Agreed. I honestly think SC was just a front to get this tech built. I have no doubt that SC will be one of the best games ever. But, this tech will make CR billions when they start licensing it.
@@aaronkeet8238they won't be licensing it as they aren't going to sell their engine but they will likely release at least a few papers and the indistry will learn from it.
I don't know if many realize that this tech and this engine will get licensed to other games too at some point. This is just the beginning of the era of massive games.
Right now, the entire Stanton system is simulated on a single server which hosts 100ish people at a time. What we saw here was three servers simulating a single room. What this means is that we will eventually be able to have titan class ships with hundreds of people on them with multiple servers simulating that single ship alone while other servers are simulating the space battle that is happening outside of it.
We currently exist in a world where mega multiplayer gaming is impossible due to the inability ( mostlly financial ) or disinterest in gaming tech that isn't instantly beneficial. Sitting here right now, our SC community helped to bring this together. I'm a Whale backer & honestly thought the idea of this was ludricis & required a dedicated community & developer which is why I was so dedicated to financially back this project... here we are fellas,. pat yourselves on the back & see this come together finally. The only issue I have is his quote ( early ).... so we all know this isn't near completion, i'd venture to say another 8 months to a year. Ty SC community again!
I'm super glad people have come together to support this game and make this possible. I only heard about this game recently after the disappointment of Starfield and the lack of anything interesting coming to Elite: Dangerous for quite awhile now. I wish I'd known sooner, but I think I came in at a good time. This game kicks my ass but it is so ridiculously fun.
Completely agree with you. Gaming (and most other industries) are incentivised on near term results to please shareholders. It rare for one to be in a position of having so much funding upfront with relatively little pressure to deliver by a certain date, this gives a lot of space to innovate.
This video and my little knowledge of how big a deal this is reminds me that there are some incredible, herculean efforts happening behind the scenes on so many of the big games we play and it's nice that at least this time a lot of players know of it
The major problem was to create the whole package of technology that is inexistant with this type of 3d engine with physics and such. Its not that '"new", but they had to built the entire stuff for this specific engine from zero, which is long. And plus, waiting a few years 4-5, made sure that technology would also be better to work with which was always the plan from start with CR.
That's what happen when a company stop paying their employees because investors collected too much profit rather than delivering ambitious games. Proud my pledges do go into such employees pocket!
@@vinct7023 Yeah, lots of people really underestimates what it means, that CIG doenst have any kind of investors that own part of the company. Thats a HUGE advantage.
I've gotta say, they absolutely nailed that demo and if this system works as well as in the demo CIG could easily market the entity streaming tech on it's own for future mmo titles! Persistence is the future of gaming!!
When Chris Robers said he cried - i think some people that dont fully understand the milestone think he's bull shtting. Paul Reindell had a hard time toward the end too..took all his strength not to break down in tears.
If they really can scale it up it's absolutely massive, it will completely change gaming as a whole. Most games are limited to 100-200 players MAX but with this it will be possible to have thousands of players in the same area. It's one of the biggest breakthroughs made in gaming ever.
Depends on how many servers are needed for the game's scale of physical zoning, the capacity of each zone regarding clients, and their ability to keep the universe running smoothly at scale with such a large universe. If this technology is all that comes from Star Citizen it would be worth it (as a long time critic and non-backer) but I really hope that this game actually works cause I'd love to play the finished version of it.
I think this scales only so far. Maybe a couple hundred people at a time per instance. The database could quickly and easily explode into millions and millions of entries and become too large to query within a latency that is streamlined for realtime gameplay.
@@tear728 They build the databaser to be able to scale aswell to be able to handle all those entities. Question is, how well does it scale in reality, from what i can see they use a tree model which can scale quite well.
@danielc9967 It might be time to move on to something else if you've been hurt that bad by this project you have to lurk around comment sections doing this. Not healthy.
@@Charlouf_ many games did it, look up dual universe, already had 1000 player servers, $20 million budget, 4-6 years ago. Imagine if they had 600 million. Oh and CIG hasn’t actually done anything, they showed a demo of 4 players, this is 2023 we have mobile games with bigger multiplayer caps
No they didn't. This is a demo. They are pretty well known for faking this shit. Server meshing is not possible with the tech we have today. The guys in the submarine simulator crowd have tried for years. You basically NEED a server to keep track of the main server, for each server connected.... Untill you can get the server to keep track of EVERYTHING ON IT BY ITSELF... Its not cost effective. Each of us would basically need our own server to play and one to communicate all the positions and locations of placed objects in our game to the one keeping track of yours....
If there's anyone's team at CIG that I'm willing to trust is these guys. They delivered and stabilized PES in under a year after the initial internal implementation. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I feel fairly comfortable saying we will see this in game in 2024.
@@MaxIronsThird it's not a content thing, it's purely a system that controls data so once it works, it should be relatively easy to bring it online. of course the two big questions is does it scale? as well as what will it look like in a non-LAN environment? One dev responded on saltemike stream saying it scales no problem and at least the first implementation is only intended for star system level so in theory it'll work for first implementation of pyro no problem. It likely will work no problem with planetary systems too (so like 500+ players per star system). The only question is really in dynamic server meshing (10+ thousand players). But at least this demo shows they'll get to 500+ players pretty easily.
@@DopeyFishI don't know if they can be sure if it scales well enough. External Playtest need to be done in order to check this. Imho there is still the risk to have some kind of bottleneck between client, replication and database. The tech is impressive though!
I think we got a base implimentation of just the replication layer this week on 3.2.1 live and PTU if I'm not mistaken but please correct me if this is wrong. I thought I had read about it somewhere on patch notes or spectrum.
Think iv watched this about 5 times already still blows my mind.. well done to the teams who worked on it, i know for a fact that shit was hard as fuck.
PES and server meshing is really amazing. what they are doing with SC / S42 is really trailblazing :) yes; the release of it has been slow, but true R&D is hardly ever fast.
A++ work here. This is foundational work that will be the backbone of our play forever more in Star Citizen. And when CIG begins to license this technology and makes their billions, we'll look back on this as year zero. The paradigm has shifted.
"And when CIG begins to license this technology and makes their billions" You mean when the back end programmers inevitably go to other companies and help them develop the technology, IF it scales appropriately? I'm sure what was displayed today wouldn't be an issue for most companies to do at the scale represented. The issue is bringing it to multi-system scale with no loss in performance (and better than what it gets now) for tens of thousands of players. That is the hurdle that keeps everyone else from just inventing this technology themselves. Networking software can be proprietary, but it's against the very nature of the free market to license the concept of replication layer and persistent streaming, that will be reverse engineered and developed in tandem with sniped employees far before CIG ever makes a single billion on the tech. Once again, IF they manage to deploy this at the scale necessary for the game to actually come out and be playable for thousands of people.
