There was always this mystique type of feeling the first games had when it came to atmosphere, it seemed the only people that ever knew about the zombies and 115 were a handful of people and most of those people were already dead or gone to begin with. It felt like it was those 4 people in every map against everything else that Group 935 left behind. Extremely closed off feeling.
Nailed it. Each map had urban legends implemented discreetly. Also we didnt get super detailed radios, and cyphers. The radios we got were cryptic. So much to draw from with very little. Now it feels like a spec ops mission collabed w zombies
This is the best thing I’ve listened too in awhile. Milo please never stop. We.. yes we.. need your no nonsense break downs. I love this shit.. Mr. Master chef “ I’m cooking something” Milo !!
Man, I remember thinking "I wonder what kind of crazy shit they're going to do next" during the BO1 - BO4 days. Now all that stuff is gone because some people complained about it.
I blame that dogshit bo2 tho. It took the story and introduced all this bullshit mystical shit that never needed to be in zombies. Plus all the maps were ass and not even needed except mob but still. Transit, die rise, buried and origins shouldn't exist and it should've been about the OG crew having to choose between maxis or richtofen. Richtofen obviously being evil but can we trust Sam not to go back to being evil if they get rid of richtofen if that makes sense? The transit crew never even really got used and basically did a whole bunch of side missions for richtofen and that's it. There's no grand plan like bo1. It just led up to them scrapping that universe and focusing on primis until the forced comeback in tag der toten. Imo.
I know I'm late, but your fresh view on a story I've grown distant with really helped put things into perspective for me. The rigid militarification (is that a word?) of zombies put me off getting lost in the story like before. Having the redemption arc of Richtofen and seeing the humanity and remorse of a terrible person was such a compelling narrative!
Yeah, I’ve always felt that stories that make the viewer/reader think are extremely enriching, because in a way it pushes us toward introspection and self-awareness. From experience, I’ve loved stories that through the character(s) and story, they reflect the craziness of human nature, where we feel like we can relate. For me, wanting there to be more of a deeper meaning, and realizing there isn’t, is kind of discouraging, which is honestly how I felt about Zombies recently. Now, it really just feels like a game and not a story. 😢
When I was 16 years old coming home from school seeing the Easter eggs getting finished in bo3 zombies and seeing the cutscene was such a beautiful moment in my life. I haven’t had any story capture me like cod zombies has and I just think everything that comes out now is such a far cry from what it once was and I have less hope every year that we will ever have that again
Bro you are spitting FACTS about the fear for the future. You absolutely hit the nail on the head as to why I don’t care for zombies story anymore. There are no REAL stakes. It’s all about fake PMC’s and launch codes and military. That’s not fun. Stopping Ancient evil and interrupting dark rituals and growing with the characters along the way are what made the original zombies story sooo good.
Its like the radio in Der Reise, when you hear Maxis trying to control the zombies, makes you think who is the true evil the Zombies or the Nazis and subjects like that really tickle my pickle of storys that make you think about a subject like Samanthas story in Black Ops and World at War, a little girl who has been basically tortured and ended up controlling the undead is just prime badshit which I love
To oversimplify what I think you're saying... The Aether storyline, while being nonsensical and confusing and, at times, conveluded... Had character. Not just characters, but character. This person is doing this because they are like this. Cold War, Vanguard, and now MW3 Zombies, have operators. Which means that the people completing the easter eggs, playing the map, aren't relevant to the story in an intimate way. Even if Takeo or Dempsey didn't have much "to do" in something like Gorod Krovi, you knew how they felt about things going on by the quotes and dialogue between them. You could imagine how they would react to things and events in the future. They were people. Imagine Cold War, but you actually played as Weaver. HE investigates Die Maschine, HE shuts it down, HE saves Maxis from the Dark Aether, HE stands by and watches her sacrifice herself. You get to see his emotions and his reactions to everything. You would know what he's going through and sympathise with him. And then you see the MW3 Zombies teaser and BOOM Weaver is dead! Way more emotion just by making him a character in the gameplay with quotes and dialogue, etc. I loved the moment in Die Maschine when you ressurrect Orlov. Seeing him come to the realization of what he has become, run from it. Then you find his picture and you see his speech to his family, and you hear him come to terms and sacrifice himself to save the world, knowing he has one last chance... It's a great character moment. I really think we need to return to a set crew. It's been a surface level criticism since Cold War, but the effects of not having Characters, well, it makes the story, immersion, and overall emotional investment far worse than anything we've seen before. No matter how good the quotes are. If we can't sympathise with any characters, we can't get invested ourselves. Also, I think Cold War/modern Zombies could do better with presentation with cutscenes, in-game events, map specific stuff, etc. but I've always attributed that to the limited Dev time we've seen them get. The "themes" of COld War was really about sacrifice. Kykov sacrificed himself to shut down the machine, he became the Forsaken. Orlov sacrificed himself to shut it down again, he lost his family. Maxis sacrificed herself to contain the Forsaken, who knows what she will become. Maxis, Peck, Ravenov all sacrificed their professional work "for the greater good". Peck is an excellent example of dealing with the consequences of your sacrifices. The Dark Aether story is full of potential. The Dark Aether is one of the most interesting aspects in zombies since "the cycle". The actual events are pretty good too. Forsaken, Maxis, the Director, the pieces are all on the table. It's just how Treyarch goes forward with using them that effects how people will react to it. This is a lot longer of a comment than I originally planned for, sorry. Thanks for reading! :D
It makes me incredibly happy to hear you talking so passionately. I think you’ve basically said everything I could have. It feels like they’re scared of taking risks to be interesting and it took the soul out of what made the story so enthralling.
Exactly what you talked about is why I've gotten into stories like the og zombies and more recently Destiny. The lore of the Hive is so similar to what you talked about on finding purpose in the universe and the unending hunger some have. Really hope Treyarch listens to this because I would love to be invested in zombies again. It's been a huge part of my life and is why I want to get into narrative design as a career. Love the video!
I just realized, the great journey from halo is just like the great war from codzombies. It was built up as this big idea but just turned out to be a suicide mission in both cases.
Something I want to know is what happened to the transit crew once everything was banished to the dark aether. They didn't die because all we see is them in darkness. From what I know time works differently in the Dark aether. There are a lot of theories about them but I wonder if they ever escaped through a rift or died within the dark aether.
I totally agree on the military guff. The fact that the Primis/Ultimis crew had military backgrounds always felt secondary to the enjoyment of their characters, especially as the story became greater in scope and started to interweave the interdimensional stuff into it. There was always a bigger picture, and BO3's greatest success was its capacity to keep its eye on that bigger picture while also somehow delivering upon some unusually personal storytelling that was localised to each individual crew member themselves. For more on that, look no further than the story behind Zetsubou no Shima. You brain starts to switch off a bit when that gets replaced with super cool army squad X and their super cool army guys who get dropped in by chopper and have a super cool army man on the intercom throwing super cool army words at you.
I feel that you are also tapping into the general sense I think most of us have that gaming shifting from niche to mainstream has driven the development of games that are much more accessible to everyone, and part of what's being traded away is the catering to the emotional connections that we all build through much more immersive storytelling. The zombies community is huge and an amazing group of people, but we do represent a small portion of the overall Call of Duty community for which the entire game is being developed for. In this specific case, there is more of a motivation for the creation of a zombies mode that multi-player or Warzone players might feel interested in trying, and not so much to cater to those of us who really want to dive into the niche world of zombies that we have grown so attached to.
I want to see what Eddie and Peck been cooking all these years. Seeing Weaver and the rest of the requiem heads dead is likely he got revenge against him. As Peck, we’ll see.
100% agree. This new game isn’t Cod Zombies. It’s cod campaign with zombies thrown in. The focus isn’t crazy experiments, mythical creatures, magic, dark fantasy mixed with sci fi. They’re trying to fit it all into the realistic modern warfare, and even Cold War universes when it never needed to be merged They’re limiting their own creativity by putting the creative mode into the realistic universe It makes no sense. And just doesn’t work. Cold war has good aspects, but even that game just feels way too “multiplayer-y” Black ops 2, 3 and 4 felt like their own true universe where there’s no limits. It was its OWN thing. Now it’s just being brought down by something else And when the story is just about military factions, Nukes, bunkers, helicopter escorts, human vs human, it just becomes another realistic campaign story. Not a zombies story. It’s a campaign story with zombies thrown in. It’s not a zombies story.
@@VironixPsn I agree vanguard is the laziest and most unrewarding thing I’ve ever played there’s no cool easteregg to grind out there’s no cool wonderweapons and the perk system is just boring
To be fair, like Milo said himself it’s the start of a new story where as BO3 and BO4 were ending stories. Getting the fundamentals down and core characters are going to take longer than ending a story.
