i am not losing any sleep over whether he did or did not. not relevant really and nobody really cares now. however he got in a rocket car with a sidewinder missile attached and fired it.. legend..
Publicity stunt or not. Real Land speed record or not. Breaking the sound barrier or not. One thing, it takes balls of steel to get strapped into such a contraption and go full bore, so I take my hat off for that.
And for that reason I think most of us, whether we believe it or not, would be happy if Stan Barrett could actually say he did go supersonic. Unfortunately despite the efforts of this brave man, it didn't happen.
At the time the distinction between FIA record and "first car to go supersonic" was lost in the mix. Joe Public wasn't interested in the detail of land speed record methodology. Budwizer got all the positive PR they needed. None of that negates the extreme bravery of Stan Barrett, Rocket car= bomb on wheels. Thank you for posting this sir. Very well researched and narated.
The most mind boggling part of this amazing story is the sheer amount of MORONS involved in attempting to measure his speed which was the WHOLE POINT of the entire endeavor. 😳
To summarise then; Not enough evidence provided to back up the claim. Thank you for playing, it's been great having you here. Moving on to the next contestant........
If we didn't have Thrust SSC run to compare with this run it could be argued but the clearly heard sonic boom of SSC and you could see the pressure wave build up. The Rocket car probably did reach somewhere near the speed of sound but the SSC run I think proves it didn't exceed it
It seems to me that the FIA rules were designed to prevent exactly this sort of controversy. Weren’t the Budweiser team just setting themselves up for questions and uncertainty?
No sonic boom - that's pretty conclusive isn't it? Why did Chuck Yeager not address that point, instead of coming up with his fact-free, no-data speculation.
Chalmers "Slick" Goodlin had a sonic 'boom' on his last flight in the X-1. Are you saying that made him the first man faster than sound and not Yeager? At the time it was written off as some limited supersonic airflow over the top of the wings while the plane was on the verge of supersonic. Me? I've always be a bit skeptical of the 'breaking the sound barrier story' as normally told.
A lot of maybes. When the Thrust SSC broke the sound barrier, you could clearly see it had, without waiting for the data - the shockwave was visible on the surface of the lake bed. That car AVERAGED 763 mph over 2 measured miles.
While there is no actual proof this car broke the speed of sound, it did have 1/100 of a mile timing traps and they appear to have indicated it exceeded 660 MPH. That WAS faster than the existing Blue Flame speed record, but would not have been official in any event, as this car is often reported to not have had enough fuel to hold that speed for an entire kilometer or mile (the official lengths used in legitimate Land Speed Records depending on the sanctioning body), and no "second run the other direction" ever happened as required by all Land Speed Record sanctioning bodies. It would appear that this car MIGHT have been the fastest car ever (prior to Thrust SSC) but had no chance at any official record and did NOT in fact exceed the speed of sound.
He did not break the sound barrier, right no pressure wave no sound boom, BUT he went 735 mph. An incredible achievement! Bouncing down the flats. With a side winder, its a beautiful sight seeing the side winded light and lift the vehicle of the ground. An incredible feet. He was 35 mph short.
'Wheels of solid aluminium'... AND balls of solid aluminium to hit the sidewinder ignite button at 600mph!!! Incredible... What a machine, and what a driver. Thank you recommended.. Subscribed.
the first time I heard about this car, I thought that their record was not registered officially because of now meeting the requirements for land vehicle. now I know that they failed completely at measuring the speed and their claim is purely based on what they want to say. brave pilot, it's a shame he did not get to break the sound barrier.
When you take everything into consideration, from the professionalism of the engineers, the skill and bravery of the pilot, the planning, the manufacturing, even the size of the sponsors, it's a real pity that the recording methods were so amateurish. If you're attempting to attain a certain speed it's imperative that the recording methods are carried out with utmost professionalism, rather than the half arsed mess on show here.
As Marvin The Martian would say, "KABOOM...IT WAS SUPPOSED TO GO KABOOM...even if he missed it by a MPH or two...the dude had BALLS OF STEEL...Jesus Frikin Christ...back wheels lift up and he has to try and keep it under control by just the NOSE WHEEL...and its vibrating like a flag pole in a tornado...HUGE BALLS...hats off to the driver just for trying.
To be fair even if it did go mach, its shocking they are unable to reliably prove it. You get this type of argument with theologians, just because they say something happened (or exists) and then say its up to you to disprove it is a really poor way to argue particularly if you are going for a record. If it can not be independently proven to a reasonable degree it does not count. More so as Budweiser wanted it to go super sonic (for the publicity) you can argue the poor measuring/lack of independent measurement was deliberate.
Not going to be popular but the lack of sonic boom doesnt absolutely dismiss him going supersonic. If you look at car shape and “quiet spike” technology NASA is playing with for sonic boom-less commercial flight, they’re very similar. SSC had a huge cross section to create the boom, the way the Space Shuttle was so big it created a double boom as it reinterred...
Because they knew they hadn't achieved it... had they tried again, the stupid Air Force radar would have been used properly and they would have gotten egg in their faces.
It's a shame that the work and the ambition of the car, not to mention the huge cojones of Stan Barrett, is always overshadowed by the sound barrier debate. I don't care if it went supersonic, as I'm just amazed that the project was seen through to completion and run. I hope Bloodhound gets its chance.
Maybe he broke the sound barrier, and maybe he didn't. One thing's for certain though, he went a hell of a lot faster in that contraption than I would have!
If he'd done it, but there was a problem with the timing apparatus, he'd have surely done it again & made damned sure the timing apparatus was working. For me, he may well have had trans-sonic shock waves around the car, but that not the same as the car going supersonic. No sonic boom = no supersonic travel, especially in the absence of any proof.
If he had there would be no reason to refuse access to the data. No other reasonable conclusion can be made. Also the lack of sonic boom is pretty damning. Trans sonic I'd believe
I remember this when the "record" was made and I believe the only controversy was that it didn't go supersonic on the return leg. So for all practical purposes, it was the first road vehicle or motorcycle to break the sound barrier, even if the record was not recognized officially.