@@r0cketm00se3 i think they will patent the tech before that happens. Just to put an example: "Nintendo has patented Link's Ultrahand and Fuse abilities from Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom. The company has recently made a number of its registered patents public, including 31 related to the latest Zelda game, Automaton reports. Many of those patents relate to Link's main suite of abilities, but there are some more general and unusual patents too - including the game's loading screen, for instance. When using fast travel, a loading screen shows a map of the player's current location before transitioning into a map of the destination. This, apparently, was enough for Nintendo to patent. Another patent is for Link's physics when standing on a moving object, so he moves in the same direction and at the same speed without further input needed. (Essentially, objects move by physics and Link moves by player input, but when standing on a moving object Link is automatically given the same movement properties so they align.) There's even a patent for a mechanic that prevents Link from grabbing an object with Ultrahand that he's also standing on top of, which seems pretty obvious" Star citizen developers will patent everything they can of this new tech
I find it amusing how the people in the comments section taking time out of their day to hate on this and claiming it won't work or that it has taken too many years. 1. You are here watching and reacting emotionally. Learn to be a rational human being. If you so strongly believe what you are saying why bother even being here and typing out all these comments defending your view of this not coming out? Just let it not come out and move on with your life. 😂 2. You don't understand game engines or computer science the way you think you do. This requires a bit more than arm-chair knowledge to get a full understanding of the technical so clearly some of you have no idea what you are watching. I would recommend you stop worrying about this game enough to type out comments and instead use that valuable time to learn some deeper technical skills if understanding these types of pr3esentations is one of you r hobbies. 3. Some of us have very little interest in the game itself and more in actual tech implementations Devs use to get around computational problems. These are riddles solved with complex math, not for the laymen. Take some courses on some of these subjects, you might learn something. Who knows you could even gain a profession or career. Sitting in comment sections debating with more knowledgeable strangers about a game you claim will never come out is beyond foolish. Time is a resource.
Any problem can be solved with enough time and resources. And Chris is highly incentives to solve it as he can sell the tech. I dont get the people who think its a scam. Its simply a matter of when it's coming, not if.
This is badass in so many ways. I'm not sure everybody can wrap their heads around the extent to which this tech at the core of the vision of Star Citizen. It is the very heart of it, and those devs should get a ticker-tape parade!
@trignite I dont think u understand this is like first of its kind this tech is something every big mmo is dreaming off, its not something u can pull out in a couple of months, There is a reason why they are the firsts ones doing it
@@trigniteyeah it took 10 years to build a company and try to innovate. Shit happens, things fail, but it's that never give up attitude that let's them succeed with their vision. If they had your mentality, they would have failed. Waste of your time homie. You either relish at the thought of this crashing and burning to try to tell people "I tOLd YoU So!" Or It'll releae and you'll play it and enjoy while keeping quiet about being the miserable little ass you are.
This is what excited me the most out of all the entire presentations. The gaming community will come to understand who to thank in time. This only happens with an independently funded studio. No publisher would pay to create this for the amount of money it would take to achieve. Massive franchises will rise out of this. LoTR games, Star Wars, The Expanse. Truly hope they release the engine when it's done in the future and give it continued support.
As a distributed systems engineer I can't express enough mad fucking respect for them pulling off building this. Holy shit the sweat and tears that are in this system. It's fucking impressive
I would love to see addressed desync and different connectivity and latency to the differnet servers. Because what i can imagine is that if you are on purple and walk to green but get some kind of connection issue with the green server, you encounter a void where red is supposed to be, because the purple server doesnt have the red zone. So if you as the client have a good connectivity to the purple server but for some reason cant connect, or periodically disconnect, from the green one, you can actually walk to the red one.
As far as I understand it - the streaming/entity system is decoupled from the dedicated server instances. So the transition happens on the streaming-services side and the dedicated server is receiving events from that streaming server. That said it's only important to have an ongoing connection to the streaming/persistence service which as far as I understand is not that difficult to scale up or make resilient nowadays with providers like AWS or Google Cloud. With this in mind one can have one active red server and one ready as a fallback - both parallel receive the streamed info about the player being in a "red" zone. If the primary red zone server fails - the fallback red zone server is in charge having the same state as the primary since they both independently consume the streaming-service
I suspect, much like many new features, when it first launches it may be buggy and unstable. But CIG will do as they have always done and progressively update and dial it in.
@@xetra1155 Yeah, i just hope this doesnt get shut down because of some random connectivity huccup when it is deployed to the production live enviornment. This tech looks awesome (even if many things are beyond my understnding, especially the client-server specific stuff) and i hope they build on it nontheless, this seems like a really cool way to infinitely expand map size and at the same time reduce server downtimes and maximize playtime for players by only needing to update/change servers that have the regions that are about to change. Especially in an always online game like SC.
@@elementoflight6834 it's optimize for many players in certain zones. I think it will become problematic when only player visits one area. That would really shrink Performance because a whole server plus objects have to be setup for one player only
Guess that shows it's worth it to build up over years with a large far off goal. Baldurs gate 3 proved it in a lesser extent, but with this its like literally going to space, you get spin-offs that can be used in so many different things, like Velcro. Server meshing is like Nasa creating velcro.
Will it scale? How many clients with all of their entity containers can it track in real-time on the replication layer? How will client network latency/lag be handled? Is the tech fast enough to keep up with a large ship full of players and stuff whizzing through these server zones at full afterburner speeds? Will the system be dynamic? Spooling up micro servers inside heavily congested existing servers? What happens if a Kracken is sitting halfway between two server zones? So many questions...
This *should* scale laterally (over the world space). Your persistence layer allows the entity store to be accessed laterally by each server and client. You have a streamed connection to the state of the entities that are shown to you, this *should* be the only latency that the user sees. Physics calculation and interactions are done by the individual servers and updated via the replication layer into the entity store. Servers need to stream other server resources so they can do boundary-crossing calculations. This allows "update" latency to only be how long it takes a server to fetch a change, calculate, and push an update to the entity store. Now for it to scale vertically (IE with more entities) you have to scale server density. Which we already saw. 1 server, 3 zone. 3 servers, 3 zones. It allows more servers to be added when areas become more dense with activity. None of that is really simple and is probably what the team is looking at in the future, but the theory is there that it could work.
They said it will be dynamic as last stage of development and static at first. They also said it will scale, I mean it kinda has to scale or it won't work but we'll see.
@19:00 when he triumphantly declares 'we did it', I have to take exception. They've over-delivered on the ability to restart a failed server, which is very much welcome redundancy and arguably necessary when your server is 100 servers. What still seems to be missing is the ability to have ship A be mapped to server A, so it can have a fight with ship B mapped to server B through space controlled by server C. Until they get that part working it won't even be possible to have a fully crewed idris fighting another one without bring the area server to its knees. This isn't about having eve style battles, this is about having modest style battles, so while what they've achieved is cool it still has a long way to go before it has delivered on the pitch of dynamic server meshing.
what you're talking about seems to be the scaled up itteration of what they showed at 14:00. I would be surprised if interacting across 2 serverlocations will be much different than interacting across 3 serverlocations. But i am definitely nervously excited to see this being scaled up to planetary and solar scales!
It shouldn't be too difficult for them. A single server currently runs an entire system with up to 100 players. They showed how responsive it was with cross server interactions. With what they showed, and the way live is currently. I doubt it would be too difficult to map a couple of ships interiors as an area each, while the outer areas are handled by another server. They could potentially tie this to Physics grids of larger ships.
You just increase the numbers of servers in the replication layer, or increase the area size of each one.. its also possible for multiple replication layers i belive. So yes, its gonna be possible.
I don't think the intent is to have ships be on their own servers. The zones will be static (or dynamically assigned static areas). For example, Stanton would be on a general server for deep space areas, each moon and planet would have their own server, and then landing zones would have their own servers, and they could combine or split areas based on entity count and player count. Ships, however, will simply be entities that swap between servers as they move through space, and players will also shift like shown here. If they can already simulate all of Stanton on a single server, even a hundred ships in a small area is not going to mess with performance very much. They also planned at one point to have performance caps that mean if too many entities are in a small area they will "split" the groups into multiple instances of the same basic thing, but we'll have to see if that's still necessary with how much performance increase this can bring.