@@Ermac43technically BO4 was ending stories plus beginning stories. In the same way they had to lay ground work in Cold War, they had to build something from the ground up with the Chaos story in BO4, and IMO it was just starting to get intriguing when they cut it off abruptly, concluding the Chaos story after just 4 maps. I don't think the community gave the Chaos story a fair shake in that regard. I mean 2 of those 4 maps were some of the best maps we've had in Zombies period with IX and Ancient Evil
I’m here for my cooked waffles 🧇 And I agree I think what made the old school zombies so amazing was the mystery and joining our heroes through the journey like when Sam got Fluffy teleported and being like OH that’s where Hell hounds come from. Or finding Maxis on the Moon and some how they were able to connect literally everything like you said. character connection is also so important where we truly care about everyone. Also in a way they made the story feel like it could continue forever even when it looked like the story was completed there was still more to come.
0:42 I absolutely agree except for the second part. I think the community likes originality, and I think they delivered well on zombies until BO4. BO3 was great and BO4 felt low quality and so I stopped playing from there, but I think BO6 might be the one that gets me back on COD idk. They're remaking some maps and some of which I think should have definitely been BO3 remasters instead of actual story line maps for the alternate timeline. Would be cool to have as little remakes in the new timeline, since we would explore a different time line.
Milo I think you were absolutely spot on, that feel for zombies that we had back in the old story just doesn’t exist anymore. One point you made is the intrigue mystery of things within the old story, like the MPD, vril device, or certain places like where maps are etc. it’s the MYSTERY about these things that would get us interested in the lore with aspects of who, when, what , where and why. It just seems now it’s already all explained to us and there’s no mystery. That’s my take from it all anyway.
Imma be honest... watching this video has made me realize that listening to you speak is very relaxing. It is something that many youtubers in the zombies community have shared for me is that, their videos have a very cozy feeling. Whether it's you or Lex; TheRelaxingEnd or JC, or anyone else. Your videos give me refuge from the rest of life and I am eternally grateful that you have been in my life for these past 8 or so years. Thank you Milo, and keep going, for your sake and ours.
100% on board with this "recipe." I would love to love the new story, too. A different way of saying what you've said, is that the zombies storyline has become straightforward. It's just plot. The mystery is just plot, just "What's going to happen next?" It's not deeper thematic, philosophical meaning, which there was so much of in past zombies. And past zombies, for all its insane sci-fi fantastical craziness, was so human, so raw, so real. It really spoke to the deeper parts of humanity and being human and life and death and sanity and what it all means. Now it's just... military organizations fighting over biological and dimensional weapons. And that's not enough. I like Cold War zombies for the gameplay, I like the maps for the most part, I like playing it. But the story, the characters, the meaning, the questions... they're not compelling. They don't hook me. They don't keep me up at night. And they used to. That's what we've lost.
I'm glad that cold war introduced the intel system, as it and the game as a whole tried to cater towards the more casual fanbase, like giving directions for the EE's. It gave a chance to give info to those who seemed it and had an interest in the story and not having to Google things But I think they really struck gold with og zombies and people are burned out with them trying so hard to profit solely off of nostalgia I'm looking forward to cod 2024 and hope it will learn from cold wars mistakes and bridge the gap between CW and MWIII
I love the way you were able to convey exactly how a lot of us feel with zombies. I remember how vague and mystic the zombie universe was back in BO1. It built up more than I believe we all ever thought. I am happy to see Eddie and Sam in the dark Aether story because it feels like the perfect handoff especially after Tag. Now it seems thrown off like you said, very not enticing ya know? Seeing zombies coming back to MW3 is definitely gonna make me get the game bc I gotta SCRATCH that itch. Hats off to you Chefolio Milo 😂
I feel like BO4 had a lot of maps that would have been really good if they were in a different game. Maps like Dead of the Night and Tag Der Toten would have felt so much better in BO3. I think that Cold War zombies had the exact opposite problem. The game was really good but the maps weren't particularly unique or interesting. If Cold War had better maps then I think it could have easily been as good as the older games.
I believe we truly enjoy stories in which we can relate. Us being stuck in whatever situations we are stuck in, it's always nice to see our imagination become personified through stories told through media. It's an outlet for us to be able to put ourselves in the character's shoes and let our imaginations run rampant as we follow the character's progression.
Part of the reason people aren't clicking as much with the Dark Aether story is because Activision keeps dragging Treyarch into different projects. With the Aether storyline, we got the next chapter with each Treyarch game in *rougly* the order Treyarch wanted to tell it. With the Dark Aether story, after Cold War, they planned to continue it with chapter 2 in their next game. However, Activision tasked them with making a time-period accurate zombies entry in Vanguard, so they had to punt and make a prequel that wasn't planned originally. Once again, Activision tasked Treyarch with making a time-period accurate zombies entry in MWIII, and with it being so far in the future compared to where they originally started, Treyarch once again had to punt and make a far distant loose continuation which, again, wasn't originally planned. So now, things feel more disconnected and it gives some the feeling that the story doesn't know what it wants to do.
It began long ago, on the battlefields of the great war. Two German scientists.... That intro and those maps still give that feeling that made me fall in love with zombies. That aesthetic of a dark and apocalyptical environment where everything is destroyed, tattered, on fire etc. The mystery of 115, crazy Germans trying harness the power, creating wonder weapons and gigantic robots. I miss those days :(
a cod zombies game that just goes back in time, before the end of the aether and tag der toten to unexplored areas of the old storyline like the things you mentioned would be a great direction i think for treyarch. maybe we could play as ultimis or primis again but it would make sense this time because it’s before they died. I just really love the old story and the characters i’d do anything to see it return in some way other then treyarch throwing us a bone by throwing in the old perks, monkey bomb , ray gun, mystery box and pack a punch
I'm always taken aback (In the best possible way) when Milo randomly brings up Halo. Brings a huge smile to my face hearing someone I've been watching for a decade now (still can't believe it's been that long) talk about something so close to my heart. Loved the vid Milo, keep up the great work.♥
I feel without a main crew of characters to play as, no story they come up will have legs. Players that play the mode remember the characters they play as. BO3 leaned into the playable characters so much that each of the DLC maps (DE through GK) was centered around one of the main characters because that is what the people love and remember. You as the player in the old story are helping the playable character in game complete their quest in game unlike in Cold War where you as the player are just a random op completing a quest for people far away from all the action (you feel replaceable)
I think a big part of this is that when zombies started in WaW, there was no story. It was them having fun and WE started the story for them and then they took off with it and brought it in a lot of cool and crazy directions. Now when we see zombies we expect a story but they are telling it to us, not showing it to us because they already know what they want, while in the eather storyline they had an idea of what to do, they didn't know for sure and played with things and we ate it up because we didn't know what would come next I think.
Part of me thinks it’s because we didn’t get a satisfying ending for the last story. The ending we got wasn’t the ending we deserved. And now, similar to chaos, we can’t accept a new story because in our minds the last one never truly ended.
I was so mad that it had ended that way. Such a total fucking cop out. Also we never found out what glowing orb Peter McCain went to go take care of towards the end of Alpha/Omega
I miss when Zombies was about four men trying to overcome impossible odds and their own flaws, realizing along the way that they needed each other more than they'd admit. That more human element is largely missing from the story now, and it's starting to feel more like the campaign with people talking in your ear 24/7 telling you what to do, rather than the characters carving their own path amidst the chaos. I really hope COD 2024 explores Eddie and Sam's relationship more and their reconciling with their past, because that would provide that emotional impact the story is missing and make it 10000x better.
Really insightful video. I can't think of a worse place for the zombies storyline to be than jammed into the mw universe. The intel system in cold war was terrible and I'm sad that its probably coming back in mw3. I've been a fan of the story since world at war and there are so many things in cold war that I still don't know and not in an interesting unsolved easter egg way, in an obtuse you haven't found intel piece number 367 kind of way. I think sanitised is the right word. I miss when the story incorporated actual historical events and gave them a spooky twist that got you thinking in just the right ways. Even in bo3 when some of the more egregious retcons were happening I still think they recontextualized the story in interesting ways. Nothing in cold war comes close to Takeo's realisation about the Emperor or Richtofen crying because he wanted to be the one to save the universe. Sam's sacrifice at the end of cold war could have had the emotional weight of these moments but there simply wasn't enough build up. Operatsiya Inversiya sounds cool but when it boils down to who has the zombie nukes then it loses any mystery it might of had and that's the exact mistake it looks like they are about to make again in mw3.
You're cooking. I think the biggest thing that made zombies was the mythism and the unknown, feeling small in a bigger world out there. and it's been completely stripped.
I think that there needs to be 1. A reason to care about the story. 2. A perpetual feeling of unpredictability and mystique that leaves space for theorizing and excitement about the future. 3. World building.
MrRoflWaffles I only came on board with zombies with Cold War but I would never have appreciated CoD Zombies as much if it weren't for you so I have to say thanks so much for your great work on all this, I really appreciate you please keep up your great work
You sound completely right about the more down to earth nuclear military type stories being pretty dull, and thats what I’ve always associated Modern Warfare games with. Because of that I just can’t envision a world where mw3 zombies captures that same charm and wacky, out of the box sci fi style of storytelling and gameplay that black ops did so well. I’m always interested in the fundamental concept of zombies itself so I’m definitely going to keep a close eye on what happens in mw3. But to win me over the characters just need to have DEPTH, all go through some sort experiences that teach them something new (preferably emotionally), and be likeable! So without a set cast, rather than operators, I believe the devs just close another door that could’ve potentially gotten people invested in the story.
