It’s like someone telling you what your gift is and how to use it before you unwrap it
i love this video so much
i was 5 years old when world at war came out, and never have played the og maps directly from that game. i grew up on bo2, bo3, and bo4, getting addicted to each game, and fell in love with EEs, wonder weapon quests, and the complexity of zombies. This has always made me disregard the og maps as just simple stepping stones with little value to me, but this video has made me appreciate the game design and thought of the early maps like der riese.
Since cold war, zombies has felt bland, soulless, and uninspired, and it makes me SO sad. Im not sure if we will ever get a zombie experience again that even comes close to the quality of black ops 4. Like you described, zombies provided such a foreign and mystical experience that contrasted against the MP, but now zombies feels just as straightforward and linear as a normal MP experience.
Call of duty zombies, (especially black ops 1-4) was such a magical adventure with each new map, and i hope one day treyarch can recapture that magic.
10/10 vid milo, i loved the comparison between zombies openings over the years, i feel treyarch/activision forgets that a core part of zombies is the intel, and that includes out of game stuff, so when they explain stuff they remove that as mystery content for us to figure out
Another issue with the exact storyline right now is etherium, it needs to be removed, its a bioweapon not some mystery to the plague, hence again, removing mystery
This is a really important video, I hope zombies can recover but i'm not so sure anymore. Glad that you still care!
34:40 This is why Cold War succeeded so well. That easter egg build up for the launch was some of, if not the best marketing COD has ever had. It got the attentions of new and old players, getting us curious and intrigued about the story. This is especially true after the Bo4 ending, if they could've done something like this for MW3 it 100% would've made fans more excited (even without round based) because of vanguard.
As someone who has pretty much stepped away from call of duty and the zombies story for a while, seeing the COD Next event play out and literally watching them break the first rule of narrative storytelling (show don't tell) by just explaining everything away is so jarring and bizarre. Like how on earth is this not talked about as "hey we can probably have some cool easter eggs explaining how he's alive!" but is instead just seen as a way to force feed us story. They really need to remember that the mystery and intrigue is what brought us all here in the first place, and seriously LET US EXPLORE AND FIGURE OUT THE STORY ON OUR OWN!!
Really strong takes on the story and progress of zombies over the years. I always loved zombies far more than multi or campaign. Thanks for being the voice for the community Milo. Please listen to him 3arch. We need a standalone or just overall GOOD zombies to keep us caring in the future.
One thing I think WAW - BO2 did that made it so counter-culture was that they didn't have many (if at all) cutscenes or cinematics. The story was told WHILE you were playing. Having these story elements be displayed as you're being chased can make your mind race faster and come up with wild shit. The impact of a constant threat can affect the player's mind in crazy ways, enabling some out of the box ideas. So when you then go online and discuss this on forums it's more fun to hear some of the crazy theories others came up with.
The constant threat element also made finding the subtle messages really fun. One example I can think of is the Morse code traffic light in Tranzit. It goes at a pace where you'd have to question if you're really seeing something.
good vid Milo this is exactly how I feel about zombies, I’ve got ZERO interest in BUYING MW3 but I might see what’s going on every now and then but zombies being boiled down to “I am a disembodied voice, I need your help so I will tell you exactly what to do step by step” process rather than a puzzle to figure out like through riddles and codes and stuff makes me disinterested. It doesn’t really leave room for replay-ability either, which is another thing that makes me stay away from newer zombies modes. Also it’s good not to be the only one who noticed how different the experience between early maps and figuring them out and the most recent maps, so stark the contrast.
I never open that door top of stairs in furnace room till rd 30+ as thompson room is a good training area
10:22 - Perfect illustration of a situation that made all but the most dedicated players lose interest in Zombies...
the simple issue is this: they want to achieve black ops 3 level hype in a single game, like black ops 3 was not a culmination of 4 games of zombies buildup
Fosho, to be honest Milos been doing alot to speak up for the community which I really appreciate
I couldn't agree with Milo more. Another point is that with Cold War, waiting for the next map, I wasn't excited because I thought about how the story would unfold, I was excited because I got another map to play. The speculation is fun, watching theory vids and coming up with your own was amazing. In CW, we literally knew what was gonna happen in the next map before it even came out. I like seeing a new map for the first time and exploring it, trying to map it out as I go, and finding map features. I'm really hoping in the 2024 title, we get originality, an old school formula (round based, great atmosphere, mystery, etc.) and no more of the spoon feeding. Also the point of make us ask questions instead of giving us answers, that is what we need. We need a zombies that challenges us, provokes thought, and makes us work for the story telling so we can have more fun and a more pleasurable experience to spark back that love for the game
What's crazy is us veterans will literally except almost anything story wise if the mystery is there and the gameplay is good. Proof is in the fact we accepted the multiverse idea and even leaned into it ourselves. It's such a hard thing to mess up and they have done it consistently.
milo, this is exactly the video i needed. this is stuff i have been bitching about since MW3Z was announced.
I remember Milo replying "you right!" to my tweet about the hardest EE (cos he forgot that moon existed, i would repress any memory of running that map too) and it hit me, finally that, it "sucks" from a nostalgia view what zombies is now but
Fucking hell we had some amazing times, Milo doing his degree and also doing EE Guides
I wont say the term, but we know exactly how much nonsense was involved
His fitness arc, his time away. NoahJ, Lex, all the boys
Probably get so many similar comments but, as one person in the massive community that is Zombies
Thank you, for everything MrRoflWaffles
Glad to see regular content again, and especially content calling out the blaring issues, instead of just shilling the next release.
I would talk about zombies at school all the time. My mom got a call home once that I was talking excitedly about guns at school and I couldn't think of what it would relate to... Until I realized I was talking about upgrading your guns in pack a punch. That didn't help my case and I got it taken away but I would have my friends bring me info about the map so I could draw up a diagram of all of it
Hit the nail, this is why I rank bo1 zombies so highly, it was a great push above WaW, but it still had that ‘mystery’ to it. You had to figure everything out yourself, no buttons, no handouts, no clues. Sadly it’ll never go back to this, they’re so far deep into the lore instead of the story and journey, but I still like it for what it is.
My favorite story moment was when operator Samantha Maxis interacts with herself in Firebase Z
This absolutely covers all my issues with the new story. It feels so hand fed to the point where during cold war a lot of the time when I was thinking of these questions I would have in the back of my mind I would think 'oh the intel probably answers that' and never even both interacting with the theory side of the community.
I love watching theory videos myself and when the storyline boils down to read read read read read to get all the answers to all my questions it's not really enjoyable.