It's that big of a breakthrough lol he got caught up. People will understand how big it is once a different game from a different studio implements this in a classic ip but in a massive scale. I'm thinking LoTR or Star Wars. In reality it could be anything.
Holy Sh** it finally clicks now that im seeing it in action. So If im understanding it right. The replication layer is client side.( is it?) The servers connect to the replication layer and gains authority over parts of it. If a server dies the part that it had authority over just stop getting updates but the client remains connected. On re-connection the last state of that part of the replication layer gets restored then resumes updates. Thats actually sick.
I don't think the replication layer is clientside. Storing this data locally wouldn't be a great choice. Important data needs be on servers to avoid manipulation.
@@TheShmann It doesnt matter if the data is manipulated. When the server reconnects/changes it brings back the replication layer to its last online state(discarding offline local changes since disconnecting). Thats what it looks like at least
The point is that you connect to a server that's only purpose is to store clients location in the world and other relevant info. The replication layer doesn't give a fuck about your player model or the environment, its purely data. Then the other servers take that data from the replication layer and replicate it on their server to simulate the environment for you and other players, that's the demanding part. Dealing with just pure data is orders of magnitude lower than having to deal with everything else on top of it. @@Chevifier
@@CitizenFrostI would be happy if they used that money to develop the game further, which i am pretty certain, they will do. I am so happy, what do you think how much additional funding money could they achieve by licensing this tech?
its not going to work, you can already see in his tiny little test bed that its lagging like hell, there is no way this ever works at scale, not enough computing power in the world. oh and p.s it has nothing to do with him running the client and server locally, that was a bullshit excuse, the real problem is that their game is borked beyond repair.
@@hawkzulu5671 it didnt work, all the reports come out that its a complete mess as i suspected lol, nothing CIG has ever done has worked, not even the trams / elevators ever worked correctly.
Ca y est on y est. Avoir vu cette révolution dans le jeu vidéo en direct c'était incroyable Merci à CIG pour ce rêve éveillé. vivement les annonces d'aujourd'hui =)
Have to laugh at the people saying it's been done before on other games 5 minutes ago the same type were saying its impossible 😂 And even now there's people STILL saying what's shown in this tech demo is impossible 😂
i believe the splitting to different servers is new, but i know that games like Dark souls 1 had pretty similar area loading techneques to what they show for their streaming. FromSoft just utalized invisible hitboxed that unload and load areas, much like the zones themselves here.
Seems there are a lot of armchair network experts out there. Now I know if I'm ever developing my own video game I can clearly just recruit staff from the TH-cam comments. Seriously though, nearly any problem can be solved with a big enough budget.
The gaming industry has been very stagnant on innovation the past decade, this is a very innovative and ground breaking for the industry that its just what it needed, hope it can lead by example
This is probably the most important tech for the whole game. I own the game but I'm waiting to start playing the game before server stops wiping, I want to earn my stuff ingame not buying offline for cash, with that said I do enjoy funding the game by buying stuff, so if servers stopped wiping I would be spending more money on the game.
To all the haters over the last 10 years, this was for you. We backed this game (myself in 2014) Because we believed in a vision that was to most, impossible. And here we are, finally seeing that it has become the possible. When everyone on the gaming world doubted the game and it’s vision. It’s truly the greatest CitizenCon we have ever had and there’s still another full day of it to come. The devs and CR must feel so good to finally see some light at the end of this long dark tunnel. I know a large majority of the community is ecstatic about what we have seen today. Some of us have never given up hope, though we have become jaded and bitter, the hope has never died. CIG has made a lot of us so happy and relieved. Not just from today, but this journey that we have been on together has been a wild ride and seeing this game come into a state where we can see major progress is just astounding. Kudos CIG. And kudos to those who have stuck around during the rough years. Get ready. This year is going to be nothing like we have ever seen.
B.s. dude. Everything they said we ALREADY KNEW ABOUT. Still nothing after how many years? Another 10 years for them to finish the game. Stop being a Whiteknight
@@kodiak1294 oh you knew pyro was coming next week to it’s own PTU? You knew server meshing was actually working and just needs to be scaled up? I might be a white night? But what does that make you? I sure don’t watch videos about games that I’m not interested in or have given up on. At least I’m honest to myself about my interests.
@@tslater2005 of course. But that’s my entire point. When they said no loading screens, seemless family from hab to ship out of atmo to space and to another planet. Everyone said it couldn’t be done on the scale it is now. Anyone who knows what the game actually does and how daunting of a task it was to get here, understands what has been achieved. Anyone how denies the accomplishments that have already been made are lying to themselves or they don’t understand game development.
@ThatZenoGuy for the purposes of the demo I think it was OK. But agree with you for the game generally that they'll need good hardware for this all to work.
2 records in 1 day showcasing that engine. World record longest spline travel ever captured in a game engine - 6 Billion km (engine was only capable of 16km maps when they got it) - and the 1st working prototype of Dynamic Server Meshing in the history of gaming/game engines. Im sure they are Quite embarrassed.@@ThatZenoGuy
looks like this is more of a game that one plays when they have nothing but free time to invest in it and take it all in,a casual player won't get enough out of it..imo
In a game as big as star citizen with so many ships and people there isnt a single server which can handle all the computing needed to make it all work. Millions of objects, ships and peolple across multiple planets and star systems interacting, Its just too much stuff over an area too big. But if you can take all those ships and people.. break them up into smaller groups and put them on a server of their own then everything will work just fine. But then you have a problem. If everyone is on a different servr nobody will see each other or be able to interact with each other. The universe will feel empty. So you then have to find a way to break up those people into groups on their own servers but still be able to interact. So you instead give a server a small area to generate. And link those servers together so people can interact with others on their server and nearby servers with no transition or loading. That is server meshing. So what he is showing is 3 areas.. all generated on different servers (denoted by the colours) but people from one server interacting with objects on a different server. Later he shows that he can change the option to stream only what is necessary in nearby servers which is when things in the red server are no longer generated on the nearby purple server. This will reduce load on the red and purple servers if they dont need to generate things for those servers. But overall this is good for the game. It will mean we coulf habe battles with thousands of players and everything would be smooth. A capital ship with hundreds of players might need 5 servers to generate the players objects etc but it would still feel like one big server. Im sorry if this is still hard to follow, but I thought I would at least try to explain 😊
@@MrJeffharper47 hard to say. In theory the scalability should be endless once they move over to dynamic server meshing. What we see here is static server meshing. So stationary server meshing. One server controls an area and that is that. The limitations to that arr of course if too many players congregate in one area. But the plan after this is to dynamically change the amount of space a single server controls. To give an example. Lets say one server can comfortably serve 20 people. If you have a single large ship with 20 people in the cockpit The ship would generated by one server. But.. if I add another 10 crew to the ship and put them in the engine room, with dynamic server meshing the replication layer will spin up another server and now the front of the ship will be on one server and the back will be on a second server. So in theory the limitations should only be how many servers CIG can have access to for their needs, but in theory as they work with amazon warehouses full of servers they can rent on demand they should have unlimited numbers if servers at their disposal too. Honestly I dont know enough about the tech to know what any of the pitfalls could be. Maybe a bottleneck in the replication layer but I am just a layman myself who just likes computers so I couldnt say. But in theory it is infinitely scalable and we could have thousands of players across hundreds of ships in one battle if we wanted. In theory.. haha
As a non technical expert I tend to think of this as spreading the load of the game across multiple servers, and joining all of those servers together into one big one. But that is a gross simplification.