I’m only in the middle of the video. But talking about purpose, this is why I fell in love with Primis Richthofen. He already knew his fate in a way, but after so long he just wanted to journey with his friends and he was relentless to fail to Monty. He wanted to seek out that his purpose and his work wasn’t for nothing in saving his friends. I forgot where I learned it but I heard that after so long there wasn’t a plan because the cycle never stopped. And Richthofen truly was just having fun killing zombies with his friends and that’s when he got betrayed at Mob of the Dead, to end that cycle for him.
I think we’re gonna see what happened around that table that weavers sitting at next year in treyarchs title…I’ll always remember one thing Jason Blundell said…a story doesn’t have to be told in order.
Honestly, it feels like stories and games don’t make interesting/complex yet incentivized antagonist/villains plot goals anymore. The Covenant is a damn good example. We knew who they were and how their overall goal was bad and how we the player had to stop them while also realizing that there was more to the bad guy than we thought. And still, the Covenant stayed true to its roots of its goal making us want to stop them even more.
I’m in your boat. The more intertwined the zombies story is to the campaign universes, the more generic and less outlandish the zombie story can be. It does feel like something tacked on to fill out the content and sell the package as a game instead of dlc, but the story aspect will continue to suffer, so long as it is tied to the campaign world. We become bystanders watching some one else’s story, instead of becoming the protagonists and living the story through someone’s eyes.
something to be said about HOW you enjoy a story is important, I was watching a show recently about a plane that disappeared and came back after 5 years. Even though it was kinda terribly acted the premise of the show was EXTREMELY int4eresting so I stuck it out, but as soon as it started turning into a government conspiracy show I checked out. There's just certain types of stories that have been done to death and Zombies turning into your typical "we're doing it for the military and that's our primary goal" has been done to death. Yeah there was ties to the military and government conspiracies in the original, but it was more subtle and a LOT less important than was was going on it just helped explain why certain relationships or motivations begun and didn't become the whole thing.
Look heres my idea for new zombies, just to keep it fresh yk and something completely new. Lets make the MAIN story two players only. For high rounds and shit ofc bring the 4 player back but for the main story/ easter eggs only 2 plays. Im thinking of maybe a romeo and juliet kinda thing. Guy and a girl and they are mad in love will kill anyone for the other. Theres gonna be an intro cutscene for the first map kinda like shadows where they are living their normal life, somewhere like new york city yk. Very crowded place perfect for a zombie outbreak. We dont know yet but somehow somewhere an experiment goes wrong by the US government and their lives are thrown into shambles. The U.S government blockes of the 5 Burroughs of new york city and those who are there must fend for themselves. As the story goes the girl is at work, sees the news about the outbreak (we could find out about it later on ofcourse) and everyone starts going crazy. She instantly rushes home, sees the zombies going nuts and rushes home to see her man fending off a hoard on his own or with a couple of neighbors ( for the 4 player mode i guess) and thats where the game begins. You live in queens in a decent sized house, rush in to grab some guns and thats where it starts. Kinda like ww2 zombies gives you a short tutorial as you fend off the zombies from your window learn to use your guns etc, and the round based starts outside in your basic neighborhood. This is just the intro, her and her man fighting off a hoard, you can switch betwen the two to see which point of view you want to play as story wise. My idea is that as you go through the game, one of the two get bit, and struggle not to turn, (kinda like maxis’s girl lmao) and they both fight through the hoards and learn as to how this outbreak happened and slowly get hints throughout the rounds as to where they could find a cure if there is one. As the story goes on, they learn through radio chatter or by word of mouth etc that theres a facility where they could find a cure, ( again this is just brainstorming i still want the clues and hints or the eastereggs to be how the OG was, but a completely different story. So whether it be through hints from a “dark aether” speaking to one of the two who was bit, or little symbolism here and there for us to figure it out). I also want to include kind of like a camp where some of the survivors stay as the weeks pass by, and ofcourse it being over run by zombies as the government finds out some are looking behind what happened behind the outbreak. And the last map being them finding the facility, and it switching into kind of a horror game. Like verruckt, remember how creepy that map was at launch? Kind of like that, it still being round based as you explore the map looking for eastereggs/ the cure, the facility ofc being overrun by zombies and whether theres a boss or whatever is up to the developers. And so on so forth. Just a rough idea, basically we keep the main gameplay style that everyone knew and loved, kind of like a bo2 style game but with much better graphics, nothing to do with modernwarfare, but ofc making a similar story is extremely stale now, so why not make it a love story where they fight for eachother and their lives as they watch everything burn around them. Itll be completely fresh story wise, itll have people invested in the story and thise thag just want to play highrounds and get the wonderweapons or whatever can do so as well. Im so tired of the boring missions bullshit so heres an idea.
Bro cooked a mean steamed ham here, i love this vid style of just going off about gaming story philosophy and how to improve zombies with it, 10/10 vid
This is why I like MrRoflwaffles. Not only is he good at zombies and makes good tutorials but he gets into the depths and mental processes of things and stories and actually cares about the zombies storyline and these discussions make you think and I like to do that
It was funny to me when you were talking about how it would be great if there was a prophecy to tell us why we’re here. There is, it’s called the Bible.
Treyarc just needs to hire Milo and the rest of the major zombies youtubers that have been doing this since day 1 to lead the creative story team for zombies
For me what made me dive into the zombies experience was the storyline of Eddy! Even in black ops 2 eddy still had a plan up his sleeve. I’ve said this one and I will continue to say this. They ran away with the storyline after BO3, I felt like we could’ve gotten more in the tank when it came to our beloved characters. And even with our black ops 2 characters. I order for us to get that feeling back we need a good storyline that doesn’t deviate from the objective and throw in some radios,cyphers clues to keep us guessing. Honestly wanted them to go back to Aliens for MW3 and leave the zombies to treyarch. It had been hard for me to keep an interest in this new age stuff because the old school stuff was simply working and hitting every desire when it came to zombies. Like exploring the different characters we heard of to finding out gersh wasn’t officially dead. Like so many txts and clues good Easter eggs played such a huge role in this.
I wish they stuck out WW2 zombies. The mode was meh but the horror vibe was brilliant. If they just learned where it went wrong and applied those changes in a sequel i think it could have just gotten better and better
They should release like 6 maps through the year which are standalone, that’s where the proper storytelling was done. It was so nice to see how every map fitted together which hasn’t been done recently. Great video Waffles 😎
So great to see your vids on my feed again! I dunno, I feel like Cold War did some really cool stuff story-wise and definitely a step on the right direction. Vanguard was 2 steps back, but they can't all be winners I guess. I think it's gonna take some very impressive writing skills to pull me back into the Zombies frenzy I used to feel back in 2015. The sheer amount of world building, information and character development in Cold War is very unappreciated I think, and they way it was presented through detailed collectibles and notes through the seasons was masterfully done. I really hope they do something similar, made the world feel very lived in and it made closing previous plot holes very organic and easy to understand. I'm staying positive, hopefully they continue Maxis' story and come back to some of the new characters (which we are already seeing with Ravenov if the trailer is anything to go by). I could gush about this for hours, your cooking was tasty and made me think.
Brilliant rationalization! The problem might be that, in the golden days of zombies, the story had the chance to be placed on the cosmic stage. There was a sort of big picture to make sense of, back when the story got to play with concepts that are bigger than humanity. There was depth there, something to actually think about. The mystery of Easter Eggs had always been the King of zombies, not the narrative. Exploring hidden meanings or things we came up with, to make sense of it all, is what made it fun. When the Easter Eggs actually had substance, they would make you ponder some of the greatest mysteries of our very existence... The real life Easter Eggs.
I don't remember if I ever thought about why there were Mimics in Firebase Z. Hearing the backstory of them gives me chills, I just wish that it was more prevalent then. Like a side quest that unearths the emergence of the mimics would have been a great point to keep me invested with the story. Stuff like that would go a long way to change the perception of Cold War being a 'terrible game' at the time. Die Machine has Nacht and the Megaton getting his memories back, while Mauer has the train and Robot, with an emotional end. I don't recall practically anything from Forsaken. I just shows that story matters and it barely had any in Cold War. If they added to the quest markers, like an objective list that asks you to find out the reason for the Mimics... I don't know. Cold War changed zombies a lot and while it did attract attention from zombie fans at first, there wasn't much that kept people and ended up rating the game poorly.