At the very least, they can lay claim they may have touched 700mph. The footage showing the end of the burn proves they didn't hit Mach 1 (anyone see a shockwave like Thrust SSC made?). Not to mention that a shockwave would have hit that cameraman since he was in just the right spot for the peak. Never heard of anyone claiming they heard a bang, especially not from that perfect position to hear and feel it. If they really want to prove it was done...do it again, or drop it.
Looking at these video shots of his record claiming run...I don't think that vehicle went Supersonic the 731.9 mph required on that day. As there was simply no shock waves surrounding the vehicle or on the ground close by the vehicle, as was seen with Thrust SSC's Supersonic run in 1997...But Stan went awful bloody fast that day in 1979 riding that Sidewinder Rocket For Sure!!!!
I used to hear sonic booms as a kid growing by the Cali coast in the '60s (they were outlawed over populated areas later). Probably testing and training missions. This, it was said a sonic boom was heard miles away. Not an expert but this is plausible. I'll lift a RW&B Bud in honor of this achievement. Pretty great.
@@nathanchildress5596 can hear the tip of a bullwhip go supersonic. The car failed to break the sound barrier. First car supersonic on land was Thrust SSC.
@@nathanchildress5596 It would make no difference at that viewing distance. The Bud Rocket should still make a very sizeable bang. The profile might have been a lot smaller but 1) it produced a lot of supersonic base drag and an associated shockwave and 2) Thrust SSC broke windows 20 kilometres away.
As ever the rocket is controversial. One thing to bear in mind here. Needham was a PR man, he was also contracted to receive a bunch of bonus money if the car went supersonic, factor that into all the guff here and you can see why there is severe scepticism. The timing, the lack of any data at all, the rather odd way of timing, the way the Air Force crafted their letter to not involve them in the result, especially without evidence. No doubt Barrett is perhaps the bravest LSR pilot of them all, and the car is beautifully made and did its job well. But it never broke the barrier, there is no evidence that it did, and never will be unless someone comes out and says so. And they will not or Budweiser lose face as do the people who did all of this. If they are still alive! Sadly all you will get on here is the usual suspects stating fact without data, and people like us Brits, saying we did it legally and that is all that matters lol!
@@fraudsarentfriends4717 So? You can’t measure Mach number with radar. At least if you point it at the sky there’s not much risk of tracking a truck by mistake.
@@thethirdman225 The accusation that the radar never clocked the speed and instead a truck is entirely new and unverified. It is a claim made solely by this video narrator and uploader and no official from the U.S. Airforce. Sidewinder missiles break the sound barrier without sonic booms all the time. The British accent is very suspect with Bias.
@@fraudsarentfriends4717 it’s better verified that SOS’s claim that they went supersonic. It’s not my job to verify anything much. The SOS team and its supporters seem to think its everyone else’s job to prove their claim wrong. Let me put it this way: I am the world record holder for the 100 metres. Prove me wrong. See? Either I’m Usain Bolt or I’m pulling your leg. Either way, if I was totally serious, you’d want more than just my word for it and I’m pretty sure you’d say it wasn’t your job to prove conclusively that I’m not Usain Bolt. Records are just that: a matter of record. They are not ever a matter of what if or speculation or conjecture. So I don’t really care about radar stories or any of that other bunk. As I said, the USAF disavowed any association with the project and the final claim was made from accelerometer data. No other data was considered, including that from the pitot head, which is the one instrument which would have recorded a Mach event because of the pressure changes. Funny how nobody ever talks about that.
Whether the Bud rocket did or didn't go faster than the speed of sound is a moot point. It wouldn't be recognized as a record anyway. Aside from that, what a wicked ride! Don't know how they fit Stan Barrett's balls in that thing! In other news, nothing but crickets from the "Bloodhound" camp.?
@@poruatokin You need a paper document to think for you? Use your head. The car had run nearly 700 without the sidewinder. I believe it most probably did at least 700.
@@poruatokin I'm not talking anything other than what it probably did. I have eyes and I know what it was capable of without the solid rocket. I think it probably did about 700. Want to fight about it?
@@digitalblasphemy1100 What is there to fight about? Without ratification by calibrated measurements and with two runs in opposing directions in accordance with the Land Speed Record as set by the international governing body, the FIA, you are STILL talking bollocks. The Budweiser ripoff published speed was not officially sanctioned by the USAF, as the Digital Instrument Radar was not calibrated or certified. The radar information was not generated using the vehicle directly but by an operator aiming aiming a dish using a TV screen. Or in other words, no one on this planet has a clue how fast Stan Barrett traveled, but since he only did it one way we can certainly be sure he never set a record. I really couldn't give a shit what you think.
My take on this is pretty simple - if you can't prove it then you didn't do it. The fact that the data from which the claim is based was never submitted for independent scrutiny speaks volumes. I suspect they went very fast - 700+mph fast - but they didn't break the sound barrier.
Stan Barrett and Hal Needham were Hollywood stuntmen who were given an advertising brief by a company that wants to sell more beer. So obviously they broke the sound barrier. Love and peace.
@@Aaron-os6gc The story goes that the Comet Rocket Fighter did, but I do not believe that. Also, a nosediving, crashing, fighter, might have, but how would you measure it. I still say that the Bell X-1 was first.
Why do they need to make all these complex measurements to determine if the car has exceeded the speed of sound? If you hear a sonic boom that means it exceeded the speed of sound. Simple!
The fact that there was an eight hour delay in making the claim indicates the team's doubt about his true peak speed. Furthermore, whether he exceeded the speed of sound or not, he bent the internationally accepted rules beyond any recognition, and didn't have any reliable data to say what speed he really reached, so no proper claim can be made. We'll never know what he did, and the answer is irrelevant.
If you cant even set up an accurate timing system to prove the speed of your car, then that's monumentally inept team organisation. I've never heard of any other LSR record attempt that failed such a basic task.
That they could build a car capable of breaking the sound barrier and NOT have the necessary speed detection equipment is ridiculous. Like so many things I've seen they went 90% in but not 100% and for that reason, in addition to the lack of sonic boom, the sketchy IMU data that's never been released, and the timing results that have also never been released its a no brainer -- they did NOT break the sound barrier and if they did there is no reliable evidence they did. So close...