@@CitizenFrost pretty accurate tho and definitely shorter than my explanation. 😁 Im totally psyched for it tho. I am one step closer to getting my hands on the big ships I paid an embarrasingly large amount of money for 🤣
Imagine you're playing with a really big LEGO city with all your friends. Sometimes, the city gets so big and crowded that it's hard to play without things getting slow or messy. Server Meshing is like having a lot of grown-ups who help organize the LEGO city. They split the city into smaller parts and each grown-up takes care of one part. So, if you and your friends are playing in one area, you have one grown-up looking after you. If you move to another part of the city, another grown-up takes over. This way, everyone can play together without the city getting too crowded or slow. In Star Citizen, it's like having lots of grown-ups (servers) helping make sure everyone can play in the huge space world without any problems. -ChatGPT
Star Citizen is just in a completely different league. It's like comparing SNES to PS1. Starfield could still have been great but sadly it was undercooked.
When Chris admitted that he thought this tech was going to be in the game righr NOW, it just proves to me that he has no clue whats going on with his teams. Total incompetence as usual. They have no plan for any of this, its just lip service to hope to get more funding for their money making scheme. I mean how could he actually say that meshing is coming into the game right now? Think about that for a moment, huge red flag people. This project is nothing but a scam.
Clown comment - they have been updating and keeping us in the loop as to the progress of Dynamic Server Meshing the entire way through including the current thing that is being tested -the Replication layer. Once Replication layer is integrated - then the testing Begins for the Static Server Meshing. NO version of Server meshing will be coming to SC before version 4.0 - but we dont know what part of 2024 4.0 will land. Theres One person who may think somebody said or meant its coming Now..but thats your own mistake. Nobody else is raging because nobody else made the same error.
@@hawkzulu5671 I can tell you're a new backer lol. I believed this same shit back in the day when chris told us SQ54 answer the call 2016! coming out in 2016! lol. you must be a new kiddo.
Ive been following along since that one space station Port Olisar was the only location in game I remember seeing the first planetary landing in SC in 2016 so i must have been following it for a few months by then- but started playing a bit over a year ago. @@Runescape.
@@OneTomato You can't expect people who say things like this to have watched the entire conference lol some of the things shown would actually hurt their little baby brain minds if they see it actually working. Physics engine alone was state of the art. Amazing presentation, can't wait to watch their next one whenever that may be.
@@CitizenFrost this approach is proven to not work many times, from since at least project Darkstar in the 90s. And more recently Dual Universe. Why not? Many reasons but one is that you cannot stop the network traffic from exploding well beyond what can be handled. Also replication of fast moving objects across servers...So, if you go down that route the reality is that you will have thick lag and strict caps on number of players and objects that can interact.
@@TheWandererTiles Here is the thing sure is a really difficult task to do, makes sense they have been working it for years then, second they are showing a smaller scale working model here, so 2 takes from this it still needs to be tested at a bigger scale, but they did had a bigger demo that was not for the presentation they did say on planet system it has been tested, up to 500 players, so we have medium testing. Now my biggest question is why is so many people interested on saying its imposible? checking how hard it is just for testing this tech the years checks out, and the tech is such an advanced useful one that I dont see why would anyone wants it to fail? sure this might be really difficult but what does people gain from such comments? T%his sounds so hard as people want this project to fail to validate their "I was right it was a scam" ego, I wonder who will be more hurt backers if it doesnt deliver all (they are already playing something so they have some part of it already) or detractors if they succeed(that they have nothiong at this point other than negative comments)
@@EstebanBrenesV its pretty well known by now its impossible. IMHO what they should have done was go for a much more simple approach i.e. instances and entity limits, borders, loading screens, carefully designed planets and areas to minimize the effects of the limitations, and a vastly scaled back universe. But would that sell? Probably not so well.
you don't understand how revolutionary this is. COE didnt do this or anything similar. they proved that this revolutionary tech works it is only matter of scale now
@@soyentak5076 Never talked about the tech, COE put out a bad demo, something basic to play around in, we see it here 4 player demo to show server meshing which is supposed to have 1000 players. Sure
@@danielc9967 My guy, how do you expect them to cram 1000 players into a live demo. The whole point is to just show that the technology is possible. Obviously this will be scaled up.
The fact that more people are not focusing on this part of the conference is insane. This will change gaming forever.
Agreed. I honestly think SC was just a front to get this tech built. I have no doubt that SC will be one of the best games ever. But, this tech will make CR billions when they start licensing it.
@@aaronkeet8238they won't be licensing it as they aren't going to sell their engine but they will likely release at least a few papers and the indistry will learn from it.
You really believe they are the first ones to implement server meshing? Come on…
we're just tired of hearing about it now
It's vaporware. They talk but never produce.
I don't know if many realize that this tech and this engine will get licensed to other games too at some point. This is just the beginning of the era of massive games.
100%
:D
Keep dreaming sheeple
you haters are so mad right now it's amazing. Reading /r/starcitizen_refunds is the best. Y'all are spurging tf out over there.@@bricktop6362
@@bricktop6362 🤣 go play fornite bro
Right now, the entire Stanton system is simulated on a single server which hosts 100ish people at a time. What we saw here was three servers simulating a single room. What this means is that we will eventually be able to have titan class ships with hundreds of people on them with multiple servers simulating that single ship alone while other servers are simulating the space battle that is happening outside of it.
This could be theoretically possible, but the main issue would be if servers can move within each other and/or intersect in general
@@IconoclastMark Next up Server Neural Networks
We currently exist in a world where mega multiplayer gaming is impossible due to the inability ( mostlly financial ) or disinterest in gaming tech that isn't instantly beneficial. Sitting here right now, our SC community helped to bring this together. I'm a Whale backer & honestly thought the idea of this was ludricis & required a dedicated community & developer which is why I was so dedicated to financially back this project... here we are fellas,. pat yourselves on the back & see this come together finally. The only issue I have is his quote ( early ).... so we all know this isn't near completion, i'd venture to say another 8 months to a year. Ty SC community again!
I'm super glad people have come together to support this game and make this possible. I only heard about this game recently after the disappointment of Starfield and the lack of anything interesting coming to Elite: Dangerous for quite awhile now. I wish I'd known sooner, but I think I came in at a good time. This game kicks my ass but it is so ridiculously fun.
another big problem is the super dated USA internet infrastructure
Completely agree with you. Gaming (and most other industries) are incentivised on near term results to please shareholders. It rare for one to be in a position of having so much funding upfront with relatively little pressure to deliver by a certain date, this gives a lot of space to innovate.
remind me in 10 years what happened firebird. because i'm willing to bet you none of this ever sees the light of day
@@Runescape.replication layer is already being tested by backers
This video and my little knowledge of how big a deal this is reminds me that there are some incredible, herculean efforts happening behind the scenes on so many of the big games we play and it's nice that at least this time a lot of players know of it
Well said!
The major problem was to create the whole package of technology that is inexistant with this type of 3d engine with physics and such. Its not that '"new", but they had to built the entire stuff for this specific engine from zero, which is long. And plus, waiting a few years 4-5, made sure that technology would also be better to work with which was always the plan from start with CR.
this guy was one of the heavy tech guys at Crytek, so you know he means business here
That's what happen when a company stop paying their employees because investors collected too much profit rather than delivering ambitious games. Proud my pledges do go into such employees pocket!