I think a huge part of the problem is that the og story started out as something HIDDEN that people stumbled on and discovered slowly. The old story was something that unraveled over the course of literally a decade, starting from a single frayed thread in an expansive tapestry and all of that mystery and limited information gave people a ferocious hunger for more. NOW, people are just as hungry, if not more, as they've ever been, but the mysteries of the zombies universe have already been discovered. Everyone knows there's a story, so there's no use in trying to hide it away in corners for us to find, and the only other option seems to be to put it front and center. The appetite, which in the old days was very small, is already fully formed, so they can't start a new story by leaving a little bread trail anymore, they have to give us a full course meal or else people will lose interest. There's no way for treyarch to put the secrets back in the box for us all to find for the first time again. As a result, there is no more intrigue. Sure, we don't know what will happen in THIS story yet, but we understand the rules of this universe already already, and some new plot (especially one watered down by needing to fit into the MW story) is small potatoes in comparison. There is no grand mystery left to solve like there was in 2009 I think truly the only way to get people REALLY invested again is with a whole new story, in a new universe, with new rules. We need a new Grand Mystery. And unfortunately treyarch already tried that with the chaos story, which people rejected before it ever had a chance to get off the ground, and so Activision will never let treyarch stray from the established universe ever again. The appetite was too large, and treyarch made just a few too many missteps in establishing the new story with an audience that has grown very unforgiving of anything but near perfection. People STARTED getting on board with the release of AE, but the chaos story's fate was already sealed by then. People wanted another origins when the chaos story was hardly at its verrukt As much as I hate to say it, I don't think its even POSSIBLE to recapture the magic of the aether story, it has simply been played out as far it can go. And even if treyarch has the capacity to strike that magic again in a new story, Activision won't give them that chance. I'm sure treyarch will give us something enjoyable during this next year, but it would be foolish to expect magic
Appreciate all that you do. you bring up a lot of questions. I played the new call of duty a lot and pretty much said I'm done. BUT I love zombies.. even the bad ones great opportunity to kill some evil with the boys. They almost need to just make a separate game, people would pay at least $30 for just a good zombies map.
I've been eating at that exact feeling all this time without knowing the recipe - the waffle-iron is once again cooking and I could never be full of it ❤
Wow, I had to listen to this twice and was impressed even more the second time around. I can whole heartedly relate with the thoughts of zombies. LET HIM COOK!
I feel like treyarch needs to deviate from the whole "military bunker" style of maps to really find any change. Like they're leaning far too heavily into realism and military operations in zombies as of late that it's lost that charm of the OG zombies feel. Like back in the day you could have a map based on alcatraz, the wrecked and collapsed buildings of China, or even something like spaceland, and I think that's part of the charm, it doesn't need to be related to military areas to be an interesting storyline which people love. I think there just needs to be a push back towards the mystical of zombies more than anything
edit: you ABSOLUTELY cooked. there's been a lacking of meaningful story or meaningful substories in zombies for a long time before going into the video, for the past 5 years, it's been pretty obvious that they've been trying their absolute hardest to integrate dead story threads or old characters in an effort to get us to play zombies like we used to. that's why *i* personally am uninterested in the story, as i know it will NEVER end, much less even progress
Can you really blame Treyarch for this type of story telling after the disaster of BO4 and the communities absolute distaste of anything other than Aether? We had an incredible start to a story with Chaos and whole comics dedicated to the new story. The core community of zombies reaction however was to absolutely hate on anything that wasn’t Aether. In the exact same way that right now zombies fans are crying that MW3 zombies isn’t round based. Zombies fans have a fear of new things honestly. I wouldn’t blame Treyarch for how they’re telling stories, it’s exactly what the community asked for after ripping Chaos apart.
@Ermac43 yeah it really sucked that people pissed and moaned about chaos. The chaos story was actually really cool and had some bad ass boss fights, awesome maps, great concepts. I think everyone was mostly upset that they were trying to do a new story when the aether story wasn't concluded yet. Had chaos waited until after aethers conclusion I think it would have been recieved way more favorably.
@@Ermac43 i think i can blame treyarch for attempting to integrate the chaos story into the aether story in vanguard out of literally nowhere and quite a few other story/gameplay decisions that are just head-scratching, at least. we don't have a fear of new things, it's just when there is something new, it isn't new, or it isn't done well. that's why chaos soured on so many people, i think, bo4 launched so poorly, and we had to give up original aether maps for original chaos maps
@@Odin420blazinAbsolutely it would’ve been way better received, but even then it just goes to show the priorities that the community has. Why try to make a whole new story and universe use up all that time, talent, and budget when the community is just going to trash on it anyways. So when they basically make the Aether 2 instead of something new, it doesn’t surprise me and I take it for what it is. More Chaos would’ve been cool, but the community would’ve been split on it and people would’ve cried for the OG’s even though they do that anyways.
@@auroral0realisI can agree with them trying to shove Chaos into VG, but it wasn’t fully like that, it was just a reference to Rhodes being a beginner archeologist, not a full tie in. I still think Chaos was way more enjoyable and had much more potential in BO4 than any of the Aether maps did. I don’t care if we had to “sacrifice” Aether maps for Chaos ones, because almost all the Chaos maps were better than the Aether ones. We as a community, essentially blocked out anything that wasn’t Aether like the good ol days, because of nostalgia. In reality, Chaos had everything and more in BO4, but we took it for granted and now people want it back but it’s way too late. Treyarch has some fault 100%, but I blame the majority of fault on community response and reception.
I wish thye'd just bring back the old crew, bring back the old maps, port it all to a new live service standalone zombies game and slowly release all of the old maps, the out-of-game progression from cold war, and just go hard.
Zombies is missing the mystery and depth that we all fell in love with back in waw. Say what you will about zelinski, but his zombies had so much lore and mystery and genuine scariness. Its what got me so hooked. Cold war is missing all of that. I remember being so intrigued when people found that radio in the shi no spawn room. Making you ask more questions. We have all the answers to every question with the 700 intels. No characters we can care about. Its just filler, a husk of what it used to be.
I think the main thing is that there is no main cast. It feels like we aren't really connected to the story other than being a tool for the other characters that don't really interact with us either
I completely agree. Being very concise here, the whole merging of all of the separate stories seemed cool at first(sledgehammer, IW and Treyarch, etc.) Making it all the same universe but there are more problems than upsides, mostly with zombies lmao, extinction was just a movie series otherwise things would get VERY messy lol. But my opinion is very simple, A. I agree they shouldn't have mixed zombies with campaign and multi-player and B. When starting a new series, they should've started it the same way they did in 09, no story in the 1st map, see how people respond to JUST the map and game play. Then 2nd and 3rd map, very small story clues, MAYBE a radio and then map 4, like der riese, have some heavy lore and maybe a small Easter egg that sets up the next game's story. That's why we liked it cause WE designed the story out of the small clues in WAW, then they took our craft, merged it with the very loosely established universe they wanted and married it all.
i think cold was what they said it was, an introduction to zombies and that means everything is an introduction including story. And i also agree the story is very dry every map was its own story and everytime it was oh looks theres zombies go and stop it compared to old zombies where every map was a piece to the big puzzle.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 87 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องชัย vs โชคปรีชา"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YN6e7HVnekw/mqdefault.jpg)
My boy went from telling me how to build the fire staff to operating as a Greek philosopher. Love it
There was always this mystique type of feeling the first games had when it came to atmosphere, it seemed the only people that ever knew about the zombies and 115 were a handful of people and most of those people were already dead or gone to begin with. It felt like it was those 4 people in every map against everything else that Group 935 left behind. Extremely closed off feeling.
Nailed it. Each map had urban legends implemented discreetly. Also we didnt get super detailed radios, and cyphers. The radios we got were cryptic. So much to draw from with very little. Now it feels like a spec ops mission collabed w zombies
Facts!! There was so much more mystery and nuance early on but they gave enough to keep everyone hooked but didn’t spoon feed everything
I loved all the theory crafting, now I feel a lot of that original nuance and mystique has gone
YES!!!
i loved that fucking feeling and u just described it perfectly. maps like kino and verruckt giving that feeling PERFECTLY
It makes me so happy to see you passionately talk about Zombies again, reminds me of the old days :')
This is the best thing I’ve listened too in awhile. Milo please never stop. We.. yes we.. need your no nonsense break downs. I love this shit.. Mr. Master chef “ I’m cooking something” Milo !!
appreciate that bud
@@MrRoflWaffles yo Milo it says under my comment you got a surprise for me
It say that under my comment as well.
@@SuperSaqer probably a bot
I was so engrossed in what you were saying, that when you said “20 minutes” near the end I was shocked. Well done. Great recipe
thank you!!! the chef sends his regards!! 🤝
@@MrRoflWaffles you have a scum bag in your comments section trying to scam honest people bro just letting you know!
“The story feels a little bit vanilla now” is an understatement.
Man, I remember thinking "I wonder what kind of crazy shit they're going to do next" during the BO1 - BO4 days. Now all that stuff is gone because some people complained about it.
@@lucas169Now even the map settings arent even interesting. Each one is just another generic “facility”
@@lucas169no it's all gone because u can't just milk zombies forever lol
I blame that dogshit bo2 tho. It took the story and introduced all this bullshit mystical shit that never needed to be in zombies. Plus all the maps were ass and not even needed except mob but still. Transit, die rise, buried and origins shouldn't exist and it should've been about the OG crew having to choose between maxis or richtofen. Richtofen obviously being evil but can we trust Sam not to go back to being evil if they get rid of richtofen if that makes sense? The transit crew never even really got used and basically did a whole bunch of side missions for richtofen and that's it. There's no grand plan like bo1. It just led up to them scrapping that universe and focusing on primis until the forced comeback in tag der toten. Imo.