There was and is absolutely NO controversy about this record. NOBODY is arguing that The Rocket did not go supersonic! It only missed out on the official record because they did not do two runs in an hour. The speed was verified by the same people who monitor X-plane speeds and altitudes! FILTHY LIES!
@@powderslinger5968 Your opinion does not fit the evidence presented here & this presentation is the most accurate & unbiased I have ever seen.. I live & breath LSR where shoulda woulda coulda & probably are just more uncertified noise.
The only problem i have is with all the controversy, why didn't they make another attempt with more & better timing equipment. Also they couldn't design the car 4' maybe 5' longer to hold more fuel to hold Mach 1 longer for maybe a mile or more??
j g I was responding to Guy Smalley claiming that there ‘are a few unhappy brits on here’, far from it, all the brits are delighted they are the first to take a car supersonic. I was merely pointing out that it’s the yanks that are unhappy, since they failed in their endeavour. You’re welcome.
This is such a great channel. Ty. I’m slowly working through the model cars of my youth. Keep going. There are so many great stories, notwithstanding histories of the places themselves, like Bonneville. Sacred ground mate.
If the car wasn't able to fulfill the requirements of the established rules then it really doesn't matter if they went supersonic or not. They DON'T get credit for the effort.
Okay, so they can't prove that they went supersonic in that run. Did it not occur to any of them to simply fix the problems with the timing equipment and make another run?!?
N1RKW or better yet, why didn't they simply use a timing Beam like every other record car in the history of record cars. Everyone, from Arfons to Breedlove, to Campbell to Noble, all used timing beams. I wonder why this team didn't? Actually, I don't wonder why. Anyone with a brain knows why they didn't.
@@RB747domme I suspect that you are correct. Unproven records can still become legendary (as this one seems to have) and in doing so becomes an even bigger ad for the major company that sponsored it.
@@AIM54A Really and what do you know about Radar??? Did you know that the radar in question couldn't automatically follow the car due to its small radar cross section, but had to be aimed by a man using a joystick and a TV camera!!!! Having had to operate equipment on an electronic warfare range in the same manner, I wouldn't claim anything using that method of tracking to work out the speed of something. Too many errors induced by the man in the radar!!! Anyhow if you want to use radar to track anything when doing a trial to work out its speed, you use a Doppler Transponder radar system with Automatic tracking. This is what is used when testing missiles and it involves fitting a doppler transponder to the thing you want to measure the velocity of.
I'm sorry but if you don't hear that tell tale crack, you didn't break the sound barrier. Plus you don't see any kind of high pressure compression wave on any point of the car at max speed in the video, even in dry conditions you'd see some distortion at those speeds. One thing I notice, very evident at 9:37 is the nozzle wasn't appropriately shaped for the elevation they were running. Had it been properly shaped to make the max amount of thrust capable at that elevation, the exhaust wouldn't have been squeezing in on itself before expanding back out. It would've been a clean shape. That nozzle was meant for use at altitude with lower air pressure. (watch Scott Manley's video describing nozzle shape and Mach Diamonds)
At 9:37 that shows a perfectly expanded nozzle. Its not over or under expanded. If you don't understand what your talking about you might refrain from looking like someone that doesn't know what they're talking about. A nozzle designed for high altitude has a much larger bell on it so the gases can be expanded to the air pressure at that operating altitude. In this case they're expanded the nozzle to about sea level.
Well, it seems to me that a tape from 1979 may or may not carry enough fidelity to hear the crack. The Thrust SSC crack was hard to hear over much higher fidelity video and sound. The much smaller and more aerodynamic Bud Special may have created a sonic "boom" that could not be heard over the rocket motor and wind on a 1979 tape 40 years later. As for the nozzle design, I expect it was correct for the car and altitude. These guys knew their business, and this was 10 years after the Blue Flame went 662 mph. I would think that an engineer with the actual nozzle in hand would be the only one able to tell us definitively if there was an issue with it.
Might have been good to have an aerial view of the event. The disturbance to surface just behind the vehicle nose and visible as line perpendicular to travel - as seen with SSC - would help the argument. Audible sound is tricky as a clue at low altitude. Someone at some distance should have heard a ‘whooping’ noise and crack… But I cannot count it out, they may have done it. We are left with one of those, ‘did Mallory reach the summit of Everest?’ things.
wow! I've been watching some of your videos but this is the first time I've checked the comments. there are so many angry people here! Never would have guessed, considering how mellow your delivery is. people sure are upset about this record.
Never heard the sonic boom in the footage, to hear a sonic boom fast forward to 1997 with Thrust SSC (current record holder) and to see our own record (Great Britain) beaten fast forward to 2020 with bloodhound SSC. They have just finished testing and managed 628mph IN TESTS!! and that was without the rocket engine. sorry chaps, Great Britain were first to go super sonic on land and hopefully we'll keep that record for many years to come! 'whispers' "good luck trying"
ArcturanMegadonkey they have changed to be lsr instead of ssc now it’s changed ownership 😜 but yes when they fire up the rocket as well as the jet we we hopefully brake it
@@FreightLocos Could have knocked a year off WW2 if the silly bloody Poms had woken up and funded Whittle properly in the 30s when he was developing it. No hindsight required.
My brother called one morning in 1980, the Budweiser SOS rocket car was on our property. The car was being towed across country in a customized glider trailer. The tow vehicle had come in for a bit of unscheduled service. I hustled over and got an up close tour. Made my day.
Burden of proof lies with the claimant. If you decide to disregard all established measurement rules of official land speed records, and then turn up with a bunch of inconclusive data, that's just your own damn fault then.
If there was no boom then this rocket-powered car did not reach the speed of sound! I never heard a boom in this video. Actually I never heard anything but talking in this video!
Nope. Brave attempt marred by the incompetence of those measuring the speed. If they could measure properly and given good data to the team they could have tweaked the car and maybe broke it after a few runs. Very frustrating.
Face it: If he had succeeded, the data would have been released. If there's no data. he didn't succeed. If they won't release the data, he failed. You can SAY he succeeded all you want. PROVE it or shut up.