@@vinct7023 Yeah, lots of people really underestimates what it means, that CIG doenst have any kind of investors that own part of the company. Thats a HUGE advantage.
I've gotta say, they absolutely nailed that demo and if this system works as well as in the demo CIG could easily market the entity streaming tech on it's own for future mmo titles! Persistence is the future of gaming!!
I cant imagine the excitement on the team when they finally cracked this. Years of work and its stating to show big time
When Chris Robers said he cried - i think some people that dont fully understand the milestone think he's bull shtting. Paul Reindell had a hard time toward the end too..took all his strength not to break down in tears.
If they really can scale it up it's absolutely massive, it will completely change gaming as a whole. Most games are limited to 100-200 players MAX but with this it will be possible to have thousands of players in the same area. It's one of the biggest breakthroughs made in gaming ever.
Depends on how many servers are needed for the game's scale of physical zoning, the capacity of each zone regarding clients, and their ability to keep the universe running smoothly at scale with such a large universe. If this technology is all that comes from Star Citizen it would be worth it (as a long time critic and non-backer) but I really hope that this game actually works cause I'd love to play the finished version of it.
I think this scales only so far. Maybe a couple hundred people at a time per instance. The database could quickly and easily explode into millions and millions of entries and become too large to query within a latency that is streamlined for realtime gameplay.
@@tear728 They build the databaser to be able to scale aswell to be able to handle all those entities. Question is, how well does it scale in reality, from what i can see they use a tree model which can scale quite well.
this is absolute insanity, this will change gaming forever.
This is absolutely insane I can't believe they did it
Did they though? I mean this is a demo that can be put together by anyone.
@@danielc9967 yep, and yet, no one did it until now, since 40/50 years of gaming history.
@danielc9967 It might be time to move on to something else if you've been hurt that bad by this project you have to lurk around comment sections doing this. Not healthy.
@@Charlouf_ many games did it, look up dual universe, already had 1000 player servers, $20 million budget, 4-6 years ago. Imagine if they had 600 million.
Oh and CIG hasn’t actually done anything, they showed a demo of 4 players, this is 2023 we have mobile games with bigger multiplayer caps
No they didn't. This is a demo.
They are pretty well known for faking this shit.
Server meshing is not possible with the tech we have today.
The guys in the submarine simulator crowd have tried for years.
You basically NEED a server to keep track of the main server, for each server connected....
Untill you can get the server to keep track of EVERYTHING ON IT BY ITSELF...
Its not cost effective.
Each of us would basically need our own server to play and one to communicate all the positions and locations of placed objects in our game to the one keeping track of yours....
Gaming history moment right there.
some people don't get how big deal this is. It will change MMO forever.
You'll know its true when you headlines like 'Microsoft acquires CIG'
@@CitizenFrost Don't be surprised. I have been waiting to hear news like this for years. Eventually someone will attempt and that will be news enough.
If there's anyone's team at CIG that I'm willing to trust is these guys. They delivered and stabilized PES in under a year after the initial internal implementation. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I feel fairly comfortable saying we will see this in game in 2024.
2028*
@@MaxIronsThird it's not a content thing, it's purely a system that controls data so once it works, it should be relatively easy to bring it online. of course the two big questions is does it scale? as well as what will it look like in a non-LAN environment? One dev responded on saltemike stream saying it scales no problem and at least the first implementation is only intended for star system level so in theory it'll work for first implementation of pyro no problem. It likely will work no problem with planetary systems too (so like 500+ players per star system). The only question is really in dynamic server meshing (10+ thousand players). But at least this demo shows they'll get to 500+ players pretty easily.
Soon™
@@DopeyFishI don't know if they can be sure if it scales well enough. External Playtest need to be done in order to check this. Imho there is still the risk to have some kind of bottleneck between client, replication and database.
The tech is impressive though!
I think we got a base implimentation of just the replication layer this week on 3.2.1 live and PTU if I'm not mistaken but please correct me if this is wrong. I thought I had read about it somewhere on patch notes or spectrum.
People focus on the impressive eye candy, and that is also impressive tech.... But this is insane. The devs that pulled this off are sorcerers.
its not real tho, just like tony Z quanta bullshit we've seen at citizen con for the past 6+ years but never in game for some mystery.
Think iv watched this about 5 times already still blows my mind..
well done to the teams who worked on it, i know for a fact that shit was hard as fuck.
Indeed, I can't even imagine how complex the code behind this must be
PES and server meshing is really amazing. what they are doing with SC / S42 is really trailblazing :) yes; the release of it has been slow, but true R&D is hardly ever fast.
A++ work here. This is foundational work that will be the backbone of our play forever more in Star Citizen. And when CIG begins to license this technology and makes their billions, we'll look back on this as year zero. The paradigm has shifted.
Thank goodness the game has a backbone after just ten years
Jesus listen to yourself man, go touch some grass.
lmao
"And when CIG begins to license this technology and makes their billions"
You mean when the back end programmers inevitably go to other companies and help them develop the technology, IF it scales appropriately? I'm sure what was displayed today wouldn't be an issue for most companies to do at the scale represented. The issue is bringing it to multi-system scale with no loss in performance (and better than what it gets now) for tens of thousands of players. That is the hurdle that keeps everyone else from just inventing this technology themselves.
Networking software can be proprietary, but it's against the very nature of the free market to license the concept of replication layer and persistent streaming, that will be reverse engineered and developed in tandem with sniped employees far before CIG ever makes a single billion on the tech.
Once again, IF they manage to deploy this at the scale necessary for the game to actually come out and be playable for thousands of people.
@@r0cketm00se3 i think they will patent the tech before that happens.
Just to put an example:
"Nintendo has patented Link's Ultrahand and Fuse abilities from Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom.
The company has recently made a number of its registered patents public, including 31 related to the latest Zelda game, Automaton reports.
Many of those patents relate to Link's main suite of abilities, but there are some more general and unusual patents too - including the game's loading screen, for instance.
When using fast travel, a loading screen shows a map of the player's current location before transitioning into a map of the destination. This, apparently, was enough for Nintendo to patent.
Another patent is for Link's physics when standing on a moving object, so he moves in the same direction and at the same speed without further input needed.
(Essentially, objects move by physics and Link moves by player input, but when standing on a moving object Link is automatically given the same movement properties so they align.)
There's even a patent for a mechanic that prevents Link from grabbing an object with Ultrahand that he's also standing on top of, which seems pretty obvious"
Star citizen developers will patent everything they can of this new tech
tech will be used in many many future games, glad SC will be the first.
I find it amusing how the people in the comments section taking time out of their day to hate on this and claiming it won't work or that it has taken too many years.
1. You are here watching and reacting emotionally. Learn to be a rational human being. If you so strongly believe what you are saying why bother even being here and typing out all these comments defending your view of this not coming out? Just let it not come out and move on with your life. 😂
2. You don't understand game engines or computer science the way you think you do. This requires a bit more than arm-chair knowledge to get a full understanding of the technical so clearly some of you have no idea what you are watching. I would recommend you stop worrying about this game enough to type out comments and instead use that valuable time to learn some deeper technical skills if understanding these types of pr3esentations is one of you r hobbies.