Damn it’s been 10 years of COD zombies. Enjoyed every tips & tricks learned to complete Easter eggs from this channel.
Depends if you started counting 10 years ago, but I’ve been playing since 2008
15 Brother
15 years lol if your an og 😂
Homie didn’t play World at War
@@NoVACorpsGaming nor BO1 if they are saying 10
Homie said "Let me cook", and produced a banquet. I've loved these last 15 years Milo, keep up the fantastic work.
I know I'm late, but your fresh view on a story I've grown distant with really helped put things into perspective for me. The rigid militarification (is that a word?) of zombies put me off getting lost in the story like before. Having the redemption arc of Richtofen and seeing the humanity and remorse of a terrible person was such a compelling narrative!
Yeah, I’ve always felt that stories that make the viewer/reader think are extremely enriching, because in a way it pushes us toward introspection and self-awareness. From experience, I’ve loved stories that through the character(s) and story, they reflect the craziness of human nature, where we feel like we can relate. For me, wanting there to be more of a deeper meaning, and realizing there isn’t, is kind of discouraging, which is honestly how I felt about Zombies recently. Now, it really just feels like a game and not a story. 😢
When I was 16 years old coming home from school seeing the Easter eggs getting finished in bo3 zombies and seeing the cutscene was such a beautiful moment in my life. I haven’t had any story capture me like cod zombies has and I just think everything that comes out now is such a far cry from what it once was and I have less hope every year that we will ever have that again
Bro you are spitting FACTS about the fear for the future. You absolutely hit the nail on the head as to why I don’t care for zombies story anymore. There are no REAL stakes. It’s all about fake PMC’s and launch codes and military. That’s not fun. Stopping Ancient evil and interrupting dark rituals and growing with the characters along the way are what made the original zombies story sooo good.
Its like the radio in Der Reise, when you hear Maxis trying to control the zombies, makes you think who is the true evil the Zombies or the Nazis and subjects like that really tickle my pickle of storys that make you think about a subject like Samanthas story in Black Ops and World at War, a little girl who has been basically tortured and ended up controlling the undead is just prime badshit which I love
LET HIM COOK
Stay back, hold your fire, LET HIM COOK.
@@matheusmelisguerrapeixe2330hol' up, let him cook
LET 👏 HIM 👏 COOK!!!!!!
So Requiem are dead in the containment zone... are they coming back as zombies? Manglers maybe?
Let him cook Let him cook man
19:17 ur so right cuz I remember how good the Der Riese radios hit and they were just teleporting shit around
To oversimplify what I think you're saying... The Aether storyline, while being nonsensical and confusing and, at times, conveluded... Had character. Not just characters, but character. This person is doing this because they are like this.
Cold War, Vanguard, and now MW3 Zombies, have operators. Which means that the people completing the easter eggs, playing the map, aren't relevant to the story in an intimate way.
Even if Takeo or Dempsey didn't have much "to do" in something like Gorod Krovi, you knew how they felt about things going on by the quotes and dialogue between them. You could imagine how they would react to things and events in the future. They were people.
Imagine Cold War, but you actually played as Weaver. HE investigates Die Maschine, HE shuts it down, HE saves Maxis from the Dark Aether, HE stands by and watches her sacrifice herself. You get to see his emotions and his reactions to everything. You would know what he's going through and sympathise with him. And then you see the MW3 Zombies teaser and BOOM Weaver is dead! Way more emotion just by making him a character in the gameplay with quotes and dialogue, etc.
I loved the moment in Die Maschine when you ressurrect Orlov. Seeing him come to the realization of what he has become, run from it. Then you find his picture and you see his speech to his family, and you hear him come to terms and sacrifice himself to save the world, knowing he has one last chance... It's a great character moment.
I really think we need to return to a set crew. It's been a surface level criticism since Cold War, but the effects of not having Characters, well, it makes the story, immersion, and overall emotional investment far worse than anything we've seen before. No matter how good the quotes are. If we can't sympathise with any characters, we can't get invested ourselves.
Also, I think Cold War/modern Zombies could do better with presentation with cutscenes, in-game events, map specific stuff, etc. but I've always attributed that to the limited Dev time we've seen them get. The "themes" of COld War was really about sacrifice. Kykov sacrificed himself to shut down the machine, he became the Forsaken. Orlov sacrificed himself to shut it down again, he lost his family. Maxis sacrificed herself to contain the Forsaken, who knows what she will become. Maxis, Peck, Ravenov all sacrificed their professional work "for the greater good". Peck is an excellent example of dealing with the consequences of your sacrifices.
The Dark Aether story is full of potential. The Dark Aether is one of the most interesting aspects in zombies since "the cycle". The actual events are pretty good too. Forsaken, Maxis, the Director, the pieces are all on the table. It's just how Treyarch goes forward with using them that effects how people will react to it.
This is a lot longer of a comment than I originally planned for, sorry. Thanks for reading! :D
It makes me incredibly happy to hear you talking so passionately. I think you’ve basically said everything I could have. It feels like they’re scared of taking risks to be interesting and it took the soul out of what made the story so enthralling.
Exactly what you talked about is why I've gotten into stories like the og zombies and more recently Destiny. The lore of the Hive is so similar to what you talked about on finding purpose in the universe and the unending hunger some have. Really hope Treyarch listens to this because I would love to be invested in zombies again. It's been a huge part of my life and is why I want to get into narrative design as a career. Love the video!
I just realized, the great journey from halo is just like the great war from codzombies. It was built up as this big idea but just turned out to be a suicide mission in both cases.
Milo looks CRAZY! you look like you havent slept in weeks my dude. Bro be getting nightmares over MW3 Zombies.
😓
Something I want to know is what happened to the transit crew once everything was banished to the dark aether. They didn't die because all we see is them in darkness. From what I know time works differently in the Dark aether. There are a lot of theories about them but I wonder if they ever escaped through a rift or died within the dark aether.
I totally agree on the military guff. The fact that the Primis/Ultimis crew had military backgrounds always felt secondary to the enjoyment of their characters, especially as the story became greater in scope and started to interweave the interdimensional stuff into it. There was always a bigger picture, and BO3's greatest success was its capacity to keep its eye on that bigger picture while also somehow delivering upon some unusually personal storytelling that was localised to each individual crew member themselves. For more on that, look no further than the story behind Zetsubou no Shima.
You brain starts to switch off a bit when that gets replaced with super cool army squad X and their super cool army guys who get dropped in by chopper and have a super cool army man on the intercom throwing super cool army words at you.
"Let it sink in" hasn't been in zombies in a LONNNNGGGG TIME. We definitely could use it to make a more compelling story
I feel that you are also tapping into the general sense I think most of us have that gaming shifting from niche to mainstream has driven the development of games that are much more accessible to everyone, and part of what's being traded away is the catering to the emotional connections that we all build through much more immersive storytelling. The zombies community is huge and an amazing group of people, but we do represent a small portion of the overall Call of Duty community for which the entire game is being developed for.
In this specific case, there is more of a motivation for the creation of a zombies mode that multi-player or Warzone players might feel interested in trying, and not so much to cater to those of us who really want to dive into the niche world of zombies that we have grown so attached to.
I want to see what Eddie and Peck been cooking all these years. Seeing Weaver and the rest of the requiem heads dead is likely he got revenge against him. As Peck, we’ll see.
Milo isn't just cooking, he's making a thanksgiving dinner.
100% agree. This new game isn’t Cod Zombies.
It’s cod campaign with zombies thrown in.
The focus isn’t crazy experiments, mythical creatures, magic, dark fantasy mixed with sci fi. They’re trying to fit it all into the realistic modern warfare, and even Cold War universes when it never needed to be merged
They’re limiting their own creativity by putting the creative mode into the realistic universe
It makes no sense. And just doesn’t work. Cold war has good aspects, but even that game just feels way too “multiplayer-y”
Black ops 2, 3 and 4 felt like their own true universe where there’s no limits. It was its OWN thing. Now it’s just being brought down by something else
And when the story is just about military factions, Nukes, bunkers, helicopter escorts, human vs human, it just becomes another realistic campaign story. Not a zombies story.
It’s a campaign story with zombies thrown in. It’s not a zombies story.
Treyarch almost seems lost when they are making zombies today compared to bo3 and before bo4 shattered everything they thought they knew about zombies
I will take bo4 zombies any day. Better than vanguard or nothing.
@@VironixPsn I agree vanguard is the laziest and most unrewarding thing I’ve ever played there’s no cool easteregg to grind out there’s no cool wonderweapons and the perk system is just boring
To be fair, like Milo said himself it’s the start of a new story where as BO3 and BO4 were ending stories. Getting the fundamentals down and core characters are going to take longer than ending a story.