Well if there's a question about the record, the car is sitting in a Motor Museum in Alabama, let's go get it and run it down the street one more time. 🤪
17 m/s. I can beat that speed on my bike. Just in one direction (down hill), but that’s the way they run their car, too. Badly set up speed traps, sensor not meant to integrate their values, a messed up radar and some post-hoc data wrangling, and the opinion of one test pilot. Not good enough.
@Straight Shooter The only idiot here is you. The footage showing Thrust SSC breaking the sound barrier and producing sonic booms (yes, not one, but *two* booms were heard) is a well known *fact*. The same is most definitely *not* true with the Budweiser Rocket. Deal with the reality that Great Britain broke the sound barrier on land first... and did it on American soil too.
It seems to me highly appropriate that the controversy that surrounds whether the Budweiser Rocket actual broke the speed of sound overshadows the project itself. It is, after all, an extremely bold claim, driven by commercial interests and was done without scrutiny by independent observers and a deficit of actual reliable data. That it's controversial is entirely down to decisions the team made over these matters. The rest of it is interesting, but the status of the claim is surely paramount.
Chuck Yeager is not an engineer and he never went to college. Just because you were the first pilot to break the sound barrier does not make you an expert on transonic speed measurement. Why would they not have fully instrumented the vehicle with both a nose-boom & tail mounted pitot-static system??
Why does not having gone to college automatically disqualify him from technical knowledge or valuable experienced-based intuition? I did go to fucking college, and I can tell you that I learned more from reading the textbooks beyond the assignment out of personal curiosity than I did with actual assigned work. But I guess old Chuck couldn't read, either, right? You have to have an institution charge you thousands of dollars for that privilege.
I did not hear a sonic boom in the video and why did they just not have a timed measured mile ? All sounds rather suspicious, more of a marketing stunt for Bud, me thinks. All previous land speed records going way back to the 1920's had measured miles ? therefore, Sadly the first car to have broken the Sound Barrier has to go to the Brits for Thrust SSC with Andy Green in 1997, they did it with a measured mile and in both directions and you can clearly hear the sonic boom in the video.
Because it was only ever intended as an _event._ The only thing they were interested in was going supersonic. But since there was no sonic bang hear, it's pretty clear they didn't, regardless of the opinions of Pete Knight and Chuck Yeager. Thrust SSC was a genuine supersonic run in both directions and was the first land vehicle to travel supersonic.
Oh look, the team declared they broke the sound barrier, I'm shocked. Not that there was any pressure from Budweiser for that particular result. Budweiser: we have one condition for sponsorship, break the he sound barrier.
They built the car, made many innovations, ran it 19 times building up to speed, went really fast, and didn't kill the driver.
Complete success.
i am not losing any sleep over whether he did or did not. not relevant really and nobody really cares now. however he got in a rocket car with a sidewinder missile attached and fired it.. legend..
Ya I always wonder how some of these guys and women are able to fit in these small chassis cars with such giant balls.
Go to all the effort of building a incredible car, but cant be bothered recording anything properly. What a screw up.
Ever seen a Hal Needham movie?
The data they never released would have proven they never went supersonic. It's as easy as that.
Publicity stunt or not. Real Land speed record or not. Breaking the sound barrier or not.
One thing, it takes balls of steel to get strapped into such a contraption and go full bore, so I take my hat off for that.
And for that reason I think most of us, whether we believe it or not, would be happy if Stan Barrett could actually say he did go supersonic. Unfortunately despite the efforts of this brave man, it didn't happen.
It's all about gonads and bottoms with you people, isn't it?
@@dunruden9720 maybe 😀
At the time the distinction between
FIA record and "first car to go supersonic" was lost in the mix. Joe Public wasn't interested in the detail of land speed record methodology. Budwizer got all the positive PR they needed. None of that negates the extreme bravery of Stan Barrett, Rocket car= bomb on wheels. Thank you for posting this sir. Very well researched and narated.
The most mind boggling part of this amazing story is the sheer amount of MORONS involved in attempting to measure his speed which was the WHOLE POINT of the entire endeavor. 😳
To summarise then; Not enough evidence provided to back up the claim. Thank you for playing, it's been great having you here. Moving on to the next contestant........
If we didn't have Thrust SSC run to compare with this run it could be argued but the clearly heard sonic boom of SSC and you could see the pressure wave build up. The Rocket car probably did reach somewhere near the speed of sound but the SSC run I think proves it didn't exceed it
Agreed 100% This was a brave and gutsy attempt but not a supersonic one.
1979, very cool, very ballsy, that being said...agreed, it didn't get to the speed of sound.
It seems to me that the FIA rules were designed to prevent exactly this sort of controversy. Weren’t the Budweiser team just setting themselves up for questions and uncertainty?
No sonic boom - that's pretty conclusive isn't it?
Why did Chuck Yeager not address that point, instead of coming up with his fact-free, no-data speculation.
Chalmers "Slick" Goodlin had a sonic 'boom' on his last flight in the X-1. Are you saying that made him the first man faster than sound and not Yeager? At the time it was written off as some limited supersonic airflow over the top of the wings while the plane was on the verge of supersonic. Me? I've always be a bit skeptical of the 'breaking the sound barrier story' as normally told.
A lot of maybes.
When the Thrust SSC broke the sound barrier, you could clearly see it had, without waiting for the data - the shockwave was visible on the surface of the lake bed.
That car AVERAGED 763 mph over 2 measured miles.
While there is no actual proof this car broke the speed of sound, it did have 1/100 of a mile timing traps and they appear to have indicated it exceeded 660 MPH.
That WAS faster than the existing Blue Flame speed record, but would not have been official in any event, as this car is often reported to not have had enough fuel to hold that speed for an entire kilometer or mile (the official lengths used in legitimate Land Speed Records depending on the sanctioning body), and no "second run the other direction" ever happened as required by all Land Speed Record sanctioning bodies.
It would appear that this car MIGHT have been the fastest car ever (prior to Thrust SSC) but had no chance at any official record and did NOT in fact exceed the speed of sound.
Did anyone hear a sonic boom?
@@nissimlevy3762 The claims about that are conflicting.