3. Some of us have very little interest in the game itself and more in actual tech implementations Devs use to get around computational problems. These are riddles solved with complex math, not for the laymen. Take some courses on some of these subjects, you might learn something. Who knows you could even gain a profession or career. Sitting in comment sections debating with more knowledgeable strangers about a game you claim will never come out is beyond foolish. Time is a resource.
Any problem can be solved with enough time and resources. And Chris is highly incentives to solve it as he can sell the tech. I dont get the people who think its a scam. Its simply a matter of when it's coming, not if.
The world's first Supergame could only be built by the men that wanted it. No AAA studio would dare to bite this off.
Yup this would be career ending for any CEO answering to shareholders. Chris has taken a huge risk here but it could change the entire industry.
This is badass in so many ways. I'm not sure everybody can wrap their heads around the extent to which this tech at the core of the vision of Star Citizen. It is the very heart of it, and those devs should get a ticker-tape parade!
So badass it took 10 years for them to do another stage showcase and its still not out.
@@trigniteI don't think you realize how complicated this shit is.
@trignite I dont think u understand this is like first of its kind this tech is something every big mmo is dreaming off, its not something u can pull out in a couple of months, There is a reason why they are the firsts ones doing it
@@trigniteyeah it took 10 years to build a company and try to innovate. Shit happens, things fail, but it's that never give up attitude that let's them succeed with their vision. If they had your mentality, they would have failed. Waste of your time homie. You either relish at the thought of this crashing and burning to try to tell people "I tOLd YoU So!" Or It'll releae and you'll play it and enjoy while keeping quiet about being the miserable little ass you are.
5-6 years actualy
if the gaming community has this tech, many games can truly be mmos
This is what excited me the most out of all the entire presentations. The gaming community will come to understand who to thank in time. This only happens with an independently funded studio. No publisher would pay to create this for the amount of money it would take to achieve. Massive franchises will rise out of this. LoTR games, Star Wars, The Expanse. Truly hope they release the engine when it's done in the future and give it continued support.
As a distributed systems engineer I can't express enough mad fucking respect for them pulling off building this. Holy shit the sweat and tears that are in this system. It's fucking impressive
I would love to see addressed desync and different connectivity and latency to the differnet servers. Because what i can imagine is that if you are on purple and walk to green but get some kind of connection issue with the green server, you encounter a void where red is supposed to be, because the purple server doesnt have the red zone.
So if you as the client have a good connectivity to the purple server but for some reason cant connect, or periodically disconnect, from the green one, you can actually walk to the red one.
As far as I understand it - the streaming/entity system is decoupled from the dedicated server instances. So the transition happens on the streaming-services side and the dedicated server is receiving events from that streaming server. That said it's only important to have an ongoing connection to the streaming/persistence service which as far as I understand is not that difficult to scale up or make resilient nowadays with providers like AWS or Google Cloud.
With this in mind one can have one active red server and one ready as a fallback - both parallel receive the streamed info about the player being in a "red" zone. If the primary red zone server fails - the fallback red zone server is in charge having the same state as the primary since they both independently consume the streaming-service
I suspect, much like many new features, when it first launches it may be buggy and unstable. But CIG will do as they have always done and progressively update and dial it in.
@@xetra1155 Yeah, i just hope this doesnt get shut down because of some random connectivity huccup when it is deployed to the production live enviornment. This tech looks awesome (even if many things are beyond my understnding, especially the client-server specific stuff) and i hope they build on it nontheless, this seems like a really cool way to infinitely expand map size and at the same time reduce server downtimes and maximize playtime for players by only needing to update/change servers that have the regions that are about to change. Especially in an always online game like SC.
@@elementoflight6834 it's optimize for many players in certain zones. I think it will become problematic when only player visits one area. That would really shrink Performance because a whole server plus objects have to be setup for one player only
Guess that shows it's worth it to build up over years with a large far off goal. Baldurs gate 3 proved it in a lesser extent, but with this its like literally going to space, you get spin-offs that can be used in so many different things, like Velcro. Server meshing is like Nasa creating velcro.
Huge congrats to the team !
watching this made me understand how far we are in the PU from their vision. so many many more ships sales to go
Will it scale?
How many clients with all of their entity containers can it track in real-time on the replication layer?
How will client network latency/lag be handled?
Is the tech fast enough to keep up with a large ship full of players and stuff whizzing through these server zones at full afterburner speeds?
Will the system be dynamic? Spooling up micro servers inside heavily congested existing servers?
What happens if a Kracken is sitting halfway between two server zones?
So many questions...
youll never get answers
Dunno. The team are committed to delivering something epic, so I think they'll address all of these questions and issues through development.
This *should* scale laterally (over the world space). Your persistence layer allows the entity store to be accessed laterally by each server and client.
You have a streamed connection to the state of the entities that are shown to you, this *should* be the only latency that the user sees.
Physics calculation and interactions are done by the individual servers and updated via the replication layer into the entity store. Servers need to stream other server resources so they can do boundary-crossing calculations. This allows "update" latency to only be how long it takes a server to fetch a change, calculate, and push an update to the entity store.
Now for it to scale vertically (IE with more entities) you have to scale server density. Which we already saw. 1 server, 3 zone. 3 servers, 3 zones.
It allows more servers to be added when areas become more dense with activity.
None of that is really simple and is probably what the team is looking at in the future, but the theory is there that it could work.
They said it will be dynamic as last stage of development and static at first. They also said it will scale, I mean it kinda has to scale or it won't work but we'll see.
When Planetside2 have a thousand plus players battles I never thought any other games would be able to top that
Ah the good old days of Planetside 2, those were good times.
@19:00 when he triumphantly declares 'we did it', I have to take exception. They've over-delivered on the ability to restart a failed server, which is very much welcome redundancy and arguably necessary when your server is 100 servers. What still seems to be missing is the ability to have ship A be mapped to server A, so it can have a fight with ship B mapped to server B through space controlled by server C. Until they get that part working it won't even be possible to have a fully crewed idris fighting another one without bring the area server to its knees. This isn't about having eve style battles, this is about having modest style battles, so while what they've achieved is cool it still has a long way to go before it has delivered on the pitch of dynamic server meshing.
They showed it at 14 min I guess
what you're talking about seems to be the scaled up itteration of what they showed at 14:00. I would be surprised if interacting across 2 serverlocations will be much different than interacting across 3 serverlocations. But i am definitely nervously excited to see this being scaled up to planetary and solar scales!
It shouldn't be too difficult for them. A single server currently runs an entire system with up to 100 players. They showed how responsive it was with cross server interactions. With what they showed, and the way live is currently. I doubt it would be too difficult to map a couple of ships interiors as an area each, while the outer areas are handled by another server. They could potentially tie this to Physics grids of larger ships.
You just increase the numbers of servers in the replication layer, or increase the area size of each one.. its also possible for multiple replication layers i belive. So yes, its gonna be possible.
I don't think the intent is to have ships be on their own servers. The zones will be static (or dynamically assigned static areas). For example, Stanton would be on a general server for deep space areas, each moon and planet would have their own server, and then landing zones would have their own servers, and they could combine or split areas based on entity count and player count. Ships, however, will simply be entities that swap between servers as they move through space, and players will also shift like shown here.
If they can already simulate all of Stanton on a single server, even a hundred ships in a small area is not going to mess with performance very much. They also planned at one point to have performance caps that mean if too many entities are in a small area they will "split" the groups into multiple instances of the same basic thing, but we'll have to see if that's still necessary with how much performance increase this can bring.