Coincidentally the same time they let Jason Blundell go 🤔
@@Ermac43technically BO4 was ending stories plus beginning stories. In the same way they had to lay ground work in Cold War, they had to build something from the ground up with the Chaos story in BO4, and IMO it was just starting to get intriguing when they cut it off abruptly, concluding the Chaos story after just 4 maps. I don't think the community gave the Chaos story a fair shake in that regard. I mean 2 of those 4 maps were some of the best maps we've had in Zombies period with IX and Ancient Evil
I’m here for my cooked waffles 🧇
And I agree I think what made the old school zombies so amazing was the mystery and joining our heroes through the journey like when Sam got Fluffy teleported and being like OH that’s where Hell hounds come from. Or finding Maxis on the Moon and some how they were able to connect literally everything like you said. character connection is also so important where we truly care about everyone. Also in a way they made the story feel like it could continue forever even when it looked like the story was completed there was still more to come.
This man just made a whole All-you- can-eat buffet
0:42 I absolutely agree except for the second part. I think the community likes originality, and I think they delivered well on zombies until BO4. BO3 was great and BO4 felt low quality and so I stopped playing from there, but I think BO6 might be the one that gets me back on COD idk. They're remaking some maps and some of which I think should have definitely been BO3 remasters instead of actual story line maps for the alternate timeline. Would be cool to have as little remakes in the new timeline, since we would explore a different time line.
Milo I think you were absolutely spot on, that feel for zombies that we had back in the old story just doesn’t exist anymore. One point you made is the intrigue mystery of things within the old story, like the MPD, vril device, or certain places like where maps are etc. it’s the MYSTERY about these things that would get us interested in the lore with aspects of who, when, what , where and why.
It just seems now it’s already all explained to us and there’s no mystery. That’s my take from it all anyway.
Imma be honest... watching this video has made me realize that listening to you speak is very relaxing. It is something that many youtubers in the zombies community have shared for me is that, their videos have a very cozy feeling. Whether it's you or Lex; TheRelaxingEnd or JC, or anyone else. Your videos give me refuge from the rest of life and I am eternally grateful that you have been in my life for these past 8 or so years. Thank you Milo, and keep going, for your sake and ours.
100% on board with this "recipe." I would love to love the new story, too. A different way of saying what you've said, is that the zombies storyline has become straightforward. It's just plot. The mystery is just plot, just "What's going to happen next?" It's not deeper thematic, philosophical meaning, which there was so much of in past zombies. And past zombies, for all its insane sci-fi fantastical craziness, was so human, so raw, so real. It really spoke to the deeper parts of humanity and being human and life and death and sanity and what it all means. Now it's just... military organizations fighting over biological and dimensional weapons. And that's not enough. I like Cold War zombies for the gameplay, I like the maps for the most part, I like playing it. But the story, the characters, the meaning, the questions... they're not compelling. They don't hook me. They don't keep me up at night. And they used to. That's what we've lost.
Bro just did 23 minutes of self discovery and I did in fact watch allat
What a video idea, zombies is one of the wildest examples of community building THROUGH content and I hope they continue to make it worth watching
Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter
I'm glad that cold war introduced the intel system, as it and the game as a whole tried to cater towards the more casual fanbase, like giving directions for the EE's. It gave a chance to give info to those who seemed it and had an interest in the story and not having to Google things
But I think they really struck gold with og zombies and people are burned out with them trying so hard to profit solely off of nostalgia
I'm looking forward to cod 2024 and hope it will learn from cold wars mistakes and bridge the gap between CW and MWIII
I love the way you were able to convey exactly how a lot of us feel with zombies. I remember how vague and mystic the zombie universe was back in BO1. It built up more than I believe we all ever thought. I am happy to see Eddie and Sam in the dark Aether story because it feels like the perfect handoff especially after Tag. Now it seems thrown off like you said, very not enticing ya know?
Seeing zombies coming back to MW3 is definitely gonna make me get the game bc I gotta SCRATCH that itch.
Hats off to you Chefolio Milo 😂
Nah but fr you looking fresh with that black t - chain combo
Really wish we could just continue the chaos story. It had so much potential to be so good.
I feel like BO4 had a lot of maps that would have been really good if they were in a different game. Maps like Dead of the Night and Tag Der Toten would have felt so much better in BO3. I think that Cold War zombies had the exact opposite problem. The game was really good but the maps weren't particularly unique or interesting. If Cold War had better maps then I think it could have easily been as good as the older games.
I believe we truly enjoy stories in which we can relate. Us being stuck in whatever situations we are stuck in, it's always nice to see our imagination become personified through stories told through media. It's an outlet for us to be able to put ourselves in the character's shoes and let our imaginations run rampant as we follow the character's progression.
Part of the reason people aren't clicking as much with the Dark Aether story is because Activision keeps dragging Treyarch into different projects. With the Aether storyline, we got the next chapter with each Treyarch game in *rougly* the order Treyarch wanted to tell it.
With the Dark Aether story, after Cold War, they planned to continue it with chapter 2 in their next game. However, Activision tasked them with making a time-period accurate zombies entry in Vanguard, so they had to punt and make a prequel that wasn't planned originally. Once again, Activision tasked Treyarch with making a time-period accurate zombies entry in MWIII, and with it being so far in the future compared to where they originally started, Treyarch once again had to punt and make a far distant loose continuation which, again, wasn't originally planned. So now, things feel more disconnected and it gives some the feeling that the story doesn't know what it wants to do.
Great point
It began long ago, on the battlefields of the great war. Two German scientists....
That intro and those maps still give that feeling that made me fall in love with zombies. That aesthetic of a dark and apocalyptical environment where everything is destroyed, tattered, on fire etc. The mystery of 115, crazy Germans trying harness the power, creating wonder weapons and gigantic robots. I miss those days :(
Bro didn’t cook about zombies bro cooked about life
a cod zombies game that just goes back in time, before the end of the aether and tag der toten to unexplored areas of the old storyline like the things you mentioned would be a great direction i think for treyarch. maybe we could
play as ultimis or primis again but it would make sense this time because it’s before they died. I just really love the old story and the characters i’d do anything to see it return in some way other then treyarch throwing us a bone by throwing in the old perks, monkey bomb , ray gun, mystery box and pack a punch
I'm always taken aback (In the best possible way) when Milo randomly brings up Halo.
Brings a huge smile to my face hearing someone I've been watching for a decade now (still can't believe it's been that long) talk about something so close to my heart.
Loved the vid Milo, keep up the great work.♥
3:50 Holy Shit, Milo just described my life in a nutshell. Except the satisfaction in the end is living life with the journey I have done🤯...
I feel without a main crew of characters to play as, no story they come up will have legs. Players that play the mode remember the characters they play as. BO3 leaned into the playable characters so much that each of the DLC maps (DE through GK) was centered around one of the main characters because that is what the people love and remember. You as the player in the old story are helping the playable character in game complete their quest in game unlike in Cold War where you as the player are just a random op completing a quest for people far away from all the action (you feel replaceable)
I think a big part of this is that when zombies started in WaW, there was no story. It was them having fun and WE started the story for them and then they took off with it and brought it in a lot of cool and crazy directions. Now when we see zombies we expect a story but they are telling it to us, not showing it to us because they already know what they want, while in the eather storyline they had an idea of what to do, they didn't know for sure and played with things and we ate it up because we didn't know what would come next I think.
Part of me thinks it’s because we didn’t get a satisfying ending for the last story. The ending we got wasn’t the ending we deserved. And now, similar to chaos, we can’t accept a new story because in our minds the last one never truly ended.
I was so mad that it had ended that way. Such a total fucking cop out.
Also we never found out what glowing orb Peter McCain went to go take care of towards the end of Alpha/Omega
I miss when Zombies was about four men trying to overcome impossible odds and their own flaws, realizing along the way that they needed each other more than they'd admit. That more human element is largely missing from the story now, and it's starting to feel more like the campaign with people talking in your ear 24/7 telling you what to do, rather than the characters carving their own path amidst the chaos. I really hope COD 2024 explores Eddie and Sam's relationship more and their reconciling with their past, because that would provide that emotional impact the story is missing and make it 10000x better.
Really insightful video. I can't think of a worse place for the zombies storyline to be than jammed into the mw universe. The intel system in cold war was terrible and I'm sad that its probably coming back in mw3. I've been a fan of the story since world at war and there are so many things in cold war that I still don't know and not in an interesting unsolved easter egg way, in an obtuse you haven't found intel piece number 367 kind of way. I think sanitised is the right word. I miss when the story incorporated actual historical events and gave them a spooky twist that got you thinking in just the right ways. Even in bo3 when some of the more egregious retcons were happening I still think they recontextualized the story in interesting ways. Nothing in cold war comes close to Takeo's realisation about the Emperor or Richtofen crying because he wanted to be the one to save the universe. Sam's sacrifice at the end of cold war could have had the emotional weight of these moments but there simply wasn't enough build up. Operatsiya Inversiya sounds cool but when it boils down to who has the zombie nukes then it loses any mystery it might of had and that's the exact mistake it looks like they are about to make again in mw3.
always love hoping on youtube just to see that my fav zombies youtuber made an upload.