He did not break the sound barrier, right no pressure wave no sound boom, BUT he went 735 mph. An incredible achievement! Bouncing down the flats. With a side winder, its a beautiful sight seeing the side winded light and lift the vehicle of the ground. An incredible feet. He was 35 mph short.
'Wheels of solid aluminium'... AND balls of solid aluminium to hit the sidewinder ignite button at 600mph!!! Incredible... What a machine, and what a driver. Thank you recommended.. Subscribed.
Matthias(Hi-5/Dope or Nope)'s grandfather made that rocket car.
yep
the first time I heard about this car, I thought that their record was not registered officially because of now meeting the requirements for land vehicle. now I know that they failed completely at measuring the speed and their claim is purely based on what they want to say. brave pilot, it's a shame he did not get to break the sound barrier.
When you take everything into consideration, from the professionalism of the engineers, the skill and bravery of the pilot, the planning, the manufacturing, even the size of the sponsors, it's a real pity that the recording methods were so amateurish.
If you're attempting to attain a certain speed it's imperative that the recording methods are carried out with utmost professionalism, rather than the half arsed mess on show here.
They didn't need recording methods or 2 way runs as they wanted the the publicity of the sound barrier. The proof was supposed to be the sonic boom.
This is not a car, it's a tricycle! And where was the sonic boom, like Thrust SSC? Still, a lot of bravery by the driver!
As Marvin The Martian would say, "KABOOM...IT WAS SUPPOSED TO GO KABOOM...even if he missed it by a MPH or two...the dude had BALLS OF STEEL...Jesus Frikin Christ...back wheels lift up and he has to try and keep it under control by just the NOSE WHEEL...and its vibrating like a flag pole in a tornado...HUGE BALLS...hats off to the driver just for trying.
When SSC broke the sound barrier it was interesting to see the pressure wave travel across the surface.
Who hasn't wanted to strap a Sidewinder to there car.
Me.
Lmao
To be fair even if it did go mach, its shocking they are unable to reliably prove it. You get this type of argument with theologians, just because they say something happened (or exists) and then say its up to you to disprove it is a really poor way to argue particularly if you are going for a record. If it can not be independently proven to a reasonable degree it does not count. More so as Budweiser wanted it to go super sonic (for the publicity) you can argue the poor measuring/lack of independent measurement was deliberate.
Not going to be popular but the lack of sonic boom doesnt absolutely dismiss him going supersonic. If you look at car shape and “quiet spike” technology NASA is playing with for sonic boom-less commercial flight, they’re very similar. SSC had a huge cross section to create the boom, the way the Space Shuttle was so big it created a double boom as it reinterred...
Why didn’t they just do it again? They ran it 18 times before this, why not run it a 20th time?
Because it was Budweiser time obviously lol
Because they knew they hadn't achieved it... had they tried again, the stupid Air Force radar would have been used properly and they would have gotten egg in their faces.
@@ernestogasulla7763 Whatever Ernesto
They only had one sidewinder missile engine
@@JG-dx5wi The Sidewinder missile would have made little difference. Thrust increase was only of the order of 25% and they needed more than that.
The lack of technical data to support the barrier being broken tells you all you need to know. Probably isn't definitely. Courageous effort though.
It's a shame that the work and the ambition of the car, not to mention the huge cojones of Stan Barrett, is always overshadowed by the sound barrier debate. I don't care if it went supersonic, as I'm just amazed that the project was seen through to completion and run. I hope Bloodhound gets its chance.
I agree but if it was so good why did he keep trying to be Undisputed the was a one shot attempt I'd say publicity for Budweiser beer.
Maybe he broke the sound barrier, and maybe he didn't. One thing's for certain though, he went a hell of a lot faster in that contraption than I would have!
If he'd done it, but there was a problem with the timing apparatus, he'd have surely done it again & made damned sure the timing apparatus was working.
For me, he may well have had trans-sonic shock waves around the car, but that not the same as the car going supersonic.
No sonic boom = no supersonic travel, especially in the absence of any proof.
If he had there would be no reason to refuse access to the data. No other reasonable conclusion can be made. Also the lack of sonic boom is pretty damning. Trans sonic I'd believe
I'm more impressed by the fact that he fit in the car, with as big of balls he has.
I remember this when the "record" was made and I believe the only controversy was that it didn't go supersonic on the return leg. So for all practical purposes, it was the first road vehicle or motorcycle to break the sound barrier, even if the record was not recognized officially.
There was no return trip.
At the very least, they can lay claim they may have touched 700mph. The footage showing the end of the burn proves they didn't hit Mach 1 (anyone see a shockwave like Thrust SSC made?). Not to mention that a shockwave would have hit that cameraman since he was in just the right spot for the peak. Never heard of anyone claiming they heard a bang, especially not from that perfect position to hear and feel it. If they really want to prove it was done...do it again, or drop it.
With the very same car in the same condition as it was in 1079
As it was in 1979
Looking at these video shots of his record claiming run...I don't think that vehicle went Supersonic the 731.9 mph required on that day. As there was simply no shock waves surrounding the vehicle or on the ground close by the vehicle, as was seen with Thrust SSC's Supersonic run in 1997...But Stan went awful bloody fast that day in 1979 riding that Sidewinder Rocket For Sure!!!!
Exactly. But: no sonic boom, no speed of sound. Quiet easy. Just listen to the one of Thrust SSC. :)
I used to hear sonic booms as a kid growing by the Cali coast in the '60s (they were outlawed over populated areas later). Probably testing and training missions.
This, it was said a sonic boom was heard miles away. Not an expert but this is plausible.
I'll lift a RW&B Bud in honor of this achievement. Pretty great.
No sonic boom is the definitive answer for me.
True, that's usually the proof, even without instruments.
Cross section makes all the difference. A bullet goes supersonic, but you can’t hear it over a rocket. This thing is like the width of a pencil!
@@nathanchildress5596 can hear the tip of a bullwhip go supersonic.
The car failed to break the sound barrier.
First car supersonic on land was Thrust SSC.
@@nathanchildress5596 It would make no difference at that viewing distance. The Bud Rocket should still make a very sizeable bang. The profile might have been a lot smaller but 1) it produced a lot of supersonic base drag and an associated shockwave and 2) Thrust SSC broke windows 20 kilometres away.