03.08.2024 - The golden day in the history of games! Paul Reindell's name will go up next to John Carmack's!
Very exciting!
Holy shit, they actually did it.
man got a bit emotional at the end there
It's that big of a breakthrough lol he got caught up. People will understand how big it is once a different game from a different studio implements this in a classic ip but in a massive scale. I'm thinking LoTR or Star Wars. In reality it could be anything.
Holy Sh** it finally clicks now that im seeing it in action.
So If im understanding it right.
The replication layer is client side.( is it?)
The servers connect to the replication layer and gains authority over parts of it.
If a server dies the part that it had authority over just stop getting updates but the client remains connected.
On re-connection the last state of that part of the replication layer gets restored then resumes updates.
Thats actually sick.
I don't think the replication layer is clientside. Storing this data locally wouldn't be a great choice. Important data needs be on servers to avoid manipulation.
@@TheShmann It doesnt matter if the data is manipulated. When the server reconnects/changes it brings back the replication layer to its last online state(discarding offline local changes since disconnecting). Thats what it looks like at least
I don't think the replication layer is client side, I think it's more like a another server that sits in between you and the rest of the servers.
@@CitizenFrost i thought the whole point was to both avoid 3k and have larger clients count connected at once
The point is that you connect to a server that's only purpose is to store clients location in the world and other relevant info. The replication layer doesn't give a fuck about your player model or the environment, its purely data. Then the other servers take that data from the replication layer and replicate it on their server to simulate the environment for you and other players, that's the demanding part. Dealing with just pure data is orders of magnitude lower than having to deal with everything else on top of it. @@Chevifier
Tech like this should be licensed out for MMO games
And they could make the backers shareholders and share in the profits 📈
@@CitizenFrost The "profit" will be a existing and hopefully long living Star Citizen Game. :)
@@CitizenFrostI would be happy if they used that money to develop the game further, which i am pretty certain, they will do.
I am so happy, what do you think how much additional funding money could they achieve by licensing this tech?
how does that work for very fast moving entities (FTL travel) though?
Why would travelling fast cause an issue?
its not going to work, you can already see in his tiny little test bed that its lagging like hell, there is no way this ever works at scale, not enough computing power in the world. oh and p.s it has nothing to do with him running the client and server locally, that was a bullshit excuse, the real problem is that their game is borked beyond repair.
@@Runescape. 😂
@@Runescape. 800 player tests yesterday - no way it will ever work at scale xd
@@hawkzulu5671 it didnt work, all the reports come out that its a complete mess as i suspected lol, nothing CIG has ever done has worked, not even the trams / elevators ever worked correctly.
Ca y est on y est. Avoir vu cette révolution dans le jeu vidéo en direct c'était incroyable
Merci à CIG pour ce rêve éveillé. vivement les annonces d'aujourd'hui =)
this will be game changer
For sure!
Have to laugh at the people saying it's been done before on other games
5 minutes ago the same type were saying its impossible 😂
And even now there's people STILL saying what's shown in this tech demo is impossible 😂
i believe the splitting to different servers is new, but i know that games like Dark souls 1 had pretty similar area loading techneques to what they show for their streaming. FromSoft just utalized invisible hitboxed that unload and load areas, much like the zones themselves here.
Seems there are a lot of armchair network experts out there. Now I know if I'm ever developing my own video game I can clearly just recruit staff from the TH-cam comments. Seriously though, nearly any problem can be solved with a big enough budget.
The gaming industry has been very stagnant on innovation the past decade, this is a very innovative and ground breaking for the industry that its just what it needed, hope it can lead by example
This is probably the most important tech for the whole game.
I own the game but I'm waiting to start playing the game before server stops wiping, I want to earn my stuff ingame not buying offline for cash, with that said I do enjoy funding the game by buying stuff, so if servers stopped wiping I would be spending more money on the game.
They jacked the Gibson
To all the haters over the last 10 years, this was for you. We backed this game (myself in 2014) Because we believed in a vision that was to most, impossible. And here we are, finally seeing that it has become the possible. When everyone on the gaming world doubted the game and it’s vision. It’s truly the greatest CitizenCon we have ever had and there’s still another full day of it to come. The devs and CR must feel so good to finally see some light at the end of this long dark tunnel. I know a large majority of the community is ecstatic about what we have seen today. Some of us have never given up hope, though we have become jaded and bitter, the hope has never died. CIG has made a lot of us so happy and relieved. Not just from today, but this journey that we have been on together has been a wild ride and seeing this game come into a state where we can see major progress is just astounding. Kudos CIG. And kudos to those who have stuck around during the rough years. Get ready. This year is going to be nothing like we have ever seen.
B.s. dude. Everything they said we ALREADY KNEW ABOUT. Still nothing after how many years? Another 10 years for them to finish the game. Stop being a Whiteknight
@@kodiak1294 oh you knew pyro was coming next week to it’s own PTU? You knew server meshing was actually working and just needs to be scaled up? I might be a white night? But what does that make you? I sure don’t watch videos about games that I’m not interested in or have given up on. At least I’m honest to myself about my interests.
How much money have you spent on this scam? Be honest
Lets first see how this will play out on the absolutely insane huge scale they are aiming at
@@tslater2005 of course. But that’s my entire point. When they said no loading screens, seemless family from hab to ship out of atmo to space and to another planet. Everyone said it couldn’t be done on the scale it is now. Anyone who knows what the game actually does and how daunting of a task it was to get here, understands what has been achieved. Anyone how denies the accomplishments that have already been made are lying to themselves or they don’t understand game development.
Wow, they actually did it. Epic leap forward for the MMO gaming industry.
This guy's accent sounds like People in my family
He's german. Moved to the USA to work for CIG.
That delay of item spawning, god is the server running at 0.1 ticks per second?...
To be fair, he is running the client and server all from his laptop
@@CitizenFrost
Still embarrassing, actual video games need to be run on actual hardware. :V
@ThatZenoGuy for the purposes of the demo I think it was OK. But agree with you for the game generally that they'll need good hardware for this all to work.
2 records in 1 day showcasing that engine. World record longest spline travel ever captured in a game engine - 6 Billion km (engine was only capable of 16km maps when they got it) - and the 1st working prototype of Dynamic Server Meshing in the history of gaming/game engines. Im sure they are Quite embarrassed.@@ThatZenoGuy
Starfailed didnt even come close to touching this game
awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
looks like this is more of a game that one plays when they have nothing but free time to invest in it and take it all in,a casual player won't get enough out of it..imo
Can someone explain to me what all of this exactly means?
In a game as big as star citizen with so many ships and people there isnt a single server which can handle all the computing needed to make it all work. Millions of objects, ships and peolple across multiple planets and star systems interacting, Its just too much stuff over an area too big. But if you can take all those ships and people.. break them up into smaller groups and put them on a server of their own then everything will work just fine.
But then you have a problem. If everyone is on a different servr nobody will see each other or be able to interact with each other. The universe will feel empty.
So you then have to find a way to break up those people into groups on their own servers but still be able to interact.
So you instead give a server a small area to generate. And link those servers together so people can interact with others on their server and nearby servers with no transition or loading. That is server meshing.
So what he is showing is 3 areas.. all generated on different servers (denoted by the colours) but people from one server interacting with objects on a different server.
Later he shows that he can change the option to stream only what is necessary in nearby servers which is when things in the red server are no longer generated on the nearby purple server. This will reduce load on the red and purple servers if they dont need to generate things for those servers.