Keep up the good work Milo!
You're cooking. I think the biggest thing that made zombies was the mythism and the unknown, feeling small in a bigger world out there. and it's been completely stripped.
I think that there needs to be
1. A reason to care about the story.
2. A perpetual feeling of unpredictability and mystique that leaves space for theorizing and excitement about the future.
3. World building.
MrRoflWaffles I only came on board with zombies with Cold War but I would never have appreciated CoD Zombies as much if it weren't for you so I have to say thanks so much for your great work on all this, I really appreciate you please keep up your great work
This is like a podcast, but interesting and introspective
You sound completely right about the more down to earth nuclear military type stories being pretty dull, and thats what I’ve always associated Modern Warfare games with. Because of that I just can’t envision a world where mw3 zombies captures that same charm and wacky, out of the box sci fi style of storytelling and gameplay that black ops did so well. I’m always interested in the fundamental concept of zombies itself so I’m definitely going to keep a close eye on what happens in mw3. But to win me over the characters just need to have DEPTH, all go through some sort experiences that teach them something new (preferably emotionally), and be likeable! So without a set cast, rather than operators, I believe the devs just close another door that could’ve potentially gotten people invested in the story.
I’m only in the middle of the video. But talking about purpose, this is why I fell in love with Primis Richthofen. He already knew his fate in a way, but after so long he just wanted to journey with his friends and he was relentless to fail to Monty. He wanted to seek out that his purpose and his work wasn’t for nothing in saving his friends. I forgot where I learned it but I heard that after so long there wasn’t a plan because the cycle never stopped. And Richthofen truly was just having fun killing zombies with his friends and that’s when he got betrayed at Mob of the Dead, to end that cycle for him.
So glad to see You back to enjoying the video making and doing what you love ❤
I think we’re gonna see what happened around that table that weavers sitting at next year in treyarchs title…I’ll always remember one thing Jason Blundell said…a story doesn’t have to be told in order.
Honestly, it feels like stories and games don’t make interesting/complex yet incentivized antagonist/villains plot goals anymore.
The Covenant is a damn good example. We knew who they were and how their overall goal was bad and how we the player had to stop them while also realizing that there was more to the bad guy than we thought. And still, the Covenant stayed true to its roots of its goal making us want to stop them even more.
Love you Milo your enthusiasm has helped the stoke stay alive in these stories
I’m in your boat. The more intertwined the zombies story is to the campaign universes, the more generic and less outlandish the zombie story can be. It does feel like something tacked on to fill out the content and sell the package as a game instead of dlc, but the story aspect will continue to suffer, so long as it is tied to the campaign world. We become bystanders watching some one else’s story, instead of becoming the protagonists and living the story through someone’s eyes.
something to be said about HOW you enjoy a story is important, I was watching a show recently about a plane that disappeared and came back after 5 years. Even though it was kinda terribly acted the premise of the show was EXTREMELY int4eresting so I stuck it out, but as soon as it started turning into a government conspiracy show I checked out.
There's just certain types of stories that have been done to death and Zombies turning into your typical "we're doing it for the military and that's our primary goal" has been done to death.
Yeah there was ties to the military and government conspiracies in the original, but it was more subtle and a LOT less important than was was going on it just helped explain why certain relationships or motivations begun and didn't become the whole thing.
Look heres my idea for new zombies, just to keep it fresh yk and something completely new. Lets make the MAIN story two players only. For high rounds and shit ofc bring the 4 player back but for the main story/ easter eggs only 2 plays. Im thinking of maybe a romeo and juliet kinda thing. Guy and a girl and they are mad in love will kill anyone for the other. Theres gonna be an intro cutscene for the first map kinda like shadows where they are living their normal life, somewhere like new york city yk. Very crowded place perfect for a zombie outbreak. We dont know yet but somehow somewhere an experiment goes wrong by the US government and their lives are thrown into shambles. The U.S government blockes of the 5 Burroughs of new york city and those who are there must fend for themselves. As the story goes the girl is at work, sees the news about the outbreak (we could find out about it later on ofcourse) and everyone starts going crazy. She instantly rushes home, sees the zombies going nuts and rushes home to see her man fending off a hoard on his own or with a couple of neighbors ( for the 4 player mode i guess) and thats where the game begins. You live in queens in a decent sized house, rush in to grab some guns and thats where it starts. Kinda like ww2 zombies gives you a short tutorial as you fend off the zombies from your window learn to use your guns etc, and the round based starts outside in your basic neighborhood. This is just the intro, her and her man fighting off a hoard, you can switch betwen the two to see which point of view you want to play as story wise. My idea is that as you go through the game, one of the two get bit, and struggle not to turn, (kinda like maxis’s girl lmao) and they both fight through the hoards and learn as to how this outbreak happened and slowly get hints throughout the rounds as to where they could find a cure if there is one. As the story goes on, they learn through radio chatter or by word of mouth etc that theres a facility where they could find a cure, ( again this is just brainstorming i still want the clues and hints or the eastereggs to be how the OG was, but a completely different story. So whether it be through hints from a “dark aether” speaking to one of the two who was bit, or little symbolism here and there for us to figure it out). I also want to include kind of like a camp where some of the survivors stay as the weeks pass by, and ofcourse it being over run by zombies as the government finds out some are looking behind what happened behind the outbreak. And the last map being them finding the facility, and it switching into kind of a horror game. Like verruckt, remember how creepy that map was at launch? Kind of like that, it still being round based as you explore the map looking for eastereggs/ the cure, the facility ofc being overrun by zombies and whether theres a boss or whatever is up to the developers. And so on so forth. Just a rough idea, basically we keep the main gameplay style that everyone knew and loved, kind of like a bo2 style game but with much better graphics, nothing to do with modernwarfare, but ofc making a similar story is extremely stale now, so why not make it a love story where they fight for eachother and their lives as they watch everything burn around them. Itll be completely fresh story wise, itll have people invested in the story and thise thag just want to play highrounds and get the wonderweapons or whatever can do so as well. Im so tired of the boring missions bullshit so heres an idea.
Bro cooked a mean steamed ham here, i love this vid style of just going off about gaming story philosophy and how to improve zombies with it, 10/10 vid
13:29 "You don't need to be much from nothing" -Fischerspooner: Emerge
Not gonna lie, my jaw dropped when you became hella philosophical talking about the need for purpose
This is why I like MrRoflwaffles. Not only is he good at zombies and makes good tutorials but he gets into the depths and mental processes of things and stories and actually cares about the zombies storyline and these discussions make you think and I like to do that
It was funny to me when you were talking about how it would be great if there was a prophecy to tell us why we’re here. There is, it’s called the Bible.
Treyarc just needs to hire Milo and the rest of the major zombies youtubers that have been doing this since day 1 to lead the creative story team for zombies
For me what made me dive into the zombies experience was the storyline of Eddy! Even in black ops 2 eddy still had a plan up his sleeve. I’ve said this one and I will continue to say this. They ran away with the storyline after BO3, I felt like we could’ve gotten more in the tank when it came to our beloved characters. And even with our black ops 2 characters. I order for us to get that feeling back we need a good storyline that doesn’t deviate from the objective and throw in some radios,cyphers clues to keep us guessing. Honestly wanted them to go back to Aliens for MW3 and leave the zombies to treyarch.
It had been hard for me to keep an interest in this new age stuff because the old school stuff was simply working and hitting every desire when it came to zombies. Like exploring the different characters we heard of to finding out gersh wasn’t officially dead. Like so many txts and clues good Easter eggs played such a huge role in this.
I wish they stuck out WW2 zombies. The mode was meh but the horror vibe was brilliant. If they just learned where it went wrong and applied those changes in a sequel i think it could have just gotten better and better
13:11 POV- You have Asian Parents (replacing the "old book"):
"Yea, [our son]... he could be here to [be rich], [get a good wife] or all that..."
They should release like 6 maps through the year which are standalone, that’s where the proper storytelling was done. It was so nice to see how every map fitted together which hasn’t been done recently.
Great video Waffles 😎
So great to see your vids on my feed again! I dunno, I feel like Cold War did some really cool stuff story-wise and definitely a step on the right direction. Vanguard was 2 steps back, but they can't all be winners I guess. I think it's gonna take some very impressive writing skills to pull me back into the Zombies frenzy I used to feel back in 2015. The sheer amount of world building, information and character development in Cold War is very unappreciated I think, and they way it was presented through detailed collectibles and notes through the seasons was masterfully done. I really hope they do something similar, made the world feel very lived in and it made closing previous plot holes very organic and easy to understand. I'm staying positive, hopefully they continue Maxis' story and come back to some of the new characters (which we are already seeing with Ravenov if the trailer is anything to go by). I could gush about this for hours, your cooking was tasty and made me think.