As ever the rocket is controversial. One thing to bear in mind here. Needham was a PR man, he was also contracted to receive a bunch of bonus money if the car went supersonic, factor that into all the guff here and you can see why there is severe scepticism. The timing, the lack of any data at all, the rather odd way of timing, the way the Air Force crafted their letter to not involve them in the result, especially without evidence. No doubt Barrett is perhaps the bravest LSR pilot of them all, and the car is beautifully made and did its job well.
But it never broke the barrier, there is no evidence that it did, and never will be unless someone comes out and says so. And they will not or Budweiser lose face as do the people who did all of this. If they are still alive!
Sadly all you will get on here is the usual suspects stating fact without data, and people like us Brits, saying we did it legally and that is all that matters lol!
And the total lack of a sonic boom and the clearly visible shock-wave across the lake bed, as with the SSC!
If they claimed it went SS then why didn't they try again with correct timing gear ?.... That's what everybody else did... Why didn't these guys ?
??? They used he same timing gear Chuck Yeager used to beak his record.
@@fraudsarentfriends4717 So? You can’t measure Mach number with radar. At least if you point it at the sky there’s not much risk of tracking a truck by mistake.
@@thethirdman225 The accusation that the radar never clocked the speed and instead a truck is entirely new and unverified. It is a claim made solely by this video narrator and uploader and no official from the U.S. Airforce. Sidewinder missiles break the sound barrier without sonic booms all the time. The British accent is very suspect with Bias.
@@fraudsarentfriends4717 it’s better verified that SOS’s claim that they went supersonic. It’s not my job to verify anything much. The SOS team and its supporters seem to think its everyone else’s job to prove their claim wrong. Let me put it this way: I am the world record holder for the 100 metres. Prove me wrong.
See?
Either I’m Usain Bolt or I’m pulling your leg. Either way, if I was totally serious, you’d want more than just my word for it and I’m pretty sure you’d say it wasn’t your job to prove conclusively that I’m not Usain Bolt.
Records are just that: a matter of record. They are not ever a matter of what if or speculation or conjecture. So I don’t really care about radar stories or any of that other bunk. As I said, the USAF disavowed any association with the project and the final claim was made from accelerometer data. No other data was considered, including that from the pitot head, which is the one instrument which would have recorded a Mach event because of the pressure changes. Funny how nobody ever talks about that.
Whether the Bud rocket did or didn't go faster than the speed of sound is a moot point. It wouldn't be recognized as a record anyway. Aside from that, what a wicked ride! Don't know how they fit Stan Barrett's balls in that thing! In other news, nothing but crickets from the "Bloodhound" camp.?
It would still be the first supersonic car.
Correct. Bloodhound has until now been a failure.
whatever the controversy, on that day, that car was the fastest thing on land in human history
I don't think that's debatable
Sorry, can't be without evidence to back it up.
@@poruatokin You need a paper document to think for you? Use your head. The car had run nearly 700 without the sidewinder. I believe it most probably did at least 700.
@@digitalblasphemy1100 Believe what you like, without official ratification you are talking bollocks
@@poruatokin I'm not talking anything other than what it probably did. I have eyes and I know what it was capable of without the solid rocket. I think it probably did about 700. Want to fight about it?
@@digitalblasphemy1100 What is there to fight about? Without ratification by calibrated measurements and with two runs in opposing directions in accordance with the Land Speed Record as set by the international governing body, the FIA, you are STILL talking bollocks.
The Budweiser ripoff published speed was not officially sanctioned by the USAF, as the Digital Instrument Radar was not calibrated or certified. The radar information was not generated using the vehicle directly but by an operator aiming aiming a dish using a TV screen. Or in other words, no one on this planet has a clue how fast Stan Barrett traveled, but since he only did it one way we can certainly be sure he never set a record.
I really couldn't give a shit what you think.
This channel's presentation is superb.
Got to admit, that’s some pretty amazing acceleration for a car designed for top speed.
Agreed even if he didn't break the sound barrier its extremely impressive and catch's my breath each time i watch
My take on this is pretty simple - if you can't prove it then you didn't do it. The fact that the data from which the claim is based was never submitted for independent scrutiny speaks volumes. I suspect they went very fast - 700+mph fast - but they didn't break the sound barrier.
Stan Barrett and Hal Needham were Hollywood stuntmen who were given an advertising brief by a company that wants to sell more beer. So obviously they broke the sound barrier. Love and peace.
No boom? No zoom!
No data no deal
No ticky, no washy...
2:50 - Loving the Datsun 280ZX in the foreground. I'm an old Z car nut!
Same here!!! I love it!!
Chuck Yeager was not the first to break the sound barrier in a plane just the first officially recognized. Kind of what all this is about.
alright I'm ready for it, who was the first unofficial person? This sounds like a crock of shit to me.
@@Aaron-os6gc The story goes that the Comet Rocket Fighter did, but I do not believe that. Also, a nosediving, crashing, fighter, might have, but how would you measure it. I still say that the Bell X-1 was first.
Budweiser also make some pretty dubious claims about their primary product.
So crazy, making an attempt to reach a certain speed and they are relying on on one radar gun only?? Cool event to watch, but so disappointing.
Why do they need to make all these complex measurements to determine if the car has exceeded the speed of sound? If you hear a sonic boom that means it exceeded the speed of sound. Simple!
What a brilliant channel, these crazy cars bring back so many memories reading car facts and feats
The fact that there was an eight hour delay in making the claim indicates the team's doubt about his true peak speed. Furthermore, whether he exceeded the speed of sound or not, he bent the internationally accepted rules beyond any recognition, and didn't have any reliable data to say what speed he really reached, so no proper claim can be made. We'll never know what he did, and the answer is irrelevant.
If you cant even set up an accurate timing system to prove the speed of your car, then that's monumentally inept team organisation. I've never heard of any other LSR record attempt that failed such a basic task.
It wasn't a record attempt as the FIA wasnt present.
38 miles per hour.......
Timed over a distance of around 52 feet WTF !!!!!!!! No proper ACCURATE timing and no sonic boom so no sound barrier
And how did they know where to put the timing gate?