But overall this is good for the game. It will mean we coulf habe battles with thousands of players and everything would be smooth. A capital ship with hundreds of players might need 5 servers to generate the players objects etc but it would still feel like one big server.
Im sorry if this is still hard to follow, but I thought I would at least try to explain 😊
@@DivineArchirekt that was perfect. So what would the limitations be? How many people in one area would be feasible?
@@MrJeffharper47 hard to say. In theory the scalability should be endless once they move over to dynamic server meshing. What we see here is static server meshing. So stationary server meshing. One server controls an area and that is that. The limitations to that arr of course if too many players congregate in one area.
But the plan after this is to dynamically change the amount of space a single server controls.
To give an example. Lets say one server can comfortably serve 20 people. If you have a single large ship with 20 people in the cockpit The ship would generated by one server.
But.. if I add another 10 crew to the ship and put them in the engine room, with dynamic server meshing the replication layer will spin up another server and now the front of the ship will be on one server and the back will be on a second server.
So in theory the limitations should only be how many servers CIG can have access to for their needs, but in theory as they work with amazon warehouses full of servers they can rent on demand they should have unlimited numbers if servers at their disposal too.
Honestly I dont know enough about the tech to know what any of the pitfalls could be. Maybe a bottleneck in the replication layer but I am just a layman myself who just likes computers so I couldnt say. But in theory it is infinitely scalable and we could have thousands of players across hundreds of ships in one battle if we wanted. In theory.. haha
As a non technical expert I tend to think of this as spreading the load of the game across multiple servers, and joining all of those servers together into one big one. But that is a gross simplification.
@@CitizenFrost pretty accurate tho and definitely shorter than my explanation. 😁
Im totally psyched for it tho. I am one step closer to getting my hands on the big ships I paid an embarrasingly large amount of money for 🤣
There's the whale hook baited for another 10 years.
Can someone explain this to me like i'm 5
Imagine you're playing with a really big LEGO city with all your friends. Sometimes, the city gets so big and crowded that it's hard to play without things getting slow or messy. Server Meshing is like having a lot of grown-ups who help organize the LEGO city. They split the city into smaller parts and each grown-up takes care of one part. So, if you and your friends are playing in one area, you have one grown-up looking after you. If you move to another part of the city, another grown-up takes over. This way, everyone can play together without the city getting too crowded or slow. In Star Citizen, it's like having lots of grown-ups (servers) helping make sure everyone can play in the huge space world without any problems. -ChatGPT
Benoit and Paul please let me have your babies.
Starfield is such a joke sigh
For you maybe, lots of people are enjoying it, does that bother you? Sad.
buy an idris to show chris roberts how much you hate starfield!
Star Citizen is just in a completely different league. It's like comparing SNES to PS1. Starfield could still have been great but sadly it was undercooked.
>Burner account
Starfield is like going to the cinema and watch a cheap humor movie.. starcitizen is a full saga 3D 4khd, blond giving u a blowjob type os experience
Ha ha ha ;)
only 10 more years .
That's optimistic!
"It's just a scam."
"Collapse 90 days top for sure!!!" Prophets of doom keep being stupidly wrong years after years lol
4:54 “shart” 😂
When Chris admitted that he thought this tech was going to be in the game righr NOW, it just proves to me that he has no clue whats going on with his teams. Total incompetence as usual. They have no plan for any of this, its just lip service to hope to get more funding for their money making scheme. I mean how could he actually say that meshing is coming into the game right now? Think about that for a moment, huge red flag people. This project is nothing but a scam.
😂
Clown comment - they have been updating and keeping us in the loop as to the progress of Dynamic Server Meshing the entire way through including the current thing that is being tested -the Replication layer. Once Replication layer is integrated - then the testing Begins for the Static Server Meshing. NO version of Server meshing will be coming to SC before version 4.0 - but we dont know what part of 2024 4.0 will land. Theres One person who may think somebody said or meant its coming Now..but thats your own mistake. Nobody else is raging because nobody else made the same error.
@@hawkzulu5671 I can tell you're a new backer lol. I believed this same shit back in the day when chris told us SQ54 answer the call 2016! coming out in 2016! lol. you must be a new kiddo.
Ive been following along since that one space station Port Olisar was the only location in game I remember seeing the first planetary landing in SC in 2016 so i must have been following it for a few months by then- but started playing a bit over a year ago. @@Runescape.
Can't wait to never play it
Well said! One patch I asked someone "why has Chris broken this game?" and they replied "He never fixed it".
Ah yes. A performative show so they can continue to grift money out of people while doing nothing.
But they did a lot
@@OneTomato You can't expect people who say things like this to have watched the entire conference lol some of the things shown would actually hurt their little baby brain minds if they see it actually working. Physics engine alone was state of the art. Amazing presentation, can't wait to watch their next one whenever that may be.
Hahaha this will never work in real life conditions, and will totally fail in so so many ways.
Why do you think it wont work? I'm genuinely interested, but I'm not an expert in this tech in any way.
@@CitizenFrost this approach is proven to not work many times, from since at least project Darkstar in the 90s. And more recently Dual Universe. Why not? Many reasons but one is that you cannot stop the network traffic from exploding well beyond what can be handled. Also replication of fast moving objects across servers...So, if you go down that route the reality is that you will have thick lag and strict caps on number of players and objects that can interact.
@@TheWandererTiles Here is the thing sure is a really difficult task to do, makes sense they have been working it for years then, second they are showing a smaller scale working model here, so 2 takes from this it still needs to be tested at a bigger scale, but they did had a bigger demo that was not for the presentation they did say on planet system it has been tested, up to 500 players, so we have medium testing.
Now my biggest question is why is so many people interested on saying its imposible? checking how hard it is just for testing this tech the years checks out, and the tech is such an advanced useful one that I dont see why would anyone wants it to fail? sure this might be really difficult but what does people gain from such comments?
T%his sounds so hard as people want this project to fail to validate their "I was right it was a scam" ego, I wonder who will be more hurt backers if it doesnt deliver all (they are already playing something so they have some part of it already) or detractors if they succeed(that they have nothiong at this point other than negative comments)
@@EstebanBrenesV its pretty well known by now its impossible. IMHO what they should have done was go for a much more simple approach i.e. instances and entity limits, borders, loading screens, carefully designed planets and areas to minimize the effects of the limitations, and a vastly scaled back universe. But would that sell? Probably not so well.
@@TheWandererTiles sounds like they should have hired you for this, in the end we shall see which is it.
another tech demo yawn
This whole project is a tech demo so far, what were you expecting?
Yup, this game is never launching. This after 10 years? Chronicles of elyria did something similar and I knew it was a redflag then
Maybe. But this is the last PoC that needed proving.
It's nothing like Elyria. CoE. This is actually ground breaking, even if it took too long.
you don't understand how revolutionary this is. COE didnt do this or anything similar. they proved that this revolutionary tech works it is only matter of scale now
@@soyentak5076 Never talked about the tech, COE put out a bad demo, something basic to play around in, we see it here 4 player demo to show server meshing which is supposed to have 1000 players.
Sure
@@danielc9967 My guy, how do you expect them to cram 1000 players into a live demo. The whole point is to just show that the technology is possible. Obviously this will be scaled up.
Haters are always going to critique things they don’t understand. It’s just the way of the ill informed.
When you dye your hair so much that the chemicals start to warp the brain