We need a cutscene showing us what Primis/Ultimis is doing in this universe (like the end TDT cutscene where they all say what they're going to do)
Brilliant rationalization! The problem might be that, in the golden days of zombies, the story had the chance to be placed on the cosmic stage. There was a sort of big picture to make sense of, back when the story got to play with concepts that are bigger than humanity. There was depth there, something to actually think about. The mystery of Easter Eggs had always been the King of zombies, not the narrative. Exploring hidden meanings or things we came up with, to make sense of it all, is what made it fun. When the Easter Eggs actually had substance, they would make you ponder some of the greatest mysteries of our very existence... The real life Easter Eggs.
Let’s all just take a second to be thankful that this young man has never wanted to start a cult…
Can’t lie, I zoned out every 10 seconds, snapped back into it 60 seconds after that then that cycle repeated right up until the video ended
I don't remember if I ever thought about why there were Mimics in Firebase Z. Hearing the backstory of them gives me chills, I just wish that it was more prevalent then.
Like a side quest that unearths the emergence of the mimics would have been a great point to keep me invested with the story. Stuff like that would go a long way to change the perception of Cold War being a 'terrible game' at the time.
Die Machine has Nacht and the Megaton getting his memories back, while Mauer has the train and Robot, with an emotional end. I don't recall practically anything from Forsaken.
I just shows that story matters and it barely had any in Cold War. If they added to the quest markers, like an objective list that asks you to find out the reason for the Mimics... I don't know.
Cold War changed zombies a lot and while it did attract attention from zombie fans at first, there wasn't much that kept people and ended up rating the game poorly.
I think a huge part of the problem is that the og story started out as something HIDDEN that people stumbled on and discovered slowly. The old story was something that unraveled over the course of literally a decade, starting from a single frayed thread in an expansive tapestry and all of that mystery and limited information gave people a ferocious hunger for more. NOW, people are just as hungry, if not more, as they've ever been, but the mysteries of the zombies universe have already been discovered. Everyone knows there's a story, so there's no use in trying to hide it away in corners for us to find, and the only other option seems to be to put it front and center. The appetite, which in the old days was very small, is already fully formed, so they can't start a new story by leaving a little bread trail anymore, they have to give us a full course meal or else people will lose interest. There's no way for treyarch to put the secrets back in the box for us all to find for the first time again. As a result, there is no more intrigue. Sure, we don't know what will happen in THIS story yet, but we understand the rules of this universe already already, and some new plot (especially one watered down by needing to fit into the MW story) is small potatoes in comparison. There is no grand mystery left to solve like there was in 2009
I think truly the only way to get people REALLY invested again is with a whole new story, in a new universe, with new rules. We need a new Grand Mystery. And unfortunately treyarch already tried that with the chaos story, which people rejected before it ever had a chance to get off the ground, and so Activision will never let treyarch stray from the established universe ever again. The appetite was too large, and treyarch made just a few too many missteps in establishing the new story with an audience that has grown very unforgiving of anything but near perfection. People STARTED getting on board with the release of AE, but the chaos story's fate was already sealed by then. People wanted another origins when the chaos story was hardly at its verrukt
As much as I hate to say it, I don't think its even POSSIBLE to recapture the magic of the aether story, it has simply been played out as far it can go. And even if treyarch has the capacity to strike that magic again in a new story, Activision won't give them that chance. I'm sure treyarch will give us something enjoyable during this next year, but it would be foolish to expect magic
I miss Chaos
Unfortunately I don't think zombies will ever be give us those same feelings we had before. Soo many failed attempts
Appreciate all that you do. you bring up a lot of questions. I played the new call of duty a lot and pretty much said I'm done. BUT I love zombies.. even the bad ones great opportunity to kill some evil with the boys. They almost need to just make a separate game, people would pay at least $30 for just a good zombies map.
I've been eating at that exact feeling all this time without knowing the recipe - the waffle-iron is once again cooking and I could never be full of it ❤
Wow, I had to listen to this twice and was impressed even more the second time around. I can whole heartedly relate with the thoughts of zombies. LET HIM COOK!
I honestly think this is a revolution within the zombies series and also setting a bar for the new releases as well.
I feel like treyarch needs to deviate from the whole "military bunker" style of maps to really find any change. Like they're leaning far too heavily into realism and military operations in zombies as of late that it's lost that charm of the OG zombies feel. Like back in the day you could have a map based on alcatraz, the wrecked and collapsed buildings of China, or even something like spaceland, and I think that's part of the charm, it doesn't need to be related to military areas to be an interesting storyline which people love. I think there just needs to be a push back towards the mystical of zombies more than anything
edit: you ABSOLUTELY cooked. there's been a lacking of meaningful story or meaningful substories in zombies for a long time
before going into the video, for the past 5 years, it's been pretty obvious that they've been trying their absolute hardest to integrate dead story threads or old characters in an effort to get us to play zombies like we used to. that's why *i* personally am uninterested in the story, as i know it will NEVER end, much less even progress
Can you really blame Treyarch for this type of story telling after the disaster of BO4 and the communities absolute distaste of anything other than Aether? We had an incredible start to a story with Chaos and whole comics dedicated to the new story. The core community of zombies reaction however was to absolutely hate on anything that wasn’t Aether. In the exact same way that right now zombies fans are crying that MW3 zombies isn’t round based. Zombies fans have a fear of new things honestly.
I wouldn’t blame Treyarch for how they’re telling stories, it’s exactly what the community asked for after ripping Chaos apart.
@Ermac43 yeah it really sucked that people pissed and moaned about chaos. The chaos story was actually really cool and had some bad ass boss fights, awesome maps, great concepts. I think everyone was mostly upset that they were trying to do a new story when the aether story wasn't concluded yet. Had chaos waited until after aethers conclusion I think it would have been recieved way more favorably.
@@Ermac43 i think i can blame treyarch for attempting to integrate the chaos story into the aether story in vanguard out of literally nowhere and quite a few other story/gameplay decisions that are just head-scratching, at least. we don't have a fear of new things, it's just when there is something new, it isn't new, or it isn't done well. that's why chaos soured on so many people, i think, bo4 launched so poorly, and we had to give up original aether maps for original chaos maps
@@Odin420blazinAbsolutely it would’ve been way better received, but even then it just goes to show the priorities that the community has. Why try to make a whole new story and universe use up all that time, talent, and budget when the community is just going to trash on it anyways. So when they basically make the Aether 2 instead of something new, it doesn’t surprise me and I take it for what it is. More Chaos would’ve been cool, but the community would’ve been split on it and people would’ve cried for the OG’s even though they do that anyways.
@@auroral0realisI can agree with them trying to shove Chaos into VG, but it wasn’t fully like that, it was just a reference to Rhodes being a beginner archeologist, not a full tie in. I still think Chaos was way more enjoyable and had much more potential in BO4 than any of the Aether maps did.
I don’t care if we had to “sacrifice” Aether maps for Chaos ones, because almost all the Chaos maps were better than the Aether ones. We as a community, essentially blocked out anything that wasn’t Aether like the good ol days, because of nostalgia. In reality, Chaos had everything and more in BO4, but we took it for granted and now people want it back but it’s way too late. Treyarch has some fault 100%, but I blame the majority of fault on community response and reception.
12:39 that moment when Milo describes how religious texts grab people’s attention
I wish thye'd just bring back the old crew, bring back the old maps, port it all to a new live service standalone zombies game and slowly release all of the old maps, the out-of-game progression from cold war, and just go hard.
Zombies is missing the mystery and depth that we all fell in love with back in waw. Say what you will about zelinski, but his zombies had so much lore and mystery and genuine scariness. Its what got me so hooked. Cold war is missing all of that. I remember being so intrigued when people found that radio in the shi no spawn room. Making you ask more questions. We have all the answers to every question with the 700 intels. No characters we can care about. Its just filler, a husk of what it used to be.
This video reminds me why I loved the Borg storyline in Star Trek
I think the main thing is that there is no main cast. It feels like we aren't really connected to the story other than being a tool for the other characters that don't really interact with us either
I completely agree. Being very concise here, the whole merging of all of the separate stories seemed cool at first(sledgehammer, IW and Treyarch, etc.) Making it all the same universe but there are more problems than upsides, mostly with zombies lmao, extinction was just a movie series otherwise things would get VERY messy lol. But my opinion is very simple, A. I agree they shouldn't have mixed zombies with campaign and multi-player and B. When starting a new series, they should've started it the same way they did in 09, no story in the 1st map, see how people respond to JUST the map and game play. Then 2nd and 3rd map, very small story clues, MAYBE a radio and then map 4, like der riese, have some heavy lore and maybe a small Easter egg that sets up the next game's story. That's why we liked it cause WE designed the story out of the small clues in WAW, then they took our craft, merged it with the very loosely established universe they wanted and married it all.
The last person that said let me cook let me down. Big time. I'm looking at you Russ Wilson. Broncos country....let's cry...
i think cold was what they said it was, an introduction to zombies and that means everything is an introduction including story. And i also agree the story is very dry every map was its own story and everytime it was oh looks theres zombies go and stop it compared to old zombies where every map was a piece to the big puzzle.
I watched this on shrooms and can't explain how much this touched my soul