That they could build a car capable of breaking the sound barrier and NOT have the necessary speed detection equipment is ridiculous. Like so many things I've seen they went 90% in but not 100% and for that reason, in addition to the lack of sonic boom, the sketchy IMU data that's never been released, and the timing results that have also never been released its a no brainer -- they did NOT break the sound barrier and if they did there is no reliable evidence they did. So close...
They must’ve started testing the sponsors product before they made it that far
Wow! That was insanely brave or stupid. But I can't believe it went supersonic. No sonic boom. No visible shock waves. Great attempt though.
Thanks, this is a fair presentation of arguments pro and con.
There was and is absolutely NO controversy about this record. NOBODY is arguing that The Rocket did not go supersonic! It only missed out on the official record because they did not do two runs in an hour. The speed was verified by the same people who monitor X-plane speeds and altitudes! FILTHY LIES!
@@powderslinger5968 Your opinion does not fit the evidence presented here & this presentation is the most accurate & unbiased I have ever seen.. I live & breath LSR where shoulda woulda coulda & probably are just more uncertified noise.
Chuck Yeager is THE MAN! Gotta love Chuck Yeager. An amazing person.
I've met him. I was a bit disappointed, actually. Bob Hoover was more impressive. Nice guy.
The only problem i have is with all the controversy, why didn't they make another attempt with more & better timing equipment. Also they couldn't design the car 4' maybe 5' longer to hold more fuel to hold Mach 1 longer for maybe a mile or more??
Aerospace Engineer here. My conclusion is no. Close but no cigar.
Any vehicle that goes over 700 mph is not a publicity stunt, sounds like a few unhappy brits on this post
up yours!
But far more unhappy yanks... no sonic boom = no supersonic speeds. And the USAF recording 38 mph ha ha. Go cry into your milk.
Man, POHMs get butt hurt pretty easily don’t they.
@@effortlessly far more unhappy yanks? Didn't realize everyone was announcing their nationality. Quit making assumptions.
j g I was responding to Guy Smalley claiming that there ‘are a few unhappy brits on here’, far from it, all the brits are delighted they are the first to take a car supersonic. I was merely pointing out that it’s the yanks that are unhappy, since they failed in their endeavour. You’re welcome.
Just baught a 1980 card game with this and other rocket racers from my childhood. Thanks for sharing this video !!!!!!!!! :)
Only way to be sure is to test it again to see if it can actually do it...
One sure thing is for the year it ran it was an outstanding independent run. As far as the record rules are rules
This is such a great channel. Ty. I’m slowly working through the model cars of my youth. Keep going. There are so many great stories, notwithstanding histories of the places themselves, like Bonneville. Sacred ground mate.
Thank you!
If the car wasn't able to fulfill the requirements of the established rules then it really doesn't matter if they went supersonic or not. They DON'T get credit for the effort.
They get credit from me for the effort. It's insane!
Okay, so they can't prove that they went supersonic in that run. Did it not occur to any of them to simply fix the problems with the timing equipment and make another run?!?
N1RKW or better yet, why didn't they simply use a timing Beam like every other record car in the history of record cars. Everyone, from Arfons to Breedlove, to Campbell to Noble, all used timing beams. I wonder why this team didn't?
Actually, I don't wonder why. Anyone with a brain knows why they didn't.
@@RB747domme I suspect that you are correct. Unproven records can still become legendary (as this one seems to have) and in doing so becomes an even bigger ad for the major company that sponsored it.
@@RB747domme anyone with a brain, or even anyone who listened to the video properly wouldn't make a stupid comment like that.
They used radar to track the car and its speed was certified.
@@AIM54A Really and what do you know about Radar??? Did you know that the radar in question couldn't automatically follow the car due to its small radar cross section, but had to be aimed by a man using a joystick and a TV camera!!!! Having had to operate equipment on an electronic warfare range in the same manner, I wouldn't claim anything using that method of tracking to work out the speed of something. Too many errors induced by the man in the radar!!! Anyhow if you want to use radar to track anything when doing a trial to work out its speed, you use a Doppler Transponder radar system with Automatic tracking. This is what is used when testing missiles and it involves fitting a doppler transponder to the thing you want to measure the velocity of.
I'm sorry but if you don't hear that tell tale crack, you didn't break the sound barrier. Plus you don't see any kind of high pressure compression wave on any point of the car at max speed in the video, even in dry conditions you'd see some distortion at those speeds.
One thing I notice, very evident at 9:37 is the nozzle wasn't appropriately shaped for the elevation they were running. Had it been properly shaped to make the max amount of thrust capable at that elevation, the exhaust wouldn't have been squeezing in on itself before expanding back out. It would've been a clean shape. That nozzle was meant for use at altitude with lower air pressure. (watch Scott Manley's video describing nozzle shape and Mach Diamonds)
Just curious - are you an engineer at ULA or SpaceX?
At 9:37 that shows a perfectly expanded nozzle. Its not over or under expanded. If you don't understand what your talking about you might refrain from looking like someone that doesn't know what they're talking about. A nozzle designed for high altitude has a much larger bell on it so the gases can be expanded to the air pressure at that operating altitude. In this case they're expanded the nozzle to about sea level.
Well, it seems to me that a tape from 1979 may or may not carry enough fidelity to hear the crack. The Thrust SSC crack was hard to hear over much higher fidelity video and sound. The much smaller and more aerodynamic Bud Special may have created a sonic "boom" that could not be heard over the rocket motor and wind on a 1979 tape 40 years later.
As for the nozzle design, I expect it was correct for the car and altitude. These guys knew their business, and this was 10 years after the Blue Flame went 662 mph. I would think that an engineer with the actual nozzle in hand would be the only one able to tell us definitively if there was an issue with it.
Might have been good to have an aerial view of the event. The disturbance to surface just behind the vehicle nose and visible as line perpendicular to travel - as seen with SSC - would help the argument. Audible sound is tricky as a clue at low altitude. Someone at some distance should have heard a ‘whooping’ noise and crack…
But I cannot count it out, they may have done it. We are left with one of those, ‘did Mallory reach the summit of Everest?’ things.
wow! I've been watching some of your videos but this is the first time I've checked the comments. there are so many angry people here! Never would have guessed, considering how mellow your delivery is. people sure are upset about this record.
Lol - What record?
Nope, he didnt..
if he had, the data would have been shared to be confirmed by other.
- but since he didnt, the data is missing !
Never heard the sonic boom in the footage, to hear a sonic boom fast forward to 1997 with Thrust SSC (current record holder) and to see our own record (Great Britain) beaten fast forward to 2020 with bloodhound SSC.
They have just finished testing and managed 628mph IN TESTS!! and that was without the rocket engine.
sorry chaps, Great Britain were first to go super sonic on land and hopefully we'll keep that record for many years to come!
'whispers' "good luck trying"
ArcturanMegadonkey they have changed to be lsr instead of ssc now it’s changed ownership 😜 but yes when they fire up the rocket as well as the jet we we hopefully brake it
Erik Gilreath you been drinking 😂
@Erik Gilreath Meh, sound barrier on land...officer record holders the UK.
First to invent the jet engine too!
@@FreightLocos Could have knocked a year off WW2 if the silly bloody Poms had woken up and funded Whittle properly in the 30s when he was developing it. No hindsight required.
@@phildavenport4150 absolutely! We have Sir Frank Whittle a lot to be grateful for.
My brother called one morning in 1980, the Budweiser SOS rocket car was on our property. The car was being towed across country in a customized glider trailer. The tow vehicle had come in for a bit of unscheduled service. I hustled over and got an up close tour. Made my day.
Wouldn't you hear the sonic boom if you broke the sound barrier?
"Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom!" -Marvin the Martian
Very doubtfull .No boom , no sound barrier .
If you find out where the camera was positioned at in contrast to where the vehicle is at a 90° angle to the runway then you can calculate the speed.
Basically if this had broken the sound barrier you'd hear it.
dan taylor not necessarily
@@lvr1028 Yes necessarily, physics works like that
Back when Budweiser sponsored some really cool vehicles and boats!
If it did not, in fact, go supersonic, you can be sure it came damned close!
A nicely balanced story.
Thanks.
Burden of proof lies with the claimant. If you decide to disregard all established measurement rules of official land speed records, and then turn up with a bunch of inconclusive data, that's just your own damn fault then.
If there was no boom then this rocket-powered car did not reach the speed of sound! I never heard a boom in this video. Actually I never heard anything but talking in this video!
If they were wholly confident they would have released every bit of data to prove their case..
Nope. Brave attempt marred by the incompetence of those measuring the speed. If they could measure properly and given good data to the team they could have tweaked the car and maybe broke it after a few runs. Very frustrating.
Face it: If he had succeeded, the data would have been released. If there's no data. he didn't succeed. If they won't release the data, he failed. You can SAY he succeeded all you want. PROVE it or shut up.
It's a shame Hal didn't get his friends at Coors to sponsor the car, they could have called it The Silver Bullet ;)
Well if there's a question about the record, the car is sitting in a Motor Museum in Alabama, let's go get it and run it down the street one more time. 🤪
lol i went and touched it today!
What an awesome and spectacular achievement! Seeing that sidewinder light up, sent chills.
“why do you drink Budweiser.”
“CUZ ITS ON A ROCKET CAR!!!!!!”
“oh.”
Looks like a similar design to that of the blue flame!
17 m/s. I can beat that speed on my bike. Just in one direction (down hill), but that’s the way they run their car, too.
Badly set up speed traps, sensor not meant to integrate their values, a messed up radar and some post-hoc data wrangling, and the opinion of one test pilot. Not good enough.
The letter from the USAF was signed by Pete Knight, who was an X-15 pilot and exceeded 4500 mph during one such flight.
Sonic boom, zero. Not faster than sound.
@Straight Shooter lmao your so write hi 5
@Straight Shooter The only idiot here is you.
The footage showing Thrust SSC breaking the sound barrier and producing sonic booms (yes, not one, but *two* booms were heard) is a well known *fact*. The same is most definitely *not* true with the Budweiser Rocket.
Deal with the reality that Great Britain broke the sound barrier on land first... and did it on American soil too.
It seems to me highly appropriate that the controversy that surrounds whether the Budweiser Rocket actual broke the speed of sound overshadows the project itself. It is, after all, an extremely bold claim, driven by commercial interests and was done without scrutiny by independent observers and a deficit of actual reliable data. That it's controversial is entirely down to decisions the team made over these matters.
The rest of it is interesting, but the status of the claim is surely paramount.
@@BenDecko2023 You seem to have the attention span of a mayfly given that you think 81 words is an excessive. Just go read something shorter.
Chuck Yeager is not an engineer and he never went to college. Just because you were the first pilot to break the sound barrier does not make you an expert on transonic speed measurement. Why would they not have fully instrumented the vehicle with both a nose-boom & tail mounted pitot-static system??
The engineer behind Yeager was Jack Ridley.
Why does not having gone to college automatically disqualify him from technical knowledge or valuable experienced-based intuition? I did go to fucking college, and I can tell you that I learned more from reading the textbooks beyond the assignment out of personal curiosity than I did with actual assigned work. But I guess old Chuck couldn't read, either, right? You have to have an institution charge you thousands of dollars for that privilege.
I did not hear a sonic boom in the video and why did they just not have a timed measured mile ? All sounds rather suspicious, more of a marketing stunt for Bud, me thinks. All previous land speed records going way back to the 1920's had measured miles ? therefore, Sadly the first car to have broken the Sound Barrier has to go to the Brits for Thrust SSC with Andy Green in 1997, they did it with a measured mile and in both directions and you can clearly hear the sonic boom in the video.
Because it was only ever intended as an _event._ The only thing they were interested in was going supersonic. But since there was no sonic bang hear, it's pretty clear they didn't, regardless of the opinions of Pete Knight and Chuck Yeager. Thrust SSC was a genuine supersonic run in both directions and was the first land vehicle to travel supersonic.
The video covers your questions Jamie.
Gee officer I was only going 38 mph.
Oh look, the team declared they broke the sound barrier, I'm shocked.
Not that there was any pressure from Budweiser for that particular result.
Budweiser: we have one condition for sponsorship, break the he sound barrier.